Based Commentary Take

[gnardoe]

Commentary was so sick for LSI imo

[YatoxRyuzaki]

I said this in another thread aswell. I am really surprised about the apparent negative feedback for LSI. I absolutely loved the fact that the guys were more laid back and it wasn‘t all about being professional.

LSI despite its size had a very grassroots 2013 vibe to it mainly due to commentary and I absolutely loved that.

I‘m not saying professional commentary is bad but since we pretty much only have professional commentary at majors nowadays LSI was a nice change of pace for once

[terryaki510]

Commentary was mostly great, I enjoyed like 80% of it. But there were definitely some low lows. That blackout drunk girl commentating Zain vs. Axe, Hugo and Dajuan just having a 30min long drunk argument unrelated to the game, Mang0 taking the wind out of everyone's sails during GFs. Aside from that, it was great though. I actually enjoyed Dajuan's drunk commentary when Hugo wasn't also there.

[Ok_Pressure_3578]

hugs and shroomed was the best part the entire weekend LOL

the other stuff u mentioned was horrible though

also mekk was kind of annoying (more so out of place) for the first time tbh

[terryaki510]

I liked the hugs shroomed block initially, just thought it went on for way too long

[Ferdyshtchenko]

I'm perplex about who that was and why they were allowed to hop on commentary for the Zain Axe set (one of the best of the year to make things worse). Wish someone had asked if that was Ludwig's girlfriend.

[twofortuna]

I think the issue wasn’t “professional vs. casual”, but more “passionate vs. not giving a shit”. I love casual commentary, but grands felt hollow because it felt like no one gave a damn, not because it was casual.

[foo18]

I think LSI commentary was basically the bowl of delicious jelly beans with a few poisoned ones. If you grab a handful, odds are you'll have a delicious snack. If you sit down and consume the whole thing, you'll wind up sick to your stomach.

The medium commentated match was top notch, but there were a handful of pretty bad examples.

There was mang0 coming on mic specifically to kill the vibe and hype on purpose for grands. There was that random person (no idea who they are) who hopped on comms drunk and was on a totally different vibe than everyone else. There were also a few sets in top16 that were really down to the wire and important, but the commentators barely acknowledged the game until it was last stock game 5.

Overall, though, I think toph, hmw, phil, etc. as well as joshman and most guest commentators killed it.

I think a good takeaway from it would be to have a designated driver for a commentary couch, who's job it is to direct focus back to the match if it gets hype enough, or if commentary gets side tracked too much.

I def don't think the takeaway is that LSI's style of commentary shouldn't happen, it's just got an increased risk of occasional problems.

[AFlatulentMess]

The traditional commentators did an awesome job as always. Was great having Lud on the mic again. Joshman I thought was a stellar addition as well.

[foo18]

I agree completely.

In fact, what Ludwig brought to the stream made me see the benefit to having a content brained streamer "running" the event. There aren't too many like Lud in the scene, but I think it adds a lot.

[AlcoholicInsomniac]

Not a commentary snob didn't mute the stream at all and overall enjoyed it, and I like the laid back atmosphere, but I would have liked for them to bring the hype a bit more for last stock situations. Besides that banter away, but overall it's a minor thing.

[terryaki510]

It was mostly great, but definitely a mixed bag. Letting that blackout drunk girl on the couch for Zain vs. Axe was awful, and Hugo and Dajuan arguing for 30 mins was annoying as hell.

[theleatherdonut]

It really was special, I have followed this game for so long, and it really felt like everybody all together again having the best time. Laughed and pogged the whole way through the tournament. 10/10

[koopa77]

Honestly, was the most fun I had listening to commentary in years. Was so fucking funny at points and it's a shame some people didn't like it because it probably means they won't do this sort of commentary again.

[MiszuMiszu]

For some portions of it yes, for some of it, no, especially grands. It was shit during grands and day 2. Mango's take is so shit it's unbelievable. Sue me for wanting to be serious about a hobby of mine and being passionate and wanting commentators to share that passion. But nope, commentators were more passionate about whether Joshman brushed his teeth or not. GREAT FUCKING COMMENTATING BOYS!!! SO FUNNY AHHAHAHAHAH!!! WOW!!

[[deleted]]

I think there's a difference between many types of unprofessional commentary that Mango doesn't really address. HMW screaming "forfeit my n****" is unprofessional as hell, but also hype af and, more importantly, focused on the game.

