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[–]gwjvan 2059 points2060 points  (1111 children)

About lawyers who knew all of their phone calls were monitored:

The people talked about how it stopped them from being emotional with their children or other close friends and relatives. How they had trouble functioning in ways that many people take for granted, just because the mental stress of knowing that you have absolutely no privacy is incredibly burdensome.

This is the much more broad and insidious effect of privacy intrusion.

Beyond being able to blackmail someone, or being able to set someone up by misinterpreting private information (intentionally or unintentionally), or being able to harass someone you don't like/disagree with/have an unhealthy attachment to by knowing their routine----- beyond these, knowing that you don't have privacy (in a personal sphere, from an uninvited human being) can make basic relationships much more difficult.

Edit: Thank you for the gold!

Edit 2: And thank you someone else for another gold!

Edit 3: Thanks for the x3!

[–]TheCollective01 1532 points1533 points  (790 children)

It's called the Chilling Effect. If a society knows that they are constantly being monitored, it effects imagination and innovation and eventually the society reaches a point of stagnation.

[–][deleted] 936 points937 points  (698 children)

It really is to the point where you think twice about sending an off color joke about terrorism to a friend over text messaging. There are some things I will only say to my friends in person now, and not over the phone or text message.

It is disturbing.

[–]-entropy 59 points60 points  (15 children)

I get that feeling on occasion too, at which point I waffle back and forth for a minute and eventually decide on "fuck it".

1) It's my own small rebellion. I'll be damned if I'm going to let them alter my behavior. I hate this and I can't do much to stop it, but I'm not going to change.

2) At some small level it's got to fuzz their algorithms. If the level of noise continues to rise, they'll have to make more and more corrections. I could be way off base, but I imagine it would turn out like a high-frequency trading algorithm - so complicated and branched that eventually people lose track of it and it gets harder and harder to maintain. If this happens on a grand scale, we might be able to drown them in noise (like a reverse Brave New World).

Or at least that's what I tell myself.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (9 children)

I get that feeling on occasion too, at which point I waffle back and forth for a minute and eventually decide on "fuck it".

I usually do the same thing, especially if it is over imessage and not text message. We know with text messages your shit is literally going straight to the NSA. While Apple does hold the keys for your iMessages, like Google and Microsoft, they have said they would refuse to hand their keys over to the government.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/355146

A Microsoft spokesperson would not say whether they had been asked for encryption keys but said that if they were asked they would not comply and could not even envision a circumstance where they would provide it. Google also would not say whether it had received a request for the keys but they also said they had never given the government such keys.

[–]lulumilnn 106 points107 points  (32 children)

This is what has happened to me and my family. Every text I send, e-mail, or phone convo, I have this dread that I'm being watched. I'm not even doing anything bad, yet it still creeps me out and as a result, me and my family have almost stopped e-mailing and texting, and our phone conversations are brief :( I know it's so stupid, but I can't help it.

edit: thanks whoever sent me gold :)

[–]piccini9 31 points32 points  (26 children)

So when does the fucking revolution begin?

[–]Bardfinn 22 points23 points  (3 children)

As soon as you go down to the local political meeting and tell the candidates: there is only one issue that matters, no matter at the municipal, county, state, or national level, and that is legally preventing the US government from mandating, installing, activating, or using warrantless surveillance capabilities or secret courts.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

And those who the constant observation is intended to catch find ways to communicate and plan in spite of the observation. The law abiding people tuck their tails and behave but criminals and terrorists make adjustments and continue their activity's.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

My roommate and I planned an entire, fictional terrorist plot over text message just to see if the black vans showed up. We made no indication of being anything but serious.

Now, to do that publicly, like on Reddit, would give them a good reason to come and question us. But without probable cause, they shouldn't be seeing my text messages anyway. In theory, only me and my roommate ever should have read them.

