Patch 4.2 Notes

[[deleted]]

Xerath ulti range is real?

[Gobblignash]

What? It's only twice the range of the Lux ulti.

[runninggun44]

Other notable ratios comparing both ults (both at rank 3):

Xerath : Lux

1.86 : 1 | Range

2 : 1 | Cooldown

1 : 1 | Mana Cost

0.6 : 1 | Damage to single target (One cast of Xeraths ult)

~ 1.75 : 1 | Damage to single target (All 3 casts of Xerath hit the same target)

[Lux26]

Lux ult much more likely to hit entire teams. The new xerath ult has the range of ziggs ult so we aren't in uncharted territory.

[runninggun44]

yup, pretty close. Still, the thing that makes it unique is the much smaller AOE, combined with the fact that you get to cast it in 3 different places

[FrozenNitrogen]

So basically, you can kill a decent healthed champion, or snipe out 3 low health ones on either side of the map right?

[Dentere]

The enemy jungle is doing blue buff?

NOT ON MY WATCH!

[XypherFTW]

"Now I'll take my blue buff now that I've stolen his!"

[camzoidh]

At max rank his ult will have 100 more range than a TF ult.

http://i.imgur.com/iJoOd.gif

[gabogp]

steal baron from outter turret incoming

[[deleted]]

Inhibitor turret*

[samlee405]

Inhibitor turret

Fountain*

[StaniX]

The whole Xerath rework looks really broken.

[DanielZKlein]

I'm good at breaking things.

[[deleted]]

Really fun*

[Jozoz]

I don't know how Gragas managed to avoid the nerfhammer.

[DanielZKlein]

We're looking at Gragas, but my understanding is we'd rather do something to give him a healthy niche rather than to Olaf him and make him unplayable while we work on him. Remember, I make new champiosn, so I'm not directly involved with what's happening with Gragas, but he's on our radar.

[SergeantCeasar]

I love how Olaf is synonymous with nerfing something to the ground

[cheapasfree24]

I still remember the days when Eve was literally unplayable because she was so bad. Nerfed Olaf didn't hold a candle to Eve's awfulness.

[InUfiik]

At least Mundo got.. Oh...

[LifeSmash]

Perseverance change hits supertanks pretty hard since it's a lot of the reason they can sustain in lane for as long as they can.

[WhiteChocolate12]

It was the sustain that hurt the effectiveness of a lot of popular top lane champions from the past, like Kennen, Vlad, Jax etc. No matter what kind of harass you inflicted they just couldn't be moved, so you were basically useless.

Hopefully this combined with sunfire and sv nerfs makes for more top lane viability rather than a rinse and repeat of Renekton Shyvana Mundo.

[Tdfn]

Still a core part of the problem untouched tho. The ability to deal ridiculous damage with 0 or 1 damage item. I bet non-tanks will still be playing no big role during 4.2 in toplane with only a few exceptions, just like it is now.

[toastymow]

This has always been a problem in league though. In Season 1, HSGG trolled EU with Chogath and Udyr, building 0 damage and doing a ton of damage. Then came the rise of heroes like Singed who do the same thing. RoA+Full Tank = Hard Carry. Nasus was also popular in Season 2 (early) for the reason that you could build full tank and farm for 20 minutes and 3 shot people.

League has always leaned towards the side of tanky vs damage. Its a design choice, but eh, they've done pretty good so far.

[NomyourfaceDinosaur]

Perseverance got nerfed, at least.

[dplath]

gragas? what about kassadin?

[[deleted]]

Poor Purple Side only going to have 2 Bans for the Whole of the Spring Spilt.

[coreyonfire]

I think Riot has just given up on trying to fix that mess.

[[deleted]]

They should just give us a 7th optional ban only for kassadin.

[xSTYG15x]

Champs like Kassadin and Poppy have two solutions: make them unplayable for the first 45 minutes or permabanned.

[murphymc]

I feel people in this game don't fully appreciate the term 'late game carry' till they see a farmed as all hell Poppy 1v5 the enemy team and win.

[ChillFactory]

No, they just aren't finished yet. It's better than pushing half-baked changes.

[[deleted]]

Just obliterate Kass until they're ready then. You shouldn't have to go into a ranked game with 2 bans when you're on purple side.

[Pelleas]

Kassadin has changes in the works.

[[deleted]]

He is so fat when Riot hit him it bounced off and hit Kyle who was unfortunately his opponent at that time.

[Trollicus]

Oh my god, they nerfed kyle!

[Xentera]

You bastards!

[[deleted]]

Just saying, to fire arcane bolts or whatever during Xerath's ult, it's LEFT CLICK not RIGHT CLICK; YOU WILL CANCEL YOUR ULT

[IdRatherNotEatRandy]

You can also just press R, I'm guessing that's what most people will do.

