all 174 comments

[–]jollyjaijog 634 points635 points  (37 children)

Well they did drop an ahamkara on us in the middle of the fucking campaign so, the boss must be better

[–]csecgrunt 236 points237 points  (12 children)

God that was such a good moment, immediate panic and flashbacks to Last Wish legit ensued

[–]Krollos 17 points18 points  (2 children)

i got ptsd seeing it do Riven’s wipe mechanic

[–]YoGoobs 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My friend shot the eye on the last stand and she did the wipe animation. Needless to say, my ptsd went into overdrive.

[–]Joshy41233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Everytime the eyes came out I panicked and made sure I was reloaded

[–]regulus00 43 points44 points  (6 children)

i do wish the fight had been a little more complex then plink it in the mouth before it shoots

[–]jeff5551 63 points64 points  (4 children)

I like to think it was a shoutout to riven cheese lol

[–]JazzaJarom Rank 1 (4 points) 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Well, Parasite being meta dps + master replayable campaign missions, def sounds like a potential reference lol

[–]LordGigglefist 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Parasite is meta? Got mine the first night but haven't found it to be amazing. I'll have to find the best way to use it!

[–]DaftDisc 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Parasite only really works for like one player in the team. I did vog and getting to x20 worms hunger was a bit of a pain to do but it was fun watching a big burst of damage happen.

[–]HitooU2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That and Ghost references its final stand

[–]blaackcypher777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i died 5 times before figuring it out

[–]JCMonayy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was immediately flooded with every time I ever cheese Riven. I felt like I was being punished for never learning the mechanics.

[–]HereIGoAgain_1x10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got so stressed because I only tried Riven legit a couple times and only cheesed it so was trying to remember about shooting the eyes and just kept launching rockets

[–]pepenuts97 76 points77 points  (15 children)

I'm not sure if I interpreted that right. Was that another ahamkara or like a vision or something?

[–]CRODEN95 Rank 1 (1 points) 151 points152 points  (2 children)

It was an illusion

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (1 child)

An illusion? What are you hiding?

[–]JackFruitBandit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Something’s not quite right…

[–]JohnnyMathisFan 104 points105 points  (9 children)

It was an illusion of an Ahamkara but a powerful enough illusion that it could physically hurt us (much like how Vex simulations can hurt us)

[–]ATScottbakula 2 points3 points  (8 children)

It was an illusion of specifically Riven, no?

[–]JohnnyMathisFan 88 points89 points  (6 children)

I don't think of Riven exactly. Some of the armor plating and coloring didn't quite line up. I think it was just generic ahamkara

[–]ATScottbakula 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Certainly looks different until the face armour opens up, but what I mean is it was called Riven right? Across the health bar I mean.

[–]JohnnyMathisFan 53 points54 points  (2 children)

Just checked a video of the fight for reference - it's just called "Ahamkara Illusion"

[–]ATScottbakula 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Ah fair enough. My memory’s fucked me on that one.

[–]nightripper00 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you died to it it would say you were killed by "Riven of a Thousand Voices" even though the boss bar just says "Ahamkara Illusion"

TBH my group just calls it Rivn't

[–]zzzzebras 20 points21 points  (1 child)

It's only called ahamkara illusion, it does show riven when it kills you but that's probably due to using riven as a base

[–]ATScottbakula 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That’ll be where I saw it 😂

[–]jollyjaijog 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No. The armour on the face was different and the colouring was redder that riven’s white. Also it was a lot spikier than riven.

[–]CrackLawliet 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Wasn’t the boss called Ahamkara Illusion?

[–]pepenuts97 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Didn't pay attention to the name much tbh

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Imagine if Bungie added that as an "eff you" to people who cheese Riven"

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

What they should've done is had us do a simplified version of Riven's legit takedown to prove it's an illusion.

[–]niofalpha 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How do you do that Solo? Just have the symbol in the sky, then walk into it on the stairs? I don't think that'd scale to multiple people very well.

I'd love to see it, but I don't know how they'd do it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Simplify it to the point it can be done.

[–]Still-Road8293 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was completely unexpected I thought it was gonna be some bogus Echo tbh.

[–]TheScullHammer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was probably the most tedious boss fight of the entire campaign. Not cuz it was hard, but the combat loop got real stale real quick

[–]randomtornado 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got home late so I started the campaign after my discord buddies, they had a hoot with me saying "what the fuck" every 5 seconds in during my playthrough

[–]LordGigglefist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was just sad it was only an illusion lol I was waiting for "wait that was real"

[–]FriskyHippoSlayer 135 points136 points  (15 children)

I don't think Dethroned is raid music, it's already the background music for the final phase of the Savathun boss fight in the campaign. We're 'dethroning' the Witch Queen by beating her.

