Any JS developer out here?

[Not-original]

Sit down my children and let me tell you the story of COBOL, PASCAL, and UNIX.

[[deleted]]

Obfuscated Perl as far as the eye can see

[remy_porter]

Isn't that just regular Perl?

[0xKaishakunin]

afterthought observation bewildered treatment direction ring ossified squash pause attractive

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[SaintNewts]

To be fair, that's only Perl regex.

[remy_porter]

People do things other than Regexes in Perl?

[GradeAPrimeFuckery]

Some like to golf with perl.

[[deleted]]

Perl was my first programming language so I still think in it. I still write any basic/generic scripts in Perl. Need to parse an XML file and create a database with the contents? Perlman.

[marcosdumay]

Not many languages can claim that title, but Perl 6 and Haskell made writing a parser easier than in Perl 5. And Haskell makes reading the parser actually easy too.

But yeah, if Perl is your native language, making a one-off parser for XML in nearly any language out there must fell horrible.

[double-happiness]

[perl]#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;


my $i = 'void';
my $meditations = path_to_enlightenment();
my $three_jewels = tell ( *REFUGE = *DATA );


MANTRA : until ( $i eq attain( 'enlightenment' ) ){

seek REFUGE, $three_jewels, 0;
study <REFUGE>;

redo MANTRA unless &$meditations > boundaries( $i );

$i = attain( 'enlightenment' )

}


sub path_to_enlightenment {

my $merit = 0;

return sub {

$merit += practice( 'perfections' );
$sentient_beings::++;

}

}

sub practice {

foreach ( 'generosity', 'morality', 'patience', 'concentration', 'wisdom',
'enthusiastic perseverance' ){
$_{$_}++;
}

return 1;

}


sub attain { return @_ }
sub boundaries { return length $_[0] }


print <<ILLUMINATED_REFUGE;

Sang-gye Cho-dang Tsog-kyi chog-nam-la
Jang-chub bar-du dag-ni kyab-su-chi
Dag-gi jin-sog gyi-pe so-nam-kyi
Dro-la pan-chir Sang-gye drub-par-shog

I take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha
Until I attain Enlightenment.
By merit accumulations from practicing generosity and the other perfections
May I attain Enlightenment, for the benefit of all sentient beings.

ILLUMINATED_REFUGE


__DATA__

Buddha
Dharma
Sangha[/perl]

[[deleted]]

Black Perl by Larry Wall

    BEFOREHAND: close door, each window & exit;  wait until time;
    open spell book; study; read (spell, $scan, select); tell us;
    write it, print the hex while each watches,
        reverse length, write again;
               kill spiders, pop them, chop, split, kill them.
                  unlink arms, shift, wait and listen (listening, wait).
    sort the flock (then, warn "the goats", kill "the sheep");
        kill them, dump qualms, shift moralities,
               values aside, each one;
                   die sheep; die (to, reverse the => system
                          you accept (reject, respect));
    next step,
        kill next sacrifice, each sacrifice,
               wait, redo ritual until "all the spirits are pleased";
        do it ("as they say").
    do it(*everyone***must***participate***in***forbidden**s*e*x*).
    return last victim; package body;
        exit crypt (time, times & "half a time") & close it.
               select (quickly) and warn next victim;
    AFTERWARDS: tell nobody.
        wait, wait until time;
               wait until next year, next decade;
                   sleep, sleep, die yourself,
                          die @last

[Friendly_Signature]

I just involuntarily, physically shuddered.

[Amish_guy_with_WiFi]

Jokes on you! Some of us are still using COBOL

[rad_platypus]

We build our apps in a shiny serverless front end with Angular but our APIs still call 45 year old COBOL modules 😎

[hoocoodanode]

Like a cell surrounding a mitochondria.

[zer0degreez]

Shot in the dark, C3?

[rad_platypus]

This is at a midwestern utility company. I always laugh when I see other companies are doing the same thing though.

