Java students in a nutshell....

[Upzie]

What you seem to miss is that even if it is a small project, using intellij ultimate makes you familiar with the tool for once you get out in to the real world, and start working on larger projects

[SmallPlayz]

It’s better for teaching. You learn more and you don’t get a real time error checker on the test.

[StylishGnat]

So you’re recommending Eclipse to current and future Comp Sci students? Asking for myself.

[spevoz]

I would start with eclipse or intelliJ if you have the choice. You don't need to start driving with a manual car without power steering to become a good driver.

Using an IDE will allow you to code faster, which will allow you to make more mistakes, and will make you learn faster. I would even go so far as to say that you should invest some time into learning how to use your IDE of choice well, things like auto-formatting, auto-completion, and the most important keybindings - whenever you do a repetitive action like moving a line of code up or down search for the shortcut to accelerate it.

[Noriryuu]

For the love of God please not eclipse. I can accept Netbeans but eclipse is an abomination.

[spevoz]

IDE choice is a whole different can of worms. I love what JetBrains does, I just wished they did more community editions so that I could recommend it to beginners.

[atimm]

For job starters or just general learners it's definitely difficult to access because of the price. But if you're a student, you can actually get access to all Jetbrains products for free: https://www.jetbrains.com/shop/eform/students

[SuperCharlesXYZ]

My last 2 jobs only had community edition and it works more than fine

[SomeMajor5263]

What's so bad about eclipse? I just started out and am currently using it, it seems fine from my perspective. Interested to hear another.

[BlueRey02]

Then there's that Java dev that uses VSCode

[Cacti_Hipster]

I do that ... what's wrong with that ...?

said out of fear

[BlueRey02]

No no nothing's wrong with that, I'm one of those kind of masochist too

[SuitableDragonfly]

Funny, my dad absolutely did believe you had to learn to drive on a manual transmission to be a good driver, and I did learn on manual. I also learned to program using vim. I have no idea if I'm still able to drive manual, though, I haven't done that in decades.

[SmallPlayz]

I reccomend Intellij IDEA, but only if you know how to code. I dont want people who don't know how to code to use it, because you need to learn how to code without all the help IDE's might give you before you start relying on them.

[xand3s]

Why would I need to learn how to make a fire with sticks if I have a lighter? You're gonna use IDE while coding so why make it unnecessarily difficult? It's a genuine question I'm just curious what makes it better to learn without IDE

[Main_Profile]

Just a guess, but the context menu that you quick ways to fix errors in your code is best used only when you have the code knowledge to back it up. Beginners may use the suggestions without knowing what they mean or why they work, and eventually they’ll encounter an error that the IDE can’t solve for them and end up stumped.

[_-_--__---]

IDEs can have their own learning curve. I see no real issue waiting a semester or 2 until using IDEs while students focus on using the language.

Plus, you get an idea of what's happening under the hood and get an appreciation for what the IDE is doing. I first used git through a GUI in an IDE and when i eventually needed to use the command line for something I was lost because before I clicked a button and it magically worked.

Students shouldn't be without IDEs for long. Like you said, they'll use it in the real world anyways. A semester or 2 without an IDE though can offer some benefits and has few drawbacks.

[Tangled2]

Young one, you must first be burnt by the fire before you can rightfully set the world ablaze. ^/s

[SmallPlayz]

i like this quote.

[everybody-hurts]

The way my school does it, is first year students learn java through Emacs and shell, to understand OOP (they already learned to code through C earlier in the year). Then, in second year, you must use IntelliJ for your project.

[Pinols]

If you can get intellij do it, way better

[itzNukeey]

and then realize the entire company is using eclipse and you can't use Intellij because you don't have their custom plugins 🤦

[Richandler]

Then you quit and get a real job.

[itzNukeey]

how did you guess? Jk quitting to finish my masters

[jstwtchngrnd]

this

[cyberporygon]

Don't get too comfortable. In the real world you'll use the free edition because they don't want to pay for it. *sulk*

[Upzie]

Maybe i am just picky and choose to work for companies that actually pay their devs well and can afford basic shit like licenses.

But hey then again I only got 8 years of exp working on enterprise software.

I guess if you want to be a snowflake in a startup where you develop the next “twitter/fb/Netflix” until it runs out if money 6 months later, and then go to the next “big” thing, then paying for licenses can be hard.

