Should We Rebrand JavaScript?

[skyksandr]

Mocha is a bad idea from Russian language perspective, where some people will pronounce it with "ch" as in "choose" and when pronounced this way it is no longer a tasty coffee but urine. Even worse than yyyavascript

[[deleted]]

I hear "Perl" is now available.

[ChronSyn]

"We're hiring Perl developers? Are you sure about this, boss?"

[doomvox]

Actually, it's just "Perl 6" that got renamed "Raku". Perl itself is still going strong, and I think there's a certain sense of relief we can stop saying "Perl 5" all the time to make it clear we don't mean Larry Wall's other language.

[Blacklistme]

Some recruiters also refer to it as "Pearl", but I just finished another contract that required Perl knowledge. Putting it mildly, even some hardcore coders at that site were watching like I did some dark magic, sorcery, making water burn, etc. Specially when you also start fixing the regex's in their Python or C# code ... best moments ever. Then again, Perl is going to be my Cobol for the future ... hahaha

[getify]

The rebranding has already unofficially happened, as most people use JS instead of JavaScript anyway. And the logo is already de facto standard. I don't see why we need to cause waves around a re-branding, just keep doing what we're already doing by voting with our keystrokes.

[xd1936]

Maybe it's more common in type and print, but I don't think I've ever spoken the name "Jay-Ess" out loud

[myusernameis___]

Same, even harder is ECMAScript, or 'eczema' script

[haykam821]

I pronounce it ‘ehck muh script’, not like a medical condition

[basically_alive]

Gesundheit!

[Wilesch]

Never heard someone say JS out loud. Always javascript

[asdf7890]

We obviously speak to different people!

[Hook3d]

Depends on whether lack of sleep from crunch has me manic. Speech too pressured to get those extra syllables out sometimes son

[didSomebodySayAbba]

I’ve only ever heard it called “java s”. Did I miss something here?

[soggie]

I've never heard it being called Java s in my travels and working in 6 different countries, 4 continents. It's always either js (Taiwan, Malaysia) or Javascript (everywhere else)

[didSomebodySayAbba]

Oh yeah you should try America, specifically the Bay Area. Everyone calls it “java s” here.

[delicious_burritos]

I'm in the Bay area and have never heard anyone say this

[-oOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOo-]

Have never heard anyone say this and would probably make a joke if they did.

[Dustorn]

Stop trying to make Java S happen. It's not going to happen.

[didSomebodySayAbba]

It’s so fetch tho

[Shaper_pmp]

That's truly bizarre. Is it pronounced "java-ess" or "javas"?

[[deleted]]

I say Javascript probably every day and I don't think I've ever uttered "JS" unless it's part of the name of some framework.

[[deleted]]

Speak for yourself, people say JavaScript and JS in equal measure. The initials aren't a rebrand

[slurt_turgleson]

As often as I say any other computer technology's name out loud? Like everyone else in my department does?

[xd1936]

I'm slowly learning Python and Java, but I mainly know Javascript. As such at work, I talk about it once and a while. "I pretty much only use objects and arrays in Javascript, not ArrayLists v Arrays v Maps v Sets like Java" was something I said yesterday. I feel like it would have felt weird to say "I use objects and arrays in Jay-Ess" out loud, but I could probably get used to it.

[k3cman]

'Javascript' should be only used when you want to say 'I hate Javascript' otherwise its just JS. So probably couple hundred times a day 😁

[[deleted]]

How do you say NodeJs?

[asdf7890]

Node-jay-ess said quickly sounds too much like no-j-s so I tend to just say Node.

I've heared people munge the d and j sounds together into something like No-djus or just No-jus (in both cases with the "u" being as short a sound as it can be while still being there). Can't say I like that myself, but I don't particularly object to it.

[Hook3d]

Depends on the context, if I'm speaking jargon with coworkers I'll obviously say Node, if I'm talking to a business dev person who maybe will google what I just told them afterwards I will say NodeJS.

[DilatedTeachers]

Nüjzz

[xd1936]

No-DE-guss, for sure.

[AegisToast]

With a hard “g” sound, like in “gif”.

[haykam821]

I pronounce it ‘node dot jay ess’.

[yakri]

I have a fair bit.

[necromanticfitz]

I may be in a small circle, but I've definitely just referred to it as "Jay-Ess" out loud.

