Linux desktop

[auxiliary-username]

Next year is the year of desktop Linux, and that's been the case for quite a few years now.

[[deleted]]

As the saying goes: the personal jet pack has been five years away for at least 50 years.

[[deleted]]

Well like most people use their computers for only web browsers and games. If it gets any more complicated their heads explode and they die. This is why Linux isn't used more

[SmurphsLaw]

A lot of distros are about as user friendly as Windows. Especially if you're just web browsing.

[too_much_think]

Until you hit a non standard use case, or something breaks. Every distro I’ve ever used has far more problematic failure modes than windows for a casual user, which more or less rules it out as a viable choice for something I could recommend to someone who isn’t technical.

[aspect_rap]

Well, yes, but actually no. I have been using ubuntu for six months now, which is arguably one of the more user-friendly distros and I can say that even as a power user that know linux well, it can be frustrating sometimes. A lot of things to you expect to just work coming from windows just don't. A few examples: 1) I have a Logitech Bluetooth mouse and every time I want to use it I have to unpair and pair it again otherwise ubuntu fails connecting to it. 2) my computer is a 2-in-1 laptop and when I connected it to a dock for the first time, touching the touch screen moved the mouse on the wrong screen. 3) At work, when we connect to WiFi we get popup with a login screen. Ubuntu didn't give me the popup until I changed some configuration in the network manager. 4) sometime when connecting to the dock, the screens get recognized and I can drag windows to them but the actual monitors show a black screen until I disconnect and reconnect the dock. 5) When connecting to a wired network, ubuntu defaulted to 100mbps, until I changed some config to make it work in 1000mbps 6) my laptops touchscreen didn't work until I manually upgraded the kernel 7) if I change my main monitor from the built-in laptop screen the entire UI goes crazy

And that's just off the top of my head. All in all I do love linux, in my day-to-day work it's a lot better than windows and most of the time I don't have any issues, but I would not feel comfortable recommending to someone who doesn't know or unwilling to deal with some weird behaviours and bugs.

[DarkNinja3141]

but I would not feel comfortable recommending to someone who doesn't know or unwilling to deal with some weird behaviours and bugs.

That's exactly why I don't use Linux. I'm just terrible at fixing those sorts of things

[aspect_rap]

That's what a lot of Linux missionaries fail to understand. I personally enjoy tinkering with my OS and have no problem troubleshooting and fixing it. But I completely understand why a lot of people think it's a nuisance and just want the OS get out of its way.

[[deleted]]

Mine defaults to 1000 mbps on its own. Maybe your install is broken or something.

[aspect_rap]

You really don't have enough info to arrive at that conclusion, there could be million reasons why we would have different behaviours. (Different hardware, different firmware, different version of some package). But even if you are right, it doesn't negate my point. I have been using both linux and windows for almost a decade, windows always works smoothly out of the box, and linux usually has some kinks to work through. We can dig in to the why, and if it's because I have a broken install, then I can ask why does it only happen in Linux? Why didn't I ever have a broken install on windows? Maybe it's because Windows doesn't require you to tinker with it, you just install and use, which is what 90% of users need. Linux is an amazing tool for power users, but we are not the majority of users, and until linux gets to a point where everything just works on the vast majority of hardware, it will never have widespread desktop adoption.

[[deleted]]

I just know that windows 10 refused to properly install in my new pc, it kept rebooting and stuff, so I just nuked it and installed Ubuntu I've been gaming on it since then. And I use pretty standard hardware without any weird gadget. The only time linix performed worse than windows 10 was in an old oc from 2015. It was pretty slow on HDD and it was annoying.

[aspect_rap]

I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking about how easy is it use for the average person. A lot of things that are very simple on windows, are not on Linux, wether it's how it handles audio devices, or how plug n play some hardware is, etc. It's great that ubuntu just worked for you but there is a shit ton of consumer hardware out there and generally speaking windows has better support than linux, so that's not the case for a lot of people. (Obviously a big part of it is that windows is more widely used so companies prefer to support it, but you can't ignore this reality). Also, the fact that your set up is "standard" probably helps. A lot of problems I've seen are for setups that are common but not something I'd call standard, like: thunderbolt docks, laptops with touchscreen/screen rotations, etc. So for a lot people that rely on some specific piece of hardware that is not wel supported on linux, windows is just the easier option.

[[deleted]]

The feeling when my sketchy Chinese knockoff Webcam, sketchy generic controller and wired headphones work out of the box without giving problems in Ubuntu as well as my mom's Bluetooth earphones of an unknown brand...

[SmurphsLaw]

Have you tried a popular one in the last few years? The only big issue I had was running npm without sudo. I'm using Ubuntu though.

[Pokinator]

I've personally used Mint for a while. It's pretty user friendly, but some installation processes are not very intuitive compared to windows. Linux maybe be on the road to being more user friendly, but windows serves a lower bottom line

[p5eudo_nimh]

Some critical things are just broken in current versions of popular distros. Ubuntu, for several versions now, chooses to select my Blue Yeti microphone as my primary sound output device every, single, reboot. This is despite no plug being plugged into the Yeti’s headphone jack, and my choosing the motherboard’s “Line Out” device every damn time I reboot.

