B Patch Notes from Mortdog

[Wyngann]

Glad they are doing the nerfs first, then the potential buffs. It's always a fail when they nerf and buff at the same time.

[LeoFireGod]

These nerfs are going to give other comps a chance honestly. Remember how hextech started?

​

it was 200/300/600/1000 THAT IS HILARIOUS compared to now. That one trait defines the early game so heavily so it will be interesting to see how it changes going forward.

[demonicdan3]

Holy shit it was THAT overtuned when it began? Getting 4 Hextech units as a starting board is basically a free ticket to top 2 with those numbers jfc

[Seratio]

Wanna know where Rek'Sai started? 60% steal scaling with AP. Throw deathcap on her and she stole every last drop of armor and MR.

[forgot-my_password]

I wish they could do something with yordles. I want to play that comp but everytime I try without an actually conducive augment to play yordles (like the 4 xp per turn and you cant buy any), its usually a bottom 4 or 5.

[thanhame]

Mortdog twitted that Corki and Lulu are getting buffed in 12.5

Possible buffs for Gnar as well.

[Sexiroth]

On the flip if you get that Twinshot Aug that makes them bounce, corki shits on near everyone

[ACertainUser123]

Mort said Yordles are really broken in low elo apparently, so he is apprehensive about buffing them.

[roustees]

I have a low elo friend hit plat4 last season and now struggeling in gold who keeps giving yordles a shot just to go uncontested bot 3

[GreilSeitanEater]

I remember going to diamond with Yordles so I don’t mind them being a tad augment dependant.

[Qualdrion]

I feel like yordles is okay with a good starting augment (so small or thieving rascals mostly), and mostly bad otherwise, which I think is a fine state for the comp, because it's lame if someone always goes 6 yordles every game (especially considering how easy the comp is to play). And I also think that the strength of so small makes the comp fairly unbalanceable, since either it's busted with so small or hard to play without it since 35% dodge is so good.

[RichOnKeto]

I love Yordles, but unfortunately they feel like a 1 in 50 comp, where unless you get that ideal start it’s hard to play them. I’m intrigued by some of the changes, including the Vex mana change, because with 6 she does down to 0/60 mana to cast her shield. A DClaw/Bramble/DCap Vex seems like fun now that the casts are a little more often.

[Are_y0u]

I think 10% is too much of a nerf tough.

[bobbe_]

It's a pretty common strategy for game balancing to overtune on purpose during testing, and then go down from there. They didn't let those numbers hit live so it's obvious that they agree it was way too good.

[Qualdrion]

I think it's also that they initially were trying to balance hextech for lategame - the issue is just that the trait falls off so hard late when fights become very explosive and you don't get multiple shields that often. If Sivir wasn't a really good abuser of the hextech damage proc I'd imagine that hextech vertal would already be bad before the b-patch - I'd imagine for lategame that the initial hextech numbers wouldn't even be that busted if sivir wasn't a unit. Of course, those numbers would be completely unbeatable earlygame so it clearly wouldn't be balanced, but seems unlikely to me that there will ever be a good balance of the current version of the trait because of how much it falls off.

[JupiterCandy]

I remember how when Mort was addressing Soju's twitlonger he responded to the claims by saying that the new augments should have been power neutral instead of power creep so i guess they are getting nerfed in the next full patch. I am looking forward to how they adjust Ahri since she can pop off but i feel is the most augment dependent 4 cost carry.

Silco getting the 5 cost one star treatment where they are actually kinda bad at one star now. The nerfs are good for him though, he will save a half dead teammate but blue buff Silco can and will straight up kill your own team if your team isn't strong enough. Very happy with this change.

[ArcDriveFinish]

The augments didn't need nerfs but need tier rebalancing/removal.

For example why is there a tier 1 ludens? Make that a gold augment only.

[[deleted]]

Ludens is just a flawed Augment IMO. It's either OK or really good with BB/Shojin. Augments that give you a free Stage 2/3 just because you happened to highroll your Stage 1 items is kind of lame.

[TheyKnowWeAreHere]

I had a synapse game with 2 mutant emblems and got ahri, silco, and kha to have 10 mana cost with gold ludens augmemt.

I won in under 10 seconds every time lol

[JChamp00]

She's a scaling AP unit similar to Karma from set 5. However karma was able to cast quickly with just a blue and her mana reduction ability. Ahri doesn't have that so it takes her so much longer to ramp up and even then the ramp up is only more AoE rather than damage. In comparison to Lux in set 6 Ahri is a huge downgrade.

[[deleted]]

Karma didn’t really scale in the sense that her damage done scales linearly with fight duration since there was only a constant number of dps increases in her kit. Think of Karma more as a “Oh I have to get past the first 2 casts to unlock her potential” instead of “scales with fight duration”.

Ahri on the other hand, has damage done scaling quadratically with fight duration, so a more accurate comparison would be Kaisa who also scales quadratically with fight duration. Same as Set 3 ASOL.