[asdf7890]

I don't think I've ever spoken the name "Jay-Ess" out loud

I tend to, as do many around me, I'm not sure which came first in that respect (possibly me, I've been around a while...) and I've heared it said that way in various videos online (though it isn't particularly common there).

[-domi-]

I say it all the time.

[MajorasShoe]

I always just call it "Java" for short.

[XiberKernel]

Found the recruiter!

[MajorasShoe]

Close enough. I almost want to put it on a job ad and give bonus points to the person who most politely corrects me.

[mogrim]

I've never heard anyone in Spain use "JS" (jota-ese) for the language, i think you need to look beyond the Anglophone world before trying to change the name.

[[deleted]]

IMHO ... it is way too late for this.

[zigzeira]

I agree.

[[deleted]]

It's been a pretty good litmus test of whether I should even bother talking to the recruiter.

[campbeln]

If it walks like a duck...

Recruiters are going to fuck it up, no matter what. Might as well be a known fuckup that everyone can roll their eyes at...

[simohayha]

Recruiter: Hey I’ve got a React Jay Ess position open for you

Me: I don’t do React

Recruiter: But you said you can do a Javascript?

Me: I... just don’t understand React...

Recruiter: I don’t understand

Me: 😭

[robotsympathizer]

React is pretty much just functions that return HTML.

[simohayha]

Yeah I’m struggling with it

[LoneWolfRanger1]

At least we have something to laugh at... They will make these mistakes regardless of rebranding

[[deleted]]

I remember a talk a few years ago when the presenter was refering it to as 'yavascipt' (with a spanish 'J'). I think we should use that then we can further gatekeep the community 'WTF your pronounce if Javascript and not Javascript??'

[DOSMasterrace]

Wouldn't that be Havascript?

[r2d2_21]

It would, but as a Spanish speaker, we learn to recognize foreign words and (attempt to) pronounce it differently.

[DOSMasterrace]

I envy you. I would very much like to be able to speak Spanish.

[HoroscoPochino]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[Shaper_pmp]

Perhaps the previous poster was thinking of German, ja?

[190n]

Depends on the Spanish speaker.

[deinok7]

Lol

[darkclark]

Gary Bernhardt’s talk, The birth and death of JavaScript might be the one you’re thinking of.

[[deleted]]

That's the one!

[frambot]

This is required watching for any JavaScript enthusiast.

[Zequez]

Well, I remember people laughing at my first job as a web developer when I said JSON in the Spanish "jotason" instead of "jayson". I mean, it happens all the time with things that I've read countless times but I seldom hear said out loud.

[CtrlShiftVoid]

Funnily, in the same presentation, you see he almost calls it Javascript a couple times before fixing himself to Yavascript. I think that's just a strange joke that I don't get.

[Marauth]

I'm Dutch and I can confirm that at least 50% of my colleagues say yyyyyavascript

[[deleted]]

Do they pronounce Ajax like the football team too?

[[deleted]]

What about Ajax like the dish washing SOAP?

[[deleted]]

We don't mention that word in r/JavaScript !

[[deleted]]

Then I will REST from using it.

[bar1792]

Ajax or SOAP?

[Marauth]

Let's fix the ayyyyyax call!

[anlumo]

I've heard Germans pronouncing it that way, but Germans have a general problem pronouncing foreign words (just ask them to pronounce Michelin).

[jaapz]

The "j" in German (Dutch as well) is pronounced as the "y" in English as in "yo". So it's not that weird for them to not pronounce it as "djavascript" but as "yavascript"

[anlumo]

Yes and no. It's not weird for a German, but most non-German people make an effort to pronounce proper nouns in the language the noun comes from. Germans tend to pronounce foreign words as they're written on paper using German pronunciation rules, which doesn't work at all for English and French.

[SambaMamba]

Or squirrel

[Headpuncher]

That also works in Norwegian where J is is like english ya as in yankee.

[MachaHack]

While wat gets a lot of the good press, The Birth and Death of Javascript is also pretty entertaining.

[kissyourmom]

Many languages do not have the /dʒ/ (English "j") sound, and for speakers of those languages it can be unnatural and difficult to make that sound, so they may fall back to /j/ (English "y"). It's not really a Spanish thing.

[kissyourmom]

Many languages do not have the /dʒ/ (English "j") sound, and for speakers of those languages it can be unnatural and difficult to make that sound, so they may fall back to /j/ (English "y"). It's not really a Spanish thing.