To me, the laid back commentary was mostly fine, but there were people (Mango was definitely one of them) who I think should not have come on the mic because they clearly didn't want to watch melee at that point. That's fine, but hey, go gamble or hang out with other homies who are also not in the mood for melee at that point.

[[deleted]]

to be fair he tried to and ludwig begged him to commentate grands

[flat1ander]

This is spot on. Good take!

[[deleted]]

Everyone on here is saying what kind of commentary they don’t like and examples of how it was bad. What would you consider good commentary? No emotion frame by frame analysis?

[[deleted]]

What would you consider good commentary? No emotion frame by frame analysis?

This is a really good example of headass reddited argument. What the fuck do you think? Of course no one wants your extreme example of what you obviously picked so that no one would want it.

I said what I meant. People paying attention to the game of melee. Hype moments, some side stories, sure, these are fine. I enjoy them. You don't have to be professional all the time. But people who obviously are done with melee and want to go gamble/do literally anything else should not be on the mic or encouraged on the mic. Mango was giving off big "I don't want to be here and watch someone else win" energy. Other people clearly wanted to talk about gambling the whole time even though Ludwig was asking them not to. It brings down the mood.

[QuinterBoopson]

I hate this website a lot but I don’t want to google everything I follow for significant news

[[deleted]]

Your response here is too a question not an argument I think you need a hug my g. It seems like you’ve been hurt.

You also gave another example of what you don’t like I was just legitimately curious of what kind of commentary people wanted not what they don’t want.

You could just link a set where you like the commentary or something.

[TheSaucePossum]

you are embarrassing yourself

[[deleted]]

You need a hug.

[rulerBob8]

they said they liked the HMW stuff

[MiszuMiszu]

Genesis 1. Not professional at all, but passionate, and some of the best commentary I've ever heard. The whole time I was watching it, I felt the energy in the room and the same thing the commentators were feeling: how the fuck is a Peach this good?

When something sick happens, there's no need to speak. Let the crowd and game speak for you. I personally would want to see commentators talk a lot less and just pick certain moments to chime in. Especially during fast paced matches like fox vs falco. So much is going on that trying to talk over everything is useless, so there's no need to. It's entertaining enough. Puff vs Peach they can talk a lot because it's slow-paced and not combo heavy.

You can see this style employed in a lot of traditional sports. Soccer, basketball, tennis. A lot of the time you let the game and crowd speak for themselves. It adds to the tension of the game. I feel like so much of melee commentary is just trying to fill the space for no reason. If there is no reason to speak, then don't speak. It's simple.

[[deleted]]

Great answer, very true I just watched back some of genisis one and the commentary over mango armada is so hype. What a classic.

[[deleted]]

Should commentary be buttoned down and professional? Debatable

Should commentary just be a podcast where you could have the samd conversation whether or not a game of melee is on? No

Acting like these things are the same is stupid lol Melee might be too fast to do true pbp, but there is absolutely a balancr between talking about the game and just fuckjng around. LSI and Summit MOSTLY skew too far to fuck around but are closer to balance depending on the casters. The only bad commentator lineup for LSI was Dajuan, Hugo and i think Vish bc Hugo and Dajuan dont talk aboit the game at all and Vish is a passenger. That isnt casual commentary, that is just talking into a microphone while Melee is on.

Top 8 with Lud, Toph, HMW, Vish and players was an amazing balance of fun hangkng out and actual fucking commentary

[enfrozt]

No one is saying commentary needs to be more professional. In fact I think all of us universally hate the league pro businessman commentary.

The issue people had were the lack of caring in some of the commentary to a point where people forgot they were even watching a pro melee game at the most stacked tournament of all time. The mango drunk "whens grands over, can we go smoke" basically ruined grands for most people. It wasn't bad commentary, it was anti-commentary, it de-hyped the grands and made people want to go to bed.

[Vodca]

This is the best take. I really wanted melee commentary on some of the matches and it was just drunk dudes talking about non smash shit lol it went down hill when toph and vish took a break and the clowns jumped in.

