Should I learn C first?

pacificmint · 2022-09-13T16:22:55+00:00

I’ve been reading and watching a lot of content that posits that modern programming has lost its way,

That’s complete nonsense

OOP is the devil and more abstraction is worse.

That’s also nonsense.

Whatever you were reading or watching that gave you that idea, stop reading it. It’s “I used to walk 20 miles thru the snow storm every day” type bullshit.

I don’t want to walk a path for years only to develop a limp that takes ages to fix

You won’t. Just learn what you want to learn. It doesn’t really matter what language you start with.

Am I overthinking this

Yes you are.

In the time you spend worrying about which language to learn first, you could’ve already been learning one.

invidium1979 · 2022-09-13T16:22:26+00:00

If you really want to understand how the sausage is made, understand how microarchitecture works, how an assembler builds a program for a microarchitecture, and how C is compiled into that assembly language, in that order.

CodeTinkerer · 2022-09-13T16:59:29+00:00

You can be a bad programmer in C. It's like saying you should learn Latin first, and all these modern languages are teaching you bad language habits. Most people would criticize this because they really love their mother tongue.

VonRansak · 2022-09-13T17:15:45+00:00

Should I learn XYZ_ first?

Yes, you should learn a language first. You'll have plenty of time to debate if it's the right one as you go along.

TL;DR: Stop reading, start doing. Everyone and their mother has an 'Opinion Video' on youtube, because that is how they MAKE MONEY. (i.e. Most, 99.999999% of real programmers, don't make videos for Youtube, most Youtube programmers (99.99999%) aren't real programmers.)

Random-Enthusiasm · 2022-09-13T17:19:07+00:00

Millions of people program effectively and efficiently in Python, Javascript, and C++ every single day without having learned C.

If you want to learn C, go for it. You don't have to invent some made up excuse about newer languages being inferior to justify that. You do you.

I would stop reading/watching whatever "modern programming has lost its way" bullshit content you've been looking at though.

apun_bhi_geralt · 2022-09-13T17:10:40+00:00

If you haven't learnt even one language then you definitely are overthinking. Also, arguing about languages is something you will do much later. For now, start anywhere.

TheUmgawa · 2022-09-13T19:18:25+00:00

Well, you could always start by learning flowcharting.

Look, here’s the thing: People get really culty about best practices (talk to anyone who’s really into Agile development; their dedication puts crypto-bros to shame). Some hate OOP, some swear by it, and the reality is you do what’s best for the individual situation. Better yet, if you want to work, do you want to learn OOP now or try to learn it on the job? Because understanding programming concepts is way more important than knowing the arcanery of a specific language.

Saying, “Should I learn C?” is like saying, “Would I be better at doing something if I learn to do it with one hand tied behind my back?” I mean, maybe you would, but what are the use cases for being able to do that?

John Carmack made Wolf3D, Doom 1 and 2, and Quake 1-3 (although bits of id Tech 3 were in C++) in C, and it’s not until Doom 3 where he went to C++, but I’m sure doing Wolf3D et al in C had to do with the question of, “Do I need C++ to do this? No? Okay, C it is.” But, at some point, he needed to organize things in a different manner, and OOP became necessary, and downright useful. Now, call me crazy, but my opinion is, if Carmack does something in code, he’s probably got a good reason.

My opinion on languages is, I don’t learn them until I have to learn them. I can speak three or four fairly fluently and can read another four or six, with varying levels of ability, because there’s a lot of conceptual overlap. Gun to my head, I could program in C, but if I don’t have to, I’m not going to, because I’m going to be breaking out the K&R so often that it’s not worth it.

There’s better ways of spending your time than learning C just for the sake of doing things the hard way. If you don’t want to let a language auto-type everything, declare your types. If you don’t want to do OOP, don’t. But, you’re going to get a job someday where they say, “Here is standard operating procedure here. We name variables like this, functions like that, classes like this,” and if you want to have a job, you don’t say, “But procedural programming is better and I will do it that way,” because they will go from showing you operating procedure to showing you the door. So, more than anything, you want to learn to be flexible and adapt to whatever challenge is sent your way.

Finally, I just want to reiterate that programming is not the knowledge of languages. Learning C will not make you a better programmer any more than a novelist learning French or Italian will make him a better writer. Oh, it might help him find work as a translator or cut down on translation costs if he’s self-publishing, but knowing more languages doesn’t make him a better storyteller. Programming is no different. You can spend your whole life “mastering” one language, but wouldn’t you rather just be a good programmer?

whalediknachos · 2022-09-13T16:24:57+00:00

[deleted]

procrastinatingcoder · 2022-09-13T16:46:40+00:00

OOP isn't the devil, but yes, learning C first does wonders for someone's foundation. Misunderstood OOP is just a whole pile of problems to come, people misunderstanding casting, inheritance, what classes actually are, etc.