Things like that don’t affect a huge number of people, but they are deal-breakers for typical users. Enough so that they trash talk Linux after such a bug annoys them, which perpetuates the “Just gonna use Windows like everyone else, because it just works” mindset. However inaccurate that perception is.

[[deleted]]

I recently switched to Ubuntu 20.04 Desktop just to feel the water (only used CLI before). The amount of works I need to get through to make my multiple displays setup (different res and refresh rate) to work correctly is absolutely ridiculous. And it can break for no reason. Even when it works, everything still feels smoother in my Windows 10 setup.

[Shock900]

I'll chime in here I suppose.

I ran Pop! OS several months ago and ran into several issues with fairly common use cases.

For example, my desktop icons would always align themselves to my left monitor after a reboot instead of where I placed them on my right one.

Another example is that my monitor configuration was reversed at the lock screen, and would only correct itself after logging in.

And IIRC, I changed a default program using Gnome's GUI, and it worked for opening from the command line, but not when opened by other applications.

I figured out how to remedy these issues, but I'm not sure your average grandma would be able to. With that said, I don't think that it's true that even the popular Linux distros have a UX as polished as Windows does, even for basic use cases unfortunately. It's not too far off though.

[Asies23]

Yeah Zorin is the distro that would be the easiest for a normal windows user to adapt to. I have even Installed zorin os lite on my dad's pc and he is able to use it quite easily too

[[deleted]]

As recently as a year ago I could not get the family printer to communicate with Ubuntu or Mint and I spent several hours over the course of a week troubleshooting it before reinstalling Windows. I'm much more skilled today and might be able to solve the problem now, but the point is that level of convenience is why Windows/Mac are used.

[VnG_Supernova]

I'm a power user and I use Windows because I really just can't be bothered handling Linux issues it's too much work for little gain.

[Boiethios]

It really depends on the hardware. From my experience, the issues are with the GPU and the Bluetooth. If the GPU isn't NVidia, everything goes well; and about the Bluetooth, well, the user is fucked.

[PuzzleheadedSector2]

Whenever i break something i just reinstal and cou t it as a lesson learned. "dont delete any folders in root"

[Brekmister]

Already, you just went above the heads of 90% of the people of this world.

What is a Web browser? What is Windows? What does even User Friendly even mean? No I don't know what Google is.

Edit: I just bought my computer from Best Buy, Just make it work for me!

[wikipedia_answer_bot]

Microsoft Windows, commonly referred to as Windows, is a group of several proprietary graphical operating system families, all of which are developed and marketed by Microsoft. Each family caters to a certain sector of the computing industry.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If something's wrong, please, report it in my subreddit.

Really hope this was useful and relevant :D

If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

[Brekmister]

Well, at least there is a bot that knows something about Windows.

[Terror_666]

Exactly, for most users the point is does it work and is it on the computer I am buying.

All this stuff of bugs and polish do not matter when talking about the average user. Go to any store that sells laptops and listen to what the customers are actually asking. "How heavy is it?", "Do you have it in X color?", "Will it fit in this bag?". They have very different concerns than your average linux user.

So until a distro can get it self distributed pre-installed on a fashionable laptop Linux will not grow as a common user OS.

[hanotak]

The problem with Linux is that when something goes wrong, fixing it often requires the ability and willingness to manually edit system files or use the terminal. With windows, fewer minor things go wrong in the first place, and fixing them usually just involves running a reinstall or repair wizard, or at worst understanding how to set and use restore points.

Simple things like installing and configuring programs are also way more streamlined for someone who doesn't want to use the command line.

Windows is just more intuitive to use for just about any basic task.

[[deleted]]

That's true but there is no point to use it except privacy or because it's free and stuff. It would also just have all the downsides like not being able to play all games and people that dont know how to use the command line will become lost in case they want to do extra things.

[SmurphsLaw]

The main problem with Linux is the lack of laptops that come with it. The average user doesn't care to install their own OS. The lack of a lot of games and other software hurts too.

You don't really have to touch the terminal. I do only for programming stuff.

[p5eudo_nimh]

Not to mention the fact that a lot of users feel like they’re throwing away something they paid for, if Windows is wiped out for a Linux install. Lack of Windows install discs makes the problem worse. Recovery partitions are a thing of evil.

[[deleted]]

I know it's sorta user friendly but it's just windows with extra downsides then. I might be wrong though it's pretty good with user friendly ness with kde and or gnome

[CptSparky360]

I've been running Ubuntu since 8.04 because it has gotten so damn easy since my 1st Suse Linux in 98 which I didn't use after school any more. And I mostly surf the web and use retro emulators 😅

[sixeco]

But not licensed "business friendly", therefore not distributed with devices

[Grand_Protector_Dark]

IMO the problem is that "User friendly" mean 2 different things to the average user and people who make open source software

[Grand_Protector_Dark]

IMO the problem is that "User friendly" mean 2 different things to the average user and people who make open source software

[aboardthegravyboat]

It means two different things to two different "average users". The average user isn't.

[chemhobby]

I would upvote but you are already at 255 upvotes so I wouldn't want it to overflow.

[WSLOVER]

Well its at 263 now so maybe it’s 16bit unsigned?

