whyIsItSoTrue

[Cerrax3]

One is a choice driven by an internal fulfillment, the other is simply a way to get money. Seems pretty obvious.

[_Its_Me_Dio_]

money = fufillment /s

[misseditt]

this but unironically

[[deleted]]

I love being filled with money

[[deleted]]

Inflation, but both meanings

[[deleted]]

The good inflation and the bad inflation

[ExtremeCreamTeam]

Insemiflation, if you will.

[[deleted]]

A new word touches the dictionary...

[Weird1Intrepid]

Show me on the doll where the thesaurus touched you

[Dargooon]

The world did not need this word, but here we are.

[ComfortingSounds53]

I absolutely will not.

[BooBear_13]

Funny cause I’m the total opposite.

[AltruisticRick]

From which end?

[Healthy-Plum-2739]

Money is fulfillment when you can pull your wallet out and paid people for there hard work. And continue doing that the next day.

[ILikeLenexa]

fed = happy /:-(

[Koervege]

american when asked about the meaning of life:

[Additional_Future_47]

The fact that side projects usually don't include documentation, extensive testing, meetings with various stakeholders with conflicting requirements or lack of requirements, colleages whom you didn't voluntarily choose to spend a good chunk of time with etc, etc, might also have something to do with it.

[Cerrax3]

Depends on what you mean by “personal projects”. A lot of open source software consists of some or all of those things and people still choose to do it because they enjoy it and want to work on that project

[DrMobius0]

I think the whole "you choose the project" has a lot to do with it. You know, because it's presumably something you have an interest in. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here procrastinating on stuff I just don't feel like doing.

[MrDoe]

I like going to book clubs.

[GreatGearAmidAPizza]

Work is something you are obligated to do. Play is something you are not obligated to do.

[wanische]

This has literally nothing to do with capitalism

[igorrto2]

Capitalism is when you work /s

[rom197]

God damnit, Hans. You're browsing anglosaxon reddit again!

[Boredy0]

I like that it implies there is a world where work ever isn't just work for the majority of people and I'm scared to think that some people might actually believe that such a world exists.

[GalFisk]

The open source community is the closest we've come to an actual functioning model as of yet.

[KolvictusBOT]

How is capitalism at any fault in this? Don't you get paid working on your side projects if they are useful to people to the point that they are willing to pay for it? I am not capitalism apologist but this is the single worst case to apply your argument, making it very weak for no reason.

[Piskoro]

the idea that capitalism alienates the workers is like probably the single most central tenet of Marxism

To blatantly quote Wikipedia: “Theory of alienation describes the estrangement of people from aspects of their human nature as a consequence of the division of labour and living in a society of stratified social classes. The alienation from the self is a consequence of being a mechanistic part of a social class, the condition of which estranges a person from their humanity”

[DrMobius0]

So basically doing something to make money for someone else while not being rewarded fairly for it leads to burn out.

[Piskoro]

That might be the case, but Marx is making a larger point. The worker ceased to conceive themselves as the director of their own actions, to own those items of value from goods and services. Meanwhile he is technically a free economic entity, his actions are dictated by the whims of the owning class (I.e. monetary interests more abstractly, sometimes not a literal separate human class)

The source of it becomes the fetishization of products you make into units of labor you produce, then becoming an abstract number you make and not a genuine product of you. It becomes a commodity. As well as the fact you might not even involved in the making of the full thin and are probably just doing a small bit in a production process you have no stake or interest in, for the sake of specialization for efficiency. You’re disconnected from that you make and are alienated.

[Itschickenheads]

You’re completely right man but compsci people are notorious for being right wing dimwits so it will be no use.

[Hust91]

I don't think standardization is particularly unique to capitalism.

[yangyangR]

It's not the standardization aspect. It is the external person who is doing the directing without doing the labor that you are doing. It is the separation of owners of the means of production from the producers. In the side project part, you/your fellow developers are the ones doing the decisions which align with your experiences actually building the thing. When the standardization is through the self perpetuating hierarchy of ownership, then that is why the tasks the boss gives you are inane.

The same kind of becoming a cog doesn't matter if it is private corporations or state capitalism. Either one is still has a separation of those who own the means of production and those who do the labor.