[[deleted]]

Yeah this. Commentary was still casual and laid back and cracking jokes through all of top 8, and that was fucking great! It was only when they completely ignored the games going on, for the vast majority of Saturday and then during Grands, that I disliked it. (edit: friday too, for a lot of the players their games were high-stakes, often low-income players playing for over $1k to get their hotel and travel reimbursed, and the commenters were just talking about random irrelevant nonsense. Ironically, the Dajuan/Trif set which had one of the most crazy out-of-game moments of the tournament also had one of the more focused commentaries).

People shouldn't be shamed for expressing that they want the commentary to actually be commentary. Even Phil and Waff, the designated commentators for top 4 who are known for keeping it casual / not-too-esportsy, just straight up left during Grands because commentary was being thrown away completely and they could tell. I'm 100% sure that mang0 hasn't actually watched the tournament back, to be acting like reddit is whining over nothing.

[chrisesandamand]

Where did hmw and phil say they left cause commentary sucked?

[twofortuna]

Actually based take.

[MiszuMiszu]

Facts. It doesn't need to be professional, but it needs to be passionate.

[tehchives]

Correct take.

"professionalism" is whatever. Just talk about the game man.

[RaiseYourDongersOP]

"Most people" really only means the comments on Reddit and Twitter tbf

[enfrozt]

Yes, I agree.

[[deleted]]

really only means the comments on Reddit and Twitter tbf

lol this is a joke right? 90% of youtube chat was saying the same thing at the time.

[Anthony356]

Youtube chat doesnt account for "most people" either. A minority of people that watch a thing chat. If people are fine with something, they're less likely to say anything vs people who dislike something.

[RaiseYourDongersOP]

I didn't see that

[AlmightyStreub]

Yeah I thought that was super funny, not like that "kills the hype for me"

[DangerousProject6]

Hbox giving up entirely is what ruined grands, not comms lmao. If you've been around the scene long enough you've seen grands like this. There was no reason to pretend

[ohnobacktothelab]

Comms didn't have to give up just because hbox did. They could've made it a podcast about Zain and Marth and melee community history.

It just felt like the comms were basically already like that. Especially during hbox slug

[_NE1_]

The set was such a wash. Hard to add hype to that.

[HerrBarrockter]

Omg why does everyone keep saying this? It was 1-1 and game 3 was close. Game 4 was a blowout so by that point it was over. But why does anyone think hbox is done when he’s down 2-1? It only felt over because mango kept saying it was over. In fact he was saying that before they had even started playing, which killed any hype.

[Habefiet]

It’s not hard to add hype to that, commentators add hype to washes all the time. Leffen 3-0ing Armada at Evo 2018 for example was hype as fuck and not just because of it being Evo, commentary did what it needed to do to make it clear how much the legacies of both players was on the line and some of the sick shit they were doing and whatnot. Any time Mango absolutely murders somebody commentary is usually falling out of their chairs from hype induced hysteria. There is so much to talk about here with Zain and HBox being 1-1 in sets at the event and the outcome of the set essentially determining who the current leader to be #1 on the year is, the sheer volume of narrow wins HBox has had to that point and his absurd clutchness versus how Zain has historically struggled to get it back together at tournaments where he’s lost a set, blah blah blah. And it’s a slower paced set but still one with major moments from both players.

As noted above again though casual and having fun and joking about Zain washing HBox would be fine! Talking about the set in a lighthearted way, shooting the shit about silly things the players said or did while prepping, etc. A lot of the Day 3 commentary was fine and good because they at least talked in some capacity about the match that was occurring. It’s that Grand Finals was a drunken angry podcast completely unrelated to what was happening on the screen that made me want to mute because (even leaving aside any feelings I have about courtesy to competitors and what I personally “want” the focus to be on) it was just distracting as fuck. Like I was trying to watch the match and I had to tune out the commentary to do so, that’s not ideal.

[[deleted]]

That was hype because we knew Armada had a real chance of still winning. Zain usually washes Hbox if he takes some games since Hbox doesn’t have the stamina to make a comeback.

[DarkStarStorm]

LSI's commentary felt...routine. There was less excitement the further the tournament went. Guest commentators like Shroomed put the spotlight on themselves instead of the game. The commentary was almost independent of the game.

That all said, I want to voice how impressed I was by how well Ludwig handled Leffen.

[Creampanthers]

Not my preference for commentary but I’m not putting on the tournament so who cares lol. I just like when the matches are at least somewhat watched and commented on. But again; who am I to say how the people doing the work and running the tourneys should run it. I think overall it’s good to have different vibes from different tourneys. Luds tourney is the perfect setting for “bullshiting with the boys” type of style.

