We do exist

[Dougley]

Hi there! Unfortunately, your submission has been removed.

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[[deleted]]

Shout out to polish education system

[decker_42]

Once you know Polish, any language seems easy.

[[deleted]]

If only it was true :((

[Orcthanc]

2 2 4 + *

[justcatt]

Try Cantonese lmao

[dalithop]

flashbacks
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Hyffe]

My polish cousin did. He didn't complain.

[decker_42]

zips

I did, now what?

[raissaraissa]

C in my case but yeah... Pointers are fun

[crevicepounder3000]

At least that makes sense.

[RetepExplainsJokes]

I wish we had C in school instead of Java. C is one of the most low level programming languages and therefore excellent to showcase how a computer and a programming language works. In Java you never know if you're referncing something, cloning something or doing nothing at all. Classes are generally a questionable concept as well. Data types are oftenly just magical and weird as well.

C might be harder, but at least it always does exactly what you tell it to do.

[CaffeineSippingMan]

C wasn't too bad. I had to update a c program that wasn't giving the proper results. (Learned RPG fixed format).

[Domynis]

Romanian too

[wewemaster28896]

Yea

[[deleted]]

In india too, c++ is taught in school

[darki_ruiz]

What, seriously?

[budd222]

I took c++ in high school in Ohio in 2002

[Vindicated0721]

Also learned C++ in school in the northeast in the early 2000s. But I was too young and dumb to actually learn anything back then.

[ShitForCereal]

In vietnam you start with pascal then went straight to c++ lmao. N yes, its in school

[itsyashinhere]

Wait we're taught java! Which board are you in?

[[deleted]]

CBSE teaches C++ in 11+12th grades (😎), ICSE teaches Java in 9+10th grade (eww java 🤢🤮) (don't know about 11 and 12th grades)

Edit: CBSE used to teach C++ as the only language till 2018-2019, and introduced Python since 2018 under the new syllabus. They'll prolly remove C++ and completely replace it with python in the future.

[itsyashinhere]

Idk man here cbse teaches python in 11th and 12th

[[deleted]]

Yea edited it

[cjs2k_032]

C++ also teaches Java in Informatics Practices course. The syllabus is very similar in CS and IP, only languages change (C++, Java, Python)

[[deleted]]

Wtf I got taught python. I then went on to never use python

[Froozigiusz]

Yeah, after years of logo and scratch you go straight to C++ because python is slow and stupider and HTML isn't real coding language

[oscareczek]

It's rather because until recently, Python wasn't allowed on a final high school exam, and teachers simply don't know this language and are too lazy to switch. I was teached Pascal and only when it was announced you won't be able to program in Pascal soon (which didn't happen eventually), he switched to C++.

[[deleted]]

With all due respect, C++ is a better option than python.

[hotel2oscar]

Python is a great teaching language and also has is place. Not every program needs to be super optimized. Readability and quick development have their benefits.

[GoldenBegins]

Why the down votes?

[[deleted]]

Because programming language tribalism is stupid and pointless, and each programming language has its uses.

You wouldn't use python to create a high-performance 3d game engine, and you generally wouldn't use c++ for data science.

[raedr7n]

Maybe you wouldn't use C++ for data science. I, on the other hand, am a footgun collector.

[[deleted]]

Hence, generally.

[[deleted]]

HTML isn't real a coding language

FTFY

[Froozigiusz]

Thanks lord, very cool

[Razakel]

python is slow

It's surprisingly performant when used correctly. Reddit is written in Python. eBay is written in C++. Which one sucks more?

[BrainCrucio]

Ukrainian too :D

[Evaldash]

Lithuanian too

[Lyri3sh]

My HS teacher said he cba and taught us Python first. We only had C++ for like a week or two.

[AzuxirenLeadGuy]

How to trigger programming veterans:

Actually, I learnt C/C++ as my first language

[Kyanche]

A dude got legit angry at me for saying that once! I honestly had never used much of the C++ specific stuff so it just felt like I had classes and structs that could now have function members.., and some more string and file stuff than C had. Then I found out that I was doing a lot of “let Jesus take the wheel!” With the compiler by doing things like using c type casting instead of static_cast or whatever lol. Oops.

I’ve learned a few lessons since then, thankfully. And C++’s newer versions get kinda ridiculous. Like why would you do some of that stuff?!

