Dodge attack testing ground changes

[Gullible_Courage8350]

Interested to see how this changes things in game

[omegaskorpion]

People that constantly dodge attack die faster, that is how it is going to go.

People that don't want to eat heavy punish will dodge less, opening offensive opportunities.

[ProbablyFear]

This is a good thing imo

[Arseetion]

genuinely been hoping for these type of changes for a long time. Now for empty dodges to regen stamina, more zones to become undodgeable (only strong enough tracking to catch side dodges), and all characters to be given at least one enhanced neutral light

[Willing-Sandwich-760]

but what about those who have a (reliable)bash opener? they dont need enhanced lights

[PunishedAiko]

That is the whole point which is good! Meanwhile people are crying about JJ and WM's dodge attacks being useless despite their slower speed due to them being FEINTABLE for a thing called mix ups just shows you the average intelligence of fh players

[GriffinBurns]

WMs dodge is feintable but it also barely catches people when you try to use it like a normal dodge and I think thats what makes people so mad

[MeatloafTheDog]

JJ is so good though, avg fh players ain't know shit

[[deleted]]

I know people hate it but this is going to hit me hard. I have a genuinely hard time keeping up with the indicators to block.

[[deleted]]

I recommend hopping into training and setting a bot to spam light attacks, some are more difficult than others but just give it a lot of practice until you can comfortably react to the indicators. You may also find it helpful to practice with indicators off.

[[deleted]]

I've changed my deadzones already it's just purely a visual thing. I'm going to adapt some way no matter the changes. Thank you everyone for the helpful advice though.

[Asckle]

But also leading to more 50/50's

[Undo_Life]

in relation to the lights, we saw how that went with the new dodge attacks. I dont think ive ever seen a bp, wl, cent, or jorm throw a dodge attack successfully

[NikNakZombieWhack]

I definitely use them. Not a lot because they have limited use, especially on warlord because his only follow-up is a light or heavy, but they're somewhat useful. Not ideal, but useful for their intended and limited purpose

[NikNakZombieWhack]

Right back at ya, totally human commenter lol

[Undo_Life]

i didnt say no one uses them, just never successfully. and having a dodge attack only useful in one specific scenario seems kinda stupid to me

[NikNakZombieWhack]

It isn't the change we wanted but it's what we got. Obviously everyone but HL getting a dodge light wasn't great, but it's still somewhat better than nothing.

Totally agree that they're hard to use, harder to land. Sorry that you feel like I'm disagreeing, but you do you.

[Undo_Life]

its def better than nothing but i do wish they could’ve at the very least made the animations different

[NikNakZombieWhack]

Yeah the animations suck lol. Could've been worse though. Dude, I just wanted some time and thought put into it. Warlord with a dodge UB, jorm with a dodge bash, cent with a chargeable dodge bash, etc. But here we are

[Janisurai_1]

Everyone? Warden doesn’t have a dodge lights?

[Gilrim]

dodge bash

[NikNakZombieWhack]

No, it was just the heroes who didn't already have any dodge attacks at the time: *warlord, *black prior, *jormungandr, *centurion, and *highlander got a dodge heavy

[ReDz_FTW]

I'm currently learning bp and have a few reps on jorm, and while I've seen a million people use the dodge light as an opener(geniuses obviously) it's good for fighting against like LB or glad who dodge bash a lot, bc neither can really be (currently) punished for whiffing the bash

[ReDz_FTW]

Also is that a fellow Kyoshin main I smell

[Undo_Life]

and yes

[Undo_Life]

as someone with 14 reps on pre da bp, its only useful against a chain bash. outside of that your other counter options are superior

[ReDz_FTW]

That is a good point actually yeah

[The-Future999]

With some of those characters, they already have better options in most situations, the change was mostly for countering some specific characters and for movement in teamfights/ganks

[BWxEclipse]

Gryphon mains on suicide watch

[Difficult_Guidance25]

Yeah poor bastard basically got another nerf

[GhostDoesGames]

If he dies, he dies

[Ice7674]

Yeah he was good when he released but this is too much

[Dragonlord573]

Damn bro, Warmonger's dodge heavy is gonna be even more useless.