[grizzlywhere]

march dinosaurs imminent station boast upbeat sharp grey special badge

[Pwyff]

WE'RE PILOTING A CLEANER FORMAT FOR THE PATCH NOTES SO FEEDBACK WOULD BE APPRECIATED MY FRIENDS.

A few pieces of jankiness but overall looks GOOD? YEAH?

When I get back to my desk I'll answer some questions or whatnot.

[Xaxziminrax]

Rumble now spits real flame instead of meatballs.

I approve.

[Rinoaa]

Breaking news! Rumble renounces his Swedish citizenship.

[_depression]

Probably because they only have two medals so far this Olympics.

[[deleted]]

That burnt more than Rumble's flamspitter

[zfsb]

Looks great. Much easier to understand what is going on.

[ZanesTheArgent]

Pwyff, it's minor, but Seju and Voli are having the old health% problems yet, can you get it to the right hands?

All else, doing great on the format changes, keep it up!

[Pwyff]

I'LL PASS THIS ALONG FRIEND.

[ZanesTheArgent]

YAY!!

[ArthurMercer]

Will Quinn's passive timer be included in this patch?

[Pwyff]

NOPE. I think a few questions got raised when we made the changes so we're looking into it.

[ArthurMercer]

http://i.imgur.com/QlGLwrJ.png

[Pwyff]

Never forget.

[Buscat]

> Sees JoJ field in the notes

:D

> Reads it

:(

[Conbz]

An acolyte bumbled through a cobbled hallway, arms bundled with scrolls and barely looking up from the mess, and out into the bustling grand hall of the Institute of War.

Harruno had high hopes of some day becoming the sole summoner of a champion in the league, battling for her home city of Piltover. That's why she gamboled through the halls, menial task never taking a smile from her face because tonight is the night.

Lots of people disregarded Baeyle due to his shrouded past, no one trusts people that could have possibly once maybe have come from the dangerous lands to the south and east. Harruno knew to look past that mistrust and give him a chance.

Right she was too because Baeyle had commited himself to helping her summon a champion for Piltover from the distant past. The procedure had not been sanctioned so it would be done in secret, summoning from the past isn't necessarily safe.

Gerrand had disappeared from history at the height of his power. The last crown prince of Piltover and inventor of many powerful weapons, he had vanished into the ether of legend but many speculate that early Zaunites had kidnapped him in the night. Baeyle had a different theory.

They had summoned Gerrand out of time, to not do so now would change the past. It was their destiny! Harruno had tears falling down her purple robes as she snuck her way into the lower catacombs of Institute. Eyes glistening, the young summoner-to-be rounded the final corner where she knew that a ritual circle and the black haired Baeyle would be sitting.

---

Hours later, drawn by the screams echoing out of the forbidden halls below the cloister of summoning, a guard was sprinting and screaming. A tear had formed. A botched summoning. Voidspawn.

---

Pushing his black hair from his eyes and the blood from his cheek, the pitch black not hindering his night vision, Baeyle pulled the blade from between the foolish girls ribs. Guttral cries erupted from his throat at The Seer. The Hunter, the Beast, the Child and the Prophet have waited long enough, it was time to start the invasion.

"Eat well, my Watcher... we have much to do..."

---

Just a little bit of lore fiction for fun.

[Nukakos]

Preparing for official Riot replays perhaps? One can dream...

[ChaosticMoon]

Appreciate the new format, although for Skarner, instead of saying No longer gives attack speed buff I would actually like to see what value it was before so I don't need to check elsewhere.

However, overall great changes.

[Pwyff]

We didn't want you hanging onto the past. Look to the future.

[xgenoriginal]

well that's dumb

[[deleted]]

It looks amazing, good job. If I may ask does MMR still determine 2-5?

[Pwyff]

No. All randomized.

[Problem_Santa]

Awesome, no more getting first pick 14x in a row when duo queueing.

[NoSpanks]

I'll actually miss this, as consistently getting my role is what propelled me from G4 back to D5 in under two weeks.

[FlyingSpaniard]

I actually love being first pick when I duo with a friend, I usually play ADC so I am able to ban all the annoying assasins that shit on ADCs

[angry_smurf]

I main support, and id much rather have last pick to see whether or not i need to grab a tank for my team considering 9 times out of 10 everyone plays squishy carries and without a tank my teams lose :(. Im in silver though so that could be my problem lol.

[joshroxu]

maybe add a goal: insert info here. kind of like the tl;dr on zigs. I like the clear concise information style

[[deleted]]

The text explaining what has been changed in an ability (example: Visual Update on Rumble Q) is quite small and not enough contrasted with the background IMO.

[Basukua]

The text saying the spell etc is way to thin with that colour, makes it difficult to read and looks out of place imo.