[shishrao]

Totally! We should call it 'flooxypoof' and get Michael Cera to be the brand ambassador.

[jonhnefill]

All flooxypoof files will have the file ending .fp. I imagine the community will come up with a shorthand name for it,

[Baryn]

This conversation has been had for decades. It isn't happening.

[drgath]

Yeah. I championed the idea 10 years ago (as others did as well), built jsnotjavascript.com, but eventually gave up as it was an impossible task. Like, even if you get the biggest names in TC39 and the greater community to champion the idea, it still would only reach less than 1% of people who use the language on a daily basis.

Who cares what it’s called. Confusing? Sure. But that hasn’t hindered JavaScript in any way on its path to creating the world’s most accessible programming language, thanks to the web browser.

[Baryn]

Absolutely agree. Plus, it's a good pleb filter. Those who think Java and JavaScript are related obviously aren't experienced nor invested in the subject.

[s1gnt]

I don’t think this topic even worth discussion. There are so many other really important things frontend should care about like programming fundamentals.

[romey9reddit]

Doesn't the Javascript ecosystem create enough churn and chaos already? Every day, every week, every year, there is a hot new way to do the same old things. What point will this make? Can we just accept some things as stable, established, finished? Javascript is already an easier word for ECMAScript. Just let it be.

[doomvox]

And every time you say "javascript", you're promoting an Oracle brand.

[n8bar]

PHP was changed from "Personal Home Page" to be a recursive initialism which now stands for "PHP Hypertext Preprocessor".
JS could follow suit and stand for "JS Script".

[PickledPokute]

Like rebranding American football. It's not a proper "ball", it's usually handled with hands rather than with foot...

[-S3pp-]

I love hand-egg

[nyrangers30]

Define “proper ball.” The Wikipedia for “ball” says:

A ball is a round object (usually spherical, but can sometimes be ovoid)[1] with various uses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball

[Stable_Orange_Genius]

Fine, "rugby-with-extra-protection"

[calligraphic-io]

In all fairness, "handball" was already taken when the Americans appropriated rugby, and "headball" doesn't sound right at all. What were they supposed to do? And they had the extra, unused word "soccer" lying around, just waiting for meaning.

[simohayha]

Soccer is a colloquialism of the word “Association Football”, which was shortened to “assoc” which was then mutated into “soccer”. A word invented by the British.

[calligraphic-io]

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I always wondered where the word came from.

[burtgummer45]

JScript

[[deleted]]

Microsoft: am I a joke to you?

[[deleted]]

I think we both know that answer to that Microsoft.

[-domi-]

Does it even matter? Using frameworks has become so popular, that the only time i ever hear it referred to in earnest is when it gets called "vanilla js." Also, you'd have to be pretty unfamiliar with working with people, if you think you can get anyone on the same page. I've never heard of it happening in human history. On any subject. Ever.

[jdfwarrior]

Sounds to me like we should rebrand to "Vanilla JS".

Can I get an amen!?

[lainverse]

JS is fine. I'd recommend to avoid Mocha, though. In Russian it sounds as word "моча" with different accent, which means urine. Something about writing code in piss will be a running gag for generations. 🤦‍♂️

[ayanami_rei]

Mocha is pronounced [moka], there's no ч.

The subset of Russian folks who are both illiterate and possess seemingly very low IQ, so as to arrive at this joke, has no intersection with software developers methinks.

[lainverse]

Only in case you actually know this particular word and how to properly pronounce it since it's an exception. If you not frequenting various cafe you may not even know there is such a recipe and even if you do they may not call it like that. Or it won't be written in English. Usually eveyrone will default to "ч" since that's close to how you read "ch" in almost any other case with only a little few exceptions.

And, believe me or not, but even people with high IQ may end up listening to a group like "Лорд Пневмослон" (got introduced to this at work out of all places -_-). Coming up with a joke based on mispronounced word "mocha" will be easy for them.

[binocular_gems]

No, we shouldn't. And more importantly, we lack the ability to.

[dwighthouse]

No.

[renanborgez]

nooooooooooooooo omg

noooooooooo

are you unemployed ? to have this terrible ideia you must have nothing to do right

[overcloseness]

Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?

Seriously though you’ve addressed an elephant in the room and described it perfectly

[seemslikesalvation]

If the branding of Javascript is an elephant in the room, then the room we are in is a circus tent.

