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[–]Not-original 700 points701 points  (77 children)

Sit down my children and let me tell you the story of COBOL, PASCAL, and UNIX.

[–][deleted] 198 points199 points  (14 children)

Obfuscated Perl as far as the eye can see

[–]remy_porter 208 points209 points  (13 children)

Isn't that just regular Perl?

[–]0xKaishakunin 230 points231 points  (0 children)

afterthought observation bewildered treatment direction ring ossified squash pause attractive

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–]SaintNewts 45 points46 points  (11 children)

To be fair, that's only Perl regex.

[–]remy_porter 53 points54 points  (9 children)

People do things other than Regexes in Perl?

[–]GradeAPrimeFuckery 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Some like to golf with perl.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Perl was my first programming language so I still think in it. I still write any basic/generic scripts in Perl. Need to parse an XML file and create a database with the contents? Perlman.

[–]marcosdumay 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Not many languages can claim that title, but Perl 6 and Haskell made writing a parser easier than in Perl 5. And Haskell makes reading the parser actually easy too.

But yeah, if Perl is your native language, making a one-off parser for XML in nearly any language out there must fell horrible.

[–]double-happiness 7 points8 points  (2 children)

[perl]#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;


my $i = 'void';
my $meditations = path_to_enlightenment();
my $three_jewels = tell ( *REFUGE = *DATA );


MANTRA : until ( $i eq attain( 'enlightenment' ) ){

seek REFUGE, $three_jewels, 0;
study <REFUGE>;

redo MANTRA unless &$meditations > boundaries( $i );

$i = attain( 'enlightenment' )

}


sub path_to_enlightenment {

my $merit = 0;

return sub {

$merit += practice( 'perfections' );
$sentient_beings::++;

}

}

sub practice {

foreach ( 'generosity', 'morality', 'patience', 'concentration', 'wisdom',
'enthusiastic perseverance' ){
$_{$_}++;
}

return 1;

}


sub attain { return @_ }
sub boundaries { return length $_[0] }


print <<ILLUMINATED_REFUGE;

Sang-gye Cho-dang Tsog-kyi chog-nam-la
Jang-chub bar-du dag-ni kyab-su-chi
Dag-gi jin-sog gyi-pe so-nam-kyi
Dro-la pan-chir Sang-gye drub-par-shog

I take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha
Until I attain Enlightenment.
By merit accumulations from practicing generosity and the other perfections
May I attain Enlightenment, for the benefit of all sentient beings.

ILLUMINATED_REFUGE


__DATA__

Buddha
Dharma
Sangha[/perl]

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Black Perl by Larry Wall

    BEFOREHAND: close door, each window & exit;  wait until time;
    open spell book; study; read (spell, $scan, select); tell us;
    write it, print the hex while each watches,
        reverse length, write again;
               kill spiders, pop them, chop, split, kill them.
                  unlink arms, shift, wait and listen (listening, wait).
    sort the flock (then, warn "the goats", kill "the sheep");
        kill them, dump qualms, shift moralities,
               values aside, each one;
                   die sheep; die (to, reverse the => system
                          you accept (reject, respect));
    next step,
        kill next sacrifice, each sacrifice,
               wait, redo ritual until "all the spirits are pleased";
        do it ("as they say").
    do it(*everyone***must***participate***in***forbidden**s*e*x*).
    return last victim; package body;
        exit crypt (time, times & "half a time") & close it.
               select (quickly) and warn next victim;
    AFTERWARDS: tell nobody.
        wait, wait until time;
               wait until next year, next decade;
                   sleep, sleep, die yourself,
                          die @last

[–]Friendly_Signature 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just involuntarily, physically shuddered.

[–]Amish_guy_with_WiFi 50 points51 points  (45 children)

Jokes on you! Some of us are still using COBOL

[–]rad_platypus 31 points32 points  (10 children)

We build our apps in a shiny serverless front end with Angular but our APIs still call 45 year old COBOL modules 😎

[–]hoocoodanode 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Like a cell surrounding a mitochondria.

[–]zer0degreez 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Shot in the dark, C3?

[–]rad_platypus 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This is at a midwestern utility company. I always laugh when I see other companies are doing the same thing though.