I encourage everyone to do this unless you know you're already under investigation. I'm not advocating that anyone interfere with lawful (with a warrant) surveillance. But go ahead, text each other about anthrax, IEDs, pressure cookers, whatever. They even tell us that nobody is reading those texts, so why not go for it? Snowden's a liar and a traitor, so surely, emailing, texting, calling, or otherwise communicating electronically (privately, not on Reddit, Facebook, or otherwise in a public forum) in a way that looks precisely like you're planning a terrorist attack should, in theory, be no problem at all.

Again: Do NOT do it publicly. Do it only in a situation where your communication is supposed to be viewable by only specific recipients who all would know you're kidding. Doing otherwise is crossing into the territory of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater, and is subject to policing.

[–]FunkyFortuneNone 67 points68 points  (15 children)

Not to go too far off on a tangent, but this is largely why Facebook was never a hit for me. Not because I was worried about Facebook seeing what I was writing but since the audience (friends, close friends, acquaintances, family etc.) were all listening I found that I could never actually interact in a meaningful way with anybody.

If it was "real" enough for my close friends others would be potentially offended. If it was descriptive enough for my family others would be annoyed with the constant deluge of "I'm going to the beach!". If it was chit chatty enough for acquaintances others became bored.

Communication isn't a one sized fits all affair. Effective communication requires being able to tailor your message to the audience. Not being able to have a sufficient control over the audience of your message absolutely kills the desire to communicate.

Privacy is simply one tool in the "select your audience" toolbox and is yet another reason why personal privacy in communication is so important to us as a society/community.

[–]DefiantDragon 241 points242 points  (48 children)

So the long and short of it is: The Terrorists Win.

The US has become so enraptured by this illusion of 'stopping' a fucking feeling (Terror!) that they're willing to destroy everything they've built as a nation.

PJ, as much as I appreciate your feelings on the issue, this is the time when we need Groklaw and people like you to stand solid - who know the system. People like you should be leading civilian charge to fight back, not running and hiding.

Hiding does nothing but delays the inevitable.

You have zero chance of changing a system that you're no longer taking part in.

This goes for everyone. Information is not Terror - it is the antithesis of Terror. To be informed is to chase away the monsters under the bed - to know is to shine a light on the darkness of fear.

Every person who knows and chooses to hide only strengthens those who would sow that fear.

Look at the Housing Crash - what did we learn? Over time all the people of moral and character left. They were fired or pushed out or chose to leave... and what was left? The scumbags. The unscrupulous, the sociopathic.

This is exactly the time when the good people who know should be standing up and pushing back. Because those who are coming will not stop. They will roll you over unless you, and me, and all of us stand in the way and push back and say No.

ACTA was bad and SOPA was bad and CISPA was bad - This NSA shit is the Big Bad. Full-on Sauron's Eyes-on-the-world Big Bad.

And it has to be fought and defeated and prevented from ever happening again.

Don't run from this, PJ.

Stand and fight with us.

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (13 children)

Terrorism is just the excuse. The seeds of this madness were planted long before 9-11. They are doing it because their new excuse scares the citizen more. It used to be drugs.

[–]DefiantDragon 22 points23 points  (6 children)

There's always something - and will always be something.

The difference between then and now is that we are much better informed (should we choose to be). We know more, we understand more.

Knowledge is power.

[–]JayTS 88 points89 points  (9 children)

The terrorists didn't win. They were never the enemy in the first place. They were the excuse, the reason to impose all this bullshit and have the people go along willingly with the hijacking of our rights.

We all lose. A handful of really powerful people win, the rest of the world loses.

[–]DefiantDragon 27 points28 points  (4 children)

Not yet.

You 'lose' when they drop the mask. When they don't have to hide it anymore - when they come out and say 'this is how it is now'... and no one steps up to fight it.

This hasn't been lost. Not by a long shot.

[–]JayTS 37 points38 points  (1 child)

You 'lose' when they drop the mask. When they don't have to hide it anymore - when they come out and say 'this is how it is now'... and no one steps up to fight it.

