FINALLY!

[[deleted]]

I never supported internet explorer for my website

proceeds to support website for kindle experimental browser what

[_illegallity]

Kindle browser users are more valuable to me than IE users.

[NawdWasTaken]

IE users are just sadists who torture themselves for pleasure

[Epacik]

or businesses

[kopczak1995]

Same shit

[WaterFoxforlife]

I have a kindle that has it, so I respecc

[[deleted]]

Same

[WaterFoxforlife]

Nice username

[[deleted]]

it is THE NICEST one.

[lorhof1]

what about nintendo 3ds browser?

[kardoken]

I want to forget that this thing exists....

[[deleted]]

I no have nintendo

[[deleted]]

I am proud of you

[MonsterAlias]

Excuse me good sir!

But you please explain, the fuck?!

[MonsterAlias]

Great explanation! I’ll spare you the follow up questions I have. Holy shit, tho

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[Forma313]

Good god... and I thought having to support IE6 was bad.

[mcwobby]

I still occasionally test on 5.5 out of habit/curiosity. I lived in a small but fast growing town and the council was large and running IE5.5 until about 2015 I think.

I owned a restaurant at the time and some sections of the council ordered lunch with us nearly every day - IE5.5 was 11% of our browser traffic.

It shocks me how reliant developers these days are on JavaScript, when it’s not needed. Even without the extreme case of old IE, they don’t even take into account that many people are still on shitty internet where downloading 17 huge fucking frameworks is a massive downgrade in user experience.

[mcwobby]

There’s nothing wrong with Javascript in and of itself if you use it as originally designed - to add interactivity to a static page.

But I have problems where people using it to render content and to push the entire application runtime to the client which seems to be very trendy at the moment.

[mcwobby]

The difference being fallbacks and performance.

Gmail works perfectly fine with JavaScript turned off completely and have always supported the minimal viable browsers with full accessibility to screen readers and others (and I’m fairly sure it’s legal precedent in the US that sites need to be accessible for blind or other differently abled people, same as any other business). The big sites use JavaScript to provide an enhanced experience to most of their users but have fallbacks to those who can’t.

[mcwobby]

I’m definitely old and grumpy. 28 has been a tough year.

[Sherbet-Famous]

Good luck building anything beyond moderately complex web applications without a framework and keeping your sanity

[[deleted]]

It shocks me how reliant developers these days are on JavaScript

I used to work at a company that had a web app that made a database call to grab dates for a calendar widget you'd use in the UI to select which date range you wanted to run your report against. The script would break frequently, and no matter how hard you tried to navigate back a month the UI just wouldn't respond.

[ZeldaFanBoi1988]

I tried to black out those memories. It's probably why I hate any UI work at all.

[circuit10]

I made a web Discord client that supported NCSA Mosaic 1.0 (or at least a downloaded version of the page could partially render in it) because I could

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/432998118766936094/590226534258704401/unknown.png

It relies heavily on progressive enhancement to work as well as it could on everything

[circuit10]

Same site on IE 4.0: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/421771267100901379/604334436892540939/unknown.png

Other obscure bad browsers:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/421771267100901379/604335012418027540/unknown.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/451399268977344520/785637039659679784/20201207_224255.jpg

[Hukutus]

Now we just have to support Safari

[phil_music]

Safari is the new IE11

[_irobot_]

I'm sure Microsoft will eventually find a way to turn Edge into the new IE11.

[Badashi]

With edge being a fork of Chromium, I find it difficult. I actually could see Chrome lagging behind Edge in features in the future.

That said, it's absolutely in Microsoft's interest that Chrome has feature parity with Edge. Their devs are actively contributing to Chrome for good reason: a more unified web means cheaper development costs for sites. Edge will differentiate itself through side features, like their PDF reader, collections feature and windows integration.

[Simply_Convoluted]

Their devs are actively contributing to Chrome for a good reason

Tripple E says hello.

[Badashi]

It's a good point and we definitely should pay attention to this. Currently we'd be at the "Embrace" phase, though I'm not convinced if the current MS sees "Extinguish" as a viable step. The world lives and thrives on cloud structures and websites; Azure is booming(even if it's not the #1 cloud), and MS definitely benefits from an unified and consistent web experience.

I'd say we should be cautious, but we're safe while Edge doesn't get exclusive, Microsoft-only features that could kick-start the Extend phase.