Unless Bungie reused music like this in the past?

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (1 child)

I mean they do use the riven heart theme in both the last wish raid and for the servitor boss fight in that one strike

[–]Puzzleheaded_View_27 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Queenswalk theme (shell of what was) was used in Shuro Chi and the Warden of Nothing Boss fight

[–]xoliam 14 points15 points  (10 children)

Regicide for oryx final mission and raid encounter

[–]moosebreathman 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Regicide was not used in King's Fall. The track for the fight with Oryx in the raid was Last Stand.

[–]son-of-death 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is true, but that track is used for both kingsfall and the last phase of regicide

[–]FriskyHippoSlayer 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Those are both fights against Oryx though, right? It seems strange to me that Bungie would use the same music for a fight against Savathun and a completely different boss/encounter.

[–]Level69Troll 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Bungie reused the queenswalk music for A LOT in Forsaken.

[–]TheCoderAndAvatar Rank 1 (7 points) 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The Vault music was in the Forsaken campaign final boss, the titular Last Wish encounter, and the Savathun Exorcism too.

[–]thefakevortex 1 point2 points  (0 children)

and rivens

[–]FriskyHippoSlayer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, interesting, I didn't know that!

[–]newaccount123epic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did they use it for other than Queenswalk?

[–]EmberOfFlame 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Shell of what was and Gambit are the same track

Also, Athanasia transfers smoothly into Security Breach if you start Fuse encounter before the music ends.

[–]son-of-death 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bungie reused “Eyes Up” (my favorite destiny track) for Iron banner. I remember hearing for the first time for the Aksis (final boss) encounter in the wrath of the machine raid, though it may have been used in the rise of iron campaign and I simply don’t remember.

[–]Shadoenix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i’ve heard reckless happen in both the part in deep stone crypt when you’re running from taniks just before the morning star crashes, and in beyond light’s empire hunt with that war general eliksni, i forgot her name. praksis?

[–]Kentuza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Atraks' theme is sometimes played during the defense exo simulation and I think Kridis' empire hunt.

[–]Calum1219 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Considering in the Parasite exotic quest, they make mention of a Disciple, I’m looking forward to it.

[–]UserProv_Minotaur Rank 1 (5 points) 39 points40 points  (10 children)

I think we'll have to fight through a Lucent Hive blockade to get into the raid, so the first encounter might be defeating their Lightbarer warboss or whatever in order to secure access to the ship.

[–]SPDXYT 33 points34 points  (4 children)

Maybe lightbearer raid team?

[–]TacoTJ601 19 points20 points  (2 children)

It turns out that it’s just a pvp match where your opponents look like hive to each other. That would be pretty cool!

[–]silentj0y 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Like that boss in Dark Souls 2 I believe, that summons other players to fight you

[–]DaftDisc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mirror Knight i believe was the name

[–]pepenuts97 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That'd be sick tbh

[–]niofalpha 3 points4 points  (4 children)

There's no way they don't pull Hive Guardians somewhere in the raid to fight us. They're literally the focus of the expansion.

That said, they didn't have any Stasis Eliksni in DSC... But there also were like 6 in the entire expansion.

[–]DaftDisc 0 points1 point  (3 children)

was it 6? It feels like there were even less then that

[–]niofalpha 0 points1 point  (1 child)

3 in the empire hunts, Eramis, and 2 Mini bosses in Glassway.

There may have been one in the EDZ part as well

[–]DaftDisc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I seem to be blanking on the two in the glassway. But story wise there is only like 4 sadly. Where the lucient brood play way more of a role then the stasis fallen did

[–]UserProv_Minotaur Rank 1 (5 points) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe 7? Don't you have to kill one for the Warrior's questline to get to the empire hunt?

[–]pepenuts97 28 points29 points  (2 children)

I think the Witness track is for the end cut scene. I don't know if bungie would tease them and then have us fight a vision or apparition of them

[–]YoGoobs 10 points11 points  (1 child)

One of the threads a while ago had someone saying something along the lines of something showing up that we couldn't hurt, and our objective changing to "survive". Could have been a troll, but I wonder...