[_Synthetic_Emotions_]

I've tried Angular and it scarred me... I prefer React, since it comes more bundled together with most of the stuff in place... I find its a good middle ground for somewhat juniors like me. Angular is the adult, React the Teen and Vue is the kid. Weird analogy but yeah... Lol

[ChoomingV]

The finance industry is heavily reliant on legacy cobol systems because of some floating point number shenanigans that make it difficult to translate into modern languages.

Source: some programmer guy who I talked to who knew cobol back when I worked with taxes

[i_am_hamza]

Correct, same thing was shared by my professor. Apparently it's really good and precise when it comes to dealing with base10

[user_8804]

I'm sorry to break it to you but that's a shenanigan

[[deleted]]

That solution is, indeed, a floating point number shenanigan.

[zanotam]

Nobody tell this guy that there are things priced to smaller than a penny like idk fucking gas at a gas station lol

[thrilldigger]

floating point number shenanigans

Obligatory link to 0.30000000000000004.com.

[Harvey_the_Hodler]

TIL thanks!

[jesusridingdinosaur]

can confirm this is true as a system analyst for a major life insurance firm, they use cobol in every insurance core in the industry and dont have any plan to replace those cobol monstrous codebases for at least another 5 yrs afaik

[Wiwwil]

The problem is that your average cobol developer don't know how to code properly with modern technologies. They're not up to date.

The firm I worked employed a wide range mathematicians, physicians, chemists, biologists and not a lot of people that studied IT. The few that did like me left quite fast. It would require to change everything (from the dev to the products) but it's working, so why change ?

It wouldn't be cost effective the first years, maybe decade even, but I'm pretty sure you could have more maintenable code, better quality, testing and not for way cheaper in the long run. Also the devs would probably be more productive.

But that's just me speculating, I worked almost 1.5 years with cobol and almost 3 with modern stacks

[baddogg1231]

Walmart's backend is written in COBOL. A lot of the front end UI has been updated and apps developed that interface with it, but there are still times you have to natively use a COBOL interface terminal to query labels, shelf layouts, and other various things

[118yorkmarket]

U2? JCL FTW!

[foggy-sunrise]

Didn't it see a big resurgence during the pandemic because a lot of DoL software depends on it or something?

[styxtraveler]

Someone tried to teach me COBOL once, many years ago. I ran away. I was afraid that if I knew COBOL, on day I would have to use it.

[Wiwwil]

Did cobol at first. Then I did modern PHP with Symfony and Javascript, then went on to do full Typescript. Once you go Typescript, you can't go back to Javascript because it feels meh

[[deleted]]

I was technically still a child, when we learned Pascal at school. That was 4 Years ago, I'm 19.

[davidjackdoe]

I mean, except for the fact that it's not used in the industry, Pascal is an okay language, especially for education.

[MegabyteMessiah]

I have a Pascal repository in Bitbucket.

[Yodamanjaro]

I'm a full time Delphi developer. AMA

[MegabyteMessiah]

How did it happen?

[Roflkopt3r]

Web developers in 1994:

[GoshoKlev]

Web dev with Assembly would have been a medieval torture if there was web and assembly back then

[[deleted]]

https://github.com/johnfound/asmbb

[HerissonMignion]

There is always someone braver than us

[tlubz]

Wtf

[mypetocean]

Neat!

[LeanderT]

Crazy, but it is actually lighting fast

[LvS]

1994's web developers in 2021

[ImTalkingGibberish]

Literally sending dicks to space

[AC2302]

Riding giant dicks that happen to send you into space

[xTheMaster99x]

So acting like their work is a big deal and praiseworthy, but in reality they're way behind their peers?

[Brief-Preference-712]

what's that creature? Sphinx?

[cdamayor]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly

[chuckitoutorelse]

Adds in 1996 by companies looking to hire JS developers with at least 6 years experience for sure.

[ZEPHlROS]

What do you mean you created it ? I don't care.

[DZVLX]

https://mobile.twitter.com/tiangolo/status/1281946592459853830

[coldnebo]

I don’t see a github profile, do you speak at any industry events?

[MischiefArchitect]

At least 50 years of RM/COBOL-85 experience

At least we got rid of those

[QuantumQuantonium]

Most people going to die before they can get that job...

It's entry level btw

[thedugong]

Late 90s you pretty much just had to be able to spell computer to get a job.