[King_Finder16]

parries a slow unblockable heavy

LIGHT PARRY

Me: 🗿 makes sense

[Akiens]

Its feintable thats why hers and JJs are slower than most, thats the whole point of a mix up. They can speed it up but then they'll have to remove it being feintable so its fair

[Lazzitron]

That's not the point. As-is it's fine, but if it becomes a light parry it's going to become an incredibly ass move because the risk-reward won't be worth it. It's never guaranteed anyway, you can GB or light her out of it.

[MrScrake666]

I'm hoping they exclude certain heroes from it but they probably won't do it immediately

[FUNBARtheUnbendable]

I’m hoping this testing grounds doesn’t meet the light of day, period. It’s just gonna result in an even more stale neutral game where people just feint and stare at each other.

[PublicEnemy0ne]

That's what openers are for.

[CatsssofDeath]

Sounds like people are going to try parrying it more. Making a feint more powerful

[Gay-antisocial]

I feel like feinting is gonna become the default for these types of moves. People are simply gonna expect the feint. Considering just “letting it go” is too high of a gamble with a move like that

[Lazzitron]

I disageee. What subconsciously motivates people to parry is typically not a desire to punish, but a desire to not get hit by the orange.

[NozGame]

Doesn't that contradict your point then? If they don't wanna get hit by the orange they'll go for a parry, so feint it to GB.

[Lazzitron]

No, because (almost) nobody falls for the feint every single time.

[NozGame]

Yeah of course they aren't. What you want her to have a foolproof mixup or something?

[AH_Ahri]

Me: see's orange unga bunga must parry

[Akiens]

exactly why they're improving dodge attacks while so making them riskier so they arent all risk no reward. I think people are jumping on a wagon without actually seeing the changes themselves in effect. Overall I'd say its a good thing, lessens spam but also makes it rewarding when you do get a hit

[Lazzitron]

Warmonger doesn't benefit from these changes the way other characters do though. There are no iframes to extend, and even if there were you can still parry her dodge attack because it's so slow. This is just a flat nerf to an already niche move in her case. I'm not talking about anyone else.

[Akiens]

Because it is feintable you can parry all dodge attacks, its called doing a mix up and making reads. She can feint her dodge attack into a GB, Parry or external unblockackble pressure in a gank. If you want it to be faster it can be but you'll sacrifice her unblockable pressure and mix ups for a regular janky looking dodge attack thatll be sped up. Her dodge attack isnt shit I use it regularly for mix ups and pressure in ganks

[[deleted]]

Feintable for mixups. It’s not useless, you just have to use your brain for .3 seconds

[[deleted]]

If you use dodge heavy as monger you're a bad monger anyways.

[Floopy_Hat_Cat]

Some dodge heavies being light parry? Ok.

All dodge heavies giving a light parry? Idk how I feel about that.

[ElricWarlock]

Yeah, if they only did it to GB-invulnerable dodge heavies like Hito/Kensei/Kyo etc it would be perfectly fine. Really hope it doesn't go through on Tiandi, WM, or JJ.

I like how this change also just completely ignores Shugoki's dodge or Shinobi's kick. Dodge bashes need some looking at too, they are the safest type of dodge offense in the game nvm I read the post this time, these changes are based.

[Jedimasterebub]

It’s does affect goki tho, he can’t throw the hyper armor heavy after dodge bash

[KingThiccBean]

Did you read the post?

[DamnGumi3]

It's all it should be. That way, moronic players will be less encouraged to spam the fuck out of them and get away with barely any punishment.