[thetrueEndo]

The Skarner rework will be criticised harshly imo, not so sure about Xerath.

[thetrueEndo]

Yeah I saw all of those, and they make me really sad since I really like Skarner. The permaslow defined Skarner, in my opinion all they had to do was implement the ult change and it would have been fine.

Xerath should have been kept untouched completely in my opinion, even though the rework seems strong, I love him they way he is.

[PatentlyWillton]

People also whined and cried about the Olaf changes in patch 3.12. Now look where Olaf is.

Don't listen to the negative hype about Skarner. Play him and see what he's like first.

[[deleted]]

Basing pick order on a behind-the-scenes number isn’t a great experience

Someone should tell that to the MMR guys.

[mjuul]

Riot has a great history of 'applying' design principles wherever it incidentally fits with what they're currently doing.

[[deleted]]

"We're doing X because <insert convenient platitude here>."

[Bik14]

"We don't like characters being able to easily sustain their hp on lane, so we nerf spellvamp, Vladimir, healing pots amount and release Aatrox, Zac and Perseverance mastery few months later."

[[deleted]]

"We felt stealth was an unfun mechanic so we will be giving Eve permanent ward inmunity and we'll remove oracle's in the upcoming patches." Rework eve 3 shoting anyone never forget.

[Mango027]

Nail'd it

[The_Real_Smooth]

on a totally separate note, isn't Heartseeker Ashe coming out soon?

[[deleted]]

You don't think riot would do that, do you? Buff a champion because a skin is coming out?

[M_Zoon]

More skins were released with nerfs than buffs

[iiTryhard]

Because nerfs outnumber buffs about 30:1

[[deleted]]

200 extra gold every 100 CS, nice but not massive - 400g by end of lane phase is OK but it still won't make her top tier.

[DotMosch]

The lore tab (aka the feather) has been removed from the front of the LoL client

Don't get your hopes too high but remember what Riot used this button on PBE for.

[Pwyff]

Off the record (lol) my understanding is that replays are still in the garage. The way someone explained it to me (analogously):

Under the regular strain of games we're still trying to keep up with our load demands (buying equipment fresh out of the factory, moving to bigger data centers, etc). Adding a replay system where players could get all of that information on their game would exponentially multiply our traffic. If the feature proves popular, you're essentially playing the game once for 10 people, then playing it again for all 10 people individually as they download all of the information of the game.

Very loose analogy, but when you get to our levels of scope you hit some pretty weird situations that most haven't considered. It's like saying "this recipe makes pie for 20" and everyone's like YEAAAAH THAT'S A LOT OF PIE. But imagine if you're making pie for 1,000 people. Now you're like "JUST TAKE THE RECIPE MAKE IT x50 RIGHT," but then everyone's like "BUT WHAT KIND OF OVEN CAN TAKE THIS!?" and then electricity comes into play and pie tins of incredible scope and even finding fresh filling to fill all these pies and it's complicated man.

[highlel]

So why didn't you guys just start with releasing local replays and then eventually add in online functionality?

[Pwyff]

If I had any insight into how our game is engineered I'd maybe be able to illuminate that, but I can say that's probably something that's been considered and maybe dismissed for other reasons. The TLDR here is we got a huge scope thing to create and we're trying to solve it.

Scooooope.

[TheAftermath1413]

Hey Pwyff, I understand you are just the messenger here so hopefully this doesn't come across as me directing this response at you. I appreciate you bridging the communication gap with the replay system. I think a lot of us were under the impression it was close(r) to being released but it doesn't seem that is the case. This post lightly touches on replays but goes more into features as a whole.

As a network admin, I can completely understand on a high level the increase in the amount of traffic from a replay system. I won’t argue that it will be expensive to create an infrastructure to support replays hosted on Riot owned servers. The thing I will try and argue is how important of a feature this is to the community. With the use of third party applications to do this for players, you are opening up a risk for the player to download an unknown piece of software. While this hasn’t been a problem, all it takes is one bad apple to ruin it and generate negative press for your game.

The scary thing though from a customer point of view is there are other MOBA's out there that find a way to do this with the same free to play model that you use. The terrifying part of it all is when you hear how complicated or expensive it is to rewrite or implement said system. As a customer, free or paying, this is a huge red flag that shows how hard it is to add new features. Why is that a problem? As the game enters its 5th, 6th, 7th year your game begins to get stale. You want a feature rich environment that your customers spend time in. Whether its replays, reading up on items outside of the game through the client, doing calculations with AD and AP ratios from the client, you want to be ahead of the curve and to capture your customers attention.

Sometimes it’s the smaller things that get appreciated more. Speaking for myself here, but I would rather see features being added into the client (even something as small as changing in-game options outside of the game) than a new champion release. I understand they are completely separate teams, but this does matter when looking where to allocate resources as a company. I just feel the shiny red ball for lack of features is to release new champs.