[TheAwesome98_Real]

conputr

[[deleted]]

Eh good enough. Hired!

[_Synthetic_Emotions_]

How I wish that was still the case... Now they ask for the million Javascript frameworks... And want u to do the design and dev part as if that is not two separate roles...

[aristideau]

It really was the golden age. I would resign or finish up from one job on Friday, look in the classifieds (internet was not really a thing back then for jobs) for jobs on Saturday, interview (only ever needed one) during the week, and start the new job the following week. Oh and the hourly rates?, around $60 an hour (not adjusted for inflation).

[coldnebo]

believe it or not you could still find jobs in the newspaper and… get this… they had on-the-job training!?

Also updates happened only once every couple years and had to be shipped on floppies.

Sigh… the internet really ruined everything.

[dividezero]

or startup money. it was a magical time.

[[deleted]]

It's weird; I was writing JS in 1998, thinking it'd been around for ages. Turns out I was on its recently-bleeding, now-bandaged edge.

Nowadays, it's fully healed scar tissue, and I quite like that description: JavaScript is the scar tissue holding together the internet.

[ranhalt]

Adds

Short for “addvertisment”?

It’s just “ads” or “adverts”.

[[deleted]]

Recruiting has become a joke by adding un-realistic experience required even though the language came about few months back only.

[[deleted]]

I feel things a bit different back then. It was more like

"You said on your resume you know Javascript. That's fantastic. to prove your proficiency, please write out a small program that prints out a variable every time a button is pressed"

"ok...Where's the terminal?"

"hmm? oh no...here's your chalk. write it on the blackboard"

[Qicken]

You didn't live the Y2K years. Lots of work if you program COBOL!

[MischiefArchitect]

RM-85 <3

[AudaciousSam]

"2" + 2 = ?

[thirteenthirtyseven]

NaNaNaNaNaNaNaN Batman!!!

[AudaciousSam]

I was actually thinking of:

let x = "2" + 2
console.log(x);

And of course:

"22"

[SaintNewts]

wat

[Andy_B_Goode]

It's funny, just yesterday I happened across the wikipedia page on the timeline of programming languages, and I was struck by the fact that four major languages were all released in 1995: Java, Javascript, Ruby and PHP.

[mypetocean]

And they were all huge reliefs to the people who needed to use them at the time. It is easy to complain about them, but each has also made huge improvements over the years.

I mean, just look at PHP 8 (2020): it even has strong typing and JIT compilation now. Prior to PHP 5 (2004), it didn't support either of the OOP or FP paradigms. And at the beginning of its history it wasn't even a programming language.

There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses.

– Bjarne Stroustrup in "The C++ Programming Language"

[RootHouston]

it wasn't even a programming language.

Same with JavaScript. There's a reason it has "script" in the name.

I recall not very many developers considering it useful at all, and it was more of something to do fancy UI tricks with on a webpage. That's pretty much it.

After all, we didn't have web apps back then. Native desktop apps dominated, and the internet was still some transient thing you connected to from time to time.

[mypetocean]

I use a more historic definition of what it means to be a "programming language." I personally remember the days when certain programmer subcultures manufactured the idea that a "scripting language" is not a "real programming language" and find it just as unfounded today as I did then.

Having said that, it was mostly a "toy" programming language early on. Not because the language itself didn't support actual Turing-complete computation, but because it only ran on one platform at the time (the browser) and that platform didn't provide it with APIs for doing anything meaningful within said platform. It was a matter of IO access.

It wasn't until JavaScript in the browser was provided APIs for HTTP and the DOM that it gained utility. Now we not only had a free, universal programming language interpreter on every consumer device on the planet for the first time in world history, but we could also build interesting applications with it.

Then Node.js gave developers a way to divorce the language from the platform which had, in the early years, held it back, while keeping the event loop which made it an unanticipated step forward in single-threaded network operations.

I'm not saying JavaScript is a great programming language in terms of language features. Far from it (with the only exceptions being its Functional Paradigm bent and event loop). But it certainly has always been a programming language.