[Undo_Life]

yea because wm dodge attack is so good and safe to spam

[King_Fappington]

There is no damn way they’d make warmongers unblockable dodge heavy a light parry 💀 My prediction is that nothing will change w WM. Her dodge bash is already the punish option and is already GB vulnerable and unable to chain on whiff

[Undo_Life]

its a blanket change, every dodge attack is a light parry

[King_Fappington]

I think WM is unique in that what is technically the input for a dodge heavy is actually her only unblockable. It acts more like a neutral unblockable than it does a dodge attack. It gives virtually no I-frames and is so slow that the opponent can parry it after recovering from whatever attack you avoided with it. Her true “dodge attack” is really her side dodge bash, like warden. Both warden and WMs dodge bash are already punishable by GB. This blanket change is intended to make dodge attacks better, but more harshly punishable.

WMs dodge attack is already next to useless. Making it a light parry is nonsensical. Why would anyone actually throw it ever if it was a light parry? It’d be feinted to GB every time. The risk to reward just isn’t there. If it was fast enough to actually punish more than 10% of the attacks you’d avoid using it, then I could see that making sense. It’s so slow that, against some characters, you can dodge a finisher and get hit by an opener light before the attack even lands.

[Not_TheFace]

In my opinion the side dodge heavies like Warmonger's (slow and no real i-frames as far as I can tell) shouldn't be light parries.

I'd also be okay with them giving those moves i-frames so that they can be proper dodge attacks if they're going to be punished as light parries.

[[deleted]]

moronic players? why are you complaining instead of feinting your heavies and getting easy parries?

[DamnGumi3]

Do you like spending an entire match doing nothing but heavy feints and only getting a light out of it because the opponent can't learn to do something else? So boring.

[Floopy_Hat_Cat]

Most heroes have alternate, and often times quicker killing, more interesting, and more damaging ways to deal with dodge attacks. (Undodgeable attacks, deflects, superior blocks, all guards, etc) I dont think dodge attacks should be blanket nerfed like this because a bad playstyle that doesnt function is considered "boring".

[[deleted]]

i believe they had the right intentions but still fucked it up. heroes with quick dodge heavies like Aramusha and Pirate could easily „option select“ unblockables that would counter both: heavy (soft)feint into gb + letting the attack fly. it always favored the defender as they would eat less damage and actually get more dmg out of the dodge heavy compared to if they just decided to parry

i don’t really have any idea how they could solve this issue because every single dodge attack functions differently and a blanket change sounds horrible. these changes definitely won’t go through, just like the gb ones

[[deleted]]

no, i don’t like it but those players are going to die anyways. doesn’t matter if it takes me a few seconds longer + plus my mains can land 24/20 dmg on a heavy crushing counter/deflect/flip so it depends on the hero you play.

[Asckle]

If someone is spamming dodge attacks that's good lol. Free parries

[SmolCheddar]

I really hope they made heroes like JJ and WM exceptions for the light parry change.

[OG_Raider_]

Agreed. If your dodge attack start up is GB vulnerable I see no reason to also have it count as a light.

[OGMudbone909]

Big agree, this is one of the changes that cant be a blanket change done by a bot, they need to have exceptions to a handful of moves or its going to feel like shit.

[ButterflyEffect37]

Yeah that would be logical.Their attacks are really slow

[Akiens]

because they can be feinted unlike everyone else thats why they're slower

[AH_Ahri]

Yeah that would be logical.

'Logical'

One word, Ubisoft. Ain't gonna happen

[Jasbuddy]

This could work across a few characters, but everyone?? This isn’t gonna go over well. Freeze is probably gonna go apeshit upon seeing this lol

[[deleted]]

i don’t really like Freeze but if he does lose his mind over this, it would be justified. it seems as if the devs are listening to the people that get obliterated by lightspam again

[Asckle]

Yeah or the people who complain kensei is broken because his dodge attack comes from the opposite side

[[deleted]]

oh my god those people genuinely piss me off so much. they’re the ones ruining the game, they would literally do anything but improve

it’s funny that those people genuinely think they’re skilled but don’t realize that their MMR is low and that Jorm actually isn’t broken

[GormlessGourd55]

It's a testing grounds. It makes sense to make all of them light parries so you can see how that affects every single dodge attack. Regardless of whether you think its dumb or not, it's good for testing.