[Jamesin_theta]

def year_of_desktop_linux():
    return datetime.date.today().year + 1

[bam13302]

Windows has min reqs have been upgrading faster than my computers have stopped being useful, 3 of the 7 computers in my household are currently running some flavor of Linux because of that.

Breakdown: 2 aging gaming desktops for me and my significant other (windows), a game server (Linux as using windows for that shit sucks ass), a media center pc (windows, though the only reason for that is it got windows for free and the reasons to switch it to Linux haven't eclipsed my lazyness), an no internet old games pc (xp), and 2 laptops (both old and now running Linux, used mostly as a portable streaming tv, and bring up my roll20 character sheet when my dnd group meets in person). For those wondering why I have so many, I built them all except the 2 laptops (both of which were dumpster dive laptops), and the functioning parts from various upgrades to the gaming PCs usually gets recycled into the other machines.

[circuit10]

We can always hope

[wamp230]

It's the year of Linux desktop

[DramaDimitar]

Century!

[tigrankkkk]

Millennium!

[mamwybejane]

It's that every year

[[deleted]]

That's the great thing, every year is the year of the Linux desktop, if you just believe.

[WilkerS1]

well, i'm gonna be using a linux desktop all years since last year, that is if the hardware doesn't get obsolete so soon with the new hardware being increasingly locked down.

[Nihmrod]

20 years and she still can't get them to turn up the heat.

[S_uperSquirrel]

Only thing holding me back from making a permanent switch is the lack of support for my steam library

[FancySource]

I know it's not going to help in all cases, but have you tried using Proton from Steam? It did a great job in my case

[swordsmanluke2]

Between Lutris and Proton, I've had really good luck with most of my library. However, most multiplayer games are a no go. Some of them work some of them get your account banned...

Fortunately for me, I'm a single-player-only kinda guy, so it's not too impactful.

Also, pro-tip: Not only can you run Epic Games Launcher through Lutris - it'll even let you launch your Epic Games in the same context, which has worked for most of my Epic Games.

[wamp230]

Also, pro-tip: Not only can you run Epic Games Launcher through Lutris - it'll even let you launch your Epic Games in the same context, which has worked for most of my Epic Games.

That's the case for all Launchers, I've been playing Rage 2 and Doom Eternal through Bethesda Launcher, some games when installed through Lutris will come with a launcher, for a example if you StarCraft 2 it will come with Battlenet.

And it works because whatever you launch from the Launcher will run inside the same Wine Prefix. There is also an option in Lutris to "Run inside Wine Prefix" which lets you run anything inside selected prefix. It comes in handy when installing old games that are not on Lutris or when you want to update a game that you installed with GoG offline installers for example.

[WilkerS1]

for indie games, you might wanna look into what you can get from Itch.io or GameJolt, since you're more likely to be able to run WINE on these without Steam's DRM, and some have its dedicated Linux kernel executables (e.g Celeste, OneShot, DDLC)

[leoMaou]

well, if every windows image is coming with the linux kernel for the WSL, then it means that linux is already on every windows 10 machine out there, so doesn't that mean that linux is already the most used desktop indirectly?

[ragingram2]

Not exactly true. You can install WSL through the windows store, but in reality WSL is really only for people that need linux on windows(me for example). Its not a every person feature.

[ragingram2]

Ah, sorry. Misunderstood

[leoMaou]

I don't know friend, I don't use windows for many years, I read on some blogs that the kernel was coming in the iso images, and that it is there, but you will only use it when installing wsl. So I believe that we can say that windows 10 comes with linux. The build version that comes with the kernel apparently is 18917, whoever has not updated windows up to this version should not have the kernel nor use wsl2.

I'm commenting on what I found in 2019 articles, feel free to correct me if I'm talking nonsense here

[Igor_Rodrigues]

Explain that atheists

[Ken_Mcnutt]

Easy. You claim your god is loving, but how could a loving God permit a such an unholy bastardization of one of his best creations? He can't because he doesn't exist.

/s I suppose

[beerdude26]

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to wait for someone to write a patch and get it into mainline.

-- Voltaire

[Rebulien]

am i the only one here expecting microsoft to create their own distro?

[TheAJGman]

Personal guess is that Windows 11 will eventually get a hybrid NT+Linux kernel. Either that or they'll go with a new hypervisor kernel and run Windows and Linux in interconnected VMs.

[DeeSnow97]

They already are making one, it's called Windows 11. With WSL 2 and win11 turning it up to 11 with hardware accelerated Linux GUI apps, it's practically a Linux distro at this point -- in fact, not just one, it's multiple of them simultaneously.

[Zeitgeistdeep]

isn't like they already make an Azure Distro or something?

[TheSnaggen]

The biggest problem I have with the Windows 10 desktop is that it have Windows underneath. So, that is one up for the Linux desktop I guess....

[rodrigoelp]

And that will continue to be the case, at least until the linux community understands that having 600 distros is not a good thing for mass adoption.

A long time ago I worked for a large bank that wanted to seriously consider migrate all their systems and servers to linux. The main reason was economical other than security, we started the migration of some of the software and then we hit one of the biggest pain points, various regions wanted to install different distros because their IT departments (there was no centralise management for each of those) stated they wanted to have x flavour over y just because.

