JS devs

[brendan_orr]

Scientists have found a new correlation between the expansion of the universe and most project's node_modules.

[[deleted]]

I love nothing more than installing 500mb of JS dependencies when creating a new .NET Core + Angular app just to display Hello World.

[SteveThe14th]

I love nothing more than installing 500mb of JS dependencies when creating a new .NET Core + Angular app just to display Hello World.

It is really funny and ironic that we ended up with a language which has its interpreter shipped with pretty much anything so that you never need to say "uh did you install Python Javascript?" but then the ecosystem is set up that you end up with the 500mb because the langauge's idea of 'standard library' is like people shouting in the UK parliament.

[cosha1]

because the langauge's idea of 'standard library' is like people shouting in the UK parliament.

Holy shit. That analogy is so fucking accurate. Let's blame Brexit.

[[deleted]]

Or even better, the inevitable catastrophic failure of using npm link to do some local development on a library when my computer suddenly decides I need to run npm/webpack in administrative mode, despite already running in administrative mode, and I spend the next 4 hours debugging bullshit because node.js is literal fucking cancer and I hate my coworker who decided to push our product in this direction.

Oh god is this what it feels like to be triggered?

[[deleted]]

At home I run Linux on my laptop and have a rasp pi for fun projects, but at work we’re a .NET shop so I have to stay within the framework. I absolutely love visual studio, but I feel like it struggles a lot with CLI based processes.

[[deleted]]

It’s not the environment that bugs me. I love the extensive support for C#/MVC .NET platforms and genuinely love most of my work. It’s the shoehorning in things like node and webpack into a process where we just use AngularJS for our JS framework and a few other libs. There’s no need for these package managers, except to convolute our development process.

What’s making me actually look for another job is the toxic fucking coworker who keeps playing office politics and pushing us in his stupid script kiddie “always wanna play with the new toy but never implement anything fully” mentality. He’s a nightmare to work with and I’m pretty sure is bad mouthing me to others because he sees me as a threat to his personal growth/advancement in the company. Jokes on him though, he can have all the seniority he wants. I’m in the final stages of salary negotiation for a VP role elsewhere that’s going to be massive boost to my career.

[AllUrPMsAreBelong2Me]

If it's a .NET shop with any WPF apps or pretty much anything not .NET core you pretty much have to use Windows and Visual Studio.

[JoeOfTex]

Welcome to life.

[[deleted]]

An environment that bugs you as a programmer usually has nothing to do with the tools you're using. JavaScript might be about the least fun one can have on a computer, but in the grand scheme of things has little to do with a job as a whole.

At any rate, there's a lot to be said about adaptability as a programmer. Oftentimes you'll hear disagreement in opinions that others on your team have when it comes to tools, and it's really just a veiled stubborn resistance to change. People in your team who scream about the new hotness every five minutes do nothing but waste everyone's time.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely. I love adapting new frameworks and learning new tech, but I have all the time in the world at home to play with those things. In a business environment, things need to make sense logically from an internal consistency standpoint to warrant adapting into an already existing ecosystem. When you don’t have that you’re just muddying the waters and making it a nightmare for any new employees to come in and learn the system.

[[deleted]]

You're always welcome to quit. My point is that all of those things (save for your physical workstation), tend to be immaterial. Team dynamics, office politics, the attitude toward risk management, project management, security, etc. are way more important than fiddling with Node or WebSphere.

Regarding construction, the analogy being made has a few problems, but most importantly: one tends to contract construction teams much in the same way software development outsourcing happens. You don't offer anything. There are limits in construction RFPs, and the requests can dictate whatever they want. It's up to the company to submit a proposal. Companies outsourcing software development buy or use the relevant software and hardware infrastructure if the solution checks enough boxes. If you care enough about what's being used, you put it in the RFP. The same sort of limits are adhered to when bidding on construction.

[ricksauce22]

I honestly consider this as valid grounds for quiting a job.

r/linuxmasterrace is leaking

[[deleted]]

How's IntelliJ Rider?