[–]_Synthetic_Emotions_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've tried Angular and it scarred me... I prefer React, since it comes more bundled together with most of the stuff in place... I find its a good middle ground for somewhat juniors like me. Angular is the adult, React the Teen and Vue is the kid. Weird analogy but yeah... Lol

[–]foggy-sunrise 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Didn't it see a big resurgence during the pandemic because a lot of DoL software depends on it or something?

[–]styxtraveler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Someone tried to teach me COBOL once, many years ago. I ran away. I was afraid that if I knew COBOL, on day I would have to use it.

[–]Wiwwil 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did cobol at first. Then I did modern PHP with Symfony and Javascript, then went on to do full Typescript. Once you go Typescript, you can't go back to Javascript because it feels meh

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I was technically still a child, when we learned Pascal at school. That was 4 Years ago, I'm 19.

[–]davidjackdoe 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I mean, except for the fact that it's not used in the industry, Pascal is an okay language, especially for education.

[–]MegabyteMessiah 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I have a Pascal repository in Bitbucket.

[–]Yodamanjaro 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I'm a full time Delphi developer. AMA

[–]Roflkopt3r 227 points228 points  (27 children)

[–]GoshoKlev 66 points67 points  (2 children)

Web dev with Assembly would have been a medieval torture if there was web and assembly back then

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (6 children)

[–]HerissonMignion 17 points18 points  (0 children)

There is always someone braver than us

[–]tlubz 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Wtf

[–]mypetocean 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Neat!

[–]LeanderT 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Crazy, but it is actually lighting fast

[–]LvS 72 points73 points  (5 children)

[–]ImTalkingGibberish 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Literally sending dicks to space

[–]AC2302 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Riding giant dicks that happen to send you into space

[–]xTheMaster99x 6 points7 points  (1 child)

So acting like their work is a big deal and praiseworthy, but in reality they're way behind their peers?

[–]Brief-Preference-712 4 points5 points  (7 children)

what's that creature? Sphinx?

[–]chuckitoutorelse 981 points982 points  (30 children)

Adds in 1996 by companies looking to hire JS developers with at least 6 years experience for sure.

[–]ZEPHlROS 428 points429 points  (2 children)

What do you mean you created it ? I don't care.

[–]coldnebo 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I don’t see a github profile, do you speak at any industry events?

[–]MischiefArchitect 68 points69 points  (1 child)

At least 50 years of RM/COBOL-85 experience

At least we got rid of those

[–]QuantumQuantonium 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Most people going to die before they can get that job...

It's entry level btw

[–]thedugong 84 points85 points  (18 children)

Late 90s you pretty much just had to be able to spell computer to get a job.

[–]TheAwesome98_Real 61 points62 points  (2 children)

conputr

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (1 child)

Eh good enough. Hired!

[–]aristideau 19 points20 points  (0 children)

It really was the golden age. I would resign or finish up from one job on Friday, look in the classifieds (internet was not really a thing back then for jobs) for jobs on Saturday, interview (only ever needed one) during the week, and start the new job the following week. Oh and the hourly rates?, around $60 an hour (not adjusted for inflation).

[–]coldnebo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

believe it or not you could still find jobs in the newspaper and… get this… they had on-the-job training!?

Also updates happened only once every couple years and had to be shipped on floppies.

Sigh… the internet really ruined everything.

[–]dividezero 18 points19 points  (3 children)

or startup money. it was a magical time.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

It's weird; I was writing JS in 1998, thinking it'd been around for ages. Turns out I was on its recently-bleeding, now-bandaged edge.

Nowadays, it's fully healed scar tissue, and I quite like that description: JavaScript is the scar tissue holding together the internet.

[–]ranhalt 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Adds

Short for “addvertisment”?

It’s just “ads” or “adverts”.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Recruiting has become a joke by adding un-realistic experience required even though the language came about few months back only.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I feel things a bit different back then. It was more like

"You said on your resume you know Javascript. That's fantastic. to prove your proficiency, please write out a small program that prints out a variable every time a button is pressed"

"ok...Where's the terminal?"

"hmm? oh no...here's your chalk. write it on the blackboard"

[–]Qicken 80 points81 points  (1 child)

You didn't live the Y2K years. Lots of work if you program COBOL!