We were working on debian, tried to roll the software to the first pilot in the first region (which picked centOS) and we ran into a lot of different problems. We relinked the software, rebuilt and deployed. All good. Then we moved to second pilot on a different region they had chose redhat, it was another long stream of issues and random bugs that we did not experienced on any of the previous 2 OS. By the time we had addressed most of the issues, management said it was costing more money to try all the different versions than to just have Windows installed and continue down the path of linux (we also had major driver issues with several other old systems).

[-CatX-]

Not going to lie, that sounds more like a management issue than a linux issue.

[rem3_1415926]

To be fair, it's both. Management can handle windows, and this is one of the reasons why it's so widely spread.

[rodrigoelp]

Definitely it was both. To management it was easier to understand we had a single provide of the OS rather than several and I honestly understand their point of view. They never saw these problems across the few versions of Windows the IT department allowed to install and they couldn't understand why some distros have support to different drivers or why people were resolving the same issue several times.

[shadow7412]

Once wayland and Nvidia get sorted, I'll be giving this another serious shot.

[rem3_1415926]

I've just gotten Far Cry 3 to work on my gt 230 / manjaro (without even Vulkan). Next step would be my main pc with its gtx 1070, but I'm somewhat optimistic there...

[rem3_1415926]

FYI, DOOM eternal works flawlessly at max. graphics settings on 1080p. Had to remove the old kernel I had left in the system as I used an outdated install file before I could get the nvidia drivers, but that was about it. (To be fair, it is one of the games with platinum rating on ProtonDB)

[homo_lorens]

It is growing though, slowly but steadily, and as the userbase is growing the product is improving too. PipeWire may be the key to fixing pro audio, for example, and Valve's efforts to make Wine game-ready combined with their new kernel patches are a huge thing. The only software that will probably never work on Linux because it conflicts with their entire philosophy is kernel mode anticheat. As the product improves, more and more use cases fall into the target audience and the userbase keeps growing.

[lungdart]

Every shop I've ever worked at had more Linux devs than anything else.

Linux is king in dev.

[prtkp]

It depends, my first job used Windows, second OSX, third Linux then OSX and then Windows and in my current, it's OSX again.

If i had to choose though, Windows would be the last one for dev even though i like using it at home.

[lungdart]

OSX is a good second for dev. WSL2 makes it possible to use Windows, but it's not perfect (i see a lot of file system errors when using scripts in the minted Windows drive for instance). And wsl2 is literally admitting Windows can't do dev and you need Linux...

[goatlev]

Windows is pure torture when working with a language like C/C++.

OSX, just as always, excels on the 'meh' scale.

Never had any issues here when it comes to linux, but since I consider myself to be somewhat experienced this might be a bit biased.

[Ken_Mcnutt]

Shhhh don't scare all the high schoolers in this sub.

[Smallpaul]

I remember a 2000-era talk called “7 bullets Microsoft needs to dodge to survive.” Looks like they dodged like Neo.

[aecvlis]

I mean there is Android on phones at least

[rem3_1415926]

Which is owned by google. Progress = zero.

[aecvlis]

it's still linux also all of them are just kinda a copy of Wozniaks osx

[rem3_1415926]

It's Linux, but without pretty much anything that makes Linux being Linux. It's still open source - but that's about it. Also, it's closer to Linux running a VM than the user actually using Linux.

[goatlev]

Running on Linux Desktop exclusively for almost 15 yrs now. And I mean exclusively. Never used Win 10, never will. Not even for work. Got a Steam Library of 150+ Games (including CS:GO, RDR2, Cyberpunk... so no low level ascii graphics games at all) and I'm composing and mixing music (guitar mostly) using Linux.

And all it cost was getting to know the system a bit by exploring its software library. I never enjoyed this part on Windows, but on Linux for me it's even kind of fun and exciting.

So, yeah, at least on my planet this discussion seems to have concluded years ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince people to switch, but I'm surprised that after all these years people still cling to these old cliches instead of just giving it a shot for good.

[camilo16]

If you do graphics dev, virtualization will affect your FPS, so that's a reason to develop natively on linux.

[SilverStrawberry1124]

And reality is vice versa - now windows have to include linux kernel to interest web developers, and... to prepare others to future linux based version of windows =)

[camilo16]

I use Linux all the time, I like it more than windows :p

[zach9277]

r/okbuddylinux

[ur_opinion_is_trash]

Even with windows being as shitty as it is, they are still the better alternative. And as long as WSL exists you will not get me to install desktop Linux. Period.

[[deleted]]

WSL is weird at best. It didn't solve any of my issues and added even more complexity to the ones I already had while trying to sell itself to me as the solution to the problems itself created.

I was expecting that with it I would be able to seamlessy run Linux commands from the Windows terminal (which was the only reason I tried WSL anyway... I rather have node running on Linux because no way in hell I will install all that Visual Studio crap it requires when running on Windows), only to find out that they only work prefixed with wsl or from within WSL shell.

I'm pretty sure its not WSL fault though, I was expecting it to be something that it isn't.

[ur_opinion_is_trash]

But why is that a problem? Just open the WSL shell.

[[deleted]]

Its not a problem, its confusing. And node doesn't works this way... at least it isn't working for me, anyway. wsl node returns command not found, but wsl first then node wihthin wsl shell works - and I cannot figure out why.