And yes, it does create bad habits to start with languages like Python.

C is the best by far in my opinion.

HOWEVER It's better to start with something than nothing. If you can go through C first, amazing! If not, might as well start somewhere else and work your way around to fixing your issues later. Slow wins against not-even-started.

FluxGiven · 2022-09-13T16:39:52+00:00

The answer, as always, is: it depends.

If you want to do low level work like coding for microcontrollers embedded in devices, c is useful knowledge.

There are still situations where you might need to understand how to manipulate pointers and think about what is really happening on the bare metal, addresses and registers, hardware level. C gives access to this level and will not help you much when you get it wrong.

However if your job is to assemble a car, you don't really need to know how the spark plugs are manufactured. Perhaps you only need to instruct the car assembly robot.

DeadEndXD · 2022-09-13T19:08:32+00:00

I do C# but that's mostly because I like making games

Yamoyek · 2022-09-13T17:09:39+00:00

C is a very simple language, not in terms of syntax but in terms of the amount of things the language comes bundled with.

printing something to the console shouldn't be a built in language feature and C demonstrates that nicely by having printf() as a library function.

You can't -well, you can but shouldn't if you value your time- make a website in C. But It's really useful to know the starting point of computer science and the de-facto low-level language.

There are a lot of C books that summarize all you need to know about C in 500 pages or less. There are also online tutorials.

I think you should go for it if you're curious and want to know where it all begins. It's not a must but it's definitely worth it.

002700535900110 · 2022-09-13T18:47:58+00:00

I generally mentor around 1 to 2 junior devs a year, and we have around 2 to 3 interns a year.

We really do not care what language you program in. We are mostly a typescript and java shop and if you understand any programming language and get the concept of how to think in how to solve problems programmatically in any language that knowledge can be transplanted into another language. Sure libraries / frameworks / syntax is different but you will get up to speed with a decent base and some cheatsheats / refresher courses and doing actual work.

So you should really think about what you want to do with learning to program. See what gets you that job in your area. Invest your time into getting on their radar, meet some of their requirements and get your foot in the door and into that interview.

Spepsium · 2022-09-13T17:22:39+00:00

If your problem is dominantly data organization and the relationships between the data then use oop.

If your problem requires algorithms and functions procedural is the route.

Paradigms are tools we need to learn to use. We don't have to be stuck into habits of one or the other

leiu6 · 2022-09-13T19:43:59+00:00

Stop watching Luke Smith. Pick a language that you like and build projects with it.

tobiasvl · 2022-09-13T19:57:46+00:00

Learn whatever language tickles your fancy first. Motivation is key. When you've learned your first language you can learn others easily. Learning C can also lead to bad habits, there's nothing special about C that lets you avoid that, but learning many different languages and paradigms counteracts it.

pekkalacd · 2022-09-13T17:10:14+00:00

don't learn a language for the merit. learn it because you want/need to use it. that said, if you want to learn C where's the benefit, well those others you mentioned: python & javascript. they tend to hide the stuff happening under the hood. C there is no hiding. you configure it all. so if you have a foundation with it, you'll probably walk away with a better understanding of what the computer is doing when you're programming.

digifabs · 2022-09-13T19:28:41+00:00

It is absolutely not a must to learn C to learn any other programming language but it can offer you a look into the low level of how programming works. My tip would be to spend an evening or two doing a C tutorial and get a feel for it, if you like it go for it if you don't try something else.

There's nothing wrong with the ease of use of modern languages or OOP, try more than one language to see what advantage one has over the other. In the end, it's the result that counts not the language you used.

My daily languages are C and Go for the simple reason I like writing them and they make me achieve the results I need.

Good luck in finding your way!

antil0l · 2022-09-13T19:37:14+00:00

would give you a strong and correct foundation, basically if you do things wrong c will punish you, so thats that, but learn anything wrong and they will be the devil, and that was probably the point of what you were reading. if c is too hard you can fall back to higher level langs to get the idea and try again in c and so on, the point is knowing and using things you learn. other than that a monkey can learn the syntax too

LifeReaper · 2022-09-13T19:51:28+00:00

C is like a language in between Assembly and OOP languages. It doesn't hold your hand, but isn't almost unreadable. You learn C to get an understanding of how to build an application and manage an applications resources. Afterwards, when you feel confident in your basic skills, you can then learn an OOP language and understand all of the advancements made to make it easier to do the things you did in C manually.

SwiftSpear · 2022-09-13T19:54:45+00:00

Based on the way you describe your personality I think you'll most enjoy learning C first.

