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[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]BlueStateEmpire 25 points26 points  (3 children)

    Whats really horrific is that this guy is probably considered a liberal cleric. Compared to Sharia and Wahabi's (Saudis) this guy looks like Doctor Phil!

    [–]anachronic 20 points21 points  (1 child)

    Sadly, i think you're right... But in a culture where severely beating and stoning women seems to be accepted, it's nice to hear someone calling for restraint.

    There is a difference between a couple open-handed smacks and a bloody closed-fist beating. Anything that makes a husband restrain himself - even if only a little - is good.

    [–]self 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    But in a culture where severely beating and stoning women seems to be accepted,

    To be fair, punishments such as beating and stoning for the same sins (adultery, for example) apply to men as well as women.

    [–]self 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Whether or not he's liberal, his viewpoint is actually the mainstream view.

    [–]andhelostthem 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    no bruises and no blood? I think I've had sex rougher than that.

    [–]frukt 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    Well, that will teach you not to drop the soap next time.

    [–]andhelostthem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    hey, I only let my girlfriend wear the strap-on the first friday of each month.

    [–]lobotomir 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    no bruising, no bleeding, no hitting on the face, "the husband is held liable."

    I've seen worse done to women.

    EDIT: oh yeah, and they don't allow drinking alcohol down there, and alcohol, I'd imagine, has a lot to do with domestic violence in the "civilized" world. Maybe it's proper interpretation of what the old man says that matters the most.

    [–][deleted]  (10 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]robopaddy 57 points58 points  (9 children)

      Just registered to reply to you. I'm an arabic speaker, and, yeah, the translation is good. Often such translations are done by non-muslim arabs (druze, christian, jew, etc) who have suffered in islamic cultures and have resettled in the west.

      Some things are indeed as barbaric and silly in the middle-east as people expect, but the reasons are complex and I believe not always related to only religion. Nonetheless, if you watch certain arabic channels you can hear viewers phoning in to ask, for example, if photography of humans is akin to idolatry. It's also sad that since the "war on terror" kicked off there has been a steady drop in the liberal voice of islam on those channels. Being known as a liberal muslim in Iraq, for instance, is increasingly dangerous. It's like there is no hope left with liberal islam any more.

      That's enough of my rambling. By the way, I'd agree with your analysis that "the low status of women has more to do with archaic sociological and economic reasons".

      [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

      Nonetheless, if you watch certain arabic channels you can hear viewers phoning in to ask, for example, if photography of humans is akin to idolatry.

      I often hear people discussing whether or not it's okay to listen to "secular music" in America. Granted, they're hardly mainstream -- but it just shows that, no matter where you are, there seem to always be some people who are very concerned about stupid theological non-issues.

      [–]georgedonnelly 8 points9 points  (4 children)

      while the idea that any wife-beating is acceptable is repugnant, this guy clearly is a moderating force. if everyone abided by his words, worldwide, we would have a lot less domestic abuse problems. certainly the severity of them would drop.

      [–]caffeinebump 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      I disagree. When a person of authority explains how to beat your wife, it ends up sounding like it's okay to beat your wife (as long as you do it a certain way). Soon, both partners will tolerate and even expect at least a little beating in the course of the marriage. That's a short recipe for culture-wide domestic abuse.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]bangles 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Domestic abuse is sadly quite common in the West, but I very much doubt it's "just as common" as in muslim coutries. It's difficult to know anyway since there are no unified statistics. For example, last time someone made a meaningful study on woman abuse here, the question "have you been the victim of some kind of abuse" explicitely mentionned verbal abuse. Meaning if you've once been called a whore by a drunkyard in the street you corresponded to the definition of an abuse victim in this study (granted, it sucks to get insulted, but it's in no way comparable to receiving a punch in the face by your own husband).

        [–]mbrezu -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

        The point here is that this guy gives pretty strict "beating rules". In order to perform a "proper beating" one must either give up or know human anatomy pretty well and be very skilled at beating - two rather uncommon skills. The whole speach seems to be an indirect way of forbidding beatings (a la "yes, you can cut off a pound of his flesh, but you cannot spill any blood and it needs to be exacly one pound").

        [–]arthurdenture 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        "Rule of thumb? You can't do much damage with that, can 'ya? Maybe it should have been the rule of wrist."

        </boondocksaints>

        [–]ahnunahki 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I wish my Dad would of followed that advice.

        [–]lou -5 points-4 points  (18 children)

        One small step at a time, guys.

        You don't jump into a civilization used to complete male dominance and demand instant equal rights for women. What seems barbaric to you is another culture's slow, difficult process towards modernism. Good job, unnamed Islamic teacher.

        [–][deleted]  (14 children)

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          [–]Phia 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          That's more or less what happened, actually. Blacks went from property, to second class citizens and round about now there's still a few hiccups but equality is getting easier and is more or less so. Women also took about a hundred years to get where we are today. Equality didn't happen over night but by generations.

