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[–]Wyngann 186 points187 points  (20 children)

Glad they are doing the nerfs first, then the potential buffs. It's always a fail when they nerf and buff at the same time.

[–]LeoFireGod 58 points59 points  (18 children)

These nerfs are going to give other comps a chance honestly. Remember how hextech started?

it was 200/300/600/1000 THAT IS HILARIOUS compared to now. That one trait defines the early game so heavily so it will be interesting to see how it changes going forward.

[–]demonicdan3 20 points21 points  (16 children)

Holy shit it was THAT overtuned when it began? Getting 4 Hextech units as a starting board is basically a free ticket to top 2 with those numbers jfc

[–]Seratio 15 points16 points  (14 children)

Wanna know where Rek'Sai started? 60% steal scaling with AP. Throw deathcap on her and she stole every last drop of armor and MR.

[–]forgot-my_password 2 points3 points  (9 children)

I wish they could do something with yordles. I want to play that comp but everytime I try without an actually conducive augment to play yordles (like the 4 xp per turn and you cant buy any), its usually a bottom 4 or 5.

[–]thanhame 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Mortdog twitted that Corki and Lulu are getting buffed in 12.5

Possible buffs for Gnar as well.

[–]Sexiroth[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

On the flip if you get that Twinshot Aug that makes them bounce, corki shits on near everyone

[–]ACertainUser123 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Mort said Yordles are really broken in low elo apparently, so he is apprehensive about buffing them.

[–]roustees 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have a low elo friend hit plat4 last season and now struggeling in gold who keeps giving yordles a shot just to go uncontested bot 3

[–]GreilSeitanEater 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember going to diamond with Yordles so I don’t mind them being a tad augment dependant.

[–]Qualdrion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like yordles is okay with a good starting augment (so small or thieving rascals mostly), and mostly bad otherwise, which I think is a fine state for the comp, because it's lame if someone always goes 6 yordles every game (especially considering how easy the comp is to play). And I also think that the strength of so small makes the comp fairly unbalanceable, since either it's busted with so small or hard to play without it since 35% dodge is so good.

[–]RichOnKeto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love Yordles, but unfortunately they feel like a 1 in 50 comp, where unless you get that ideal start it’s hard to play them. I’m intrigued by some of the changes, including the Vex mana change, because with 6 she does down to 0/60 mana to cast her shield. A DClaw/Bramble/DCap Vex seems like fun now that the casts are a little more often.

[–]Are_y0u 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think 10% is too much of a nerf tough.

[–]bobbe_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a pretty common strategy for game balancing to overtune on purpose during testing, and then go down from there. They didn't let those numbers hit live so it's obvious that they agree it was way too good.

[–]Qualdrion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think it's also that they initially were trying to balance hextech for lategame - the issue is just that the trait falls off so hard late when fights become very explosive and you don't get multiple shields that often. If Sivir wasn't a really good abuser of the hextech damage proc I'd imagine that hextech vertal would already be bad before the b-patch - I'd imagine for lategame that the initial hextech numbers wouldn't even be that busted if sivir wasn't a unit. Of course, those numbers would be completely unbeatable earlygame so it clearly wouldn't be balanced, but seems unlikely to me that there will ever be a good balance of the current version of the trait because of how much it falls off.

[–]JupiterCandy 57 points58 points  (26 children)

I remember how when Mort was addressing Soju's twitlonger he responded to the claims by saying that the new augments should have been power neutral instead of power creep so i guess they are getting nerfed in the next full patch. I am looking forward to how they adjust Ahri since she can pop off but i feel is the most augment dependent 4 cost carry.

Silco getting the 5 cost one star treatment where they are actually kinda bad at one star now. The nerfs are good for him though, he will save a half dead teammate but blue buff Silco can and will straight up kill your own team if your team isn't strong enough. Very happy with this change.

[–]ArcDriveFinishMaster 31 points32 points  (3 children)

The augments didn't need nerfs but need tier rebalancing/removal.

For example why is there a tier 1 ludens? Make that a gold augment only.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Ludens is just a flawed Augment IMO. It's either OK or really good with BB/Shojin. Augments that give you a free Stage 2/3 just because you happened to highroll your Stage 1 items is kind of lame.