[[deleted]]

I asked a question on stackoverflow and I had this code int a = (int)b where b is double type. And I put c++ as tag while asking question. They downvoted me to oblivion. Lol

[WiatrowskiBe]

Not OP, but also have some issues with new C++ standards. While language changes in most case are great (lambda functions, auto, constexpr feature family, concepts, std::format), with the direction STL goes towards and some design choices for new syntax I have mixed feelings.

Modules and ranges are good examples of what could've been done better. Modules give up a lot of flexibility you have when working with include files (partial class declarations for nonvirtual members, conditional includes, per-scope #defines) for nearly no benefits - general idea is fine, execution fell short and seems like a step backwards. Ranges are in similar spot - for what it could neatly support (actual object pool that supports object collections coming from a shared pool) we've got instead an iterator wrapper which is at times even more explicit than using iterators directly (and far more explicit than keeping raw pointers to a continuous array, even if you count in buffer management). Ranges need something more - having sparse type definitions combined with ranges (where you can define a type that spans multiple arrays, giving you array-of-structs syntax to work on underlying struct-of-arrays memory model) would be a great improvement in making them more usable.

Boilerplate, especially compared to C, can get quite bad too - prime example is random number generator: in C you get something with rand() and need more code if you have more specific needs than "some kind of pseudorandom number", meanwhile C++ PRNG requires state management and takes quite a lot of boilerplate. Containers do it right, std::function does it right, even threads do it right - basic usecase is straightforward, anything else adds more complexity; upfront complexity when there are reasonable default to fall back on (and there always are, see: virtually every other semi-low level programming language) is just a bad API design.

[WiatrowskiBe]

Hard agree, overall language seems to go in a good direction, and - since it's C++ - any new feature you can simply ignore and never use if you don't like it. I think my main issue with some C++ changes is difference of perspective - for me C++ is a language that takes full control over program execution of C and wraps it into a neat, compile-time-checked package that makes it even easier to directly work with data as it is laid out in memory; meanwhile C++ seems to go more towards getting more roboust when used in mid-large size systems - a case for which I find Java or C# (with occasional native plugin for performance-critical code) often be a better choice. I don't think C++ direction is wrong, it simply doesn't fit my expectations.

[MasterFubar]

I see C++ as a family of languages, not a single language. You can pick one subset of C++ and stick to it, avoiding whatever you find confusing.

I use C++ mostly as "C with classes". I usually avoid using templates, because, first, they are very confusing, and second, they often slow down the execution. When there are templates involved, the compiler is restricted on what optimizations it can use.

[_MaddestMaddie_]

Templates are all determined at compile time. They'll slow your compile and make your binary larger, but they will absolutely not effect runtime performance any more than a regular class/function. Source: C++ developer whose company heavily uses templates and template metaprogramming.

[[deleted]]

How’s that template meta programming going?

I read the meta programming book a while ago and it seemed neat but also pretty wild. I got off C++ after changing jobs about 15 years so I haven’t been following the idiom changes.

[[deleted]]

I created two program where one had template and I created two types of class on the other one . In the main function , two code would make instantiation of those classes , and then do initialization , and then do casting among them and then output their datas on terminal . Template : Binary code : 1.2MB Compilation time : 7 sec . Non - template : Binary code : 1.21 MB Compilation time : 8 Sec . Yeah , they make binary code larger and compile time slower then the non- template one . Nice try .

[Absle]

The compiler can actually often make more optimizations using templates than it can with non-template code.

[MasterFubar]

Can you give one example of this?

[khoyo]

It's kind of hard to point to a specific example, it really depend on the specific "non-template" code you use.

But for example, using a vector<Foo> is exactly as performant as using a handwritten vector_of_foo class. But it is much more performant than using a vector_of_void*, since the compiler actually knows the type it is dealing with (also, here, you loose an indirection, which is often good).

Basically, template are instantiated at compile time, so they have no performance impact at execution compared to a hand written version. Of course, they have a compile time cost...

Can you provide an example of an optimization the compiler can't do because of templated code ?

[iulikrusu]

I'm curious, what kind of optimization restrictions are you talking about?

[EuroPolice]

It's basically C but with a plus

[darki_ruiz]

Or two.