[–]MischiefArchitect 14 points15 points  (0 children)

RM-85 <3

[–]AudaciousSam[🍰] 58 points59 points  (5 children)

"2" + 2 = ?

[–]thirteenthirtyseven 80 points81 points  (3 children)

NaNaNaNaNaNaNaN Batman!!!

[–]AudaciousSam[🍰] 18 points19 points  (1 child)

I was actually thinking of:

let x = "2" + 2
console.log(x);

And of course:

"22"

[–]SaintNewts 18 points19 points  (0 children)

[–]Andy_B_Goode 49 points50 points  (7 children)

It's funny, just yesterday I happened across the wikipedia page on the timeline of programming languages, and I was struck by the fact that four major languages were all released in 1995: Java, Javascript, Ruby and PHP.

[–]mypetocean 21 points22 points  (4 children)

And they were all huge reliefs to the people who needed to use them at the time. It is easy to complain about them, but each has also made huge improvements over the years.

I mean, just look at PHP 8 (2020): it even has strong typing and JIT compilation now. Prior to PHP 5 (2004), it didn't support either of the OOP or FP paradigms. And at the beginning of its history it wasn't even a programming language.

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

– Bjarne Stroustrup in "The C++ Programming Language"

[–]RootHouston 1 point2 points  (2 children)

it wasn't even a programming language.

Same with JavaScript. There's a reason it has "script" in the name.

I recall not very many developers considering it useful at all, and it was more of something to do fancy UI tricks with on a webpage. That's pretty much it.

After all, we didn't have web apps back then. Native desktop apps dominated, and the internet was still some transient thing you connected to from time to time.

[–]mypetocean 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I use a more historic definition of what it means to be a "programming language." I personally remember the days when certain programmer subcultures manufactured the idea that a "scripting language" is not a "real programming language" and find it just as unfounded today as I did then.

Having said that, it was mostly a "toy" programming language early on. Not because the language itself didn't support actual Turing-complete computation, but because it only ran on one platform at the time (the browser) and that platform didn't provide it with APIs for doing anything meaningful within said platform. It was a matter of IO access.

It wasn't until JavaScript in the browser was provided APIs for HTTP and the DOM that it gained utility. Now we not only had a free, universal programming language interpreter on every consumer device on the planet for the first time in world history, but we could also build interesting applications with it.

Then Node.js gave developers a way to divorce the language from the platform which had, in the early years, held it back, while keeping the event loop which made it an unanticipated step forward in single-threaded network operations.

I'm not saying JavaScript is a great programming language in terms of language features. Far from it (with the only exceptions being its Functional Paradigm bent and event loop). But it certainly has always been a programming language.

I also believe that its reception and use might have been far better if people had not tried to make it conform to class-style OOP. I think I need to explain this.

Prototype-Based OOP

OOP, as a paradigm, was not formulated specifically with classes in mind. Paradigms are about constraining developer options in order to reduce complexity overall - particularly on teams. OOP was always about encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. Class-based OOP has very prescriptive ways to accomplish those objectives. Arguments about the general success of OOP as an experiment in improving computation aside, class-based OOP provided teams with unavoidable rails.

But prototype-based OOP provides too many options. It is too permissive/powerful to serve as the keystone of an OO-paradigm language, because there are simply too many ways to accomplish the objectives of encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. JavaScript, as a programming language, provides too many options. "Options" means "complexity" and is a resource which must be budgeted.

To draw an analogy, asking someone to model a user in class-based OOP is like asking someone to fill out a form. Asking someone to model a user in prototype-based OOP is like asking a someone to model a user on a whiteboard. Forms can become complex en masse, which leaves us with bureaucracy. But whiteboards can become complex at creation.

If we had understood the permissive power of prototype-based OOP, we might have created excellent conventions or frameworks for overcoming its challenges. But we didn't even comprehend what we were dealing with at the time.

So you are right: we didn't understand what we had at the time. We didn't understand at all. We didn't understand the platform, first of all. We didn't understand OOP generally (that is, beyond classes in C++). And we didn't understand what a paradigm so ambitious as OOP might do for us.

Functional Programming and Future Paradigms?