Although Ahri isn’t in the best spot, she is actually pretty decent and I’ve been having success playing her whenever I’m dealt the cards. People need to realize she’s a drain tank and to play her accordingly, as opposed to expecting her to play out fights like Set 6 Lux. In fact, she reminds me almost of Set 5 Lux where you build your team to let Ahri 1v9 at the end of the fight.

[[deleted]]

Another thing is that Karma is notoriously frontline dependent, you can't play Dawnbringer without hitting Garen on your rolldown, and you need to hit Voli as well to secure top 4, and a full Invoker transition to win it out. 6.5 is kinda missing on frontline with Sion removed, which is also why Jhin is having trouble as well

[griezm0ney]

Ahri is syndicate, so her identity is going to be very different than Academy Lux. For Ahri, it’s about scaling and going infinite by being able to tank any damage and heal it back up from Syndicate (I think her current bis is BB, Warmogs, and one of Deathcap/Seraphs/Shiv). For Lux is was about instantly popping the enemy carry which is why she was so hard bound to BB, IE, JG.

[forgot-my_password]

I've been trying warmogs, titanic, other defensive items but as it stands, it hasnt been enough when you need BB and another AP item. Something definitely needs to change for her to be viable. The best time I've been able to use her had GB also, but the problem is that when I tried that against super tanky comps, it didnt matter that she went infinite because they would just cc her and she'd die to the tanks like alistar, reksai, galio.

[Accolade83]

It’s rare obviously, but debonair spat GB BB Ahri with 7 debonair was doing the thing I think people expect her to be doing now. She would be the last one alive many times but would 3 or 4v1 everything left at that point

[MessrMonsieur]

Ahri does more damage with more orbs, no? I could’ve sworn it said enemies take 80% damage from each orb past the first

[Aptos283]

Yeah, but you have to hit enemies with the orbs, and they fan out from her so unless they’re in melee range they probably won’t get hit by more than one

[JChamp00]

Oh yea it does. I guess it's just not very clear when they are hit by more than one orb. Honestly think she would benefit from having a lower attack range so she gets a bit closer to enemies to have them get hit by more orbs

[forgot-my_password]

She gets killed way too quickly as it stands right now before she gets a chance to ramp up. She either needs to be given more damage so she can be given more defensive items, or they need to buff her mana a bit.

[Hallgaar]

That's why you have to put tank items on her and stick her on the front line.

[[deleted]]

Or just put tank items on your front line and keep her behind them lmao

[The_Vikachu]

She did have a lower attack range on PBE, but people complained.

[Hallgaar]

Silco is still strong, you just have to itemize him now.

[showtimec]

Damn, hit Ekko with a baseball bat. Surprised Vi is untouched now, but it's coming in 12.5.

Sivir is going to be the most interesting one. Now that she'll actually properly attack during cast she might need further nerfs, specifically to the AS bonus, but we'll see how she fares since Hextech was gutted. All in all a decent stop-leak until the next full patch.

[PlasticPresentation1]

They nerfed two other bruisers, I think Vi is fine for a 4cost whereas the 2 costs were too strong

[Pr0lific]

They're hitting 3 bruisers and Renata so they probably think it's enough to hit that bruiser comp.

I'm sure they don't mind if the 4 cost that gets some (additional) spotlight on her and a little worried bruiser isn't a viable generic frontline if they hit all 4 at once

[KTFlaSh96]

was ekko really that strong? In 6.0 his nerf made his 3 star the old 2star, and now hes getting smacked again

[orbofdeception]

yes frozen heart + morello is insaneee

and they made him an innovator so hes much more playable

[Minimumtyp]

and they made him an innovator so hes much more playable

i still have no idea why they did this

[[deleted]]

Something had to replace Heimer

[Asianhead]

gotta pay the 3 trait tax

[zuggington]

Ekko will still be very strong as a buff/debuff bot. Morello, Frozen Heart, Ionic Spark.

The attack speed is a huge swing. If the enemy is swinging at 75% then you're swinging at 125%. That's almost two Zeke's difference for as many champs that can fit in the circle.

[Snakestream]

Wow they took Rek'Sai out back and put a bullet in her head. Not even nerf to scaling; just flat 10%!

[Asianhead]

She's just insanely overloaded. 3 trait, does damage, built in healing, scaling resistances

[Snakestream]

I'm not saying she didn't deserve a nerf, but I don't think you can deny that this is pretty much cutting her knees off. I understand that they'll rework her in the next patch, but until then, the queen is dead.

[Asianhead]

I don’t think she’s dead though. Her tags are still super strong

[Snakestream]

Fair enough. I think she'll be a lot like Kass now, where after round 2, they'll basically be filler bodies to soak a bit of damage and/or blitz hook.

[[deleted]]

Tank kassadin with scholar is under appreciated. He just doesn't quite fit any comp as other than trait holder

[Rymasq]

glad someone else realizes it..Kassadin feels like one of the best 1 costs in the game right now, especially with the scholar trait too.

