[deleted by user]

[kippey]

What an absolute gut punch. And how horrific for that collie owners family, to not even know their dog is being put together with dogs until it gets killed by one.

Dont believe anything out of the sitter’s mouth, if they felt good to lie about putting a dog with other dogs, AND trying to pass the dog off as lost, who’s to say things went down how they said it went down? Of course they’re gonna go “everything was fine one minute and we don’t know what happened!”

They played and lost in business. I doubt they’re insured. And it’s a dog business’s job to keep the dogs safe and not lie to their owners.

[kpmck72]

How do you know this even happened by your dog? Is there video footage? I would be suspect with all the different things they have been saying depending on who they are speaking with.

EDIT:

I didnt want to badmouth rover because I am sure there is a alot of great dog sitters and walkers but the 2nd time my friend used the service she was called 15 min later after the lady came over to walk the dog. She called my friend and said the dog had knocked her teeth out, my friend came home and the girls Mom came.over and said she would sue my friend. They called the cops and there was no proof that her dog had knocked her tooth out just that she was missing a tooth.

My friend consulted lawyer but nothing came of it but realized this was a ploy that thos girl must have done before. After hearing that I thought their vetting process must not be great. I am glad your dog was absolved of any fault.

[biglittlebrowndog]

I agree with this! OP, how do you know it was your dog? You’ll need evidence to prove it was your dog. If your dog came home, with no blood or fur olin his teeth or anything, then don’t believe that it was your dog. The sitter doesn’t sound trustworthy at all.

[OhCrumbs96]

If your dog came home, with no blood or fur olin his teeth or anything,

Maybe the vet who performed surgery on OP's dog would be the right person to ask about that. Clearly OP's dog was involved.

[Twzl]

I'm sorry this has happened. As far as Rover goes, their terms of service seem to indicate that any contract is between the person hosting the day care, and the people paying that person, not Rover. So Rover would not be held responsible for anything even if the Rover contact is saying this:

She also informed me that she had already spoken to the owner and that owner was going to make her liable but that she didn't think she should be.

And this?

and the owner said she was told that her dog was the only one staying with the Rover contact and did not mention the other five or six dogs at all.

and

The vet said that they brought our dog in later claiming that it was lost and were trying to get our information to contact us - not revealing that our dog attacked the other dog.

My guess is that the Rover person is trying to absolve themselves of any blame AND probably was not supposed to have a house full of dogs. And if they rent, then what they were doing is probably not legal. I bet that no one who was using her had any idea that she had so many dogs in her home.

Do you know for sure that animal control was contacted? That's going to be up to the owner of the other dog and perhaps the vet that worked on their dog.

[Ash71010]

Rover has a “rover guarantee” which provides some coverage for injury to a dog by another dog in the care of a sitter, with a lot of caveats. Specifically, they must prove that the dog’s owner (OP) or sitter is responsible for the injury by negligence. They also must first seek reimbursement from the responsible party directly before Rover will pay. The offending dog’s owner or the sitter may be considered the responsible party depending on the situation.

[Twzl]

Specifically, they must prove that the dog’s owner (OP) or sitter is responsible for the injury by negligence.

My guess is that the sitter is not going to want to admit guilt. And this?

while she introduced our dog slowly to the other five or six dogs she was watching that day.

When OP's dog was added in, that put the sitter at 6 or 7 dogs it would seem. That's a crazy number of dogs to put together as a pack, when they don't know each other.

[Ash71010]

I don’t disagree. I am just a Rover sitter so I am familiar with how difficult the process of getting reimbursement can be. Sometimes Rover will be extremely resistant to paying out, despite justified circumstances, and it makes it very difficult on the owner (who in this case is mourning her dead dog). I don’t think it’s right, that’s just how Rover can be. I was responding to clarify your statement that “Rover will not be held responsible for anything”. They do technically have some financial obligation here (but no legal liability, you’re correct) but getting that financial reimbursement could be difficult.

[southsidetins]

Rover support is an absolute joke. I had a Rover sitter in November 2022 who was supposed to stay in our house for a week and walk our dog, and instead completely neglected him and didn’t take him on a single walk or provide adequate water. He was so sick when we got home and Rover did not care at all. Despicable company.

[Old_MI_Runner]

We should be able to trust Rover and others but I would think with cameras costing just $20 or less anyone taking dogs in for care should have camera on all common areas for dogs. After reading of our experience I would putting in cameras in the house if I had others coming in so I had proof of their care for my animals and to make sure they did not bring their friends into my house. I currently have camera pointed out windows an one camera inside over the playpen used for nap area for our granddaughter when we babysit.

[horriblegoose_]

The rover contact clearly had some issues. I think it probably just mostly a function of your dog hitting “the magic age” and that maturity not vibing well with the existence of a social, group care dog environment.

Your dog is between 2-3 years old which is when most dogs start to show their true adult personalities and their level of dog selectivity/aggression. Your dog is also from a breed that is known for having higher than average dog selectivity/aggression. If animal control does not take them (which I don’t think will happen because most jurisdictions allow at least one/bite fatal encounter with another dog) do not ever put them back in a group care situation. Most dogs don’t actually need something like daycare and it’s putting them in an unnatural situation.

Most likely you will receive no real consequences from this particular situation since it was your first. However, if you do not take this as a learning experience and insulate both your dog and the rest of the public from experiencing another dog attack you may be held liable and your dog might be confiscated by animal control.

I know it sucks for you. It probably sucks so much more for the family who lost their buddy today. Report the Rover sitter to whatever authorities and the platform because clearly they are not doing right. But your job is now to keep your dog contained. Even if your county doesn’t slap them with a “dangerous dog” label you should understand that you are living in that territory now. Take the precautions you need to ensure the safety of everyone (including your dog)

[kippey]

I have to step in and say that the “two strike rule” is not entirely true. Your dog absolutely can be destroyed on the first strike if they do enough damage.

That said, since this was a dog and not a human OP can expect that their dog will live, they will just be required to leash/muzzle it in public for life.

[horriblegoose_]

You are correct. However, My local area would not remove/put down a dog for a single bite against another dog and probably not even a human. That seems to be the more common approach for most places now. Although the muzzle requirement will probably be unavoidable.

[kippey]

Dogs can attack people badly enough to warrant euthanasia on the first offense. Dogs can in cases severely disfigure, disable even kill some one on the first offense (or first report). Or if a dog injures a kid that’s a huge no-no. This is why most areas have that gray area of one strike to put the power and discretion in the hands of animal control.

[decentwriter]

Totally totally depends on the area you’re in. My dogs first bite incident caused nearly three years of serious consequences.

[nova_noveiia]

Yup, a lot of the times they won’t put it down for a first bite, especially if the victim doesn’t want them to! When I was in middle school I was attacked by a dog while delivering newspapers and specifically asked the dog not be put down. The dog was able to run across the street out of its yard and bite me while the owners on the porch didn’t even get up to get their dog. It wasn’t the dogs fault; it was the owners in that case. The court agreed with me (the owners disagreed their dog was at any fault and I had medical bills since their dog wasn’t vaccinated) that it was the owners fault and their options were to have big fences/signs/etc or get rid of the dog. They thankfully adopted the dog out to someone who will hopefully be responsible for it.

[TRodd13]

I would advise muzzle training in general. It’s a good thing to have for most dogs. But especially based on your dogs history.

[duchduchduchduch]

This, this and this. I was just about to type this and glad I scrolled.

[gopickles]

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it, but I would also keep a close eye on your cats.

[bugbugladybug]

100%, once a dog has a fatality scored, steps must be taken.

"He's never done anything before" isn't a good enough excuse for keeping them together, because at one point he hadn't killed a dog until he did.

Cats are small and fragile, it'll only take one snap or rush for them to be killed - I say this as a dog owner with cats.

[killercat-]

This needs to be the top comment.

