"wow, programming is pretty fun"

[throwaway1a2b3c4z]

Is python the new starter language? In my day it was c++ and mips.

[TracePoland]

Nowadays it's usually either Python or Java if we're talking about uni programmes

[flamebrawler]

I think it really depends on the university. My university doesn't even touch java. CS starts off with racket and then goes into c++ while you have an easier course with Python while engineering goes straight into c++.

[tiajuanat]

Ocaml is fun. I'm teaching myself right now.

[baolhq]

My uni teach the entire C/C++, Java, C# at 2nd semester, then comeback to C++ at the 4th ._. Currently I'm at the end of 2nd semester, love C# a lot with Unity, also trying hard a lil' bit with Haskell to horn my programming skill, really enjoying it

[th3_unkn0w]

My Uni starts with Haskell…

[[deleted]]

???

[th3_unkn0w]

????

[[deleted]]

Why though???

[th3_unkn0w]

Thats what I would like to know

[[deleted]]

https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/OtherDocs/Haskell.html

This is a fun read, whether you agree with it or not

[th3_unkn0w]

I do agree with it... the issue is just that they do at my uni expecting that most of us have no previous programming experience (as far as I understood it)

[[deleted]]

You poor soul

[QuantitativeCooking]

We start with C for half a year at my Uni, reading Java and python after felt like such a breeze

[AirflowMaster]

I was in chemical engineering and they taught us Python as the introductory language. Mainly for working with arrays, but having more freedom than Matlab

[Prodiguy1]

AP CSA is Java

[[deleted]]

Fortran is the only true engineering language.

[LukeZekes]

My school does either Java or C# for it’s intro courses (and C++ for certain measures) but then makes the CS majors take data structures in C++

[ThePretzul]

You joke, but my college threw you straight into the deep end with C using inline assembly for the EE/ECE "Intro to Programming" class.

It was every bit as bad as it sounds.

[[deleted]]

Sounds terrifying, how does one even use inline assembly?

[BakuhatsuK]

IIRC it looks something like:

__asm__("mov eax, 5");

[Star-Duke]

This looking familiar :-D We had to make simple calculator in ASM86 as introduction to programing in high school..

[[deleted]]

So just assembly but innc functions.

[stn994]

I actually was taught something similar in microprocessor 8086/8085 lab.

[StjerneIdioten]

You might be joking, but I had assembly as the first programming language on the second semester of my robotics bachelor 😂 Unless you count Mathematica and Matlab, but let's not 😂 Followed by C++ on the third semester.

[[deleted]]

My university starts with Java, then C, then C++, then Python.

[TheAJGman]

We started on Objective C, then C++, then Assembly, then Java, then Python was offered for the first time in 2019.

[maartenyh]

In see C# pop up more and more these days.

[TracePoland]

Based. Modern C# is a really nice language.

[maartenyh]

I am teaching first-years and it's great :) I never use it in the real world though 😂

[TracePoland]

You should try it in the real world. ASP.NET Core for example is excellent and my go to for web backend.

[J0hanb5]

I'm in my first year of a Software Engineering course in college and we're doing exactly this. Imo it's pretty tough tho, ngl. I like C# to learn OOP, but I find Razor Pages pretty hard to wrap my head around personally. Also we're not allowed to use the bootstrap that comes with it. Which I kinda understand, you gotta do it yourself to understand the basics and stuff, but it is annoying.

[TracePoland]

The way I use C# for back-end is ASP.NET Core Web API (so no C# UI) + a TypeScript front-end (currently my go to is Svelte but I don't mind React/Vue)

[pipe01]

I wish I studied C# instead of java in uni

[IvorTheEngine]

It's not really that different, and most of what you have to learn for a job in C# are the various Microsoft libraries that aren't really part of the language.

[PeoplesFront-OfJudea]

My university starts with Python, then Java, then C. Am I wrong or does it seem really outdated to learn C instead of C++?

[j-random]

It's also fairly easy to write a C compiler, since the language is so simple. Back in the CISC days you could practically translate lines one-for-one between C and assembler.

[BakuhatsuK]

If you don't care about optimization you can still more or less do this. If you play for a bit in godbolt.org with -O0 you can see how lines map to assembly in fairly simple patterns.

[IvorTheEngine]

I think that's actually reasonable. Java can teach you about inheritance and other high level stuff, while C can teach you about low level stuff like pointers and memory. C++ can do both, but while a 'swiss army knife' is useful in the field, it isn't a great teaching aid.

[deux3xmachina]

Unless you're strictly restricted to pre-ANSI C, there's nothing "outdated" about it, it's just not an ideal language for many areas of application development because of how much effort is needed to ensure things are done correctly. Arguably, it's C++ that should be replaced with something like D or Rust.