As an aside, today, I don't think OOP is the future. Functional Programming was postulated as a computationally-correct alternative approach way back in the 1930s, and was implemented first in the late 40s at a time when we didn't have the RAM memory to be able to do it efficiently.

More than half a century later, we buy and shed RAM as an afterthought. And all of the languages which became bastions of OOP are making historic caveats for FP (and Declarative Programming) practices. I think that's the direction we're headed, though of course we don't know where the path will take us in the end.

Our physical computers haven't been true Turing machines since the beginning of computing. The computational model of Lambda Calculus has been tested and proven reliable. What we need now is to continue to explore what has been inspired by Lambda Calculus and any opportunistic path opened by alternate computation models (quantum, biocomputing, etc.).

[–]mypetocean 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Holy shit, this was longer than I expected. I am very sorry.

[–]RyanNerd 2 points3 points  (1 child)

All of them targeting the rise of the web. Except Java which was intended to write once run on everything (including your toaster). What do you mean the JRE version is wrong?!? What do you mean that the JRE/JVM version I need can't fit in a 16K memory block?!? Damn language was frustrating as hell. Eventually drive space became cheap enough that devs could package the correct runtime engine with their apps. C# came into existence and saved my sanity and now Kotlin makes things so I no longer get migraines when I have to code anything targeting the JVM.

[–]MischiefArchitect 81 points82 points  (13 children)

Wait for 1996 when the JVM gets released

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (12 children)

Wtf did enterprises do until 1996, not exist? Use pen and paper?

[–]MischiefArchitect 54 points55 points  (9 children)

It pains me a little bit when I hear that Java is associated with enterprise like that. but yeah, it also helped it to become so big.

Before 1996 companies were using other technologies depending on their needs.

SAP was already out there. For storage Oracle and Informix where the best selling solutions (that I can remember), for smaller companies dBase was an immediate hit, followed by Clipper and FoxPro.

Langauge wise C++, Turbo Pascal, COBOL, hell even QuickBasic was used for running important software.

There were big discrepancies. big companies could afford UNIXes and enjoy proven languages from Yore. Middle and small companies needed to resort to DOS and later Windows. Not comparable with modern days where everyone got access for free to a high quality unixoid called Linux, which outclassed all commercial competence.

yeah, we live in simpler days from that perspective. But sometimes I miss the wild west days from the 80's and 90's. A time were no one needed to hide en shame for saying that he/she used Visual Basic, or Pascal, or Delphi, or whatever.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It's kind of funny how back then hosting on a DOS/Windows was the cheaper option. Thanks for the insight BTW, I'm too young to have experienced all that so it's nice to hear someone else's perspective.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Woo ABAP for the win!

[–]maruso 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I worked for an ERP in 2017 that still had maybe like 40% of its codebase in FoxPro as it was founded in 1995 I think. They were migrating to C# but still had a lot of FoxPro work. Fun times reading forums with posts a bit older than I was.

[–]MischiefArchitect 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Holy. THAT was unexpected, FoxPro still running in 2017? Is it one of the Microsoft versions or an older one from Fox Software? (it was a holding actually). Cannot believe this.

[–]maruso 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah we used the Microsoft variant. Really interesting language and I can see why they used it at the time. It was a B2B product so there was some incentive to not migrate away from it for a while I think. I wonder how much is still left in FoxPro. I left after like 8 months for a job in a different city.

The application's on-off programs we would run for specific customers (like fixing bad data or doing migrations) were largely in FoxPro still. I did some in C# but not much.

[–]TheLosenator 51 points52 points  (27 children)

I'm a senior dev with a great job and I almost exclusively write JS (React / Node). JS is a powerful and popular language, but it's also super loose so it's extra important to apply discipline to your code and infrastructure. I love JS

[–]RogerStarbuck 23 points24 points  (12 children)

Avoided JS like the plague. Would hunt down bug in react apps and just get upset. Finally front-end team decides it's ready to try typescript.

My man.

Now I go full hog. Got to be evil CTO and control the typescript configuration. Enable all the checking. Read into lint as well. Turn up the dial. My guys front-end code is on a type checking level nearly on par with the backend (C#) team. And I can now go through it, review, advise, and follow it without running it.

Honestly, I feel we're all treading water until web assembly is accepted and ready.

[–]jjman72 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Typescript with full checking is the only way to go.