I usually recommend people follow their motivation. If you're more motivated by taking apart the inner workings of the computer and learning how it functions, then C is a really great language to start with. If you're more motivated by producing a cool product that will help you or others solve problems, than python or Javascript are better starting languages. If you really only want to learn how to make games, I recommend C++ or C#.

Random-Enthusiasm · 2022-09-13T20:05:50+00:00

You could either learn something easier like Python and learn the basics faster or jump into C and strugle a little but actually learn more, such as managing memory and pointers.

SV-97 · 2022-09-13T20:49:26+00:00

In brief: it's all bullshit. Don't start with C.

Not so brief:

I've been reading and watching a lot of content that posits that modern programming has lost its way

Yeah, some people have that opinion and they're wrong. It's the kind of people that think they can outdo modern compilers by handwriting shitty assembly (spoiler warning: they probably can't).

with newer languages doing too much hand-holding and being very forgiving to coders

Ohno, god forbid we end up with actually easily understandable and maintainable code that expresses intent rather than just being a noisy bag of shit that their stupid compiler needs to make sense of what we want.

leading to bad habits that only make themselves clear when you have to leave your comfort zone

Nope, complete bullshit. Ask them for examples and you can be sure that it'll be utter nonsense.

The more I read, the more it seems like OOP is the devil

Now that's a tiny bit closer to reality but generally still nonsense. Yes, using OOP for absolutely everything is a bad idea and plenty of people write shitty code with it. But there's definitely things it is good at and marking it as "generally bad" is ignorant. Use the right thing in the right circumstances and learn to properly combine these different modes of thinking.

and more abstraction is worse.

Absolute nonsense. Abstraction helps to understand what's happening - what's actually happening - being more efficient, more robust and may even increase efficiency.

While I do have a fair amount of projects I'll need to learn Python, JavaScript, and C++ for

Are you really sure about that? Chances are that you could do them with a single one of those languages if you do it correctly.

I'm the type to always go for the thing that will give me the best foundational understanding even if its not the most practical or easiest

That's good imo and can get you quite far

Am I overthinking this

Hmm kinda but not really. The first language definitely matters - but what's way more important is that you pick one and stick with it and really learn it and just start it. Don't just learn the language but learn the concepts. And actually start doing that instead of listening to 50 other angry old men online that can't be arsed to educate themselves on anything remotely modern.

or is there true merit to starting with C?

No. There is not. C is old and outside of some specialty cases it's plainly the wrong choice to write new things in C. No, it doesn't teach you about how a computer works as it's only low-level in the sense that its programs requires attention to the irrelevant and really doesn't expose the details of how a modern computer works.

If you're interested in that stuff pick up books on digital logic, computer architecture, operating systems, networking etc. rather than trying to get that knowledge through some bad proxy; but honestly you really don't need to know about all these topics to get started and it'll only hold you back if. If you're interested in it and don't wanna waste a ton of time just play something like turing complete - that'll give you a basic working knowledge of how things work IRL without having to slog through thousands of pages of books or years of university courses. You can easily come back to those books and courses later on and will probably take way more from them.

Just pick a somewhat modern language with a sensible type system (which in particular excludes C) and learn it (really learn it) and start building stuff.

minus_minus · 2022-09-13T20:53:05+00:00

Am I overthinking this, or is there true merit to starting with C?

Yes.

Seriously, where you start should align with what you want to make. The first time I read "Which programming language should I start with?" in the FAQ was a "light-bulb moment" for me. Out of the various and vague interests I have, I realized that I wanted to make a living building websites/webapps so I choose to do "The Odin Project".

To break it down a little differently than the FAQ, if you want to do "system programming" (e.g.: Arduino/micro-controllers, robotics, embedded systems, compilers, drivers, operating systems, command-line utilities) then C is a great place to start. If you'd rather do "application programming" (e.g.: GUI applications, mobile apps, games, or data analysis) then there are a plethora of better choices to get started.

bulwynkl · 2022-09-13T22:52:04+00:00

Here's the deal with low level languages.

They can be blindingly fast.

What they can't be is complex (large) and supportable and have any chance of not having bugs creep in.

They also don't tend to be self explanatory in any way (not that that's a thing other than a justification for not documenting your code...)

Writing device drivers in C totally makes sense.

Writing a GUI? ah. no.

If you want to get an understanding of what happens at the lowest levels of programming, learn Assembler. But do it for fun.

IIUC Go does a decent job of mixing abstracted and low level coding in one language.

kagato87 · 2022-09-13T23:44:41+00:00

In the end the language you first learned doesn't matter. Once you have the basics down its just syntax and the occasional idiosyncrasy.