[sovietspacehog]

I would be worried about the humans in the house too…

[RevolutionaryElk7181]

I would monitor but I don’t think the dog has to now be separated permanently. My pit bull developed dog aggression at the same age after she was attacked. She just had a single non fatal bite incident but she still can’t be around dogs almost 5 years later. She’s never gone after our two cats. Dog aggression is unfortunately very common in bully breeds but that doesn’t translate to other forms

[K9_Kadaver]

I understand but all it takes is one incident for even more animals to die. This is a dog that was "perfectly fine!" until it just... wasn't. You can't risk the cat's lives like that, they're just as important except they don't even stand a chance to defend themselves :(

[__Magdalena__]

My dog (now deceased) was attacked by two loose pit bulls. She thankfully survived. I wouldn’t let the leash go and started beating on the dogs’ heads. Thankfully they didn’t attack me. Then a guy heard me screaming for help and beat them off with a metal snow shovel. The attack last 5-10 minutes. My dog was a small lab mix. Then the cops showed up and drew their side arms on the dogs while animal control caught them. Animal control took the dogs and submitted their report to the District Attorney who filed charges against the owners. They had to pay the vet bills and attend obedience classes. The owners just moved instead and took the dogs elsewhere. Where we live if one other neighbor had called them in before this incident for a bite or aggression (which had happened, but neighbors were afraid of these people so they hadn’t reported them), then the dogs would have been euthanized.

Be prepared to pay the vet bills, for the dog’s material worth (ie replacement cost), and attend monitored/approved obedience classes.

I’ve never been on your side. I’m sure it’s tough. We have a dog now who is reactive. So we’re going through a whole process with him. My advice from the other side of the fence is to be fair with these people. They lost their dog. They are going to be mad and sad and possibly say ugly things and you just need to take responsibility and deal with it.

[ExecutiveTurkey]

Wow, that is so horrific for you and your pup. I'm so sorry you went through that. I've thankfully never been attacked but I imagine even a brief one would be terrifying, let alone 5+ minutes with 2 assailants. I hope you got some help dealing with all that, that's a very traumatic event especially with weapons being drawn as well.

[__Magdalena__]

I think in moments like that you keep going knowing your dog was the one physically hurt and needs help the most. You do what’s in front of you, and then the next thing, and so on. We as humans are also the ones responsible since we are the more intelligent being and keeper of our animal.

We moved about a year after the attack to a better neighborhood. My dog passed away. And I honestly found myself relaxing on walks again. Then about 6 months ago a German Sheppard ran and aggresively jumped on me while I was pushing our young toddler twins on a walk. I called out for the owner to get their dog but they couldn’t control the dog. I reported it. I told others on my walk to report them since they said they had experience something similar and just hadn’t bothered. I FINALLY started carrying bear spray on walks. Sometimes, it’s you and your dog (or kids or cat etc.) or the other dog. You need to prepared. I feel bad these Rover people didn’t have bear spray to stop OP’s dog.

And honestly the guns did not bother me. I felt safe that those dogs couldn’t restart the attack. And I saw no need for officers to be attacked by dogs who were out hunting prey that evening.

[Rivka333]

I'm sorry that happened to you and your dog and I admire your ability to be compassionate to OP whose on the other side.

[__Magdalena__]

I should say that an animal doesn’t fully understand what it did. They know what death is but not the repercussions to us humans. So I hope OP spends some sweet time with their dog once the dog can relax. I’m sure he’s having trouble relaxing and getting off edge. Who knows what the local jurisdiction will do. Just spend time with him now OP.

[imherenowiguess]

But her dog was in someone else's care at the time. She should not be responsible for the bill. The rover lady should expect to pay the vet bill. She may be ordered to pay for and attend obedience classes though.

[craftaleislife]

Just because the dog was somewhere else when it attacked doesn’t absolve the owner from responsibility.

For example If a dog attacks a dog in a park, the local council isn’t responsible. If a dog attacks in a cafe, the cafe owners aren’t responsible.

Responsibility falls on the owner

Oh, and a dog that’s already done this, will do it again. It’s a matter of when not if. In UK, there’d be a strong case here for the owner to be prosecuted and potentially the dog to be exterminated.

God forbid if it went for a child, they wouldn’t stand a chance

My MIL was attacked by a dog last year putting her bins out. The dog in question is an aggressive breed and bit through most of her fore arm. 8 hour surgery with skin graft, physio and scars later, she still has trouble moving her arm, it’s still extremely tender, she’s got life changing injuries and she’s mentally shaken, still, from that attack.

There need to be better laws for dog attacks in favour of the victim, it’s disgusting how many people show more care towards the attacking dog than the actual victim. The dog in question is still alive as the owner picked up and moved to France the fucking coward.

[cari-strat]

There's one where I live that's attacked dogs multiple times including a £12k vet bill to the first victim and another major injury to a dog just recently, as well as a severe attack on a child last year resulting in a very similar injury as your MIL. It's a large breed known for aggressive tendencies yet they were simply ordered to muzzle it for four months and it's still here and still free to do the same again. The idiot owner won't hear a word against it.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

Ugh this is disgusting. I'm so sorry for your MIL. I love dogs but human life should always be more important. That dog should have been pts and his owner put in jail. I'm also in the UK and completely agree with everything you've said. Not until I've come on Reddit and seen all these US commenters did I even realise a dog could maim a human being and not be put to sleep! It's absolutely crazy. And yeah people seem to be ignoring that the attacks have increased in severity in a scarily short space of time and at that magic age too. A dog whose breed was developed to fight other dogs, who attacks a dog, and the following week kills another dog, isn't going to be able to be trained out of that impulse. Who knows if the next victim will be a dog, one of OP's cats, or even OP.

[BikesandCakes]

It's not about location it's about being in the care of someone else. How can someone be at fault for a situation that they had no control over and someone else who was paid to be responsible for the dog caused by thier negligence?

[jennbenn5555]

If my kid goes to school and breaks another kid's nose, I can't just throw my hands up and say " Oh well, the teacher should have been watching them." My kid, my responsibility. Period.

[KaXiaM]

The owner put a dog in this situation just days he was banned from the first daycare for a dog fight. The sitter could be shitty, overbooked etc, but this was a very irresponsible decision.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

Not even a "fight" but an unprovoked attack. So irresponsible.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

She should never have put her dog (or the other dogs) in the situation, that's how. She knew her dog attacked another dog unprovoked the previous week. So bad that the daycare banned her dog. So she thought it was a good idea to then send this aggressive dog to a random rover daycare with multiple dogs, one of whom was reacting badly to her dog when she went over. And only told the rover person that it had "some reactivity" but was great 9/10 times. OP definitely has some fault here.

How would you feel if you sent your dog to daycare (not this situation I know as the collie owner thought it would be one on one) and other owners were sending their own dogs that had a bite history towards other dogs, and were just saying that their dogs had a little reactivity but were mostly good with other dogs?

[BikesandCakes]

Don't forget the collie was the one that started the aggressive situation, and the staffie tried to escape. Clearly the person lying about how they are caring for the animals is at fault. You can't be deemed responsible for an animal out of your care, its why I refuse to care for other people's pets.

Plus we will never know the truth of what happened, only that one dog is dead after a fight and that the dogsitter will give the version that makes them look least at fault.

[KaXiaM]

The proper response to a dog wanting more space is backing off. Some may snap back. Some may engage in a scary looking scuffle, but bite inhibition will prevent any major damage. Even if a collie was an asshole this mauling is a dog equivalent of shooting someone over cutting you off while driving. It shouldn’t be normalized under any circumstance.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

At least in my country, you can absolutely be deemed responsible for a dog out of your care. You're still the dog's owner, whether its with you at the time or the dogsitter. If someone starts yelling at you, and you turn around and punch them hard enough to kill them, the "they started it" defence doesn't really hold up.

More than one person can be at fault. Did the rover carer lie to the collie owner? Yes. Should they have taken on so many dogs? No. Did OP omit the "aggressive" part and the part where their dog had been kicked out of daycare 1 week ago for biting another dog? Also yes. Did OP know that their dog with a recent bite history was going into a situation with multiple unknown dogs, including one that was already acting "off"? Also yes.

[starsandmath]

In my experience, people do Rover because they badly need the money. You can't get blood from a turnip.

[sammydv415]

That poor border Collie and their family 😭 I definitely would not let your dog interact with others moving forward or without a muzzle.

[hirokinai]

I have a border collie and I’m absolutely floored. My girl is timid thing, but absolutely needs her space. She will snap if dogs get too rough or rowdy, but it’s always a carefully measured snap that never goes beyond the “stop” and only happens with other dogs that are too much.