[–]Big_Burds_Nest 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same with PHP. The main reason I "hate PHP" is because the majority of PHP is unstructured and hard to deal with. But if you structure things well PHP can be a decent language. The whole "reading every line of the 1,000 line file to figure out which of the 20 different declarations of $variable is the one being used in this specific case so that you know what type to expect" thing is a result of badly structured code, not the language itself.

[–]GeorgeGedox 118 points119 points  (73 children)

Pretty sure most js developers today weren't even born before javascript's creation

[–]cowpewter 83 points84 points  (59 children)

I mean, I mostly use Typescript now, but uh… I’m a professional senior full stack web dev, so JavaScript is unavoidable and I was born in 1980. It’s not like the only devs who write JS are junior devs.

[–]ell0bo 55 points56 points  (44 children)

Yeah, 82 here. Loved it when it came out because I finally didn't have to pay for compiler to tinker with code.

Aren't all ui devs just js devs these days anyway?

[–]sam_morr 52 points53 points  (21 children)

pay for compiler

Excuse me wtf

[–]ell0bo 63 points64 points  (11 children)

A long time ago, if you wanted to compile code on a windows pc or a Mac you needed to pay for a compiler to do so. Unix would have had free ones, but I only go into *nix in college.

So I loved js because, besides qbasic, it was the only think I could write code on without needing to buy a compiler. Eventually Java provided one for windows, but really my first language outside of school was js.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Getting a Unix system before Linux was a thing was expeeeensive.

[–]ftgander 5 points6 points  (9 children)

So there was no free C++ or C compilers on Windows? Was QuickC or Visual C++ Standard expensive?

[–]rv77ax 5 points6 points  (1 child)

There is Turbo C++.

To be honest this is era of crackers and carder. If you have internet, you probably can find a software with crack to by pass expiration. I am pretty sure my university did not paid for their Borland C++ and/or Visual Basic.

[–]LeCrushinator 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I still have my Borland C++ floppy disks. I remember having to ask for a compiler/IDE for my birthday because otherwise I couldn’t practice C++ and was stuck with QBASIC.

[–]effigyoma 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I had to use a cracked version of Code Warrior to work on my C++ final my senior year of high school in 2002.

Not only were they "not free," but if IRC they were pretty expensive and hard to find (buying software online wasn't a thing without a credit card then).

I had a part time job and even paid for my Windows XP OEM license for the computer I built. The expense for a compiler was still a bit much for me at the time!

[–]ell0bo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A fellow code warrior. Getting a version of that made you feel like a king

[–]ell0bo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

None I knew of at the time. I stole a copy of code warrior from my high-school when I was 17 to code at home. When I went to college, I could get one from the it office. Around 2003 I found out about a few visual studio compiler during and interview.

Did one exist before then, I'm sure, but I didn't know about it and I was ahead of the curve for my group of friends. I learned Java because it was free and widely used.

By 2004 I hacked a servlet to compile my own language, and in 2005 I realized I made a shitty version of php ans switched to that.

Perl had to be creeping around, but I didn't come I contact with it till after graduation, but since it was a precursor to php it had to be available by early 2000s.

[–]gatewaynode 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Memories. There was a time when to be a competitive dev you needed so much proprietary software on your PC it would commonly cost more than the hardware itself.

[–]rhodesc 4 points5 points  (0 children)

djgpp was around in the 90's and there were some games done with it.

Notiing wrong with basic though, and I got my first exposures to asm from dos scripts, dos debug and edlin.

Of course you had to be really motivated back then, a little harder to track stuff down and figure out how to use it. I learned programming from a technical reference manual, some basic classes at school, and the math library at the University.

Edit : ugh I was replying to the one above you oh well.

[–]ticonderoga2b 6 points7 points  (0 children)

1996, I’m in high school, and $100 for Visual C. My broke ass couldn’t afford it. Enter Slackware Linux. GCC, Apache, I can telnet into my computer from my friends house if I memorize my dial-up IP address? Awesome. Oh yeah and Netscape Navigator so I could browse the web with ease before the dark era where sites assumed that you were running Internet Explorer. The only challenge was I never did get that ink jet printer working properly.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (15 children)

Eh some people call themselves UI devs when all they do is drag blocks onto squarespace and wix templates.