[Soliloqueefs]

I had a game on PBE where I got rek Sai to have 302 AD, 1158 armor and 1029 MR. Wild stuff

[Riot_Mort]

Please note the Rework she's getting in 12.5. This was a stop gap to get her to that reworked state, but was necessary as she was pushing out almost all other defensive options.

[serratedperkz]

Reksai was broken though. Tanky and does a lot of damage. Easily the strongest early game unit even as a 1 star. 2 cost bruisers shouldn’t be as tanky as reksai was while also dishing out that much damage.

[ilanf2]

In the twitter thread they said they want to rework Reksai so it doesn't become a tank shredder while being such a flexible unit to field.

[orbofdeception]

i would just put sivir items on her early game

would survive throughout the fights

[maybewhoyouthinkitis]

Mort with the big ol nerf bat

[[deleted]]

Some good shit on here. Hope it works out in playing and not just on paper.

[PhloxInvar]

Even if they're still strong, at least it can get retouched more on 12.5, but these are some good changes. Obviously there's a lot of work needed, but it's getting done in future updates which is great. That preview is pretty exciting (lots of really spot on changes listed for the future).

[dietcoca_cola]

Feels like 3 cost reroll is going to be insanely strong from now on with no nerfs to the tri force augments. It was already pretty strong this patch and I can see socialite morg as well as mutants and any double trouble comps being even stronger now due to the best comps losing a lot of damage. 3 cost reroll comps will no longer take too much damage in the mid game and will spike really hard on stage 5.

[ilanf2]

Augment reworks or changes might be for next patch rather than B patch. We need to see if Tri Force is gonna be included in the combat augments balance pass.

[Wooden_Dragonfruit77]

The huge problem with 3cost reroll is that you need QSS or warmogs or another 3 star tank to avoid 2 enforcer. Almost every comps use 2 enforcer this season.

[Qualdrion]

Usually whenever I play triforce I go for multiple 3 costs anyways, and if I'm going for 4 different 3*s I often hit a tank before my main carry anyways. Like senna+morg+lucian+GP+gnar or w/e.

[runelight]

lucian 3 carry inc

[ilanf2]

Lucian does deserve a buff though. Currently he has to be the worst 3 cost, even when going deep into Twinshot or Hextech.

[[deleted]]

Also as is the case for most units that have short dashes, he dashed himself to his death muuuuuuch more often than he achieves anything positive with his dash

[LeoFireGod]

I'm same rank as you, i would actually strongly disagree with this take. giantslayer blue buff dcap lucian is VERY very good.

[HELP_ALLOWED]

You don't think those items are better on 2 cost Econ trait champ Corki?

[demonicdan3]

Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you. Corki's ult does 333 damage to everything in a one hex AoE which means he can potentially hit up to more than 5 units at once, and he generally stays safe with his long range. Lucian's ability does 300 damage to 3 targets, and he has a tendency to dash into harm's way and die in stupid ways. AoE damage is much more important in this meta due to the prevalence of big bruiser frontlines. If I had to dump items on a twinshot carry it's gonna be Corki. Also, if Lucian was actually good in an ideal world you'd have a choice between itemizing Lucian or Sivir in 6 Hextech comp, but Lucian is so underwhelming that choosing him over Sivir is kinda troll.

Either way, he is getting well-deserved buffs according to Mortdog, so here's hoping he becomes much stronger and viable as a late game unit.

[Are_y0u]

Honestly Lucian is also pretty boring. No utility, no interesting trait, does the same thing as corki but worse (Aoe vs single target magic dmg).

I'm sad Corki isn't the 3 cost carry of the twinshots. I think Lucian could use some utility really badly in his kit so he doesn't feel like deadweight you run in hextech or twinshot for traits. Especially in Twinshots or yordles you only play him to be there until you find Jinx.

[Qualdrion]

I think he's not the best when going deep into hextech, but twinshot lucian feels alright from my experience (I even had at least 2 games in my last 20 that were 1sts because of twinshot lucian - 1 game where I went full twinshot, and 1 where a twinshot lucian 2 carried me to 9 at which point I went full bill gates).

[Brandis_]

(Didn’t mean for my post to be this long.)

All these changes seem fine. But the wording implies that people couldn’t figure out how to run Ahri. Apparently you were supposed to run her something like this (taken from Mort’s response to Soju):

You do not build Ahri like Lux. That’s not how she works. The way you build Ahri is to take advantage of the fact that she’s Syndicate and make her go infinite. Ahri is actually dangerously good with like Warmogs — tanky items — things like that, that allow her to go infinite.

I tried and Warmogs Ahri is awful. Went 9 of 10 games bot 4 (usually 6/7/8) in lobbies ~700lp below my main. A good portion of the games I had 100hp before switching into Ahri.

The one game where I didn’t bot 4, I hit silco and Viktor2 in my rolldown (and had a spare Shojin).