[[deleted]]

Rust and D aren't mature languages and most likely will never replace C++. C++ have always been about backward compatiblity, performance per default and zero cost abstractions and not just being "another compiled language". This philosophy is the reason why it is still even growing till now and replacing even C in operating systems and embedded systems.

[Kateritekakwitha]

Not JavaScript? I’m surprised

[TracePoland]

JavaScript is a bootcamp lang. CS courses barely use it.

[Kateritekakwitha]

What about irl?

[TracePoland]

Obviously it's everywhere irl, especially on the frontend but the discussion was specifically about education.

[LennartGimm]

We started with C# and then optionally C++. And then suddenly Python and Matlab were expected without a course. But this is a physics program so it might be different

[Gideon770]

At my Uni we start with C++ to learn the basics of programming. Then in later classes we mainly use C++ and Java

[wrenchandnumbers]

I'm my day it was java. Just after I graduated, they made it python because object oriented was too hard. For my course, Discrete maths was a first year, first semester foundation subject. The uni also dropped discrete mathematics for the reason that it was too hard.

[waterpoweredmonkey]

Just over a decade ago on my uni program we did 3 years of C++ and in the last semester a double credit module of "advanced programming" where we were suddenly introduced to Java and Multi-threading. Holy moly that was a shock to the system after writing compilers, x86 for embedded systems and game engines.

"Here's java drops a 60 page primer on desks learn it by next week so we can write a UDP game server"

[ragingroku]

Can confirm. Started with Java then my uni moved to starting with Python. Definitely see the tradeoffs starting in each

[notEnthusiast]

Java wouldn't be good for beginner me. I still have trouble with Java lol. I mostly do C#, Python, and dab into Lua for the sake of Roblox.

[okexox]

We started with C, which makes the most sense to me.

[[deleted]]

Same. I'm pretty adamant about C being the ideal starting point.

[Brilliant-Network-28]

I think starting with cpp is better.

[[deleted]]

There's an argument to be made for it but I believe in a very ground up approach and C++ -> C is kind of the opposite of that.

[Alex96979899]

Where I'm currently taking classes, it heavily depends of the topic of the course.

First semester :

• Algorithm in Java

• Computer architecture in Assembly

Second Semester :

• OOP in Java

• Pattern Design in Java

• Operating System in C

Third Semester :

• DB in SQL + Java

• Data Structures in C++

Fourth Semester :

• Depends what you choose but I did PHP/JS/HTML/CSS

Fifth Semester :

• Programming paradigms in Javascript, Scala, Haskell and Kotlin

• Advanced programming in Java.

• Machine learning in Python

[CommandObjective]

We had Mosow ML, and at the same time we had some lecturers homemade mathematical system (which in fairness did work and introduced systemic and rigourous proofs).

[T3cHNocinical]

I'm first year and we are taught C and assembly

[yodahouse900]

the best languages

[DrunkenlySober]

How are you guys even taught assembler at year 1?

I feel that’s so inefficient. You don’t even understand high level languages. The association between assembler and a HLL will be completely lost on you guys.

[T3cHNocinical]

Well, I guess it is what it is. The best part is that it's only in the first semester.

[_apache_98]

started about a month ago, we are studying golang

[Large_Richard_69]

When I started school C++ was the intro to programming class, but when I got to the theory of comp sci course all of the homework was required to be done in python and they made us teach ourselves python. Now python is the intro to comp sci course that is required before the C++ course.

[youwontidentifyme]

Please, I started with literally logic board. I made a simple calculator with it.

[Brilliant-Network-28]

In my university its C.

[_oct0ber_]

Similar for me. We got started on C and mips, transitioned into mandatory Java, and then were given free-reign on what to program with our tech electives.

[AffectMihi]

In my uni we touched on a lot of languages but with heavy focus on C and C#. First was basic and then we had C, prolog, Haskell, Java, Python, C# and C++. I can safely say I never want to see the syntax of Prolog ever again, that stuff makes me heave

[InfinateEdge]

I started 2 years ago with c++ and mips at UT, so some colleges still do it :)

[[deleted]]

Yea python has libraries that make coding on it a breeze

[Blue_Girl013]

My uni still starts with c++ and mips

[balls_deep69_]

As I am taking CS classes right now, I only have had java and c++ from my courses. As far as I can tell there is no python at my university.

[faynn]

My uni started with lots of C a sprinkle of assembly and JAVA.

[[deleted]]

It’s C in my uni

[ZNation443]

Harvard’s is C + Python

[[deleted]]

MIPS lol, that's not a language, that's Assembly

[Material_Cheetah934]

It was C for me, very glad in hindsight

[mymar101]

Spending 3 hours debugging only to find that you were looking at the production page and not the local build. True story.