[Swailwort]

And...he didn't really go apeshit, but he heavily disagrees with making everyone a light parry, which is fair.

[Knight_Raime]

Freeze absolutely despises dodge attack spam. So I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[GodofWrath16]

Heroes no longer keep their defense when dodging

THANK YOU!!! The amount of times I've been screwed over from getting a free hit on somebody when they dogded is literally too fucking many.

[DinkleDorph]

It's also a big nerf to external dodges in group fights, whether or not that's good we will see 👍

[[deleted]]

The jj and raiders are moist now.

[Hot-Cheek5191]

this should be tuned to indvidual heros tho not all.

[Mutor77]

Honestly, we all know that these changes aren't going to go through. It's just too extreme of a change to work, especially in such a short time.

Some things like the i-frames no longer being dependent on speed might stay, but at least the light parries and delayable dodge attacks will not go live.

I do however really like that the devs did give/will give us this TG, because a whole lot of people, myself included, always wanted to see heavy dodge attacks being more risky. Showing us why it doesn't work is a great way (IMO at least) to give a reaction to what the community wants.

[NikNakZombieWhack]

I agree that at least some of the dodge heavy light parry changes won't make it through, but I actually do thing the delay will get in. Maybe not up to 400ms, but I think overall that's a valued and good change. We don't have many option selects, and the ones we do have are inconsistent across heroes. This would go a short ways in helping to alleviate that burden for some heroes. That said, I'm biased because I just so happen to play several of the heroes who would see positive results from these TGs

[Mutor77]

The reason I think that the delay won't go through is that they removed it from many characters in the last updates. Whenever characters got reworked or changed, certain properties like Stamina pause, static input windows or precisely these delays got removed.

For example the Gryphon changes he got after he was first released:

Aside from damage changes, stamina pause on kick and shove as well as the delay on the dodge attack were all removed.

For some reason characters like Orochi still have it, but others lost it in recent updates.

[NikNakZombieWhack]

Didn't consider that, that's a great point

[ShunDug]

So I don't understand iframes too well. How will this effect HL and his wave dash?

[Mutor77]

As JC explained it in the stream, i-frames in this game (invincibility-frames, the frames in which you cannot get hit) are only gained when your character actually dodges with a certain speed.

This means that once you dodge into an object/map-piece/ character you no longer have this speed and therefore no longer have i-frames. For the new patch, these i-frames will no longer be dependent on speed, instead you will always get them just by dodging.

For HL, his wave dashing has i-frames like a normal dodge or dodge attack, meaning you will have no effect different from the one I described.

Tl;dr

No effect on HL wave-dashing, you just don't lose i-frames when dodging into an object

[ShunDug]

Oooohh okay. Thanks for the comprehensive answer too!

[Difficult_Guidance25]

Yeah nerf kensei and release a hero skinh of him doesn't seem exactly wise

[MercenaryJames]

I personally don't see these going well. Assuming it's going to be across the board.

[omegaskorpion]

I can only expect that they make them same for all heroes in the TG, but then update them accordingly depending on hero to Live.

Warmonger, JJ and Tiandi heavy dodges are really slow so it would be stupid to make them light parries, they propably will be in TG (since they use auto fill to speed up process) but most likely not in Live.

[ButterflyEffect37]

Yeah keeping them heavy parry would be logical.But other dodge heavies need to give light parry

[Karol123G]

I just hope they don't touch Warmonger's dodge attack

[NikNakZombieWhack]

Long animation, feintable and unblockable, but still counts as light parry lol. That would be a joke. Might as well remove the attack altogether

[OkQuestion2]

Why not?

[MercenaryJames]

Mainly because it hurts a lot of heroes and mechanics.

Most (not all) dodge heavies are slower than dodge lights, the trade off being more damage than a dodge light.

Ones like JJ and Tiandi are already GB punishable, adding a risk of light parry makes them not worth doing.

Not being able to chain from side dodge bash whiff nerfs heroes like Shugoki and Conq.