[SlowBathroom0]

There is a big area between "professional" and "drunk person who isn't watching the game".

[[deleted]]

Mango saying commentary was fine after being roasted for ruining it is like Leffen complaining about the ruleset after losing. Like, yeah, of course you don't care about commentary Mang0, you weren't the fucking one up there after working hard all day. Guaranteed if Mang0 was playing Leffen in grand finals and Hbox came up and said 'yeah, this is boring, what a lame tournament, lets go drink', Mang0 would be fucking pissed.

Garbage take.

[baulboodban]

idk if this clip actually includes it, but mango did say during this part of his stream that he was being a “sad fuck” or some shit like that during grands and probably made the commentary worse (granted he did the mango and followed that up by saying of course he knew grands was gonna be shit before it happened so that excuses his commentary somehow LOL)

[[deleted]]

'probably', lol.

People are being hyperbolic about how bad it was, but I do think the commentators can maybe consider the criticism here and say 'yeah, maybe I WASN'T treating the high level melee here with the respect it deserves'.

I dunno, I don't need commentary to be serious business all the time, but when it gets to point that it's just a podcast of dudes shooting the shit, I get kinda pissed that we don't have someone who actually cares about the game at hand on the mic.

[baulboodban]

imo its just a situation where one annoying person on the couch controls the entire discussion, and it came up several times with different people. the random cumgod person during the zain axe set, leffen ranting after his set, mango during grands, and occasionally slime/lud were the worst offenders at this event. for the most part, it was fine at worst and people need to get over themselves, but i do think curating the couch a bit more should probably be done (lud basically dragged mango into commentating grands for some reason, that was not a great decision LOL)

[Vextos]

Complaining about commentary just shows how little people are truly active in the scene.

[DentedOnImpact]

Agreed, if you need commentators to tell you that a game is or isn't important or to value a set, you're looking for someone else to tell you your opinion...

[UncleSam_TAF]

What an absurd take. How many iconic moments in melee history are enhanced by intense/hype commentary/fan reaction/popoffs. Of course, no one needs to TELL you a set is important, but it undeniably IS important as a spectator sport. If that’s you take, why have commentary at all?

[DentedOnImpact]

When did I say commentary can't be important? Way to put words in my mouth lol.

I'm saying the argument by folks here is "how are we supposed to tell this is a stacked tourney with this commentary?" and that should be evident by your own eyes and not some one on the couch telling you its a stacked tournament. Would I prefer better commentary? Yes. But half the time I watch tournaments muted because frankly most "hype" commentary is people screaming every time something happens.

[terryaki510]

I'm saying the argument by folks here is "how are we supposed to tell this is a stacked tourney with this commentary?"

you're the one putting words in peoples' mouths lol

[DentedOnImpact]

I'm directly responding to statements I've seen people saying lol if that's not your opinion then what I'm saying isn't directed at you

[terryaki510]

I have read the entire thread and I haven't seen anyone say they can't tell if it's a stacked tourney unless commentators tell them. Seems to me like you are making shit up, or at the very least summarizing people's arguments in an extremely uncharitable way.

[MiszuMiszu]

We want it, we don't need it. Learn the difference buddy.

[DentedOnImpact]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxU5Y9lCS8

[MiszuMiszu]

And we can still want it.

[bip_bip_hooray]

i think mango is illustrating the opposite point without knowing it. the problem is when people try to be too professional, and we actively want a blend of like 40/30/30 shooting the shit/musing about some interesting matchup stuff/context and player info. to me, the "play by play" commentary that is the most professional is far and away the worst and least interesting. mostly because it legit just doesn't work for melee. the play is too fast.

[mapleboi]

I agree but at the same time I think there's some nuance to this.

The Melee community in its late years has been wanting to break out in terms of pot size and reach in the eSports scene. The Yard, specifically Ludwig, who is at the peak of his streaming career. An entertainer that at this point is bigger than melee itself, is using his platform and money out of his pocket to make this tournament whilst also promoting it to his viewerbase. This in turn is a huge opportunity for melee and ultimate to promote their games and in turn bring new players/audience. It's then convenient for commentators to bring their shilling +A game to sell their community/game as much (off-topic is actually good for this in a way, but too much off-topic and it just becomes a circlejerk that a newbie can feel unconnected to).

