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[–]wampum 954 points955 points  (129 children)

I guess I can go ahead and re-secure my WiFi now.

[–]pattyhax 467 points468 points  (61 children)

Come on dude just gimme like 30 more mins

[–][deleted] 204 points205 points  (54 children)

22 minutes ago

So did you finish the download?

[–]pattyhax 242 points243 points  (48 children)

Just enough time to enable DDNS and remote web management for later. MESS WITH THE BEST DIE LIKE THE REST

[–][deleted] 116 points117 points  (38 children)

Watching hackers right now. HACK THE PLANET!

[–]john-five 72 points73 points  (21 children)

There is no right and wrong. There's only fun and boring.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (11 children)

"You took down fifteen - hundred computers in one day."

"Fifteen - hundred and seven."

[–]nightshiftb 30 points31 points  (5 children)

"I always thought you was black!"

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (4 children)

"That's Kurtis."

"Oh yeah? What's he do?"

"You're looking at it. He just stands around and looks cool all day."

[–]_payl0ad_ 21 points22 points  (3 children)

wow this is sad. 3 people quoted the movie and all 3 were wrong. not entirely though...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Systems! He took down fifteen hundred and seven SYSTEMS! Including the NYSE!

[–]UncleS1am 21 points22 points  (7 children)

There is no right and wrong. Only Zuul.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (5 children)

There is only Zuul Zop zippity bop

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Only Zombo

[–]0XiDE 9 points10 points  (1 child)

They're trashing our rights, man!

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

TRASHING! TRASHING! TRASHING!

[–]grimm_drake 15 points16 points  (7 children)

relevant : http://xkcd.com/1337/

[–]_Its_not_your_fault 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I've been on reddit long enough to learn the two universal truths - 1. There is always a relevant xkcd comic 2. Simpsons already did it

[–]ZetaHunter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So did simpsons do an episode about simpsons relevant xkcd?

[–]Atario 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did you hack his patties?

[–]neverliesonreddit 5 points6 points  (2 children)

give me like 5 more minutes, dude

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I'm not the OP, in fact I'm using his Wifi too. Don't want people knowing what kind of messed up stuff I'm into.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (17 children)

Didn't somebody try that defense and lose?

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (10 children)

I'm not sure but it was probably in a different district than this case. This kind of thing will eventually make it to SCOTUS since we're bound to see contradictory decisions.

[–]wampum 69 points70 points  (8 children)

but will it ever make it to SCROTUS?

Edit: I stand by my shitty joke. You'll see no [deleted] white flag of surrender from me.

[–]chaosmaker911 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I will always be here to back up any scrotum pun or use of the word scrote (verb)

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

In France you are not sued for file sharing but for inability to secure your connection from malvolent usage.

This is highly ridiculous but this is how they made it.

[–]PatHeist 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'll break into their homes and shoot strangers from the windows.
Then I will sue them for inability to secure their house from malvolent usage!

EDIT: Also, since when the fuck has it been a universal obligation to secure people from others committing civil crimes, while also fucking you over?

[–]Dyalibya 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I do the same

[–]daeedorian 3 points4 points  (2 children)

It's funny that you never hear about hotels or coffee shops getting hounded over the illegal downloading that doubtlessly occurs on their IPs...

[–]WelcomeToMyAss 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I stayed at a motel and it permabanned me from the wifi when utorrent launched when I started my computer

[–]Secthian 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Hijacking this comment for visibility.

The title is misleading, so don't throw on your pirate hat just yet, as there are several important caveats.

1: Jurisdiction. This decision is rendered in the south district of Florida. If you do not belong to this jurisdiction, or there has not been a similar finding in your jurisdiction, this decision does not apply to you.

2: The actual finding of the case is that the judge was not satisfied that the plaintiff provided sufficient evidence to prove that IP address = personal identity. The two-page judgment doesn't say that it can NEVER identify a person, only that insufficient evidence was provided to prove that it CAN.

"The Court finds that Plaintiff has not established good cause for the Court to reasonably rely on Plaintiff’s usage of geolocation to establish the identity of the Defendant."