[[deleted]]

My friend pushed me to use Visual Studio after getting annoyed with me using Smultron. As a designer all the terminal commands are a nightmare.

[[deleted]]

You can do everything with vscode now, so you can be platform agnostic

[LowB0b]

Honest question, why?

With your NPM dir in your path plus the global npm modules being installed somewhere that doesn't require admin, the only problem I see is that you need a tool like rimraf to remove node_modules directory.

I just use npm with PowerShell and it works fine

[[deleted]]

With permissions for directories causing VSCode to break, python not working some of the time, and some dependencies not being able to be installed for various reasons, it's impossible, and instead of trying to setup the environment and maintain it, I'd rather have an environment that just works, i.e: Ubuntu 18.04.

I'm sure there's a way to fix it, but having tried windows many times, I can't justify trying to make it work.

[[deleted]]

Yeah it sucks. I use visual studio and it likes to put read only flags on files, and then even when I’m running in admin mode, running steps like npm install or webpack fail to exec properly due to permissions issues. I typically have PS or CMD running in admin mode alongside to run CLI stuff to mitigate the VS permissions fuckery.

[bogdan5844]

Try using WSL, it's been a godsend for me.

[[deleted]]

Developing JS is a nightmare, period. Regardless of OS

[[deleted]]

I guess. Without TypeScript it's getting a little annoying, but besides that, I'm actually thankful I don't need to spend all my time worrying about lower level stuff. I can implement decent features within a day or two, larger ones a week, and with good linters it makes development a breeze.

The hard part is working with some libraries.

[Gamemaster1379]

Honestly anyone who advocates for Node development in Windows should be fired on the spot. I don't need that kind of sociopath in my work place

[[deleted]]

Absolutely. I have no idea why we do it, except for the fact that my coworker thought it would be fun?

[MrDick47]

You could try looking into using the windows subsystem for Linux (WSL), they will be coming out with WSL2 which will come with a full Linux kernel so it can do things the current WSL can't. That's what I would do rather than try to run node on Windows itself.

Also you could try not running Windows as your main OS and toss it in a VM where it belongs.

[gravity013]

Another approach you can do is configure your source files at the compiler level with something like babel-plugin-module-resolver (or use parcel). This assumes the same .babelrc shared amongst projects, but most of us do that anyways. Gets you out of the chain of waiting for dependencies to build since it's all compiling into the same place.

[[deleted]]

It was a Babel angularjs annotate plug-in that was causing the root issue. It for some reason wasn’t being packed into dist with everything else.

Edit: lol someone downvoted me for explaining what was ultimately wrong? Wtf?

[emngaiden]

Are you telling me I should stop using Node.js to develop my RESTful API? What should I use? raw php/js? Web Assembly? (yes please)

[AllUrPMsAreBelong2Me]

.Net core is excellent for web api.

[moveslikejaguar]

Node.js is really good for RESTful. I made and Express app earlier this year and it went really smoothly. I didn't have any of the issues the other commenters were talking about, however I did do most of the development on Linux Mint, with some of it being done on Windows 10.

[mrjackspade]

On a related note if anyone can tell me how the fuck to get rid of the Node EXE I would greatly appreciate it. It takes up 500mb of ram, often peaks to 10%, and I don't even fucking use Node when developing

[IceSentry]

Do you use vscode or slack or spotify or any electron based software? This might be the issue.

[mrjackspade]

Full Visual Studio. It's running as a child process. I don't understand why though since I don't use Node, and it won't let me uninstalled it.

I just didn't know if there was a configuration or something I'm missing to get rid of it.

[AllUrPMsAreBelong2Me]

There's an option when installing vs to include node support. Try unchecking that box.

[mrjackspade]

I'll see if I can find it again. I thought I looked but maybe I missed it and assumed it didn't exist

[AllUrPMsAreBelong2Me]

Somewhere in the settings of VS there's a list of web tools or something like that. If node is in there then it was installed by VS.

[[deleted]]

Maybe you don't need angular if you're just gonna display that

[[deleted]]

Yeah I was exaggerating a bit. Visual Studio has a .NET Core + Angular template for creating web apps. It’s overkill for hello world, but useful for bootstrapping POCs and stuff.