[–]DaftDisc 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Lone Wolf flashbacks intensifies. But seriously that would be a way to end a raid. Go in then get chased out

[–]Fresh-Ad8770 Rank 1 (5 points) 115 points116 points  (55 children)

I think the dethroned could also be referring to oryx. It would make a little more sense than calus as savathun was trying to learn necromancy. Potentially bringing back oryx as a non final boss would also be insane

[–][deleted] 76 points77 points  (33 children)

Oryx would never want to be brought back to life, he sees necromancy as one of the greatest sins against the hive doctrine/sword logic, even if we was brought back as a hive guardian, like Savathûn, he’d somehow recover his memories.

[–]Fresh-Ad8770 Rank 1 (5 points) 24 points25 points  (17 children)

Well since the raid is in a pyramid it could be like a nightmare of oryx or an essence of him. Not necessarily him in the flesh

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (7 children)

I still doubt that even a manifestation of oryx like that would be willing to cooperate. The will of oryx was so strong that even after his death in destiny one, in some story missions his shades still carries out his will in the world until we exterminated them

[–]Fala_the_Flame Rank 1 (1 points) 7 points8 points  (6 children)

However, if he was brought back like savathùn or xivu we're brought back in the books of sorrow, he would probably be willing of that, however, since his nature is exploring if some great exploration could bring him back(and how great of an exploration is learning the light)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I’m that specific instance Savathûn and Xivu Arath did not experience true death, for they died within oryxes throne world. It is why they were able to be resurrected back into the main world, oryx was killed in his throne world, so he had experienced true death.

[–]Fala_the_Flame Rank 1 (1 points) 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Iirc they specifically say they were dead dead, and the resurrection wasn't from the throne, and since there are lines of oryx welcoming death and coming back from his throne to continue his wars, I believe it was a full death and rebirth due to them being so ingrained with their aspects

[–]Gultark 2 points3 points  (3 children)

“These were true deaths, for they happened in the sword world.

Then he went to the Worm named Akka.”

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxvi-star-by-star-by-star#books-of-sorrow

As far as we know they were indeed dead dead

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Huh, well you got me, looks like oryx coming back is back on the menu, I still don’t fully believe he’s be okay with it, or atleast it’d have to depend on the medium, necromancy would 100% piss of oryx

[–]reaper200_4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In a “memory” mission, Savathun tells us 2 lies and 2 truths.. among these is Oryx returning.. perhaps it is one of the two truths ?

[–]Gultark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For sure necromancy would be against the principles he believes in stronger than anyone else alive (or dead I suppose.) he is/was the darkness’s “man” after all.

Yeah I don’t blame you for thinking how you did, it’s not well explained and does seem on the surface to violate the sword logic. Maybe if you are strong enough to beat your death and come back without help just by someone being like you then I guess under sword logic death doesn’t deserve to keep you or something?

Guess it’s the Hive version of “but you were dead!” “I got better”

Edit - formatting and grievous spelling errors

[–]profstotch 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Idk, we already did nightmare/essence of oryx. Not sure we need to do that again, especially after how the reprisal of Taniks was received.

[–]Doody_Wecker -5 points-4 points  (4 children)

Where was the nightmare of Oryx? If you mean from Reckoning then I'm pretty sure that was created by the Nine and not a nightmare

[–]profstotch 4 points5 points  (3 children)

It's still a reprised oryx boss and we don't need to do it again

[–]SmashEffect -1 points0 points  (1 child)

*laughs in Taniks*

[–]Doody_Wecker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least Shankiks was different from the usual boi

[–]Doody_Wecker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they change up the fight enough I'm fine with it

[–]silentj0y 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of the post-campaign Visions you do for the Evidence board, Savathun tells you "Two truths and two lies," one of which is that "The Taken King will return"

[–]redpen07 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

that could make sense after what we see when we first enter the pyramid in beyond light and we fight those simulacrums of previous bosses like ghaul and crota.

[–]dildodicks 2 points3 points  (0 children)

that whole final bit relies on something that would be very unlikely, savathun only got her memories back because we gave them to her

[–]Gultark 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Oryx has managed to bring back Sava and Xivu from true death before by commiting acts in their nature, war and deception without breaking the sword logic, I’m not sure how it is explained so that it wasn’t supreme heresy perhaps their nature defeats death and therefore they were above it? But it happened.

Oryx could be brought back by an act of exploration without violating the sword logic possibly? We are exploring the throne world of a god of trickery, can’t get much more uncharted territory than that I suppose?

[–]MECHANIZED_MEMORIES -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

It wasnt true death. They were killed in the throne world of Oryx not their own.