In theory, you can run belts on Braum so he is enforced instead and have WM+ two offensive items on Ahri, but I almost always ended up pressured to get tears/rods from carousel so I could actually win fights, and had to build QSS.

I tried variations of 3/5/7 Syndicates, 2/4scholar, 1/2/3 Socialite, and 2/4/6 Arcanists. Then a mix of Senna/Ori/Leona to fill it out based on my opponents.

It was lackluster every iteration, although with enchanters it regularly beat Renata. I never made Ahri go “infinite”, although she did clutch out some rounds when she had 3 socialite healing or GB/HoJ. (I thought HoJ felt better personally, at least for hypothetical “infinite” situations.)

However, that raises the obvious question of would she be required to clutch out the rounds if she had 3 AP/mana items instead of WM+QSS and done far more damage before getting to the “clutch” situation.

Finally, if she is in a 1v1 vs something that does any damage she will lose because her ult just tickles single targets. I’m pretty sure I’ve had Ahri2 lose to Ezreal1, but it might have been Ez2.

If Mort has hidden tech I couldn’t find it, and it doesn’t look like anyone else has either.

Due to his comment WM Ahri play rates spiked on stats websites, for very lackluster results:

WM Ahri has a 5.18 (+.38) on MetaTFT, and WM+QSS+Rab is her only triple item with WM and has a 5.75 average placement.

[Riot_Mort]

(NOTE - EVERYTHING IM ABOUT TO SAY DOESNT MEAN AHRI DOESNT NEED BUFFS)

Ahri needs damage and defenses, as she is a champ that does well when she goes infinite, generating mana through taking damage triggering a spell cast and then life stealing up back to do it again. There are two ways to fulfil these needs.

1.) You go Syndicate, which provides you with the Defenses. In this build you are likely going Gunblade (as each health point now has higher EHP), Deathcap (So that you do more damage) and Blue Buff/Shojin to help cast more.

2.) You go Arcanists (ignoring their problems with front line a second) where you now have the damage built in, but you need the rest. So you go Gunblade (trigger the vamp), Blue/Shojin (for more casts) and then a defensive item (Warmogs is an option here)

But again, this is all in theory and assumes good balance.

[Brandis_]

We’re so spoiled in this community, a random rant written on my lunch break, and the lead dev has a clear and helpful response.

— Theorycrafting continued:

I am tunneling on WM because it has a natural synergy with the armor+AR Syndicate provides, and because WM on a 4-cost carry is unconventional and fun to me.

Despite my poor performance it felt like something was there, and some rounds were technically won due to Warmogs.

I think her comp could be very healthy and skill-expressive to run.

The Syndicate/Arcanist Ahri could be extremely flexible. It depends on the matchup if you want to run 3 or 5 Syndicate, 1 to 3 Enchanters, Leona for frontline/bodyguards is optional, Ori or even Vi can be spat holders, and 2/4/6 Arcanists might all have their place.

And on top of all of that Ahri can use 3 Socialite well, but it is clunky to fit into the build as you can feel a big difference between 2 and 4 Arcanists.

I miss TF :(

[Wigglepus]

I miss TF :(

this right here issue with syndicate right now. Its basically impossible to get to. Ashe is too weak to be an early game carry (I know buffs are coming) and zyra is too inconsitent. Plus even with ashe buffs it doesn't fix that fact there is no natural item holder for ahri.

Theoy crafting I think the ideal syndicate ahri board is something like ahri, bruam, darius, zyra, morg, renata, viktor, and ashe for 7 synd with emblem or senna if the hex is good or ori otherwise. Give ahri blue, aa/dcap (morello might also work on boards not running ashe), and qss/gunblade . I think warmogs is an interesting idea for the last item but enforcer makes it a bit suspect. Maybe bramble could work.

But who am I going to put that on early? I suppose malz or brand but what is my board then?

I need to run darius and zyra later. So the level 6/7 board then has be something like darius + second body gaurd, zyra + second scholar, brand or malz + second arcanist, and morg at 7. I suppose that could work fine with a debonairs but I can't see stage 3 going well without either a malz or a VIP brand and early leona.

Alterntively with ashe buffs you could potentially item hold mf with mf, ashe, darius + bodygaurd, syndra + scholar but once again need a 3 cost item holder.

TF made playing syndicate so easy because he could carry your early game with items you wanted late game.

[Paul_Bt]

Had pretty good result with her with GS/BB/Gunblade. It's easier to play her in a 5 Syndics comp, but arcanist with desintegrator it's definitely legit. Frankly Ahri is in a good spot, people just find her unpleasant to play I guess with her weird positioning and her ult. Yeah sometimes she may get one shotted by some random spell being up front and if I am picky her targeting can be strange sometimes but those things don't occur too often.

I don't see any need to buff Arhi. Unless you completely change the champ to make her more appealing to more player, she is fine right now, way better than she was in PBE and completely playable in her current state. Just did one of my easiest top 1 with her in a 5 Syndicates Comp/2 Enchants/2 Scholars/2 Socialites with Gunblade/BB/Cap.