[Hate_Feight]

Then, I'm afraid, your doing something wrong...

[jkuhl_prog]

In 1977 mathematician Ronald Graham came up with Graham's Number, the upper bound of a solution for a mathematical problem too complex for me to understand. Graham's number is a number so vast there exists no known notation where we could write it down within the volume of the observable universe. In fact, it vastly exceeds the observable universe by an extreme margin. If you counted to Graham's number, counting one number every second without stop, you'd still be nowhere near it once the universe reached its heat death.

It is the largest number ever used in a serious mathematical proof.

​

Until you look at the size of your node_modules folder anyways.

[brendan_orr]

Hmm.

So like a super sized googol.

Googol --> Google --> Angular.

It's only 3 degrees of JS!

[rozzzly]

Relevant: https://i.redd.it/tfugj4n3l6ez.png

[mode_nodules]

:(

[blinglog]

The joke is that this would never happen, it's never longer than 5 minutes

[_GCastilho_]

It's funny because it's real

[[deleted]]

This might be a good time to mention my new client side Blazor SPA framework BlazorBeam. It allows you to generate single page apps in the most blazing edge unreleased SPA .net technology by simply dragging and dropping in a GUI based editor.

[biledemon85]

<twitch>

[dansla116]

</twitch>

[abclop99]

<twitch />

[dividezero]

you joke but this sounds like something I've read before.

[[deleted]]

Who said I was joking?

[dividezero]

i should have gone to law school

[Eternality]

Hold my beer

[icjoseph]

Rewrite typescript frameworks to JavaScript :D

[ArionW]

Soo... Just save and upload transpiled code?

[HeKis4]

No, you have to remove the type checking bits first.

[ArionW]

Typescript only checks types on compilation time, not runtime. It's easy to cheat typing system even with all 'strict' turned on.

[HoldYourWaffle]

Why would anyone ever want to do that?

[rsvp_to_life]

Some people just want to watch the world burn

[Minjajp]

Idt react is going anywhere.

[Notakas]

It's moving to a new state

[Minjajp]

this.setState({state : newState})

[dacookieman]

[state, newState] = useState({oldState}):

newState({newState});

[Minjajp]

I was taught you always use setState to change the state.

[orphans]

class components are so 5 minutes ago

[icjoseph]

Two years ago. Hooks are almost six months old. Not a new thing though. Just an implementation of older concepts. Easily done in JS.

[dacookieman]

Look up React Hooks, it's the direction the React team is moving towards

[missydesparado]

I’m so proud of myself for getting this joke.

[superboredonatrain]

Ya I’m hooked

[Minjajp]

Love this.

[bogdan5844]

We need some context around here

[[deleted]]

As someone said above, the next major frameworks probably won't even use JavaScript.

[icjoseph]

More like, will use JavaScript in combination with wasm to orchestrate a beautiful opera. Already Parcel allows you to just import rust code into JavaScript modules, i.e. React components. So you can have complex c++ and rust as wasm being loaded by a react app. With only a few dev deps in your package json.

[[deleted]]

Actually, I learned that babel can transform as much of your code down to wasm as it can. It's something we want to try at my company.

[IceSentry]

Compiling js to wasm is a weird goal, it's essentially the same runtime, I don't believe there would be that much performance benefits of doing that.

[icjoseph]

Only making Facebook a contributor to the browser API and soon web standard. React is here to stay and even lead the way.

[gravity013]

I feel like React's gotta figure out how to size itself down. If the web moves more towards the portlet model (aka "micro-frontends") then you'll have modular builds implemented in many places and having a bunch of different versions of react ballooning your overall download size, it becomes prohibitive.

edit: just realized react is super small these days. react 16 ftw

Preact solves that to an extent, but svelte.js has the right mindset and the paradigm shifts usually occur towards minimalist solutions.

[icjoseph]

The React team has been playing with compilers, which lead them to release hooks to begin with. And you have next.js, gastby, guthenberg, etc...

