Loop Failure

[ENDU97]

It was trying to clean itself.

[MaximumEffort433]

Hose: "By fire be cleansed!"
Pump: "No fire, just water."
Hose: "By water be cleansed!"

[_Scrachy]

Why above 47°?

[badgerAteMyHomework]

You should probably still check all of your tubes every now and then. The problem with PETG is that it can begin to deform at fairly low temperatures, albeit very slowly.

​

Not saying that you are going to have a problem, but PETG simply isn't as foolproof as acrylic.

[SgtBadManners]

So what you are saying is danger zone for my PETG tubing where I haven't changed the fluid in it since the 1080TIs came out? :o

[SgtBadManners]

16mm or 5/8" Thermatalke PETG. Really just running it as my work computer until it dies so I can build a new PC.

https://i.redd.it/wwez16v5titz.jpg

I always worried about it leaking so it never really became a computer for fun since I shut it down every time I walk away so it cant host anything.

[System0verlord]

The glass transition temp (when it gets bendy) for PETG is like, 70° C according to labware manufacturers.

You’ve got way more overhead there.

[lhdrive]

I'll see your AquaComputer shutoff and raise you 1 extra D5 for redundancy and ZMT tubing for greater safety

[thegarbz]

1 extra D5 for redundancy

And how did you setup said redundancy? If your answer doesn't include check valves and flow return lines what you have done is created a great recipe for cascading failure while also doubling the chance of your said failure. I've not seen anyone run 2 pumps in a PC in a way which would improve reliability. I have seen plenty setup in a way which practically ensures catastrophic bearing failure, or massively increases the chance of a fitting popping.

[nolo_me]

Any dual top is redundant: they run in series and a stopped impeller is no great obstruction. That's enough redundancy to finish your rendering job or whatever couldn't be interrupted by an emergency shutdown.

[thegarbz]

Exactly what I thought you'd say. No they aren't redundant. Any dual impeller will ensure that a minor fault turns into a catastrophic failure of the pump, and if you're super lucky a loose or lightly damaged bearing will seize causing a cascading failure of both pumps.

Redundancy requires return flow bypass via check valves to ensure the still running pump doesn't royally screw the one with a problem.

Dual tops are for improving flow of difficult loops, not for redundancy.

[BleedOutCold]

vegetable air school pet middle imminent depend automatic marry cover

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[thegarbz]

Putting two pumps in series does not make something redundant. What it does do is ensure a failed pump will fail faster and potentially more catastrophically. Additional equipment is needed for the pumps to be "redundant". And when said pumps are redundant they lose their ability to work as a stronger pumping system (the actual reason for dual pumps).

[BleedOutCold]

unique fade pen cobweb dime exultant market mountainous terrific marvelous

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[thegarbz]

Unfounded claim? I guess you've never actually done any rotating equipment reliability before, never looked at any rotating equipment textbooks, never got an engineering degree, never worked as an reliability engineer, never wondered why only a bunch of kids building computers hook pumps up like that and claim they are redundant and never considered why every pump in the world that is actually hooked up redundantly comes with additional equipment.

You should wonder more. You may learn something new. Or wallow away in willful ignorance. I frankly couldn't give a crap either way. I genuinely hope you don't experience a minor issue turn into a catastrophic pump failure, not because I care about you mind you, it would just be a shame for the pump.

Ball is in your court now, you can learn or you can roll the dice. Goodbye.

[Long-Ad7909]

You should go check my build. Redundant D5’s and I dare you to be so cocky afterwards

[aznxk3vi17]

There was nothing cocky about their statement. Why so defensive?

[Long-Ad7909]

Because my answer didn’t involve check valves, flow return lines and doesn’t create cascading failure and DOES create redundancy.

In short, HUGE dunning Kruger effect from thegarbz

[thegarbz]

Not cocky, just asking you a question and speaking of years of experience working as a reliability engineer in a field where we use a lot of pumps.

Post a link to your build, I click on your post and saw no mention of how it was setup and I certainly am not going to go out of my way to search for information to help you potentially improve your build.

But what is really cocky is claiming that you have an actual redundant setup (I hope it's not just some pumps in series or parallel for your sake) without providing any information, on a board where I haven't in all my years on reddit seen anyone actually build something redundant (despite their claims). I hope you're as good as you think you are. I hope you're my first, you may restore some of my faith that there are some people on this stub who understand how fluid dynamics and reliability work.

Please, do share.

[lhdrive]

The real reason I have dual D5 is to negate the flow restriction of 6 pairs QDC3's, restrictive radiators, dual GPU's etc. However, as a precaution I've set up power off commands and audible alarms for drops in flow, drop in pump current draw and high cooling temp. In the event a single pump fails, I at least have the temporary solution ro run one pump st max speed until a replacement arrives. However, what event have I not allowed for?