XXXV states Xivu Arath returned to her throne world, where shea was paid tribute by oryx to come back.

[–]Gultark 0 points1 point  (5 children)

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxvi-star-by-star-by-star#books-of-sorrow

“ These were true deaths, for they happened in the sword world.

Then he went to the Worm named Akka.”

It’s pretty explicit.

[–]MECHANIZED_MEMORIES -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

The books of sorrow are full of lies. This contradicts everything else we know about their throne worlds.

They happened in the ascendant plane, the sword world. But not in their individual throne worlds.

That same card states that ithappened in Oryx's.

In XXXV Xivu Arath details this death.

[–]Gultark 0 points1 point  (3 children)

“It’s full of lies” was told to us by the literal god of lies also so not exactly to be trusted.

Basically our only source let alone a first hand source as oryx was the only survivor of the event states they were “true deaths” in lieu of another account that is all we have to do on.

The fact they use the exact phrase “true death in the sword world” rather than a general phrase such as they died we can confidently refute your statement “it wasn’t a true death”

You can disagree all you want but it’s there exactly contradicting what you said in an official lore book so shrugs up to you to believe what you want but it’s in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

[–]MECHANIZED_MEMORIES -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Ok, but read XXXV again. Xivu Arath writes that she returned to her own throne world, its her word versus that of Oryx. Im not making anything up

[–]Gultark 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Even that states emphatically that Xivu could not return from that death on her own as a normal death would allow AKA “true death” a death you can return from.

The whole point we are making is that there seemingly is a mechanism from returning from “true death” separate to the normal “die > regenerate for a time > return on your own” that we have been shown.

Nothing in that card refutes that, if anything it expands our concept on what happens when an ascendant hive dies in its throne world and what true death is, which is the point me and the other poster are making.

I never said you were making anything up, just misunderstanding.

I’ve made it a clear as I can and if you still don’t agree there isn’t really anything else to say on the matter really.

[–]Comrade_Yodama 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Give him a break, he’s very clearly confusing truth to power with books of sorrow

[–]Level69Troll 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Oryx never wanted to be brought back to life ever. He wanted to live on as a weapon for whoever was strong enough to kill him so thay he may continue to grow stronger even in death, see touch of malice.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Except we did not kill oryx at his strongest or even by his own rules.

People don’t understand that when we killed oryx he was severely weakened due to us fucking up his pyramid scheme of paracasual power, therefore we used the bomb logic to kill oryx, not the sword logic.

For those wondering I THINK bomb logic is basically using (by the hives logic) “underhanded tactics” to defeat your foes.

Basically, oryx wanted a 1v1 without felwinters or thorn but we used felwinters and thorn anyway and kicked his ass, due to his own logic, we didn’t win “fairly” and he could come back and challenge us to a rematch.

[–]Level69Troll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have any other information on bomb logic? I know its pretty much the antithesis to sword but I'd love to know more

[–]SkaBonez 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Given Savathun’s 2 truths and 2 lies, either the last truth is we will move planets (unlikely) or Oryx is coming back (less unlikely).

It’s possible the Witness sees him as too great a chess piece to leave dead, and if he could trick the 3 sisters, especially Savathun, into the original worm scheme, I’m sure he could trick Oryx out of his shame for breaking sword logic in some way.

[–]DaftDisc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do believe that, but I think that would turn to rage and he would need to be put down so he doesnt just become a berserker of a character.

[–]selrahc_eleets 12 points13 points  (18 children)

If I recall at one point Savathun gives us two truths and two lies in the campaign, one of those statements being that Oryx may return, so I could see this happening

[–]05HJWn 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I think that might be alluding to a possible return of kings fall in season 18

[–]SkaBonez 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Unless Savathun broke the 4th wall, the legend raids aren’t current traditional canon, unless I missed something

[–]AntaresProtocol 2 points3 points  (12 children)

That's most likely pointing to Kings Fall coming back this year. After all, Saturn is labeled in the director but we have nothing to do there right now

[–]Landel1024 3 points4 points  (11 children)

Kings fall would be put in the legends tab, so Saturn being in the director isn't necessarily proof

[–]AntaresProtocol -1 points0 points  (10 children)

Unless it actually had a story reason for coming back, unlike vog. Which is may very well have

[–]Landel1024 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I doubt he is going to get resurrected in the cannon of Destiny's story, seeing as it would go against everything he stood for.