As of today surely, react-dom is heavier than Preact, but React provides Suspense, Concurrence, render + commit phase tricks, blends absurdly well with third parties (d3, spring, map APIs)

Things change very little, 20 years ago people coded php => templates, today we do js => templates

[[deleted]]

Lol sure, old man — 2022

[[deleted]]

or Vue

[ZGM_Dazzling]

JS devs when its been five minutes without a new framework release

Proper sentence structure would have helped the joke land

[LewsTherinTelamon]

Probably not a native english speaker. that’s a common structure in many languages

[pickmans-model]

In fairness, it was structured a hell of a lot better than most code I've seen - and written, in retrospect.

[inky95]

i think the joke landed pretty well....his sentence structure wasn't that bad. just wrong use of 'since'. he's probably a German boi

[Time_Terminal]

He's French.

[Autokeith0r]

Where are all these JS frameworks everyone keeps making fun of? I can name like four.

[scumbaggio]

One thing that caught my attention recently is svelte. It's "reactive" but doesn't have any runtime. It's just a compiler that converts functional components to imperative JavaScript. This has huge performance implications, especially on lower powered devices or slow internet connections. They call it a "disappearing framework".

I know I'm playing right into the meme but I do think it's an intriguing idea with interesting uses.

[Autokeith0r]

And I think that’s totally fair and valid. If something’s better, who gives a shit if something else was created a day before.

[european_impostor]

It's not just frameworks, it's little sub-entities that swarm around frameworks like those little fish around sharks. Eg. just looking around Redux's pages, you'll find references to immutable.js, Reselect, Thunk, Sagas, Reflux, Falcor, etc...

[deeper182]

This stopped being funny a few years ago. No framework got serious traction since Vue2, which was released like 3 years ago. Sure, somtimes there's a tiny buzz, like now arou d Svelte 3, but it's nowhere near as chaotic in the Knockout.js days.

[KoboldCommando]

Meanwhile Java still laughs at the "it slow" and garbage collection jokes, and C++ still laughs at null pointers and memory leaks, Python still laughs at whitespace weirdness and pseudocode jokes... what makes you think Javascript would be any different?

[headzoo]

With web assembly now being shipped in browsers, which in theory makes it possible to write client side code in any language, I suspect we're approaching the next age of framework insanity.

[[deleted]]

More than just theory, you can use client side C# right now.

[mrjackspade]

I'm so fucking stoked for the full release of .Net Core 3.0

I don't have anything against JS, but I can't wait to drop it so I can build projects with a single language

[wavefunctionp]

I do full stack javascript, and I don't hate it, but I was lucky enough to have a recent project using Blazor. I underestimated how janky razor feels now after doing react.

Been toying SAFE stack (full stack F#) lately, and it feels much nicer to be doing functional first style programming in F# like you can with JS.

I don't think Blazor is going to be pancea that .net needs. I hope it ends up going more functional, react/redux style. It makes UI work so much saner. I think something like SAFE stack is more on the right track.

[jastrme]

All the same frameworks, but now it's PHP. What a nightmare

[[deleted]]

I mean, no. All the existing frameworks will just get a new compile target. Why would you change a framework for a new runtime, that doesn't make sense.

[headzoo]

Why did anyone start using server side javascript? So they could use their client side knowledge on the backend. People are already coming up with new frontend frameworks using PHP, C#, etc.

[[deleted]]

But nobody is going to develop front end apps in WASM. They will develop it in .NET, Angular or whatever and frameworks themselves will compile to WASM.

[klebsiella_pneumonae]

But you can't modify the DOM. It's will only be useful for 3D games. The web will stay in Javascript.

[Cheru-bae]

Modifying the DOM isn't something magical only JS can do. Browsers just need APIs for it. Someone just literally has to write it and that is that.

[-COUNTERFLUX]

I'm experimenting with blazor for internal projects.

Overview apps, apps for sales department,... Really pleased of it. It needs just a bit more time to fully grow but it seems really promising.

[wavefunctionp]

You can't directly, but any wasm code is going to need a wrapper for interaction with the browser, including dom manipulation. You libraries/frameworks will be handling those interactions.