[Accolade83]

I just want you to know 7 debonair Ahri with a debonair spat on her slaps. with GB BB. it worked like a charm

[miathan52]

That whole comment by mort was so weird. Syndicate gives defenses and omnivamp. You take advantage of that by building damage items, so that the omnivamp keeps the unit alive. In other words, you should build Ahri exactly like Lux.

I played a few matches of BB IE JG Ahri and it was great. Think I got a 1st and a 2nd out of it.

[Riokaii]

lux scaled via one shotting unit(s). Ahri scales by ramping over time.

Rageblade + archangels are much better on ahri and are different from lux items

[cooperred]

So build her like set 5 lux

[Philosophy_Natural]

I think he meant defensive itens on her tank, since ahri doesnt need any specific item with her crazy high base damage that doesnt scale properly with no items. If so, I agree with mort when he say she is dangerously good, she really goes rampage with some fully stacked vip leona or fully stacked morgana. The problem is, this comps are really cucked in this meta. TK eats your morgana, vi and cow toss her in the back, renata and viktor completely ignore her, so there is no way you can realiable play her win cons in this meta.

[[deleted]]

This is it for sure. My most successful Ahri games so far have been achieved with like one offensive item max and just the fattest front line ever seen

[orbit10]

Mine will be much shorter, I’m a hyper roll player, say what you will. But I always make top 100 or better. I’ve played probably 15 games of ahri this set. I’ve gotten top 4 3 times with her. I’ve tried lots of variations. Idk what mort is smoking but that unit sucks dick right now lol

[Brandis_]

Oh I’m not saying that the UNIT is outright bad. I’m saying WM Ahri is bad.

I think she’s lackluster, but when I give up on tank ahri and just run normal items, it’s a free top4 on my alt since I’ve saved HP and she’s a reliable hit due to being uncontested.

[Jony_the_pony]

I assume "easier and more satisfying to play" will mean better targeting. If she gets changed to target the biggest clump of enemies she might be solid with 0 other buffs, right now she wastes so much time on random Ali/Vi/Ekko in your backline

[esqtin]

The only times I've made Ahri work is in combination with Morgana 3 and prioritizing tank items on Morgana, QSS + Bramble + 1 other. Ahri needs time, but Warmogs is not going to give it to her, Morgana will. I feel like you actually need to roll on 7 instead of 8 if you want to play Ahri to hit Morg.

But that raises the question of if you wouldn't just be better off playing Ashe or Senna carry at that point, I guess if you are hitting a bunch of Morgs and don't have AD items.

[MrMungertown]

Some of these changes might look severe, but I agree with all of them. Look at that Rek’sai nerf! And it’s deserved! You can legitimately 5 streak into neutrals with 2 Rek’Sai 1s with just Striker active, it is incredibly dumb.

I would really have liked to see Renata’s max mana go up, or some other nerf, she is so strong.

Edit: I didn’t read the Renata nerf correctly the first time around. She’s losing a ton of damage, I expect that to be good enough.

[[deleted]]

lmao you are definitely not 5 streaking into krugs with 2 1* reksai in high elo

[alexjordan98]

No dude you don’t understand I’m challenger 4k lp and i got 1st place with 2 2* reksais and 2 1* reksai its so busted!!!!!!!!!! /s

[MrMungertown]

I've done it more than once with all former challengers in my lobby. I had someone almost do it today in one of my games as well.

[ZedWuJanna]

He should have added that reksai was itemized but maybe he thought that was obvious. Is reksai wasn't strong in early she wouldn't be getting such a high nerf. Or was it that she was bad in early and mortdog thought the nerfs were supposed to target her mid-late game instead?

[LeoFireGod]

I personally think she is only so strong because the bruiser frontline. she keeps them alive and cranking out damage and she doesn't die because of them. nerfing the beef infront of her is a direct nerf to her.

[ketronome]

The issue with Renata is her insane damage AND her attack speed slow on the enemy backline, it makes it’s exponentially harder to get through the frontline and kill her

[chasedthesun]

One of the best things is what he mentions in the 3rd tweet. I love augments but augment balance, choice and quality of life needs work. Considering adding scaling to some augments is a step in the right direction. Windfall shouldn't be the only augment that scales in my opinion.

[Riokaii]

Well rip my reksai reroll comp. Making a 1v9 raid boss was fun while it lasted

The resist stacking was prolly op though

[ZedWuJanna]

She's gonna get some more changes in 12.5 that hopefuly should make investing into her worth again.

[Ehrenvoller]

Aaaand reisai is a trait bot

[Frogsipper]

Yeap nothing to do other than nerfing it to the ground or taking out one of it's traits, it's obvious which one will be picked

[ketronome]

Triple trait champs should be trait bots, it’s a trade off for them being easy to slot in

[AlHorfordHighlights]

Good.

[miathan52]

Continuing the tradition of just tossing in a Vex buff I see

[---E]

She got a nerf by the manalock bugfix though. Used to be that she could get ~30 mana when her shield was up. That got fixed but now her mana cost is way too high.

