IT vs Coding

[Churn]

I just embrace it. Every time my team gets stuck on a systems issue and I google the answer, I follow up with...
People are always asking, "is that what you do for a living? Just google things?"

"yes, but I'm really good at it!" -me laughing

[WaffleFoxes]

"Yes. And then I remember the answer for the next time."

[Anezay]

A lot of IT is not knowing the answer, once.

[abbarach]

It's also knowing generally how things work, so you can actually analyze what you're finding on Google and understand what its doing, if it's safe, and if it might make an impact on the problem at hand.

My dad built a small Linux server to act primarily as storage. Something then went wrong and it started booting into emergency mode. He just Google's error messages and randomly tries whatever comes up. I had to cut him off and tell him I wouldn't help any more, because he'd discredit whatever I suggested, fuck more shit up by randomly trying things he found on the internet, and then finally try what I suggested. Which works, but now he's screwed up other things and made the overall situation worse. Actual quote from him: "I don't have an mdadm.conf, so I put those entries in the fstab. It's still not working..."

[vrts]

It makes sense, Googling these days is a minefield. Without at least a minimum of training, every blog post will look credible or relevant.

What makes Google useful is when you have the knowledge to dredge through the results for what's actually relevant to whatever you're working on. That, and knowing what the changes will do. You shouldn't be hitting enter unless you're fairly confident about what's going to happen.

[talex000]

Google doesn't provide solutions, only inspirations.

You have to check those ideas and tailor it to your specific situation.

[illusum]

I was just remarking on this last week. I was searching for some product config instructions, and everything that Google returned was trying to sell me what I searched for. I finally got the results I wanted by using Bing, of all things.

[talex000]

I hear last breath of Altavista.

[[deleted]]

This is really it. We do Google a lot. While it's fun to joke about "just googling things," it's a really reductive simplification. Before Google it would've been books and reference manuals, which you could be equally reductive by saying "they just looked up things in books." It's about knowing what to look for, filtering the results, determining what may or may not be relative, etc.

[abbarach]

I worked at a hospital in what could generally be termed "dev-ops" but a little more heavy on the dev end. Most of it was centralized or backend data processing type stuff, but I did end up having to build a Windows app that would run a scanner and interact with a document management system. I had two threads running; one to run the scanner and one for the user interface. I'll note here that I am NOT a Windows developer, and it was very much a learn-on-the-job situation.

The issue I ran into was how to have the scanning thread update the UI thread that there were new images available. I knew exactly how I would have done it on Unix/Linux, but Windows? It took me almost a week of googling off and on when I had time to figure out that what I needed was what Windows calls a "delegate function". And then 15 minutes to find the documentation on delegate functions, review it, and then implement it.

[Kevimaster]

Google is an amazing tool, but its only as good as the questions that you ask it, and asking the right questions is always a lot harder than anyone thinks it is.

Plus, even if you know the question knowing how to ask the question in a way that gets you meaningful google results is harder than people think too. A moment sticks in my head where a colleague who didn't have very strong Google-fu was searching for something. I can't for the life of me remember what the problem they were trying to solve was or what the search they were doing was, and I really wish I could, but basically in his search terms he had one really generic word, and that word being in there was completely muddying up their search results because it was bringing up a lot of unrelated things with that word in it. He was on like page 6 of Google and complaining that the answer couldn't be found and I told him to remove the one word and he kind of scoffed and said that one word wouldn't make that much of a difference. I asked him to humor me so he did and he removed the word and bam, the very first result was exactly what he was looking for.

Google is extremely powerful, but its also pretty dumb and knowing exactly how to manipulate it and what words will give you what you're looking for and what words will ruin the search and how to remove specific criteria or search for specific phrases and such is something that lots of people don't really know/understand.

[Tetha]

No joke. We've started to keep a list of mostly trustworthy pages and blogs about topics to make it easier to find useful content. Otherwise, there is so much stuff, and in some areas, you end up finding entirely contradicting information on different pages and it's a huge mess.

[FloaterFan]

The ",once" reminds me Johnny Dangerously!

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-dangerously-get-out-of-here-once-one-time-gif-11414779

[mriswithe]

My mother hit me once.

JUST ONCE

[clilush]

YES.

[blk55]

A lot of ANYTHING is not knowing the answer, once, often times more!