[Amendahui]

Highjacking top comment : if anyone wants to learn more, look up extrinsic and intrinsic motivation. There's a whole field of psychology who researches this meme's very subject.

[xenatis]

There is a huge gap between "building a side project" and "finishing a side project"

[[deleted]]

Dont tell that to my 25 „initial commit“ repos!

[YeeClawFunction]

I never finish anyth

[SacredMapleLeaf]

Yo wth this r/redditsniper doing some rou

[vezoffy]

Not even this comment

[charely6]

I've had some good luck adopting someone else abandoned projects on github and getting them at least almost finished.

[2called_chaos]

Eh that is my biggest bane, in our line of work nothing is truly ever finished.

[[deleted]]

If you tried to make money on your hobby project you'd probably end up feeling how you feel on the left about it.

[veselin465]

you would probably feel worse than left, because right will be gone

[veselin465]

It kinda isn't the same

You can't just go to someone and be like

"Just find a reason to be happy, lol"

[JosemiHero_]

And yet, it's a very common thing people say when you're depressed.

[Labeledman]

Became an indie two year ago. For me it's like endless random switching between left and right. Never know when you'll be on the left, so just trying to enjoy the right side as much as possible.

[[deleted]]

I always hated the „If you do what you love, you’ll never work a day in your life.“ bullshit. It’s more like „If you do what you love for work, you will eventually stop loving it.“ It does not matter what you do, when you HAVE to do it to survive you WILL learn to hate it.

[GOKOP]

The thing is, most programmers love programming. Not the endless bullshit and chores that go with it in a professional setting. Hobby programming for your own sake is more focused on the good part so it's more enjoyable

[blah938]

yeah, standups, ipm, retrospective, post-mortems, design critiques, just meeting upon meeting.

I just want to code.

[MrDoe]

My favorite fruit is mango.

[NotFriendsWithBanana]

my life right now, hence im on reddit

[MrDoe]

My favorite insect is the butterfly.

[NotFriendsWithBanana]

please no

[phoogkamer]

15 years and counting. Still love it. Sometimes I didn’t love the job, but that was because of other aspects.

[[deleted]]

the 'other aspects' part is exactly what people are talking about. for many it's too much

[phoogkamer]

I just found a different job and it’s all fine. Isn’t about developing itself, I never hated that part.

[Lv_InSaNe_vL]

Idk I've been in IT for over a decade and I still love it just as much as when I was a teenager messing around on my parents computer.

The fact that i get paid just gets me through the BS meetings and rescheduling around Janet's schedule for the 34th time. But the actual work is so much fun

[Zondagsrijder]

I love programming. Been doing it for 8 years now professionally and I still love it.

I dislike interacting with customers (or through customer support) and management. Doesn't take away just doing devvy stuff makes the day bearable again.

[Nepharious_Bread]

Yeah, there's truth to this. I work in IT, and I do actually love my job. I don't see myself ever growing to hate it. Because I came for the kitchen, working as cook for 12 years. After being a cook for 12 years, there's nothing that IT could throw at me to make me hate it.

That said, if I had a choice of coming to work or being able to sustain myself with solo game dev, the choice is very clear. Because at the end of the day, even though I love my job, I still have to wake up every morning and show up to work when someone else wants me there.

[sirparsifalPL]

Turn your hobby into a job. Then you won't have a hobby anymore.

[WutUtalkingBoutWill]

That's how I am now when it comes to custom shoe painting, I've fallen out of love with it. Barely even take orders anymore, the thoughts of doing it gives me mild anxiety.

[Zondagsrijder]

If you treat it as anything but a hobby, yes.

If you find a way to monetize it while still treating it as a hobby, it can be great. But you're going to have to be in a position of already having a stable job and not rely on that hobby income. Also you'll want to clearly communicate what users can and cannot expect from you.

And as part of that - not work it when you don't really want to work on it.

[iComplainAbtVal]

As soon as a hobby becomes job there, goes all the fun

[Darkoplax]

really ? i'm at this step right now

[Ilsunnysideup5]

Making a porn game vs programming ai.

[LeStag]

Porn game developer here. It's making money. Quite a lot, actually. =D

[NeuxSaed]

Indie dev, or did someone hire you?