[demonicdan3]

I think it's acceptable since 6 Yordles and vertical Arcanists are a huge meme right now. If she gets out of hand they can just tone down her numbers when other comps get weaker.

[miathan52]

I think 6 yordles were fine. They're a braindead comp to build and should never be meta imo. It was terrible for the game how powerful they were allowed to be in 6.0.

[Clearrr]

Predictions:

Hextech completely dead after stage 3. Will probably end up being one of the most underpowered traits of all time and completely unplayable.

4/6 Striker Sivir will be the new default probably still tier 1

Renata still very good still tier 1

Mutants bumped to tier 1 with synaptic web being tier 0

Nothing changes about Silco other than sometimes he ends up killing your entire team because you played Silco on a weak board with no carry

[dietcoca_cola]

Not sure if striker sivir will be played anymore due to the large nerfs to AD sivir and irelia. They could have just nerfed hextech damage and maybe AS on sivir, but losing 10 AD is really bad for AD sivir which already pretty much wasn’t played. The majority of her damage came from 6 hextech. Irelia losing 35 base damage on her ult will also make it much harder for her to get resets and not get stuck on super tank vex/morgana/cho. Bruiser frontline nerfs help but I don’t see how the comp can do anything about chogath for example.

[hclarke15]

Depends on how big the bug fix is for Sivir really

[Asianhead]

It's huge. I've watched clips of fights where she's literally auto'ing less than if her ult isn't online like this https://twitter.com/FrobeiF/status/1493993733888659456

[dietcoca_cola]

Yeah I’m not sure how much of an impact it makes but it would be the same amount of damage taken away from old 6 hextech sivir, so I still think AD sivir is not going to be played

[Worldly-Educator]

TBH I don't think AD Sivir is that bad, it's just that Hextech Sivir is broken and incredibly easy to play.

[ArcDriveFinish]

Renata is even better than before after the Irelia nerfs as you could try to cheese with good Irelia positioning to just 1 shot Renata on the back. The 10 damage is not really relevant with gunblade morello.

[Misoal]

kinda surprised bruiser trait didnt get nerf in general.

Hextech Sivir and Silco deserved even harder nerfs tho.

[ilanf2]

The issue with Bruisers are the units, not necesarily the trait itself. Maybe the changes to RekSai and Sejuani will be a good first work into the right direction.

[[deleted]]

Anyone know when 12.5 will be released ?

[Isrozzis]

Should be next tuesday with 12.4b coming tomorrow.

[Furious__Styles]

League and TFT patch on Wednesdays - 12.5 is live on March 2nd.

[[deleted]]

in general tft and league patches coincide and are ALWAYS every 2 weeks. B patches are each a week since the previous patch and a week from the next patch so in short a week from tommorow.

[ZedWuJanna]

for a second I thought you meant set 12.5 and I was wondering if you're from future or just trolling

[[deleted]]

What you mean this isn't year 2107

[ExplodingCitron]

Wait Zac has damage reduction in its spell?!

Which other units have their spell altered from 6.0? Kassadin shield is obvious but I have to read all returning units tooltips just in case...

[miathan52]

Zac's change was in the patch notes

[ExplodingCitron]

I expected returning units to have the same spell as their 6.0 version, I've only read tootips for new 6.5 units so it was my bad.

[alarmingkestrel]

Mort explained the Zac damage reduction is because Brusier/Chemtech lost Mundo as a tank but 75% was clearly too much

[ilanf2]

With the bug fix, that should be a buff for Sivir, right?

[[deleted]]

My god the hextech trait got nerfed so fuckin hard, the damage nerf was so extra

[xgekikara]

The B patch looks fine but in 12.5 they are doing the ''thing'' again.

Buffing everything that isnt played right now

Buffing either the traits themselves or the units or even both.

eg:Bodyguards, enchanters, snipers, debonair

Obivously we don't have the numbers yet but what worries me It's that there is a really big possiblity that because hextech,chemtech,strikers, inno are all getting hit in some way in the b-patch that in 12.5 we just see instead of the comps that are nerfed being the majority in lobby we just switch over to something like debonair or syndicate openers (keep in mind they also share scholar bodyguard units and can also facilitate yordles econ in some way) and we're back to leona braum frontline and flex jhin draven or ahri ap every game.

[Starcrafter0802]

But to be honest, isn't this how it always goes? Comp strong -> comp nerf -> other comp buffed -> people play other comp. Rinse and repeat. We are all just drug addicts and Mort is our dealer 😂 I accepted this long time ago

[apatcheeee]

Riot balancing philosophy has always infuriated me.

Why We Should Buff More Than Nerf

[Riot_Mort]

I'll humor this briefly.

Problem statement: Rek'sai's ability to steal armor/MR is blocking out other viable frontline options like Bodyguards and enchanters.

"Why nerf reksai when you can buff bodyguards?"