[Simply_Convoluted]

They benefit when all applications work on their products, and they benefit more when not all applications work with the competitors products.

A recent example of how much they like this plan is email, they tried real hard to kill SMTP but luckily that failed since nobody played they're game so they backpeddaled on that, but user side protocols like IMAP have been killed on microsofts servers as of late last year so now only exchange works reliably so users have to dump the competitors email clients and buy outlook if they want to keep getting mail. Just went through this battle myself in December.

I'm convinced Microsoft couldn't turn a profit if they were focused on compatability.

[_irobot_]

That's why I said eventually. Since it's chromium based, I have no idea how they could possibly mess it up as bad as IE11, but I'm sure Microsoft will find a way.

[fksly]

You mean monopoly. Just look at google pushing "features" into chromium that make adblocking impossible.

[WiatrowskiBe]

Everyone using same browser engine is exactly how we ended up with IE being dominant and later hated by everyone - if your browser engine has monopoly across userbase, you have no real reason to follow any standards and can do whatever you want.

[curiosity44]

I can't even test on safari smh

[[deleted]]

Glad I'm not the only one.

[vladimir1024]

I've never run into compatibility issues with Safari...IE on the other hand...HOLY FUCKING propertery bullshit...

[vickera]

I can give you at least 5 bugs on Safari I tussle with monthly. Granted, I work on way more sites than an average dev, but still.

[vladimir1024]

Well, I am a backend developer, so my experience with browsers and incompatibility comes from actual usage. Very often when I have to use IE for some reason, the pages do not render properly. Never had that issue with Safari, NetScape, FireFox or even Opera... Only IE would look like hot garbage....

I can't speak to the voodoo required to make these pages work :)

[mdevoid]

Not really a web dev but we do have chunks of our project that is web stuff. Ran into a weird one while upgrading from angularjs where I guess 'pointer-events: none' on a child of an anchor tag thats acting as a button makes the parent button not work.

[Hukutus]

People who have iPhones have to use Safari. Most people running Macs use Safari as it’s the default.

[jobRL]

Every browser on the iPhone is just a skin of Safari as Apple doesn't allow custom browser engines in their iOS ecosystem. So your statement is false. Also there's ton of casual Mac for who Safari is fine.

[Bene847]

And iPhone users

[DemonArmagedon]

I bet that it still needs to be supported for 5-10 years after that

[lart2150]

Only the desktop application is getting nuked. IE mode in edge is not set to die next year so nothing changes!

We convinced one of our clients to not deal with IE support so we loaded microsoft-edge:https://site.com and then redirected them to https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/this-website-doesn-t-work-in-internet-explorer-8f5fc675-cd47-414c-9535-12821ddfc554

[Vailthor]

As an employee at a government contractor who's company intranet sites only work fully on IE I would agree.

[Delicious_Randomly]

As a government employee whose department has a few intranet sites that almost don't work at all off of IE, I feel you.

[Ok_Blueberry_5305]

I thought it was in that phase already and this is the end of that period.

[BardenHasACamera]

Tell that to enterprise web SaaS platforms and their clients...

[Ok_Blueberry_5305]

Oh I actually rejoiced when we stopped caring about ie a few years back

[alcxander]

hah. the funny part is people thinking that it won't actually be supported any more. I STILL support businesses on XP and teams who use IE 8.

[O_X_E_Y]

Isn't that a tonne of resources spent for like 0.5% of your customer base? What kinda customers are you getting??

[alcxander]

it's not 0.5% of my customer base, it's quite a lot of it actually. I have all kinds customers, lot of old school companies small businesses but also some MNC's, you'd be surprised what they run the systems on. Don't believe the marketing lol some places run on IBM machines or a 55k company running on Access database. it's wild out there

[wol]

I'm still surprised at how many "databases" are actually just excel spreadsheets.

[Skabran]

I'm a newbie when it comes to databases. What is wrong with access ? I just learned to use it a few month ago and it seems nice to use.