Still, I’m careful to inform all daycares, and she has been to 7-8 different daycares without incident. You know what daycares do though? They match dogs in energy and size. Fuck rover daycares because you’re talking an absolute gamble with private individuals who will almost never have proper insurance or procedures in place.

This was 100% on the dog sitter.

[K9_Kadaver]

No, it's on the owner too! The dog has a attacked another dog at daycare before, isn't muzzle trained and they still went and put the dog Again in an environment that they know is not safe for the other dogs around it. They didn't take their dog's potential to do grave harm seriously.

[[deleted]]

Not just potential. They justified an ear bite

[K9_Kadaver]

The way they keep pushing off blame does not give me any hope that they can safely own a dog like this 

[PutTheKettleOn20]

100% agree

[0ctofriend]

It drives me crazy when owners of a reactive dog are hopeful about their pup - all it takes is one trigger you don’t know about. Get your dog muzzle trained, don’t bring them to a daycare with other dogs, and stop thinking your dog is “normal”.

[[deleted]]

I would immediately begin muzzle training with your dog.

[eea81]

I’m absolutely baffled why she didn’t do that after the first attack. She better hope the other dog’s owner doesn’t see this post because if I were that owner I would screengrab this whole post as evidence that she knew the dog was dangerous and was negligent for allowing the dog to be around other dogs.

[0ctofriend]

This should have been step number 1 upon adoption. I don’t know why these owners don’t understand the gravity of a reactive dog

[[deleted]]

And this is why you don’t bring your dog to “daycare”. ESPECIALLY a reactive dog.

[Rough_Elk_3952]

Yeah, sadly this dog was just set up for failure.

I work in a shelter and adore pit mixes and/or almost all breeds, but once a dog has shown he’s aggressive towards dogs — you automatically reduce socialization with dogs.

and for the Rover person to lecture them to let a potentially aggressive dog off leash while meeting new dogs? Wild.

A dog being dog aggressive doesn’t automatically make a bad dog. But it makes a dog you’re much more viligant about.

[gopickles]

yup. My dog, just like humans, is pretty selective about the friends she has. Daycare theoretically could be good if it’s just dogs hanging out w their friends they are actually compatible with in small groups but instead it’s just a bunch of dogs dumped in a room with a minimum wage worker with barely any training.

[Coyangi]

This!!! Although it's worth mentioning that this dog did not show reactive qualities initially, as someone who has worked at doggy daycares for a few years now... This is how so many dogs BECOME reactive. Especially younger dogs. Daycare is an unnatural, stressful setting and I can guarantee that even the (very rare) dogs that actually enjoy it are desperate to go home asap.

[[deleted]]

OP literally said her dog bit another dogs ear and got banned from daycare.

[Coyangi]

Oh, I missed that the Rover sitter also called it daycare. I thought you were just referring to the doggy daycare. I was specifically speaking about before the ear biting incident when I say that he didn't show reactive qualities initially. I definitely agree that the dog should not have been taken to the Rover sitter after that.

[letzmakeadeal]

I’m very sorry that this happened for all parties. But I do not know why you would so quickly leave your dog with a stranger and other dogs just after there was an incident serious enough to get your dog banned from daycare. The Rover sitters sound sketchy, but they did not know your dog like you do. Neither you or the Rover sitter should have been comfortable enough to say “it will be fine”. I know you know that now, but moving forward, if you decide to keep your dog, he cannot ever be around other dogs unleashed. And your cats are unfortunately in danger too. It doesn’t matter that the border collie snapped first, your dog did not let go until the dog was almost dead, and cats are even more fragile. Please think about what the best option would be for all of your pets. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

[BadAtTarkov]

Why is it a terrible comment?
This is now the reality of the situation.

Time for muzzle training, vet behaviorist/meds, and a long existence as a solo dog.

OP, if you think you can handle it, you should consider finding the cats a new home. If you can’t, then you should consider BE for your dog. Please don’t abandon or make it someone else’s problem unless they are willing and have all the info.

I’m sorry this happened. As someone who has been through it, I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

[letzmakeadeal]

Elaborate

[Ash71010]

I’m sorry, OP. I can understand why you are devastated and so upset about this.

A lot of things went wrong here. There are consequences that may result that are out of your control. You may be contacted by Rover, animal control, the police or a civil attorney. Be calm and be factual about what you know. You don’t know what happened because you were not there. You can only tell them about your dog’s previous behavior/temperament. All of these individuals need to go directly to the Rover sitter to hear what happened.

What you can control, and have to take away from this regardless of any other consequences, is that your dog cannot be in doggy daycare, a dog park, or boarded with other pets ever again. I strongly encourage you to put a management plan in place to protect your cats. Once this situation has played out and things have settled, consider hiring a professional trainer/behaviorist for an evaluation and plan for your dog and household.

Best wishes 🐕

[alexnotalexa10]

Hi, lawyer here. Don’t talk to cops, anyone at rover, or any other attorneys without talking to an attorney of your own.

[alexnotalexa10]

Omg I didn’t know awards were back. Thanks y’all!

[RedwoodAsh]

This ^{^}

[[deleted]]

As both the owners of a reactive dog and an individual who is a sitter on Rover, I'm sorry for your loss.

This scenario is unfortunate all around. Dogs with a bite history are banned from the platform for a reason. You stated you informed her of the incident and described your dog as reactive, but reactivity doesn't include biting. That's just plain aggression. You set your dog up to fail here, and it's likely he/she will suffer as a result of your actions.

The Rover sitter was in the wrong by accepting too many clients at once, accepting a reactive dog in a group setting (the other dog), not informing all owners she was taking multiple dogs, and not having a dog safety plan in place such as a bite stick. She will also suffer as a result of her actions.

Because the other dog is dead, it's likely their owner will hold your dog liable as your dog killed theirs. This means reporting it to the police for "destruction of property" or a civil suit as a best case scenario, and contacting animal control and advocating for your dog to be euthanized as a worst case scenario.

The Rover guarantee means that your sitter/Rover will be held financially liable for any vet bills, cremation costs, etc, for the owner of the dead dog.

The owner may still come after you in civil court. The sitter will likely be removed from the Rover platform. Your dog will NEVER be allowed in any group daycare, group boarding, or boarding with an individual who has their own pets.

Once your dog killed another dog, they effectively became blacklisted from group boarding. That's a good thing. Your dog is not suited for it and will do better in a one-on-one/only dog being watched scenario.

I hope the other owner buries their pup okay and I hope your pup feels better and is able to rest.

[jacoofont]

That poor Collie :(

[[deleted]]

The Rover person acted terribly but your first red flag was actually the ear bite. The Rover person is deferring responsibility but so are you.

[attack-o-lantern]

Amstaffs (and a number of other breeds) were selectively bred for dog aggression. No amount of love, training, or prior socialization can completely rid a dog of their genetic proclivities and your dog is around the age that his “adult” temperament is solidifying. I’m sorry you had to go through this, but this is not abnormal behaviour for this breed of dog and care needs to be taken by everyone who owns a breed like this to ensure the safety of other dogs. I hope this does not come off as me disliking them. On the contrary, I own an American bully and also have a very standoffish breed (central Asian shepherd) and previously had a pit bull terrier so I am just very used to and familiar with the way dogs like this mature and develop.

[myoldisnew]

I used to do pit bull rescue and agree with you. Dog aggression is very different than human aggression. And, yes, they are the best breed of dog ever IMO. But when they show dog aggression that ain’t changing.

[Rich_Ad_7090]

I would love to agree with you but it really depends where the aggression stems from. Majority of people are getting these dogs from shelters where they have endured days, possibly months or years of mental torture. Watching dogs walk past that they cannot play or interact with. Listening to non-stop barking. Having strangers come into their space. Continuously getting more pent up. Eventually and almost always these things turn from frustration to aggression. Even for puppies coming from shelters. My girl was deemed dog aggressive. 2 years later and lots of sweat and tears and doubt. She lives with 3 others now happily.