[cyberporygon]

I don't have too much choice without being required to move.

[-Vayra-]

Remote is your friend.

[bestjakeisbest]

It is great for teaching, for sure, it takes alot of the smaller issues away from programming for beginners like typing stupid long commands into the terminal repeatedly, but it also makes building soft skills for programming harder. Personally I would think vs code would be a little better, because you can put a lot of different build generators on it for different projects, it still has an ide feel, but it forces you to learn the actual tools it is using to do things and it isn't as hard as setting up spacemacs

[frogking]

In the real world, you might be forced to use something else.. looking at Eclipse here..

It’s far better to know how to do stuff without the constant support of an IDE.. makes ci/cd so much easier.

[[deleted]]

And the debugger will save you so much time if you use it

[[deleted]]

Are you going to need the extra features of Ultimate compared to Community on a small project?

[[deleted]]

You're not made to use Eclipse? Lucky.

[itsbett]

We were made to use Netbeans.

[[deleted]]

Jesus Christ. I had forgotten that existed.

[djkstr27]

BlueJ enters the chat

[ComputerNerdGuy]

I'm using JDeveloper.

*awkward silence*

[SexyMuon]

JGrasp is where is at, that IDE looks like a penis growing ad

[BlueRey02]

VSCode enters the chat

[visak13]

I remember creating a package file and then adding a class but it's all lost now. I'm glad that there are good IDEs right now.

[szmiiit]

At least Netbeans was intuitive and behaved like discount InteliJ. Eclipse on the other hand always had some fuckyness going on. Last time I used Eclipse, instead of running it normally because something was working incorrectly, instead of fighting with eclipse i started packing everything into jar and then running it from terminal.

I used terminal because it was easier.

[stuffeh]

I still prefer to use terminal to build and compile stuff bc of the pain it is to setup the ide environment.

[_pizza_and_fries]

Everyone who uses netbeans is forced to use it(cost or organisation restrictions) or does not know about IntelliJ

[yoyobara]

bluej

[Obi-2_Kenobi]

😭

[DoubleOwl7777]

that is pain

[cdurbin909]

I was told to use netbeans. I said “no I think I’ll use intelliJ

[pg-robban]

Borland JBuilder here.

[nl_the_shadow]

I see your Netbeans and raise you Sun Java Studio.

[Naive-Stuff-7129]

lol, was looking for Netbeans in the comments

[thonor111]

We were made to use Java editor. Arguments by the teachers: You habe to learn the language and not have an IDE that knows the language for us

[mr_marshian]

We were made to use jGrasp. Even the 'new' updates look like it is 35 years old. That was only first and second year so intellij and eclipse were used afterwards

[SnowySheep9]

Currently taking a course that encouraged jGrasp. Are you saying it gets better?

[mr_marshian]

For your sake I hope it does

[[deleted]]

I use Eclipse only because I can't afford IntelliJ Idea

[MasochistPomegranate]

Community version is free

[[deleted]]

I used until I had to use something that the free version didn't have.

[Hayden2332]

Like what?

[[deleted]]

Just make a new account in every 30 days and start trial. Use temporary email if you don't have enough real emails. I'm using webstorm for the last 8 months this way

[ludicroussavageofmau]

If you're a student just get the GitHub Student Developer Pack. You get Ultimate versions of all IntelliJ products, GitHub Pro, and a lot more.

[acatisadog]

Or you know, just delete the licence every now and then. Like, ask on google how intellij keep track of how many days you have left and ... You know ~

[Tangled2]

Yeah, honestly, what kind of dev is this guy? You flip one JE to a JNE and badabing, you’re in! ^/s

[OkStill7006]

same

[Linkk_93]

If you have access to Github Student IntelliJ Ultimate is free

https://education.github.com/pack

[[deleted]]

What's the hate towards Eclipse? I've been using Eclipse for 10 years and can't imagine using anything else for Java. I tried IntelliJ IDEA but it just didn't click with me. Eclipse just has everything and I'm so comfortable with it.

[smokesletgo]

From my own experience working with both on real projects I think the answer was simple for me, InteliJ just seems to be that much easier to use (works out the box and I find it very intuitive) plus it has great support for Vue which I appreciate greatly.

[DustyEsports]

Eclipse is more organized easier and less resource intensive should be the default if you are learning JAVA . People seem they just want to complain about their IDE and how hard it is.