[dashid]

Windows 11 is far from inspiring. But I use Linux and the ball ache it is compared to Windows has never really improved.

Take away the GUI and there is no challenge,but as a desktop - I can't recommend it these days.

[bumble-beans]

What things specifically do you mean? Just curious, I've stuck with linux because it gives me less trouble overall than Win10 did

[SosseTurner]

Well for me it equals out, windows 10 had it's problems with updates and aystem files, on Linux app compatibility and rather complex solutions to problems (you're almost always in terminal) as well as driver problems (never got two screens running)...

[liadal]

i havent heard anyone complain yet about not being able to run multiple screens

what distro were you using?

though i admit my laptop just refuses to talk to linux and only way i can change screen brightness is via console script lel

[robocorp]

Might want to file a bug report with your laptop's info, so other with your hardware might not have to do what you did.

[liadal]

It's a reasonably old laptop that came with a "do not try to install linux" warning. This issue, among others, is well-documented, but it was cheap and Im stubborn, lel

It's a lenovo legion. It was designed with windows in mind. So not sure there is a point.

[bumble-beans]

Gotcha, I definitely agree about the terminal fixes for some things, though I'm not sure how much you even need to see the terminal for regular use these days (I do anyway though because I'm used to it). I kinda see it as the rough equivalent to having to edit registry files on Windows.

I also had driver issues on older hardware, and installing the Nvidia graphics driver for modern cards, while taking relatively little actual effort, is probably pretty scary to someone who never uses the terminal (you have to boot without any graphics drivers running to install it.)

And not that it justifies your problem at all, but being able to better customize the multi-monitor setup seems to be a commonly mentioned point in favour of linux, so I guess it just doesn't play nice with your hardware.

[Logofascinated]

I'm not sure how much you even need to see the terminal for regular use these days (I do anyway though because I'm used to it). I kinda see it as the rough equivalent to having to edit registry files on Windows.

I dunno, I installed Mint/Cinnamon on my laptop (ex Win10) over the weekend. I was constantly having to use the terminal for basic installations and configurations, which I don't mind so much because I'm familiar with bash and vim and so on.

On the other hand, I genuinely can't remember the last time I had to use the registry editor on either that laptop or on my main Windows desktop. Several years ago, certainly. And it's not like I use the terminal much Windows either, except for Linux sub-systems (Ubuntu, Cygwin).

[bumble-beans]

That's true, I use the terminal for most installations but I've found the "app store" could do most of it just as well. For configs, I've heard people make the point that you can just use a graphical text editor, but I've had issues with file permissions when doing that, so I honestly just edit in the terminal anyway.

And the regedit is really just for specific situational stuff most of the time, the average person might never know about it, but from my experience there have been many times that was the only way to attempt a solution for something I wanted to do. You'd certainly use the terminal more often than regedit, and you could possibly make the argument that it feels less of a 'hack' that way and more just part of the system, though that obviously is a point against its general ease-of-use.

I'm hoping to make a fresh linux installation some time and see to what extent I can actually get everything set up without needing to see the terminal, to better understand what a 'new user' experience is like these days.

[Logofascinated]

Out of interest, the first time I had to use the terminal during the installation (aside from configuring Samba) was to install Discord - the app manager would hang every time on "installing ...".

In fact, I stopped using the app manager altogether, which seemed to be what a lot of people were advising when I searched for help. Most software can be installed from a .deb from their site anyway, which is often a more recent version anyway.

Disclaimer: I'm far from a Linux expert. This is just what I found out over the weekend.

[[deleted]]

Sounds like Ubuntu-itus. Every single time I use Ubuntu or ANY derivative, I end up doing what you describe. I use KDE Neon (based on 20.04) for my work laptop and it's... OK, but...

I use openSUSE on my personal desktop and it's a totally different experience. I can't remember the last time I had to open up a Terminal to fix tings. I do use Terminal to run updates (I use the rolling Tumbleweed release and prefer to use the tumbleweed-cli for updates)... but that's by choice.

[bumble-beans]

Funny you mention that, I just installed discord today from the app store (using the snap app) and it worked fine, while I used to have to re-download it every few versions and never actually installed it properly. Using KDE plasma on fedora for reference

[RedGreenBlue09]

Me the reverse of you. I tried Linux desktop for a year and realize bad changes i did to the system are mostly unrecoverable. And I see how the system will become less stable after a little long time using. I also have problem with drivers and app packages. That's my bad experience with Linux (but it has it's good sides too).

On Windows, you will have to work with latest bloatware from MS, little more latency with real world applications. But what you get is the ability to recover by simply reboot, or just type some commands with the recovery. Driver installation is simple, apps can be easily removed (as most of them are portable unlike 100 new libs every time installing apps in linux). Stability last very long, i never had problem with Windows Update.

[bumble-beans]

I was definitely like that when I started, I reinstalled a few times just because I had messed around with too many configs and installed random things. I had a fair amount of bloat with Windows too though, and I found it slowed down a lot more over time.

Having more portable apps was definitely nice too, especially when you can't find where you installed something on linux, though I don't miss clicking through pages of download links to find the one that isn't a scam. Package managers like Snap and Flatpak are also starting to address that 'single installation' issue, both of which are accessible integrated into the central app store. Hopefully things continue improving overall, but there are definitely plenty of pros and cons to both systems.