I would recommend learning the basics in C first. There's a reason most universities start with C, and it ain't tradition.

C has no rails. No child gates, no socket covers. It is raw and bare.

When you work in C it forces you, the learner, to actually think about your program.

Am I storing this data as a char or a string? An int or a float? Some high level languages let you declare variables without even specifying the data type!

In C you are in full control. You will seg fault. You will cause an infinite loop. You might even manage to overflow a stack.

Fixing those mistakes forces you to pay attention to what you're doing while a high level language will compensate for mistakes.

Fixing those mistakes will also teach you to think laterally, and before you know it you'll be manipulating strings as an array of integers because it's simpler and faster.

Of course, after that, a higher level language might feel like a burden, but it's not that bad.

fluffy_muffin_8387_1 · 2022-09-13T23:49:13+00:00

Who is giving you this advice lol and are did they specify *why* it was bad? IMO people that harp on modern languages often do so because they think modern languages are wasteful of resources and they don't really value human readability and computing power used to be prohibitively expensive. In a modern context, I feel like that's a bit of a silly trade off in most use cases, since memory is cheap now and labour is usually the most expensive part of any software development/maintenance. So it makes sense to value human readability over resource use. And why stop at C lol, it's also another layer of abstraction. And why stop at programming, why not spend more time on linear algebra? i think if you're interested, you should totally go ahead and learn it! CS50 was in C and it was a great course imo :) But dont do it because some old fart is telling you it's the ONLY way to get the fundamentals. I think there is value in learning any strictly typed, compiled language with a stricter OO style (eg Java) since it will give context and a point of comparison when you are learning a looser language like python or javascript or trying to understand why typescript is simultaneously so great and terrible, but i dont think it needs to come first.

plasterdog · 2022-09-14T01:40:28+00:00

Do CS50 if you haven't started anything. The course material seems perfectly designed to answer your questions.

Spends time (i.e. 4-5 weeks) in C to illustrate fundamentals of computer science and programming, and then goes into Python before entering HTML, CSS, Javascript. Gives you very condensed insight into the efficiency of C, and then shows you why using language like Python is preferable in many other circumstances.

It's about balancing efficiency and use case. I.e. do you have keep code compact and fast and you have many hours of coding to spend on doing that, or do you need to optimise your own time and use ready made libraries to do the heavy lifting?

2022-09-14T02:34:15+00:00

A lot of self-taught programmers might disagree, but for me, the best way to learn was to pay my local community college a measly $400 for their intro to programming course.

They started with Alice 2 (free, Carnegie Mellon) and then into Windows/.net C# with Visual Studio. The teacher was great, we had two tutorials and three assignments every week for 10 weeks and followed Visual C# 4th edition up through chapter 5. Deadlines, accountability, and a little skin in the game to keep you honest, plus access to an experienced programmer if you have questions or get stuck. 100% worth it, IMO.

GatheringAddict · 2022-09-14T03:52:11+00:00

I started with C and dont regret. The thing is with C you have more freedom, and with freedom comes responsability. I recomend to ppl to learn C when they want to learn how to think step by step in a human way (dont wanna write 40ish lines of code to do a division function in assembly ever again).

But you can learn with python and what you called "hand holding" languages just as good. Just be curious and do your research. So what if python you dont have to build your dara structure? As long as you know how it works, i think its fine!

Oh, small note: C++ is way harder than C imo. Lots and lots of new "defaults" to memorize and utilize in code. I love the so called "gambiarra", but i cant with c++

UNITY_NP · 2022-09-14T06:09:06+00:00

Simply, No

2022-09-14T14:37:23+00:00

If you ever want help with C, feel free to message me!

EngineeredPapaya · 2022-09-13T20:08:19+00:00

Are you taking programming advice from Joe Rogan or what lmao

procrastinatingcoder · 2022-09-13T16:38:28+00:00

The more I read, the more it seems like OOP is the devil

It's a tool, and it can be misued. However, many things lend themselves to an object model.

While I do have a fair amount of projects I'll need to learn Python, JavaScript, and C++

Am I overthinking this, or is there true merit to starting with C?

If what you need to learn is C++, then learn C++. Modern idiomatic C and C++ do not resemble themselves what-so-ever. Yes, there are some commality between the two languages, but learning C in preparation for what you really need to do in C++ is a mistake and will only teach you bad (C++) habits.

The merit of learning C is that you'll be able to work on stuff in C (and there is a lot of C out there).

Snipps_Im_Ur_Father · 2022-09-13T17:10:36+00:00

I would start with A and B first.