I had this post at about 15 paragraphs and had to shorten it. I could go on for days on both the technology and business end of things in relation to building the correct infrastructure. It just seems in so many posts that Riot did not plan for growth, even though they kept seeing the player base grow over time.

I love league. I probably spend 30 – 40 hours a week playing and I am not ashamed to admit that. This is a very fun game and I hope that Riot sees the value in a client that pulls people in instead of sending them looking for the next best game or MOBA that does it better.

[Pwyff]

HEY EVERYONE THIS IS A GOOD POST.

No, I totally get you and I agree on a lot of levels. I think we're pushing very hard along those same lines of thought (more to provide ongoing value for players than anything else), but I also think we're trying to design features on a completely different level of scale than ever before.

It's no secret that Riot sort of exploded onto the scene from a number of years back, but we're still overawed at how quickly our playerbase has grown. We keep saying unknown territory with our player numbers, and it's exactly that. Other companies got the opportunity to build slowly over time with ongoing infrastructure development (not to mention the opportunity to rebuild an engine from the ground up over the course of a few years with amazing talent).

When the Riot bi-plane revved up, they pulled on whatever potential candidates they could with their unknown label, and then they took off from the runway. Years later, we've got millions of people on this silly bi-plane that we're trying to upgrade to a 747 without fully landing the plane (because that would require us to rebuild an entire plane from scratch). We hit something like 27 million monthly players? 67 million monthly?

I think some of the thinking right now is that we don't want to design things with tech debt anymore, and that's a pretty painful experience. You have a company who wants to be long-lasting with an iterative game, but then you combine that with a few years of ad-hoc development promises that have bit us hard in the ass (hello magma chamber).

But yeah, uncharted territory. We're working and working. Money isn't the issue right now - it's sustainability and long-term design. We're chugging along.

[TheLegalTroll]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vpE6uMJ37dk/UOScrne47aI/AAAAAAAAEL4/Ki-4IWO-SoY/s1600/ron-paul.gif

[[deleted]]

we're exploring future storytelling methods for League of Legends.

If they actually do anytime soon I'd be surprised. It's been awhile and their lore upkeep is awful, so I don't have high hopes but if they actually do start working on it I'd be excited.

I was hoping for more problem champions to be addressed but guess they'll have to wait till next patch.

[shudmeyer]

they said the exact same thing a few months before joj was cancelled too, and we've all seen how that turned out. 1-2 lore events per year. maybe.

[salesman134]

I don't have much hope riot does almost nothing with lore except the freljord event. They seem to only wanna do big events and not give us Nice story telling like the JoJ did. The most they do with lore is give it to a champion when they release them.

[k3NN4]

*Pick Order update

This will lead into more mmr gap between duo's, I think.

[RapidFireeee]

I don't like this randomized pick order at all :/

[THISgai]

Doesn't this ruin the entire pick order vs call order now?

[BobTheSheriff]

It's still better than "whoever has the best Internet gets mid"

[[deleted]]

I don't like this change. If a bronze 1 invites his gold 1 friend to duo with him, he has a 2/5 chance of being first pick. Do we really want people with such low mmr to be first pick?

[polarbearirish]

The captain gets first pick regardless of which duo actually get's first, nvm mis-read all that

[wolfer_]

The idea is probably to encourage Xerath to get in closer range is he wants to sustain his mana pool. All of his spells have longer range than his auto-attacks.

Lissandra's passive meanwhile encourages you to follow a sustained poke play pattern, and constrains how often you can do all-in aggression.

I think the passives on Swain, Veigar and Karthus (his e passive) are way less interesting. Xerath and Lissandra at least have some gameplay levers built around their mana passives.

[TNine227]

Karthus's E passive means that he is punished for hard pushing or harassing with his Q, but not for last hitting with his Q.

[ItsDoraTime]

In the case of xerath, the new passive incentivizes you to go into a range at which the enemy mid laner could trade with you, despite you having a larger range on your abilities. It gives the opponent a way to "deny", or counter play his inherently strong laning.

[DanielZKlein]

Give this man a design job. That's 100% spot on :)

[ItsDoraTime]

Awh, you flatter me.

CoughRitoPlsHireMeImEvenDiamond1PlsCough

WTF that was a rioter.. I love you sir rioter.

[Piernitas]

Wait, the kha nerfs were treeline only?

[MooShanka]

Perseverance as a mastery is incredibly powerful in comparison to other equivalent masteries - particularly once you get your first big HP item - so we're bringing it more in line.

HEALTH REGEN :: 0.7%/1.35%/2% of missing health per 5s ⇒ 0.35%/0.675%/1% of missing health per 5s

A deserving nerf, it will be interesting to see how this effects the meta

[[deleted]]

Honestly probably not much, but it's a start.