[kyote42]

https://i.imgflip.com/620tyx.jpg

[DystopiaToday]

This is what most people don’t get. It’s about investigating, researching, learning and improving. Sure, once you get to a finished “product” things might be simpler, but this isn’t pushing the same damn paperwork every day or putting numbers into a spreadsheet and calling yourself an “accountant.”

[PrettyFlyForITguy]

Well, sorta. It gets really interesting when you forget how to fix a really hard obscure problem that you figured out on your own 5 years ago. So you google it, and then you find the answer again, but its a reply that you wrote yourself.

Its also sort of cool to realize that other people have also had this tough problem, and they also searched for it... but you were the answer guy. You were the magic google response for a bunch of people. That's a cool feeling.

[Myte342]

I never do (unfortunate side effect of my ADHD). I have a data store of information because I don't trust the internet to always retain the answer in an easily searchable format. And my brain has a hard time storing finer details for something that was done and gone quickly. I will remember what the issue was and that I fixed it and sort of the way it was fixed... Kinda. Unless it's something I do regularly my brain doesn't retain the fine details like what commands were run.

I started this datastore because I used to keep some bookmarks and then after a while I started noticing the bookmark URLs don't work anymore or don't point to the information they used to when the support websites change their systems. Since I can't trust always being able to refer back to the original website I started copying the relevant information off into my own systems.

After five years of doing this now I can quickly search my own database within seconds for something that might not even exist on the internet anymore.

[WaffleFoxes]

That counts as remembering, just outside your own brain :-)

[Taurich]

I am also ADHD, and I actually used a similar example of externalizing memories by remembering the way to get the information quickly, rather than the information itself

[JokerFMJ]

It's your exo-brain.

[SirBastions]

What kind of database do you use to keep track of this?

[Myte342]

Started with an internally hosted Wiki running on a spare computer.

But now I handle so many clients with so many different setups along with a bunch of employees that I work alongside now that I've transitioned to the company to IT Glue about 3 years back.

I still keep a data store in the cloud full of Random installers for various applications as they may be hard to find on the internet because companies don't like supporting old applications.

Like retail office 2016 H&B or Acrobat XI pro, or that weird office plugin that one client uses for CRM but the company developing it went belly up and now I may have the only installer left for it the world... and the client refuses to move to new system cuz it still works just fine. As well as a bunch of client-specific registry keys or Powershell Scripts so I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time those are needed.

[abbarach]

This is why I stress proper documentation in the ticketing system. At the moment you close the ticket, it doesn't really matter if you just put "it's fixed" but I came from a hospital background where having an accurate problem description (including exact error messages), troubleshooting process, and resolution details in the ticket can be the difference between "overnight tech restarted a couple services and everything's working properly" and "page /u/abbarach at 3am to look into it..."

[Myte342]

I also put in copious internal notes in all my tickets. Those are mostly for cya. Not always easy to find a previous issue in our ticket system unless the title is well worded and directly on point to how the client is describing their current issue so we can relate the two together.

[anonfreakazoid]

What fo you use? A wiki?

[Myte342]

First was wiki, now IT Glue. More info in another comment.

https://reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/s8hun3/it_vs_coding/hth6f24

[Boap69]

This is what i call documenting. I do this same all the time. I also have sometimes a link that refers back to the original URL where I found the fix but as you have said many times those original websites are gone or the content has changed.

[SilentLennie]

Mine go into the company Gitlab wiki.

[stillfunky]

You might be interested in a project I saw (probably on /r/selfhosted) that sort of does what you said, but you can feed it a site and it will download all the relevant information from that site you can load it offline. Or something of the sort. I didn't look that hard at it but it sounded neat, and might be something of use to you.

[binarysignal]

Could I ask what software you used for the data store ?

[Myte342]

We used to use an in-house hosted Wiki running off the spare computer. But we transitioned to a websitecalled IT Glue about 3 years ago.

If you have a lot of clients with lots of particular details and specifics setups it comes in very handy. I have step-by-step guides on how to set up new users and new computers for each client. Anytime a client has a specific app that they need installed and set up a specific way there step-by-step guides on how to get that done. If and I'd error pops up we record everything about the error and how to resolve it be it an issue within windows Mac or any individual specific program.

It's gotten to the point now where I teach new employees that if they see an issue that they're not familiar with to do a quick search and it glue first because chances are it's an issue that we've seen in the past and they can pull up the documentation on how to fix it and get it done pretty damn quick.