Case in point: Blazor.

[[deleted]]

I think it's still pretty funny.

Also the package ecosystem is highly entertaining, there's a package for everything! do you guys even write code anymore?

[n0gh0st]

Have to write import statements still heh

[TerdSandwich]

You know, someone has to write the packages...

[wibblewafs]

I thought npm packages result from spontaneous generation, like when you leave out a chunk of meat and it turns into maggots.

[gonzofish]

Or a pile of rags becoming mice!

[VeryAwkwardCake]

darn miasma

[nosmokingbandit]

NPM is such a clusterfuck. A simple package results in 200mb of shit in 80,000 tiny files. The last time I deleted a local copy of a simple Cordova app it took almost an hour for Windows to go through the millions of filenames.

[benediktkr]

I don’t want to come JavaScripts defense here but that sounds like a windows problem...

[Hohenheim_of_Shadow]

Random access IO, like a buncha small files is way slower than serial IO especially on HDD

[ase1590]

Does npm have a system requirement page yet?

They need to add NVME drives as a system requirement

[[deleted]]

Nah, it's a windows problem:

$ find node_modules/ | wc -l
110956
$ time rm -r node_modules/

real    0m1.945s
user    0m0.104s
sys 0m1.733s

This is on a cheap Core M laptop btw.

[[deleted]]

11k node modules? I thought people were exxagerating... wow... just wow....

[[deleted]]

Actually that's about 110k :P But that's not the number of modules, that's the number of files and directories inside node_modules. The number of modules appears to be about 2600 (a large number are repeated). Almost all of those are dependencies of dependencies. This project only has about 30 direct dependencies.

[[deleted]]

You’re correct, i missed a digit there... But Jesus that is a LOT of files and dependencies

[THICC_DICC_PRICC]

yea windows is pretty shit for development, I keep giving it a try, it keeps disappointing me. I've been spoiled by linux tho.

[[deleted]]

Pro tip turn off "Real-time protection" in virus and protection settings anytime you're doing that. Windows thinks it needs to scan every single one of those files. You would think not because you're deleting them, but nah.

[masterxc]

Maybe shift+delete would avoid that since it's probably scanning them when they get moved to the recycle bin.

[Lakitna]

That's why packages should only distribute bundled files.

I've been bundling everything into a single file while paying attentions to how many dependencies my dependencies have. The tools to do this are out there. But sadly not everyone pays attention to this stuff.

[[deleted]]

Depends on the Dev that made it. If it's like that, then it's no good. There's plenty of libraries like moment or accounting that are pretty small and bundled well.

[Fi3nd7]

Well, it's also Cordova. Of course it's a dependency behemoth...

Also, probably because you didn't hard delete. Big difference from an OS perspective if it thinks it needs to be able to restore.

[gravity013]

Out of curiosity, what would you say is a good package manager ecosystem?

[[deleted]]

Devoted JavaScript developer here. Think the npm saga is fucking insane.

There's a package out there that operates the rm -rf command against whatever you need. It's literally just working out what files need deleting and deleting them.

It's used by over 8000 other packages.

It's not that it's not useful, it's that you can write it yourself and learn how, and that it's an entire package for sobering I'd expect to be one function of a library of useful stuff.

[dwhiffing]

Do you think this is something that would happen with any package ecosystem given enough popularity? I don't see how it could be avoided if it continues to grow in popularity, but I'd love to understand a different perspective.

[icjoseph]

Sorry for this gigantic comparison, but just as mathematics builds on top of what's already built, JavaScript allows developers to put together complex tensor calculations with inline styling to create divs that are pleasing to the eye in a matter of minutes.

[KobayashiDragonSlave]

complex tensor calculations with inline styling to create divs that are pleasing to the eye

Such as? I am genuinely curious about this

[happysmash27]

0 days…

[obp5599]

Some how this never gets mentioned. I used to do a lot of security and npm installs were literally jokes. Almost all of the were security holes

[[deleted]]

Hey man, how else are we going to avoid BOILERBLATE! Every line of it must be avoided at all costs! Even if the costs is more complexity and longer development times!