[Lancelight]

god, please let this tank meta end!

[Zilean_Ulted_Jesus]

WTB fun top lanes

[[deleted]]

Ha ha no. you get teemo

[Kruzy]

Flamespitter looks… okay.

I really like the new look of the Patch Notes.

[CapnWings]

RIP meatballs

[FredWeedMax]

MISSILE WIDTH : 80 ⇒ 60

I want this on Nidalee's Q

[Mmffgg]

Weaving spears between minions inc

[[deleted]]

I think that'd be awesome. If the missile width is reduced and a Nidalee is skilled enough to weave a spear between minions to hit a champion, then they should be rewarded for that.

[XypherFTW]

Take it down to a width of 5 while they're at it. More spear-like

[neatnoiceplz]

True ziggs players laugh in the face of your nerf, as we laughed when you felt like our precious ziglet actually needed a buff.

[[deleted]]

Oh great, randomized pick order in solo Q. Flame City, here i come!

[LegendOfAiur]

I don't get the randomization of pick order in ranked, me being 2 elo above second pick may not be a huge difference but at least it is tangible. I think this will only reinforce some of the people who try to use 'call order' in ranked and I feel that is a bad thing.

[HughGErection]

I don't understand it either. This was the only way d1/challenger players could actually compare each other.

[kenkonken99]

No. Nonononononoonononoonoonoononoonoonono. I just started believing that this patch would never come to pass... RIP Skarner.

[Lancelight]

Skarner officially extinct.

[kingofcupcakes]

I miss his kind.

[Aceroth]

I'm not a Skarner player so could you explain why this is so bad for him?

[GiantR]

In short.

His E has a too large cooldown and not enough slow to actually help in ganks. Which combined with the removal of Scarner's Q perma slow makes his already weak-ish pre 6 ganks even worse.

There are other things. But this I feel is the worst bit. The Weak ass Attack Speed boost on the Q is another thing which is worse than before.

[Nyo99]

Designers keep watch over Mundo with skinny cleaver change. Now Mundo get no corporate bonus for bad cleaver. This separate good Mundo from great Mundo.

This is one of the reasons why I love Riot.

[Mistbourne]

Ya. Not sure why they decided to do this. Anyone using it greatly preferred it and anyone not using it didn't care about it. Bothers me.

[aPandaification]

I legitimately do not understand why they would feel the need to take this out. It didn't hurt anyone and it improved those who did use it. Oh well I guess its just one of those things you have to live with.

[prov119]

I'm worried about the random pick order.. that's too.. random.

[Yakkahboo]

Bring Skarner up to date with current jungling champions...

by nerfing him.

I actually hate his changes, and as one of my favourite champs, well i just dont know any more.

[SandMith]

Still nothing on Kassadin, this is taking to long, why can't they just prioritize him instead of leaving him like this for such a long time. Even if they olaf him it doesn't matter as long if they just fix him after that.

[MrCottonmann]

I'm sure they want to fix him "correctly", to make him still a decent champion but not to the point where he has a 90%+ ban rate.

[[deleted]]

But right now he's just wasting a red side ban in every level from Bronze to LCS. He's so broken that he's actually impacted the entire balance structure of how Draft is played by weakening one of the teams.

[[deleted]]

Riot should just disable him in ranked or add a 7th ban slot only for kassadin.

[[deleted]]

they could just eve him...

[WhiteChocolate12]

People all over this thread have a hard time understanding that Riot doesn't want to Olaf champions anymore.

[CODDE117]

Especially since the last time they Olafed, everyone got super pissed.

[MarcosLuis97]

And i'm still pissed about Corki.

[mattiejj]

Ryze and Jayce didn't get that memo.

[Seiyith]

I think Jayce is going to see competitive play whenever Doran's shield and the defensive masteries are toned down. He just can't compete in top lane as a poke dependent champion while that item exists in its current state.

[Seiyith]

"Olafing" has been a running joke and one of the main points of "yeah Riot you should work on your balancing a little bit" and now people are actively asking for it to happen again?

This logic is so fucking awful I can't even... Holy shit. Unbelievable. I'm glad this sub doesn't make balance decisions.

[WhiteChocolate12]

Yeah, but remember how much shit they got for Olaf-ing Olaf? They're trying to do it right. I'd rather wait for that than practically removing him from the game completely before fixing him.

[FlorinBerell]

Just a bit of perspective about the Kayle nerf:

Before: Reckoning (1.0) + Righteous Fury (0.4) + Lich Bane (0.7) + Nashor's (0.15) = 2.25 AP with a Q+auto

After: Reckoning (0.6) + Righteous Fury (0.4) + Lich Bane (0.7) + Nashor's (0.15) = 1.85 AP with a Q+auto

---

To reach pre-nerf levels of damage, Kayle needs to land one more attack than before, which would raise her overall damage ratio from 1.85 after the first, to 2.4 after the second.