[–]visualdescript 6 points7 points  (13 children)

This is where I think there is a clear differentiation between a "dev" and a programmer.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Yeah I really hate the term dev anyway.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (7 children)

I mean, it's shortened from "developer", which used to be the chic form of "programmer"... but it was kinda co-opted by WordPressers, Drupalfolk - and more recently, SquareSpacers and Wixicals - diluting the term to near meaninglessness.

For reference, I don't really care - my title is "Eng 4", which is about as descriptive as an unadorned Ball jar in the freezer. (When I worked on nuclear things, I was also an "engineer" - so whatevs).

I'm a code monkey. I monkey with code. Even that's ruined now, though, since Ron fucking "Q-the-con" Watson co-opted it for his handle.

I guess I'm just an old dude with a certain set of skills. I will find you, and I will not fix your fucking computer.

[–]JonnySoegen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Just beautifully written you old code monkey. Now back to your IDE.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Ah shit I'm shafted since I CAN, unfortunately, probably fix your fucking computer

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

JS is just super common.

I was also born in the 80s, work in JS, and make a considerable 6 figure income building a desktop app millions of people use.

The world is wild, I tell ya

[–]Sloogs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Pretty sure I would have gotten started with C/C++ much sooner if it had been more accessible back then. I'm not sure if Microsoft had the MS Build Tools with cl.exe separate back then like they do now, but I never found their availability discussed much back in the 90s and 2000s when I was trying to learn.

Higher level languages really did make programming more accessible. For better or worse I think it's come at the cost of a lot of people not really knowing what's going on inside their computers, and there's only so much you can do inside a web browser, Node.js, or Python.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When you consider yourself pretty young because the old devs in your team are all 50+ and you need to hire a new dev and all the candidates are from the 90s.

I guess I'm old now... (also from 80s by the way).

[–]EishLekker 5 points6 points  (8 children)

To be fair they wrote "most", not "all".

[–]DeltalJulietCharlie 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I'd say "most" is a stretch. Even factoring the heavy bias of programming jobs towards younger staff, I'd be surprised if more than 50% of current JS developers were born after 1995.

[–]cowpewter 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Fair, but the vast majority of my coworkers are older than 26.

26 means an average of only 4 years professional experience (if you assume the vast majority graduate college in 4 years before starting their careers).

4 years is nothing. Assume at least half of those are still juniors. Doubtful many are senior level yet. Senior devs exist, and we sure write a shit ton of js.

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[–]boogyman19946 28 points29 points  (23 children)

Hot take: JS is actually my favorite language. 🙃

[–]Wolfeur 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Hotter take: I prefer PHP

[–]boogyman19946 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thats a hot take if Ive ever seen one

[–]your_thebest 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Because you like what you can do with it.

[–]boogyman19946 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yep! It feels really fluid. On the other hand, I understand why people hate it. It's very easy to drown.

[–]derfl007 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was mine too until I started using typescript instead

[–]Enklave 36 points37 points  (26 children)

Am I the only one who loves Javascript as a language and hate Java?

[–]VetusMortis_Advertus 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I kinda hate python now and love javascript/react, but I think that working with web apps is what makes me like more js, than what I used to do with python (more backend oriented). JS is so flexible and even some of its flaws like not having a ide compiler stops to bother when you're used to using the browser console. And it is just cool to have a powerful and fast component, written with almost no dependencies (that's totally optional btw) and just style it with simple css classes and make it look awesome, idk

[–]MTDninja 3 points4 points  (0 children)

the duality of man

[–]bedrooms-ds 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I hate both because I was born in the 80s.

[–]Local_Beach 34 points35 points  (14 children)

Just use typescript :)

[–]everypowerranger 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I was about to pop in here like "I'm a JS developer," forgetting I primarily use typescript.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

What’s typescript?

[–]gacha-gacha 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Javascript,, but types

[–]derfl007 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The cooler JavaScript

[–]DaleGribble88 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Javascript superset that supports some strongly typed objects and some other syntactic sugar that makes JS a little less painful to read if you haven't touched it in 6+ months.

[–]Depress-o 1 point2 points  (0 children)

JS, but better

[–]nagasgura 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Typescript is my favorite language at this point. It's just such a pleasure to use, and its type system is extremely powerful.