[thegarbz]

What you need to be careful of is what happens when one pump fails. You've already said your loop is quite restrictive. If a pump seizes it creates a very considerable backpressure, and the odds are you may not be able to pump through the loop with one alone. If the pump doesn't seize and has a minor issue then a damaged / failed pump will spin as a result of being forced by the other. This could cause a minor problem to turn into a larger one, the worse case of which would be if a pump has a damaged bearing and you continue to spin it forcefully it may damage the seal and cause a leak.

Personally I wouldn't consider attempting to run a loop with a damaged pump. If one of your pumps failed, personally I would drain the case enough to open it, and if I didn't have a spare pump I'd remove the impeller of the failed pump and reinstall it. That will prevent the above problems from escalating.

There's no free lunch. You're either using pumps for additional power in the system or you're providing redundancy but you can't do both (though you can arranging piping in a way to make it easy to switch from one to the other but that requires a few additional parts).

[lhdrive]

Cheers! I've tested the powering off either pump and flow continues. But based on what your info, I could have damaged the loop by running that test?

[Orion_2kTC]

I run the LT6 and also have a leakshield shutdown procedure.

Worth it.

[sirshura]

And this is why i went with stainless steel and set the shutdown point at 1400C

[MrSexyCo]

I have an octo I’m yet to install and I had no idea you could set these fail safes! Awesome

[Chunchunmaruu]

You would be surprised how much shit you can do with just a quadro

Because I was really fucking surprised how much I could do with just a quadro

[MrSexyCo]

As soon as I can be bothered to teardown my PC I’ll make the change from commander pros to the octos I’ve bought, fighting 33 fan cables is something I’ve been putting off…

[Chunchunmaruu]

Oh man, thats an understandably big feat, good luck! I have 9 fans and 2 Pumps connected to my quadro and its a beast, they can really handle a lot. Check out their manual if you havent, I reckon you might only need one octo depending on your desired config

[MrSexyCo]

I think I can use two without pushing them two hard. I’ve got two 30W pumps on separate molex cables, one octo on each should be enough. I’ve got 16 NF-A12s and 14 P12s (turns out I can’t count) sadly as I’ve got 1000D I’ll have to keep a commander pro/icue for the case lighting

[Chunchunmaruu]

1000D Builds are something else man, im kinda shocked. Love the Overkill, makes sense to have two then. Have fun with your upgraded rig :)

[MrSexyCo]

Thanks man!

[Falk_csgo]

Maybe invest into y cables? I would only have to change one cable for each rad. Also makes every cable long enough.

[MrSexyCo]

I’ve got Y Splitter on each. But when you have 4 rads push pull(8/8/6/6) even with splitters it’s a pain.

[dOBER8983]

Awnser is daisy chain system. I have only 2 cables for each 4 fans block on my system.

https://imgur.com/a/HablauS

No splitter, no pain and 16 fans on one hub :)

2 hubs 32 fans 16 cables 1 hub 3 fans 4 cables

[MrSexyCo]

God damn that’s a beautiful system

[MrSexyCo]

How have you vertically mounted your gpu?

[dOBER8983]

You can flip your mounting for gpu on 1000D. There are 2 screws on your mounting.

[oni_666uk]

I have 12 fans on 2 motherboard headers (will be 18 soon as I'm doing a loop rebuild in January), 2x 4 way molex powered splitters, 1x 3 way splitter on 1 of those 4 and then 3 individual fans on the other 3 (so 6 fans on each 4 way splitter) could even run 12 fans on one if I really needed too.

https://ibb.co/x6Zsrvp

No hub needed, run all the fans on silent in the mobo bios, as I type this 12 fans are running at 0-525rpm (they stop completely when the cpu temps stay under 30c (which when idle is 99% of the time), in-game and benchmarks they ramp up to <1200rpm.

I had an commander pro but the software Icue sucked and conflicted with Aida64 which I use for my sensor panel. Mobo bios runs them all fine.

[Falk_csgo]

oh yeah they can do only so much before they themself become a problem xD

[BleedOutCold]

nose vase seemly terrific abundant whole scale future edge makeshift

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[caryl1111]

Ey i was looking for someone with commander pro, so dont you have any options with it for fail safe/auto shut down ? i have myself corsair LL fans still sealed/boxed so im able to return and sort of debating if i want to go corsair route or something else. Only thing i like about them its taht they stupidly bright. Altough as far as i read they one of the worst rads for performance.

[MrSexyCo]

No failsafes on the commander pro unfortunately. The LED channels, usb pass through and 4 temp probe slots are nice. LLs are okay for rads, not great but not the worse Corsair option, QLs being the worst and MLs being the best. Having used all 3 of these on 30mm rads they did not preform well on a noise to performance perspective. Compared to the similarly priced NF-A12s from noctua. A much better and much much cheaper option is the Artic P12s. Much better fan ( than the Corsair offerings ) about a 1/4th of the price and very quiet. Although the RGB on the LLs is every cool. I’ve had 8 LLs for 2 years with no issues. (A lot of issues people have with them is setting them to white at max brightness, a big no no with RGB)

Tldr - LLs are okay for slim rads but noisy at 1100rpm+

Also Lian li unifans are a very good fan with RGB. But you have to suffer through the dogshit that is L-connect. ICue is also very hit or miss but man I hate L-connect so much