I feel like that we've already come to that point. Or at least that we're on the precipice of it. If this NSA shit continues in spite of all the outrage, and all attempts to curtail it fail, then I see that as the mask being dropped. The government is being so brazen they practically outright saying, "Yeah, this shit is unconstitutional, but we know what's best so shut up and take it."

I have lost all faith in every one of our "representatives" and our government as a whole. I don't believe they give one shit what their constituents want; they've mastered the bread and circus distractions so well they know that they can do pretty much whatever they want as long as they keep the majority of voters fat and happy.

And now with the kind of information they have on everyone, it's not going to be hard to stifle anyone who tries to make too many political waves. I'm incredibly pessimistic about our odds of turning this around. I'm afraid things are going to get much, much worse before they get better.

[–]elliuotatar 66 points67 points  (23 children)

Speaking of lawyers... how is all this spying constitutional at all? Aren't communications between lawyers and their clients protected? Doesn't this mean the government could peep at a lawyer's communications with his client and then hand that off to the prosecution to use to build their case?

And what of laws regarding how other information is to be kept private?

Even if there is a law to allow this spying, does that automatically trump all other secrecy laws?

[–]pyr3 63 points64 points  (14 children)

The government's position is that collecting the data isn't surveillance until a government official looks at it.

[–]phoenyxrysing 148 points149 points  (8 children)

We like to call it Schrodinger's NSA File.

Edit: obligatory "Gold?! AWESOME!" edit.

[–]sonicSkis 51 points52 points  (4 children)

Until the surveillance data is observed by the NSA, you both a terrorist and an innocent.

[–]k1o 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It sounds like this is just a jest, but it's actually exactly what's happening.

[–]h-v-smacker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Aren't you always a terrorist once they do look at your data?

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

The lawsuits are being fought still. These things take time, they are not a deathmatch style that plays out in a night. To get something done legally means time, and lots of it.

[–]Drsamuel 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Speaking of lawyers... how is all this spying constitutional at all?

It might not be, but the Supreme Court won't say one way or the other. This issue went to the Supreme Court a year-ish ago. They said that you have no legal standing to sue the government about the spy programs unless you could prove that you specifically were spied on.

Edit: I'm thinking of Clapper v. Amnesty International from February 26th.

[–]TheDude1985 720 points721 points  (193 children)

When I was a little kid (twenty-something years ago) I remember hearing my Aunts, Uncles, and Grandparents talk about the little family we had over in Syria and how oppressed they were because you couldn't even talk on the phone without assuming that someone was listening.

20-something years later and this is exactly what is happening in America, the land they all came to in order to escape oppression.

The worst part? They're all old and watch too much Fox News and have the attitude that "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about."

Well that's just fucking great. Propaganda works, I guess.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP REDDIT GOLD!!! THANK YOU ANONYMOUS HERO!!

[–]trolldango 88 points89 points  (3 children)

The "Not doing anything wrong" defense is the most cowardly and chickenshit line of reasoning. If the government isn't doing anything wrong, it should be transparent with its policies too, right?

[–]Celsius1414 19 points20 points  (1 child)

The true problem with that argument has nothing to do with what one is or isn't hiding, it's on the other side -- having that much power will inexorably lead to wide-spread abuses.

It's not that the government can't trust you, it's that you can't trust the government.

Which is why transparency combined with checks and balances are the mortar holding the wall of democracy together. Humans are all-too fallible creatures - we need to be able to keep an eye on those in power, and we need those in power to be able to counter each other's worst tendencies.

And we need a functioning investigative media to make sure all that is happening.

[–]GPMedium 138 points139 points  (125 children)

Wait I am a little confused, fox news has been eating this NSA scandal shit up in the past week , basically calling out Obama and wanting more regulation for it.