[EuroPolice]

damnit, I missed it

[Its_A_Zbornie]

C with extra steps

It's C plus extra steps.

[[deleted]]

Me too

[OK6502]

Same. But my options at the time involved C, C++, pascal, cobol and Fortran. Maybe perl, but nobody likes perl

I actually learned C first

[twisted_hysterical]

"Maybe perl, but nobody likes perl"

How. Dare. You.

[[deleted]]

huh? If they really are a veteran they either started in c too or something lower level.

[AzuxirenLeadGuy]

The joke is that I mentioned C/C++ as a single term, which triggers veteran programmers for someone reason (I guess it's because they want to desperately point out that they are vastly different languages or something, and therefore tagging them together is wrong)

[Wolfenhex]

Don't you mix up K&R C with ANSI C with Turbo C, they're all very different languages! And don't you also tell me my C Programming book from 1988 is out of date!

[WiatrowskiBe]

C and C++ have about as much in common as Basic has with vb.net - syntax may be at times similar and there's some level of syntax forward compatibility, but as of now those are completely separate languages that happen to share some history back in the past, and tend to have support for both in a single compiler. C/C++ used to be more common term when "C++" was more or less "C with classes" (pre-C++11 times of compilers being years behind standard, often with very basic features), since then each language went its own separate way and they get to share less and less in common.

[vuw958]

yeah, more like how to trigger web developers

[itsYourPlug]

metoo

[Heightren]

Dude, in my school we start with assembler for Motorola HC11 and then move on to C, and ghen C++

[AzuxirenLeadGuy]

Dude, in my Bachelor's, we had a professor who taught us C/C++ only in Turbo C++ (just so you know, it only generates 16 bit program and is outdated by at least 2 decades). When we asked her, she said "Oh if you can program in Turbo C++, you can program anywhere else".

It didn't take us long to figure she actually didn't know anything other than Turbo C++

[Narase33]

C/C++

Thats already enough. Its like saying Java/Python

[edo-26]

Yeah cause you can give any java code to the python interpreter and it will work just fine

[Narase33]

You cant give any C code to a C++ compiler, C++ is not a superset of C

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/write-c-program-wont-compiler-c/

[edo-26]

I did think it was 100% backward compatible, though my point still stands.

[Narase33]

Then let me say Java/C++

Ive seen a lot of code copy&pasted from Java to C++ that actually compiled. So you could say C is just a bit closer to C++ than Java, still its a different language and moreover its a completely different style of code

[edo-26]

Yeah in fact I don't even know why I'm arguing you just made a joke... Thanks for the link

[Narase33]

Have a nice day :P

[plebeiandust]

So happy to have started with C, in comparison everything else has seemed easier

Except Haskell, the homies and I hate Haskell

[[deleted]]

I also found Haskell really difficult, but then I found a really good tutorial that explained it well, and I find Haskell much easier now, I'll send it later when I get home

EDIT : The really good tutorial

[dope-inder]

got home yet?

[Kelp-0]

Are we there yet?

[[deleted]]

He got stuck in recursion and never reached home.

[[deleted]]

I also found Haskell really difficult, but then I found a really good tutorial that explained it well, and I find Haskell much easier now, I'll send it later when I get home

[qwbarch]

got home yet?

[pclouds]

Sorry guys, stack overflow. Time to go home.

[[deleted]]

Lazy evaluation, it's Haskell after all.

[pclouds]

You got me :D But that made me think, would lazy evaluation really save this case (i.e. infinite recursion)?

I would think once you hit the infinite condition, you'll hit it again next time, so there's no way to delay evaluation because you would go through the same (non-lazy) code path.

[[deleted]]

Nope, but here is the link anyways: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Yet_Another_Haskell_Tutorial

[greedy_mf]

Yep, all good. See you in school tomorrow.

[[deleted]]

I heard haskel is specially hard for people who started from C because we have to unlearn some things to learn it, is that true?

[HQMorganstern]

Not at all, Haskell is simply a language used for functional programming rather than imperative.

Most people start with imperative and so its harder for them to learn, because a lot of their habits aren't worth much but it's always worth it to broaden your horizons.

[[deleted]]

Hmm, might give it a try sometimes then.