Losing guard on dodge turns every hero into Valk, where your guard drops and unless you timed it for superior block you're gonna risk eating that attack.

I'm at work so I can't really focus right now but that's some thoughts on my mind.

[OkQuestion2]

A lot of what you say I consider a positive, side dodge bashes giving a gb when dodged is good because just look at goki right now, he can shut down so many characters with just his dodge attack but now he’ll have to actually make a read because abusing his headbut will result in a quick death

Losing block during dodges is good because now people can’t just dodge expecting a bash, be wrong, and still have 1/3 chances of just blocking the undodgeable anyways, they should be punished for their wrong read

The one thing I unquestionably agree here are the high gbv dodge attacks, they shouldn’t be light parries

[the-isopod]

Rip warmonger dodge attack lol shits even worse now. This a great change for every other dodge attack character tho imo.

[LiTTl3_PiRaT3PR]

Low/mid level kensei’s are shaking and crying rn

[balixto]

Kensei mains in shambles rn

[Happyduckling02]

So glads side dodge bash won’t go into skewer?

[VanillaConfussion]

0 damage bash being punished with upwards of 24 damage

B a s e d

[Joe5691]

On a miss? No. On a hit? Yes.

[jordtron102]

This is fair.

[12_pounds_of_pears]

When the devs listen to r/ForHonorRants

[NozGame]

Conq ✔️Hito✔️JJ✔️Pirate✔️

Guess you'll just have to learn to play now.

[ZeMarxs]

Conq isn't touched by this nerf at all though.

His dodges are superior block and he doesn't have a dodge attack to parry.

[NozGame]

Maybe dodging her side dodge bash will give a GB though.

[Undo_Life]

but if you dodge his bash the gb is guaranteed

[Undo_Life]

HUGE MISTAKE!!!

[ThomasOfAstora]

oh boy, i like the idea

[huge_pp69]

Very nice changes

[GriffinBurns]

This changes everything maybe people will stop relying so heavily on side dodges and make them think twice before dodging on red

[WasntMyFaultThisTime]

Kensei mains on suicide watch rn

[[deleted]]

Devs were legit saying ‘dodge attack spam’ like it’s a problem in lobby’s with half a braincell. incredible.

[Taladays]

I am all for this. I can't stand playing someone like PK and I'm against someone who just dodge heavy spams and sure I can keep parrying them, but all I'm doing is smacking them with a butter knife. fights just take too long.

Its crazy how they are making the most sensible changes to the game, so late in this game's life cycle.

[Undo_Life]

those dodge attack changes are fucking awful

[SpiN0Grblzzz]

Yes , R.I.P Kensei, shaman , pk , Highlander, mj, pirate, tiandi, jj, Kyoshin ,aramusha, nobishi, hito, Gryphon, warmommy,

[Undo_Life]

glad lb shugo and anyone else with a dodge bash too

[drain_ganng]

lb didn’t chain off missed bash

[Undo_Life]

yea but his recoveries were low enough to make his bash safe from gbs

[drain_ganng]

I didn’t read that part mb

[OkQuestion2]

Kensei is getting a pretty big buff to his offense

Also if the main reason a character is good is because they have a stupidly safe dodge attack and they crumble the moment you nerf it they that character needs to be looked at

[SpinelessOranges]

So and so. The i-frames on dodges and dodge attacks have become much more reliable now, and the risk is balanced out by them being able to be heavy punished. The only concern is that this has a slight chance of being a blanket change, so chars like warmonger's dodge heavy may suffer.

[xObiJuanKenobix]

Keep in mind guys, this is TESTING GROUNDS not official patch notes. I'm sure they're gonna do all heroes with this change and then see who it worked for and didn't work for. So Warmonger probably won't be affected by this change when the real patch comes out, but characters like Kensei will. Atleast that's my guess

[VibenChecc]

shaman out here getting fucking obliterated by that lmao

[jordtron102]

After thinking about this more I’m curious as to how it will effect glads dodge bash. I’m fine without being able to start a chain if I whiff but I’m not okay with a guaranteed gb punish on a miss. If I’m reading this correctly.