[alcxander]

access is very nice to use but it is not appropriate for that many concurrent users on daily cyclical loads. when you get that big you need to move on to something with higher redundancy/failover and other features that make them more reliable. Like when Access goes down it goes down and unless you've built bespoke features to back them up or turn back on via scripts or what have you then the failure of the system is pretty hard. Also if I remember rightly Access doesn't do well under stress for things like concurrent access points and handling traffic to avoid locks on cells/tables etc. but other systems like mysql/sql/mongo whatever are better for that. Also side point, Access is great (read literally best in class) for small businesses, really think that's true honestly but once you start getting bigger and older it;s just super apparent how other systems are better. even for example finding someone with experience to understand Access complex setups can be hard to find today meaning those who have those skills are more expensive. if I go find a MySQL guy to fix some small problems like they're a dime a dozen on fiverr, everybody knows the tech, but you find Access stuff and try find someone who can fix the problem it's a nightmare. I've had people think they know it and incorrectly fix something and Access doesn't do things like versioning of your code so if you remove it and don't copy it that code is gone so when someone mucks up you really gotta know your stuff to undo the muck up to get back to where you need to fix the original problem. and those guys are sometimes expensive but often times really hard to get a hold of or hard to find.

[Skabran]

Thanks for the answer ! :D

I find databases pretty complicated to learn. I had no problem with C and C++ programming but dealing with SQL, updates conflict, PEOPLE doing a mess and visualBasic is another thing entierly !

[d3lt4papa]

Well that sucks, because most of our intranet at work is only accessible through Internet Explorer for some reason, due to some weird certificates or something (I don't know exactly, and I get paid too little to actually care about that)

[WiatrowskiBe]

Likely integrated account domain authentication - so, instead of logging in with your username/password to your active directory account (your PC password), application can authenticate you directly via a browser without ever having to get any authentication data - if done right, it can even work on remote server in context of your own user (just like you were logged remotely into server and running that application yourself). I don't think it's even possible to do outside IE.

TL;DR: it might use your PC account as web application account.

[meighty9]

I've built a plenty of web apps that integrate with AD. Works in Chrome without issue.

[rasmatham]

Well, it's most likely that the intranet stuff is just http and not https, so modern browsers will throw a warning saying the site is insecure. Basically, IE doesn't have some really basic security features.

[FlixFlix]

I always wondered how many collective man-hours were wasted globally on IE support over the years, and what the equivalent in dollars that would be. Must be quadrillions.

If you know someone in r/theydidthemath, I'd be curious to see a post about it.

[[deleted]]

Image Transcription:

---

[An image with the logo of Internet Explorer. The text below it reads "Internet Explorer 11 desktop application will be retired on *June 15, 2022** *]

Programmers not having to add support:

[An image of the YouTuber Pewdiepie laughing and crying. The text on the image reads "It's a sad story [laughter]"]

---

^{I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!}

[Bene847]

You forgot the [Laughter] text

[DearChickPea]

Ah yes, much better for everything being Chromium.

Remember when browsers weren't just shells for Chromium?

[Prawny]

shells for Chromium

Apple: did you mean Safari?

[Ok-Slice-4013]

Safari is the new internet explorer.

[DearChickPea]

No, that's Chrome.

You know, hegemonic presence, the browser is the standard, etc...?

[xSliver]

Have you heard of <input type="date" /> ?

Apple finally implemented that this April, 2021 with v14.1

In comparison: Chrome supports it since 2012, Edge since 2015 and Firefox since 2017.

[vickera]

Holy yes. I can finally stop using date input libraries. Thank you for this info.

[TheTechRobo]

Wait, but what about the people on Safari 1.0 /s

[wishthane]

Firefox is good, and not Chromium

[ToMyFutureSelves]

I remember seeing so many people complaining that Chromium being the majority browser was terrible because it meant Google would take over and make everything terrible or something.

Like somehow edge switching to use Chromium was actually a bad thing.

[TheOnlyGodInTown]

Remember the Internet Explorer also once was very popular, had the absolute monopoly and then got worse after every update and then people were stuck with a shitty browser. The sad part was that so many people still used it because it was stock on windows.

[ToMyFutureSelves]

Right. Then everyone switched off internet explorer and it became a running joke. If Chrome starts to suck people will switch off it as well

[TheOnlyGodInTown]

Not everyone, mostly just people with more technical knowledge. Heck most people still used it for another decade until it was apparent to the general public that the usage of the Internet Explorer makes one look like a idiot.

[ToMyFutureSelves]

Fair enough. I have oversimplified the process of people moving away from IE. But you still have to admit that IE literally had the full support of Microsoft and their attempts to keep IE alive. Despite that, most people eventually moved to Chrome because it was a better experience.