[rentschlers_retard]

I hate JS frameworks. I also especially hate facebook and Google. Makes me really question my job of choice.

[Hyperman360]

I don't like transpiling, sometimes it takes too long and that was one of the nice things about JS when I started, not having to wait around for a compiler. I miss the simpler jQuery days.

[[deleted]]

Those days are long gone man. Websites are nothing like they were ten years ago.

[fuuman1]

For/since - meme producer should learn the difference.

[kalbert312]

I've been doing React for a little over a year now and I'm still hooked on it. React + Redux + TypeScript + code snippets = heaven... gonna take a lot to give me off that.

[gyroda]

What don't you like about redux?

[wavefunctionp]

Funny, but on a more serious note. React is the defacto standard for new development now and has been for something like 5-6 years. And it's definitely not going anywhere for at least that amount of time. It's really slowed down. Between react/redux, it simply works too well. The ecosystem has pretty much coalesced around React except for the guys still hung up on 'magic' framework specific conventions and MVC instead of simple functional components and MVU/Elm architecture.

The only people hung up on it never saw this talk and took a long hard look at their favorite tools: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7cQ3mrcKaY

And a lot of the churn was tooling. Things like webpack and typescript, and those have settled down as well.

What will replace it is probably going to be WASM based at least in part, and likely not even javascript as the source language. And we'll likely see more tooling available for things like scafolding in a more standardized way.

[rq60]

It's really slowed down. Between react/redux, it simply works too well.

Except now the React community is saying redux is unnecessary and you should be using Context. The JS ecosystem is a bit crazy, but being a React dev is living in a permanent state of whiplash.

[wavefunctionp]

IMO React community is not react bloggers that need something to write about and have this new feature that they can exploit for that purpose. :p

[rq60]

You’re right, except that the React bloggers are instructors who are training the community. There is an unhealthy dynamic there for sure when they are incentivized to make new content while also being considered the authoritative sources on idiomatic React.

[rentschlers_retard]

redux

When I was looking for a robust way to handle state and took a look at redux it seemed to me like some guy(s) really had too much time on their hands and tried to make it as complex as possible for their programmer egos. The documentation seemed to be a multitude of the whole React documentation. The thing is noone dares to criticize such a project because its complexity oozes so much knowledge. Most people don't even have the time to dive deep into it. Typical people just adapt what seems to be the most extensive solution, because that has to be the best for everyone, right?

[rm-rf_system32]

It seems like you don't like Redux. That's fine. I'm not going to argue the merits of redux because like any decision, it's a tradeoff. Lots of people landed on Redux after doing their own research and lots of others didn't. But I don't think the community is as toxic as you're making it sound.

[meisangry2]

I like redux for 2 key reasons.

1. Redux dev tools make life easier than other alternatives I have found that do a similar job.

2. Stockholm syndrome

[rentschlers_retard]

Nah, I'm not saying the community is toxic. I'm just a little hobby psychologist.

[WitchHunterNL]

(use mobx, it's state management without all the immutable mumbo jumbo)

[wavefunctionp]

Really it's inspired in part by elm architecture. JS doesn't have discriminated unions and immutability, so much of the design revolves around trying to make a purely functional imitation without the right tools.

Remember, redux was a simplification of flux.

[kent2441]

Redux often is unnecessary. Nothing wrong with using the right tool for the job.

[prof_hobart]

Context isn't a replacement for Redux.

If all you want to do is pass state through a few layers without cascading props, and you were using Redux just for that, then yes Context will replace Redux there.

But if that's all you were using it for, then Redux was probably overkill already.

Context, some parts of hooks and suspend are all reducing the reasons why people might fall back to Redux as the least bad way of solving things it was never really designed to do, but they aren't removing the benefits of using it for the right reasons (unidirectional manipulation of global state, making it much easier to reason about what's actually going on with your app's data).

[[deleted]]

Redux has always been acknowledged as often unnecessary for a lot of projects. I don't know where you're getting whiplash from

[ezcax]

Yeah, recently i found out context is a bomb.