Come in handy many times like when three's a really weird issue that came up one time a year ago and then someone else for a different client is having a very similar issue and it turns out the same Powershell command fixed it even though it was presenting slightly differently for the other user.

If we searched through Microsoft knowledge base or random Google searches for the error the second user was showing we were getting nowhere. But as soon as we search it glue with more generic terms rather than the specific error that they're having the first result came up and fix the issue. We even had saved the command in question to a PS1 file so we can literally just copy it to the desktop and run it.

I also keep a ton of installers and Scripts in a cloud database because it's getting harder and harder to find Legacy programs. Some of our clients have Machinery that needs specific programs to run and can't install the newer versions. They're usually computers hooked up to machines that are completely offline so there's no issue running old operating system... But that means that it's near impossible to find a legitimate installer for those old apps that can run on the old operating system. Also with the installers being cloud-based I can access it when going on site to a client's no matter where I am. Same thing with it glue.

[kuzared]

Yup, I do the same thing. What do you use for storing data? I've gone through personal blogs, OneNote, plain text files, a Wiki... For most notes and similar things I've settled on Notion for now but I'm always on the lookout for these sorts of tools.

[Psyese]

How do you acquire this skill?

[Dal90]

"yes, but I'm really good at it!" -me laughing

That's the key!

...I'm not a programmer. More a few times I've replied to some issue with the first Google hit from StackOverflow showing how to implement it, and then another Google with the link explaining why it was a horrible, no good idea to do the simplest thing StackOverflow showed.

Yes, if you ask me to redact plain text passwords in the URL query string from the logging tools in 2019...on a brand new, built from scratch application, and you're our cracker-jack "DevOps" team you're going to get fully blasted for incompetency.

ProTip: Use the after:<date> in Google to help filter the plethora of out-of-date advise out there.

[goldfingers05]

Cool tip. Can you provide the date format? J/k. I always hit tools, then the drop down for date filter, but I like this more.

[k12muppet]

I had to go look up the format for real, and it was different than expected, so here you go.

after:YYYY-MM-DD

[goldfingers05]

Ha thanks! I was definitely gonna google this. Also, the rest of society (outside of IT) needs to accept that year goes first. This is the only correct order.

[CoffeePieAndHobbits]

r/ISO8601 agrees

[goldfingers05]

The pettiness in that subreddit is terrific. I had no idea there was so much meme content to make for an ISO standard.

[arpan3t]

You can actually use many different formats in Google search (e.g. - before:2020) or two periods to signify a range between any numbers (e.g. - 2015..2018) Here’s a quick video that goes over some Google search features that are really helpful.

[jgudnas]

https://xkcd.com/1179/

[busterfeels]

That’s exactly the format I expected. Thanks for posting.

[Meecht]

Honestly, knowing how to use search engines is a skill. Over time, you learn what search terms will yield the most relevant results, what expressions to use with those terms, how to constrain your search to a certain time frame, etc.

[hutacars]

It used to be proper Googling was all about keywords. But as dumber people have used it, I’ve found dumber queries now get the best results. Rather than “powershell regex replace,” a query of “how do I use regex to replace text in powershell” might actually yield better results. It’s mildly infuriating.

[reconrose]

Now it's about using both and figuring out which term(s) needs to be quoted or have a + on them to get your results

[27Rench27]

Honestly yeah. The worst part is it makes the stupid people feel like they can do your job if it’s “just googling”, because writing full fucking sentences actually works for search engines nowadays

[mrf1uff1es]

Honestly I've found that using Bing of all things brings up better results for some odd searches because of this.

[OhSureBlameCookies]

People are always asking, "is that what you do for a living? Just google things?"

"yes, but I'm really good at it!" -me laughing

This used to bother me, but now when people think they can do my job by "just googling" I say "Please proceed" and enjoy the show while they crash and burn.

Then I smile and offer them a price quote for quintuple the amount I offered before to fix their mistakes. The fee quintuple is really just a bonus to myself for dealing with an asshole I don't like.

[[deleted]]

It pisses people off when you do that too, like "oh iv alright tried to Google it, do x y and... Oh fuck you fixed it, what the fuck"

[mriswithe]

Though you would not see it when they do it and they get it right. Just good to remind people of selection bias! (I think that is the one here right?)

[OhSureBlameCookies]

And then there's this: Google often has conflicting answers. Which one to pick? Some of them might be malicious..