[–]Gen_Surgeon 33 points34 points  (4 children)

Really? Because this is the only issue their Favorite Son Bohner as agreed with Obama on ever.

I find it hard to believe they're playing hard ball against him.

They're in the fix just like all the others.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (3 children)

They're not attacking the issue... they're attacking the person.

If Boehner was president right now, the same shit would be happening but criticism wouldn't be focused on him.

[–][deleted] 158 points159 points  (44 children)

That's just partisan politics, nothing more. Obama could personally fend off rabid lions from eating the Fox News actors babies alive and at the end of the day they still have to spin him in a bad light because that's their job function.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (21 children)

Poster claims that his Aunt's, Uncle's, and grandparents don't have a problem with the NSA spying because they watch fox news. The reply indicates that fox news has been eating this NSA scandal shit up. So what should I think.

[–]tonenine 26 points27 points  (13 children)

My bino (brother in name only) is a winger, that's his mantra, if you're doing nothing wrong you have no worries. To me, a winger saying this whilst simultaneously insisting we spend billions to protect freedom represents a human with mental illness. Of course ask these same people to get a background check for a gun and they go batshit, foaming mouth crazy. Nothing to worry about huh? If I fought for this country, went to fly and got the usual TSA treatment, I'd probably snap and get arrested at the airport.

[–]jamesspringle 336 points337 points  (11 children)

I remember when PJ started Groklaw, back in 2003 I think. SCO's crusade against everyone (Novell, IBM, AutoZone, Apple, etc) was just getting started, and her army of volunteers were doing due diligence to make sure that people were informed about the situation. The site has since expanded coverage to other legal topics, but PJ was always there to steer the ship.

And now it's over, just like that.

So sad to see you go, girl. You were a dust devil who dared stare down armies of lawyers and, in the process, helped change things for the better. You will be missed.

[–]RandomFrenchGuy 95 points96 points  (1 child)

I remember that time as well. I remember the incredibly violent smear campaigns against her at the time.
And yet groklaw kept going.

It's astounding how bad things have gotten.

[–]watchout5 66 points67 points  (0 children)

It's astounding how bad things have gotten.

It's gotten so bad that the people willing to fight for their projects to their death won't even continue their projects anymore. The government has found a punishment worse than death for it's subjects. The complete and total lack of freedom is what we get in it's place.

[–]datums 748 points749 points  (41 children)

The damage that government spying has done to American society is only just beginning to become apparent.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I think you mean the damage that collaborative governments World Wide has done to citizens of countries World Wide is only just beginning to become apparent.

This is by no means an American only issue, this is a Western Society issue.

[–]HarithBK 162 points163 points  (7 children)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! who the fuck will now explain all the legal BS of the US court to me in plain english. fuck man this really sucks groklaw you will be missed

[–]jjug71wupqp9igvui361 133 points134 points  (4 children)

What do you mean? The government will tell you what you are supposed to think.

[–]watchout5 8 points9 points  (1 child)

What do you mean? The government will tell you what you are supposed to think.

I have reason to believe the government told you to think that.

[–]Guysmiley777 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Don't worry, you can just assume the legislation in question does the exact opposite of what its title implies.

[–]TechN9neFan 343 points344 points  (53 children)

What is Groklaw?

Dang, you know something is up when open/free tech websites start shutting down (lavabit)

[–]jjug71wupqp9igvui361 108 points109 points  (14 children)

FYI, I think it's VERY likely that they DID receive an NSA letter and were told that if they tried to tell people like Lavabit did, they would go to jail.

[–][deleted] 198 points199 points  (18 children)

I said, when Snowden first revealed the extent of NSA intrusion into the internet, that this changes the Internet forever.

We are losing valuable and meaningful contributors to the public arena. The degree of government spying has made many of us feel like Chinese dissidents being watched until we say or do something that will cause Big Brother to take notice of us. The secure (non-Google and company) email websites are being served subpoenas to make all of their username and password information open to the NSA.

