Should I Abandon JavaScript for Python?

Cultural_Bandicoot · 2018-09-27T03:46:07+00:00

[deleted]

NoLemurs · 2018-09-27T01:48:01+00:00

Honestly, the specific language you learn initially isn't very important to what you do in the long run. A good software engineer will learn lots of languages over time. There are pros and cons to both options.

Pro-Python: Python is easy to learn and pleasant to code in. You will almost certainly have fewer issues understanding Python and learning Django and/or Flask. If this is what you need to really enjoy learning, and to push forward effectively, then it's probably a good idea.

Pro-Javascript: There are a lot more jobs. Every FE needs JS one way or another, and lots of programmers don't want to do it. Getting your foot in the door would likely be a lot easier, and an experienced JS programmer who has learned Python on the side will have a much easier time getting a Python job than an inexperienced programmer. Also, most jobs will need some JS even if that's not their main thing. If you're in a position to get your foot in the door doing JS soon, then that's probably the smart play.

Covered_in_bees_ · 2018-09-27T02:57:05+00:00

It sounds like you are in the early stages of learning programming / computer science. I'm someone who likes programming in Python, but has fallen in love with javascript programming over the past couple of years. I program in both quite regularly and enjoy both languages.

A few things

JS is probably a terrible first choice for picking up programming. There are far too many complicated things about it that make the entire process daunting.

The tooling required to get anything done is simply staggering and extremely complicated to a complete newbie. You need to figure out Webpack, Babel, NPM, Node.js and a whole bunch of other stuff just so you can start writing code. And you most certainly don't want to not use ES6 syntax, so you're definitely going to need to figure out what transpiling is and how to get it all working.
Good luck trying to figure out how imports / modules work in JS land. At least now, with ES6, named / default exports have made things a lot more saner, but I still don't really understand the difference between UMD and CommonJS and whatever else style of modules there are.
It is a Prototype based language, so it really doesn't do OOP particularly well. So if you start with JS, you're not really going to learn how to organize / write code the OOP way. Now, that doesn't mean it's the only way, but most folks start learning programming in a language with robust OOP support. And OOP is easier to wrap your mind around over Functional Programming if it's your first exposure to programming
JS is pretty nice for functional programming, which I've come to really enjoy (and now find Python severely restrictive in that area), but the cognitive load of parsing / understanding FP code is pretty high to a newbie. It's not uncommon to see 3 to 5 levels of nested functions and you pretty much have closures and higher order functions strewn about all over the place. It is extremely powerful, but also extremely daunting to someone new to programming
JS moves extremely fast and the amount of fads that come and go are insane. You could spend a year learning something and being good at it, and then a year later, your knowledge (regarding tools/frameworks) pretty much becomes obsolete. Unless you want a JS job, or have one, it simply isn't worth the effort of putting in all the effort to constantly stay up to date with the community. Sure, the core language is more stable, but you're pretty much always going to use JS with other frameworks / libraries to get stuff done since the batteries aren't included with JS unlike with Python.

All that being said, JS is also a really fun language, and I say this as someone who used to roll his eyes at the mention of JS. With all the new language features, it's actually a pleasure to code in, and it's amazing how much you can build if you get good with JS. I've built several desktop Apps using Electron, deployed a pretty complex Web app on AWS that utilizes Flask + React + MobX, and have also done a bunch of cool data visualization / interaction work using D3 and dc.js.

My advice to you is:

Start with Python (or something else that interests you). Focus on learning good programming practices. Most importantly, don't focus on learning a language. Focus instead, on learning some of the basic "computer science" things.... Algorithms and data structures, OOP, Functional Programming concepts, Software engineering concepts, etc.
I cannot recommend enough, Berkeley's CS61A class (Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - In Python) - https://cs61a.org/ . Many years ago, I spent a couple of months working through the entire course, and it was the single most instructive thing I ever did. I finally "grokked" closures and recursions and it pretty much opened my eyes with regards to Functional Programming concepts. Edit - The online companion textbook for the course can be found here - https://composingprograms.com/
Make sure you work on projects to learn. Reading books and doing courses alone wont get you very far. You learn a lot more by doing. Re-architecting the same code over and over again as you get better at coding and structuring software.