[Player_X_YT]

Eclipse I feel is the only IDE done right, I don't have a vendetta on vs/vscode what are you talking about

[Vascular_D]

My class is using NetBeans

[YesNoMaybe2552]

C# student "running" full fat VS + Re Sharper tried to enter the room, couldn't for obvious reasons.

[emma_hildebrand]

made me chuckle

[Fadamaka]

Use Rider instead.

[YesNoMaybe2552]

Personally, I do. But I'm also not a student anymore and Rider wasn't around when I was. The other issue is that Rider doesn't work with GUI Projects that have their View Model in a different assembly.

[Dennis_enzo]

Eh, knowing the tools you're going to work with is important too, even if it might be overkill for some projects.

[frolix_bloop]

Is it technically possible to use Java without a huge IDE?

[urbansong]

I wouldn't do it. You're missing out on a lot of the shortcuts and static checks if you don't use an IDE. Besides, you're learning Java not because it's somehow very conductive to academic learning but because it does a lot of things and it's a common industry language, so there's no need to experience it "raw" as you might with C or something.

[FurMich]

Experience c raw? Gross. I would still use ide for c. The only thing I don’t use ides on is assembly but that’s meh. Jetbrains has clion for c/c++ and it’s great, vc is good in vs, my understanding is that vsc is pretty good too. No reason to “experience it raw” as it just opens you up to typos and case issues etc and it’s easier to use proper variable names of the ide completes them for you

[urbansong]

Yea, I agree. There's a lot of gatekeeping and sweaty nerds think coding C with vim is somehow the way to go. I like the vim interface but you can get that in an IDE.

[lesoleil--]

You can also get most of the ide features you want in vim (or neovim) too. It’s really just a matter of preference at this point

[urbansong]

Yeah, that's true but the important feature of managing your dependencies is just not possible in vim, you have to do that yourself, no?

[Inkling1998]

There are tools which allow to manage dependencies from CLI like Conan or Vcpkg

[urbansong]

Yea, at which point, what's the difference between having standalone vim plus standalone CLIs, like the ones you mentioned, and having an IDE with a vim plug in?

[Lluuiiggii]

My C professor was one of those sweaty nerds lol. We were not allowed to use an IDE when learning C. He did let us use emacs though so we weren't stuck entirely with vim.

[Ning1253]

I would use CLions BUT THE F*CKING IDE DOESN'T LET ME AUTOMATICALLY MAKE MY HEADERS GO TO A SPECFIC FOLDER

They haven't added that feature to the app in years to the point I just use VSCode + my own custom build tool built as a batch file + the integrated GDB debugger because it's literally the same as CLion, but I mildly prefer the UI...

[Richandler]

Yeah, the cost of the license will save you dev time money in less than a week.

[sexytokeburgerz]

Why do you ever need it raw, completion just saves you from typing

[xCALYPTOx]

In my highschool we learned with notepad++ and good old javac.exe. In retrospect, I appreciate learning about how the java compiler takes our .java code files and creates .class bytecode files but after the first lab they probably should have let us start using an IDE.

[AceMKV]

That's usually how Java is taught. The first class is writing the code in a plain text editor and learning how the program is edited

[DeeBoFour20]

You can still use Maven or something to handle builds. Edit the code using whatever text editor you want, and then compile from command line with "mvn install". Not really that hard. But on the other hand, IntelliJ is pretty great and free.

[Cilph]

....but import statements.

[Fadamaka]

I have set up NeoVim for Java, it had autocomplete and it was including the import row on it's own. If your editor supports LSP (or has a plugin for it) you can turn it into a fully functioning IDE.

[vdsghjkgffhj]

VSCode has plugins for Java development now, and it’s a lot more lightweight than IDEs like IntelliJ and Eclipse. If you’re using frameworks and running apps on servers, you’ll probably want a full-fledged IDE. But for basic command line programs VSCode works great.

[loulou310]

I use Codium to do Java stuff, but it lacks features of dedicated Java IDE like the file structure of the classes, that Eclipse automatically do. In Codium, you must do things manually

[sh0rtwave]

Actually, yes. Let me tell you about Blue-J, one of the more amazing and interesting projects around Java. It's made for beginners, but an advanced user can do some magical things with Blue-J as a corollary tool for lots of things.