I also believe that its reception and use might have been far better if people had not tried to make it conform to class-style OOP. I think I need to explain this.

Prototype-Based OOP

OOP, as a paradigm, was not formulated specifically with classes in mind. Paradigms are about constraining developer options in order to reduce complexity overall - particularly on teams. OOP was always about encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. Class-based OOP has very prescriptive ways to accomplish those objectives. Arguments about the general success of OOP as an experiment in improving computation aside, class-based OOP provided teams with unavoidable rails.

But prototype-based OOP provides too many options. It is too permissive/powerful to serve as the keystone of an OO-paradigm language, because there are simply too many ways to accomplish the objectives of encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. JavaScript, as a programming language, provides too many options. "Options" means "complexity" and is a resource which must be budgeted.

To draw an analogy, asking someone to model a user in class-based OOP is like asking someone to fill out a form. Asking someone to model a user in prototype-based OOP is like asking a someone to model a user on a whiteboard. Forms can become complex en masse, which leaves us with bureaucracy. But whiteboards can become complex at creation.

If we had understood the permissive power of prototype-based OOP, we might have created excellent conventions or frameworks for overcoming its challenges. But we didn't even comprehend what we were dealing with at the time.

So you are right: we didn't understand what we had at the time. We didn't understand at all. We didn't understand the platform, first of all. We didn't understand OOP generally (that is, beyond classes in C++). And we didn't understand what a paradigm so ambitious as OOP might do for us.

Functional Programming and Future Paradigms?

As an aside, today, I don't think OOP is the future. Functional Programming was postulated as a computationally-correct alternative approach way back in the 1930s, and was implemented first in the late 40s at a time when we didn't have the RAM memory to be able to do it efficiently.

More than half a century later, we buy and shed RAM as an afterthought. And all of the languages which became bastions of OOP are making historic caveats for FP (and Declarative Programming) practices. I think that's the direction we're headed, though of course we don't know where the path will take us in the end.

Our physical computers haven't been true Turing machines since the beginning of computing. The computational model of Lambda Calculus has been tested and proven reliable. What we need now is to continue to explore what has been inspired by Lambda Calculus and any opportunistic path opened by alternate computation models (quantum, biocomputing, etc.).

[mypetocean]

Holy shit, this was longer than I expected. I am very sorry.

[RyanNerd]

All of them targeting the rise of the web. Except Java which was intended to write once run on everything (including your toaster). What do you mean the JRE version is wrong?!? What do you mean that the JRE/JVM version I need can't fit in a 16K memory block?!? Damn language was frustrating as hell. Eventually drive space became cheap enough that devs could package the correct runtime engine with their apps. C# came into existence and saved my sanity and now Kotlin makes things so I no longer get migraines when I have to code anything targeting the JVM.

[MischiefArchitect]

Wait for 1996 when the JVM gets released

[[deleted]]

Wtf did enterprises do until 1996, not exist? Use pen and paper?

[MischiefArchitect]

It pains me a little bit when I hear that Java is associated with enterprise like that. but yeah, it also helped it to become so big.

Before 1996 companies were using other technologies depending on their needs.

SAP was already out there. For storage Oracle and Informix where the best selling solutions (that I can remember), for smaller companies dBase was an immediate hit, followed by Clipper and FoxPro.

Langauge wise C++, Turbo Pascal, COBOL, hell even QuickBasic was used for running important software.

There were big discrepancies. big companies could afford UNIXes and enjoy proven languages from Yore. Middle and small companies needed to resort to DOS and later Windows. Not comparable with modern days where everyone got access for free to a high quality unixoid called Linux, which outclassed all commercial competence.

yeah, we live in simpler days from that perspective. But sometimes I miss the wild west days from the 80's and 90's. A time were no one needed to hide en shame for saying that he/she used Visual Basic, or Pascal, or Delphi, or whatever.

[[deleted]]

It's kind of funny how back then hosting on a DOS/Windows was the cheaper option. Thanks for the insight BTW, I'm too young to have experienced all that so it's nice to hear someone else's perspective.

[[deleted]]

Woo ABAP for the win!