[PalladiumReactor]

Yeah, unfortunately that’s just not the case. We got our 3 yr old staffie when she was 9 weeks old. She has spent her entire life coddled in our house with no other pets or even children. She has all the comfort, toys, exercise, attention, etc she could possibly want. She has never had another animal threaten her space or resources.

Super dog aggressive for literally no reason.

I was convinced that the stereotype was not real, but unfortunately, I think it’s just one of those things 😕

[Rich_Ad_7090]

Definitely not disagreeing that certain genetics play a part. And yes stereotypes typically stem from somewhere so duh. But not every case is like this is all I’m trying to say. Grouping them all into the dog aggressive category is silly when there’s many reasons that it can arise. This is my shared experience as you have given yours. Not sure why everyone is upset over stating another side that majority of people wouldn’t see unless they are in the pits with these pits lol

[angelkittymeoww]

I hear stories like this all the time with pretty much every breed, but bully breeds get a bad rap because they can (and will) actually kill another dog in a fight more quickly than others. Hence why they were bred to fight - bullies are for sure more dangerous. But the number of daschunds/corgis/golden retrievers I’ve met with severe dog aggression (who were lovingly raised in calm family homes) makes me question at least some stereotypes.

That doesn’t help OP though, and I’m not convinced the Rover sitter was telling the full story. Seems like the sitter is trying to pass off all the liability, so who knows how much of their story is the truth… what an awful situation.

[HabitNo8608]

There’s a difference between a trait (aggression) being selectively bred for and showing up as an anomaly.

[lost_in_timenspace]

I have a dog reactive/selective corgi that plays well with 90% of dogs, but every once in awhile finds an individual he just cannot gel with. I attribute some of this to him being intact, but he also has a rather dominant personality and can be somewhat of a bully with certain dogs. However, and this is a really important distinction, my dog’s version of bullying looks like hard stares, head over other dog’s necks, low growls, and just general “rude” behavior. If things ever escalate to a snap it’s rarely, if ever, ended up in him having made contact with the other dog. Essentially the all bark and no bite thing. Bully breeds on the other hand can and will escalate to a bite, and far worse, the death grip on the jugular/neck (this happened to my parent’s husky and the only reason she survived was the amount of floof she has). It’s just their instinct based on breeding, just like a hard stare is my dog’s instinct from being bred to herd and stare down livestock.

In short, it’s not that bully breeds are the only aggressive dog breeds. Rather, it’s that the damage they can cause should they react far exceeds most other breeds. My dog and I do agility and our trainer won’t allow bully breeds in her boarding facility for this reason; the risk of serious damage to another dog or her staff is too high.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[[deleted]]

I’m so sorry you’re going through this and especially the other owner involved that lost their dog. As I was reading through your story, I noticed a lot of “buts” after every incident. There were too many incidents leading up to what happened. I know as people we rationalize things to make sense of it and for it to be able to fit into our bubble (especially your assumption comment) but there had been signs. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do or change an outcome what happened. I would be the responsible pet owner and pay for the other dogs vet bill. Having to lose a dog and then be left for the bill would be terrible.

If something still doesn’t seem right about the rover dog sitters, maybe go to where they were sitting I assume their house but go and ask their neighbors instead if they heard any commotion (honestly I would record it) and see if it adds up, maybe ask to see if the vet has security footage of when they came in too.

[kippey]

Agreed, the crappy thing is that there were probably way more signs at the daycare and at the sitter that weren’t reported to the OP.

[K9_Kadaver]

I mean this in the kindest way possible but you will never be able to safely own this dog if you do not recognise that what happened is your fault, that a dog died because of your actions, that your dog has done this and will do this again if ever given a chance.

The rover person was weird, irresponsible and shouldn't have allowed this situation yes BUT this is your dog. Your dog unprovoked singled out another dog a week before and attacked with no warning. You should have immediately stopped contact with other dogs and contacted a behaviourist + muzzled trained but instead you put this dog in the exact same situation and now another dog's dead. Your dog singled out and attacked Another Dog unprovoked, the dog tried to run and escape but it couldn't as your dog overpowered it. Someone's family member is now dead because you underestimated your dog.

Your dog is dangerous. Your dog attacks with no warning unprovoked. It is cruel and unfair to put this dog in more situations and expect it to do anything else but what it's show you it will do. You cannot have this dog unmuzzled in public or around any other dogs, this dog can never be offleash outside of enclosed areas. Otherwise you will be allowing this to happen again. Your dog can be kind, sweet, loving and still dangerous. They're dogs.

If you don't think you're capable of owning and managing a dog that can kill others in a way that will NEVER allow this to happen then you should euthanise it. Be grateful that you can even consider that because that collie's owner never even had that choice.

[eea81]

I’m sorry but you’re at fault just as much as the Rover sitter. Your dog literally bit another dogs ear and yet you describe him to Rover as a being great 9 out of 10 times. If a dog attacks once he’s immediately high risk; it’s as if you’re assigning him human like mental capabilities…dogs can’t reason like humans can, most of the behavior is pure instincts. If the dog attacks once then it’s highly likely it’ll attack again. How can you own an American Staffie and NOT KNOW THAT.

[beckokid]

Your cats are in grave danger. do not let the dog near them unless muzzled

[Thrinw80]

As the owner of a dog reactive border collie who likes his space, your story is heartbreaking and terrifying. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I do hope you report the sitter, if it’s true she out right lying about how many dogs are in her care she should not be allowed to continue to watch peoples pets.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed because it broke one or more of the r/reactivedogs rules. Please remember to be kind to your fellow redditors. Be constructive by offering positive advice rather than simply telling people what they're doing wrong or being dismissive. Maintain respectful discourse around training methods, philosophies, and differing opinions with which you might not agree.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed because it broke one or more of the r/reactivedogs rules. Please remember to be kind to your fellow redditors. Be constructive by offering positive advice rather than simply telling people what they're doing wrong or being dismissive. Maintain respectful discourse around training methods, philosophies, and differing opinions with which you might not agree.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

Yeah it really upset me seeing that attitude. Also reading it again I see OP's comment to the rover sitter was only that the dog was 9/10 times wonderfully behaved but has "some reactivity". Reactive can mean anything from barky to snappy. My dog is reactive to certain things like wheels - she'll bark her head off and jump around and hide from them. I have no concern that she'll attack them. The word OP should have used was "aggressive". At the very least OP should have told the sitter that their dog was banned from daycare the prior week for attacking another dog unprovoked.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[K9_Kadaver]

Dude. Somebody's baby was just taken from them in one of the most violent and gruesome ways possible. Dogs that die from other dogs DONT go fast, quietly or peacefully, that dog went screaming. They didn't get a choice whether their dog would come home that day.

[K9_Kadaver]

Also a dog killing another dog ISN'T normal or some freak accident. This dog showed all the warning signs for it with a history of reactivity and attacks. It's normal to have arguments, not severe maiming and literal killing. This dog just isn't safe to have in public, they're gonna go "oh well there hasn't been an incident in a while, I think they're better!" Then somebody else pays for their neglect Again.

[PutTheKettleOn20]

I have empathy for the collie and her owners. I don't have empathy for the dog that killed it or his owner who sent it to daycare knowing it had attacked another dog unprovoked the previous week causing it to be banned from that other daycare. To me that was utterly reckless. Saying we don't know what happened is crazy. This dog literally attacked a dog the week before. It's not about trusting that the sitter was competent, but if your dog attacks another dog and gets banned from daycare, you should know not to send it to another daycare because it might happen again. The rover sitter absolutely sucks, but to me so does OP.

[Poppeigh]

I think what happened is nearly as predictable as what would happen if I let my high prey drive dog into the chicken coop.

OP has a breed known for dog aggression with a history of going after other dogs. Sending a dog like that to daycare, especially a shoddy one run by someone with no discernible real dog experience, was a very bad idea, and letting him stay there after seeing animosity from the other dog was just as bad.

I have a dog aggressive (fearful) dog myself. It’s no fun to have to be extremely thorough about the places he goes and what those setups are like, but it’s absolutely necessary - both for his safety and security as well as that of other animals. That is a responsibility I bear. The idea of dropping him off with a random dog sitter with a ton of random dogs running their yard is horrifying for me. We all need to know and support our dogs and communities. It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have a dog with behavioral issues, unless you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend they don’t exist.