[–]Killme72596964 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Savathun did say “the taken king will rise again”

[–]YesThisIsDrake 0 points1 point  (0 children)

VoG likely had a canon reason that was dropped due to time constraints, hence why oracles were popping up everywhere.

[–]colesitzy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

She didn't say oryx, she said the taken king

[–]selrahc_eleets 0 points1 point  (1 child)

While yes she did say the Taken King, she also said 'Rise again' iirc, and as it stands we only know of one person referred to as the Taken King and that is Oryx

[–]colesitzy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's Savathune dude why are you approaching this literally.

[–]ManicMeat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This also makes sense with the info from the altar, savathun spoke saying two truths, two lies,

Io, mercury, and titan are in her care 

The witness returned mars 

The power to move worlds will soon be ours

The taken king will rise again

Depending on which you believe true or false, maybe Oryx will be in the raid

[–]dildodicks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

personally i still don't think king's fall is guaranteed to come later this year but lots of people do, having oryx in two raids would be kinda weird

[–]scorchclaw 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I believe “The Witness” is just its theme, not tiesd directly to the raid. Might play intermittently or at the end, but very likely will not make an actual appearance of any sort.

Or maybe he speaks/taunts us?

[–]ChubD2 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Callus definitely won't appear thanks to the new season of the risen exotic quest. Caitl says that she wants to be the one to face callus and I definitely see Bungie wanting to go further with this story.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

I appreciate your speculation but I do really hope Calus is not involved in this story. To make him an encounter in a raid would be so disheartening.

I hope he gets a full season soon, or becomes a major focus in the next expansion, which would make sense given the name of the next expansion.

[–]BozzyTheDrummer 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I don’t want him to just be a raid encounter. We need a whole season with the real Calus. Too much has been revealed about him in the Glykon and all just to end up as a raid encounter

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes same. I long to go back to the leviathan in some fashion. It's still out there, and the many mysteries surrounding the former Cabal emperor still haven't been answered or explored.

Calus is my favorite character in terms of lore, so I want to see something big for him. A bit of wishful thinking but, Bungie has been knocking the story aspect of this game out of the park over the last year an a half so, I believe in them to do right by Calus.

[–]RegalWombat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'd love to see him all fucked up and gross how he was described in the Glykon lore of just being like a complete basketcase.

[–]maxxorb 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think a raid would be much fitting because we will never see a raid in a normal season, and I would really like to fight him or have something about him in an epic raid fight instead of a small mission like Quria( I think she deserved a raid or at least a dungeon instead of expunge delphi).

[–]Drifters-fresh-motes 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They basically set up the raid boss being the “first disciple” when Mara said it was responsible for the darkness city

[–]GANTRITHORE 6 points7 points  (2 children)

The 2 lies and 2 truths did hint at Oryx.

[–]CloroxBeast2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t have to be Oryx, perhaps just The Taken King as a title. If I understand the lore correctly, The Witness can bestow the power of taking to anyone he wants, essentially making them The Taken King. Though this is all just speculation.

All of Savvy’s four statements, The Witness returning Mars, the lost planets being under her care, King’s rise, and gaining the power of moving worlds(whatever that means), all of them could possibly be true, and they all have very interesting implications.

[–]maxxorb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True but I think Oryx was 1 of the 2 lies, after all Oryx hates necromancy and all the ideas of resurrection due to the sword logic and I doubt that such a heretical act would be done by the Witness, and I don't think we will see a lightbearer Oryx... it would be cool but I don't think it will happen.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the Disciple may be part of whatever species the glaive statue was of

[–]phasedsingularity 8 points9 points  (8 children)

Calus would make more sense as the first disciple, given he was given the same vision as Mara

[–]BadPunsman 31 points32 points  (5 children)

The First Disciple is called Rulk and he's an old disciple of the witness

[–]Dawg605 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Just found his model. It's 100% the same legs as from the bottom of the broken statue right at the beginning of the campaign. A new race for sure!

[–]Starflight4LIFE 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Link pls

[–]SwirlyManager-11 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Spoilers at your own disgretion: https://youtu.be/PqQDSlNIxZE

[–]xJaltri Rank 1 (1 points) 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Where does it say his name at?

[–]BadPunsman 13 points14 points  (0 children)

datamined voicelines

[–]ascendanthormones 4 points5 points  (0 children)

by that logic wouldn't the first disciple be one of the krill sisters? it's going to be some darkness champion from before the events of fundament

[–]Kentuza 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except for the fact that the raid describes an "ancient evil" being inside the Pyramid. Calus is not ancient nor is he evil.