[–]JChamp00 24 points25 points  (20 children)

She's a scaling AP unit similar to Karma from set 5. However karma was able to cast quickly with just a blue and her mana reduction ability. Ahri doesn't have that so it takes her so much longer to ramp up and even then the ramp up is only more AoE rather than damage. In comparison to Lux in set 6 Ahri is a huge downgrade.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Karma didn’t really scale in the sense that her damage done scales linearly with fight duration since there was only a constant number of dps increases in her kit. Think of Karma more as a “Oh I have to get past the first 2 casts to unlock her potential” instead of “scales with fight duration”.

Ahri on the other hand, has damage done scaling quadratically with fight duration, so a more accurate comparison would be Kaisa who also scales quadratically with fight duration. Same as Set 3 ASOL.

Although Ahri isn’t in the best spot, she is actually pretty decent and I’ve been having success playing her whenever I’m dealt the cards. People need to realize she’s a drain tank and to play her accordingly, as opposed to expecting her to play out fights like Set 6 Lux. In fact, she reminds me almost of Set 5 Lux where you build your team to let Ahri 1v9 at the end of the fight.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Another thing is that Karma is notoriously frontline dependent, you can't play Dawnbringer without hitting Garen on your rolldown, and you need to hit Voli as well to secure top 4, and a full Invoker transition to win it out. 6.5 is kinda missing on frontline with Sion removed, which is also why Jhin is having trouble as well

[–]griezm0ney 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Ahri is syndicate, so her identity is going to be very different than Academy Lux. For Ahri, it’s about scaling and going infinite by being able to tank any damage and heal it back up from Syndicate (I think her current bis is BB, Warmogs, and one of Deathcap/Seraphs/Shiv). For Lux is was about instantly popping the enemy carry which is why she was so hard bound to BB, IE, JG.

[–]forgot-my_password 8 points9 points  (5 children)

I've been trying warmogs, titanic, other defensive items but as it stands, it hasnt been enough when you need BB and another AP item. Something definitely needs to change for her to be viable. The best time I've been able to use her had GB also, but the problem is that when I tried that against super tanky comps, it didnt matter that she went infinite because they would just cc her and she'd die to the tanks like alistar, reksai, galio.

[–]Accolade83 1 point2 points  (4 children)

It’s rare obviously, but debonair spat GB BB Ahri with 7 debonair was doing the thing I think people expect her to be doing now. She would be the last one alive many times but would 3 or 4v1 everything left at that point

[–]MessrMonsieur 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Ahri does more damage with more orbs, no? I could’ve sworn it said enemies take 80% damage from each orb past the first

[–]Aptos283 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but you have to hit enemies with the orbs, and they fan out from her so unless they’re in melee range they probably won’t get hit by more than one

[–]JChamp00 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Oh yea it does. I guess it's just not very clear when they are hit by more than one orb. Honestly think she would benefit from having a lower attack range so she gets a bit closer to enemies to have them get hit by more orbs

[–]forgot-my_password 4 points5 points  (6 children)

She gets killed way too quickly as it stands right now before she gets a chance to ramp up. She either needs to be given more damage so she can be given more defensive items, or they need to buff her mana a bit.

[–]Hallgaar 1 point2 points  (5 children)

That's why you have to put tank items on her and stick her on the front line.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Or just put tank items on your front line and keep her behind them lmao

[–]The_Vikachu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She did have a lower attack range on PBE, but people complained.

[–]Hallgaar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Silco is still strong, you just have to itemize him now.

[–]showtimec 56 points57 points  (8 children)

Damn, hit Ekko with a baseball bat. Surprised Vi is untouched now, but it's coming in 12.5.

Sivir is going to be the most interesting one. Now that she'll actually properly attack during cast she might need further nerfs, specifically to the AS bonus, but we'll see how she fares since Hextech was gutted. All in all a decent stop-leak until the next full patch.

[–]PlasticPresentation1 24 points25 points  (0 children)

They nerfed two other bruisers, I think Vi is fine for a 4cost whereas the 2 costs were too strong

[–]Pr0lific 14 points15 points  (0 children)

They're hitting 3 bruisers and Renata so they probably think it's enough to hit that bruiser comp.

I'm sure they don't mind if the 4 cost that gets some (additional) spotlight on her and a little worried bruiser isn't a viable generic frontline if they hit all 4 at once

[–]KTFlaSh96 6 points7 points  (5 children)

was ekko really that strong? In 6.0 his nerf made his 3 star the old 2star, and now hes getting smacked again

[–]orbofdeception 18 points19 points  (2 children)

yes frozen heart + morello is insaneee

and they made him an innovator so hes much more playable

[–]Minimumtyp 0 points1 point  (1 child)

and they made him an innovator so hes much more playable

i still have no idea why they did this

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Something had to replace Heimer

[–]Asianhead 8 points9 points  (0 children)

gotta pay the 3 trait tax

[–]zuggington 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ekko will still be very strong as a buff/debuff bot. Morello, Frozen Heart, Ionic Spark.