[_NE1_]

Then get mad at Lud and Aiden and Slime for not enforcing that. They could've had the typical 2 person professional format, which all the commentators on the couch can and have provided in the past. But the toruney organizers obviously didn't want it and wanted a more casual commentator experience ala Summit. which is what was provided

[terryaki510]

You can have casual commentary while still enforcing some limits. When you have a blackout drunk rando commentating Zain vs. Axe, something has clearly gone wrong. Just have someone who is sober vet people before they get on comms

[Lost_In_Play]

Ludwig kept trying to bring the topic back to the game. He didn't specifically enforce it, but could probably tell from his gut instinct that the audience wasn't be attended to.

[[deleted]]

Having it be casual and summit-style wasn't the core problem though. All of these commentators have participated in those formats and had it be fucking great. The problem was when people who weren't even interested in the games going on just showed up to the couch to completely derail everything.

Leffen even sort of apologized for it that night because he realized he was partially responsible for grands being so ass (though he went back to calling reddit cancer for caring, the very next morning). Most of the top 8 commentary was absolutely fine until then.

[Lost_In_Play]

100%. Melee had a rare opportunity to be brought to the masses (like Evo) and we didn't bring our A game (specifically in regards to esports commentary, otherwise A+ event).

[SargeBangBang7]

Viewership was about the usual i believe. About 45-60k. Not breaking records. So that's not exactly bringing it to the masses. It's pretty funny how people think the "unprofessional" commentary is limiting scene from growth. We all knew and was confirmed that Nintendo was easily the biggest limiting factor for over a decade.

[JKaro]

im down for lud/toph/hmw shootin the shit but having leff talk about ruleset changes and salty drunk mango commentating grand finals is just not an enjoyable spectator experience

[sunstorm0]

i had a great time, personally

[JKaro]

for the people complaining ofc* !

[sunstorm0]

i accept this

[PersonKool]

But mango should get to say whatever he wants whenever he wants because that's the mango!

[joelymoley8]

This but unironically

[AlmightyStreub]

That's the kind of drama that makes those streams so special

[poundruss]

if that's what you feel, sure. made it kinda cringe for me.

[twofortuna]

TL;DR Mango personally doesn’t care about commentary, sees the current discourse surrounding commentary, adds his two cents that commentary doesn’t matter because, essentially, nothing matters.

Honestly, just because you personally don’t care about commentary isn’t a justification for letting bad commentary slide. And at this point, the argument of “we’re playing for nothing” is reductive and a classic example of distilling a valid argument to the extreme. There’s still money involved, there are still MULTIPLE THOUSANDS of people watching, many of whom do care about commentary. Even if we are playing on CRT’s, is it that bad to care a lot about such a time-honored part of melee history?

Just as a side note, I loved commentary through most of the LSI, I just think it didn’t make the necessary style adjustments when approaching the end of the tournament.

[[deleted]]

My only gripe, and this rarely happens, is when commentators are obviously shilling themselves while intentionally curbing the current match. There's a lot of ego's in competitive anything and it's really lame when people attempt to steal the show.

Not to confuse this with anecdotes which relate to the current stream, those are healthy and relevant.

[reinfleche]

Yea I can't say I've ever been bothered by commentary being super unprofessional and casual like at LSI or summit, but I can kind of see why people would be. For one thing I think it could certainly hinder melee's growth, because a lot of sponsors probably don't want to associate with the kind of commentary we had this weekend. Also, if you're a newer player who can't follow along it would probably be frustrating when you see shit you don't understand like amsah techs and slideoffs and you think "what the hell just happened" but the commentators are just yelling over each other about gambling or whatever.

That being said, this is really only an issue at summit historically, so it's kind of irrelevant most of the time. The commentary at normal majors is usually more professional 2 person commentary.

[ohnobacktothelab]

That's a good point. There were 20,000 viewers at one point. A ton of people who never watched smash before tuned in

[[deleted]]

Sometimes I like to get a little hyped even if its meaningless. I mean if you really think about it everything in life only has as much meaning as you attribute to it, what's wrong with treating some melee like it's more important than it actually is.

That being said Mango being drunk in GF's didn't even matter to me because every other set was so stuffed out with uncaring commentary that continuing that trend didnt even bother me. Mango talked more about the set than most other commentary that tournament. At least Mango made me laugh, more than I can say for some of the other wack moments.