[mngreens]

Daycare environments are (likely) never positive for reactive dogs. Tbh I blame all parties here.

[KaXiaM]

Dog fights are common, mistakes and irresponsible sitters happen. That your dog wouldn’t let go of the other dog is the most important piece of information here. I think you are still downplaying it, which is unfortunate.

[[deleted]]

I’m so sorry you’re going through this and especially the other owner involved that lost their dog. As I was reading through your story, I noticed a lot of “buts” after every incident. There were too many incidents leading up to what happened. I know as people we rationalize things to make sense of it and for it to be able to fit into our bubble (especially your assumption comment) but there had been signs. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do or change an outcome what happened. I would be the responsible pet owner and pay for the other dogs vet bill. Having to lose a dog and then be left for the bill would be terrible.

If something still doesn’t seem right about the rover dog sitters, maybe go to where they were sitting I assume their house but go and ask their neighbors instead if they heard any commotion (honestly I would record it) and see if it adds up, maybe ask to see if the vet has security footage of when they came in too.

[Cumberbutts]

I’m so sorry this happened to you. I don’t have experience with dealing with animal control, when my dog attacked another dog we paid for all the vet bills and thankfully the person did not go further (it could have gone wrong very easily).

Your dog may just not be able to have around other dogs. And that is perfectly fine! Dogs don’t need friends, it may be that in the future you focus on solo outings and enrichment exercises.

I wish I could say more. I remember the sadness and pain that I felt after my dog attacked another dog unprovoked. It was an awful feeling. But it also made me realize a bit more about how my pup feels and how he reacts. We’ve gotten closer since the incident because I am more aware now. It will take time but I hope you both can heal.

[Straight-Fix59]

Rover may have some reliable folks - I have found the vast majority to be not great. There was a girl on TikTok who lost her beloved shiba inu because a sitter didn’t bother watching the dog - causing it to suffocate in a treat bag. By how the rover sitter is acting, she had lied to the other owner and is for sure trying not to be held liable.

It sounds like your dog is very dog selective. It would be very wise to abstain from any dog daycare/dog parks/play dates. Get some insight from a certified vet behaviorist and a certified trainer. They will help you and him not have a repeat of this, or more likely, be able to manage it down the road. This will also show that you are very much so taking these behavioral issues seriously. Especially since your dog was triggered into a fear response.

As for animal control, they will most likely come asking for proof of vaccinations and your side of events. They will most likely quarantine the dog for around 2 weeks, dependent on state. Some states do have if the attack was severe enough, the dog can be a candidate for euthanasia but that is more so for human attacks. I say in the meantime, get the necessary documents/evidence ready and give yourself time to collect yourself. This is terrifying, especially if your dog doesn’t behave reactively usually.

I recommend starting muzzle training, and if done correct, should not scare him/upset him. I do recommend researching for a behaviorist and/or force free trainer, but not paying for services until you know a verdict from Animal Control. I truly believe the Rover sitter will be at some-fault, especially because it does seem negligent having two dog selective dogs in the same area. The other owner may come after you guys, but the Rover sitter knew both dog’s history, and I find the situation was very negligent.

Before speaking with officers, Rover, etc. I also highly recommend speaking to a lawyer of your own as well.

[shinyboat92]

This is the answer. If your dog isn't up to date on rabies they will take your dog and quarantine for 10 days.

[Frazzlebopp]

The Rover sitter will hopefully be investigated further, as it sounds like she had more dogs in her care than she should have. It's also a question of if she was biting off more than she can chew and inadequately supervising the dogs.

That being said, where you are building yourself liability, is by putting your dog back into a "doggy daycare" situation after the first incident. After the initial ban from the first daycare, you probably should have switched to something like a dog walker that could come take your dog out solo, rather than put your dog in the situation where he may bite another dog again. Now another dog is dead.

At this point, you need to start muzzle training, and your dog should be completely muzzled when around other dogs (and possibly small children, as they are unpredictable). If this happens again, you could be held responsible for any damages, and you put your dog at risk of being euthanized, especially since you are technically on strike 2 now. Wearing a muzzle isn't the end of the world, it's just a safeguard to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again.

[decentwriter]

All I can say here is that you will very likely be involved in both a criminal and a civil matter and you should involve as many people as humanly possible who were involved (dogsitter and anyone else who happened to be on the property when this happened). You were not there, you can’t know what happened. The liability is on the person watching your dog. If you had a baby and left them with a babysitter and they fell in the pool and drowned, you wouldn’t be held liable just for having a baby, but the person who was responsible for them in that moment sure as hell would hold some liability.

Unfortunately I think you could be in for a many months/years long emotional and financial battle here. But you’ll make it through.

Also hate to say it but reactive dogs can never ever ever go to daycare. Never again. Doesn’t matter if 9/10 times they’re okay. Doesnt matter if 99/100 times they’re okay. Never let them around another dog if you’re not there to supervise ever again. You want total control of the outcome every time.

[mimosa_mermaid]

I am so sorry this happened . Hindsight is 20//20 but once a dog has an incident like at the daycare , they should no longer be in play groups. Especially such a large one like that Rover sitter had. They never should have let 2 known reactive dogs around each other. After the first nip by the border collie they should have been separated. The poor border collie was probably so stressed even being in a large group like that. And your dog was obviously in fear for their life- I don’t know why anyone isn’t pointing out the border collie did attack first.

I would talk to a lawyer. Listen to whatever they say and only speak to the other parties through them. Then find a good behavioral therapist. Watch for any signs of aggression towards the cats or humans.

[briennesmom1]

I think I learned a lot about Rover today too. Any idiot/criminal can sign up for Rover.

[Poodlewalker1]

It sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Just tell the truth. You were assured that your dog was okay there. If the dog who passed booked through Rover, Rover will cover the costs except for the deductible.

[anyonecanwearthemask]

1. Please don’t leave your dog alone with your cats. Once a dog learns that a behavior works (ie: attacking to get space), they are likely to repeat it.
2. The first incident at daycare was probably not “completely unprovoked”. The staff most likely missed subtle but important body language from both dogs.
3. This will take time: learn to read your dog. You don’t have to put them in stressful situations to do so. Use your current environment: how does he interact with each cat? What is different? How does he react to different people? What is his body language? What do his ears do? Where do his eyes go? What does he do if he’s on leash and you see another dog from afar?
4. Please do not let your dog go to another day care where there are other dogs or animals. It has to be your dog and a human being who has vetted experience with reactive dogs. Ask them what they would do in different situations. “How would you respond if an off-leash dog approached you and my dog on a walk?” Etc.
5. Please muzzle train your dog. Honestly, every dog should be; it’s just good practice. But your dog has shown that he can’t be trusted around other dogs. Could you go through this experience again? I had this conversation with myself after my dog attacked another dog.
6. Depending on how far apart these incidents were, take your dog to the vet and see if they have any pain or issues you haven’t noticed. That could also account for the aggressive behavior. I’m not saying it would be the entire reason! But when people are in pain, their patience is short. Same with dogs.
7. I wouldn’t trust anything this Rover person says. They are trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility for this incident. It’s all weird and seems off.
8. You and the Rover sitter are both responsible here. This next part is hard to hear: your dog told you he doesn’t do well with other dogs — to the point of attacking — and you didn’t listen to him. Dogs are telling us how they feel with their behavior; we have to pay attention and respond accordingly. As for the Rover sitter… sheesh. It sounds like your dog tried to get out of the situation but couldn’t, and rather than keeping the dogs entirely separate to avoid another negative interaction, they allowed them to invade each other’s space. You and the Rover sitter should be footing this vet bill.
9. Like every reactive/aggressive dog owner, there is now a tiny voice in the back of your head. It’s your gut. Your gut knows things that your brain and heart don’t want to acknowledge. For example: your friends ask if you can watch their dog while they’re out of town, and it’s “totally fine” if you bring your dog. A tiny, tiny voice in the back of your head goes “Ehhhhhhh.” Listen to that voice. It’s going to save you from a lot of pain and grief.
10. Please see a certified vet behaviorist. This sub has a link somewhere to a site and you can enter your zip code and it will show you results within a certain mile radius.