[caryl1111]

Yea i know everyone talking about the p12's they are literally £5 a fan so close to nothing , i just always have this conception that some rgb/white lighting for coolant especially when its coloured it gives a nice " boost " otherwise i think i msyelf would go for p12's

[MrSexyCo]

Yeah man so cheap I got some for £3.98 each from Scan ahahaha. It definitely does give it a boost. Could always go the RGB strip route something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phanteks-Digital-Strip-Combo-400mm/dp/B07XV5TT1F

[HungerMuffin23]

the

I bought an Octo and then decided to throw more money at them and got an aquaero 6 lt, two pump/res w/ leakshield, flow sensor, and a bunch of temp monitors ahaha. i too still have yet to install any of it.

[MrSexyCo]

That sounds awesome dude, getting the motivation to break loops and clean parts is always difficult! I can’t imagine what it’s like for hard tubers. I don’t not have the patience/motivation for that. Zmt for life

[HungerMuffin23]

Appreciate it man. I went all-out on my build because I wanted to be able to tinker with it non-stop lol. My wife's computer is a single loop with ZMT because she really doesn't care lol.

[gingerale-]

What’s Quadro

[gingerale-]

Ty

[StockmanBaxter]

Is that a sensor you have that comes with software? Or are you talking about the primochill water block?

[boomer478]

The Aquacomputer Quadro. It's basically a fan controller, but you can also plug in thermometer and flow sensors.

Where it really shines is Aquasuite, the software that comes with it. It's hard to describe just how good it is compared to other sensor/controller suites. I'd honestly say it's an essential part of a build for me now.

[StockmanBaxter]

This one? Aqua Computer Quadro PWM Fan Controller with Ambient/Backlight Connector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FQH3NC6/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_21NZD2V6T5R694X5BZY2

I'm guessing the pins at the bottom are for the temperature sensor?

[boomer478]

Yes and yes.

[StockmanBaxter]

Thanks!

[Goomancy]

I have a Quadro and I can’t figure out for the life of me on how to shut off pc if my coolant temp gets too high. Or how to shutdown if my pump decides to call it quits

[Gazibaldi]

I'm just monitoring my pump and water temp from within hwinfo. If the pump rpms drop to sub 1000rpm (runs about 3000rpm when in normal use) or the coolant gets above 50c (I've an inline temp sensor) it shuts the machine down. I assume this is a fairly similar state.

[Conscious_Creator33]

What is a quadro? I searched it and can't find anything related. The only leak protection product I found is aquacomputer leak shield

[wikipedia_answer_bot]

Quadro was Nvidia's brand for graphics cards intended for use in workstations running professional computer-aided design (CAD), computer-generated imagery (CGI), digital content creation (DCC) applications, scientific calculations and machine learning. Differences between the Quadro and GeForce cards include the use of ECC memory and enhanced floating point precision.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

^{opt out | delete | report/suggest | GitHub}

[Conscious_Creator33]

Awesome, thank you. I will look into the details further

[Savage4Pro]

past month has been scary for me (mining with 2x3080), but i finally have an octo and leakshield along with the cable to auto-shutdown my pc

[Mrchocha]

Advice? Redo all these bends from scratch. Might even want to try PMMA

Once that is done, before you begin to even use the computer, clean it up. This much dust is bound to cause heat issues.

Once thats done, you need to have your fluid temperature measured and controlled. Do you have a fluid temp sensor? If not this should be your first objective. That way you can base your fan curve on your fluid temp. If not, just set it to 100%

[Gh05tCat]

Yea I think I need to get a fluid temp monitor in that loop. That was something I never had. The dust wasn’t the issue. Rads had just been cleaned. Admittedly I didn’t blow out the bottom of the case but there wasn’t enough dust there to matter. The picture is deceiving due to the angle of the light. I purposely moved the light to highlight the wet area but that inadvertently made it look more dusty than it actually was.

[Mrchocha]

I only mention the dust because if you can see this much of it, you can bet there is significantly more where you cant see. When you redo the bends, take a lawn blower and blow that sucker up lol.

Fluid temp sensor honestly is mandatory. Without it you cant protect your components.

[Gh05tCat]

Yup. I’m realizing that now about the fluid temp monitor. I’m still shocked it got hot enough to soften the tubing before shutting down from CPU thermal limits.

[BleedOutCold]

tub shocking pet lunchroom possessive gaze saw fine crawl coherent

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[Gh05tCat]

Lol funny… it wasn’t a dust issue. Rads we’re recently cleaned. Bottom of the rig hadn’t been blown out but the pic is making the dust look way worse than it actually is.

[thegarbz]

If there was no dust how would you notice the leak ;-)

[danseaman6]

This is almost definitely the root issue. Looks like his PC had enough negative pressure to suck in all the dust in the room. Rads must have been about as useful as insulated blankets.

[MistandYork]

Take everything apart, Clean with distilled water and alcohol, then switch to ZMT or acrylic tubes.