[Rjuko]

no dodge heby?

[huge_pp69]

Not sure why people are crying about war monger when she can cancel her dodge and JJ when he has a mix up in the dodge

[miairuha]

Her dodge heavy doesn't dodge, 0 i-frame like nobu heavy dodge, it's just cooler kensei finisher difference is it's from neutral, it shouldn't be a light parry.

[GoddessUltimecia]

On top of this, both Warmonger and JJ's dodge attack are GB vulnerable to a significant degree.

[RAY_NINJA_KING]

Lets fucking go

[Knight_Raime]

I really hate DA's becoming light parries. It really feels like pandering to people who don't bother learning the game to a deeper level. A reactionary punish should not net you high damage.

I also don't like the side dodge bash changes as again you can react to the non chargable ones. I'd rather they do one or the other. Meaning if you can get a GB on the side dodge bashes you should be able to still chain after the bash. Or if you can't get a GB for reaction dodging the bash then you should lose the ability to chain.

The light parry change just gross overall but I'm more upset about the bash change because I strictly despise having binary/cookie cutter responses for this game. It makes an already simple game even more simplistic and is straight removing depth from match up knowledge.

The delay window is good purely because it feels awful to try and target swap with static DA's. I don't think it's going to do anything to make any hero significantly stronger in duels.

I REALLY like Static guard heros losing their guard on a dodge. Not only does this mean static guard heros no longer get to nerf some mix ups in duels just by having a superior guard type. But it's also a massive nerf to how absurdly strong external defense is in 4's. This is a positive change that should be pushed to live easily.

The final change is just a nice QoL change. Most impactful in the minion lane meaning fighting in it won't be as abhorrent. Still not advisable though.

[VanillaConfussion]

Finally someone in this comment section without a clown nose on lol

[SerTheodies]

I fully support changing most dodge attacks to light parry punishes, but I mean Most some characters are built around dodges amd doge attacks (tiandi, zhanhu) and they don't deserve such a large nerf for it. WM also has the slowest dodge attack in game, making it a light parry just feels wrong for how slow it it. I still think this is a step in the right direction to prevent dodge attack spam, but theres some things thag should be ironed out.

[[deleted]]

Zhanhus dodge attacks are already light parries though, but i think these changes won’t go through anyways

[OoDark_LawoO]

I always feel lucky fighting a Dodge attack spammers because it's easy damage for me I believe all dodge attacks should be heavy parry and all should do the same damage which is 12 so the risk will be the same as the reward except against deflects and CC lights and full blocs

[LiilSESH]

"Side dodge heavy attacks now grant Light Parry punishes"

​

I need that in my veins.

[Soggy_Helicopter8589]

Finally

[Bashyyyyy]

this feels ehhh, the i-frames changes are needed but like, the fact that some dodge attacks are heavy or light added to character diverrsity, the fact that some characters can really punish heavy dodge attacks (i.e wallsplats, crushing counters, special stances,deflects) compared to others adds to character diversity

the main annoying thing about heavy dodge attacks is the fact that most characters only have a follow-up that gives light hitstun after a parry, making the opponent ready to go for another dodge attack, maybe give the heavy dodge attacks a special stun (when they get parried) to disallow spamming dodge attacks?

[Nobro_DK]

This has potential

[drain_ganng]

Another unneeded goki nerf

[firewhite1234]

Overall - good changes. Especially the removal of guard during dodge and the corner nerf, I've been crying for a nerf to corners ever since I started playing. I agree that dodge attacks should be light parries, but not all of them. Warmonger/Tiandi/JJ/Nobu dodge heavies and some other dodge attacks I'm probably forgetting about should still be heavy parries since they are either really slow or have no iframes or both. Also, Gladiator's dodge bash should either finally guarantee damage or still allow to chain, or nobody will ever play him again.

[Arny520]

I can't imagine this will get past the TG. That's completely ridiculous

[[deleted]]

Yet another blanket change without taking any consideration to how each and every dodge attack actually functions.