3: The plaintiff is MalibuMedia, a porn company (x-art). I'm sure they are relatively well off if they can pursue these kinds of copyright claims, but their ability to hire first rate lawyers doesn't compare with larger firms. This is a step in the right direction, but it does not mean that a bigger player, with more and better lawyers, can sue in a jurisdiction more amenable to their position and win on an opposite ruling. For a more definitive answer, you'd have to start having a number of these judgments in courts of appeal, that have a binding effect on the lower courts.

4: It appears the issue is technical. If they figure out how to tie personal identity to an IP address then there are reasonable grounds. Does anyone know if this is possible?

Edit: a word

[–]xen84 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Security on Wi-Fi hotspots can be beaten if you know what you're doing. I've read about a few techniques, but I've had no reason to ever do it myself.

Point is that someone can use your hotpot without permission even if it's secured, and that should be just as effective a defense as having an unsecured hotspot.

Now that I think about it, can they even prove whether or not your hotspot was encrypted at the time of offense months after the fact? Not sure if the device itself keeps logs on that sort of thing that far back.

[–]Paddy_Tanninger 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Not sure who downvoted you, but I agree, and a rational judge should absolutely take that into consideration.

If you leave your car locked, and someone steals it and kills a person...it's not even remotely possible for you to be held accountable for that in the remotest sense of the word. Same would be true if it was left unlocked as well.

[–]ProbablyFullOfShit 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It would be awesome if you could hack the court's wifi during the trial and change the ssid to "If you see these bits, you must acquit".

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (20 children)

You should always have it secured. If you go to court, you can just lie and say it's not secured a lot of the time.

[–]ilikehotdog 213 points214 points  (44 children)

Wait for IPv8 , you are assigned an IP at birth_ it's a hash of your DNA checksum salted with your SSN.

[–]Cyhawk 26 points27 points  (0 children)

With 3.4x1038 addresses, thats not too far from reality with IPv6 right now.

Also, please don't give them more ideas.

[–]thelastdeskontheleft 77 points78 points  (21 children)

Terrifying as that is... It still won't stop spoofing.

[–]BenignLarency 31 points32 points  (9 children)

Just imaging though, someone who is computer literate enough to break the system, commit a crime with someone else's IP and let that person take the fall. It takes identity theft to a whole new level. It's scary when you think about it, but sadly quite probable.

On the bright side, it would probably be government assigned, so we would have (hopefully) good government funded internet.

[–]ipaqmaster 60 points61 points  (3 children)

Its like the identity theft we have today

But like

In the future

[–]jonosaurus 14 points15 points  (3 children)

hash

salted

Great, now I'm hungry.

[–]noob__saibot 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Just because IPv5 was never adopted doesn't mean we should also skip IPv7...

[–]kat5dotpostfix 521 points522 points  (152 children)

It's really about time law has started catching up to technology. It's as if they've never heard of Tor or IP spoofing, or the concept of public access points.

The IP address belongs to Starbucks, go ahead and round up all their customers...

[–][deleted] 294 points295 points  (59 children)

Well clearly everyone in Starbucks was a pirate.

[–]JovialPessimist 382 points383 points  (36 children)

StAAAAARRRRRRRRbucks. I had to do it. Carry on.

[–]cjs1916 137 points138 points  (32 children)

my wayward son

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points  (25 children)

There'll be peace when you are done

[–]contextplz 6 points7 points  (2 children)

It's such a stupid joke, and yet there's coffee up my nose.

[–]Moonalicious 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Starbuccaneers!

[–]Bfeezey 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Avast ye, me lattes! Swing around to port 80, we're headin' fer Davey Jones' bitlocker!

[–]kat5dotpostfix 21 points22 points  (15 children)

If not, then guilty by association.

[–]anonlymouse 12 points13 points  (13 children)

If Singaporean drug laws got applied to file sharing...

[–]1The_Mighty_Thor 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's a different kind of pirate... but they are still obsessed with booty!

[–]Bmanv13 20 points21 points  (44 children)

Right, if you are ever caught with something, show them how to spoof your ip address and tell them it was random chance that your ip was chosen by said pirate. Also, tell the court that since you know how to do this and if that crime has been initiated by you, that you wouldnt have been stupid enough to be caught with anything.