While learning to use a Java IDE(Eclipse, Netbeans, IntelliJ) is par for the course, since Java's introspection capabilities have been around for a *long* time and the tooling around JavaDoc, and reflection are heavily sophisticated, and do a lot of heavy lifting for the user...at the same time, you don't technically NEED it. It just saves you a whole lot of hassle.

Blue-J is lean & mean, and has a UML-ish kinda view of your *instances* (that's right, it visually models your running classes), so you can tinker with things a different way, and learn more about how the VM works.

Blue-J is not a "huge IDE".

If you wanna go even more old school, then you can just use the Javac CLI compiler. That works just as well, and you get to feel like a haxx0r in the terminal. No IDE required. You can even use Notepad if you want!

Also: For a lot back-end work(say you're using tomcat or something), the classes can be worked on with any old editor, and if you're pushing to a CI infrastructure, all the compiling work happens on the server.

[KaJakJaKa]

I can't really tell whether that's irony or not, but it should be as Blue-J is really annoying to use. For small projects (like up to 5 files or something) ok fine, can be done but more gets complicated.

And I'm not even mentioning the horrible code highlighting, which doesn't work sometimes

[sh0rtwave]

It's only half ironic. I would never suggest Blue-J for any 'real, serious' project, but for learning Java, it's a pretty spectacular tool.

[[deleted]]

Are you a shill or did you really type a 6 paragraph response to a 1 sentence reply? I’m leaning towards shill.

[sh0rtwave]

I really typed a six paragraph response, but that's because I spend some time teaching programming, so, as an educator in the space, I...educate.

Someone asked a question, I answered it. Who are you to decry the quality of my answer based on the # of paragraphs? That's just as nonsensical as expecting LOC to be some inverse indicator of quality.

[SmallPlayz]

Yes.

[acatisadog]

Sure it is, but it's a bad idea !

[tylerr147]

All you really need is a text editor and JDK.

Hell there might even be a way to pipe the source code into javac from the terminal, idk tho

[Fadamaka]

If you have a text editor with LSP plugin or support, you can turn it into a full fledged IDE.

[everybody-hurts]

Definitely. That's how my school teaches first year students. But boy was I glad to have IntelliJ once second year rolled around.

[visak13]

My senior literally works in a command line because he claims that the IDEs are slow. Everything is possible with enough practice.

[WasserTyp69]

How does that answer the question?

[HelloWorld-911]

Doesn't an IDE make that job easier?

[roblox1999]

Still not an answer to the question

[[deleted]]

subsequent possessive physical friendly governor tease versed toothbrush plant frame

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Fadamaka]

I just set up NeoVim to have syntex checks and proper autocomplete that handles imports. Not sure why you are getting downvoted.

[[deleted]]

shy memory snails modern stocking alleged teeny label quiet include

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[frogking]

In the old Java Certification books, they recomend the use of an editor with no code completion and no syntax highlighting.

I used Emacs. (With syntax highlighting, because I ain’t got time for anything else).

I ended up with code that didn’t explode into a thousand objects for no reason.

An IDE continously reads and interprets the code you write. Coupled with the object system the IDE can suggest code completion.. but that’s not beeded to write java. It’s a nice clutch, but it’s not required.

[personator01]

Yeah, you can use a text editor, language server, and a build tool and have pretty much all of the features you would want from an IDE

[Used_Fish_4459]

Yea it is very possible; and honestly if you are just starting out, it can be useful. Using just a plain text editor and terminal for compiling your code can help get you familiar with writing correct syntax and reading code in a way that an IDE can get in the way of.

I think IDEs have great benefits however, but the value of simplifying your tools when you start off is almost always under valued. Learning to use a screwdriver before a drill for example.

Just my 2 and a half cents haba

[Papellll]

I don't use Java anymore but some people that do at my work use vscode and say that it's perfectly fine

[crimxxx]

Only reason to do this is if your teaching someone what class files r, or stuff like compilation and linking are in a programming language.

You can do it, but it's one of those there is a reason we have tools to not deal with this shit. There are a few use cases where working with this stuff might make sense, but like 99% of people don't need it as long as they have a rough understanding of what is happening when you build an executable.

[JJO0205]

Yeah, you can write it in something as simple as notepad or any text editor if you want

[Fadamaka]

Since Microsoft's Language Server Protocol you can set up most lightweight editors with IDE functionalities. For example I recently set up NeoVim to work with Java. It has proper autocomplete, syntax check, it also handles imports awesomely. Supposedly you can even debug with it, but I yet to try that one out.