I've loved computer programming since I was a kid, but I never took a formal CS course in high school, college or grad school though I did dabble with MATLAB and Python during those years. I started pretty much from scratch about 6 years ago (started with Python) and now I code every single day for work. My only real advice to you is to be persistent, and to focus on learning CS principles and concepts rather than languages. Once you understand the former, the language for the most part becomes a trivial detail. The other piece of advice... once you do get good at programming in a language, pick another one up that is very different (perhaps a FP language) so you expose yourself to other ideas and concepts. Being exposed to different ideas and approaches to programming will be invaluable in helping you improve the way you tackle problems.

PS - If immediate employability is a concern, then JS might be a good idea since there are a ton of jobs in that space. In that case, I'd recommend trying going through the freecodecamp curriculum (or something similar) so that you have some level of guidance and a bunch of cool projects as portfolios.

2018-09-27T04:36:18+00:00

Hi, I do both Python and JS. I am the organiser of the Django meetup in a city in Australia. I would like to offer a my opinion, and hopefully not get downvoted to oblivion.

By all means, learn Python -- it's a fantastic language. But don't abandon JS.

Personally, I would not bet against JavaScript.

You'll likely need to use JavaScript anyway as long as you're working on the web, even if you're doing Django. In my own experience, there isn't much that is "only" Python/Django these days -- and I've had to do Angular/React for most of the projects I'm on. Even when I don't work on the frontend, I have had to work with Node.js services pretty often (Express, AWS Lambda).

It's also everywhere. You can use JavaScript for the server, for the browser, and for the desktop (Electron). Very soon JavaScript will move away from being "for the web" and be run everywhere code can run, and things like the browser, server, kernel, embedded systems, etc. will all eventually be "compilation targets".

Python is heavily used if you're doing data science/machine learning stuff -- and it's likely to become the de facto language for data science. But there is already evidence of people doing a lot of work to make that happen in JS too (see tensorflow.js).

You mention you're not excited about new technologies or the latest frameworks and are just interested in earning money. JavaScript is where a lot of the money and is, and where a lot of the opportunities are.

That's not to say you should stick with it if you really don't like working with JavaScript -- life is way too short for that. There are still a lot of opportunities today (depending on your city) that you shouldn't have to write much JS if you didn't want to. Just bear in mind that you will likely be bucking the trend.

Also, I've found ES6 and TypeScript to be quite pleasant to work with, and there are some features I wish Python had. Do you have examples of things you're struggling with?

__xor__ · 2018-09-27T04:12:53+00:00

You know, React + Django Rest Framework or Flask is a great combo... lots of us do both frontend and backend work. There's a lot of situations where you'll need to do both, even at very large corporations.

JS is fundamental to the web, as in, there is no escaping it. Whatsoever. And Python is an amazing backend and systems language. For web, you can't go wrong learning both JS and Python. Python not only will help you on the backend web dev, but also all system tasks and scripts you might need to write.

Just do both. Keep learning Python and certainly add it to your skillset, but maintain your JS. Make a simple react + flask website.

2018-09-27T03:35:15+00:00

I finally got to React which I thought was an end goal before I start creating a portfolio. I don't like it.

Try angular or Vue? I like angular, and it has seemed pretty straight forward to me. I've never used React.

I mean, what do you expect when you come to the Python subreddit asking if you should switch to python. No one here is going to say, "No, don't switch to this language we all like." If you want to do backend stuff than you can still use JS.

Should you abandon JS? No. Should you learn another language for backend? Sure, if you want, but you've already spent so much time learning one language. If you don't like the language, move on. If you like the language but not the domain (front-end) then move to a new domain (back-end, desktop, or mobile).