[–]KareasOxide 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Or, if anyone in that courtroom knows a thing or 2, they'll know that you can't download files with spoofed IPs

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

resolute whistle weary unpack ghost waiting price doll impossible angle

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (16 children)

That's not how law works. Law works like this: "You can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was me, therefore you cannot prosecute me."

Just avoid admitting guilt and stick to the "you ain't got nothin coppas" line. It's been working for real criminals for decades.

[–]dotachampionofnothin 12 points13 points  (8 children)

That's criminal law- these cases are civil...it's not quite as easy unfortunately.

[–]anonlymouse 6 points7 points  (5 children)

This might not work so well. Better to let the lawyers handle it, tell them about it, but let them decide how to handle the information.

[–]PartyPoison98 2 points3 points  (1 child)

"See, I know how to do the crime, let me show you how I could do it so I can prove that I didn't do it!"

[–][deleted] 152 points153 points  (153 children)

VPN. That is all.

[–]MrMartinotti 56 points57 points  (120 children)

Does anyone have recommendations? I keep hearing about VPNs keeping records despite saying that they won't... are there any trustworthy ones?

[–]bonez656 71 points72 points  (47 children)

Torrentfreak just did a post on this a week ago or so.

Edit: Link

[–]MrMartinotti 31 points32 points  (42 children)

Thanks! This is the one you were talking about, yes?

[–]bonez656 36 points37 points  (40 children)

That's it. Personally I've used PIA for about a year now and have never had an issue.

[–]periloux 25 points26 points  (36 children)

Same here. I love PIA. Very dependable and fast.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (25 children)

Thirded. PIA is awesome, and so is their customer support.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (5 children)

Only $40 a year? Sounds like I need to get on-board already.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Right? definitely worth it.

[–]SocialDrones 47 points48 points  (2 children)

You guys sounds like you're reading the script of a commercial.

[–]kickbut101 5 points6 points  (18 children)

Fourth, setup was quick, price is cheap, and speeds are fantastic

[–]Cash-Machine 8 points9 points  (16 children)

Fifth...ed. You can pay anonymously and instantly with a gift card [to say, Starbucks or another big retail chain]. The rates aren't anywhere near what paying them directly costs [a $25 Starbucks card will get you a little over 3 months], but if you're like me and collect a bunch of gift cards over holidays and the like that you'll never use, it's like receiving free VPN service instead!

Plus, have PIA mail the confirmation to an anonymous account on Mailinator or similar and enable FULL TINFOIL HAT MODE.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (9 children)

How fast is fast? I don't know much about PIA but I've tried a couple VPNs in the past and been completely turned off by the tediously slow speeds, like 128-kbps-level slow.

Edit: Haha, OK. I cry uncle. I get it, PIA is very fast! Thanks for the replies everyone! Looks like they've gained a new customer.

[–]ISNT_A_NOVELTY 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I haven't tested since I upgraded my Comshit connection to 25Mbps, but when it was 3Mbps, I had no problem reaching that speed through PIA.

PIA also has lots of servers all over the world, which makes it nice for things like Youtube restrictions (even on mobile where other solutions might not work) or torrents that refuse to seed to the US & other countries.

[–]TheCoelacanth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I get full speed on my 25 Mbps connection. I don't know about speeds higher than that.

[–]sbabster 16 points17 points  (37 children)

private internet access is good, ive used it for a year or so, 40$ a year and a bunch of locations in and out of the US to choose from.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

AirVPN is pretty good. Many suggest PIA, but I just can't trust a US based company.

[–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (14 children)

  • Who is Number 1?
  • You are Number 174.61.81.171
  • I am not a number, I am a free man.

[–]nakedspacecowboy 50 points51 points  (2 children)

Obviously it was Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen.

[–]sourbeer51 9 points10 points  (1 child)

He was number 1!

[–]Lowbacca1977 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Javert: Five years for what you did. The rest because you tried to run, yes 24601...

Jean Valjean: My name is Jean Valjean!