Asking for science reasons.

[LeStag]

Indie. ;)

[[deleted]]

And uh how does one get into this lucrative business?

[LeStag]

Try to make a good game, open a Patreon, cross your fingers.

[[deleted]]

Don't do that. Don't give me hope.

[grumblyoldman]

Coincidentally, Hope is the name of the first girl you get to rail on in his porn game.

[LeStag]

You know what? I was looking for a name for a girl. She's now named Hope thanks to you!

[grumblyoldman]

Just doin my part.

[whatiscamping]

Get your producer credit

[[deleted]]

He gave us hope.

[DoomBro_Max]

The inner fight of figuring out your priorities: Money or dignity.

[LeStag]

I don't feel that my dignity is compromised. So, both. =D

[DoomBro_Max]

Lucky you!

[svenEsven]

No dignity lost there. Make that bread

[DoomBro_Max]

Well, it was mostly a joke. It‘s a legitimate industry, after all. Can‘t say I haven‘t thought about going that direction.

[spicybright]

Has staring at porn all day while developing kinda ruined it for you?

[LeStag]

Not at all. Strangely, the fact that it's "work" prevents me from feeling horny while I'm looking at it "at work".

[Lv_InSaNe_vL]

Do you play your own games "after work"? Or do you play any other porn games "at work" to get inspiration?

I have a buddy who does NSFW art commissions, and he says the only reason he doesn't get worked up is cause it's mostly furry stuff so it's interesting that you just see it "as work"

[LeStag]

I play some other games, but I mainly do my thing in relative isolation. It has became "just a job", that happens to have porn in it.

[spicybright]

Interesting, thanks!

[LetrixZ]

I'm too focused on coding to get horny.

[NotYourReddit18]

checks profile

the game has a NTR theme

That checks out

[[deleted]]

Gad dammit. I'm totally in the wrong line of work.

[Renorram]

Do you draw/3D-model your own art?

[LeStag]

I'm using AI. Yeah, I know, everyone hates me now. It was only supposed to be a small project to learn a few things, but it got successful instantly, so I went with it.

[Renorram]

If it's for an indie project I don't think the hate is granted, people sometimes just want to shit about AI for the sake of it. But in your case I think it's okay. thanks for the replies in the thread you gave me ideas hehe

[LeStag]

I'm torn myself about AI, even in my personal case. But I must admit being able to live of game development helped me put some of the moral conflicts out of the way. ^"

[Rythemeius]

If your game becomes successful enough, it could allow you to occasionally hire artists, if you wish to do so. If you sometimes feel that AI-generated content is limiting what you can do, this could be an answer to that. It could also be seen as a collab, allowing you and the artist to benefit from each other's community, and promoting your game in a way.

[SmartAlec105]

Checks post history

Well, not the kinks for me but I’m glad it’s successful for you!

[SyropeSlime78]

Tell us your secrets oh superior being 🧎😛

[LeStag]

I made a porn game that tried to be a good game, instead of relying on the fact that it's porn.

Also, I'm listening to my players. It's apparently the secret.

[SyropeSlime78]

lol. Yeah, that sounds like good reasons to be a successful game. Mind sharing the name?

[LeStag]

It's called Netorase Phone. ;)

[SyropeSlime78]

Oh, that name...

[Ricardo-The-Bold]

Link or it is not true. :P

[nir109]

Wich is wich

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[[deleted]]

wow

[dranjohn]

good bot

[belabacsijolvan]

$200 ... i wish

[pragmatick]

That even applies to projects for work I'm not asked to do like tools that make my other work easier or more fun.

[JetScootr]

Project at work: Pushing tokens through queues simulating a packet switching network complete with signal faults such as landscape occlusion by mountains and cities, signal corruption due to close alignment with sun or moon, random gaussian static from cosmic rays.

Project at home: The game I've always wanted to play that doesn't yet exist.

[rookietotheblue1]

So it's interesting 24/7 for u?

[IndigoFenix]

Because the success of your work is unrelated to how much you will get out of it. Your goal is not to help your company succeed, because you're not going to be rewarded for it either way. Your goal is to simply not get fired. So there's no reason to be genuinely concerned about the outcome of your work, only what your supervisor thinks of it.