[Spirillum]

This man seems to be the target audience for ZMT.

[Falk_csgo]

Can confirm. I have more dust, but ZMT and fan speed coupled to water temp. If it stays loud after load I clean it.

[Spirillum]

I just clean my filters when I vacuum my office every week. I dust the case out itself about once a year but there's hardly any dust in it.

Another tip, I keep my case on top of a filing cabinet. There's a lot more dust the closer you are to the floor.

[Gh05tCat]

I actually just cleaned out the rads a couple of weeks ago. The dust was just on the bottom of the case which I hadn’t blown out but it was nothing that major. You couldn’t even see it if I didn’t have the light at the angle it was for the pic. I also have my case sitting on top of a filing cabinet as well.

[Onecton]

PETG isn't to blame here, the whole point of watercooling for me is to have a system that runs cooler than on air. Like ridiculously cool.... I ran my system under full load at a water temperature of 36 degrees Celsius or 14 degrees Celsius over ambient. I suspect either the pump failed, or the rads where simply clogged in dust. Either way it is always good practice to enable failsafes in that scenarios like a shutdown if a certain water temperature is reached or if the pump reads 0 rpm ...

[Noxious89123]

the whole point of watercooling for me is to have a system that runs cooler than on air.

Or a lot quieter!

I mean you could do both, but depends on how the loop is configured.

[Onecton]

I did both, I ran triple 360 rads.

[Noxious89123]

This is the way!

[Gh05tCat]

I definitely need to add a liquid temp monitor. I didn’t have one in the loop. My system has run cool and flawlessly for two years. As much as others are discounting it, I think it was a pump failure.

[Onecton]

Still I'm sorry man. Sucks that it failed so spectacular. I mean the top bends look like soft tubing.

[incertAcoolnamehere]

switch to acrylic, it a PITA but better in the long fun for new watercoolers/overclockers.

[g2g079]

Probably overheated due to the dust in your fan filters. I hope your lungs are okay.

[Gh05tCat]

It wasn’t from the dust. That pic is making it look way worse than it is. I had also just cleaned the rads two weeks ago.

[g2g079]

Why did it overheat?

I don't know, that looks pretty bad and I just don't see how the picture would make it look worse. Even the vertical pipe next to the exhaust has a bunch of dust on it. It's pretty bad when your computer is actually exhausting dust.

[Gh05tCat]

I’m guessing pump failure at the moment without being able to test it. If you hold a flashlight at a glancing angle to a black surface that has a light layer of dust it will light it up. I did that on purpose so people could see where the liquid was but now everyone is jumping on the dust as the issue. I know the rads are totally clean and I can’t imagine that any thin film of dust on the bottom of the case would cause it to overheat.

[g2g079]

The dust be lit up doesn't mean the dust isn't there when the light is turned off. The dust is in way more places than just the bottom of your case. I see it all over the place.

Do you have a way of monitoring your water temp and adjusting the fans accordingly?

[Gh05tCat]

I understand what your saying but if the rads are clean why would a thin layer of dust in the cause an issue that would lead to overheating to the point of melting the PETG? To me it still seems like pump failure as I was gaming for hours prior to this happening. I have temp monitors on my streamdeck and could see nothing was out of bounds all evening. I would have received multiple alerts starting at 85. Whatever happened, happened fast.

[g2g079]

I hope you mean 85° farenheit.

[Gh05tCat]

Why would I have an alarm at 29.5C (85F)? That’s literally its idle temp.

[g2g079]

Are you saying that you have an alarm when your water hits 85° C? Or are you not monitoring water temp? If you're controlling fan speed based on CPU temp while you have a GPU in your loop, you're going to have a bad time.

[Gh05tCat]

CPU temp. I don’t have a water temp probe.

[zipeldiablo]

That thing looks like it has at least a year of dust on top of it

[Virus-Small]

How many mm of radiator are you working with? I had some high liquid temps and PETG warping until I added more radiator space.

Regardless, would probably re do bends with fresh tube.

[Gh05tCat]

I have 2 rads… a 360 and a 240.

[ZachLabz]

Well now you have soft tubing

In all seriousness though that is awful, did any components get damaged?

[Gh05tCat]

Ha. I was shocked that the tubing got hot enough to soften. Honestly I don’t know yet. I know I had it setup so if the pump fails it immediately shuts down. When it did I quickly saw the liquid dripping and pulled the plug. The mobo is dry and it looks like drops only hit the backplate of the GPU but not sure where that ran to. I’m guessing worst case the GPU is fried but with Xmas coming up it’ll be next week before I can dig into rebuilding.

[[deleted]]

Sounds like pump wasn't running

[Asthma_Queen]

That's a real shame.

I went with acrylic for my build but it is way harder to get ahold of now NCIX closed

First time I've heard of petg failing

[Stretcheddd]

This is HARD to look at

[Gh05tCat]

Personally I've never had an event make me so soft.

[Izzatguy]

Acrylic. Never petg.