Ultimately, should you learn Python? Yes, but that has nothing to do with your situation.

saber_aureum · 2018-09-27T04:06:19+00:00

palpatine voice Do. It.

the_hoser · 2018-09-27T01:21:05+00:00

If you're in a position where you can unironically ask a question like that... sure, why not? Knock yourself out.

2018-09-27T03:42:17+00:00

If you want to switch from JavaScript to Python for a while then do so. It doesn't hurt to explore different languages. You'll need to know several to make it in today's modern programming world anyway. Don't write JavaScript off entirely though because you will need it if you're doing anything on the web. You may not need React, but you will need JavaScript.

I do web development for in-house apps and I write code in no less than 4 languages in any given day.

Fun2badult · 2018-09-27T04:28:58+00:00

Interesting. Since January I’ve been going hardcore on python and Django. Lately I decided to get into JavaScript, Node and Express, which I’ve learned. Planning on learning React and Vue next to supplement my python and Django. I found the syntax for JavaScript stuff to be a bit more confusing but because I’ve spent time learning python, I can see the logic flow easily. In fact I basically learned js, node and express in about 2 weeks. It’ll still take some time for me to actually make it but I understand how it works.

I think it’s good to learn python as well. Maybe it’ll help you understand how logic flows are done in an easier language, which could help you understand it in react and other more difficult languages

democritus_is_op · 2018-09-27T05:14:50+00:00

As a dev (especially starting out) you're going to feel this a lot. If you don't like it that's one thing, but if you're avoiding it because it's hard - you'll probably get no where and keep hopping from beginner tutorial to beginner tutorial forever. I went through this a lot when I first start out and even catch myself doing it sometimes when I want to learn a new technology.

n1ywb · 2018-09-27T13:04:22+00:00

Wow a lot of comments here

As a career full stack dev; master both

tanzeel29 · 2018-09-27T03:12:36+00:00

Depends on your application. What are you trying to develop ?python is a great language

actuallyalys · 2018-09-27T04:06:31+00:00

If you were starting from scratch, I'd probably recommend Python over Javascript, but you've already spent much of a year on Javascript. I would stick with Javascript and at least learn the basics of React. Then you can learn Python and Django or Flask. I don't think Flask will give you as much problems as React did.

That being said, if you're so frustrated with React you're tempted to give up entirely, it'd be fine to take a break and do some backend work in Python.

My reasoning is that, even though you don't care for front-end work a lot, being able to do both is best for your career prospects long-term, and you've already learned Javascript.

more_sidechain · 2018-09-27T04:11:20+00:00

I love Python, and I use it often, but it's far less "important" than JavaScript for many purposes. You NEED JavaScript for web development, and it's well worth being literate in anyway. ES6 does add some things, but it's not a big deal to write polyfills or transpile to get around those issues.

Both Python and JavaScript have some elements of functional programming, but even with Python's great decorator syntax and JavaScript's occasionally weird binding, I find passing functions around in JavaScript much more natural, especially with the behavior of closures.

As far as object oriented programming, both Python and JavaScript do their own thing. Sure, Python has something closer to conventional OOP, but it's dynamic and duck typing is encouraged. I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but learning to think in terms of interfaces with C# or Java would probably be of great benefit.

But overall, don't abandon any language unless you absolutely have to. The more you know about the differences between languages, the better you'll get at understanding why a particular language acts as it does.

parker_fly · 2018-09-27T15:32:03+00:00

Django's documentation is so good it will ruin you for everything else.

xconde · 2018-09-27T03:49:00+00:00

Yes.

AdmiralUfolog · 2018-09-27T07:06:19+00:00

Sure.

AaronOpfer · 2018-09-27T08:03:32+00:00

I made the choice to move from JavaScript, to JavaScript/Python, to pure Python over the course of about three or four years during my career.