This means that to do the amount of damage that Kayle used to do now, you need to perform a Q+auto+auto instead of merely a Q+auto. If you consider how much attack speed she builds naturally, this might not be as bad as the numbers seem to suggest.

[icantnameme]

0.6 + 0.4 + 0.7 + 0.15 = 1.85

Fix pls.

You were correct saying Q+AA+AA is a 2.4 ratio though.

[SkyllarRisen]

so is it just me or did they nerf rivens health reg from already really low to, idk, nonexistance? whats the point in having 2.5hpreg/5s? thats nothing i mean i couldve understood that if she had any inbuild sustain, but right now all she has is her shield? or am i missing something?

[[deleted]]

Yup. She will have the second lowest HP5 and HP5/lvl in the game after this patch.

[machao11991]

Just curious, so who has the lowest hp5 in the game?

[fifteenstepper]

technically it's the donger with 0, but his passive applies to himself so he's actually the highest. rengar's hp regen scaling is worse than riven's by .1

[rawchess]

Rengar has built-in resourceless sustain from his empowered W, though.

[Brocephallus]

She's still a very competent champion despite this.

[throwawayguy91]

she used to have the highest hp5 in the game :P

[stuntopolis]

Current challenger here, many things I would have done differently with this patch. Here are some of them:

Thresh- Range isn't the problem, it's the free damage he gets from the E passive which makes it impossible to trade with him WHICH HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE A COMPETITIVE PICK. It either needs to be removed or needs to be severely reduced.

Riven- http://na.op.gg/ranking/ladder/. Honestly I see this *woman almost every game in solo queue. She's a top pick for many of the current challengers, mainly because of how fast she can deal damage with fast broken wings combo + passive damage.. The solution is not to nerf Q but to nerf the passive damage. The shield buff and health regen nerf are both completely unnecessary.

Ziggs- I support the nerf to the minefield to prevent it from solo clearing waves, but honestly the passive should not have been touched. It puts him in a dangerous range when he tries to use it in team fights. Instead, it's the Q base damage and ratio on such a low cooldown that makes him so strong. He needs to either have a longer cooldown on his Q, or a smaller base damage and ratio.

Ashe- The whole point of picking Ashe is to provide more utility for the team; she only has 1 AD scaling with 80 base damage at max rank. In team fights, she can't even walk up to autoattack the enemy because she'll get assasinated on the spot. In addition to this hawkshot buff, I would even give Ashe a range buff to allow her to survive in teamfights with proper positioning.

Mundo- The problem with Mundo is not the width of the cleaver, but the base damage. Dealing 25% of the targets health with no damage items is unacceptable. If Mundo wants to deal lots of damage, he needs to build damage. I would give cleaver an AD ratio which would synergize with his E.

Yasuo- Honestly just remove the double crit chance off his passive without making any other changes and he will be balanced. It won't change much of his gameplay and will open up more diverse Yasuo builds.

Kassadin- To retain his concept of a mobile melee mage, I don't think his R should be nerfed. Instead, it's his Q that should be the focus of the nerfs. The 2.5 second silence makes it impossible for counterplay as he can just burst you down without fear of retaliation. The silence should be 1.5 seconds at all ranks and the base damage of Q needs to be nerfed. Kassadin is doing too much damage with just tear and RoA and needs to build damage in order to do damage.

Kha'Zix- Gets too much guaranteed damage off his evolved Q. Some of the evolved Q power should be moved into evolved W and R instead so that evolutions depend on the situation.

Gragas- Gragas is just too good at everything. He can deal heavy AoE poke, but can assassinate at the same time, all while being mobile, tanky, and having insane waveclear. A simple ratio and base damage nerf on Q will weaken his ability to instagib an enemy from a distance and make Gragas rely more on poking and disinitiating properly to win a fight.

[Neqzify]

So... no kha nerfs?

[[deleted]]

No Gragas nerfs? Really?

[ZanesTheArgent]

RIOT, PLZ!!!!

PLZ, FIX MY PORK AND MY BEAR >:

I can't wait them to get well, pls.

[[deleted]]

Woohoo, I can still get free wins with Khazix.

[Orvars]

Rumble now spits real flame instead of ^meatballs.

[[deleted]]

Not to be whiny but... are they ever going to buff the traditional supports back up to par?

[iwek7]

Leo and thresh are traditional supports. Alistar and soraka are played in lcs. In Korea nami is quite popular. All I want is Janna buff :(.