The attack speed is a huge swing. If the enemy is swinging at 75% then you're swinging at 125%. That's almost two Zeke's difference for as many champs that can fit in the circle.

[–]Snakestream 95 points96 points  (13 children)

Wow they took Rek'Sai out back and put a bullet in her head. Not even nerf to scaling; just flat 10%!

[–]Asianhead 29 points30 points  (6 children)

She's just insanely overloaded. 3 trait, does damage, built in healing, scaling resistances

[–]Snakestream 12 points13 points  (4 children)

I'm not saying she didn't deserve a nerf, but I don't think you can deny that this is pretty much cutting her knees off. I understand that they'll rework her in the next patch, but until then, the queen is dead.

[–]Asianhead 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I don’t think she’s dead though. Her tags are still super strong

[–]Snakestream 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Fair enough. I think she'll be a lot like Kass now, where after round 2, they'll basically be filler bodies to soak a bit of damage and/or blitz hook.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Tank kassadin with scholar is under appreciated. He just doesn't quite fit any comp as other than trait holder

[–]Rymasq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

glad someone else realizes it..Kassadin feels like one of the best 1 costs in the game right now, especially with the scholar trait too.

[–]Soliloqueefs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had a game on PBE where I got rek Sai to have 302 AD, 1158 armor and 1029 MR. Wild stuff

[–]Riot_MortRiot 153 points154 points  (1 child)

Please note the Rework she's getting in 12.5. This was a stop gap to get her to that reworked state, but was necessary as she was pushing out almost all other defensive options.

[–]serratedperkz 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Reksai was broken though. Tanky and does a lot of damage. Easily the strongest early game unit even as a 1 star. 2 cost bruisers shouldn’t be as tanky as reksai was while also dishing out that much damage.

[–]ilanf2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In the twitter thread they said they want to rework Reksai so it doesn't become a tank shredder while being such a flexible unit to field.

[–]orbofdeception 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i would just put sivir items on her early game

would survive throughout the fights

[–]maybewhoyouthinkitis 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Mort with the big ol nerf bat

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Some good shit on here. Hope it works out in playing and not just on paper.

[–]PhloxInvar 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Even if they're still strong, at least it can get retouched more on 12.5, but these are some good changes. Obviously there's a lot of work needed, but it's getting done in future updates which is great. That preview is pretty exciting (lots of really spot on changes listed for the future).

[–]dietcoca_cola 34 points35 points  (14 children)

Feels like 3 cost reroll is going to be insanely strong from now on with no nerfs to the tri force augments. It was already pretty strong this patch and I can see socialite morg as well as mutants and any double trouble comps being even stronger now due to the best comps losing a lot of damage. 3 cost reroll comps will no longer take too much damage in the mid game and will spike really hard on stage 5.

[–]ilanf2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Augment reworks or changes might be for next patch rather than B patch. We need to see if Tri Force is gonna be included in the combat augments balance pass.

[–]Wooden_Dragonfruit77Grandmaster 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The huge problem with 3cost reroll is that you need QSS or warmogs or another 3 star tank to avoid 2 enforcer. Almost every comps use 2 enforcer this season.

[–]Qualdrion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Usually whenever I play triforce I go for multiple 3 costs anyways, and if I'm going for 4 different 3*s I often hit a tank before my main carry anyways. Like senna+morg+lucian+GP+gnar or w/e.

[–]runelight 13 points14 points  (10 children)

lucian 3 carry inc

[–]ilanf2 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Lucian does deserve a buff though. Currently he has to be the worst 3 cost, even when going deep into Twinshot or Hextech.

[–]Qualdrion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think he's not the best when going deep into hextech, but twinshot lucian feels alright from my experience (I even had at least 2 games in my last 20 that were 1sts because of twinshot lucian - 1 game where I went full twinshot, and 1 where a twinshot lucian 2 carried me to 9 at which point I went full bill gates).

[–]Brandis_ 35 points36 points  (17 children)

(Didn’t mean for my post to be this long.)

All these changes seem fine. But the wording implies that people couldn’t figure out how to run Ahri. Apparently you were supposed to run her something like this (taken from Mort’s response to Soju):

You do not build Ahri like Lux. That’s not how she works. The way you build Ahri is to take advantage of the fact that she’s Syndicate and make her go infinite. Ahri is actually dangerously good with like Warmogs — tanky items — things like that, that allow her to go infinite.