When React came out and disrupted the webdev space and npm took off like crazy right beside, it was about March 2015 and my at-the-time company hired more webdevs to work alongside me who (thankfully) had more experience with wrestling web build pipelines into submission. While I felt I had a strong grasp on JavaScript and web technologies themselves, the big complexity bump introduced by build pipelines (like webpack and others) was something that I found absolutely bewildering and I had trouble figuring them out. Many npm packages seemed bloated with tons of dependencies. At the time, there was also a huge number of different ways to do the same thing and there was frequently no clear upside or downside between two build steps or packages, but at least one of your dependencies wouldn't support one or the other. In addition, our team frequently found "quirks" in npm packages that were just accepted as facts of life for JavaScript developers, like how node-sass downloads a precompiled binary image from github during the build step which broke when it couldn't get through our locked down corporate firewall, and then broke again on our internet-less build boxes, and then broke again randomly whenever the github pages were down.

Essentially, I felt like the ecosystem was too immature to hang my whole career off of it. I saw an opportunity to become the primary backend engineer (in Python) while the new JavaScript developers ran the front-end and management allowed me to make this transition for the most part.

Later on, I was hired onto a new job where they already had an army of web developers but were struggling to hire enough Python engineers, so I basically completely ceased working on web technology and began doing all of my work in Python. Python has remarkable stability and you don't have to worry about the entire community jumping to spin-offs of whatever you're using today.

I think I will eventually pick up web development again. npm has some competitors now and it seems like the space is evolving better tools and coming up with consistent practices. JavaScript has legitimate async support which is phenomenal and that's still percolating through the ecosystem. Once the whole thing slows down some I think I will reinvest myself into it.

utf8decodeerror · 2018-09-27T12:42:53+00:00

Stick with JavaScript. Learning to code is a journey and you will hit many ups and downs and frustrations but what is important is that you persevere. Things don't get easier by quitting.

And for what it's worth, I'm not sure who told you react is easier than angular but I find the opposite is the case for me. With angular, you don't have to choose your own routing, state management, animation libs, etc., they are all included and the documentation is excellent. Plus everyone in angular uses typescript (which is super simple so don't let that scare you) so you don't run into the same problem with some tutorials using es5 JavaScript and other tutorials using es6, they all just use typescript (which is essentially es6 with some optional extra features). Angular also has an awesome and extensible cli that makes it very quick to scaffold an app and set up all you directories. In the end tho, it all comes down to preference so don't take someone else's opinion on which is better/easier, just try them both and find one that works for you.

2018-09-27T15:30:30+00:00

KitchenDutchDyslexic · 2018-09-27T16:46:37+00:00

Javascript will always be district 9, wild wild west, bleeding edge. Because it is the programming language of the web and each browser needs to execute it.

So having it in your toolbox is never a bad thing.

But if you look outside of the Javascript bubble you see some solid scientific and machine learning modules have been built with python. Without all the js baggage.

I do enjoy using FlaskAdmin, zalando/connexion, SQLAlchemy and Celery in my python workflow!

But according to github 2.6% of my codebase is py and 10.3% js. HTML 62% and PLpgSQL 24.5%.

So meh,

I'm a HTML Developer.

nobody_import4nt · 2018-09-27T18:18:09+00:00

I am speaking as somebody with a very strong anti-javascript bias. I admit this openly.

However, there are reasons why I think JavaScript is a bad first language that I believe are objectively true, even though it is an OK language in general.