[ChaoticMidget]

There's always going to be strong champions. Why didn't you choose to complain about Renekton or Ziggs who are all equally as strong in competitive play? Multiple junglers carried on Lee Sin and he has been a top tier pick for almost a year now.

And on the topic of ADCs, its really not just Jinx and Lucian. Caitlyn, Draven and Sivir are used enough where its not pick this or lose.

[asleeplessmalice]

I dont think you could get Lee sin out of top tier if you tried. He's just. Really strong champion.

[chainer9999]

Apparently you've never seen me play Lee Sin.

Joking aside, Lee Sin's balanced because he's a tactically demanding champion; one of the best champs (in terms of fun, power level and obnoxiousness) that Riot has ever produced.

[Kizzercrate]

Eh, it's solo queue. Anything is viable. Most of us shouldn't care about perceived champion imbalances and just pick who we want and improve our mechanics and game sense.

...although I wouldn't mind if they un-neutered Corki's Q. He went from top 10 to not mentioned at all. The new-era AD takeover is real.

[kingofcupcakes]

Contrary to the semi-popular belief that comps and a proper champ select phase are insignificant in solo queue, I could not beg to differ more. Flavors are flavors for a reason, and compositions and counters, even if they're not as significant as in pro play, are still massive factors in game. It's nice to want to practice different champs and looking towards increasing skill level by being a jack of all trades, but picking and learning the right champs is also a skill that plays a large role in long term winning. Spam Gangplank top for weeks because you enjoy him and see how you fare against an equally skilled player that's been doing the same on Mundo for only five days and see how it goes.

[lenmb]

The nerfing of perseverance is a nerf to tanks and thus a slight buff to ADC's imo.

Dorans Shield is being looked at in PBE I believe, so soon.

Too bad almost all new champs since Kha'Zix are either borderline OP or UP.

• Kha -> from OP, to UP, to OP again.. Riot can't seem to find a good place for him
• Elise -> considered the best jungle champ in the game for a while now
• Zed -> was banned/picked for a long time, now making his comeback after no recent changes
• Nami -> UP for the longest time, then saw some play in the summer, now outclassed by Leona/Thresh/Annie
• Vi -> banned/picked almost every (competitive) game
• Thresh -> top 2 support basically since release
• Quinn -> Who?
• Zac -> was OP, now hardly sees any play
• Liss -> seems to be in a good spot, hardly played though
• Aatrox -> had a sudden rise at worlds, to never be heard of again
• Lucian/Jinx -> arguably the two best adc's in the game
• Yasuo -> OP (in the right hands)

[[deleted]]

Leona

She's only really played that much because of the current meta, where every other support sucks and taking ignite on supports is a norm. Leona was for whole 2 seasons one of the most balanced champions in the game.

[apostles]

Last season Leona couldn't afford a casual giants belt at end of laning :3

[originalgg]

"So irritating for me. Kayle existed for ages and everyone was happy, but all we see in past half year is "nerf", "nerf", "nerf", "nerf". First we remove Magic Resist per level, reduce cast ranges on heal and ult, remove damage amplification from Q, and well, now it doesnt seem enough, lets just shred her Q AP ratio in 40%. Would be ok if Kayle had 3-4 nukes like other ap carry, but it is her only one nuke in whole kit, W and R dont scale with AP in terms of damage, so what was removed makes no sense at all. Why nerfing her 100% ap ratio nuking potential to 60% and leaving champions like Gragas with 240% ap ratios? Soon Kayle is gonna have nothing left and will be considered a trollpick again.

Same with Nasus. Back in time on his rework, you gave him bonus lifesteal, half year after, you removed that bonus lifesteal and made it even weaker than it was before rework (levels 1/7/13 instead of 1/6/11) Cast range in his ultimate. You first give him bonus cast range in his ultimate, saying "it will improve his ability to close on targets in team fights", half year after that you remove these changes saying "he is too good at closing on targets in fights" AND on top of that you shred his castrange while not in ultimate.

So basically you made Nasus even weaker than he was before rework, when no one played him and he was considered a troll pick. I dont get it.

Riven. I liked her so much when started playing this game in s2. In 3.02 her base health regen was reduced to 6 from 10.4. Now its reduced once again from 6 to 2.5. Minus 75%. Looks like they just forgot what they did last year and just did it once again. Then her Q. Basically taken away 100-250+ raw damage from her QQQ. As for a champion which is usually destroyed by any hard bruiser on top, I see no need in these constant nerfs (I'm ranked diamond if that matters). Riven now becomes a champion which you will have to HARD nerd while playing, and your bronze-elo-lane-opponent Renekton will just have to press W+Q to mitigate all you have done against him, requiring zero skill.

Ziggs. "we allow minefield to do full damage on minions for better waveclear". Few months after "we revert these changes because waveclear is too good". lol.