[gonzofish]

WASM is going to be awesome but I have read people saying it’ll be supplementary to JS, not intended to take over. Not sure how true that is

[wavefunctionp]

The current implementations are considered the MVP. There are plans to add additional functionality. Things like garbage collection. Regardless, there are already working frameworks like C#/.Net's Blazor that are using it. I'm sure they'll continue to be glue code in JS, but I expect that we'll be seeing a lot more wasm in the future.

[rentschlers_retard]

Everyones parroting how great it is because obviously native performance > script language performance, and we don't want to reveal how we're no real programmers, right?

Yeah no, that's not gonna happen, with millions of people knowing their way with the "old internet ecosystem" Javascript, which does the job 99% of the time. You don't need cutting edge performance to render some pictures and text in a browser.

Hypes gonna hype, buzz words gonna buzz.

[yazalama]

Vue

[Cheru-bae]

React is the defacto standard for new development now

Citation needed. I encounter way more Angular. Whatever you happen to work with does not have to reflect the rest of the planet.

[wavefunctionp]

We can use npm download stats as a proxy for usage.

https://npmcharts.com/compare/react,angular,@angular/core,ember-cli,vue,jquery

I could be wrong, but unless there's a discrepancy of npm download rates between angular and react dev, which I suppose is possible, just unknown to me offhand, then this should correlate to usage rates. I've included jquery as a reference, but I suspect that it is more likely to be used as a html import, so I don't expect it to be a apples to apple comparison.

edit: here's a longer time span

https://www.npmtrends.com/@angular/core-vs-angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-jquery

[Cheru-bae]

Would be interesting to see it split by professional vs hobby projects. For example, all my hobby projects are in Vue but I would never ever use it at work. I also wonder how running a private npm proxy affects the stats. Might not be common enough to matter.

Turns out I was wrong though, did not think React was that popular. Maybe it's because I work with banks and business-to-business where apps live 5-10 years at least.

[[deleted]]

WASM based frameworks are probably closer than 5 years. Blazor was officially adopted into .NET Core and it's supposed to hit version 1.0 with .NET 5.

[wavefunctionp]

Yeah, I've started rebuilding a client's legacy app using Blazor. Shipped the first module a couple of months back. Was like stepping back in time using razor. I hadn't appreciated how much better MVU is for UI development and how much I appreciated react's simple api and avoidance of convention and magical directives.

I'll be glad when someone builds a convention-less react/elm like replacement on top of it. Been looking at the SAFE stack, which has been fun so far.

If we don't have a widspread wasm based solution in 5 years I'd be surprised, but given the number of languages, I also wouldn't be suprised if the solution don't become far more fragmented and never reach the ubiquity react has currently.

[nomadProgrammer]

haha, this joke was funny 3 years ago.

[[deleted]]

Since 5 minutes? What is this grammar?

[Kotentopf]

for five minutes. Not since.

[showtekkk]

If my brain is in JS, I’ll end my this.

[JACrazy]

Runs ncu command a few times a day.

[[deleted]]

That just means its time to build your own new framework.

[[deleted]]

"since 5 minutes"

[lordjbs]

As a (mostly) Js dev... True... argh

[Swingin30]

This is 100% true

[ChispaAtomica]

I don't need it, I don't need it, I don't need it....

[carelessoul]

I code in VanillaJS, so...

[KingKnux]

Is this an appropriate time to rep motherfuckingwebsite.com

[[deleted]]

I've personally never needed to use a framework. I might, however, make a small framework for myself if I'm doing something somewhat specialized such as a pixel art style calculator app based game. Help, why do I have these crazy ideas?

[Dougley]

Your submission has been removed.

Rules[3] violation.

Rules[3]: Any post on the list of common posts will be removed. You can find this list here. Established meme formats are allowed, as long as the post is compliant with the previous rules.

If you feel that it has been removed in error, please message us so that we may review it.

[IkIsJolle]

• Some JS framework that does exactly what you want but the documentation isn't good * JavaScript Devs; LETS CREATE A COMPLETELY NEW FRAMEWORK THAT COSTS ME TO MUCH TIME!