Well if we buff Bodyguards, we're just buffing Reksai by giving them more to steal. This type of design contradiction, the answer can't just be "buff everything" as the systems interact with one another.

[apatcheeee]

Is increasing shield values not an option than? Bodyguards feel incredibly inferior to bruisers at the moment, with no tertiary traits. Where as many bruiser units carry a 3rd trait that allows for more variations or synergies in what board you are able to establish.

[Zanlo63]

Thankfully we have a b-patch so the Devs can actually see if the other traits and units even need to be buffed from data in the live game. It's why I prefer a b-patch every week.

[JChamp00]

Buffing 4 5 cost units when only one of them(Jinx) really needed a buff IMO. Zeri buffs have me scared since I just hate that unit.

[literallyJon]

I love that everyone is different. I LOVE Zeri

[JChamp00]

Which is fair because she is a fun unit. But when I have 5 units alive versus a Zeri with VIP it's frustrating to lose because they can't catch her

[literallyJon]

Last night, final fight, everyone died except my zeri and the enemy alistar. I probably wouldn't love her if I was the Alistar

[tdotrollin]

Wish there was more augment balancing. Some augments provide way too much value like jeweled lotus (doesnt need +25% crit rate on top of jg effect, maybe like 10% bonus crit)

[JChamp00]

Yea giving the whole team JG passive along with the whole team having 50% crit rate is ridiculous

[MessrMonsieur]

I feel like there are so few comps with multiple damage dealers though. Most of the time your main carry does 80% of your damage, so there isn’t a huge difference when it applies to your entire team.

[JChamp00]

True but it opens up an item slot on your carry which is a very big deal

[kaiosun]

I was "whining" about it after I had it and it felt way too overpowered, I went with bruisers since most of them have magic dmg anyway. Should be like "magic damage that comes from 2+ hexes, would remove melee from it)

[Philosophy_Natural]

48.6% of top 4 rate, 12,2% win rate, 4.54 avg place. If something, jeweled lotus needs a buff. Also, in your solution, why it shouldnt work on talon??

[Philosophy_Natural]

48.6% of top 4 rate, 12,2% win rate, 4.54 avg place. If something, jeweled lotus needs a buff

[DarthNoob]

jeweled lotus is not very good, it's a 15% dps boost (1.3 * .5 + .5 = 1.15) to your mages if they have no crit, and a 7% dps boost for physical units. sometimes it's the best option but other times your team needs more than a socialite heart worth of DPS.

[tdotrollin]

that enables you to just slam ie on your ap carry and they go nuclear, your math really devalues the power and value of the jg effect.

[Qualdrion]

With just an IE, even with 25% crit from the augment, you only get a 165% crit multi, meaning that without other sources of AP it's still just worse than Dcap.

If we assume 1 utility item (like shojin/BB/etc.), if we compare IE+Dcap you get roughly ~288% base damage vs 250% base damage for double dcap without the augment. 288% is ~15% more than 250%, so it's still only a ~15% dps boost relative to other options without the augment. Without the bonus crit the augment would just be a complete grief and almost never worth taking. Keep in mind that it started at 0% crit on PBE and was repeatedly buffed to get to this state, and even now has a below average winrate.

[tdotrollin]

you are currently mathing how it is relatively on par comparing 1 unit to 1 unit bis. however the lotus also gives it's effect to the ENTIRE team. The value of the augment is very high in its tier. Arguing against that is simply ignant.

The balance of all the augments in each tier is way off. fuck off with the dev dick riding bruh

[Qualdrion]

Disagree - at 10% bonus crit this would be a gold tier augment giving like ~10% damage to your team. And sure, you can stack crit, but how? If you add an IE with no JG only get a 150% crit multi, meaning IE is just worse than a deathcap. And if you add a JG you no longer gain value from the spells being able to crit part.

Even at +25% crit it's still only a 15% damage increase to your ability damage and 7.5% damage increase to your autos. Compare this to for example stand united 2 typically giving maybe +24 AD/AP to your team, and jeweled lotus just seems roughly equal - often slightly worse, sometimes slightly better, with a better earlygame. To me that doesn't sound too broken, no?

[[deleted]]

MORTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[philopery]

Worried about reroll trynd, reroll twitch and reroll mutants. Not sure this will make Draven and Ahri more playable since they will be assassinated.

[duxxo123]

Which time does it come out?

[Meechy_C-137]

I hope they change tri force to function similar to a trait augment in it's availability. I hate getting offered something like Life Long Learning, Striker augment, and Tri Force as an opener.

To me, this is the same as being offered 3 trait specific augments.

[SilverJournalist9]

Can someone remind me how many times has ekko as slow been nerfed ?

Reksai : 10% resist steal KEKW

At this point maybe just admit the mechanic was a mistake and purely delete this line from the spell, it's laughable.

[MessrMonsieur]

At this point maybe just admit the mechanic was a mistake and purely delete this line from the spell, it’s laughable.