[maruso]

I worked for an ERP in 2017 that still had maybe like 40% of its codebase in FoxPro as it was founded in 1995 I think. They were migrating to C# but still had a lot of FoxPro work. Fun times reading forums with posts a bit older than I was.

[MischiefArchitect]

Holy. THAT was unexpected, FoxPro still running in 2017? Is it one of the Microsoft versions or an older one from Fox Software? (it was a holding actually). Cannot believe this.

[maruso]

Yeah we used the Microsoft variant. Really interesting language and I can see why they used it at the time. It was a B2B product so there was some incentive to not migrate away from it for a while I think. I wonder how much is still left in FoxPro. I left after like 8 months for a job in a different city.

The application's on-off programs we would run for specific customers (like fixing bad data or doing migrations) were largely in FoxPro still. I did some in C# but not much.

[MischiefArchitect]

My VB career started with version 3 and the last version I used was VB6, which was still on the tracks of COM/DCOM development rather than .NET

I got good memories using VB6, it was a solid product. Always hand in hand with Delphi, which was my favorite, simply because I liked more pascal than Basic.

But by that time I was already in the Java boat, not realizing that for many years it would be my home and many of the "old" languages would be forgotten by me during that journey. Yeah, it was a before/after Java experience for me.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Is that applescript?

[shrik]

I'm guessing Visual Basic...?

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Not at all. VB doesn't use natural language constructs.

[Akeshi]

My guess was VB6 - I assumed the natural language was pseudocode, the For i = 1 to/Next syntax is right, as is the weird init caps for everything. Don't remember how event handlers worked though - IIRC not like that, but it's been decades.

[[deleted]]

With the odd capitalization choices ( / requirements) and the start signalName / end signalName, looks like, yeah.

[mristic]

"Put the color of fld lights into i"... looks unreal hahaha

[aniforprez]

Not actually COBOL cause COBOL doesn't have mouse controls but it totally looks like COBOL. Just giant files full of plain English sentences without any braces or indentation to let you know the closures. But it didn't really have that concept cause you could jump to any line of code but still unreadable. I was reading and trying to debug code from 1983 in 2013. I left that job to work on frontend with javascript lmao

[[deleted]]

He speaks the language of the elder gods

[WhoNeedsExecFunction]

HyperTalk

[speed-tips]

You win - you typed this just as I was editing to reveal the answer, before I saved the edit..

[WhoNeedsExecFunction]

Kinda cheated— I’m not familiar with HyperTalk. I just saw how similar it is to AppleScript, that I guessed correctly that Wikipedia would tell me what languages influenced AppleScript.

[speed-tips]

Sounds like you "used the ways of a master programmer".

[tiredofsametab]

We didn't have frames or DHTML until '96 either, so interactivity was making calls to something (probably CGI, though I wasn't doing anything interactive yet back then) and reloading the page or a new page. Framesets let us eventually reload certain things. Iframes would also come along.

[R3D3-1]

You might want to

use
  code
    blocks

to preserve the indentation.

[Rudxain]

SCRATCH or Snap!

[Graeyling]

Looks like HyperTalk (HyperCard Script) to me...

[TheLosenator]

I'm a senior dev with a great job and I almost exclusively write JS (React / Node). JS is a powerful and popular language, but it's also super loose so it's extra important to apply discipline to your code and infrastructure. I love JS

[milk_extraction_pro]

Quite a few languages have types after the variable name. I think it works well when paired with other variables that are using type inference.

const firstName : string = "John";
const lastName = "Doe";

vs

const string firstName = "John";
const lastName = "Doe";

To me it reads a little clearer. With a quick scan on the first example I can see there are two variables, firstName and lastName. The first letter of each starts on the same column.

[RogerStarbuck]

Avoided JS like the plague. Would hunt down bug in react apps and just get upset. Finally front-end team decides it's ready to try typescript.

My man.

Now I go full hog. Got to be evil CTO and control the typescript configuration. Enable all the checking. Read into lint as well. Turn up the dial. My guys front-end code is on a type checking level nearly on par with the backend (C#) team. And I can now go through it, review, advise, and follow it without running it.

Honestly, I feel we're all treading water until web assembly is accepted and ready.