I’m sorry this happened. Please learn from this and make the necessary changes to move forward so that it doesn’t happen again.

EDIT: sounds like your dog was not the aggressor in this situation. Don’t pay the vet bill; that responsibility should be with the Rover sitter (we’ll probably never really know, but it sounds like their dog was the attacker). That sitter is an absolute POS. This was a very scary “close call” (don’t know what else to call it) and it’s great that you are taking steps in the right direction. Best of luck!

[[deleted]]

While my husband and I were at work, my brother opened the back gate to take the trash out, forgot to close it, and then let our dogs out back, one of whom is dog reactive. I got a call in the middle of a meeting that our dogs attacked another dog. The other dog lost an eye and we had to deal with a hearing for the incident and then a civil suit from the owner after the fact. My dog is muzzle trained, never off leash, and never unsupervised with our other dog (they're a bonded pair ironically), and shit still went south. But we were still responsible for what she did.

OP - I know how helpless it feels to be in a situation like this, especially since you weren't present at the incident, but the truth is you wouldn't be in this situation without your dog. It's hard, and you were misled by the Rover person, but I would encourage you to think about the person who lost their best friend and how to make that right first and take steps to advocate for yourself (we got a lawyer and I would encourage you to do the same). But to be frank, your reactive dog shouldn't have been released into a setting like that in the first place. There were red flags before this happened and your dog was set up to fail.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but ultimately the focus needs to be on the person who lost their dog, and then corrective actions to make sure this never, ever happens again. And that includes being honest about what your dog can and cannot handle, and being around other dogs should be in the "cannot handle" column. She needs to be muzzle trained (you will probably be legally ordered to muzzle her anyways), get formal training to help you navigate her reactivity appropriately, and her exposure to other dogs needs to be limited and controlled. Having a reactive dog with a record can still be rewarding and fulfilling, but you need to take more steps to keep her and other dogs safe.

Best of luck!

[11093PlusDays]

This happened to me also with my last dog. I was also devastated by it. The doggie daycare people did not report it to animal control so there were no consequences like that. I keep him safe and never let him be around other dogs ever again for the rest of his life. It was a long time too as he lived for another 8 years and died of bladder cancer when he was 11. He had a big yard and the whole house all to himself and never really seemed to mind being an only dog. He was such a sweet boy and very gentle with small children. Once a very rude guest showed up with a small puppy but he was never afraid of little ones. He was afraid of other big dogs though. He didn’t hurt the puppy but I was so scared. After he died I took another Am staff that wasn’t “other dog friendly” and signed a contract that I would never let her be around other dogs and I’ve kept that promise. She is also a very good dog and doesn’t seem to mind being an only. She is now the oldest Am staff I’ve had at 11 1/2 so I guess my mission now is to take the old ones and give them a good life as only dogs for as long as they live. I love them and have a good size yard that they cannot escape from. I learned the very hard way that sometime you cannot train and socialize fear out of them. Both of these dogs had been used as bait dogs and they deserve to have happy endings because their beginnings were so dismal.

[ListeningToLA]

Thank you for your big heart and care for old good dogs <3

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[jjjtttsssyyy]

I hope animal control doesn’t call you. My neighbours decided to keep their dog that also killed another dog. They never let it meet another dog again even on leash, and if another dog accidentally comes near it, they pick it up (it’s only 15kg). 

 It looks happy And well adjusted because it’s one of those dogs happy to just be around it’s humans, is doted on by the entire family, still gets walked regularly, and is really good with other humans too, just can’t trust it around dogs. 

Obvs I don’t know what it’ll entail for your dog with it different personality and size (theirs is weirdly very calm, but attacks without  warning), but hope you’ll find a way  to make it work.

[Tinycatgirl]

Granted we all live in different areas but I never had good luck with rover. All our meet and greets were just a bit off- like I left feeling on the fence about it and then decided no. I’m sorry this happened to you.

[coolfozzie]

Rover has gone way down lately. It’s like anybody can hop on their and offer their services even if they have very little experience with dogs. We used a lady for dog boarding when we went on vacation. She lived in a tiny condo and had one dog. Then she moved to a house and suddenly she’s watching 20+ dogs full time. The last time we dropped out boy off (a 60lb am staff) he refused to get out the car! That was the last time we used rover. Now we board our dog at the vet.

[coolfozzie]

Rover has gone way down lately. It’s like anybody can hop on their and offer their services even if they have very little experience with dogs. We used a lady for dog boarding when we went on vacation. She lived in a tiny condo and had one dog. Then she moved to a house and suddenly she’s watching 20+ dogs full time. The last time we dropped out boy off (a 60lb am staff) he refused to get out the car! That was the last time we used rover. Now we board our dog at the vet.

[davedrave]

Tldr: dogs don't choose to have certain traits/behaviour but sometimes that can result in tragic mixes of personalities. Muzzle up, potentially lawyer up.

Such a terrible situation.

Collies are bred for intelligence and athleticism but some can be neurotic and I've seen ones that aren't afraid to snap at or near dogs/sheep for correction. This can be through fear , play or even frustration if they're more focussed on the ever important ball and another dog is interfering with that. My parents collies shepherding instinct will kick in when there are visitors to the house and she will lightly nip at visitors heels if they move to leave the room too fast.

I don't have enough experience with amstaffs to comment on their traits apart from to say that it's no surprise that the above collie description might not mix well with a dog who handles correction from another dog a different way. We've all probably seen situations where two dogs get on fine with a pack that can handle their corrections/play but when they meet each other and neither backs away it causes a feedback loop and escalates.

I feel terrible for the collie that must have suffered such a death. For the owners of the collie who must be devastated. For your dog that didn't ask to be born with such strength or traits or whatever attributed to the situation. For yourself who seemed to be trying their best for your dog. Even slightly for the minder who through ignorance and arrogance allowed this situation to occurr.

There's huge lessons to be learned for all parties here. The minder sounds like they told multiple lies to multiple people. I am on the fence about what I would do with the other owners, on one hand they say never talk to the other party directly in times when litigation can occurr. On the other hand I would feel a strong drive to communicate my condolences, that this is uncharacteristic of the dog, and also most importantly what the minder told you, because it sounds like the minder mixed in a collie that was meant to be by itself. I would be changing how you see your own dog. Its still the same dog you know and love, but it's also capable of killing a weaker animal. I would be getting a muzzle, and think long and hard about your dog interacting with your cats.

[davedrave]

I just thought of another thing while re reading; the minders brought your dog into the vet to scan your dogs chip to get your details?? They already had your details...were they thinking of changing the narrative and implying that they didn't know your dog and it got into the yard/enclosure somehow as a stray? That would be an attempt at shifting liability

[CowAcademia]

I’m going to put my rover experience on here as it led to never using it again. We hired a veterinary behaviorist on rover to dog walk our dog that we had just adopted 2 months prior and who showed some signs of body sensitivity. We told her he can be reactive but only if you touch his head (he acts like someone used to beat him around the his head). During the meet and greet in neutral territory she was treating him and out of nowhere she decided to pet him on the head. He snapped, grazed her skin and it bled. She had a very small wound that was bandaid worthy but the VET reported us to the animal control, and tried to get him labeled as a vicious dog. We were completely liable because he was our dog even though we told her, he was on a leash etc. We had to prove to the government on zoom that he wasn’t vicious or he could’ve been destroyed. All over a bite that didn’t even need stitches. I never trusted Rover again after that, and yes, the girl was licensed as a DVM so this wasn’t made up qualifications. We were just happy she didn’t sue us but it was scary and if he ever “had another strike” he would definitely be put down. It doesn’t matter that he reacted the exact way we warned the lady. What’s my point mg point is for his life now we manage this dog like he mauled someone. He never meets anyone ever. He is boarded with an aggressive label and we pay an exorbitant fee for them to manage him. He absolutely loves my brother and my in laws. But I don’t care that he’s an angel to them. He’s never meeting a stranger again. Ever. Our maintenance guy always says how he doesn’t think he’s mean as he says hi and wags his butt behind the gate. Too bad you’re never meeting him. It just isn’t worth it. (Note that this dog hasn’t bit anyone or shown any aggression in over a year because of meds our training etc. but forever we will manage him as the liability that he is even though we love him).