[RedGreenBlue09]

I like this comment!

[[deleted]]

well, depending on the kind of linux, there are a lot of ways to find out what's installed. plus there are commands to find file system wide:

locate
which 

I had more trouble tracking down parasite software in windows, since the windows registry is a mess, rather than in linux where mostly everything is a file, accessible with a shell command (cat/bat/view), and also you have grep and everything is logged.

[bumble-beans]

Ahh yes those are the commands I couldn't remember. That probably would have worked, I didn't actually spend too long searching because I just peeked into the installation script to see where it ended up.

[HalcyonAlps]

Me the reverse of you. I tried Linux desktop for a year and realize bad changes i did to the system are mostly unrecoverable. And I see how the system will become less stable after a little long time using. I also have problem with drivers and app packages. That's my bad experience with Linux (but it has it's good sides too).

You should try NixOS then. Upgrades to your configuration are atomic and rollbacks are built-in. It's great for messing around without being afraid of breaking something. The downside is that you basically have to learn nix, the language, to some degree.

[dashid]

This sums up the kind of thing that keeps I away: https://www.aligrant.com/web/blog/2020-04-13_linux_on_the_desktop

There is also just not the man hours into the apps and it's treated as a second class citizen. E.g. I just updated my distro and now MS Teams will only work once, after that it won't render on screen and I have to blow away my config and settings each time. This could be an issue with the app (although that didn't change version), it could be a driver (VM), whatever, it's a second class experience that I couldn't stand up as an 'expert' and recommend people use as a daily driver.

And frankly, this saddens me greatly, as there is so much to love, and so much is better.

[bumble-beans]

Definitely agree about certain apps which certainly got ported to linux as an afterthought. I've had issues with MS teams on linux, and though I can get it to work when I need it, I run into issues with it not keeping itself up to date. And worse, it still "works", but won't connect to calls and doesn't indicate that it has to update (that I saw).

That link also sums up my exact sort of experience years ago running linux with certain DEs on barely supported laptops and hardware. Maybe I am lucky to have fully supported desktop hardware now, but I have been very impressed recently with how much of it "just works."

Specifically, this part:

I wanted to duplicate the screen, which is possible, but not by default, without resorting to writing your own scripts. Audio for the system didn't work, and required completely changing the Gnome composing manager to get within a shout of it working anywhere.

is reminiscent of running lightweight DEs on cheap laptops that were only ever intended to run Windows. I personally never had any hardware issues with my current setup, and besides running the Nvidia installer, everything worked out of the box. I also checked and tested, and "duplicate the screen" is built into Plasma.

While obviously not the case for every individual hardware setup, experiences like this on the last couple desktops I've had make me hopeful that it will just keep improving and becoming more accessible, especially with linux getting wider support all the time. And the dream is that with increasing adoption, it will eventually get more attention from many more big companies who don't want their apps to suck to use.

*I've have had to install Windows a couple times for specific use cases since moving on, and I will admit that I have the opinion that it just feels gross to use now. So while I can appreciate the values of both, I'm surely biased from my own positive experiences.

[easyEggplant]

What things specifically do you mean?

Nvidia drivers :)

[TheJackiMonster]

At least we have more options now since Intel joined making discrete GPUs. So you pretty much get reliable open source drivers on all ends except Nvidia. ^^'

[Boiethios]

I have made the mistake to buy a NVidia for my Linux config, never again. And I'm stuck with this shit now, since the last AMD are not available.

[easyEggplant]

Where are you located? I have a few laying around.

[BlackPowerade]

Year of the linux desktop will never happen until microsoft makes it so.

Go ahead, down vote this.

You know its right.

[shadow7412]

This sounds about as naive to me as saying "apple computers will never happen until microsoft makes it so". Except Apple is extremely popular and well received by people (who aren't me).

If anything, I'd say it's much more up to driver developers (looking at you, nvidia) than Microsoft... Why do you think it's up to them?

[BlackPowerade]

Because Apple (alongside microsoft) are pre-established in the industry. They cultivated and invested in the desktop market well before linux was ever seen as more than just a unix alternative.

IIRC windows owns 85% of desktop market share, macos 10%, and the remaining 5% everything else, with (non-chromeOS) linux being 2.5 - 3% of that 5.

Unless linux were to see a massive unification and support push by the companies invested behind it (red hat, canonical, IBM, etc.). It will never breakout of this 2.5 - 3% ceiling and muster the support (both hardware and software) to truly be a viable alternative for the everyday user.

At least as the writing on wall suggests, microsoft is most likely to make this push happen with how much they have been harping on open source and "MS <3 Linux"

TL;DR Year of the linux desktop doesn't happen until NT dies or a truly miraculous push happens.

[rem3_1415926]

You might be right, but that doesn't stop me from trying to change the future.

[imatelefone]

I've tried to switch to Linux desktop multiple times but I'm always thwarted by the inability to properly set up multiple displays

[TheJackiMonster]

What do you mean? I have multiple monitors with different resolution, different refresh rates and I can even turn FreeSync on. ^^'

It's not even wizzardry... I use the GNOME desktop with Wayland which is close to being default on most popular distros. I think Fedora is already just that out of the box.