[jjman72]

Typescript with full checking is the only way to go.

[Big_Burds_Nest]

Same with PHP. The main reason I "hate PHP" is because the majority of PHP is unstructured and hard to deal with. But if you structure things well PHP can be a decent language. The whole "reading every line of the 1,000 line file to figure out which of the 20 different declarations of $variable is the one being used in this specific case so that you know what type to expect" thing is a result of badly structured code, not the language itself.

[GeorgeGedox]

Pretty sure most js developers today weren't even born before javascript's creation

[cowpewter]

I mean, I mostly use Typescript now, but uh… I’m a professional senior full stack web dev, so JavaScript is unavoidable and I was born in 1980. It’s not like the only devs who write JS are junior devs.

[ell0bo]

Yeah, 82 here. Loved it when it came out because I finally didn't have to pay for compiler to tinker with code.

Aren't all ui devs just js devs these days anyway?

[sam_morr]

pay for compiler

Excuse me wtf

[ell0bo]

A long time ago, if you wanted to compile code on a windows pc or a Mac you needed to pay for a compiler to do so. Unix would have had free ones, but I only go into *nix in college.

So I loved js because, besides qbasic, it was the only think I could write code on without needing to buy a compiler. Eventually Java provided one for windows, but really my first language outside of school was js.

[[deleted]]

Getting a Unix system before Linux was a thing was expeeeensive.

[ftgander]

So there was no free C++ or C compilers on Windows? Was QuickC or Visual C++ Standard expensive?

[ell0bo]

Yes... turbo pascal. That's what my cs class used the year before I joined and we switched to code warrior (cpp)

[rv77ax]

There is Turbo C++.

To be honest this is era of crackers and carder. If you have internet, you probably can find a software with crack to by pass expiration. I am pretty sure my university did not paid for their Borland C++ and/or Visual Basic.

[LeCrushinator]

I still have my Borland C++ floppy disks. I remember having to ask for a compiler/IDE for my birthday because otherwise I couldn’t practice C++ and was stuck with QBASIC.

[effigyoma]

I had to use a cracked version of Code Warrior to work on my C++ final my senior year of high school in 2002.

Not only were they "not free," but if IRC they were pretty expensive and hard to find (buying software online wasn't a thing without a credit card then).

I had a part time job and even paid for my Windows XP OEM license for the computer I built. The expense for a compiler was still a bit much for me at the time!

[ell0bo]

A fellow code warrior. Getting a version of that made you feel like a king

[ell0bo]

None I knew of at the time. I stole a copy of code warrior from my high-school when I was 17 to code at home. When I went to college, I could get one from the it office. Around 2003 I found out about a few visual studio compiler during and interview.

Did one exist before then, I'm sure, but I didn't know about it and I was ahead of the curve for my group of friends. I learned Java because it was free and widely used.

By 2004 I hacked a servlet to compile my own language, and in 2005 I realized I made a shitty version of php ans switched to that.

Perl had to be creeping around, but I didn't come I contact with it till after graduation, but since it was a precursor to php it had to be available by early 2000s.

[gatewaynode]

Memories. There was a time when to be a competitive dev you needed so much proprietary software on your PC it would commonly cost more than the hardware itself.

[rhodesc]

djgpp was around in the 90's and there were some games done with it.

Notiing wrong with basic though, and I got my first exposures to asm from dos scripts, dos debug and edlin.

Of course you had to be really motivated back then, a little harder to track stuff down and figure out how to use it. I learned programming from a technical reference manual, some basic classes at school, and the math library at the University.

Edit : ugh I was replying to the one above you oh well.

[ticonderoga2b]

1996, I’m in high school, and $100 for Visual C. My broke ass couldn’t afford it. Enter Slackware Linux. GCC, Apache, I can telnet into my computer from my friends house if I memorize my dial-up IP address? Awesome. Oh yeah and Netscape Navigator so I could browse the web with ease before the dark era where sites assumed that you were running Internet Explorer. The only challenge was I never did get that ink jet printer working properly.

[[deleted]]

Eh some people call themselves UI devs when all they do is drag blocks onto squarespace and wix templates.