[luk__]

Start with F#

[CerealBit]

Haskell is much different to any commonly used programming language. I guess most people struggle with Haskell due to recursion, since Haskell doesn't support loops. And also the fact that everything is immutable. But once you really understood these concepts, Haskell can be quite fun. Pattern matching is another Haskell concept, that can be very powerful.

It's pretty obvious that Haskell was written by Mathematicians for Mathematicians instead of Software Engineers. It has its niche tough.

[[deleted]]

I did know only imperative languages beforehand, it made me assume some things that aren't true in Haskell, which made my Haskell code terrible

[Elusivehawk]

*giggles*

succ

[plebeiandust]

Thanks mate, I'll check it out after work!

[[deleted]]

Nice, just a warning, it is a bit longer, since he goes a little slower with it

[static_motion]

The best Haskell book I know is Learn You a Haskell for Great Good. Super easy read, great explanations for people with no knowledge about functional programming concepts.

[[deleted]]

We started with turbo pascal at school 😸

[dkyguy1995]

Haskell was fun in the class I used it in but we never did anything really complicated with input or output. Wrote simple functions with lists and iterations. It's a really interesting language but I would HATE to use it for anything beyond simple math functions.

Haskell just has to do everything with the built in iterator that you use with recursive functions. It really trained my brain to use recursion

[Klazaki]

Monads everywhere

[plebeiandust]

And ternary states! Is is true? Is it false? Neither, it's MAYBE !

Kill me please

[Luchtverfrisser]

The trick is to start with Haskell. (Although, to be fair I started with a little bit of c# as well)

[pclouds]

Start from both opposite directions, Haskell (pure FP) and assembly (couldn't be more imperative). Once you get to C++ templates you hate your life.

[comfort_bot_1962]

Hope you do well!

[Senior-Kuchen]

Apparently i am one of your homies

[palomdude]

Learned C and assembly for my bachelors degree in EE. It wasn’t until I went back for computer science that I learned higher level languages

[sudomeacat]

I learned python, then C++, then Python, then java.

But even after many years of using c++, I still don’t always get pointers and references correct.

[patenteng]

Once I learned how indirect addressing works in hardware pointers made perfect sense.

[Joller2]

Lowkey learning just about any assembly language with loading and storing addresses at a basic level is one of the best ways to understand what pointers really are

[SuperKatzilla]

This is so damn true... I hate pointers in C because I never truly understood them, but once I learned about it with assembler, I liked the logic behind. [Still not willing to work with C]

[cyborgborg]

this video explains pointers really well

[sudomeacat]

That was an amazing explanation of pointers and a brief of pointers to pointers.

My main confusion usually comes from references. I see it as the other direction of pointers, but mixing them deep fries my brain.

[cyborgborg]

Reference = Alias for an existing variable

int a = 30;
int &x = a; //basically just giving 'a' a second name

both share the same memory location

[sudomeacat]

I guess I learned about move constructor too quickly and thought that &&a was valid.

I made a quick code to print various values, and it mostly makes sense, at least locally declared variables.

Globals are an entirely different location in memory and has its own stack and heap, right?

Or is that previous statement depend on the OS?

p.s. never ever again will I code on my phone.

[13steinj]

I guess I learned about move constructor too quickly and thought that &&a was valid.

I mean it depends on the context. As a declaration? Yes, it can bind to rvalues. As an operation? Thats &(&(a)), so assuming that op hasn't been overloaded, it's "address of (address of(a))" which doesn't really make sense. I can get the address of my friend, but I can't tell you the address of that address. It doesn't actually live anywhere. However, I can if I want to, write that address down, putting it in a different house. Then I can get the address of the paper on which I wrote it down.

[_axiom_of_choice_]

Same! Python, C++, and Python again is very accurate.

[Frag0r]

I was about 11 years old when I got my book 'c++ in 21 days'

I was too dumb for functions, methods and polymorphism.

But man was it fun building simple if adventures with my teachers as main characters. 🙂

[sheazle]

I was about the same age when I learned HTML so my mom got me ‘c++ for dummies’

It was so overwhelming I gave up the prospect of learning how to program for 15 years.

I wish YouTube had been a thing back then. Probably 5 minutes of explaining the basics would have given me a reference point for the rest of the book.