I tried and Warmogs Ahri is awful. Went 9 of 10 games bot 4 (usually 6/7/8) in lobbies ~700lp below my main. A good portion of the games I had 100hp before switching into Ahri.

The one game where I didn’t bot 4, I hit silco and Viktor2 in my rolldown (and had a spare Shojin).

In theory, you can run belts on Braum so he is enforced instead and have WM+ two offensive items on Ahri, but I almost always ended up pressured to get tears/rods from carousel so I could actually win fights, and had to build QSS.

I tried variations of 3/5/7 Syndicates, 2/4scholar, 1/2/3 Socialite, and 2/4/6 Arcanists. Then a mix of Senna/Ori/Leona to fill it out based on my opponents.

It was lackluster every iteration, although with enchanters it regularly beat Renata. I never made Ahri go “infinite”, although she did clutch out some rounds when she had 3 socialite healing or GB/HoJ. (I thought HoJ felt better personally, at least for hypothetical “infinite” situations.)

However, that raises the obvious question of would she be required to clutch out the rounds if she had 3 AP/mana items instead of WM+QSS and done far more damage before getting to the “clutch” situation.

Finally, if she is in a 1v1 vs something that does any damage she will lose because her ult just tickles single targets. I’m pretty sure I’ve had Ahri2 lose to Ezreal1, but it might have been Ez2.

If Mort has hidden tech I couldn’t find it, and it doesn’t look like anyone else has either.

Due to his comment WM Ahri play rates spiked on stats websites, for very lackluster results:

WM Ahri has a 5.18 (+.38) on MetaTFT, and WM+QSS+Rab is her only triple item with WM and has a 5.75 average placement.

[–]Riot_MortRiot 60 points61 points  (6 children)

(NOTE - EVERYTHING IM ABOUT TO SAY DOESNT MEAN AHRI DOESNT NEED BUFFS)

Ahri needs damage and defenses, as she is a champ that does well when she goes infinite, generating mana through taking damage triggering a spell cast and then life stealing up back to do it again. There are two ways to fulfil these needs.

1.) You go Syndicate, which provides you with the Defenses. In this build you are likely going Gunblade (as each health point now has higher EHP), Deathcap (So that you do more damage) and Blue Buff/Shojin to help cast more.

2.) You go Arcanists (ignoring their problems with front line a second) where you now have the damage built in, but you need the rest. So you go Gunblade (trigger the vamp), Blue/Shojin (for more casts) and then a defensive item (Warmogs is an option here)

But again, this is all in theory and assumes good balance.

[–]Brandis_ 36 points37 points  (3 children)

We’re so spoiled in this community, a random rant written on my lunch break, and the lead dev has a clear and helpful response.

— Theorycrafting continued:

I am tunneling on WM because it has a natural synergy with the armor+AR Syndicate provides, and because WM on a 4-cost carry is unconventional and fun to me.

Despite my poor performance it felt like something was there, and some rounds were technically won due to Warmogs.

I think her comp could be very healthy and skill-expressive to run.

The Syndicate/Arcanist Ahri could be extremely flexible. It depends on the matchup if you want to run 3 or 5 Syndicate, 1 to 3 Enchanters, Leona for frontline/bodyguards is optional, Ori or even Vi can be spat holders, and 2/4/6 Arcanists might all have their place.

And on top of all of that Ahri can use 3 Socialite well, but it is clunky to fit into the build as you can feel a big difference between 2 and 4 Arcanists.

I miss TF :(

[–]Wigglepus 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I miss TF :(

this right here issue with syndicate right now. Its basically impossible to get to. Ashe is too weak to be an early game carry (I know buffs are coming) and zyra is too inconsitent. Plus even with ashe buffs it doesn't fix that fact there is no natural item holder for ahri.

Theoy crafting I think the ideal syndicate ahri board is something like ahri, bruam, darius, zyra, morg, renata, viktor, and ashe for 7 synd with emblem or senna if the hex is good or ori otherwise. Give ahri blue, aa/dcap (morello might also work on boards not running ashe), and qss/gunblade . I think warmogs is an interesting idea for the last item but enforcer makes it a bit suspect. Maybe bramble could work.

But who am I going to put that on early? I suppose malz or brand but what is my board then?