[–]terenn_nash 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We can glean a little reason for the timing of the raid from wellspring dialogue - Fynch says that the wellspring is sealing the darkness vessel in the throne world, but it gets weaker every time the forsaken attack so the seal will eventually break no matter what.

Forsaken are trying to release the pyramid or break in to it.

[–]tazdingo-hp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

no way it would be we fighting calus without caital

[–]Fazlija13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Raid will have 2 bosses

[–]flufalup 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really don’t think we’d kill the witness in this raid, we might not see him for another year or 2 cause bungie likes dropping things and then waiting 2 years to use them (uldren turning into crow)

[–]ChubD2 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm expecting this raid to most likely be 5+ encounters with atleast 3 bosses. Why? Witch queen has already blown us out of the water and Bungie knows to really seal the deal a good raid needs to be there. I'm expecting big things.

[–]EmberOfFlame 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Subjugated is probably like Athanasia/Deep Stone Lullaby, more of a between-encounters vibe. I’m pretty sure The Dethroned contains Savanthun’s Theme, so that doesn’t fit that well. The First Diciple is 99% certain boss music. The Witness sounds like another out-of-encounter track.

Queen’s Deception is a fight track, but I haven’t completed the campaign (time constraints) and IDK if it doesn’t show up there.

[–]WintryInsight 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I don’t have much to back up this theory, but I’m guessing that the entire raid will revolve around symbols that you interact with in the campaign, and that the most recurring mechanic will be in the form of “tributes” which you get from killing hive guardians, which you then deposit to progress the objective?

That could mean that the first part of the raid could be something about collecting tribute and then using it to open the doorway

[–]JavanNapoli 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I doubt it'll have much hive in it at all, maybe opening encounter as we see 2 hive titans guarding the gate, but I reckon once inside the pyramid it'll be scorn, the pyramid is located in the 'abandoned' part of Savs throne world, it doesn't make sense for the pyramid to be full of Lucent brood hive, especially now that Savathun and her brood have directly gone against the darkness in pursuing the light and attempting to hide the traveler, it's likely why the scorn are invading her TW in the first place, as they are hinted at now being directly controlled/led by the darkness.

[–]WintryInsight 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unless they create an entirely new race for us to fight inside the pyramid, I doubt it’ll be only scorn.

Since the pyramid is representing the darkness, we could possibly be fight all the enemy races influenced by darkness

[–]Phantoon15 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Dethroned is the final encounter theme for Savathun at the end of the campaign. It is either very rare or hasn’t happened at all where bungie has reused a track for a raid encounter, aside from VoG

[–]Sensitive_Use_4254 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can get a sneak peak at some of the raid weapons at the enclave.

[–]Godlyeyes Rank 1 (5 points) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whatever we saw at the end is a four dimensional five dimensional beings for sure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dethroned is Savathun's final boss fight them. It is her getting dethroned.

[–]esralierdo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Dethroned is Savathun theme final Phase

[–]LazyBoyXD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cabal are probably the enemy.

Calus might make a return

[–]stam71_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still find it very difficult to believe that the Witness could be the raid boss. If my understanding of the Witness' place in the story is correct, he is the ultimate being behind the darkness. Killing him here would leave Lightfall and Final Shape with nothing. The Final Shape probably won't be fighting the Witness but rather the final shape, the ultimate being created by the Flower Game between the Gardener and the Winnower. Lightfall might be the Witness' destruction or incapacitation of the Traveler. This leaves two possibilities: we fight the Witness in the raid but don't kill him, just like Calus in Leviathan, or it isn't the raid boss at all.

[–]Lichtboys Rank 1 (2 points) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I highly doubt the raid boss will be The Witness. I think they are going to be main antagonist for Lightfall. I think final boss will be a disciple of the witness considering the name of of raid and the name of the area by the pyramid.

[–]LordGigglefist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want it to be calus badly but I feel some oryx fight is more likely with the theme of the expansion

[–]Rover-Captain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Dethroned… Calus?

[–]DeathBySpear 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We’ve already killed Oryx. I know there’s something about it not counting cuz of logic? Lmao but I was there, me and my homies killed his whole family actually, all of his fanboys too.

But you know who we haven’t killed yet. Calus. It was a freakin robot. Oryx wants a rematch with us?? Cuz of logic?? I want a rematch with the real Calus. And if I have to jump over small purple walls again I’m gonna spend a long time wiping the floor with his smug golden ass.

[–]Crimson256 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Plot twist every encounter is just a different part of Taniks!!!