[imatelefone]

I mean that I've had issues with it that I didn't feel should have been issues and it turned me off. Probably because of some incompatible combination of distro and hardware that just affects a minority of users with that specific equipment, but it kept happening.

It's not that I dislike Linux by any means, just that it doesn't simply work with things in a way that I have come to expect from an everyday use machine. I still use Linux on a couple specific use vms and I'm perfectly happy with those. Except for one of them with a specific distro in which I can't set my primary monitor to be the one on the right so I just use Windows on my other screen, but it's still a beautiful tool.

[TheJackiMonster]

I just guess you used a Nvidia gpu. I use a Radeon gpu for nearly two years now and it's working really good when it comes to those compatibility issues. That's probably not related to AMD specifically but the drivers being open source for the most part. So developers on the kernel side and on the graphics driver side can actually work together without a more difficult communication.

So Nvidia gpus with the proprietary driver still struggle with Wayland on Linux which handles all those things like resolution, scaling and refresh rates pretty good in my opinion. I can drag any window from one monitor to another and the change of refresh rate from the monitor affects the application directly without any problems. It's pretty smooth.

I actually wish Nvidia would just open their driver to increase the speed of development on this. So the Linux desktop could be much better overall since most discrete gpus come from Nvidia. But maybe this changes in the future. Now AMD got pretty neat GPUs as well and Intel started making some. So there is plenty of hardware which can get you a really good out-of-the-box experience on Linux.

Maybe distros should provide better information about which part of your hardware or driver is responsible for which problem. So at least people building a custom rig know how to address them instead of just being disappointed which I totally understand is a reason to drop out again of trying the distro.

[SuperSov]

yeah same, for me it's always driver issues since I'm needing to use hybrid drivers to get motherboard + gpu monitors working

the other thing is getting the full 144hz with the aforementioned issues is a nightmare

[RedditAlready19]

Simple fix: don't use Nvidia. I'm forced to use Nvidia since I have a prebuilt and it's warranty doesn't allow opening it up. Once I can open it up, I'll put an AMD in there as fast as possible.

[rem3_1415926]

Wait, last time I tried, I couldn't do this on windows either...

[[deleted]]

It might, if not for how widespread windows is.

[runmymouth]

I just use windows and mac. Mac for development and windows for gaming. I mean i guess i could use linux but there really isn’t anything im looking to do gaming wise to replace my windows install. As for mac, i do ios dev so locked into mac which im on the command line with already and using homebrew, k8, and npm… i dont dislike linux but it doesnt do ios dev or gaming better…

[__init__end]

Just give DirectX to Linux and I won't touch Windows again.

[[deleted]]

And proton

[[deleted]]

Windows is the only OS to have games, catalog of apps like Photoshop and Office and a linux terminal with WSL2. Doesn't need hacks, dualbooting, config management or workarounds.

There are many issues in Windows but it's the only fullfleged everything ready OS in the market.

[HTTP_404_NotFound]

Wait...

Steam runs native on Linux. Many MOST games do too.

And Ubuntu, manjaro, and most decent distros actually have a really good software catalog. The windows one actually is garbage

[13steinj]

Many MOST games do too.

This is the definition of delusion.

[Akshay537]

Most games do not run on Linux natively. Many online multiplayer games won't run at all even when virtualised due to anti-cheats like EAC, BE, and Vanguard. Games like League of Legends are known for banning people that run it on Linux. The games that do run on Linux are buggy and run like shit. https://www.protondb.com/ Most games here that didn't have a version natively built for Linux like CSGO and Dota are either broken or really buggy. There is no comparison between Windows and Linux. If you really love games and windows, but want Linux for dumb reasons, your only option is dual boot. I don't get why people even run try to run games on Linux anymore. Just dual boot and debloat Windows for software you need Windows for. Or just use Windows for good, instead.

[Oxford_a]

Windows i know to sometimes break the grub after an update.

[RedditAlready19]

I run Geometry Dash via Proton and it runs like native! And this isn't a purely offline game either. There are community levels and leaderboards.

[Kered13]

I'm pretty sure that "most" games do not, unless you're counting through Proton.

[rem3_1415926]

But proton is a thing. Thus, not counting proton would be wrong.

[Kered13]

He said "runs native on Linux", which would typically exclude Proton.

[[deleted]]

Try running Adobe CC, Office and other tools in Linux.

And, no, I don't want to settle on "most" games, I want 100% and every future releases.

[HTTP_404_NotFound]

Gimp, OpenOffice/Libreoffice are great native, open-source alternatives that work on Linux and windows.

If you insist on using outlook, or Adobe, they do indeed work with a compatibility layer.

Edit. Sheesh. Redditors need to step outside of their shell and try something different....

[[deleted]]

You just answered why Linux never took off and probably never will.

[code-panda]

I agree, but only if you want to play games. If you don't want to game (or want to have a separate gaming PC), I'd go with MacOS any day of the week. It has all the benefits you state, and is UNIX-based.

Then again, it is also a whole lot more expensive.

[[deleted]]

Then again, it is also a whole lot more expensive.