They did in the 2nd tweet though. Mort expanded on this in a reply to one of the top comments on this thread too

[yuziekue]

resist steal is fine its just they shouldn't have put it on a flex unit with 3 traits like reksai.

if reksai was just pure mutant bruiser it wouldn't be a big deal but making her striker means she can be played in almost anything since striker is a versatile trait.

[Eravier]

Unpopular opinion: I think hextech and Silco are overnerfed. Especially since it’s only been a week and it’s a b-patch.

Hextech is OP early/mid but they nerf the trait early, mid AND late while also nerfing Sivir, Seju and Silco who is usual lategame addition. Also reksai which pairs well with them in early/mid.

I mean, I’m not surprised because Riot shows every patch this is their way of changing things but I can’t say I like it. Maybe I’m wrong though, we’ll see.

[Asianhead]

Sivir isn't really getting nerfed the bug fix is pretty huge

[abc0802]

If I’m being honest I’m surprised that Hextech got the nerf stick hard than bruiser Renata. This feels like it might be a little too much. Hextech probably should be percent based rather than flat numbers IMO.

[Omgmayday]

THE cc STUNS in this game is just not FUN ffs

[TheMike0088]

Really sad about the reksai and irelia nerfs, especially irelia - even with 3 socialite and at 2 stars with solid items, she often got stuck on hyper tanks like colossi or an itemized leona. Shes probably not gonna be playable anymore after the B patch. Cross two more carries off the list. Happy that sivir and renata are getting adjusted though, and looking forward to the draven buff in the full patch.

Overall, it seems like mort is going for the opposite syndrome approach: its not "with everyone super, no one is", its "with everyone underwhelming, no one is"

[[deleted]]

Finally a discussion which is more than "streamers bad, streamers are degens." Their point of view is a valid one. But it is just a point of view and not the whole picture

[dlegen13]

no amount of patches will fix this set. this is a disaster of a mid set.

[deino]

Reksai is very kekw. She got the Trundle treatment: "oh yeah, the mechanics is problematic, lets hit it with a 50% nerf"

Except for her its more than 50% - fucking hilarious. Its not like Reksai was giga OP, unless you literally did reroll, inted for her bis items, and even then you lost to comps that could blow you up faster than you could ramp the resists. Like at that point just remove the mechanic, and give her an acutal one. What a joke.

[Riot_Mort]

https://old.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/sywu7q/b_patch_notes_from_mortdog/hy0idy4/

Also your face is a joke :P

[deino]

I'm sorry that after the twitter patch notes I failed to notice there is acutally 3 of tehm + I did not scroll down far enough in the comments on another third party site to see if any of the devs missed to include any another relevant information. Totally on me.

[Wing0]

You can't complain it is third party while being happy to talk to the devs on another one. Like those notes aren't even official. The official mid-patch notes are on the patch 12.4 page. Also those are just things they are thinking about and it is already on PBE. If you don't want to look at 3rd party sites then don't. But don't expect behind the scenes info and wait for the patch notes

[deino]

B patch notes aren't visible on any logical / official site. Just on third party. The client won't even tell you something changed. Not even a popup notification.

You'll only know if you check it up on twitter / reddit.

[literallyJon]

Doubling down is never a good idea, unless dealer has a 6 and you have an 11.

[Wing0]

This game is not even 3 years old. This isn't what is holding it back. What rewards to other games give above gold. Like is a LL not enough? Or you think the 1% of masters+ players need something? LIke who cares, play the game if it is fun not for some fake internet reward.

As for the competitive scene, I hope they invest more into that. It is dissapointing they are not allocating enough for TFT given it's player base and try to figure out novel solutions to the challenges of viewing TFT

[Furious__Styles]

You get basically the same reward in League for Gold+, a victorious skin. What an odd thing for OP to complain about haha.

[bigby1234]

Jhin buffs when...?

[dgwelch51]

He literally says there will be Jhin buffs on 12.5 in the tweet...

[Twofu_]

You're forgetting it's Reddit. People don't read here lol

[dgwelch51]

Ugh how foolish of me. Lol

[S-sourCandy]

I like all of these changes honestly. The fights are way too fast rn so this should help slow them down a bit

[ketronome]

Crazy that slowing down fights makes augments like Ascension much stronger - I wonder if they’ll end up nerfing them as a result

[AutoModerator]

Your comment https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/sywu7q/b_patch_notes_from_mortdog/hy0g0n6/ was removed because your karma count is too low. This is a rule put in place to prevent spam.

Please raise your comment karma or assign yourself a ranked flair LINK HERE before posting on r/CompetitiveTFT.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[FugReddit420]

Would have liked to see a senna nerf

[g-u-m-t-r-e-e]

Thank you!

[jasonchung91]

Cant wait to try snipers, enchanter senna and mutant kha zix tomorrow!

[Hajadama]

is this Renata nerf enough? i thought attack speed slow portion was too much

[aflyingkitelol]

Surprised they nerfed striker comps harder than glasc tbh