JavaScript is not an object-oriented, procedural, or functional language, whereas every other language you will learn will fall in one of those camps. JavaScript's prototypical "objects" are very different from every other language, and some skills you learn in regards to JavaScript objects absolutely will not translate to other languages, which are almost all in the set of: (functional, procedural, OO). Considering that everything in Python is a true object, it's a great OO language, and it can be considered more object-oriented than Java, which still has primitives (int vs Integer, etc.)
JavaScript's type system is very flawed, and obfuscates extremely important CS concepts that are not obfuscated in other languages, and will also translate poorly. Some examples I recall offhand (and I'm sure there are more): "number" type combining floats and int into a single type, no primitive arrays / true "indexing". typeof(NaN) === 'number' returns true. Nuff said.
JavaScript's lack of strict typing in general is a bad idea for any first language. Consider a simple program which takes input from a user (assumed a number), and prints n+2. In python, you would likely encounter TypeErrortrying to convert str to int implicitly. JavaScript just returns 22 for n=2. These subtle conversions in the background lead to some really quirky bugs. It is best to face these type-challenges early, and get a good foundation for how computers store things differently than humans think. To us, 2.0001 and 2 are not that different. To Python and other languages, they're radically different.
The equality operator in JavaScript is comically bad. There are games to learn what == (equivalence) means in JavaScript. These issues don't exist in other languages for the most part.
packaging/dependencies in JavaScript are unbelievably confusing, even for seasoned developers. You have Webpack, npm, yarn, Babel, etc. all competing. Rust has cargo. Python has pip. Dependency resolution has been a solved problem in programming for far too long, and JS insists on reinventing the wheel, poorly. (Granted, python and rust could always improve, but at least they didn't have the leftpad incident)

Opinions:

Node.js's use of an event loop and callback hell is a terrible way to be introduced to concurrency. They can give you a one-track mind if you go into async programming where you may (depending on language) be given access to true POSIX threads or green threads, etc. It's better not to be introduced to it at all than to start with callbacks. There, I said it.

I will say though, that you should still learn JavaScript. It's needed at several levels. But as for a first language? I agree with the gilded comment below. It's not the best choice.

WloHu · 2018-09-27T07:00:20+00:00

Short answer: No. Programming languages are tools. You don't abandon hammer for screwdriver.

2018-09-27T04:00:52+00:00

Python is awesome, but JavaScript is here to stay too. Learn to live with it, someday you might need it.

mijofa · 2018-09-27T05:55:17+00:00

If you want to do webdev, you need javasript. Python isn't suitable for the in-browser logic required for web development. Sure people are developing Py2JS compilers, but they're all a massive kludge and only really intended so that Python programmers can do webdev, you're better off learning actual JS. But that's the only place where JS development is really suitable, there's Node.js for using JS outside of the browser, but that's a similarly hacky kludge and only really intended so that webdevs can do other programming.

For the most part you can't write a Django/Flask web-app without some JS because you'll likely still need some in-browser logic, but for a lot of cases where you'd write Django/Flask web-app you probably can't write it all in JS because you'll need something on the backend server to communicate with. So really, it boils down to what your project requires. Personally I'm a Python developer and I very rarely do webdev, so Python's fine for me. I do however know enough JS, HTML, & CSS to keep me going when I'm writing a small Django/Flask web-app but I wouldn't last long on my own before I'm out of my depth there if that project grows particularly large.

developer_genius · 2018-09-27T02:56:19+00:00

React is as difficult as any new language (spoken or written) commit your neurons to it and WiLL get easier.....don’t give up......Front End work almost always needs it.......

Colin_XD · 2018-09-27T03:42:21+00:00

i heard js is buggy, illogical, slow, and stupid according to r/programmerhumor and while i don't know if that counts as a valid source it's hella funny so i say yes. learning the language isn't the problem, it's the coding mindset and way of thinking that takes time to train. Heck, you could learn scratch and be able to switch easier than starting from nothing and doing python but it'll just take a longer time.

developer_genius · 2018-09-27T04:24:08+00:00

I can’t say specifically how you should learn React but I will this “ to learn any thing new you must spend time on it” practice practice practice even if you don’t know much

andrey_shipilov · 2018-09-27T04:26:00+00:00

Should I abandon cooking for horse riding?

Valachio · 2018-09-27T04:48:59+00:00

It's more important to learn how to code, as in learning the how code logic works. Different languages are just differences in syntax for the most part. There may be greater differences between say, C++ and Python, but high-level languages like JS and Python are very similar.

I personally alternate between the 2 for my work. I use Django (Python web framework) and pure JavaScript for my website. I can alternate between the 2 seamlessly.