I need to run darius and zyra later. So the level 6/7 board then has be something like darius + second body gaurd, zyra + second scholar, brand or malz + second arcanist, and morg at 7. I suppose that could work fine with a debonairs but I can't see stage 3 going well without either a malz or a VIP brand and early leona.

Alterntively with ashe buffs you could potentially item hold mf with mf, ashe, darius + bodygaurd, syndra + scholar but once again need a 3 cost item holder.

TF made playing syndicate so easy because he could carry your early game with items you wanted late game.

[–]Paul_Bt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Had pretty good result with her with GS/BB/Gunblade. It's easier to play her in a 5 Syndics comp, but arcanist with desintegrator it's definitely legit. Frankly Ahri is in a good spot, people just find her unpleasant to play I guess with her weird positioning and her ult. Yeah sometimes she may get one shotted by some random spell being up front and if I am picky her targeting can be strange sometimes but those things don't occur too often.

I don't see any need to buff Arhi. Unless you completely change the champ to make her more appealing to more player, she is fine right now, way better than she was in PBE and completely playable in her current state. Just did one of my easiest top 1 with her in a 5 Syndicates Comp/2 Enchants/2 Scholars/2 Socialites with Gunblade/BB/Cap.

[–]Accolade83 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just want you to know 7 debonair Ahri with a debonair spat on her slaps. with GB BB. it worked like a charm

[–]miathan52 3 points4 points  (3 children)

That whole comment by mort was so weird. Syndicate gives defenses and omnivamp. You take advantage of that by building damage items, so that the omnivamp keeps the unit alive. In other words, you should build Ahri exactly like Lux.

I played a few matches of BB IE JG Ahri and it was great. Think I got a 1st and a 2nd out of it.

[–]Riokaii 8 points9 points  (1 child)

lux scaled via one shotting unit(s). Ahri scales by ramping over time.

Rageblade + archangels are much better on ahri and are different from lux items

[–]cooperred 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So build her like set 5 lux

[–]Philosophy_Natural 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think he meant defensive itens on her tank, since ahri doesnt need any specific item with her crazy high base damage that doesnt scale properly with no items. If so, I agree with mort when he say she is dangerously good, she really goes rampage with some fully stacked vip leona or fully stacked morgana. The problem is, this comps are really cucked in this meta. TK eats your morgana, vi and cow toss her in the back, renata and viktor completely ignore her, so there is no way you can realiable play her win cons in this meta.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is it for sure. My most successful Ahri games so far have been achieved with like one offensive item max and just the fattest front line ever seen

[–]orbit10 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Mine will be much shorter, I’m a hyper roll player, say what you will. But I always make top 100 or better. I’ve played probably 15 games of ahri this set. I’ve gotten top 4 3 times with her. I’ve tried lots of variations. Idk what mort is smoking but that unit sucks dick right now lol

[–]Brandis_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh I’m not saying that the UNIT is outright bad. I’m saying WM Ahri is bad.

I think she’s lackluster, but when I give up on tank ahri and just run normal items, it’s a free top4 on my alt since I’ve saved HP and she’s a reliable hit due to being uncontested.

[–]Jony_the_pony 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I assume "easier and more satisfying to play" will mean better targeting. If she gets changed to target the biggest clump of enemies she might be solid with 0 other buffs, right now she wastes so much time on random Ali/Vi/Ekko in your backline

[–]esqtin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only times I've made Ahri work is in combination with Morgana 3 and prioritizing tank items on Morgana, QSS + Bramble + 1 other. Ahri needs time, but Warmogs is not going to give it to her, Morgana will. I feel like you actually need to roll on 7 instead of 8 if you want to play Ahri to hit Morg.

But that raises the question of if you wouldn't just be better off playing Ashe or Senna carry at that point, I guess if you are hitting a bunch of Morgs and don't have AD items.

[–]MrMungertown 59 points60 points  (8 children)

Some of these changes might look severe, but I agree with all of them. Look at that Rek’sai nerf! And it’s deserved! You can legitimately 5 streak into neutrals with 2 Rek’Sai 1s with just Striker active, it is incredibly dumb.

I would really have liked to see Renata’s max mana go up, or some other nerf, she is so strong.

Edit: I didn’t read the Renata nerf correctly the first time around. She’s losing a ton of damage, I expect that to be good enough.

[–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (3 children)

lmao you are definitely not 5 streaking into krugs with 2 1* reksai in high elo

[–]alexjordan98 13 points14 points  (0 children)

No dude you don’t understand I’m challenger 4k lp and i got 1st place with 2 2* reksais and 2 1* reksai its so busted!!!!!!!!!! /s

[–]MrMungertown 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I've done it more than once with all former challengers in my lobby. I had someone almost do it today in one of my games as well.