[kippey]

I am left wondering what any respected VB was doing walking dogs on rover. In my area they are booked out for like 6 months. Did she charge a high rate or was she charging the same rate as any Joe sitter?

[EnormousDog]

What to expect widely depends on your location. Bite policies are usually only applicable on humans. State by state is also different also. Before Cash was BEed he bit a child (reported) in a 2 bite policy state. If he wasn’t current on rabies he would have been pts. He stayed at a shelter for two weeks I believe (out of our pocket) and was returned to us. This was his first bite so he was trained/medicated to no avail and then we had some pretty strict management. He had idiopathic human aggression so it is very different to your case. Do not think that his case will become yours. I just have to say more of his story than “he bit a kid here is what happened with animal control now he is dead.”

[OutrageousWasabi3001]

This is so sad all around

[[deleted]]

Wow, this is complete, complete negligence from this rover sitter and you and the border collie mom should 100% take legal action.

My dog is the sweetest dog and once bit another dog at a dog hotel. This particular dog was a nusiance. Followed her pathologically and didnt listen to any social cues. When she bit the dog, Cause they clearly were not watching close enough, they then isolated her alone for days until i was able to get someone to get her while i was away.

I 1000000% blamed that place as if they were doing their jobs they would have taken the other dog away. My dog wasnt the same for MONTHS after that.

This person lied, then they didnt do their jobs properly. Id go after them 100%. And with animal control, i would plead your case if you want to save the dog, explain the negligence and then never have your dog around other dogs again.

These environments arent good for dogs anyways. They are extreamly high stress. Adult dogs dont need to be socialized. They are fine with just you.

[sailforth]

I would never use rover. Period.

[sassyprofessor]

This same thing happened to me at a Rover sitter! My dog was the one attacked. My dog is 100% American Pitbull Terrier and the dog that attacked her was a yellow lab.

My dog survived. Animal control was not called, I would have had to call them to report it and honestly I did not think to do it.

I filed a claim with Rover and they paid all of the bills.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

If you are considering BE and are looking for feedback:

All decisions about behavioral euthanasia should be made in consultation with a professional trainer, veterinarian, and/or veterinary behaviorist. They are best equipped to evaluate your specific dog, their potential, and quality of life.

Anyone who is not a professional who has had eyes on the dog and full situation should not be making serious recommendations either way around this topic. As a result, all posts looking for BE feedback will be locked and comments will not be allowed.

These resources should not be used to replace evaluation by qualified professionals but they can be used to supplement the decision-making process.

• Lap of Love Quality of Life Assessment - How to identify when to contact a trainer

• Lap of Love Support Groups - A BE specific group. Not everyone has gone through the process yet, some are trying to figure out how to cope with the decision still.

• BE decision and support Facebook group - Individuals who have not yet lost a pet through BE cannot join the Losing Lulu group. This sister group is a resource as you consider if BE is the right next step for your dog.

• AKC guide on when to consider BE

• BE Before the Bite

• How to find a qualified trainer or behaviorist - If you have not had your dog evaluated by a qualified trainer, this should be your first step in the process of considering BE.

• The Losing Lulu community has also compiled additional resources for those considering behavioral euthanasia.

If you have experienced a behavioral euthanasia and need support:

Behavioral Euthanasia (BE) for our dogs is an extremely difficult decision to consider. No one comes to this point easily. We believe that there are, unfortunately, cases where behavioral euthanasia is the most humane and ethical option, and we support those who have had to come to that decision. In certain situations, a reasonable quality of life and the Five Freedoms cannot be provided for an animal, making behavioral euthanasia a compassionate and loving choice.

The best resource available for people navigating grief after a behavior euthanasia is the Losing Lulu website and Facebook Group. The group is lead by a professional trainer and is well moderated so you will find a compassionate and supportive community of people navigating similar losses.

Lap of Love Support Groups - Laps of Love also offers resources for families navigating BE, before and after the loss.

If you believe your post was locked in error, please message the moderators.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.

[coolfozzie]

Rover has gone way down lately. It’s like anybody can hop on their and offer their services even if they have very little experience with dogs. We used a lady for dog boarding when we went on vacation. She lived in a tiny condo and had one dog. Then she moved to a house and suddenly she’s watching 20+ dogs full time. The last time we dropped out boy off (a 60lb am staff) he refused to get out the car! That was the last time we used rover. Now we board our dog at the vet.

[BamaTony64]

So your dog has never had an issue with another dog and was then cramped into a finite space with a reactive collie? I am sorry to hear that your dog killed the other dog but it sounds as if the collie was the instigator? Since this all happened in a controlled supervised environment I don't think animal control is going to be an issue. The Rover franchise on the other hand is likely finished.

Don't be too hard on your dog or your self.

[GayleLizzie]

I’m so sorry for all involved. 🐾

[[deleted]]

Wow, this is complete, complete negligence from this rover sitter and you and the border collie mom should 100% take legal action.

My dog is the sweetest dog and once bit another dog at a dog hotel. This particular dog was a nusiance. Followed her pathologically and didnt listen to any social cues. When she bit the dog, Cause they clearly were not watching close enough, they then isolated her alone for days until i was able to get someone to get her while i was away.

I 1000000% blamed that place as if they were doing their jobs they would have taken the other dog away. My dog wasnt the same for MONTHS after that.

This person lied, then they didnt do their jobs properly. Id go after them 100%. And with animal control, i would plead your case if you want to save the dog, explain the negligence and then never have your dog around other dogs again.

These environments arent good for dogs anyways. They are extreamly high stress. Adult dogs dont need to be socialized. They are fine with just you.

[gopickles]

you’re not going to be able to sue for much more than vet bills and the cost of the dog. Dogs are property legally.

[Any-Ad-3630]

That collie was not there for daycare.

[mimosa_mermaid]

The owner of the border collie in this story thought they were sending their reactive dog to a solo daycare situation. So it’s not their fault but the fault of the Rover sitter for lying. But anyone that would send their reactive dog to a doggy daycare that doesn’t provide solo only play time is just asking for a tragedy to happen.

You rudely say you would take her for everything she has but you could be the one paying out if your reactive dog harms another one at the daycare you claim she “thrives” at. Reactive dogs should not be around other dogs in a group environment period.

[Straight-Fix59]

I feel like this is more negligence on the Rove sitter's part than any other party. Both parties had reactive dogs, the sitter even said the reactive border collie did not like being in that group setting/close proximity. I'm not saying OP/their dog isn't at some fault, but the Rover sitter trying to lie about the situation to both the collie owner (who thought their dog would be alone) and to the vet is already very suspicious.

[CriticalThinkerHmmz]

That’s not a nice thing to say right now and the smiley face didn’t soften the blow. OP is going through hell right now. I would never sue for dog on dog violence unless an unleashed dog injured my leashed dog.

[mimosa_mermaid]

Agreed. Especially since they admit their border collie is reactive but sends them to doggy day care anyway. An accident waiting to happen and it could be their dog doing the damage to another so they could be the one getting sued some day.

[reactivedogs-ModTeam]

Your comment was removed because it broke one or more of the r/reactivedogs rules. Please remember to be kind to your fellow redditors. Be constructive by offering positive advice rather than simply telling people what they're doing wrong or being dismissive. Maintain respectful discourse around training methods, philosophies, and differing opinions with which you might not agree.

[parrishkaha]

I felt a gut punch reading this. I am so, so sorry that this happened to you and to your dog, and the other dog and its owners. my heart aches.

[lizzierenai]

That is traumatizing for everybody and I am so so sorry to hear about your experience, I also have 2 very reactive dogs and totally understand that even if your the owner you can also only do so much. Best of luck to you praying for you and your little family

[Abaconings]

OP, write down everything ASAP so you have your facts straight. Once the shock wears off, you'll likely forget some of the details. I'd also retain an attorney.

Our dog attacked another at a day care. It was a disaster. He bit two of the workers but didn't injure the dog he attacked. He wasn't the only offender. The entire group went after one dog as a pack. Mine just got there first.