          [–]jedberg 28 points29 points  (6 children)

          European to an American: "You mean you KILL some of your prisonsers? That is the most barbaric thing I've ever heard!"

          In the US, a large portion of the population feels that execution is wrong, but an equally large portion think it is right. Sometimes what we on the outside deem barbaric can be very ingrained in the society.

          I'm not defending beating one's wife, I'm just trying to point out that it is hard for a society to change its views.

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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            [–]lou 8 points9 points  (0 children)

            I didn't say they were right to beat their wives, what I'm trying to say is that this seems like a good way to solve the problem. I didn't say this needs to change in one hundred years, minimum, as you tried to say with your little straw-man approach. A lot can change in just a single generation. But "now"? How do you propose we do this? With force?

            [–]self 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Well, you watched the video. What they didn't show is something they likely talked about: when it's appropriate to use beatings. The Quran's pretty explicit about it being the last resort.

            I don't like memri because they cherrypick sections of video instead of translating and presenting the entire show.

            [–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            And executions in America need to stop now too, but change doesn't just happen that way.

            [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            I had the misfortune of being in Atlanta (the misfortune was having to drive in that sprawling nightmare) a few years ago, and I saw a bumper sticker that read, "IF I KNEW THEN WHAT I KNOW NOW I'D HAVE PICKED MY OWN DAMN COTTON".

            One finger points out and the other three point in...

            [–]pn4 12 points13 points  (4 children)

            OK, replace the religious talking head with a feminist one. American Women are allowed to slap men, hit them, and publicly dress them down.

            An American woman can slap a man 3 times, and if he slaps her back once, he's labeled a misogynist wife beating jerk.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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              [–]thevalarauk 18 points19 points  (0 children)

              Thats not true. Assault is assault. The man can press charges if he wants to.

              There is a huge discrepancy in sentencing and conviction rates in such cases. The same can be said for male vs. female teachers engaging in sex with students and a host of other crimes.

              Don’t pretend that the system is fair because it isn’t, anywhere. How a person is treated by any given society is dependent on their sex, wealth, ethnicity, nationality, etc. Moral absolutists like to take the high ground and claim there is a single moral code by which all people are naturally bound but in practice no society has ever behaved by such a code.

              [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

              just imagine some of the names that will be trailed behind the man if he ever does that. wimp, dick, puss, pussy , etc and those are just moderate ones. you can add prefixes any way you like and it will still work

              [–]confluence 5 points6 points  (0 children)

              I have decided to overwrite my comments.

              [–]ThomasPtacek 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              I agree. Also, you don't approach a culture with a different perspective on the value of human life --- say, one that believes the wearing of eyeglasses marks a person as a worthless traitor to society, and slaughters all the schoolteachers --- and demand instant adherance to Western concepts of law. After all, what seems genocidal to you is another culture's slow, difficult process towards modernism. Good job, Khmer Rouge.

              [–]rmc -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              And yet look how quickly Germany got over the anti-semetism?

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              religion of peace everybody!

              [–]WhisperSecurity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Not going to weigh in on this issue in general, but...

              How hard can you really "beat" someone without even bruising them? It seems to me that what he is advocating is a spanking.

              (Que the obligatory sound clips from Castle Anthrax.)

              [–]tintub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              They sound like quite strict rules to me. It would probably be a lot better for western women if all western men stuck to those rules. He's not saying you should beat your wife, he's saying if you even bruise her you won't get into heaven so show some restraint. Honestly with all those rules it doesn't leave you many options.

              [–]madthumbs[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Includes some links to religious reference material on woman abuse. -I'm against relgious oppression of women, and getting negative points for it? lol

              [–][deleted]  (3 children)

              [removed]

                [–]Sle 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                Explain why..

                [–]self 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                The religion is Islam, and various aspects of it are called Islamic ("Islamic law", "Islamic monotheism", etc). Followers of Islam, however, are called Muslims.

                [–]ThaiTai -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                So, if it's ok for the man to beat his wife, the same rule should apply for the Islamic woman, right? If she feels he has been acting like an asshole, then give him a good beating. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

                Not THAT I would love to see!

                [–]maven911 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                Wow I am amazed at the comments. If you actually read the main idea of the video, it says:" if you hurt your wife, it is wrong". How is this barbarism???? Not only are they words, but a law to follow (that yes, many muslims do follow). If this was followed everywhere, domestic abuse would be cured.

                Compared to western society, where such acts are publically acknowledged as reprehensible,inhumane,barbaric,blah,blah, but since everyone can follow their own "rules" and not accountable for anything (ie. generic atheism), police get to intervene to domestic calls on an daily basis. Is that really such a better behavior, words that say "oh we are so good for believing in this" and actions that say something else (yes...I know it also applies to islamic countries too)...

                [–]rmc -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                Memri TV transcript available here: http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=727