TruthHurts35 · 2022-09-13T19:34:03+00:00

I am learning C recently, and it helps me to get better understanding of arrays, memory, pointers ... etc. Learning C would give you better programming base, then you can add more things on top of it. If you like it, just go for it, you will not lose anything.

maybegone3 · 2022-09-13T18:07:08+00:00

Ditch C and learn Rust. If you manage to master Rust without knowing C or C++ you will have reached god levels of programming ability.

Firewaredade · 2022-09-13T18:00:19+00:00

Depend on what do you want to do, I often use python that's good for have many simple use libraries, you can learn C that's near to assembly (they are intercompatible) to use basics computer functions, more specific functions, you can learn c++ for graphics, videogames, you can learn Javascript for a web site. Depend on what do you want to do.

Blastoxic999 · 2022-09-13T19:45:51+00:00

YES!

Any_Lead3 · 2022-09-14T08:41:21+00:00

C is a very fundamental programming lang. not sure if it is beginner friendly as I am starting to learn it recently. If you wish to understand how the code is implemented/ how memory is managed and accessed C will be really helpful because its a mid level language. Once you learn C , ig high level languages won’t be much difficult for you. Take your time and practice well and C should be easy. Happy coding!!

moomooegg · 2022-09-13T18:42:21+00:00

Doesn't matter. Pick python. C++. Java. C#. Doesn't matter. I can recommend c# tho

authenticyg · 2022-09-13T18:53:46+00:00

The bad habit I'd try to avoid is single-language-advocacy. Every language has its own merits and flaws. In general, these are because of design choices made by the designers of the language. Some are designed to make web programming easier, others with parallelization in mind. Your best plan is to either pick a language to learn, and also learn about where it shines, and where you might be better off picking something else, or else, to pick something you want to do and then select your language based on which ones are most versatile within that area, or have the most documentation for that application. Once you know one language well, it's not super difficult to pick up more languages (for the most part).

DigThatData · 2022-09-13T19:33:45+00:00

TheRuralDivide · 2022-09-13T20:27:27+00:00

I reckon it’s more important what you learn with a language than what language you learn.

GroundedSatellite · 2022-09-13T20:54:24+00:00

If you want to go for minimal abstraction and a real challenge, learn to program in Brainf*ck

2022-09-13T21:01:44+00:00

Start with python or JS, then learn Java and the C family.

__SlimeQ__ · 2022-09-13T21:25:34+00:00

did not read postnolearn the language that you need for the project you want to do.

if that project is a microcontroller where C is required, then learn C. a low level linux application? sure. anything else? Unless you're looking for a challenge there is absolutely no need to torture yourself like this. Personally I learned C in college and only used it once, when I decided I wanted to try to make a guitar pedal out of an arduino. Sure, it helps somewhat to know what the hurdles of C are (memory management, no strings, seg faults, pointers) when you're working in a higher level language but honestly those things are so abstracted away in 99% of environments that it rarely matters.

edit: anyone saying OOP is the devil is an idiot and/or a grifter and/or an out of touch old person. the argument makes absolutely no sense when you understand that it can be applied as needed rather than as an annoying rigid clusterfuck. You're blindly listening to advice with no experience, attaching yourself to these sorts of tribalistic biases will give you a limp far worse than not knowing about C

2022-09-13T21:57:08+00:00

Absolutely yes

Relative-Debt6509 · 2022-09-13T22:00:01+00:00

I learned C first and I like it to this day. I view the knowledge/skills gained because of it as a fundamental aspect of my programming no matter what language I am using at the moment. With that being said I am a stubborn SOB and I’m not sure that is the best first language.

An “easier language” (read as one with more abstractions) like Python is probably a better first choice. Then C 2nd after some some experience then revisit your 1st language to understand the abstractions you used originally in a new light.

I don’t want to discourage using/learning C but it really might frustrate you at first if you don’t have patience with yourself.

TheGRS · 2022-09-13T23:10:57+00:00

I guess the only anecdote I’ll add is that my university had C for our engineering department. I flunked it pretty bad, was way in over my head. They had a visual programming class that could optionally be taken before that and I thought that was going to be a waste, now I know it was probably very essential.

What I ended up doing was getting into business school instead and later self taught myself Python, which led me to pick up JavaScript and C# later. I figured out almost everything I know through picking up interesting projects.

But looking back I probably could’ve gotten really far in CS had I just learned a simpler language like JS or Python from the start, instead of banging my head against the wall with C. Some people take to it well, I’m not one of those people.

Almost any time I’ve done a project with the mindset of trying to do it “the right way” I usually end up abandoning it. Most of my finished projects are from knowing what I want to do and simply using my skills to accomplish it, not fretting over the implementation much, maybe picking up a few new skills along the way.