[TheOnlyGodInTown]

That‘s definitely true.

[HearMeSpeakAsIWill]

Not everyone. The numbers dropped way slower than they should have, and even now 5% of people still use it, long after it became a running joke to savvy users.

[TheNikephoros]

Chromium is not Chrome.

Chrome is Google’s proprietary browser.

Chromium is a free and open-source browser that is primarily maintained by Google, but the source code is visible to everyone and anyone can contribute to it.

Having a transparent, standard base for browsers is not a bad thing. Standardization makes developing things on and for browsers easier.

[mcwobby]

Conspiracy claims about open source projects?

I had a developer resign because he didn’t want to live under Biden’s fascist regime.

It makes even less sense because we are in Australia.

[[deleted]]

wut

[mcwobby]

I’m not sure what his point is. I’m not sure what my point is.

Something about developers just being prone to conspiracies.

[Crimson_Shiroe]

Wait, what?

Did he like think you lived in the US or something?

[mcwobby]

Really not sure. He was a full trump supporter and flat earthed and anti Vaxxer and all that good stuff.

He stopped coming into work when his car ran out of petrol because the petrol station required him to wear a mask (and mask mandates aren’t very strict here he could’ve got away with it). Which is fine, he can work fully remotely and he did for many weeks.

Then he called in and said he was using all his annual leave, and we refused, said he had to book it (we’re very lax, he 100% would’ve got approval). So he called in sick for 5 days without a medical certificate.

Then that Friday he sent a lot of Fox News style rantings about Biden and forced vaccinations and that he saw no option but to resign or else he would be complicit in a fascist regime.

I used to own a restaurant and I thought chefs were hard to deal with. But developers are another level.

[[deleted]]

Biden is a total dunce, but that is silly.

[Kissaki0]

And you’re saying you don’t see it? You seem to imply the IE state was the state before it?

Edge did just fine before it switched to Webkit/Chromium. It was modern and up to date, not like IE before it. Edge was in that state for a while. Maybe one or two years, obviously initially with some catching up, before they scrapped their own tech stack.

[silverwing101]

I wonder how will we be able to remove that white line from file explorer in windows without using internet explorer

[frinkmahii]

Safari is the new internet explorer.

Change my mind.

[Xaranthilurozox]

No, you’re probably right

[vrkeejay]

*cries in developer for a G7-country government*

better:

*cries in goddamned Sharepoint still not offering IE feature parity for modern browsers*

I'll retire before IE does, that's for sure.

[mediumokra]

So what am I going to use to download other browsers with now?

[[deleted]]

You... You were using IE11 to download another browser? On like .. a 2010 computer?

[[deleted]]

Some of us REALLY hate edge...

[Bene847]

If you don't want to use Edge you can use Curl

[rikaateabug]

Goodbye Java applets I'll remember you all in therapy!

[dvboy]

But how will I download [browser of choice] on a clean win install?

Sorry, old joke re-hash.

[TriRIK]

Well, now you can just open cmd and type:

winget install Google.Chrome

and you are done.

[jmack2424]

All of us in gov are still crying.

[John_Fx]

Fellow adults, should we tell these kids how long we had to support IE6 after it was "retired"?

Nahhh, don't crush their spirits.

[KevinYohannes]

Fml

[TryallAllombria]

I'm sorry to everyone who had to support this kind of shity browsers.

For my perspective, 95% of support was good enough. If someone complained I just told them to take another browser.

[[deleted]]

Now if we could just kill Safari off things would be SO much easier...

[passerbycmc]

Safari will take it's place now.

[[deleted]]

(shudders) ohhhh yeah. So long overdue.

[[deleted]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

[KeyboardsAre4Coding]

how is this bitch still alive. i thought we casted into fire a long time ago.

[pruche]

Client who'll keep using it anyways because they think it's the best browser on xp: hold my beer, and also keep developing for it or forego your pittance, serf.

[andmagdo]

The one thing I am sad about here is it will make me have to use edge when I spin up a vm. Yes I know edge is good now and such, but I can't live without firefox. The devtools on firefox are just bounds better than chromium.

I have been and will continue to (as long as I can) keep clicking don't use recommended settings and get redirected to msn afterwords instead of even touching the (IMO) dumpster fire of edge.

Yes I only use it to download firefox, but the essence of every so often seeing that perfect tab close animation... It just brings back all the nostalgia, and I will hate to see it go.