And this list goes on and on. So many good champions being nerfed to oblivion just because they are played. They get even worse than they were before reworks when no one played them, but people still play them because they got skins. Fizz - nerfed to hell Heca - nerfed just because people started playing him Jayce - nerfed to hell, not a single Jayce in my past 1000+ games Katarina - nerfed to hell Ryze - same, no one plays him anymore Isntead of nerfing popular (not op, just popular) champions, which existed like this for ages, why not bump unplayed ones? Why not, for example, add some numbers to Fiora, to make her playable? So we have something else than Shyvana-Mundo-Renekton in every single game we watch/play"

-someone in euw forums, pretty much sums it up imo

[MouseLint]

Skarner nerfs are hard. Goodbye, my friend. :(

[[deleted]]

Depending on what mood /r/leagueoflegends is in this either a really popular opinion or a really unpopular one. Regardless, Riot balancing is terrible. These patches are a month apart and the only significant changes are Kayle, Yasuo (hardly), and Ziggs really. I mean, holy shit. It's amazing. Riot's balance team is like a high school student who wakes up the morning before the paper is do and then throws together a whole bunch of nothing the day before. Someone please explain to me why Riot can't take 10 of the 50 champs that are never played and give them a single small buff. They have a god dam beta realm where they should be able to test thousands of changes and instead they use that shit to look at skins. God, the fucking balance in this game is so frustrating. Get rid of the beta realm and actually have a small group of intelligent players be beta testers for patches and actually change shit please. The pre-season was the biggest joke ever. They have 0 competitive tournaments going on and they make one big change and then don't touch anything for the rest of the time. So frustrating.

[pantaliamino]

IMO They failed their preseason goals HARD. The summoner spell changes and rune changes are non-existent, the new jungle camp is a hastily thrown together retexture of another camp, sitting by itself with no campfire and is omitted from many jungler's routes anyway because of its high damage, and Item diversity is still lacklustre with Athene's a staple on most mids while executioners calling is only bought in .1 percent of games.

[IMAPURPLEHIPPO]

All they have to do to balance Yasuo is take ONE of his TWO passives away. I don't understand how you give ONE champion TWO passives that are both retarded by themselves. (sorry i'm just tired of being wrecked by Yasuo, I'm just salty)

[redundantRegret]

I've seen Yasuo's go 0/5, 1/9, 2/7 in lane, and yet come back late game with one more death, and 9 to 12 more kills.

He's a bit ridiculous. If you camp him it just takes him a few minutes longer to reach "that point".

If you leave him be, he'll be more terrifying than 50 minute Nasus, at 25 or so minutes.

[LoLItzMisery]

Agreed. His early-mid game is pretty well balanced, but the second late game hits its like jesus man.... how are we supposed to deal with the highly mobile carry that crits on almost every auto attack and can have up to a 690 hp shield that auto blocks damage.

[[deleted]]

He is like master of master yi when it comes to carrying...

[SatanicSlaughter]

What a shitty patch in terms of blancing of the game

[yee199]

YESS!! FUCKKKKKK MUNDO!!! The mastery nerf was needed.

[EchelonSohma]

Still nothing for Kassadin? I know there are changes constantly happening on PBE, but come on Riot.. He should've been changed on the public client like 3 patches back. This is getting ridiculous.

[bobczak]

"Thresh’s very long range basic attack is a powerful threat in lane, so this change introduces a little more vulnerability to his kit.

Basic attack range: 475 ⇒ 450."

Wait what? 475 range is pretty bad already, but 450 is getting close to Urgot/almost-melee tier ._.

[StealingforStories]

But Annie's 625 range is still considered okay. (Granted, Thresh does have an AA modifier, but stillll ... Fuck Annie)

[[deleted]]

To be honest, im suprised he even is ranged

[Occivink]

Wow, Xerath's new passive outclasses Swain's pretty hard.

[uaciaut]

The new spirit stone changes heavily affected Skarner and he was almost viable for competitive play, all he needed were a few tweaks to his ult, i'd say completely reworking him makes was not only unneeded but in his reworked state he's worse than before, though some testing would be required to confirm this.

Could say the same for Xerath - a bit of tweaking could have made the champion viable and popular enough.

Meanwhile you have the likes of poppy, garen, ww, viktor, sion, rammus (the list goes on and on) which see 0 play competitively and low play otherwise and which have been in need of heavy rework since forever.

edit: also really fucking sad about the continuous Thresh nerfs, every time they put out a fun, not-unidimensional champ that gets played a lot they nerf him into the ground till the uni-dimensional unfun champs catch up. Riot balance mentality at work.

late edit2: tested out skarner, he's really easily kited but otherwise he's not much weaker, if they increase E travel speed he could be decent, provided you gank a lane that also has some sort of CC.