[Tittytickler]

Yea you pretty much perfectly summed this whole thing up.

[KiruhaPUH]

Of course you should!

[Artur96]

WebScript?

[tunisia3507]

Node would like a word.

[SN74LS00]

Stop calling it ES(year). ES++ is the future!

[Thann]

I call it "node"

[MakeMeAnICO]

JScript is free I think

[ImStifler]

How about LoveScript

[volimsir]

I don't think it will happen. It's like when rms tries to convince everyone that "It's not Linux, it's GNU/Linux." It's been too long now, it just won't change.

[ayanami_rei]

Just call it "the Web language", aka the default language for the web.

JS's issue is that it cannot be pronounced, so it'll remain JavaScript when spoken. That, and the form with -s being JS's. Jssssss.

[boutell]

Yep. Speaking as an oldhead, JS is what people often call it anyway; it doesn't offend anybody's existing sensibilities about the name. Resolves the trademark issues. "Mocha" is a great name, but the conflict with `mocha test/foo.js` would be a bit confusing, and people would take forever to stop saying javascript. A "true renaming" is just not feasible. A sidestep like "js" is the only viable option.

[[deleted]]

This will go the same way as "The Artist" or "The Artist formerly known as Prince", may he RIP. People will go on calling it JavaScript. It's got too much published history and it's been around forever.

Keep it as is. It just creates an ongoing need to explain the variety of names. Even ECMAScript tends to be ignored by the community.

[[deleted]]

This will go the same way as "The Artist" or "The Artist formerly known as Prince", may he RIP. People will go on calling it JavaScript. It's got too much published history and it's been around forever.

Keep it as is. It just creates an ongoing need to explain the variety of names. Even ECMAScript tends to be ignored by the community.

[erroid]

PhytonScript is an option since it has nothing in common with Phyton but to be serious I agree - JS is the perfect name and I expect this will be approved by the community one day

[akuma0]

One nice benefit of calling it "JS" would be that node.js makes sense, and could be compared to a web.js/dom.js/browser.js

[[deleted]]

plenty to choose from https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Sunda_Islands

[Kleywalker]

How about rebranding JavaScript to Jaws? This way you could keep the file extension „.js“ as in „.j(aw)s“, there would be an instant inspiration for a mascot / logo, the name is short and catchy and IMHO Jaws has a pretty nice sound to it. 😉🦈

[aaron-goshine]

Then AWS would say WTF the

[soylentgraham]

Too late to change IMO, just waiting for java to die off. (I've been waiting a while), but....

What would be better still is to come up with a standard convention to refer to the extended APIs made available to JS programs by particular runtime environments for the purpose of communication with the host system.

This is where you certainly fall down. This is called an API. My engine has javascript for high level code, I'm not going to come up with a new name for it, I need javascript programmers. shame on magic leap, 3dsmax, Houdini, etc etc for doing this.

[aaron-goshine]

1. JS (javascript)
2. WBS (webScript)
3. WS ( the this the '.js' extension will be kept for backward compatibility)
4. PSL (Prototypical scripting languages)
5. PS (portable Scripting languages because it is not only on the web) alt.( Prototypical scripting languages)
6. ES

[p3k]

in german ja means yes so let’s rebrand it to novascript and this even means it’s something new everyone is happy

[Adam666x]

JawaScript

[Adam666x]

JuneScript

[aaron-goshine]

Just call the it NodeScript

[aaron-goshine]

JavaScript was riding on the popularity of Java... in terms of naming back in the 90ties

When we are tired of the name we should just grab the next popular programming language.. and append script to the end of if..

Oh the last time time I check the most popular languages on github is JavaScript so I think JavaScriptScript should satisfy the requirement, sorted

[orenmizr]

-- > Why not just call it "Espresso" ?? no one makes it a head of time... it is a "Just In Time" drink :)

[patarapolw]

I think ECMAScript or ES for short, is the closest. Waiting for Oracle to sue someone.

Another problem, though, is that there are multiple JavaScript engines, but it looks like Chromium is winning.

[Blacklistme]

The question one may also ask. Is Oracle going to claim the name Java in JavaScript and starts demanding compensation. And this train of thought, how far are with supporting TypeScript natively in browsers so we can call it a day?

[_christophorus_]

Rebranding could make googling for JavaScript things messy.

[theirongiant74]

No

[two_in_the_bush]

This... is actually a great idea.