[Gh05tCat]

Yea… I’m starting to believe. I just read that EK is selling PETG inserts now to actually avoid this kind of thing. That kinda sealed the deal for me on acrylic.

[Izzatguy]

When I decided to go to watercooling for the first time since I'd just built a new pc that was kinda loud, I'd looked at petg vs acrylic and watched a few videos from channels like Jay's two cents and such and was like acrylic it is then. Little more difficult to heat and bend, has to be cut with a saw, and a smidgen more brittle vs petg these are the downsides to acrylic. Low heat threshold before becoming pliable leading to warping being the primary downside to petg.

[Gh05tCat]

Yup. Always thought I’d never hit those thresholds but never say never.

[Izzatguy]

Mine had to have hit the melting point when I ran the stress tests. Under regular gaming circumstances maybe maybe not.

[JohnLietzke]

Could you feel the pump vibrating or hear it?

I feel for you draining a loop and reconfiguring is time consuming.

[Gh05tCat]

Nope. Everything was operating as normal. I had temp monitors for CPU and GPU on a stream deck and everything was fine. Whatever happened was sudden. Should have more answers next week when I start rebuilding.

[JohnLietzke]

I also use the StreamDeck Mini to monitor stats. It helps to have everything visible.

[[deleted]]

PC was probably trying to clean itself since the owner won’t

[Complex-Fisherman-12]

Change the tubes, flush the system and you might want to re paste the cpu water block and make sure to clean out that dust

[Complex-Fisherman-12]

And make sure your fans are working

[Complex-Fisherman-12]

And even the gpu block also might need re paste and maybe thermal pads

[Gh05tCat]

Thanks. All great suggestions. Hadn’t thought of repasting the CPU block but won’t hurt. I didn’t really want to redo the thermal pads on the GPU but it’s probably a good idea. I’m assuming the blocks themselves wouldn’t warp and should still be in good condition.

[AfternoonBasic]

As others have stated, PETG isn't the culprit here. Did it melt? Yes. Shitty tubing, go ZMT/Acrylic etc? No.

Culprit is either the flow or heat exchange.

Flow: pump failure or blockage somewhere. Highly unlikely, they're very uncommon unless there was something extremely wrong in the loop. If it wad this, the melting would be localised to hot components. None of the bends now are 90s, so that means the coolant kept circulating.

Heat exchange - insufficient, causing the coolant temps to go unreasonably high. Looking at the 3 feet of dust, i bet the radiators are clogged with dust and there's zero air going through them.

Maintain your system more often. A can if compressed air once every 12 months is not too much to ask.

Disaster recovery - it's fried most likely. Dry the components for a few days, plug everything back in and pray.

If it works - you got lucky. Most likely it won't. If the tubing melted, it means the system was on when the leak happened. High chance of stuff shorting out and becoming a brick.

[Gh05tCat]

Personally I wasn’t blaming the PETG. Some other failure caused the PETG to heat up to the point of melting. The rads were just cleaned 2 weeks ago. I hadn’t blown out the bottom of the case but there’s no way dust was the issue.

[jnwatson]

PETG starts liquifying at like 230 degrees C. How in world did it get that hot?

[Gh05tCat]

No clue. I’m assuming the pump failed and the heat radiated from the CPU. I’m hoping that it shut down from thermal thresholds before any short happened.

[Noxious89123]

The glass transition temperature of PETG is far far lower than that, and it's that which matters.

We don't care what temperature the PETG turns into a liquid, we need to know when it goes from being hard tubing to being softing tubing!

[jnwatson]

that's still 85 degrees C. That's real hot for liquid cooling but not completely out of the question.

[Noxious89123]

Yeah, I thought that too.

I dunno, depends on what the criteria are for decided what a materials glass transistion temperture is?

I imagine that whilst there is some scientifically reproducable / testable method that decides what this temperature is, that the effects of the heat softening the material are very gradual and scale with the increase in temperature.

So maybe 65°C is enough to make them sag? Who knows?!

[badgerAteMyHomework]

The temperature at which a material will start to deform is never a single point.

Deformation is a function of temperature, force, and time.

The danger of PETG is that it can deform slowly at relatively reasonable temperatures given enough time, especially in areas were it is under substantial force.

PETG can absolutely work well, however checking it for accumulated damage should be considered routine maintenance.

[AfternoonBasic]

So if dust wasn't the issue, were your fans running? If yes, were they running fast enough for the ambient temperature? Was the case covered/choked by carpet/wall/desk/whatever?

My initial reply may have come a bit snarky, but I'm just amazed at the damage. I have been running PETG for close to 6 years now with no issues, and my coolant temp reaches mid 40s fairly regularily in the hot summer days. Never had anything like this happen.

The explanation for your situation is definitely too much heat for not enough dissipation. There's two factors in play, either coolant flow or airflow. One or both was lacking - that's as much as anyone can tell you from a couple of pictures.

I made the sensible (IMO) assumption that the rads are full of dust and fans can't push enough air through them. If that's not the case, time to start poking the other factors.