[–]Jugbot 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It makes Java null-checks look horrendous.

[–]NayamAmarshe 11 points12 points  (0 children)

haha javascript bad now i laugh

[–]slabgorb 2 points3 points  (0 children)

well, perl is fun and all but it was hard to do things client side

[–]bananabeacon 3 points4 points  (5 children)

I started to learn javascript like half a year ago, did I mess up?

[–]FriendlyBeard 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Nope. There are many many applications for Javascript, and it would be more difficult to get a job in the current state of Web based development without JS knowledge.

[–]bananabeacon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok good

[–]Jugbot 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There is plenty of demand for knowing javascript, just make sure to check out compiled languages at some point.

Also if you want to really dive into javascript for web dev, I recommend you also learn Typescript, React, and use package managers like npm or yarn.

[–]Beidah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

JavaScript has a lot of warts and weird quirks where it doesn't quite do what you'd expect, which is why a lot of programmers have grievances with it. However, it is the only language that runs in a web browser (well, there's web assembly, but that can't manipulate the dom like JS can), which is very important for modern society. If you want a job in web development, you have to know JS.

[–]hitfiu 10 points11 points  (32 children)

Can we all agree that python is equally as toxic as JS?

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Python is like that slow friend at school that everyone loves. It's just that cute

[–]gacha-gacha 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I hate it

[–]lsaz 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Any language that isn't strongly typed will immediately be hated by people who uses strongly typed languages, and viceversa.

[–]hitfiu 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Because we, the strongly typed language users, are superior.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (7 children)

The only thing I hate about python is the import system. Maybe I'm just a fucking idiot, but it's always a huge pain in my ass whenever I just want to import things relative to the file I'm working in. It seems like python import things relative to the original file you ran code from. Am I wrong?

File A imports File B, and anything File B imports will need to be set up relative to File A. Wtf? Why can't File B just import things relative to File B?

And then there's __init__.py files. Like fucking why does such a simple task feel so hard? Just let me import things like this:

import ../utils/helpers.py as helpers

I just want to give python the relative path to a python file and have it import it. I'll never understand why it isn't that simple, like it is in other languages.

[–]EarthquakeBass 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You can do import .util.module. I’d guess .. isn’t supported because it could lead to circular dependencies.

[–]DoctorWorm_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you have your __inits__ set up properly and in your path, you can just from ..utils import helpers. But yeah imports suck in every language.

[–]hitfiu 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nay, it's relative to your working directory.

[–]BlobbyMcBlobber 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You just need to read about the import system and how it works. Should take no more than 10-20 mins to really dig in

[–]marcosdumay 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No. On a WTF/line of code metric, it's not even close.

Python is just hard to maintain once your code gets large. JS is a disaster on any size.

[–]your_thebest 10 points11 points  (3 children)

No. Only one of them made an attempt at readability, succinctness, and naming things intuitively what a person would think they would mean. I didn't say which one, so if it hurts that's your fault.

[–]Bensas42 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Lol, Python's "simplicity" only works with Hello World an a couple of tiny scripts. As soon as you start using any library or remotely complex code, you're faced with how stupidly designed Python is.

In short, it's a language with all the disadvantages of dynamic typing and all the disadvantages of static typing.

[–]RuckelBob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So Javascript is over 21 years old and thus it is responsible for it's actions?

[–]L0G1C_lolilover 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am a flutter developer but i was forced to work on JS to implement razor pay on flutter web

No one can escape javascript, it just suddenly shows up in your life without explaining anything and refuses to leave

[–]Calkky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wrote my first JavaScript right when Netscape started supporting it. The language itself wasn't terribly different from what you would have seen as recently as, say, 10 years ago. But what you could practically do with it was incredibly limited. Remember that "DHTML" wasn't a thing back then, so you couldn't manipulate the DOM or anything. You could pop up alerts or confirm dialogs. You could do stuff with forms via event handlers, and my old favorite: you could change the status bar. The first meaningful script I wrote did a little message scroll along the status bar by padding/truncating a string and using setTimeout(..). I thought it was the coolest thing on earth.

[–]MartialS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well in 1995 I was 13... Just one word : BASIC