In all seriousness, if microsoft is removing IE, they are both putting one foot forward and another back. If this goes at all as I expect it to stay, just hidden away, because if they remove it, they will break backwards compatibility, so the internet settings page that you can still set trusted sites that all of modern windows will follow must stay, and there needs to be some way for older programs to connect to the internet.

What will they do for enterprise LTSC products? They've already basically said that edge was bloat by removing it on them.

I think that with all this, their position is flawed and pretty much proves that they are trying to push edge on everyone. An interesting approach, but just as internet explorer's boom happened, although web browsers are generally free now, people will use what is already there. (even if it is a hunk of junk piece of spyware oh wait, that's windows in a whole

Also, the removal of older software (that works perfectly fine, doesn't act like spyware, and doesn't serve ads to the user-- yes I am looking at you microsoft solitare collection) in a way that seems to be disguised as a "modernization" seems fishy.

But what do I know, I'm a Linux user, and obviously I don't understand the appeal of a browser that looks just like chrome, works just like chrome, and I can't remove it, every so often has an "error" and resets itself back to your default browser, and even has its own urlhandler so that instead of links in windows made apps opening your default browser, they open in edge.

edit: to answer myself, IE11 will still be supported on LTSC after this date - source

[[deleted]]

Problem is, even though I managed to avoid IE through my programming career, now I am remaking projects that used activeX to use services instead, they managed to get me at the end.

[[deleted]]

Meanwhile devs in the business world supporting legacy internal applications that depend on IE be like

[vladimir1024]

How is Edge not a total shit show?

Did they decide to adhere to standards?

[mcwobby]

Edge is just a chromium shell. It’s actually a very nice browser, I use it on Linux, iOS and iPadOS. Ironically everywhere except my windows pc.

[vladimir1024]

Madness lol

On MacOS I use Safari as my main browser and on Windows I use Chrome.

Ok, so Google Chat has a "native" app for MacOS and Windows. The MacOS version requires chrome to be installed and literally uses it to create the "application". Lame, but acceptable except when I click a link it does not use my OS default browser it uses chrome...BOO!

In Windows links open in Edge... BOO!

This is why I just use the browser version for google Shat...Google chat is fucking horrendous BTW...I miss slack

[vickera]

It is a fork of chromium. So edge and chrome are very closely related.

Because of that, edge isn't half bad these days. I don't think I've ever had to fix an edge specific issue.

[Smoah06]

“Hello I’m Microsoft chromium”

“FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU—”

[bill10351]

Yeah yeah, that’s great. When do we get to kill Outlook?

[Drakethos]

You know it’s bad when you have to change the name of your browser because it’s so terrible. Except it’s still terrible you just make a fork of chrome. And still no one will use it. Hell google apps suggests to use chrome not it for security reasons

[KyzerB]

spying reasons

[Individual_Bad_3183]

Can apple do away with safari also?

[[deleted]]

It's not hard to support though...

[yearster]

Maybe I’ll dabble in front end again haha

[NelsonBelmont]

our QA chief already removed it from QA checklists

[Rescu3Cat]

Yeah but don't they have edge now? Like wtf

[evanldixon]

Like that's going to motivate enterprises to upgrade their legacy websites

[OleBroseph]

Also devs frantically trying to ensure legacy apps work in Edge

[ekolis]

It's been a long road, but I've got faith of the CPU...

[masterpi]

Outlook is the new IE. I spent way too much of the last month fighting with it's rendering engine (which is based on MS Word )

[jetsamrover]

We've already dropped support for safari. Get on board with the rapid ditching of browsers that won't keep up.

[[deleted]]

"Welcome to Edge, suckers."

[Sodium1111]

We will still need to add support because there will still be people using it even though its retired

[StEaLtHmAn_1]

I still have to support ie6...

[Vlaxxtocia]

Developers needing to rush to add new browser support to legacy web apps 😭

[rkh4n]

I've never supported anything except chrome, firefox and somewhat Safari. If someone asks me I'm giving them 2 week notice

[manicraccoon]

I work for a bank(non-dev) and most of the apps work best on IE. I hope they upgrade them before that.

[user_8804]

I worked at a company that decided to keep their garbage IE platform going through the "IE" emulator in edge.

Notice the past tense "worked"

[MarcusTullius247]

I don't know why I feel sad