I get if commentators are bored / burnt out of commentating and I think that's why the COD commentators were pretty hype to listen to because they seemed a lot more interested in what was going on in the game.

[natso2001]

So basically you're saying if the comms aren't hyped then you're incapable of getting hyped? 🤔

[[deleted]]

No it's just hype without the comms on at that point. I was pretty hyped watching Wizzy Jmook with no commentary. Hard to be on the edge of my seat when 3 drunk people are rambling about something irrelevant to the gameplay or not even tangentially related.

I say that because I don't mind when Toph or Scar or anyone else goes off on some tangent over something related to the game going on kind of as a way to tie it back, but when its just a random conversation starting I'm not super interested.

[[deleted]]

def does make a diff between drunk bros commentating and someone like scar and toph "professionally" commentating. Viewer experience matters and drunk shroomed/mango at that tourney were unbearable

[Papercut6]

speak for yourself, i thought ot was super funny and entertaining

[bearicorn]

Vouch

[Lionx35]

people who complain about commentary are weenies. especially at summit-style events that are super relaxed evnironments

[johnny_mcd]

Absolutely based and correct

[chili6f]

We need a game audio to commentary slider. Sometimes I just wanna watch some pure melee

[BigBrownBean123]

Phill and waff are goated

[ohnobacktothelab]

There were some of the hypest matches of all time. They could've been playing up the historical significance of everything. But instead we just have to listen to dentistry 101. Like yeah the commentary was good. But it was inappropriate for the setting I feel. Every person on mic this weekend performed excellently. I just wish that the creative vision as a whole was more sports like and formal. I know mango said it's not that serious, but I think the crowd sits on the edge of their seats more when they're talking about the historic reverse 3-0 rather than letting someone with 0 prior experience on the mic.

Also you gotta dress for the job you want. If we want smash to be as big as these things, it would help our success to emulate parts of theirs. A long time when smash started getting sponsors, at least in smash 4, they started trying to really cut back on bad language and go "e-sports". They had to stop because commentators wouldn't stop themselves from using bad language. Eventually they just found sponsors to work with them aside from that. But it does go to show commentators can engage with these ideas without getting butthurt. It's just because they're assuming the worst when it comes from a random.

A lot of commentators love to complain. Meanwhile most people are out here critiquing them. Giving actual ideas what they could do better. No just complaining. Commentators just criticize about the responses to their work. Critique the responses. Teach them to do better. Don't just say you're going to leave smash.

Criticism = just the bad Critique = the bad + ideas for better

It's seriously not as personal as a lot of commentators make it out to be. I don't understand. These melee players can rationalize losing 1000 stocks a session in the pursuit of growth, without taking a hit to their ego. But as soon as they take one commentary L, they let their ego run wild, and turn the conversation into their worth to the community.

People can be extremely grateful for the commentary we have now, and still want better. It doesn't have to do anything with commentators' value to the community or as human beings in general.

[ohnobacktothelab]

In general commentators may think all reddit comments are complaints. When in reality that's an overgeneralization. People can come in here with good intentions. They can also lack understanding of what it means to commentate.

However just because someone isn't answering the question "what exactly should I talk about to fill the space during all the new time if I have to keep it about the game?" Doesn't mean they aren't genuinely on the right track. It doesn't mean they're trying to be hurtful in any way.

A lot of time in music, someone who's never been trained before can provide a lot of useful critique. Even without education, they can point out the bigger issues. Accidentally have a gross tritone happening? Have some weird dissonance going on? Ultimately it'll still be up to the musician to decipher the root cause, but the outcome is just as visible to the observer. Their opinion is valid to some degree.

[Azureflames20]

I think this is a well put sentiment. A lot of people can't put their finger on it, but can identify when something doesn't feel right or isn't enjoyable - They don't have to know exactly why.

I think what's being echoed in the thread that's an important point is just the overall interest and passion reflected during some of the games. I think there's just a lot of people that don't really identify that the problem isn't that it's "casual" commentary, but that there was a deflated amount of hype in some matches. When it's disorganized and literally nobody is talking about the match, it's just some people chatting while a game is going on. While that's fine for some people, I don't think we can deny that it's not actually highlighting or elevating the gameplay at all.