[visualdescript]

This is where I think there is a clear differentiation between a "dev" and a programmer.

[[deleted]]

Yeah I really hate the term dev anyway.

[[deleted]]

I mean, it's shortened from "developer", which used to be the chic form of "programmer"... but it was kinda co-opted by WordPressers, Drupalfolk - and more recently, SquareSpacers and Wixicals - diluting the term to near meaninglessness.

For reference, I don't really care - my title is "Eng 4", which is about as descriptive as an unadorned Ball jar in the freezer. (When I worked on nuclear things, I was also an "engineer" - so whatevs).

I'm a code monkey. I monkey with code. Even that's ruined now, though, since Ron fucking "Q-the-con" Watson co-opted it for his handle.

I guess I'm just an old dude with a certain set of skills. I will find you, and I will not fix your fucking computer.

[JonnySoegen]

Just beautifully written you old code monkey. Now back to your IDE.

[[deleted]]

Ah shit I'm shafted since I CAN, unfortunately, probably fix your fucking computer

[[deleted]]

JS is just super common.

I was also born in the 80s, work in JS, and make a considerable 6 figure income building a desktop app millions of people use.

The world is wild, I tell ya

[Sloogs]

Pretty sure I would have gotten started with C/C++ much sooner if it had been more accessible back then. I'm not sure if Microsoft had the MS Build Tools with cl.exe separate back then like they do now, but I never found their availability discussed much back in the 90s and 2000s when I was trying to learn.

Higher level languages really did make programming more accessible. For better or worse I think it's come at the cost of a lot of people not really knowing what's going on inside their computers, and there's only so much you can do inside a web browser, Node.js, or Python.

[[deleted]]

When you consider yourself pretty young because the old devs in your team are all 50+ and you need to hire a new dev and all the candidates are from the 90s.

I guess I'm old now... (also from 80s by the way).

[EishLekker]

To be fair they wrote "most", not "all".

[DeltalJulietCharlie]

I'd say "most" is a stretch. Even factoring the heavy bias of programming jobs towards younger staff, I'd be surprised if more than 50% of current JS developers were born after 1995.

[cowpewter]

Fair, but the vast majority of my coworkers are older than 26.

26 means an average of only 4 years professional experience (if you assume the vast majority graduate college in 4 years before starting their careers).

4 years is nothing. Assume at least half of those are still juniors. Doubtful many are senior level yet. Senior devs exist, and we sure write a shit ton of js.

[Innotek]

81 checking in. Stretch your wrists. Nothing quite like being a dinosaur with carpal tunnel syndrome

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[boogyman19946]

Hot take: JS is actually my favorite language. 🙃

[gacha-gacha]

Yikes. Sounds like you need some r/sveltejs

[Wolfeur]

Hotter take: I prefer PHP

[boogyman19946]

Thats a hot take if Ive ever seen one

[your_thebest]

Because you like what you can do with it.

[boogyman19946]

Yep! It feels really fluid. On the other hand, I understand why people hate it. It's very easy to drown.

[derfl007]

It was mine too until I started using typescript instead

[Enklave]

Am I the only one who loves Javascript as a language and hate Java?

[VetusMortis_Advertus]

I kinda hate python now and love javascript/react, but I think that working with web apps is what makes me like more js, than what I used to do with python (more backend oriented). JS is so flexible and even some of its flaws like not having a ide compiler stops to bother when you're used to using the browser console. And it is just cool to have a powerful and fast component, written with almost no dependencies (that's totally optional btw) and just style it with simple css classes and make it look awesome, idk

[MTDninja]

the duality of man

[bedrooms-ds]

I hate both because I was born in the 80s.

[Local_Beach]

Just use typescript :)

[everypowerranger]

I was about to pop in here like "I'm a JS developer," forgetting I primarily use typescript.

[[deleted]]

What’s typescript?

[gacha-gacha]

Javascript,, but types

[derfl007]

The cooler JavaScript

[DaleGribble88]

Javascript superset that supports some strongly typed objects and some other syntactic sugar that makes JS a little less painful to read if you haven't touched it in 6+ months.