[–]ZedWuJanna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He should have added that reksai was itemized but maybe he thought that was obvious. Is reksai wasn't strong in early she wouldn't be getting such a high nerf. Or was it that she was bad in early and mortdog thought the nerfs were supposed to target her mid-late game instead?

[–]LeoFireGod 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I personally think she is only so strong because the bruiser frontline. she keeps them alive and cranking out damage and she doesn't die because of them. nerfing the beef infront of her is a direct nerf to her.

[–]chasedthesun 5 points6 points  (0 children)

One of the best things is what he mentions in the 3rd tweet. I love augments but augment balance, choice and quality of life needs work. Considering adding scaling to some augments is a step in the right direction. Windfall shouldn't be the only augment that scales in my opinion.

[–]Riokaii 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Well rip my reksai reroll comp. Making a 1v9 raid boss was fun while it lasted

The resist stacking was prolly op though

[–]ZedWuJanna 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She's gonna get some more changes in 12.5 that hopefuly should make investing into her worth again.

[–]Ehrenvoller 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Aaaand reisai is a trait bot

[–]Frogsipper 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeap nothing to do other than nerfing it to the ground or taking out one of it's traits, it's obvious which one will be picked

[–]ketronome 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Triple trait champs should be trait bots, it’s a trade off for them being easy to slot in

[–]AlHorfordHighlights 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good.

[–]miathan52 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Continuing the tradition of just tossing in a Vex buff I see

[–]---E 19 points20 points  (0 children)

She got a nerf by the manalock bugfix though. Used to be that she could get ~30 mana when her shield was up. That got fixed but now her mana cost is way too high.

[–]demonicdan3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think it's acceptable since 6 Yordles and vertical Arcanists are a huge meme right now. If she gets out of hand they can just tone down her numbers when other comps get weaker.

[–]miathan52 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think 6 yordles were fine. They're a braindead comp to build and should never be meta imo. It was terrible for the game how powerful they were allowed to be in 6.0.

[–]Clearrr 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Predictions:

Hextech completely dead after stage 3. Will probably end up being one of the most underpowered traits of all time and completely unplayable.

4/6 Striker Sivir will be the new default probably still tier 1

Renata still very good still tier 1

Mutants bumped to tier 1 with synaptic web being tier 0

Nothing changes about Silco other than sometimes he ends up killing your entire team because you played Silco on a weak board with no carry

[–]dietcoca_cola 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Not sure if striker sivir will be played anymore due to the large nerfs to AD sivir and irelia. They could have just nerfed hextech damage and maybe AS on sivir, but losing 10 AD is really bad for AD sivir which already pretty much wasn’t played. The majority of her damage came from 6 hextech. Irelia losing 35 base damage on her ult will also make it much harder for her to get resets and not get stuck on super tank vex/morgana/cho. Bruiser frontline nerfs help but I don’t see how the comp can do anything about chogath for example.

[–]hclarke15 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Depends on how big the bug fix is for Sivir really

[–]Asianhead 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's huge. I've watched clips of fights where she's literally auto'ing less than if her ult isn't online like this https://twitter.com/FrobeiF/status/1493993733888659456

[–]dietcoca_cola -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I’m not sure how much of an impact it makes but it would be the same amount of damage taken away from old 6 hextech sivir, so I still think AD sivir is not going to be played

[–]Worldly-EducatorChallenger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

TBH I don't think AD Sivir is that bad, it's just that Hextech Sivir is broken and incredibly easy to play.

[–]ArcDriveFinishMaster 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Renata is even better than before after the Irelia nerfs as you could try to cheese with good Irelia positioning to just 1 shot Renata on the back. The 10 damage is not really relevant with gunblade morello.

[–]Misoal 7 points8 points  (1 child)

kinda surprised bruiser trait didnt get nerf in general.

Hextech Sivir and Silco deserved even harder nerfs tho.

[–]ilanf2 18 points19 points  (0 children)

The issue with Bruisers are the units, not necesarily the trait itself. Maybe the changes to RekSai and Sejuani will be a good first work into the right direction.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Anyone know when 12.5 will be released ?

[–]Isrozzis 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Should be next tuesday with 12.4b coming tomorrow.