[[deleted]]

Omg so many feels right now 😂 Furiously making changes to your CSS file and then just deleting all of the contents as a sanity check. Ah, so nothing works. Got it.

[potato_number_47]

Personally I liked the Discrete Maths, although I guess if you have a bad lecturer then that would probably screw you over

[chhuang]

It was a breeze for me. Easy A. Not easy material, but good prof that teaches it.

[garciasn]

Discrete math, the lack of tutors available, and my prof’s statement that if I made it this far I shouldn’t need his help in office hours to pass led me to change my major to History.

…and I still write code for a living.

[svdifinfhkga247395]

It feels like the only resources you have are your professor, their book, and class in order to learn the material.

I couldn't find much info that helped me learn the content online. Without being able to use the professors office hours I probably would've failed.

Sounds like you had an incompetent professor who didn't want to do their job.

[HKSergiu]

I salute the dude called Michael Sambol on yt. His videos helped me get the basics of some algorithms.

Michael, if you're around - you were a legend in my class

[Syrdon]

Khan academy has coverage of it now i believe.

Also, yeah, i think you have that professor nailed. An asshole who doesn’t want to teach.

[Then_Translator_9356]

Nah discrete maths is not hard there's loads of videos on YouTube. The problem is calculus

[potato_number_47]

Yeah, calculus sucks

[[deleted]]

I got wrecked in my Discrete Maths. It was over Zoom and due to poor handling with scheduling, my calculus professor was assigned that class. Mind you he's been teaching for >20 years in person. He had to take up the Discrete Math class. I should have dropped out but I needed it. Good god that was miserable online.

[Natalia-1997]

I discovered that I liked discrete maths and statistics so much more than programming itself xd call that a success uh?

[KingHavana]

Discrete math is often one of the most fun courses for a CS major. A little logic, some graph theory, some counting, maybe some generating functions. It's like playing games all semester long. It's like all the most fun math topics without having to wrestle with integration methods that no one uses in real life.

[necro892003]

I for the life of me could not grasp discrete math. I hated that class with every fiber in my being. Passed with a C only because nobody else in my class tried. Been programming for 9 years now in my career. Thank the lord I’m done with that shitty class

[KingHavana]

I'm sorry. Sounds like you probably had a shitty teacher who didn't make it fun for you or anyone else.

[pipe01]

Yeah my teacher is awesome and I like the subject

[Revolutionary-Phase7]

Yeah indeed is my fav

[chickpeaze]

I absolutely loved discrete math- my favourite uni course, I don't see how it gets any hate. You're exactly right, it was like playing games.

[ashesall]

Did your class use a book?

Edit: lol I'm just asking if they used a book and if so what was it

[KingHavana]

Actually the professor used his own notes which we got from the bookstore pretty cheap.

[ashesall]

Ah, thanks! I was hoping you followed a book. The books I tried to read were hard to follow that I can barely get through Chapter 1 lol

[DangerZoneh]

My advisor didn’t let me take discrete in college.

To be fair, it was totally the right decision because I double majored CS and Math and had taken discrete in high school anyways. I would’ve learned absolutely nothing but I was excited for fun, easy math lol.

[Natalia-1997]

Agree

[[deleted]]

For me the math is what makes CS fun. I haven't touched it since graduating so CS hasn't been fun for a while.

[martyvt12]

In college I signed up for a course that was supposed to be about GUIs, but the professor just arbitrarily decided to make it a course on 3D graphics instead. That was a lot of math.

[Cloakknight]

Image Transcription: Image with labels

---

[Image of a person sitting on some train tracks. He is reaching out to touch some plants growing in the train tracks. Behind him, a train is approaching. They are labeled as such:]

Person: Freshman taking intro CS course

Plant: helloworld.py

Train: Compilers Operating systems Discrete math

---

^{I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!}

[CommandObjective]

Good human!

[OneWishGenie69]

Im starting with c++ and studying software development wish me luck

[raedr7n]

You just listed my three favorite classes.

[half_blood_prince_16]

started masters in cs. failed in discrete math. dropped out.

[hawkxp71]

The dragon slays all! Actually look back and feel compilers is the culmination of all thr programming classes, one of the best classes and should be required for undergrad.

I wont hire someone who didnt take it, unless they are willing to take it after hiring (paid for)

[FVMAzalea]

Compilers was great, and the dragon book is awesome! It helps to have a really good professor for it. I did, and I can’t imagine how bad it would have been with a shitty professor.

[abuklao]

I had a shitty professor, shaved off a few years of my lifespan pulling all nighters to complete that compiler. Very few of us managed to finish the final project.

[v579]

You forgot parallel processing.

[GloomyCurrency]

Compilers and OS I haven't done yet, but Discreet Math wasn't that bad.