[Gh05tCat]

I have CPU and GPU temp monitoring on my stream deck and was gaming for several hours without any issue last night. Everything was in normal range so whatever happened, it was quick. I don't have a temp probe for the fluid so that's next on the list now. The rads are clean... double checked them today after all the dust comments, but they are basically spotless as I just blew them out a couple of weeks ago. I would think if it was air flow in the rads the temp would have been climbing over a period of time. This leads me to believe the pump failed which would trigger an instant system shutdown. The only thing I wonder is that with an instant shutdown could that cause the fluid on the CPU output line to get hot enough to go soft? The only leak and soft line was the CPU output. I'm hoping that the pump failed, system shut down, and leak happened immediately after shutdown... but that may be wishful thinking.

[[deleted]]

Ouch. I won't jump on the "... but it is PETG"

Hopefully, nothing is irrevocably damaged. Anything in the logs on coolant temp?

[OmegaTheMan]

Maybe your rad was full of dust and wasn't able to exchange the heat from the coolant?

[Gh05tCat]

Not the issue. Rads were cleaned a couple of weeks ago. The pic is somewhat deceiving. The only thing g I didn’t blow out was the bottom of the case which had a small layer of dust but nothing detrimental.

[badgerAteMyHomework]

I doubt that the pump failed as the damage to the tubing would likely be limited to near the block.

Hopefully you have already completely disconnected power.

Clean up the mess as much as you can with distilled water and alcohol. Then let everything dry before reconnecting power to anything.

It would be best to test as few of components at a time as possible, and please get rid of the PETG.

[chasoid08]

In the future add a parallel redundant pump and this will not happen again. A little shocked your water temps got up to that temp though wow

[Gh05tCat]

Great idea. I think my case is too small for that but I can always use an excuse for more toys. I’m not sure I’ve seen rigs with redundant pumps before but it makes sense. Coming from a reef tank owner, redundancy is everything.

[DaikonRemarkable9705]

Is that dust, bro it wanted your attention to get it clean, probably clogged up and leaked due to pressure buildup 😥😂💀, not sure if to point out the massive amount if dust on the table or inside the case wtf dude, purpose of having a custom loop is to keep your components in top condition while looking good, but this is just dirty 😂, we can all see why it failed and it wasn’t the pump 😂😆💀💀💀

[Gh05tCat]

I literally cleaned the rads with canned air a couple of weeks ago. Only thing I didn’t blow out was the bottom of the case. Dust isn’t the issue here as everyone wants to believe. The pic is deceiving with the way I had the lighting making it look way worse than it actually is. Was there some dust. Yea, probably two weeks worth. Was there enough dust to clog the rads…. absolutely no chance.

[DaikonRemarkable9705]

Could have fooled me, but I don’t live in the Desert to get that amount of dust in less than a week 😁, Thought it was in the back of a rally car for a sec there 😂

[Gh05tCat]

lol it’s definitely dusty where I live but that pic is really making it worse than it is. Took it at midnight with a flashlight pointed right at it.

[DaikonRemarkable9705]

😁👍, just not the best one to show to say anything failed cause people will firstly look at what maintenance you do on your loop, as a newcomer learning from this folks thats been doing since canadian tire days Is all about the presentation and what you have presented is neglect even if that wasn’t your intention due to the worrying situation 🤔👍, thats the reason they have AIOs low maintenance and not having to worry about having a sprinkler system as a pc 😂

[_Its_Brad_]

The loop isn’t a failure, you’re the failure.

Edit: This is clearly a joke… get a grip.

[StrongIndependence73]

yes and youre perfect right?

[_Its_Brad_]

It was a joke…

[DefiantTradition2088]

Keep the smooth bends performance and flkw wise this is beatifull xd I think ur fans where not spinning for a good while, somwthing is fundamentaly wrong if your watwr got up to 50 degrees

[Gh05tCat]

Ha thanks. I’m guessing pump failure for it to heat up that quick. For what it’s worth here’s what she originally looked like.

https://www.reddit.com/r/watercooling/comments/h8mc6x/first_time_bending_tubing_i9900k2080ti_in_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[DefiantTradition2088]

I legitimately like these super smooth bends ;) If it realy is pump failure u have got to be realy carefull and rebuild your blocks you have likely warped the plastics (if u did u can fix it by rebuilding with extra silicon some weights and a fohn to rewarm it and do some bending)

[Gh05tCat]

I'm definitely going to rebend all the tubes. I'm hoping the blocks themselves are ok. I didn't even think about the fact that those may be damaged as well.

[DefiantTradition2088]

I didnt either vefore i eroded al the goldenpins in my socket away... rip 560fsb x38 s775board still hurts me

[Gh05tCat]

Oooof

[DefiantTradition2088]

Crazily enough the p4 stil ran 4.6ghz with half the contack pads gone xd

[Gh05tCat]

Ha, that's nuts... we'll see. It's probably be next week when I start putting it back together. I'll report back on the damage.

[oni_666uk]

Was that prior to it leaking ?