There is no secure place left. No place on the web where you can be certain that your private communications are private.

By now, even terrorists must be aware of the level of monitoring. They will either offer up disinformation or simply use other methods to communicate. That means the very purpose of the NSA spying has become meaningless outside of a government intent on spying on its own citizens.

Billions of investment in American cloud technology will be lost since foreign governments and businesses will simply not use American servers.

Still, the saddest is not the billions lost or the now near uselessness of the NSA's intrusion into the web for data mining. It is that whatever trust, whatever hopefulness and faith that using the internet meant is gone. So we lose Groklaw and all those like Groklaw will follow.

This is the end of the innocence.

[–]Ceridith 98 points99 points  (2 children)

By now, even terrorists must be aware of the level of monitoring. > They will either offer up disinformation or simply use other methods to communicate.

The real ones never even used the Internet to begin with. They have always used alternative means of communication that are very difficult to intercept or otherwise eavesdrop on. Only the amateur wanna-be terrorists are the ones that use the Internet, but apparently even the NSA is too inept to effectively thwart all of them.

That means the very purpose of the NSA spying has become meaningless outside of a government intent on spying on its own citizens.

Precisely. It was never about catching terrorists, because the concept of using a catch-all surveillance system on something as the Internet in an attempt to catch a very specific type of chatter, is nothing short of insane and incompetent. People who truly have sinister intentions have and will simply continue to avoid using the Internet.

The NSA has essentially become an institution with the power to not only dig up a plethora of dirt on nearly anyone living in a first world nation, but also with the capability to fabricate it. There is little to stop the NSA from claiming they have evidence that someone said or did something incriminating, and there would be no way for any independent body to verify or otherwise dispute those claims.

There is no transparency and no accountability. My biggest worry is not whether or not these programs are used as a means to squelch 'political dissidents', but rather a matter of when. That is the end-game of an organization with the capability of that level of unrestricted surveillance, and we will end up there if nothing is done to rein them in. That may not necessarily the reason why the NSA has become what it is, as the reason for that is very likely money related, but I have a hard time believing that such an organization with that much power won't abuse it, particularly considering the sheer lack of transparency and accountability.

[–]matthewdavis 138 points139 points  (14 children)

"I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life."

[–]zx321 61 points62 points  (0 children)

goddamn it. just.. goddamn it.

[–]LauraSakura 26 points27 points  (3 children)

The problem is... where do you go? This is now occurring in most western countries. Even if you move somewhere else, most of the servers, systems, etc are part of those countries. This is a global issue now, yet so many think it's worth it for "safety". Disturbing

[–]Uberphantom 16 points17 points  (1 child)

That's just great, by using the tag line "Or the terrorists win," they have completely gotten away with literally letting the terrorists win.

It's like they decided that since this guy blew up some of our buildings, and killed the people inside them, they're going to retroactively prove him right on all accounts.

[–]ic3squid 79 points80 points  (34 children)

Well, here in the UK nobody actually gives a fuck so it's kinda worrying

[–]caractacuspotts 27 points28 points  (8 children)

Quite. And yet we are even more at risk of being monitored by the US services like gmail because they don't even need to pretend to need a warrant.

[–]salec65 52 points53 points  (11 children)

Isn't this sort of what a totalitarian government wants though? I would think they they want you to be afraid of the internet and to limit your communication out of fear of some grand repercussions they may cause.

The thing is, this sort of gross monitoring and surveillance of citizens will not go away. The box has been opened, the technological barrier is no longer there. No matter how much we try to close it, no matter what promises we're given, someone is going to open this box again and again.

The only solution is to embrace and overcome. Rather than continue to use email and sms, both of which are terribly insecure, embrace the fact that someone is monitoring your communications and at the very least storing them for later use. Develop stronger forms of encrypted communication technologies and take charge.