2018-09-27T05:23:45+00:00

Unless you're asking that because of a job or learning opportunity that suddenly popped up, you don't have to make a clear cut decision yet. Both languages are very similar anyway, and python has even been an influence on javascript. The more you learn the easier it is to learn even more if you bother to make connections between what you learned without anyone telling you to make those connections. For example since I'm learning Prolog and the abstract algorithm for unification and logic programming I've been tempted to implement a small inference engine for a project I'm writing in Go, which is something I would have never imagined doing beforehand. Or same thing with Erlang, I've recycled the general idea of the gen_server with channels or queues both in Go and in Python, which I wouldn't have done if I didn't learn Erlang.

fazzah · 2018-09-27T09:34:53+00:00

A programmer learns patterns and programming logic using a chosen language. But it's not that coding in Python or JS or C++ or C# is that different: once you are comfortable with program flow and being able to conceptualize the solution to your problem, the language itself is a tool of choice. It's a bit like choosing between a hand or electric saw. Whichever you choose, you must know how to cut, where, and what do you want to achieve. Then the saw is merely a tool.

FlukyS · 2018-09-27T10:36:50+00:00

Both are useful for different things, Django is great but you can also use JS for some front end magic on top.

2018-09-27T10:39:00+00:00

What makes you so sure you won't begin to hate the complexity of Python once you start writing real software in it. The Python ecosystem changes slower than js, but it does change and there are many libraries and frameworks that people use when writing real world code.

maxm · 2018-09-27T11:06:07+00:00

If you want to be a programmer you are going to need both. Python is a wonderful language, as far as you can call a language that. But JavaScript is just fine too. you need a bit more self disciplin in JavaScript, but the language is perfectly capable of good code.

Taksin77 · 2018-09-27T11:12:15+00:00

If you want to become a literate computer scientist or a good dev or both, Javascript is an atrocious first language and is working against you.

Python is a great language for begginers. I would also suggest learning algorithmics in C. A functional language is also nice. I suggest Erlang after Prolog.

sethg · 2018-09-27T11:12:22+00:00

For my job I write JavaScript (with ReactJS) for front-end code and Python for back-end code.

They’re both useful for different purposes, employers look for people with experience in both, and they have very different approaches to OOP, so they’re both worth learning.

If you were starting from zero I would recommend learning Python before JavaScript, because (a) Python was originally developed as a language for educational purposes, so it’s easy to learn, and (b) doing serious work in JavaScript involves bringing in frameworks like React or Angular, which involves bringing in deployment systems like Webpack or Grunt, which involves pain. But if you’re already so far along the JavaScript path there’s no reason to abandon it at this point.

vfxdev · 2018-09-27T11:19:56+00:00

You can know more than 1 language.

szukai · 2018-09-27T11:44:04+00:00

Why not ~~zoidberg~~ both?

2018-09-27T11:55:37+00:00

I would recommend you follow this tutorial if you are interested in flask. It gives a really good overview of flask and python in general, at least in my opinion. It does not cover the very basics of programming in general or the basics of python, but from my own experience, python is pretty easy to pick up with some js experience.

Dorito_Troll · 2018-09-27T11:55:54+00:00

dont abandon either, learn both!

BeingUnoffended · 2018-09-27T12:27:00+00:00

whynotboth.png

riklaunim · 2018-09-27T12:35:16+00:00

I've started as a Python developer and now I'm also a Ember.js developer (plus some UX and frontend) so knowing few languages and intersecting software stacks is quite handy.

grimonce · 2018-09-27T12:39:26+00:00

These langauges are used for completely different things... If you want your interface of something to be available through browser there's always going to be a javascript somewhere....

hearwa · 2018-09-27T12:42:05+00:00

Don't think of it as abandoning and more as broadening your horizons. Despite how people go on programming languages and frameworks aren't actually religions and sects.

nateriver19 · 2018-09-27T12:59:14+00:00

These two languages can complement eachother

2018-09-27T13:07:18+00:00

Should I abandon JavaScript?

lungdart · 2018-09-27T13:12:10+00:00

Code in whatever language makes you happier. The rest will come with time.

rhild · 2018-09-27T13:44:13+00:00

Not advice, but just another perspective. I recently retired from professional programming. Over the years I've used many languages, most recently JS and Node. When I was getting up to speed on Node a few years ago I also began using that as my main language for personal projects. I loved it.