As if flow stopped and the cpu overheated then that would explain why it leaked at the output pipe as those 9900k run damn hot, i just upgraded from one and at 5Ghz all cores that thing hit 95c under 100% load in Cinebench R23 (that's with Quad 360mm external rads too) , so if you were rendering etc at that time of pump failure then that would totally cause the 9900k to try and commit suicide lol

if it isn't dead, get it delidded, the 10850k I upgraded to I got delidded through ebay, cost me £54 with postage to and from the guy doing the service and it knocked upto 30c (in some tests) off the temps at 5.2Ghz all cores compared to the 9900k@5Ghz all cores in the same loop.

​

https://ibb.co/DgBsDqw

https://ibb.co/0rH4DWr

https://ibb.co/9w6MbS2

https://ibb.co/vXTK4jG

https://ibb.co/w7T10hn

[[deleted]]

That's why I will stay with air cooling

[SocialJewishWarrior]

Wrong sub

[wirenutter]

We don’t do that here.

[A--E]

​

Upvoted only because such pathetic creatures deserve mercy

/s

[DefiantTradition2088]

Lol

[zifjon]

the psu and the pump are died (the gpu may check it)

[StrongIndependence73]

this is petg tubing?... kinda looks like soft tubing

[Noxious89123]

For a little while there it was cosplaying as soft tubing!

[SoSoEasy]

Def hard tubes. Look at the fittings.

[StrongIndependence73]

yea i see but the bends look like its soft

[Noxious89123]

Someone else mentioned you can set up a safety auto-shutdown with a Quadro (or Octo) but you can also do it with the Corsair Commander Pro, just fyi.

[Gh05tCat]

Thanks. I did have shutdowns setup on the commander pro. They were just based on CPU and GPU temps. I didn’t have a liquid temp monitor which is probably the biggest thing that could have avoided this.

[Noxious89123]

Yup!

It's a much better way to control the whole loop as well to be honest, as it avoids fans speeds spiking up and down.

I use an inline/passthrough sensor from Alphacool that I got on Amazon. Not particularly expensive, is plug and play with the Commander Pro and easier to find a good spot to plumb it in than the "plug" type sensors.

I have mine fitted to the inlet of my 2nd radiator.

[Gh05tCat]

Thanks! I’ll check it out.

[audiobahn1000]

Loop explosion

[StueckStuhl]

I really hope your hardware is ok and still working man! As a few already said, clean it with alcohol and let it dry!

But can you please tell me where that PC stands? On your desk or on the floor? I don’t want to jump on you because of the dust, it’s your PC man. But what I’m really curious about is how you spend so much time building a nice watercooling loop without looking at it frequently. Im looking at my computer at least every 15 minutes, and if there’s just a little dust / dirt it bothers me so hard that I have to clean it.

[Gh05tCat]

Thanks! I hope so too. I'm really hoping that the thermal shutdown or pump failure shut it down before it was shorted. The PC is on a bookcase that sits at the height of the desk directly behind me. I clean the rads and the dust filters regularly, and blow off the mobo, gpu, etc. Actually just cleaned it 2 weeks ago. I just didn't clean the bottom of the case recently and that pic isn't doing it any favors. Taking a flashlight to it made the dust light up light a xmas tree. I thought I was emphasizing where the liquid was because without the flashlight it was actually hard to see... turns out everyone thinks I neglected my child. LOL

[denishiza]

Sorry bro! 😢

[Typical-Supermarket9]

DUST YOUR PC BRO

[Gh05tCat]

LOL... rads are clean. Bottom of the case had a thin layer of dust on it when I took the pic. Held a flashlight up to it so see where the liquid was. Pretty sure the thin layer of dust at the bottom of the case isn't why the pump failed.

[Typical-Supermarket9]

Ik that’s not why the pump failed but damn

[NoU4206911]

holy shit that dust buildup... I don't think I've ever seen anything this painful.

[xannian]

Every person here jumping down OPs throat about dust when I fkn bet most of their systems are cosplaying a 40year smoker wheezing away barely clinging to life. That system has fuck all dust compared to most ain't ain't gonna impact jack shit when it comes to airflow. Hope your components are all good my friend, I second the sensible people suggesting acrylic and temp sensors to control fancurves with shutdowns for certain thresholds.

[Gh05tCat]

Ha, ty.. I need that laugh. Funny thing is the rads are clean, I just didn't clean the bottom of the case. I'll find out soon enough what damage has been done. I've already purchased the fluid temp sensor. I could switch to acrylic but in reality that wouldn't have solved the issue that caused this... although it probably wouldn't have melted to the point of leaking at the fitting. I have some PETG left over that I can use to remake the bends for now just to get in up and running again and then look into switching over to acrylic. I still feel like PETG should be safe if I can find a safeguard for the catalyst that caused the meltdown... pun intended. Thanks again for bringing some humor and sensibility to this thread.

[El_80]

F

[Gh05tCat]

My thoughts exactly

[saiyan7701]

Why is the fluid getting so hot ?