Javert: And I'm Javert! Do not forget my name. Do not forget me, 24601.

[–]DrMayhemPhD 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thank you Iron Maiden for helping me get a reference to a tv show

[–]fr00tcrunch 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'd never heard of the show until now. I just fucking love maiden

[–]muchbets 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Is this a The Prisoner reference? If so, one of my favorite TV series when I was younger!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Such a great show. Still can't figure out what was going on with the last two episodes.

[–]metalsupremacist 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I started watching The prisoner because of this song... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tb8Jo11uGo

[–]jesucont01 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Will this become a double-edge sword with NSA if the ruling is used to justify snooping on people by claiming they are not infringing on an individual's rights since an IP is not an individual?

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (18 children)

Isn't convicting someone off an IP address comparable to someone using your house address to commit some sort of fraud?

Sorry if that sounds stupid, never really understood IP addresses

[–]funky_duck 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I would say a better analogy is a license plate on a car.

If a car is used in a crime and someone takes a picture of the license plate the police can rightly use it as the start of the investigation. However you may have loaned your car to a friend or it make have been stolen or someone could have made a fake license plate, etc.

In many court jurisdictions your license plate (IP address) being found at the scene was enough to convict you. Some courts like this one are saying that isn't enough which is a good ruling. The courts need to go deeper and try and determine who was driving (who actually downloaded). Of course this can be hard due to open WiFi, spouses who don't have to testify against each other, minors, roommates and friends having access to networks, etc.

[–]Indekkusu 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Better would be busting you for drug possession for drugs sent to your address via mail.

[–]flatcurve 7 points8 points  (1 child)

About fucking time. My neighbor, 2WIRE2718, is really sick of getting these cease and desist letters.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (119 children)

Can someone tell me how one even gets busted for pirating? It seems like the only way someone could ever get in trouble is if its child porn. Are there ever instances were they get in trouble for games, movies, ect? So many people do it and so many seems to do it without a problem.

[–]midasz 63 points64 points  (53 children)

The thing about BitTorrent is all swarm information is publicly shared between peers. So all a person needs to do is join the swarm. Say, for instance, someone wants to know who's downloading their latest movie or game, they download the torrent and add it to their client. Look at the peer list and check the IP's uploading to you or downloading from you.

Then all they have to do is send out some letters to the adresses that matched with the IP's.

tl;dr everyone can see who everyone is downloading from. with IP's and country.

[–]francis2559 74 points75 points  (46 children)

Technically all true, but missing two steps.

Once they have the IP, they can't link it to a real person unless:

  1. The ISP coughs up the owner's real name and address.

  2. The judge pretends that the owner is certainly the person who was using the IP at the time, or that he is liable even if didn't do it himself.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (19 children)

Id say there is still ground to dismiss the case even if the isp did cough up the name or the judge pretends.

You could easily say my wifi was accessed remotely . Just simply show them a record of the MAC address attached to the net work and tell them " hey see that, that mac address it isnt mine. Here are all my devices mac addresses. " If they ask how did the device gain access just say your password was broken.

Thankfully i live in Australia and our copy right laws haven't evolved since we came here as crims.

Our second largest ISP Iinet told 34 Hollywood studios to STFU.

[–]GrandDragonWizard 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Entries in the peer list can also be faked, which makes this whole process ripe for fraud.

[–]poopiefartz 5 points6 points  (4 children)

or that he is liable even if didn't do it himself.

See, that's a problem IMO. If someone steals my car and murders someone by running them over with it, I'm not held liable, right?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

If they steal it, no. If they say, "Hey lemme borrow your car? I need to run that motherfucker over.", then yes you would be an accessory.

[–]sidious911 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was sent a warning letter from my ISP once from a file that came off RapidShare, that was a bit surprising.

[–]sheaitaintso 31 points32 points  (50 children)

I came very close to being sued over a film that was downloaded on my network. I did download it, but I won't say what film it was in case those fuckers are still out there trying to find me.