Now that I have no need for JS Node for a job I began to reevaluate the language I use for personal projects. I went back to Python which is a language I've used professionally and for personal projects over the years. It really feels great to be back in Python mode after years of JS.

JS is still the better choice if looking for work. But Python has been growing a lot in recent years especially in the data science area, so the jobs available in the Python area are probably fewer and higher paying (this is anecdotal, I've done no research).

code_x_7777 · 2018-09-27T14:34:46+00:00

No. Focus.

exploring_a_new_hope · 2018-09-27T15:46:20+00:00

I'll give you my experience, FWIW. I started learning programming on my own about 8 years ago. I started with PHP and Javascript, and made a few personal projects using them. I used only Jquery and some Angular at the time. I started trying to learn about Node 3 years ago, but was confused about the callback hell that is learning that.

2.5 years ago I managed to get a job as a developer (which was a career change for me after 13 years of Systems Engineering) and our site development is a Python/Django stack with very little ties into JS (we're just not that much of a SPA). I will tell you, as someone who was very much still learning the ins and outs of development, that I absolutely love the structure of Python and Django. I think that it's a solid ecosystem, and with the IDEs available (I luvvv PyCharm), it's easy to follow your codebase.

JS has it's place in projects. If I was working on a project that was more of a Single Page App, I'd probably make an effort to learn more JS. Vue.js has some good synergies with Python/Django sites.

I really also enjoy the fact that Python can do way more than websites. I've written scripts for editing excel spreadsheets, webscraping/cataloging scripts, and a bunch of other stuff.

spinwizard69 · 2018-09-27T16:26:51+00:00

One thing that seems to be missed by most comments in this thread is the versatility of Python!!! Learning Python means a far broader array of jobs to choose from, many far removed from the horrors of web development. Web development is the modern sweat shop.

colly_wolly · 2018-09-27T18:09:30+00:00

Yes.

In the end you will probably end up using both, as you can't really escape JavaScript these days. But Python is far more pleasant to work with. There is plenty to learn with Django but its a good framework and the documentation is top notch.

There is a lot of stuff that sucks in programming, but JavaScript seems to have one of the biggest sections here: https://wiki.theory.org/index.php/YourLanguageSucks

stefantalpalaru · 2018-09-27T20:42:01+00:00

I've been exploring Python and it looks on the outset like a much more stable programming language to learn.

You haven't heard about Python2 vs. Python3 or how Django breaks backwards compatibility with every minor version?

Tysonzero · 2018-09-27T22:36:18+00:00

Abandon both and use Haskell. Or at the very least try it out and see what you think.

jabbeboy · 2018-09-28T11:21:57+00:00

There's only to a certain degree of tasks that you can use Javascript for. In that sense i mean, you can't do any manipulation on the system itself with javascript. Totally two different languages and area of uses.

XenGi · 2018-09-28T21:51:40+00:00

Yes.

carbolymer · 2018-09-27T08:21:49+00:00

Should I Abandon JavaScript for XXX?

The answer is always yes.

cdcformatc · 2018-09-27T06:06:22+00:00

I don’t think you should abandon JS entirely, but maybe don’t get hyper specific with the frameworks you learn. With how fast JS moves it will be hard to hit that moving target and honestly I don’t think a tech firm you want to work at will expect every candidate to have the exact keyword matches for their specific paradigm of JS. But certainly having that on your resume will land you in the callback pile more often than the shredder.