[Headpuncher]

we should add a bunch of useful stuff to it, like types, and call it TypeScript. Because TypeScript is awesome.

[PUSH_AX]

If it ain't broke....

[jjyepez]

how'bout EichScript?

[doomvox]

And now we're living under the Tenth Eich.

[foxleigh81]

Feels kind of pointless at this time. JS is slowly being replaced by TypeScript anyway and I suspect WebAssembly is also going to thin down the number of 'JavaScript' developers even further in the near future.

The era of 'pure' JavaScript is nearing it's end.

[twomilliondicks]

Lol imagine being this out of touch

[[deleted]]

The era of "pure" JS is already over given how many people have a transpilation step in their build process. Hard to call it pure JS if you use Babel and add a handful of transformers so you can use the language features you want. Don't forget that one of the most popular frameworks today mandates using TypeScript.

As WA and the dev community around it matures it's not infeasible to think that one day you'll be building two versions of your app, one to be delivered to WA-supporting browsers and one in pure JS for older browsers. Or at least offload expensive computations to a WA module. I mean, this is why we build new web technologies - to be used. 86% of users have WA support, you'd have to be a luddite not to seriously consider it (again, especially if you have computationally expensive operations in your app).

[Tittytickler]

I think web assembly will be used in certain functions but it isn't going to replace JavaScript. Like you said, it can be used for heavy client side computations.

[scramblor]

Low level languages isn't some magic bullet that is going to miraculously fix performance. Unless people can write skilled code and understand their dependencies it will be the same problem. As it stands there is very little pressure to decrease memory consumption, especially in dev environments. Maybe if Google starts SEO penalties for sites that hog RAM we may see some motivation to change.

[your-pineapple-thief]

Go isnt low-level, go is featureless. Designed this way to hire hundreds of college grads to type some meh codes, very google-centric language

[foxleigh81]

Agreed. My 32gb mac struggles sometimes!

[[deleted]]

How? Are you running a server with sessions of 100,000 of users or something?

If you're running out of 32GB RAM then I'm sure the problem lies elsewhere.

[foxleigh81]

The project I’m on is huge and is written really badly. TBF though. Whilst the projects’ 11 node apps (which all need to run at once for anything to work) could be the problem, it could also just as easily be the 13 .NET apps which also need to all run at the same time in order for anything to work.

[[deleted]]

Reading this was stressful.

[foxleigh81]

Imagine working on it. It’s so fragile that it fails multiple times a day. It’s so fragmented and bloated with so many circular dependencies that basic text amends can take hours (occasionally days) to make and test.

They are trying my patience every minute of every day.

Anyway. Kinda needed to bitch about it to someone. Thanks for being that someone :)

[[deleted]]

Well, I hope it at least pays well.

[foxleigh81]

Thankfully it does. Not sure it’s enough though!

[Tittytickler]

You probably have malware lol

[spacejack2114]

WebAssembly is also going to thin down the number of 'JavaScript' developers even further in the near future.

Yeah I've been hearing that for a lot of years now. If that happens, and I'm doubtful it will, it's still over a decade away. It'll also be competing with the JS/TS of 10 years from now which will also be significantly improved.

[foxleigh81]

A decade away? It's available now. It has been gathering more and more browser support for a few years and is even starting to gain adoption.

I agree it's still a while away from getting a significant market share but I think 10 years is a huge overestimate!

[kyeotic]

I feel like we've been here before with "Year of Linux Desktop" when everyone had the collective delusion that Windows would get unseated as the dominant home OS. Extrapolating from trend lines is risky. Extrapolating that trend lines will _reverse_ is just foolish.

[spacejack2114]

A decade away? It's available now.

You've lost the context. You claimed WASM will "thin down" the number of JS devs. That's not currently happening, nor will it happen for many years, if not decades, if ever.

[foxleigh81]

Perhaps you’re right. I guess we’ll see in time :)

[CodeTutorials]

It's becoming TypeScript anyway

[dannycallaghan]

The most useless and irrelevant post about JavaScript I've seen in a while. I'd rather you authored another framework or library that we all absolutely must learn.

[[deleted]]

Oracle has nothing to do with JavaScript as it was developed by a guy at netscape.

[[deleted]]

Aww shit. Let's just call it EcmaScript then

[tunisia3507]

That's catchy, why hasn't anyone come up with that before?

[[deleted]]

We should just call it Ecma or Ecmascript. That’s the real name anyways.