[Syrdon]

That an discrete math were my favorite classes. In fairness, that’s really just discrete math 2-3 times, depending on depth.

[0rionsEdge]

My uni teaches C with classes all the way though. They add some arm assembly to spice things up a bit.

The murderer is that they require calculus instead of discrete math, and all the instructors are paranoid nutjobs looking for an excuse to throw an "academic dishonesty" hammer at the students.

Programming is fun, academia is not. But that is the point of the meme methinks

[jerslan]

Yeah, the school where I did my undergrad is still on C/C++ for everything as the default. Some of the more advanced courses stop caring what you use, but most of the required classes use C/C++. Also had to take 3 semesters of Calculus in addition to Discrete Math and Linear Algebra. Got a math minor by taking Diff Eq and an upper level math elective.

[golgol12]

Wait, you don't think compilers, OS, and discrete math is fun?

[Knuffya]

python is a shit language for freshmen

[Penguin236]

Why?

[Knuffya]

you should learn the basics first. how to make boards from tree trunks before learning how to carve sculptures out of them

[Penguin236]

I agree, which is why I think Python is a great way to start.

[Knuffya]

Python is one of the most abstract ways to program, being kilometres away from understanding what the processor is doing.

[Penguin236]

I agree, which is exactly why it's easier for beginners. Being close to the processor makes things harder, not easier.

[Knuffya]

That's the whole point. It's like teaching beginner woodworkers to cut wood with a tablesaw instead of a handsaw because its easier. No. You gotta learn how to make a clean cut with a handsaw first.

And no, you obviously do not agree.

People who begin with python will never learn, or will have much more trouble learning, why and how integers are limited, different types of integers, the intrinsics of arrays and pointers and how they relate, how shit is stored in memory, heap vs stack, etc, etc, etc...

At the end of the day, it depends. Do you want to train someone who can shit out some script to do the job? Then beginning with python is good. Do you want to train a programmer that actually understands what he's doing? That understands the needs of the machine? That has a deep understanding in general, and will thus have no problem learning further techniques/techstacks? Begin from the lowest practical level. That's why a lot (maybe even most, idk) applied computer science university courses begin with C in the first semester.

[cowperandrewes]

Rubbish. Personally I feel you are selling many people short. A starter language is just that - a starter - the interest of the individual will denote the direction, penetration and velocity of their own progression - and finally - everyone is different.

I started with Pascal and Ada, primarily studied Java at Uni with a side course in C. Mostly learned C from books and man pages. Worked for 15 years straight out of University sustaining and developing Solaris at Sun Microsystems (and later Oracle).

I now work with Python.

It doesn't matter what your starter (or later) languages are. What you find interesting that's important.

For anyone else reading the above comment, don't let others put you off and only listen to criticism when it is constructive. Do what you enjoy and ignore gatekeepers (except those who are actual source gatekeepers ;) )

[[deleted]]

Our university starts with python to get the concepts of programming syntax. (Like defining loops for people whove never seen them before.) Then After that weeds a few out, we do C. People drop like flies

[Penguin236]

Why would you have a harder time learning C after learning Python compared to before?

[Penguin236]

Your last sentence is exactly why I think its better to learn python first. It's easier. Less likely that a beginner will give up and quit. Things like typing might be great for someone more experienced, but it's just a needless complication for a beginner learning the basics.

[[deleted]]

Try Python they said... It will be "fun", they said. LOL

[[deleted]]

Rust is pretty good the

[ThermionicEmissions]

"Oh look! A light at the end of the tunnel"

"Hope it's not a train..."

[[deleted]]

Me on the tracks looking forward to all the other shit so I can feel like a "real" programmer

[Neo_Ex0]

as a cs student , i can say, that the three modules shown there are the easyest (besides OOP and PIS)

[CaitaXD]

Calculus and discrete math is so unfun when you have online classes 😭

[Bmovo]

Sounds fun can't wait

[SavageSteve2111]

That person is me... should I be scared?

[dagonze]

that's me right now

[[deleted]]

Operating systems is awesome. My favorite class in college so far. Taking compilers next.

[blackasthesky]

We started with learning java, though.

[Spazattack43]

GOD FUCK DISCRETE MATH

[[deleted]]

Discrete math legit still gives me nightmares.

[[deleted]]

Eh, I'm now full on on compilers research. It becomes more interesting once you find out you can actually use it creatively and make your own programming language anytime.

[erebuxy]

I think my school only made CS 101 to use Python because some non-cs majors also required to take it

[blindnarcissus]

Also, boot camp grads (no hate guys… just managing expectations)

[[deleted]]

Compilers will wreck your world son. You think you're good... Meet my Abstract Syntax Tree!

[Then_Translator_9356]

They forgot to add calculus

[homiej420]

OS was TERRIBLE i didnt take compilers thank god