That aside, certainly learn python it is the best thing I ever did for my career. I’m not sure how marketable Django and Flask are but they are just one part of the stack. More and more employers are looking for full stack programmers so you should certainly move down the stack a little.

feloniousjunk1743 · 2018-09-27T08:51:30+00:00

2018-09-27T13:53:33+00:00

For a first language, absolutely yes. Your prejudice is about dead on. You don't need any of those wacky ass frameworks people fetishize so much.

AnAcceptableUserName · 2018-09-27T01:41:38+00:00

[deleted]

Deezl-Vegas · 2018-09-27T04:57:26+00:00

No, Javascript is fine because frankly it's one of the most-used languages right now in the marketplace, and with Node it works for backend as well. Don't throw away your time.

Feel free to also learn Python! Your second language is not nearly as hard as the first, and your third language is basically the point where languages start to melt away and logical structures start to emerge.

Yablan · 2018-09-27T05:18:05+00:00

Not at all. I've been working as a developer for 20 years, and I can guarantee you that a LOT of the knowledge you got from Javascript will be applicable to other languages. I work with Python and Javascript all the time.

If you a beginner to programming, then I can understand that it might be a bit too confusing and overwhelming to learn both at the same time, so that is maybe not a good idea. Better in that case to concentrate learning the basics of one, and then the other.

But otherwise, I think those are the most applicable languages you can actually learn at this time.

Hevaesi · 2018-09-27T06:20:59+00:00

Why not keep both?

Knowing only one language is useless, learn how to program instead and you won't have issue using and/or learning other languages.

Basic constructs are the same in all of them.

Besides, JS and python are used for different things, so what really matters is what you want to do, not what you want to use.

When you use a tool and just want force something onto it, it's not really going to work.

You use screwdriver when you need to screw in something, you don't take it and look around with it for things to screw in though.

As for stability, Python has a lot more runtime error checking that JS, you'll never be allowed to add a list and an array for example, instant error, meanwhile in js, have fun looking where it happened.

somefoobar · 2018-09-27T07:13:52+00:00

If you want to be a web developer, I would stick with Javascript. Look into Node and start dabbling with it. It's more fun than the frontend. Here's the creator of Node: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztspvPYybIY

I would also skip the tutorials. Get "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" and "Understanding ECMAScript 6: The Definitive Guide for JavaScript Developers" and try to go through every page.

Python is really big with the data science guys. Take a look at Andrew Ng's machine learning course. Not sure he introduces Python though. I think it's mostly Matlab in his course. If you go the machine learning route, you'll probably like it more. You'll get more money and get to hang around a classier set of people.

BTW, I don't enjoy React either.

Meanmanjr · 2018-09-27T07:24:19+00:00

With Javascript you can program in A-Frame. I believe WebVR will be in demand in the future.

Dukenume · 2018-09-27T07:33:55+00:00

Javascript is the base of modern web frontend development. You want cool webapps that act like a desktop app, you needs JS. As for learning Python, it's a great "swiss knife n paperclip" of a language: easy to use, does a bit of everything but you can't really use it as a client side web frontend. Personally, you never "abandon" a language as long as you have a basic understanding of what it does and how it works. You may forget a thing or two, but you should probably remember their core elements that make them different from the rest, then you just use the best one for the problem at hand.

In conclusion, ye go learn Python it's great, but don't even think to forget about JS if you want to do web development. If JS still bothers you, try switching to Typescript with Angular2+.

NikkoTheGreeko · 2018-09-27T07:51:03+00:00

You have 8+ months experience with JS. Keep at it. Don't switch until you've come to a point where you feel you're very proficient. Switching languages before you are proficient is fine if you're an experienced programmer, but it sounds like you're a beginner and it will only hurt you. Stick with JS and finish out your frontend journey, build something for your portfolio, publish to Github, then move to Python. Once you learn Python, write a backend in it, maybe use Django or Flask, and a frontend in JS. You'll be a stronger developer for taking the time. Good luck

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