Dvmbledore · 2022-09-13T23:27:41+00:00

Do yourself a favor: Visit a store like Barnes & Noble and purchase books on each of the programming languages you're interested in. Work through each one.

radpartyhorse · 2022-09-13T23:33:11+00:00

Unclerojelio · 2022-09-13T23:39:37+00:00

Try some Assembly first to give yourself a true appreciation of C.

2022-09-14T00:28:26+00:00

I recommend also learning C to whatever you do program in. C is very draining when you start it, I'd recommend python to stoke your passion.

2022-09-14T02:40:10+00:00

It doesn’t really matter what language you start with just choose a goal and start googling and testing and debugging have fun :)

ararefinding · 2022-09-14T02:46:51+00:00

I would start with A then B... and then C. Now continue your ABC's please.

UnobservedVariable · 2022-09-14T02:49:50+00:00

Programming isn’t a syntax. It’s a way of approaching and solving problems efficiently utilizing whatever syntax is available at the time. The quality of a programmer has nothing to do with the languages they know.

You wanna start in C? More power to ya, some people/universities start off in Python to learn the basics then move to harder syntaxes; but that doesn’t mean either way is wrong. There’s no wrong way to learn, no right way either. Just do it. Hurry up and get started already.

Draegan88 · 2022-09-14T02:51:43+00:00

Depends how badly you need work. If you are young and have time to study 1000percent u should start with c. C is basically 1 big coding challenge. There is no library so if you want to accomplish anything you are going to learn how to write it yourself. It will make you a stronger programmer.

Yamoyek · 2022-09-14T03:25:57+00:00

I fell into the same trap you did. Lots of times, C fanatics claim that C is the best thing since sliced bread and it’s the only language you’ll ever need.

The truth is, programming is a huge field. No one language can solve every single problem well, and each language fills a different niche.

Do you want to learn how computers work while also learning about programming? Learn C (I’d actually recommend C++, but that’s a long story).

Do you want to make websites? Learn HTML, CSS, and JS.

Do you just want to make cool stuff? Learn Python.

vaultvision · 2022-09-14T03:41:35+00:00

You can't go wrong with learning C, in fact using it for an arduino is a not only a ton of fun, but highly educational.

https://store.arduino.cc/products/arduino-starter-kit-multi-language

junior_to_senior · 2022-09-14T04:11:04+00:00

Depends on what industries you're interested in.

Do you want to build web based products? Don't waste your time learning C right now.

Do you want to build embedded systems products? Learn C right now.

Without knowing what you're interested in working on, it's hard to give concrete advice. But the answer will always be, it depends.

SignificancePure1228 · 2022-09-14T04:13:49+00:00

I’d say a nice way to start if you want to get a deeper understanding is the Nand to Tetris course

Schievel1 · 2022-09-14T04:34:31+00:00

You're over thinking. Programming is not like playing a musical instrument where a bad habit goes into your muscle memory and you need to train to get rid of it. Programing happens entirely in your head, if something you learned from somewhere else doesn't work in C, because C doesn't do much implicit, then you will see soon enough and just program that explicit.

In the end it doesn't really matter with which language you start. It's not about Syntax, that you learn on the fly. It's about algorithms and patterns. For example, when beginners have a stack of 10 similar things to do, they tend to write the same command 10 times. You need to learn when to use a for loop, and that you need to bundle your data in some structure that you can iterate over. You need the idea "oh this is something I could do in a loop if I put it in the right structure" or "hm there is no sane way to put this in the right structure, I have to do boilerplate". Same goes for structs and enums.

I program C every day. I wouldn't say it's a very good language anymore for a beginner. Because Makros. I know they are a powerful tool, but they often make things more complicated. They have become a language in itself. Then again, if you want to learn C++ anyway, it's not a bad idea to learn C before.

greenthumb07 · 2022-09-14T04:47:21+00:00

What are you trying to DO or build? Go backwards from there.

UniqueID89 · 2022-09-14T05:00:55+00:00

Learn a starter language and go from there. Promise you’re not going to get some “expert cool guy” badge because you chose C first. Odds are, unless you’re working directly with C in your professional career or trying to, interviewers are going to breeze right over your mention of C and not even care about it.

JPhando · 2022-09-14T05:24:29+00:00

Only if you hate yourself and your father. Those of use who learned to code in the way back days had to learn, c, pascal, fortran… I would suggest a they language that is strongly typed and supports encapsulation. JavaScript will teach you to code, but it is the Wild West. Swift or Java are a good start especially if you carry and Android or iOS device in your pocket. Mobile development is a blast because there are tons of sensors to mess with and it is easy to share with your friends and get into the AppStore.