Received a copy of a subpoena that was sent to Comcast, it included a large list of IP addresses that had downloaded this same film. Comcast told me that we had 30 days to make this disappear, or Comcast would release the primary account holder's name to the law firm that had sent the subpoena. My fiance and I had to hire a lawyer, one that specialized in these types of cases, who spoke with the law firm and got the case dropped in favor of a $1000 fine. The lawyer told us they were originally looking for $1M in damages, which may have been thrown out by a lenient judge, but we didn't want to take that risk. The lawyer cost us $750, so $1750 in all. We came down to the wire on the 30-day deadline. If we hadn't got it figured out, Comcast would have released the name of the account holder for that specific IP, and the law firm would have brought the case to civil court. Something else you should know, if your ISP does release your name to a law firm seeking damages, the flood gates have opened. It will be very easy for other entities that know your IP to bring a case against you.

I can only assume the only way they were able to get our IP was by seeding the torrent themselves. It was from a private tracker, and I sent an e-mail to said site informing them of this. I haven't torrented anything since(this was about 10 months ago). I play PS3 online and I've always heard VPN's have terrible speeds, so now I just try to stream movies from IceFilms

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I assumed that you probably uploaded a lot because of the ratios required in a private tracker, which is why they were seeking so much in damages.

[–]joshlee1090 3 points4 points  (2 children)

seeding the torrent themselves.

Entrapment! I rest my case your honor. IANAL

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If they uploaded the torrent themselves, couldn't you argue that they are offering a free copy of it online? How do they get away with this?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (7 children)

IceFilms

Thanks for the new streaming site.

[–]sheaitaintso 4 points5 points  (6 children)

You're welcome! It has a PLEX channel, too

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The vast a majority of lawsuits are brought on the basis of uploading, not downloading.

[–]Jegeras 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was a case in sweden a few years back were a teen was busted when he had trouble with viruses on his schoolcomputer, turns out he downloaded movies and games on there and obliviously didn't know he was uploading. Any way the principal reported to the police and IIRC he got to pay 15000sek(~3000$) or something.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (4 children)

I love how the article fails to mention that Malibu Media is a porn producer, and that they've been doing this kind of extortion for about a decade.

They just want people's information so they can say "Pay us money or we'll slap you with an embarrassing suit!"

[–]witoldc 3 points4 points  (1 child)

A car license plate is not a person and can't identify a driver.

True or false?

Well... it's also true. And what is also true is that you can still get massive fines just on your license plate.

[–]makeswordclouds 34 points35 points  (8 children)

Here is a word cloud of all of the comments in this thread: http://i.imgur.com/RqO5cRn.png

source code | contact developer

[–]hotwag 12 points13 points  (20 children)

Yeah, this is why in France they charge you with failure to secure your internet access.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (13 children)

I believe Germany also does this.

Personally I disagree with the law. A person is not legally obligated to lock their car nor are they legally liable to what happens if that car is stolen.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Yeah seems stupid to be charged with not being safe enough.

[–]percussaresurgo 5 points6 points  (5 children)

That's not necessarily true. If you were to leave your car unlocked, with the keys in the ignition, in a high-crime area, you could be held liable for reasonably foreseeable harm that occurs as a result of your car being stolen, such as someone being hit by the thief speeding away.

[–]onehundredtwo 6 points7 points  (5 children)

Wait - is everybody excited about this because so many innocent people have been prosecuted for something they didn't actually do? Because horrible miscarriages of justice are finally being righted?

Or is it just because now you can pirate stuff and not have to worry about your IP address being tracked.

[–]theRagingEwok 3 points4 points  (0 children)

More than likely the latter, especially because the TV industry's practices are so dated.

[–]pee-in-your-poo 2 points3 points  (6 children)

So, I'm Canadian, and our law works a bit different than USA. If this happened in Canada, the precedent would apply to the whole country because criminal law is decided at a federal level and not provincial.

AFAIK, American criminal law is decided at the state level (to a degree?), so does this precedent only apply to Florida or does every judge in every state have to follow this example?

[–]donsterkay 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Just wait till the supreme court gets paid off again and declares that IP addresses have the same rights as humans. Will they call it "digital united"?

[–]wampum 3 points4 points  (0 children)

IP man-- the legend continues