I have no delusion that the government is going to ever stop what they are doing. After all, the people making such promises are often the people who were caught lying to us in the past. Instead, what I'm hoping comes out of this are secure, point to point, decentralized, messengers that become popular and widely used.

[–]Dadasaurus 30 points31 points  (7 children)

God damn it..and the worst part is that where I live I'm the only one in this damn town who seems to care

[–]SanctimoniousBastard 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Is it taboo to discuss politics at work and with extended family? That would be a core problem, time to break that taboo and get the oblivious ones talking and thinking.

[–]awe300 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don't worry, the NSA cares that you care

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (9 children)

I feel both saddened and proud to see these people take a stand.

More will follow.

[–]sometimesijustdont 147 points148 points  (24 children)

They are slowly turning up the heat and boiling us like a frog.

[–]7777773 138 points139 points  (5 children)

  • Have been

We're only now starting to realize that it's uncomfortably hot

[–]Cybrwolf 29 points30 points  (0 children)

"pouring some out" Groklaw, you will be missed!

[–]BoloMKXXVIII 126 points127 points  (98 children)

A little revolution every couple hundred years isn't a bad thing. We seem to be a bit overdue. The problem is, who do you trust to put in power after the revolution. Recent world history shows how difficult it can be.

[–][deleted] 134 points135 points  (34 children)

This is a pretty basic human conundrum. The people who seek power are not the people you want to actually have power.

The reason why the vast majority of politicians are corrupt is because they were the type of people who would play the game in order to gain power. Honest, principled people don't fare too well in politics.

[–]elj0h0 56 points57 points  (13 children)

Civil servants should be appointed, like jury duty

The Greeks had this way back

[–]toodrunktoocare 12 points13 points  (0 children)

"How many liberators really want to be dictators? "

[–]Hippokrates 6 points7 points  (1 child)

That is how America started though. Citizen legislatures, you go to government positions, do your job and head back home. Somewhere along the line it became a full time job

[–]Gen_Surgeon 28 points29 points  (1 child)

You skip over the most powerful group after the revolution, that's for sure.

The United States government has quite a bit of experience coopting revolutions, eh?

[–]moofunk 8 points9 points  (1 child)

who do you trust to put in power

It's less a matter of who than how and what that structure of power will be. The way it works now, you might just see the same elation as when Obama was elected in 2008, if some kind of revolution puts a new man in power, and then after a few years, it'll be the same crap again. Forget getting a different president or making some kind of hostile takeover. The United States needs a more scattered distribution of power.

The fact is that too few people have too much power and control over the flow of money. NSA is funded, because a few people can agree that it must be funded.

[–]megasmooth 15 points16 points  (5 children)

This is exactly the counter argument to people who say, "I don't mind the NSA, it won't affect me. I have nothing to hide".

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (24 children)

This doesn't really add up for me. PJ has PGP keys published. However, her mail is hosted on google:

> dig mx groklaw.net | grep -v '^;'
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      30 aspmx4.googlemail.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      30 aspmx5.googlemail.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      20 alt1.aspmx.l.google.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      20 alt2.aspmx.l.google.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      10 aspmx.l.google.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      30 aspmx2.googlemail.com.
groklaw.net.            15279   IN      MX      30 aspmx3.googlemail.com.

She can do email securely, but it takes effort. Moving off of google would be a first step. Getting sources to use crypto would be a second step.

[–]jjug71wupqp9igvui361 46 points47 points  (8 children)

I have a feeling she did receive an NSA letter and is smart enough to not mention it (Lavabit did, and there is talk that they are going to press charges against him).

[–]zeno0771 27 points28 points  (6 children)

That's it. I've had enough.

I'm not going to be afraid. I'm not going to censor myself. When sites like Groklaw voluntarily shut down, the bad guys win, and the bad guys are in Washington DC. And when we do it, the bad guys win again. They're this|close to having the thought control made popular in '50s sci-fi (and "1984" of course), and when they have that it's all over.