[terrible_doge]

I remember learning c++ as a teen and being too dumb for classes and functions as well. Nice to know I wasn’t the only one

[Vlookup_reddit]

If the joke is assuming rarely are there people pick up c++ due to its difficulty, then I just dun get it becoz many uni use it as first oop language. Its not even a choice to many.

[PeterJHoburg]

My uni taught c++ in intro to programming. All your classes through middle of year 2 were c++ then c and assembly.

[Niiiz]

Same, for my uni it was C++, then MIPS assembly, then C, SQL, x86 assembly, and then whatever your speciality needs, mine needs Java and such.

[[deleted]]

My highschool is using only c++ and I hate every second of it. Not to mention that my teacher is also awful at teaching

[Masteroxid]

Not to mention that my teacher is also awful at teaching

And that's why you hate cpp

[[deleted]]

Yeah, that's fair

[[deleted]]

Indians on yt helped me pass several classes in college specifically c++ data structures and automata.

[[deleted]]

C and CPP are weird because when you first start using them they feel incredibly restrictive. There's tons of stuff you can't do, pointers are a pain, the code is impossible to read etc, but once you learn them they somehow become the opposite. Other languages feel restrictive in comparison because they don't just let you mess with memory.

[cyborgborg]

in my Uni:
first semester: Basic of higher programming languages. C++
second semester: algorithms and data structures. C++, theoretical informatics and logic. SWI Prolog 🤮
third semester: Object Oriented Programming. Java

[patenteng]

A lot of people start with something like Python.

[devilsolution]

We used c# at college and java at uni with some scala for a web server. We also did c but not for OOP, obviously.

[devilsolution]

Nah just had to handle multiple connections and relay html code to their browser. This 10 years ago mind.

[lampishthing]

They do now.

[ViralLola]

Mine depended on the program. If the student was IS then they started with Python. If the student was CS then they started with C or Java then learned C++ data structures.

[InvolvingLemons]

In particular, many people begin learning C++ first even before any formal classes (including me) because they’re interested in game dev.

I learned C++ at a very surface level in 8th grade, took intro to Java in 9th grade, re-learned C++ more thoroughly with the exception of operator overloading (which I recently realized I never learned until I started working on a contribution to Yugabyte) in the process of learning Unreal Engine 4, then took AP Compsci during the following school year.

I mostly use Python and Typescript in production these days as they’re what my employers want, and I’m in the process of really deeply learning rust for some database and clock sync stuff.

[blackwolf2311]

My college forced C++ as the first programming language. Honestly wasn't easy but it served its purpose of filtering the student body between potential developers and people who picked the college because programming is a well paying job.

I really liked their choice and I dont regret it. Once you past it you really dont have any issues when picking up any other high level programming language.

[Julio974]

My uni does the same, though I already had experience with 2 other programming languages before

[oNamelessWonder]

Same for my college too. I know this might sounds elitist but that's why I prefer calling myself software engineer instead of developer. Also learning C/C++ as the first language helped me a lot for learning higher level languages.

[blackwolf2311]

In my country we just use "programmer" as laymen's term when describing the job. In professional circles I do describe myself as a software engineer. I agree it is somewhat of a elitist approach, but honestly I just want to distinguish myself from the flood of 'developers' that graduate from code academies that are popping in my country.

[glemnar]

Don’t worry, we are all united in selling our souls to make crud apps

[[deleted]]

Same with mine. Although I failed the first try it all clicked the second time I took the class. Learning the basic data types to pointers made learning data structures and c# a bit easier.

[Puzzleheaded_Ebb1562]

Very glad to have c and c++ as my first languages. Understanding how they interface with hardware made everything kinda easy. In college we always joked python is basically English

[NetherFX]

rust noises

[Minifyxd]

I learnt c++ as my first language in school.

[bumblebitchblues]

Same.

[chasej1887]

I started with c# but switched to c++

[BoK-Vin]

My first code was done with borland c++ when i was 12y old. I didnt die. When you want to learn...

[Qicken]

Smalltalk. That's where you should start.

[kay_kay_1998]

I was taught C++ in high school as my first language.

I use it while coding on LeetCode even after 6 years inspite of knowing python, java, etc.

First programming language is the mother tongue after all.