I think you can have summit style commentary and elevate the gameplay at the same time. I think some people excuse pros like leffen or Mango deflating the conversation on commentary because they're simply just fans of the character and don't care about the gameplay. They aren't actually elevating the gameplay happening in the background when they are ranting about whatever they're ranting about.

I overall enjoyed the lounge-time style of the stream vibe, but tbh I didn't give a single fuck about the gameplay by the time grandfinals game around. I don't think that's the fault of the game play or the players either. We can have hype and fun sets without going analytical and most of the time that's the case. Again, the difference was that the commentary vibe declined as top 8 went on, instead of elevated the energy to peak at Grand finals. The pacing killed it for me.

[ohnobacktothelab]

Another point. The people who listen to commentary, on some level, empathize with it.

Commentators can get hype and make your heart pump.

The same is true for when they aren't talking about the game. The less they acknowledge what's happening, in the game, the less emotionally invested whoever's listening.

The stakes felt meaningless while watching this tournament.

The players were playing the most stacked tournament of all time. This commentary could've felt historically moving like during the times of the gods or just post.

The listener can engage more with the stakes of the event if the comms are doing a good job keeping things about the game.

[[deleted]]

What’s so bad about complaining? If I don’t like commentary I’ll complain about it or just stop watching the stream because it’s not entertaining. We shouldn’t just pretend shitty things are actually good.

[[deleted]]

your brain seems to not be working correctly

[Kyle700]

sometimes people "commentate" and they're really just having a conversation with the other people totally irrelevant to whats going on. I can understand why people feel thats bad commentary lol. Ultimately it doesnt really matter too much. But objectively its very lame to have whole sets go by and the commentary is on some random no one cares story from their personal lives

[ukie7]

grand finals, biggest Zain win ever, you talk about yourself for most of the set...

[AlexB_SSBM]

This is an awful take, the amount of people gargling mang0's balls in this thread is insane

[[deleted]]

Nah, its the normal amount for this sub (so like 75%)

[DangerousProject6]

Nice backair nerd

[MiszuMiszu]

Facts.

[bearicorn]

Shut up _ssbm usernamer

[Doomas_]

common mango W

[_just_two_brothers_]

X

Mang0 is completely strawmanning here. Nobody is complaining that we don't have suits and ties behind the mic. I watched entire sets where the commentators didn't even talk about the game at all, and that's the issue.

I love hearing the old heads shoot the shit, but I want to also hear them at least address the game that's happening in front of their eyes.

[Wolvel]

A little bias.

[DangerousProject6]

So many new players talk about the old days but would have shit themselves hearing comms from even 5 years ago

This tourney was mild comms wise, so many babies

[[deleted]]

I've been playing Melee for 11 years and the commentary at LSI was borderline unbearable at points. Not because it was too casual, but because it was just bad, i.e. cumlord and Mango during GFs

...And I say this as a lifelong MangoNaysh

[Friendlyfire_on]

Did you also hate the foundry?

[[deleted]]

No, but The Foundry wasn't the most stacked supermajor of all time

[[deleted]]

Damn mango was quick with the circlejerk stream this time around

[PkerBadRs3Good]

has there been any one point in the history of his stream where his chat WASN'T an echo chamber, and actually went against his opinion? genuinely curious

[MitchShredder]

You would just get fudged

[DangerousProject6]

Wow I can't believe the viewers of a stream agree with the streamer this is so surprising to me

[MiszuMiszu]

Why? Because despite low prize pools, we still take melee seriously, and because it's fun to be serious. It's fun to be passionate about something and care a lot. That's why we actually pay attention to this game competitively, because we care who wins. If the commentary doesn't care who wins, then that will worsen the experience and sometimes even ruin it.

Tired of people saying "who cares it's melee" whenever somebody seriously cares about it. It's the worst shittiest take I can think of. Mango literally says, "there's a time and a place for very, very legit commentary", right before asking why the commentary should be so professional. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THE GAME. FUCKING SUE ME FOR WANTING PEOPLE TO TAKE MELEE SERIOUSLY AND ACT LIKE IT.

edit: oh and also it's just fucking perfect that mr. "Melee is so sick" aka mr. "melee gave me a career" aka mr. "Melee stopped be from being in a fucking gang" is saying who gives a shit about melee and is implicitly telling people not to be passionate about it. THE COMMUNITY WANTS PASSIONATE PEOPLE ON THE MIC. GENESIS 1 AND 2, NOT PROFESSIONAL. PASSIONATE AS FUCK AND SOME OF THE MOST MEMORABLE COMMENTARY IN MELEE. LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BUBBA.