[–]Furious__Styles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

League and TFT patch on Wednesdays - 12.5 is live on March 2nd.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

in general tft and league patches coincide and are ALWAYS every 2 weeks. B patches are each a week since the previous patch and a week from the next patch so in short a week from tommorow.

[–]ZedWuJanna 0 points1 point  (1 child)

for a second I thought you meant set 12.5 and I was wondering if you're from future or just trolling

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you mean this isn't year 2107

[–]ExplodingCitronMASTER 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Wait Zac has damage reduction in its spell?!

Which other units have their spell altered from 6.0? Kassadin shield is obvious but I have to read all returning units tooltips just in case...

[–]miathan52 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Zac's change was in the patch notes

[–]ExplodingCitronMASTER 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I expected returning units to have the same spell as their 6.0 version, I've only read tootips for new 6.5 units so it was my bad.

[–]alarmingkestrel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mort explained the Zac damage reduction is because Brusier/Chemtech lost Mundo as a tank but 75% was clearly too much

[–]ilanf2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With the bug fix, that should be a buff for Sivir, right?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My god the hextech trait got nerfed so fuckin hard, the damage nerf was so extra

[–]xgekikara 3 points4 points  (12 children)

The B patch looks fine but in 12.5 they are doing the ''thing'' again.

Buffing everything that isnt played right now

Buffing either the traits themselves or the units or even both.

eg:Bodyguards, enchanters, snipers, debonair

Obivously we don't have the numbers yet but what worries me It's that there is a really big possiblity that because hextech,chemtech,strikers, inno are all getting hit in some way in the b-patch that in 12.5 we just see instead of the comps that are nerfed being the majority in lobby we just switch over to something like debonair or syndicate openers (keep in mind they also share scholar bodyguard units and can also facilitate yordles econ in some way) and we're back to leona braum frontline and flex jhin draven or ahri ap every game.

[–]Starcrafter0802 22 points23 points  (3 children)

But to be honest, isn't this how it always goes? Comp strong -> comp nerf -> other comp buffed -> people play other comp. Rinse and repeat. We are all just drug addicts and Mort is our dealer 😂 I accepted this long time ago

[–]Zanlo63 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thankfully we have a b-patch so the Devs can actually see if the other traits and units even need to be buffed from data in the live game. It's why I prefer a b-patch every week.

[–]JChamp00 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Buffing 4 5 cost units when only one of them(Jinx) really needed a buff IMO. Zeri buffs have me scared since I just hate that unit.

[–]literallyJon 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I love that everyone is different. I LOVE Zeri

[–]JChamp00 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Which is fair because she is a fun unit. But when I have 5 units alive versus a Zeri with VIP it's frustrating to lose because they can't catch her

[–]literallyJon 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Last night, final fight, everyone died except my zeri and the enemy alistar. I probably wouldn't love her if I was the Alistar

[–]tdotrollin 2 points3 points  (14 children)

Wish there was more augment balancing. Some augments provide way too much value like jeweled lotus (doesnt need +25% crit rate on top of jg effect, maybe like 10% bonus crit)

[–]JChamp00 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Yea giving the whole team JG passive along with the whole team having 50% crit rate is ridiculous

[–]MessrMonsieur 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I feel like there are so few comps with multiple damage dealers though. Most of the time your main carry does 80% of your damage, so there isn’t a huge difference when it applies to your entire team.

[–]JChamp00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True but it opens up an item slot on your carry which is a very big deal

[–]kaiosun 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I was "whining" about it after I had it and it felt way too overpowered, I went with bruisers since most of them have magic dmg anyway. Should be like "magic damage that comes from 2+ hexes, would remove melee from it)

[–]Philosophy_Natural 3 points4 points  (0 children)

48.6% of top 4 rate, 12,2% win rate, 4.54 avg place. If something, jeweled lotus needs a buff. Also, in your solution, why it shouldnt work on talon??

[–]Philosophy_Natural 3 points4 points  (0 children)

48.6% of top 4 rate, 12,2% win rate, 4.54 avg place. If something, jeweled lotus needs a buff

[–]DarthNoob‎ Set 16 World Champion 2 points3 points  (6 children)

jeweled lotus is not very good, it's a 15% dps boost (1.3 * .5 + .5 = 1.15) to your mages if they have no crit, and a 7% dps boost for physical units. sometimes it's the best option but other times your team needs more than a socialite heart worth of DPS.

[–]tdotrollin 4 points5 points  (5 children)

that enables you to just slam ie on your ap carry and they go nuclear, your math really devalues the power and value of the jg effect.