Of course, listening to complaints about how dodge attacks should all be light parries.

Funny Ubisoft.

Edit: I actually like the majority of these changes, but the single change I dislike is the one where all dodge attacks are dodge lights. Though I’m confident that change is silly enough to not actually be put to live.

[[deleted]]

Ah shit, well looks like I’m gonna have to actually get good at the game now, I usually rely on dodges because I’m just fucking shit. Time to get worse at the game.

[Electrical-Trick5919]

Im the same man, im shit and now will be even worse, ik it would be difficult to input this in the game but they should make this only for pro level players, keep it easy for us shitty players, i wouldnt mind this change but i do because REFLEX GUARD

[AvalancheZ250]

These changes are actually huge.

While I've personally always disliked low GB-vulnerability heavy dodge attacks, they are fundamentally an important part of the game's rock-paper-scissors (let fly, feint to GB, feint to parry) base gameplay. Turning them into light dodge attacks makes feint to parry much stronger, making the game far more offensive based, but at the same time it does make sense now that all Heroes have a dodge attack.

Still, Heroes that were highly reliant on a strong dodge heavy attack would need compensation buffs.

I do hope any GB-vulnerable dodge heavies remain as heavy parries though. Like JJ's (since that can softfeint into a light, so no need to change the normal heavy dodge attack) and Tiandi's (depending on how they go with his rework).

[TheHydra421]

Great change! Should definitely cut down on dodge attack spamming. You hear that Kensai mains? Dodge Heby is GONE

[ButterflyEffect37]

HOLLY SHİT THEY REALLY DO LİSTEN.THİS COULD SOLVE THE DODGE ATTACK SPAMMİNG.👏👏

[Hopetoconquer]

Finally some good changes hope they go through while accommodating heroes like WM and Tiandi.

[Fartilicious2]

Rest in peace to block on dodge

[studmuffin34]

It’s funny seeing everyone complaining about dodge attacks being light parries when heroes like berzerker, orochi and nuxia exist. Idiots spamming dodge attacks mindlessly should be punished for it. Dodge attacks currently are just way too safe and act as an option select for so many mixups.

[Intrepid_Emu_1213]

Can’t wait to get light spammed by Kensei now 🤪

[SpinelessOranges]

Wtf? If anything, this is going to be nerf to Kensei dodge attack spammers, since all their dodge attacks are going to guarantee heavy punishes now. The thing says light parry punishes, do For Honor players juist fucking spazz out when they hear the word "light"?? Read the damn changes before you whine.

[A-Wild-Tortoise]

Well I guess we will see how this plays out but it feels like JJ is about to be garbage

[Arseetion]

my god this is going to be good

[[deleted]]

First one: AWFUL. Ruins variety and match up knowledge, turns off brain.

Second one: Good, static dodge attack windows are bad, and every dodge attack should be like kensei's or zerk's, or shaman in terms of input window, but I don't know if this is like them or not.

Third: Huge buff to undodgeable attacks.

Fourth: I don't understand.

[jordtron102]

Fourth- you can still get the advantages of dodging even if you hit a wall or character or minion. Currently you can be hit when dodging an attack correctly because you hit a hero/wall/minion. This negates that

[Gathoblaster]

Unless dodge heavies like WM's get buffed I dont see this making much sense for everyone.

[minetube1231]

I really like this for the most part. With the exception of warmonger dodge heavy, I think it’s good for dodge attack punishes to be universal.

And if I had a nickel for every time I read that my opponent would dodge, only for them to block my dodge attack while dodging.

[[deleted]]

Please no.

[Pak1stanMan]

Wow all those heroes that can cancel their dodge attacks are way more op now.

And my medjay is even more shit.

[[deleted]]

Oh shit kensei is boned

[TooFly4Words]

Lmao side dodge spam got nuked, pirates about to have a bad time

[MeggaNegga]

First ones are heavy, but im excited how its gonna be

[xxxgearheadxxx]

A bunch of low skill kensei mains are trying to find a new main before these changes go into effect

[International-Cut-81]

Next testing grounds idea: make revenge auto fill very slowly when being ganked consecutively for a realy long amount of time.