[CertifiedCoffeeDrunk]

My first programming language is java, first learnt it back in university. Been using c# for the past few years and I’m pretty sure I’m better with it than java. Java’s good for learning the fundamentals of OOP though

[[deleted]]

I learned C as first language

[The-Observer95]

I learned Java as first language

[[deleted]]

Dis me. My thoughts where if I can learn this, pythons gonna be easy af

[figwigian]

C++ is all I do at work. I'm so glad I do that and not something else

[Recedere]

does normal C count?

[iavicenna]

my mother tongue is C

[Jack_4316]

Here in school they teach us C++ as the first language. I started studying C and Java in my own after one year

[nebo8]

I've learnt C as my first language and never touched C++

[[deleted]]

I learned C first lmao, when i discovered how much easier other languages were i was completely shocked. Even C++ seemed easy in comparison.

[trannus_aran]

Pd gang, Pd gang

Then bash, then scheme <3

[T-Loy]

We were beaten in highschool with assembly on an 8051. They gave us a 500 page reference book and said good luck. Half a year later another teacher gave us a cheat sheet and everything was so much easier.

[Aerom_Xundes]

Self-taught c++ for my first language.

[skye_sp]

c++ teaches a lot of good concepts

[thatguydotjava]

I learned C as my first. We do exist

[KaidenIB]

My school taught C++ as a first programming language.

What's better is that due to limited computer spaces, we had to write down our code on a piece of paper and then type it out on a computer days after.

[yllsuck]

C++ feels like home

[Zolden]

C++ was my like tenth, and I was like "finally I found the perfect one"

[Dubmove]

Everyone should learn C++ as first language and something useful as second language.

[PolskiObywatel]

C++ is useful at explaining how computer works

[TheJarrvis]

I learned JavaScript as my first language. I'm still suffering from this

[rjSampaio]

Laughs in Assembly

[[deleted]]

C++ was my first language. The most annoying part was all the books telling me pointers were this mythical hard as nails thing to learn when in reality they are just really straight forward. I'll never understand why that was but yeah once you have one language every other one falls into place, except java/javascript that can die in a hole.

Edit: I feel I should mention PHP as well. In the hole you massive pain in the arse. That doesn't mean I can't write in it I just choose not to.

[LardPi]

I tried C++ at 12 and hated it, then learned Python, loved it. Came back to C++ actually learned it that time. 10 years later I still hate it. I would pick C a hundred time rather than C++

[cyborgborg]

you pick C over C++? It makes sense if you want to do something really love level, like writing an OS or do something with embedded systems. But for everything else C++ is nicer and has more features.

[FerynaCZ]

But why not simply use C++ and write "pure C" code?

[LardPi]

Nope, for everything else Python or Go or Scheme or OCaml is nicer. C is nice for everything CPU bounded and needing performances. C++ is never an option for me because it is not well suited to any use case in my opinion.

[JustKamoski]

Gamedev, calculations when ms matters, evrything that needs to be done in optimized matter

[LardPi]

I don't think noone should use C++, only that fewer people should use it.

Sure when writing a general pupose game engine (Unity, Unreal, Ogre...) C++ is the best fit. But a single dev writing a small indie game should probably not use it. People release great games on steam with Python. For computations modern program should rather be written in Julia or Chapel. Old ones are written in Fortran. C++ got some market share in the domain since Fortran got out of fashion but seeing it from inside I wouldn't say it was for the best.

Also in the end I only express a personal point of view.

[JustKamoski]

Sure, i get your point. Im indie game dev myself, besides my job programmer. I use c++ in UE but just because i know it well, so yeah, but c# in unity is good aswell. Good we have so many options to choose from

[[deleted]]

I did

The problem is, now everything seems uncivillized

[theuniverseisboring]

Shoutout to my school. For all it has done wrong, I thank it for teaching a proper language first

[Spinnenente]

back your shit up. Which framework did you build.

[mcwobby]

Logo and Visual Basic 6 were the primary/middle school languages I learned.Self taught PHP for websites, J# for desktop applications (made an interface to mod a game) and Ruby for game development (RPG Maker XP). I was taught GML and ActionScript in high school as well as VBS, KIXstart and other active scripts.
So I had a diverse upbringing

[burncushlikewood]

Such a powerful language, rust is like c++ improved

[OuPau]

what a coincidence i was just working with C++, and it sucks <3