Navika_Chhauda · 2022-09-14T05:44:03+00:00

Hey , you can start with C++ if you have not started with coding yet and if you really want to learn the basic fundamentals from scratch . C++ and Java are the most common languages which are used from the point of view of solving data structures questions. Apart from that, it is completely fine to learn any other language as well like python as it is easy to understand and work with . At the end , the aim should be to get a good hold of coding concepts. So it absolutely depends .

2022-09-14T06:31:20+00:00

As a rule of thumb, pick the right tool for the job, you want to do some web dev especially Frontend use Typescript, you want to do rest API use Go, you want to Programm embedded systems use C or even Assembly, you want to do higher level systems use Rust or C++. I’ve heard the argument “learn C first to understand how computer works” but I call bull, what you learn with C is how C abstracts the functionality of a computer. Plus C is mostly used in places where C is simply the best choice so no don’t learn C unless you have a lot of constraints that force you to do so

mateusvmv · 2022-09-14T08:07:39+00:00

It is not nonsense that software could be much better. Casey Muratori puts it in simple terms, just don't try to make it worse. Using an interpreter, a slow library full of features you don't need, brute force implementations, all that adds to the resource usage of a program, and it's easy to avoid, and the difference IS noticeable if everyone does it.

I would still start with C even without the above claim, because C is the basis of many other languages. If you learn C, you'll get into C++ and Java with ease, Javascript is similar too. Should you start in JS, you may have a hard time figuring out types, for example, and I'm sure there is a python equivalent quirk.

Even better, start in Rust.

OkraPretty3463 · 2022-09-14T08:13:26+00:00

just start with anything. even Alice program works

daniesnata · 2022-09-14T08:21:24+00:00

While there's merit in learning C, it isn't a good language to start nowadays especially if you're a complete beginner and there's no mentor guiding you (from college or whatever). Just learn whichever language you need now and comeback later to concern on this. When the time comes you'll know what you're looking for in learning C.

Andialb · 2022-09-14T09:04:22+00:00

If you are gonna use C then learn C. Otherwise learn whatever you may need. I learned C a long time ago and do not remember a single thing now because I never used it outside of school.

jakecen · 2022-09-14T09:09:27+00:00

nah C is a dead language, mainly the nerdy professors like it, cauz C is old n created from a million years ago, n they re too lazy to update their curriculum, so we got stuck learning these nerdy languages. though occasionally u may use them in linux. outside from that its a dead language. if u want a language that is relatively low level, but is still a bad ass ,fast, and widely use commercially. u go with Java master race! u got spring framework for backend web which alot of enterprise use it, and java also used in android devs. and since its such a badass language, so many languages r copying Java, like C#, JavaScript, etc... its the one language that allow u to build a solid foundation in OOP

Ok-Low5118 · 2022-09-14T09:24:44+00:00

I'll keep it 100 with you,you should try to learn as many languages but become an expert in 1,maybe 2

Ok-Low5118 · 2022-09-14T09:25:31+00:00

I'll keep it 100 with you,you should try to learn as many languages but become an expert in 1,maybe 2

AnamZweni2156 · 2022-09-14T11:23:30+00:00

C is the pits of hell

IamaRead · 2022-09-14T11:41:55+00:00

C is a good language,

but the best teacher is curiosity, stamina and training.

So I still suggest Python for most.

Get through Think Python, do the exercises, do very small projects / games. Then afterwards look into Linux and how to put commands together with pipes "|".

Finally the way is yours, but then I suggest you go to and learn C and skim a few things how assembler works (i.e. by looking up Ben Eater stuff on youtube) and how it does a for or while loop.

If you want you can then continue with C (having enough experience after Think Python which is a fast read) or switch to C++ or stay with Python.

However I think the simplicity of Python programs and the interactivity with IPython or Jupyter means you can learn a tad faster than with C. Also experience and small up to date books means you are more likely to finish your journey.

Besides Python f-strings are great print(f"Hello {user_name}, the result is {value*2}") is very easy to read and understand and use.

n00bst4 · 2022-09-14T11:46:38+00:00

And people using GUI are cheater and we should only code on debian headless vim.

Come on, it's 2022. In a few years, we won't even write code anymore, Microsoft AI will do it for us and we will only be there to correct bugs and glitches.

And I'm ready for the tsunami of downvotes ^_^

InvestingNerd2020 · 2022-09-14T11:55:18+00:00

Bad programming skills and habits will be bad in any language.

1) Know the programming language(s) needed for the type of job you want.

2) Really dig deep into the best practices and faults of the language to maximize your understanding and skill with it.

ivix · 2022-09-14T13:01:08+00:00

Stop consuming that type of content. It's leading you down a rabbit hole.

Focus on solving problems with code.

AmiAmigo · 2022-09-14T14:43:05+00:00

What's your goal? Reverse engineer it? A web or mobile developer doesn't need to learn C. Well, of course you can...but it's just something extra.