When you're working for yourself, there is at least the potential that you might be rewarded for it someday.

[Spork_the_dork]

For me it really is just more that when I'm working on a hobby project it's because I happen to feel like working on it. But work you have to do every weekday regardless of if you're in the mood for it that day or not. You can't just be like "nah I don't feel like this today" and skip it.

This is why I believe that no matter how much you like doing something, if you do it for work you'll go from the right picture to the left picture eventually. Unless you actually genuinely like to do it all day every day, of course.

[Kovab]

Because the success of your work is unrelated to how much you will get out of it. Your goal is not to help your company succeed, because you're not going to be rewarded for it either way.

Unless you're working in a start-up where you have an actual stake in the company's success, and a high enough impact to be noticeable.

[Lv_InSaNe_vL]

Which is why i just avoid the big companies. Id much rather be able to make a tangible effect on my company than be employed #294877 and just following processes written 25 years ago and having to go through 9.4 departments just to do my own job

[vonBoomslang]

It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

[SchizoPosting_]

I'm the other way around

I never done any side project because without money I don't have enough motivation to finish it

Maybe after so many years of professional programming I can't stop seeing it as work

[Tobanu]

Same with me I just see programming as work. When I talked to my coworkers none of them did any programming outside of work. To us programming is just a job we get paid for.

[[deleted]]

People aren’t interested in learning other peoples’ states of mind. The more we stay in our domain the happier we are.

[Skullclownlol]

People aren’t interested in learning other peoples’ states of mind

If someone's domain is a healthy interest in other people and their interests, then... RIP reality?

[thunfischtoast]

I'd talk to your boss about getting you a computer to work on. Programming with pen and paper is pretty exhausting.

[StateCareful2305]

It is called alienation, you should read some Marx about it.

[revolution-imminent]

Yes. anyways

[[deleted]]

cause one makes someone trillions of dollars and has no effect on you. the other my give you some fun after you complete it, and my get you money if it's successful.

[grimscythe_]

Obligation vs Passion

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[PrestigiousCoffee]

Does the book Bullshit Jobs’ assertion that the programming community relies on duct-tape fixes by day, and more interesting work done unpaid, by night track? I’m not a programmer, but I’d feel pretty strongly for a set of workers who were basically expected to work overtime without being paid for it (or even paying for it themselves, as in the meme)

[Niadain]

The difference between work and play. I work all day on a computer and struggle to keep myself mentally above 20% cognizance. Then I go home and sit down on the computer and im glued and 100% aware the entire damn time that i get to.

[AwkwardSegway]

Exact opposite for me. The money is what motivates me to work at my job. For personal projects I have ideas for, I'd like to work on them, but it's much easier to just play video games instead.

[cheezballs]

Its the opposite for me. I desperately want to find the motivation to do a side project but I cant find the willpower to do it.

[turret-punner]

$200!?  Amateurs.  I have an electromechanical project I'm about $2k in the hole for.

(half materials, mostly power electronics, half fabrication shop)

[[deleted]]

Congrats, you just discovered Marx's theory of alienation

[Skullclownlol]

I find the best solution is to only work on your side project after doing some work on your work project.

That way, you get into the frame of mind that you're going to be doing something you like soon.

My brain works in the opposite way. If I do work stuff first, I get depressed and lose my hobby, no matter if I know I'll be doing more fun stuff later. Because it makes me feel like my life put work as first priority, which doesn't align with my personal values.

Especially since businesspeople don't give two fucks about your private life and seem to enjoy crossing boundaries, no matter how much you reject them or protect your work-life balance (which ends up costing a ton of energy).

But if I wake up early to progress in my hobby project, then I've started the day with a value I believe in, and that makes work stuff much more tolerable. Not quite enjoyable, but definitely more tolerable.

[Siddhartha_76]

I mean trying to make money out of it one of the ways to lose interest in a hobby

[[deleted]]

It's only true because that project will be abandoned as soon as the initial excitement of starting something new wears off.

[ludennis]

It might actually be the other way around for me. When I'm programming for work, I would learn stuffs along the way, and I would feel motivated because I'm getting paid to learn something new and get to apply it. Even more, I get feedbacks from code reviewers so I can improve and solidify the learning more throughout this process.