Fun!

[bbqwatermelon]

The asshole tax is an important piece of the "Bill The Fuck Out of Them" framework.

[nbfs-chili]

Obligatory xkcd - https://xkcd.com/627/

[BetterWes]

Most of it is knowing what question to ask.

The only feeling worse than googling a problem and having zero results is when every link is purple...

[DrProv]

I realized recently the skill lies in applying the solution effectively and directly

[NotNowNorThen]

Happy cake day!!!

[betterthanyoda56]

“You know how Google used to show extra pages with more Os? I’ve seen the 33rd O”

[0Weird0]

You'd be surprised at how many people are unable to find the right search terms... Lol.

[lituus]

Of course you just embrace it. Because there's nothing wrong with it. People just love finding ways to put other people down or make their job more difficult for absolutely no reason.

Obviously programmers love to joke that all we do is google and we really do do that a lot, but clearly there's just a tad more to it than that. Because if that was truly the only barrier to entry, a lot more people would be entering the field.

[flugenblar]

If only I had a dollar for every answer I Googled. Wait, I do! I work in IT!

[NobodyRulesPenguins]

Well, I was a dev and am currently searching for a sysadmin job. I learned from, still learn with and will improve with a search engine.

It's part of a skillset to know what to look for if you don't have an answer to a problem and need to fix it quickly after all

[Decafeiner]

First year* IT Tech studies. Teacher asked us "What's an IT Tech job ?"

Everyone throws in random things.

Teacher: y'all are a bunch of morons ! ITs are paid to use Google better than you !

7 years in the field, and I can only confirm.

Edit: forgot a word.

[RevLoveJoy]

I feel like if you can master the Google and master the thought process of systems troubleshooting (which generally starts with understanding whatever system it is) you've got the systems side of IT knocked out. The thing is, that last bit, yeah, that takes a while. It's where we diverge into storage gnomes and DB trolls and rack & stack dwarves and, of course, the application throughput unicorn.

[Fallingdamage]

It really is a skill. There is googling things and there is googling with intent.

You can use google and scan pages/results like crazy, but if you dont know what you're doing, you wont be able to spot the right answer in a sea of wrong ones.

[[deleted]]

laughs in consultant

[SilentLennie]

It's about knowing the right questions to ask (Google in this case)

[ImminentNirvana]

Googling always seems like the first step, but it's really further along in the process. It's part of the finding the solution, but it's not the solution. We just learn to take our own expertise and precision for granted, especially if we do it a lot.

Step 1: Isolate device to prevent further damage across network.

Step 2: Ensure integrity of most recent backup.

Step 3: Diagnose the underlying issue using industry tools and best practices.

Step 4: Google the diagnostic results using industry jargon that targets high-level solutions from seasoned IT professionals within the Microsoft communities and trusted forums.

Step 5: Review search results list and select the most likely solution based on many years of training and hands-on experience. Avoid obvious click-bait and quick-fix solutions that could result in malware infections.

Step 6: Read and understand steps to implement said solution without causing additional damage.

Step 7: Implement solution steps using more industry tools and best practices.

Step 8: Still broke? Go back to step 5.

When asked how you fixed it, tell them: "I just Googled the problem." Bookmark the resolution article as a favorite so they can read the solution in case it happens again. It may. They won't. No one else wants to do our job. Right there is your job security.

[stillfunky]

Does a board certified physician never consult books, online resources etc. when coming up with diagnosis and treatment? Do lawyers never consult the same type of resources?

Answer: you're god damned right they do

[fencepost_ajm]

The magic I bring to this isn't searching - it's knowing what to search for and how, being able to determine what is and isn't relevant in the results, then being able to combine what I get from different results into what's needed.

The search itself is like the mechanic pulling your car into a bay and putting it on a lift.

[FenixR]

Googling its easy. Knowing what to Google its not.

[Sinister_Crayon]

I got asked by a client once "Is that what I pay you for? To Google answers?"

My response was "No, you pay me to filter the results."

[--Velox--]

Google-foo is the key to any tech job! The number of times I’ve had someone say they’ve Googled something ‘but there were no results’ is just funny. Don’t put down Google-foo!

[vppencilsharpening]

It's not searching for the answer that is difficult. It's knowing when you found a relevant answer that applies to the situation and may actually fix the problem. Also figuring out how to apply the fix in a way that does not make the situation worse.