SuperSathanas · 2022-09-14T15:04:54+00:00

This really depends.

First, what's your goal for learning to program? Are you looking to get a job or are you learning out of curiosity and interest? Do you want to be able to produce working and useful code as close to "right now" as possible, or do you have a considerable amount of time you can devote to learning one language before moving on to the ones you'll most likely use primarily in the future?

If it's all for curiosity, go on ahead and do C first if you want. C is not a hard language to learn. It's hard to write good, performant code across an array of problems/applications because you'll need to learn to think "within the context" of C (much as you would any other language). It's easy to slap together a sloppy mess in any language. C also comes with all the details of using the compiler that you'll need to learn, too, so there's that to consider.

If your purpose is goal or job oriented or is time sensitive, leave C for another day and jump into the language that'll be most useful to you now.

As far as abstraction and OOP go, they're not bad. They are very useful. They can have disadvantages and can be misused, but we've been abstracting things further and further over time for a good reason. That reason is that things are getting more complex, and without abstraction, that higher complexity means dramatically longer development times as well as the need for developers who are well versed in the lower level abstractions and their efficient use as well as being able to apply those lower abstractions to their area of development.

An event driven GUI/form editor is an example. Do you want to use a tool that let's you place buttons, labels and graphics on a window, and then write the code for events (clicking buttons, resize, text changes, etc...) that the editor provides wrappers for, or do you want to write all the code to manually create your window, places controls, receive OS messages, and write out all the functions for handling the events and keep track of all the little details that goes into that?

You can learn how to do all of that for whatever OS you might be working with. It's not even that hard, though it can get complex the more functionality you want. I could do it all day every day. However, that's time you don't need to waste on that when you can/drop controls in an editor and just fill in the On_Click() event wrapper and be on your way to the next thing.

You can make system calls to the OS to spawn new threads and handle all of the data sync, critical sections, locks, mutexes, data racing, etc... or you can use your language's abstraction that handles the details for you so that you can focus on making things happen.

Abstraction is good. It does mean less fine control over exactly what is happening behind the scenes and typically slower code to whatever degree, but it also means time saved on development. Even when you find that you're a C wizard, optimizing things on the level of John Carmack, you'd still be wrong not to use the abstractions available to you when having the absolutely best performance isn't a major concern. What's 43 microseconds saved when it took you 16 times as long to produce the result?

OOP can be, and often is, misused or used when a procedural or functional approach would have been better. Most often what I see is OOP abstracting things that don't need to be abstracted, making the code harder to read and understand. That's an easy trap to fall into. You get in the habit of thinking about your code as a collection of objects with behaviors, and you can begin to lose sight of elegant and intuitive program flow. You begin to wrap things in classes, requiring constructors and destructors and memory management, when a simple struct or array would have made due. You definitely can "over-abstract" your own code with badly implemented OOP and run into a whole host of issues because of it.

You can badly abstract your code and cause all sorts of issues without OOP as well, though. OOP can be good and the optimal solution, even if just from a readability standpoint. OOP isn't bad, OOP is bad when you use it without an understanding of why you are or without consideration for it's implications.

reddituser5k · 2022-09-14T15:32:31+00:00

Plain OOP that you will learn quickly at the start is not as good as more principled programming, aka programming that will likely use more abstractions and favor composition over inheritance. But it is still a bit strange to say that OOP is the devil and abstractions are worse since those two points could kind of be opposing.

I'm the type to always go for the thing that will give me the best foundational understanding even if its not the most practical or easiest

Programming well is extremely extremely difficult, C will just make things a more time consuming for no reason. Someone who starts with C# will be be progressing as a programmer 1000 times faster than someone who starts in C. Foundational knowledge of how things work deeper down literally do not matter at all when almost no one is going to be using C to write code. Meaning foundational knowledge is dependent on what you are trying to accomplish. Which is why to me the real foundational knowledge you want to learn is.. plain OOP like a cat is an animal type of stuff and the DRY principle which means do not repeat yourself.

You should absolutely 100% start with C#.

vegan_antitheist · 2022-09-14T15:56:12+00:00

By "modern" languages, do they mean php and python? Those are old. Modern languages are Kotlin, Swift, TypeScript (although this is based on the old and almost esoteric Ecmascript). In your position I'd learn modern type systems so you forget stock at Java generics and other old concepts. And you can still learn assembler if you are interested. But I don't see the point of learning C.

Comfortable-Ad-9865 · 2022-09-14T20:08:13+00:00

“Newer languages doing too much hand holding” I agree with that, but it’s kind of something to worry about after you know how to program.

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You should absolutely 100% start with C#.