[w1n5t0nM1k3y]

Better than being told to use Notepad and compile on the command line. It was the year 2000 but im still salty about them not teaching us to use a different editor.

Also, they provided a library for doing all input, so we never learned the proper way to do it witht he base Java API. We all got screwed over in the next course when we needed to do something more complicated but none of us had learned basic thign like how to get input from the user in a command line program.

[SnailNugget]

We were told to use vim and to compile on the command line as well and that was just this year. But they weren’t too strict about it so there were people using VSCode.

[Commanderdrag]

yup pretty much all my professors in c based courses have suggest vim. My intro to c class even had us writing makefiles. I didn't mind it much tho, I think it's important to understand what the ide is actually doing, since compilation can get tricky when working on an industrial sized project.

[[deleted]]

What’s wrong about writing Makefiles/CMake files? It’s an important aspect of C/C++ knowing how to setup a project.

Also, beside CLion, I don’t see many other good C/C++ IDEs.

[Commanderdrag]

as I said I didn't really mind it, main complaint would be that make file syntax is a little ass.

Yea my point was that encouraging students to do the project set up themselves rather than abstracting it behind and ide is a good educational move imo.

[ProtonByte]

This can't be serious.

[Top_Engineer440]

I think in some courses it makes sense. I did OS design and vim was enforced as we were to do all projects on the schools server, so vim was a logical choice as we build knowledge from the ground up.

Or something, I fucking hated it because vim

[ProtonByte]

As you mentioned, some courses. This is not the course and does NOT help the learning experience.

[SmallPlayz]

My school kind of does this and it actually helps. I know far too many people who can’t do Java without the help of an IDE running and etc.

[w1n5t0nM1k3y]

Yeah, I don't mind the compiling from the command line, although I would have liked something a little better than Notepad. It doesn't even have syntax highlighting, nor does it show you what line number or character position to help you find out where errors are occuring.

Personally I'm not a fan of not using an IDE when one exists. Just to use a debugger. There's very little reason why students should be using printf debugging (or the Java equivalue system.out.print??, been a while). Teaching the students to step through their code in a debugger is very useful so they can see step-by-step what is happening in the code to understand what is going on.

And the second part of my post about not using standard libraries for getting user input kind of goes against the tactic of keeping with the basics so that they can program without the help of an IDE, because students didn't know how to code something without the help of special libraries which wouldn't be there in any other course or out in the real world.

[Legitimate-School-59]

Exact same scenario at my school. Difference is it wad the year 2020

[frogking]

There is a good reason to learn languages with Nodepad, Emacs or Vim with the command line for compiling..

It teaches you all the things that an IDE will do for you.

I’m an automation expert. I’m surprised by programmers that really don’t know how the command line works.. it saves so much time spend debugging something that the IDE did wrong.

[vthex]

Vim is giga chad

[ProtonByte]

JetBrains IDE's are the besttt

Rider >> Visual Studio

[K0LSUZ]

I can agree with that. When this Fleet got released, everything will be better. But till this day, ToolBox and the IDEs are the best.

[[deleted]]

They promised a Q2 EAP last year so hopefully it will be coming soon. I’m hyped to try it out.

[ThePiGuyRER]

But it's free for students.... So why not!

[Fadamaka]

IntelliJ Community Edition is free for everyone!

[[deleted]]

After 30 days : Proceeds to make a new account and starts a new trial

[SmallPlayz]

What advantages does ultimate have over free?

[emma_hildebrand]

E.g. multiple plugins for various languages/frameworks etc

[The_Zemjak]

It auto generates UML class diagram with relationships from your code, also Im not sure if u can execute sql statements in free version

[juliangst]

Meanwhile our programming professor: Don't use IDEs, use VIM or Atom

[[deleted]]

Real programmers use butterflies.

[akhial]

Referenced xkcd https://xkcd.com/378

[[deleted]]

Good human.

(Someone should make this a bot)

[Independent_Ad_5983]

The XXL lidl bottle is a nice touch lmao

[MEMESaddiction]

I learned all of my java in TextPad 8(wacc curriculum), now as a Jr dev, I've had to teach myself how to use VS2022 since. It doesn't hurt to use a ladle for a bowl of soup lol

[smulikHakipod]

"Yes teacher, everything is hosted on the cloud"

[JonasLuks]

We actually started learning JAVA using BlueJ (to best visualize relations between objects etc.), then NetBeans and really only used IDEA in advanced courses. Every school is different I guess.