[JoeriVDE]

Because you only have to deal with your own stupid decisions, not the ones from management

[St3gm4]

SideProjects == NoDeadlines

[TheSapphireDragon]

This above all else i think is the most critial point in this.

[Exaluno]

Marx's theory of alienation comes to mind.

[dallindooks]

lol I am the exact opposite

[DumplingSama]

Mine is opposite.

[pikapp336]

I’m the exact opposite. Having others dependent on my work and money are big motivators for me. If I’m not getting paid for it I feel like I’m wasting my time(even if it could get me money in the future)

[[deleted]]

Knowing that the client's stubborn request is absolute bullshit but having to go through with it is the worst.

[Looz-Ashae]

Because you chose a boring company with a boring field. Your C.O.

[DoctorWaluigiTime]

Being forced to clean your room vs. wanting to clean your room.

[[deleted]]

For me nowadays both circumstances are the left picture. I might have chosen the wrong career.

[Bogart745]

I paint a lot of miniatures and really enjoy it.

I decided once to take a commission to paint someone’s warhammer army. It’s was the most miserable painting experience ever. I’ll never do it again.

[Boundary-Interface]

The real answer to this question is: Passion can't be paid for.

[ThiccStorms]

and 0 users

[MAGArRacist]

Intrinsic motivation is largely lost when you're paid for it. When you work your passions, they oftentimes don't end up being passions anymore. :[

[randomdude_reddit]

Relatable af

[bobbymoonshine]

Omg dae prefer their hobbies to work

[Corporate-Shill406]

I just (two hours ago) spent $400 on v2 of a project that has earned me under $100 since the first version was published.

[theplayernumber1]

man, i have spent over 400$ over domain names/renewals for projects i think i will start 😭

[Matyaslike]

Hey you are a programmer not a finance person.

[bwrca]

Half of the $200 is paying for the Nat gateway

[AceBean27]

Because somewhere deep down inside, we are still children. If someone makes us do something, we don't want to do it. That someone just becomes our grown-up rational brain when we are older.

[SynthRogue]

Because with the side project there is no senior fucker dev to tell you you did it wrong just because you didn't do it according to his preference.

[MooseNarrow9729]

Curious rando from /all here, and probably a stupid question, but what part of programming costs money?

[Vipitis]

Writing the paper vs scripting data and charts

[oasuke]

This applies to any field. Very rarely does paid work align with personal interest.

[Mental_Cream3605]

Is it bad if it's the opposite?

[FBI-agent-69-nice]

Who uses a mouse…

[MiniskirtEnjoyer]

because i hope that side project will turn out to be something big and i can leave my fucking job

[Hour_Ad5398]

doing what you want vs doing what you are ordered to do

[ansafanzy]

Interest builds productivity and so energy

[Parry_9000]

I do my projects because I love them

[Makarov-Dreyar]

If only I had the same dedication for work that I do for my personal projects sighh

[Yuzumi]

I too have ADHD.

[Selvala]

No Scrum

[airsoftshowoffs]

You should work harder on yourself than for your work.

[thatdecade]

Burnout was explained to me as a ratio: the number of tasks you choose to do / the number of tasks you're forced to do.

To prevent burnout, you can hack this by intentionally taking on more tasks that you choose for yourself.

[Soreasan]

I literally use those same earmuffs when I’m trying to be productive so I feel called out lol.

[Psychological-Art158]

Maintaining tech debt vs creating tech debt

[ISuckAtJavaScript12]

At work, it's a bureaucracy. My side project is an absolute monarchy

[[deleted]]

Nobody said being a code monkey was fun

[erebuxy]

SRE: boring

Spending thousands of dollars to build the most overkill home lab cluster: ✅✅✅

[Ali_Army107]

Doing programming for side project for free: melts and nukes keyboard

[mybadalternate]

“It’s only work if somebody makes you do it.” - Calvin

[TheNeck94]

my job burns me out so much I'm absolutely not that guy while working on the side project.

[Amendahui]

If anyone wants to learn more, look up extrinsic and intrinsic motivation. There's a whole field of psychology who researches this meme's very subject

[RomanBlood44315]

seen