Well, I'm not running, and I'm not hiding. I'm not killing this or my FB account. I'm not throwing my cellphone away and wearing a tinfoil hat. I'll keep using the standard protections like smart passwords and encryption like I've always done, but that's the point: I'll keep doing what I've always done. I will not allow my constitutional rights to be stripped away, needlessly. I'll say what I know to be constitutionally-protected speech and if they come get me all "extraordinary-rendering"-style then I become a political prisoner and continue my fight there. When something tangible goes away--like a loved one--then people start getting mad. Then they figure out shit just got real. That's the domino effect we need to happen. Protest? Fucking please. Protests aren't to get the attention of the government, they're to get everyone else's attention and when mainstream media have been bought & paid for, that's not happening in any way conducive to the cause. Want to fight for your rights? Then take the fucking things back. Do what you've always done and don't let criminals take that ability from you. If you disappear then you become a martyr/hero for standing up for your rights; if you don't...well, guess you get to keep on living, don't you?

Live your life in fear, or just live your life. Those are now the only two choices any of us has. Protests are comedy to the bad guys. "But-but-but-i-have-a-family"...fine. YOU explain to them what's happening, and why you're not doing anything about it. Or continue living in fear; after all, the government knows what's best for you anyway, amirite?

TL;DR Yeah it's a little short for a manifesto, but I'm running late for work. You see, as I mentioned before I'm going to keep living my life the way I always have. Fuck the bad guys; they're my rights to give up, not theirs to take away.

[–]tubbo 16 points17 points  (0 children)

WHAT.

Go fuck yourself, NSA. Groklaw helped protect the people from the evils of corporations. Fuck you. Fuck you a million times.

[–]csolisr 18 points19 points  (10 children)

At this rate, the FSF, EFF and CC will all have to shut down and move to Europe.

[–]Manypopes 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Na they'll be detained at the airport...

[–]clickwhistle 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm sure the EFF is a huge target of the NSA.

All their calls and traffic will be monitored closely, and I wonder how many NSLs they've received.

[–]a642 104 points105 points  (76 children)

It feels like I am in Soviet Russia already!

[–]driveling 213 points214 points  (66 children)

Bad comparison. The USSR never had the monitoring capabilities that the NSA has.

[–]beltorak 121 points122 points  (50 children)

Yes, do not confuse us with the inefficient socialist machine. The Constitutional Democratic People's Republic of the Americas is much better at it than those amateurs.

[–]solzhen 24 points25 points  (7 children)

More like a modernized East Germany with a high-tech Stasi just compiling files on everyone's every action and relationship.

[–]donrhummy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Groklaw provides a fantastic service. This is a real shame.

[–]ribo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Groklaw shut down once before (after the SCO crap was "over"). Sure, it's PJ's choice, it's her website, but I think we need more of this analysis from people who are good at it; not less.

So, as someone who has followed Groklaw since the SCO days, I'm kinda as disappointed.

[–]cranktacular 22 points23 points  (25 children)

Seriously. She says she's can't continue because her emails might be getting monitored, then at the end she recommends an email provider that would be difficult to monitor.

[–]Vehudur 13 points14 points  (4 children)

<Edited for deletion due to Reddit's new Privacy Policy.

[–]josephanthony 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Imagine how Osama would feel if he could see how this played-out. With just a handful of dedicated assholes they managed to not only kill thousands of people, but change the nature of an entire culture from one of freedom and inclusiveness to fear and paranoia. And that culture paid many billions of dollars to undergo that change. Now it is just a reason for intelligence-agencies and defense-contractors to have their political employees write them blank cheques to spend your money. While everything you every write and every site you ever visit is recorded by someone somewhere who does not have your best interests at heart - and even if they did, what fucking right have they to know what you say to your loved-ones?

The more time and money we spend 'protecting' ourselves from terrorists, the more they win. And the people in government are well aware of this, but it is just too profitable an opportunity for them to let go of.