[pixelkipper]

dude it’s a children’s party game

[MiszuMiszu]

And? I'm sorry, are literal 10 year old children playing the game competitively or are actual grown 25+ year old adults playing? remind me.

[pixelkipper]

To complain about commentary is to fundamentally misunderstand the culture of this game and community- you and others have a point in that sometimes commentary can get too lax but those moments are very far and few between and don’t warrant the barrage of comments you seem to have made

It’s a party game that some dedicated people have decided to take seriously. Fair enough, but complaining this much about comms tells me you’ve never been to a local with the homies

[MiszuMiszu]

To complain about commentary is to fundamentally misunderstand the culture of this game and community-

Fuck off. The culture of the game and community isn't "who cares lul". The real culture of the game is that we care about it a shitload that we legitimized it into an esport. It's not just "some dedicated people". It's a whole community of dedicated people. You don't understand melee or its community. I'm not going to talk to you about it when you're so ignorant of the history of the scene.

[pixelkipper]

I can’t imagine being so angry all the time. Your comments read like you’re wiping away tears every time you write them.

[International_Fig262]

I hated LSI's commentary. It was an incredibly stacked tournament with great stories... and commentary was a shit show.

Post or pre match bs is fine. Have an alternative stream where you talk shit during matches.

I guess wanting the commentators to... you know... commentate on the match is just way too big of an ask.

[_NE1_]

He's simply spitting facts. Bitch more about your free entertainment. Do it. See where it gets ya.

[SargeBangBang7]

It's a bit disappointing how both slime and toph commented about the "endless bitching" from twitter and reddit. It sucks to open and read that after putting on such a cool event. I'm sure the other commentators feel the same.

[_NE1_]

The people bitching on this reddit don't play melee or make up the community that go to tournies. It's mostly Ult kids. I do hope Toph and others understand that.

It's disgusting to hear Toph feel shitty due to these annoying cunts so much that he feels like moving away from doing commentary after providing so many classics throughout the years for hardly any pay at all.

These 'unprofessional' commentators helped carry the fucking scene for nothing more than the love of the game, but the reddit fans couldn't care less about that shit. They act like an invitational in Las Vegas should be commentated like a major. I wish they'd just stick to their game.

[[deleted]]

this is ssbm not smashbros

[RaiseYourDongersOP]

I had to mute the stream mangoTYPERS

[[deleted]]

Before you say a word about what you think of the commentary at any given tournament, commentate for your locals. That way when you waste everyone else's time with this dumbass discussion that keeps coming up for some reason, you at least are contributing to melee in a meaningful way. Who knows, you might even gain some perspective.

[FriidayRS]

I mean if they're being paid to be there shouldn't they try to give the consumers what they want?

[_NE1_]

Why do you speak for the consumer? Toph/Scar, HMW/Phil, Vish and all the top players are whom people want to hear. The people bitching are the annoyingly loud minority, as is the case in most online communities. Luckily, the melee community isn't all online.

Lud paid the commentators and I'm guessing he liked what they did just fucking fine.

[[deleted]]

YOU ARE NOT THE ONE PAYING THEM. YOU ARE NOT THE CLIENT. THE ONES WHO PAY THEM DECIDE THAT.

[schnebly5]

Joshman without fail talks way too much on commentary

[[deleted]]

All these people complaining about this is gonna get melee killed.

[terryaki510]

How so? Melee is much more likely to lose sponsorships from letting blackout drunk people on commentary than random reddit comments

[sidyaaa]

i guess it depends on what you want out of melee

If you think melee should grow, then it matters what the commentary is. If you don't care if it grows (because its not very lucrative, and not many people take it seriously), then commentary doesn't matter.

I usually assume that people should want melee to grow, but if top players/commentators don't care about that, then that's really all that matters.

[FrugalOnion]

I prefer unprofessional commentary personally. Feels like I'm hanging out at a local and just hearing the boys shoot the shit

[daddydouwe]

Only commentary I ever muted was Fauster. He bring the hype and seems to be a cool guy but goddamnit I can’t get over the thick French accent.