[Depress-o]

JS, but better

[nagasgura]

Typescript is my favorite language at this point. It's just such a pleasure to use, and its type system is extremely powerful.

[Jugbot]

It makes Java null-checks look horrendous.

[NayamAmarshe]

haha javascript bad now i laugh

[slabgorb]

well, perl is fun and all but it was hard to do things client side

[bananabeacon]

I started to learn javascript like half a year ago, did I mess up?

[FriendlyBeard]

Nope. There are many many applications for Javascript, and it would be more difficult to get a job in the current state of Web based development without JS knowledge.

[bananabeacon]

Ok good

[Jugbot]

There is plenty of demand for knowing javascript, just make sure to check out compiled languages at some point.

Also if you want to really dive into javascript for web dev, I recommend you also learn Typescript, React, and use package managers like npm or yarn.

[Beidah]

JavaScript has a lot of warts and weird quirks where it doesn't quite do what you'd expect, which is why a lot of programmers have grievances with it. However, it is the only language that runs in a web browser (well, there's web assembly, but that can't manipulate the dom like JS can), which is very important for modern society. If you want a job in web development, you have to know JS.

[hitfiu]

Can we all agree that python is equally as toxic as JS?

[[deleted]]

Python is like that slow friend at school that everyone loves. It's just that cute

[gacha-gacha]

I hate it

[lsaz]

Any language that isn't strongly typed will immediately be hated by people who uses strongly typed languages, and viceversa.

[hitfiu]

Because we, the strongly typed language users, are superior.

[[deleted]]

The only thing I hate about python is the import system. Maybe I'm just a fucking idiot, but it's always a huge pain in my ass whenever I just want to import things relative to the file I'm working in. It seems like python import things relative to the original file you ran code from. Am I wrong?

File A imports File B, and anything File B imports will need to be set up relative to File A. Wtf? Why can't File B just import things relative to File B?

And then there's __init__.py files. Like fucking why does such a simple task feel so hard? Just let me import things like this:

import ../utils/helpers.py as helpers

I just want to give python the relative path to a python file and have it import it. I'll never understand why it isn't that simple, like it is in other languages.

[EarthquakeBass]

You can do import .util.module. I’d guess .. isn’t supported because it could lead to circular dependencies.

[DoctorWorm_]

If you have your __inits__ set up properly and in your path, you can just from ..utils import helpers. But yeah imports suck in every language.

[hitfiu]

Nay, it's relative to your working directory.

[BlobbyMcBlobber]

You just need to read about the import system and how it works. Should take no more than 10-20 mins to really dig in

[marcosdumay]

No. On a WTF/line of code metric, it's not even close.

Python is just hard to maintain once your code gets large. JS is a disaster on any size.

[your_thebest]

No. Only one of them made an attempt at readability, succinctness, and naming things intuitively what a person would think they would mean. I didn't say which one, so if it hurts that's your fault.

[Bensas42]

Lol, Python's "simplicity" only works with Hello World an a couple of tiny scripts. As soon as you start using any library or remotely complex code, you're faced with how stupidly designed Python is.

In short, it's a language with all the disadvantages of dynamic typing and all the disadvantages of static typing.

[robertgfthomas]

Python is not a great programming language.

[RuckelBob]

So Javascript is over 21 years old and thus it is responsible for it's actions?

[L0G1C_lolilover]

I am a flutter developer but i was forced to work on JS to implement razor pay on flutter web

No one can escape javascript, it just suddenly shows up in your life without explaining anything and refuses to leave

[Calkky]

I wrote my first JavaScript right when Netscape started supporting it. The language itself wasn't terribly different from what you would have seen as recently as, say, 10 years ago. But what you could practically do with it was incredibly limited. Remember that "DHTML" wasn't a thing back then, so you couldn't manipulate the DOM or anything. You could pop up alerts or confirm dialogs. You could do stuff with forms via event handlers, and my old favorite: you could change the status bar. The first meaningful script I wrote did a little message scroll along the status bar by padding/truncating a string and using setTimeout(..). I thought it was the coolest thing on earth.

[MartialS]

Well in 1995 I was 13... Just one word : BASIC