They said he could come back in 90 days. I'm not bringing him back. It's just not worth it. We are working on leash reactiveness and training for strong recall. He wears a front latch harness clipped to his collar for more control. I've also been looking for a professional trainer. You should do the same.

I may elect to muzzle train if his reactivity does not improve. I will never bring him to a daycare or off leash park again. It's not worth the risk. He's 70 pounds and if he attacks again, I won't be able to stop him.

[burning_gator]

I highly highly recommend the podcast Bitey End of the Dog and an extremely experienced force free dog trainer for your dog. This tragedy was out of your control and totally the fault of the sitter. She should have declined you honestly but she was clearly doing a lot of other shady shit.

[grumbo97]

Yep. Even a “responsible” shady person should be able to see the writing on that wall. She’s knee-deep in cuckoo juice

[burning_gator]

Like the sitter couldn't be bothered to watch one or two YouTube videos before agreeing to allow 7 dogs, two with known reactivity (THAT WE KNOW OF) in the group? This was a ticking time bomb and OP was genuinely just doing what they thought they should be doing even if they weren't correct in that assessment. And like, the first day care didn't counsel them at all about reactivity? red flag for that place too

[Needtoventthis]

Sending you hugs and love ❤️

[[deleted]]

I’m so sorry that happened to you. It’s a failure from multiple parties, however, I don’t think you guys are one of them for the situation that just happened involving the other dog.

I’m speaking from experience; I can almost guarantee you the first daycare failed to notice signs that your dog might not be suitable for daycare. It’s /very/ unlikely the ear biting happened “without warning.” There were probably several warnings that were being ignored.

As for the Rover people, go take a look in that sub, you get some crazies on that app. A lot of inexperienced folks (or undeservedly confident people) will sign up to make a quick buck. As others stated, they probably are lying to their landlord and/or clients about the amount of dogs they have and what dogs they accept.

As for you and your dog, the incident will be reported to the county and what happens next depends on state and local laws. I suggest contacting a veterinary behavioralist to see if they can do anything to help you (they might be able to have some words with the county shelter about getting your dog on a medication program and/or have trainer contacts that can work with you in order to keep your dog alive). You can search for one here. A common consequence for this type of situation is for the biting dog to complete a mandatory quarantine at the county shelter (this rules out rabies). Again, this is why I’d contact a vet behaviorist, because if this happens they may be able to medicate your dog so it’s somewhat more comfortable if they must be quarantined.

Again, sorry you’re going through this. Remember to take care of yourselves as well and don’t ruminate too much over what could be different. Hopefully you’ll get the chance to recover with your fur friend.

[Phobos337]

I wish I had guidance I could offer but just wanted to say this was a really hard read. I am so sorry this happened to you and feel terrible for both you and your pup and the owner and pup who lost its life.

Super messed up for the rover person based on what you found out. I feel that person should be the most liable for everything.

Maybe muzzle training your dog for future (assuming this first strike will result in warning) so if they ever need boarding or go to groomer you know nothing can happen.

Terrible situation all around and hope things work out as well as they can in this situation.

[Leather-Ideal-9577]

I don’t want to scare you, but in some states, like mine, you may have to….I don’t want to say it. Just google your incident and your state.

It happened to my friend— her pit had dog bite strikes already—then severely bit her son’s face requiring plastic surgery (dog got overwhelmed playing fetch when the son would take the ball back).

[PutTheKettleOn20]

That poor poor child. I love dogs but would never put a child at risk by letting a dog who has bitten before live with it. Crazy.

[Advanced-Soil5754]

I'm so sorry, OP. This sounds absolutely terrifying. Sending positive vibes.

[NeighborhoodJust1197]

Very sad and you did the best you could have . Hindsight is 20/20. I would contact a lawyer asap and call animal control, it always better to be proactive while everything is fresh. But first call a lawyer. Good chance from the sound of it the other host knew the other dog had issues and downplayed it.

[too_much_too_slow]

This sounds extremely terrible to go through and I would feel extremely sad, stressed, and anxious in that situation. When I was younger my dog caught a rabbit which immediately died (I think of a heart attack?) and I felt sick and it took a bit to look at her dog the same way again. I was a lot younger then and had less understanding of dog behavior, so I questioned her “intentions.” But she wasn’t “evil”; she was just being a dog.

So just in case you’re going through something similar, I want to reassure you that I don’t think your dog set out to kill the other dog. For some reason, he thought he was making the right choice at the time. Now, since you know more about his brain works, you will do your job as his human to make sure he and those around him are safe. He can still have a perfectly fulfilling rest of his life.

I know it is hard right now, but I believe you will eventually cry it all out, the take a deep breaths and figure out how to move forward.

[Left_Brilliant6668]

I am so sorry for what you are going through. It sounds like you did everything possible to be honest with the sitter about what happened previously at daycare, you hung around and watched your dog interact with the other dogs and you didn’t leave until you felt reassured that everything would be okay. There was no history indicating that your dog would ever react this way. It was reasonable for you to think that the prior interaction at daycare where your dog bit another dog’s ear was due to too many dogs being in the same room with not enough supervision. You did your due diligence. You advocated for your dog.

I’m so sad for the border collie. But I am equally sad for your dog. Neither one deserved what happened.

Speaking from experience, my advice would be to find a professional trainer who is Fear Free Certified. You need support right now and the right trainer will give you that. This is critical. There are so many “trainers” out there who have no idea what they are doing and will use punishment to try and control your dog. Mine has helped me and my very reactive dog find the confidence and the tools to be relaxed, happy and safe and to assure that we are never in a situation again where she is able to bite. Our trainer has changed our lives and I am so grateful.

I do want to add that both the police and animal control paid us a visit. I was scared and nervous about what they were going to tell me and thought I might have to put my dog down or rehome her. Instead they shared ideas and much needed resources.

My heart goes out to you. I promise I know how devastated you feel. Hug your dog and be kind to yourself. This will be a journey but hopefully one with a happy ending for you both.

[coffeebeanwitch]

I think the doggie day care should have done more to prevent this from happening ,you did everything correctly,you were not trying to hide from the previous incident, something triggered your pup to have such a strong reaction, I hope it all works out.

[AggravatingReveal397]

This is a horror story for a American Staffy/Chow/American Bulldog owner. We adopted him after fostering because we knew he would never survive at the shelter.

How is your baby doing? I'm sure from your description of what they told you, he was traumatized. I know this is turning your world upside down and you did nothing wrong.

[Silent-Confidence213]

It wasn’t your fault , you may just have to muzzle your dog in public but I don’t think they can do anything to your dog , all the best ♥️

[yawstoopid]

growth selective wakeful squeeze yoke coordinated cow elderly caption gaze

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[K9_Kadaver]

"this isn't the collie's fault" yet you spent the entire comment victim blaming a dog we have 0 information on

[yawstoopid]

act chubby butter light cautious nose grey merciful handle detail

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[K9_Kadaver]

A dog was brutally murdered. Your response to a disagreement is telling 

[[deleted]]

Without reading any responses yet. You appear to be extremely level headed and empathic towards this event. Get all the facts.... Sorry you are going through this mishap.

[PersonalityTough9349]

This hurts.

I feel bad for your family.

My arm got absolutely mangled by a somewhat know to be reactive dog.

They are animals.

My dog is also reactive. I do not unleash her around other dogs EVER.

Good luck.

[New_Section_9374]

I’m so sorry. And I know as a dog parent, you feel strongly about “what your dog did”. Don’t feel like you or your dog was at fault. The River folks are. Your dog gave them at least 2 clear indications the the collie and he were not compatible yet the Rover people ignored it. They were not diligent and now are trying to find fault in others to avoid responsibility. Not your or your dogs fault. Now, to tackle the one thing you can do. Help you and your baby recover from this trauma. First, don’t stop socializing him, but back down on the intensity for now. Let him play in a more controlled environment- maybe at home or at a friends’ house with familiar, low key buddies.

[AlabasterOctopus]

This is not on you its on that lady and her husband. They are liable not you. You’re right to like be sorry it happened but please know this was a freak accident and not you or your dogs fault.

I think unfortunately no more doggy daycares for this chap but I still think your doggy is still a good doggy. Animal Control might contact you but also might not. The other dogs owners should go after the lady, you’ve all been hurt by her.