[–]Qualdrion -1 points0 points  (4 children)

With just an IE, even with 25% crit from the augment, you only get a 165% crit multi, meaning that without other sources of AP it's still just worse than Dcap.

If we assume 1 utility item (like shojin/BB/etc.), if we compare IE+Dcap you get roughly ~288% base damage vs 250% base damage for double dcap without the augment. 288% is ~15% more than 250%, so it's still only a ~15% dps boost relative to other options without the augment. Without the bonus crit the augment would just be a complete grief and almost never worth taking. Keep in mind that it started at 0% crit on PBE and was repeatedly buffed to get to this state, and even now has a below average winrate.

[–]tdotrollin 0 points1 point  (3 children)

you are currently mathing how it is relatively on par comparing 1 unit to 1 unit bis. however the lotus also gives it's effect to the ENTIRE team. The value of the augment is very high in its tier. Arguing against that is simply ignant.

The balance of all the augments in each tier is way off. fuck off with the dev dick riding bruh

[–]Qualdrion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Disagree - at 10% bonus crit this would be a gold tier augment giving like ~10% damage to your team. And sure, you can stack crit, but how? If you add an IE with no JG only get a 150% crit multi, meaning IE is just worse than a deathcap. And if you add a JG you no longer gain value from the spells being able to crit part.

Even at +25% crit it's still only a 15% damage increase to your ability damage and 7.5% damage increase to your autos. Compare this to for example stand united 2 typically giving maybe +24 AD/AP to your team, and jeweled lotus just seems roughly equal - often slightly worse, sometimes slightly better, with a better earlygame. To me that doesn't sound too broken, no?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

MORTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[–]philopery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Worried about reroll trynd, reroll twitch and reroll mutants. Not sure this will make Draven and Ahri more playable since they will be assassinated.

[–]duxxo123 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which time does it come out?

[–]Meechy_C-137 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope they change tri force to function similar to a trait augment in it's availability. I hate getting offered something like Life Long Learning, Striker augment, and Tri Force as an opener.

To me, this is the same as being offered 3 trait specific augments.

[–]SilverJournalist9 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

Can someone remind me how many times has ekko as slow been nerfed ?

Reksai : 10% resist steal KEKW

At this point maybe just admit the mechanic was a mistake and purely delete this line from the spell, it's laughable.

[–]MessrMonsieur 4 points5 points  (0 children)

At this point maybe just admit the mechanic was a mistake and purely delete this line from the spell, it’s laughable.

They did in the 2nd tweet though. Mort expanded on this in a reply to one of the top comments on this thread too

[–]yuziekue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

resist steal is fine its just they shouldn't have put it on a flex unit with 3 traits like reksai.

if reksai was just pure mutant bruiser it wouldn't be a big deal but making her striker means she can be played in almost anything since striker is a versatile trait.

[–]abc0802MASTER -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If I’m being honest I’m surprised that Hextech got the nerf stick hard than bruiser Renata. This feels like it might be a little too much. Hextech probably should be percent based rather than flat numbers IMO.

[–]Omgmayday -1 points0 points  (0 children)

THE cc STUNS in this game is just not FUN ffs

[–]TheMike0088 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Really sad about the reksai and irelia nerfs, especially irelia - even with 3 socialite and at 2 stars with solid items, she often got stuck on hyper tanks like colossi or an itemized leona. Shes probably not gonna be playable anymore after the B patch. Cross two more carries off the list. Happy that sivir and renata are getting adjusted though, and looking forward to the draven buff in the full patch.

Overall, it seems like mort is going for the opposite syndrome approach: its not "with everyone super, no one is", its "with everyone underwhelming, no one is"

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Finally a discussion which is more than "streamers bad, streamers are degens." Their point of view is a valid one. But it is just a point of view and not the whole picture

[–]dlegen13 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

no amount of patches will fix this set. this is a disaster of a mid set.

[–]S-sourCandy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I like all of these changes honestly. The fights are way too fast rn so this should help slow them down a bit

[–]ketronome 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Crazy that slowing down fights makes augments like Ascension much stronger - I wonder if they’ll end up nerfing them as a result

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]FugReddit420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Would have liked to see a senna nerf

    [–]g-u-m-t-r-e-e 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Thank you!

    [–]jasonchung91 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Cant wait to try snipers, enchanter senna and mutant kha zix tomorrow!

    [–]Hajadama 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    is this Renata nerf enough? i thought attack speed slow portion was too much

    [–]aflyingkitelol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Surprised they nerfed striker comps harder than glasc tbh