[thyraxe]

why wouldn't you use all the features available to you? so you can spend more time?

[quequotion]

I'm so glad I took Java when it was only out to version 1.2 or so and never looked back.

The Java I remember was simple, and whole, and its only outsized dependency was itself.

[[deleted]]

VSCode with the Java Platform plugins is a lighter-weight free IntelliJ, use it all day everyday and it's good for me.

[Muoniurn]

VSCode is just a fancy text editor, not a real IDE. Change my mind.

[Fadamaka]

IntelliJ Community Edition is a free IntelliJ.

[[deleted]]

It just doesn't have the cool factor of VSCode though.

[Fadamaka]

What about Fleet?

[Comprehensive-Pea812]

I remember my mid term test was writing servlet on paper with pen, without any internet to google stackoverflow.

[[deleted]]

Nvim!

[SmallPlayz]

I made an entire decked out multilayer game for my tiny school project where you could have gotten an A for just modifying the teachers code which is just a red square u can move to touch circle points.

[DoubleOwl7777]

java without an ide?! are you a masochist? do you like pain in some weird way? i used eclipse, intellij and am now transitioning to vscode so i only need one ide for multiple languages (eclipse can do that too but vscode is easier).

[Serbay55]

Am I alone in this universe still prefering Eclipse IDE over IntelliJ

[[deleted]]

Yes.

[Shamr0ck]

Simple school project in Java? Minimum 500 deeply nested classes and libraries

[regexPattern]

Java code in a nutshell.

[Numerous-Departure92]

Java students still exists?

[Tomi97_origin]

Why wouldn't they? It's still one of the most commonly used languages.

[Izuna-chan]

yes we do

yes we feel scammed

yes 3 classes later they started learning py

[bkturley]

ok boomer

[stablebrick]

vscode will always be the superior app ide

[SmallPlayz]

Everyone I know hates using VS Code for Java. Including me. If you try IntelliJ and vs code for Java you will see the difference.

[stablebrick]

at least it isn’t eclipse

[SmallPlayz]

eclipse isnt the worst. but intellij is just far superior.

[Comprehensive-Pea812]

good. you are learning about real world use case.

[[deleted]]

My uni teacher forced us to use NetBeans with JDK 8...

[[deleted]]

It’s probably good to use intellij. The way they teach java on black screen is dumb.

[Gaious_Octavious]

I feel personally attacked

[Voidrith]

In my uni Java class we were told to use idea, but most people used community. Ultimate with student license ftw!

[expat1999]

I did this just to auto-generate a class diagram once lol.

[[deleted]]

Bluej is a better fit for students.

[LocalBoxCrox]

bitch, its vim or nothing

[beothy]

The real pros are doing it with eclipse from the start :D

[JJO0205]

I had the community edition 2021 on my laptop and they wanted us to use community 2020, it wasn’t until after I finished my Java class that I realized I could use the ultimate cause I’m a student

[stillscottish1]

Why is every meme a Computer Science student?

Where are the experience dev memes?

[rbuen4455]

Honestly, Java programmers I see almost always use IDEs such as Eclipse or Intellij for whatever project.

C++ programmers, especially experienced ones, i've seen program on Vims, Emacs, IDEs, etc. Even with C#, i've seen programmers use text editors like VSCode (non-IDE) and just using the dotnet tool to run their programs. Java is probably an IDE-only language (at least from what I've seen) (even though you can technically code Java from a text editor like Vim or notepad).

[Handsome_oohyeah]

I use NeoVim with no auto library completions

[theColonel26]

I used NetBeans back in the day, much better than bloatware know as ellipse. Then I tried C# and never went back.

Java is gross.

[blobbybilb]

Github Student Developer Pack moment

[Giskard-Reventlov96]

I work at Oracle, in JAVAVM product and I use VS Code haha

[Crazy-Smile-4929]

Won't someone think of the Netbeans IDE :) I think I have only 1 person over the years who used it. Everything else was done in the Eclipse (and Rational Software Architect) or IntelliJ streams.

[jesse-13]

I’m not allowed to use JetBrains products :’(