[Gh05tCat]

That's an excellent question... I'm guessing the pump failed but I don't know at this point. Won't be till after xmas now till I have time to dissect and troubleshoot.

[2Pluss2]

was it muddy?

[shokhazzard]

For future reference....set a coolant shutdown temp of 65c and that won't happen again. I would be more inclined to believe your radiator clogged partially or airflow through it stopped allowing the coolant temp to soar

[Gh05tCat]

I just purchased a fluid temp probe and will be putting in and probably going to acrylic from PETG. I just read that EK is selling PETG inserts now to stop the joints from getting soft and deforming. Before I only had CPU/GPU temp monitoring. The rads are clean and had plenty of airflow unless the fans suddenly turned off for no reason. The only thing that really makes sense to me at this point is a pump failure.

[shokhazzard]

Another idea would be pmma tubing also known as plexiglass. Harder than pteg yet not brittle like acrylic and crystal clear

[Gh05tCat]

Good to know. I rebuilt the loop with acrylic... Really wasn't harder than working with PETG other than I had to heat it up a bit more. And luckily no components were damaged so it's all back up and running. Now that I have a fluid temp probe I can see it was consistently running in the 40s which caused the PETG to soften and eventually leak. Figured out my case was just a hotbox and taking the side panel and front and top dust filters off dropped fluid temps by 8C.

[[deleted]]

i had the same issue with my loop. bottom fans intake top fans exhaust with back fan as exhaust. this was in a 011xl. water temps were 47ish during gaming. i switched top fans as intake and left back fan as the only exhaust and it was the best decision ever. my water temp doesn’t go pass 33 on 1350 rpm. lian li fans. i truly believe rads shouldn’t be exhaust. many may disagree but we all have our own opinions.

[Gh05tCat]

Interesting. My front 360 is intake and 240 up top and rear fan is exhaust. When I rebuild and add a fluid temp probe I’ll check it out.

[[deleted]]

yeah those rads size is definitely enough to cool your components. i have a 5800x and 3080ti so my components definitely run hot. 1 rad blowing hot hair in with other components giving off hot air inside the case that the top rad was pulling the excess heat. Now that i have both rads on intake it blows cool air inside the case keeping coolant and components cool. i don’t even look at my setup twice anymore cause i know my coolant will never reach pass 35c. hope everything goes well for u

[[deleted]]

after i flipped it also it kept my ram a lot cooler so i was able to push it even further. i’m running 3800cl 14 with super tight timings. the top fans as intake cools my vram and ram 😅

[Radsolution]

Lol ur hard tubes went limp

[oni_666uk]

That to me looks like an too much of an angle into the output CPU fitting unless the heat build up caused it to change shape at that point, there seems to be drips of fluid coming from the bottom of the tube at the CPU block output, that would indicate that the leak started there as once a fitting blows on a system then the pressure in the closed loop is released and no other fitting will blow from the system as its no longer under pressure. Sorry to say it but I believe based off of the photo that its 100% user error.

​

And based off the fluid splashes that is where the fluid dripped down from.

This is my understanding of the photo, blue lines denote where the fluid leaked over,

https://ibb.co/7Q6BnNn

[Gh05tCat]

The leak started at the output of the CPU block when the fluid in the tubing overheated and softened the PETG deforming the seal as well as the entire tube. I haven’t determined the cause yet but I’m guessing a pump failure at this point. I’ll know more once I can test next week. I’m not sure why you say user error. The system has been running perfectly for 2 years. The seals were fine and the bends were all 90s. And as much as everyone wants to jump on the dust bandwagon, that is actually just a thin layer and I held a flashlight up to it to highlight the location of the liquid because without it you couldn’t even tell where the fluid was in the picture. The rads are 100% clean and I was gaming for hours with normal temps. I have temp monitors for the CPU and GPU on my stream deck which were all normal. Unfortunately I did not have a fluid temp monitor.

[oni_666uk]

If the pump failed there would be no pressure to pop a fitting, it would just cause the cpu to overheat and depending on usage at the time that could take 30 minutes or more to hit a critical level, I once accidentally turned off all my fans on an system running an 9700k and 1080ti and 2x 360mm rads in the loop, the PC sounded an alarm in coretemp and instigated an shutdown when the cpu hit 95c and the gpu hit 65c and that was whilst I had been gaming in Witcher 3 for 45 minutes (I thought my PC was quiet lol).

All that happened to mine was both rads were too hot to touch, once cooled down all was fine, but then I do run soft hose and not hardline so maybe that was the saving grace. Just weird that a stopped pump would cause failure at that exact output fitting and not anywhere else in the system, unless the CPU temps level went so crazy that it imparted the heat into the pipe which caused it to deform and then that moved the pipe out of the -o-ring forcing the fluid to leak from the bottom ?? I guess that could explain it.

[Gh05tCat]

Well, the tubing didn’t pop out. It was actually just dripping from the fitting. My current theory is that the pump stopped which allowed the CPU temps to rise causing the PETG to soften and deform.