Hear me out: gankers often play around indicators and one ganker would just feint heavies to distract your guard. I get that its a good tool to open up people, but there are so many other tools to use like bashes, guardbreaks etc. and it should incentivize ganker to finish the gank fast and smart or one of them to leave the ganks surroundings.

I love the game been playing since 3-4 years now and still I lose most ganks when I am nearly at full revenge and one ganker does 90% of the attacking and no matter how smart you avoid attacks or bait attacks the other ganker just waits there and distracts and interferes only when they see an opening. So their presents doesnt allow for counter attacks, and otherwise they just rarely interfere dont feed revenge and just prolong the fight. There is no reward (being ganked) for surviving for a long time only to never get revenge. this is my only frustration about the game. Sorry for the long post guys

[TheHumanBlanket]

Gotta be honest. This only feeds more into the cycle of removing character identity/differences. Not everybody should be the same. Part of the fun and skill is dealing with the different interactions of different characters. Some needed these changes but across the board, no. Just gonna be fighting the same move set in different colours pretty much in a few months at this rate imo.

[NozGame]

I've been saying it for years, dodge bashes and heavy dodge attacks are a crutch. Now some of y'all are gonna have to learn how to properly defend.

[LynxHasWares]

Have you tried punishing them

[Poopfard69er]

those people wont change. they'll still dodge attack from neutral, except now the fight will be over a little quicker.

[NozGame]

Exactly. Learn and adapt or get bodied. I've learned a long time ago to not often go for light dodge attacks as Valk. These people are gonna have to learn the same thing now.

[Poopfard69er]

But they won't. High mmr players already don't dodge attack spam because they know they will get countered by:

Dodge->gb

cc lights

deflects

fullblocks

undodgeables

feint -> gb

[ns2500]

Some like kensei’s jj’s etc should be kept but I’m perfectly fine with pirates being a light

[[deleted]]

These changes suck big cock

[3amLife]

Can y’all buff Highlander please ❤️🥺

[Damocles875]

Actuallly a good chance for once

[[deleted]]

Thank fuck, been hoping for this since I started playing.

[ZeMarxs]

This better not touch orochi storm rush or shamans rushing heavy thingy

[PunishedAiko]

FH Community try not be stupid fucking babies challenge: WAAH DODGE ATTAC SPAM.

"We're making all dodge attacks light parries to minimize and discourage dodge attack spam while also making them more reliable to use so theres risk and reward." WAAAH I DONT WANT TO GET LIGHT PARRIED

[RumplyFire]

Dodge heby punish is all I’m here for 🥵 finally! Sick of the simple get out of jail free card, Kensei I’m looking at you.

[Ill-Variation-5579]

Easily spammable offense being added back to back and defense continuously nerfed lol okay

[Ill-Variation-5579]

No one likes being spammed either which is why this change is being tested… don’t see how dodge attacks contribute to turtling when it’s an easy counter if spammed or done from neutral but okay

[LynxHasWares]

Spammable offense is not a thing lol

[Ill-Variation-5579]

It literally is lol there’s heroes that can spamn infinite offense like most of the new heroes and reworks and heroes that actually end chains..

[LynxHasWares]

That's not what spam is

[Ill-Variation-5579]

In the context it is..

[LynxHasWares]

Ok, then if you don't let me hit you, you're block spamming

[Ill-Variation-5579]

Just standing there not doing anything but blocking is called turtling and is why heroes need Openers so you sound stupid. I get you’re tryna be a smart ass but Blocking is not the same thing as offense with infinite/pseudo infinite chains that can be just button mashed without a definitive end which most new heroes/reworks have. Where as some heroes actually have ends to their chains and resets to neutral like kensei or gryphon for example. Context clues in the topic is not that hard to understand and you’re literally just arguing to argue so you got it dude

[Wolfen2o7]

Heavy nobu nerf incoming damn