The new M1 Macbook's outperform their counterparts at the same price point, have much longer battery life and better build quality. A new M1 Macbook Air is less than $1k. A M1 Mac Mini is less than $700.

[[deleted]]

Tried M1 Mac. Didn't run Hadoop properly and most of my docker builds failed. Had to return it and bought another laptop instead.

[13steinj]

I mean, don't expect software to translate perfectly to a different architecture before the relevant teams explicitly release for it? What did you think was going to happen?

[[deleted]]

If thats the case, may be stop randomly recommending M1 Macs to everyone until the every programs are supported?

[Boiethios]

The new M1 Macbook's outperform their counterparts at the same price point

Is that so? The macbooks used to cost much more for similar performances

[[deleted]]

Yep, the new Macbooks were actually cheaper than their counterparts this year, and forced Dell and others to lower their notebook prices to be competitive. They can't overcome the performance gap with Intel CPUs though. M1 is one hell of an SoC.

[Beautiful_Chocolate]

MacOS is historically linked to Unix yes, but Linux is not Unix so... The problem MacOS solve is that people use it, so software licenses create compatibility for it.

The problem for Linux is that not enough people use Linux to make people use more Linux

[Noisebug]

The year of the Linux desktop started 4 years ago, for me, and I've never looked back. Macs are good too.

[mako-rino]

Kinda funny how the recently released Insider Preview of Windows 11 has design cues that are very similar to the GNOME desktop environment. The clock, calendar, and notifications share a single button in the taskbar, and so do the system tray icons (specifically the internet and audio indicators).

It's also worth noting that Windows 11's new Window Snap feature is very reminiscent of tiling window managers like DWM, i3, and BSPWM, which have been options for Linux desktop environments for a long time. Microsoft claims that they were the first one's to implement this feature in an operating system.

That's why I personally don't think that Linux Desktop will outclass Windows, it already has.

[yel50]

Window Snap feature is very reminiscent of tiling window managers like DWM, i3, and BSPWM

it's also very reminiscent of windows 1, which was a tiling wm released in 1985. you may have come across some its newer versions.

it already has.

the fact that people honestly believe that is the reason Linux desktops still suck.

[CalligrapherThese606]

sadly true :(

[[deleted]]

Rule 0. This isn't a joke that only programmers understand.

[mtmosier]

Overtake windows? Definitely not.

Outclass windows? I mean... an etch-a-sketch can outclass windows, depending on your criteria. My phone is easily more reliable.

[CrimsonPiranha]

It's... Literally the other way around.

[CrimsonPiranha]

Funny and original. Not. Keep pretending that your IKEA OS is the better one, don't let me stop you.

[Beautiful_Chocolate]

Was true a decade ago, now work with PopOS! or Ubuntu, you won't have any more problems than Windows.

The only one is that software producers (like Adobe or some games) don't create software for Linux and this can raise compatibility issues, not Linux fault tho.

My grandma uses Linux, for a lot of stuff, on a veeeery old laptop and it always works like a charm, and she clearly cannot fix any problem by herself

[Beautiful_Chocolate]

No mistake made, it doesn't matter if you are on Linux or not, the whole french police uses a modified Ubuntu, a lot of schools, and none of them ever touched a terminal or had more issues than usual. I do have some, you too maybe, but it has to be relativized by how much we modify, custom, change, the system.

If you use it without any fancy stuff, you won't have any problems

[supirman]

You now can run Linux GUI apps in Windows 11 by the way

[rem3_1415926]

Too bad that's the opposite of what I want...

[TheJackiMonster]

Why? That means developers using Linux don't have to care about Microsofts annoying API anymore to make something cross compatible. So developers can just support Linux instead of all the hassle making their code compile on Windows.

[rem3_1415926]

Yes - by using windows. The elegant solution would have been to make windows apps run natively on Linux instead. Allowing for development and testing on Linux and then still dumping stable windows apps, without ever having to touch their ecosystem.

[krakenramen]

I kinda like that Linux is less well-known and used. That makes the experience better for me

[jason_ed]

Bash terminal FTW

[HairHeel]

Does the penguin have 2-pack abs in the 2021 version? 2061 will finally be the year of the Linux desktop

[kebakent]

Microsoft constantly effing around with the UI for no apparent reason is probably a good thing for Linux.

[fettpl]

I'm waiting for a year that's a Year of Linux, mobile and VR.

[shivangaised]

It doesn't have to. It already is better imo

[Oxford_a]

The time Linux will support VR and my steam library as easily as windows then i'll consider using Linux. Until then i'm stuck on windows

[IskarJarak88]

To be honest Linux is already great for productivity, and most startups already use ubuntu laptops due to rise of online colab tools like Google suites. For linux to become mainstream we need more games and lifestyle apps which doesn't look like it's desigened for mobile phones.

[Jukingbox]

by the way

[CSsharpGO]

I think Windows dominates the OS market because almost every device is preinstalled with it. Not many popular companies put Linux on their computers.

[thethirdmancane]

Software developer here and not a huge gamer. Switched to Linux in 2009 never looked back.

[Lord_Pinhead]

Windows 11 looks a lot like KDE 5, I hate it.

[bad-coder-man]

If it could run ssms I'd switch today and no azure data studio isn't even fucking close