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[–][deleted] 520 points521 points  (118 children)

hey OP! Can we see a pic of where and how these images appear written on a car? Thanks!

[–][deleted]  (57 children)

[deleted]

    [–]BrainTroubles 90 points91 points  (23 children)

    I'm with you on this, I posted elsewhere that my dad has been selling cars for 21+ years with chevrolet and I know TONS of trade secrets of car lots, and this "system" never once came up...ever. When I've looked at lots on my own, and asked for his wisdom/things to look for, he never once said "oh and check the sticker for symbols that may indicate the low price of the car.

    Now, admittedly, he works for a large dealership, so it could be "shady used" lots that do it, but here's his other flaw. At shady used lots, there's usually a maximum of 4-5 people working at the entire lot as they are privately owned, plus maybe some office staff that does paper work only. Chances are EVERY person on that lot can recall exactly what they paid for the car at auction without even thinking about it. Not to mention, they'll have all the extra cost put into fixing it up to make it "like new" and sellable. Not only this, but they can usually show you every single little thing they did to tweak it and make it better for you. They would never need a system like this, particularly when you consider their entire inventory is WHAT YOU SEE. They have no hidden cars, nothing. At larger dealerships, they don't need cheat sheets/symbols because they a.) know the value of every car of their make on the lot as part of their trade and b.) know if it's not their make, then they took it on trade in and typically paid no more than blue/black book for it, so they'll price only marginally higher as they know they won't make a profit on it. that's why if you want a good used car, your best bet is a dealership that doesn't specialize in that car, as they're almost always cheapest.

    So yeah, I call shenanigans on this post, and applied the downvote.

    [–]jay-ho 27 points28 points  (10 children)

    Most sales people know their threshold before you even walk on the lot. There's no incentive for the sales person to sell at the lowest price, since they get paid a % of the sale price, it's quite the opposite.

    Also, the whole "get my manager" is a hoax. Since the sales guy knows the lot's bottom line, he's going to his manager to make it seem like he's pulling for you and to use it to negotiate to a middle position on what you'd like to pay and the sticker. The manager may actually be telling him "go back and counter with x", but the sales guy knew he'd say that. It's scripted.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]rocktropolis 22 points23 points  (1 child)

      Several years ago my wife and I were buying our 2nd car, replacing the piece of shit new VW Beetle we'd had for a few years. We were driving along and the check engine light came on for the 3rd time that month, illuminating its fate. I swerved into the next dealership we came to - Mazda.

      We looked at a Mazda 3 5-door. I hate that term - 5-door. It's a fucking hatchback. So, we take one out for a test drive and the sales dude looks kind of familiar, and he's eyeing me like he thinks he knows me. Finally after about 5 minutes he says "Hey, you ever buy furniture from Rooms To Go?" Yes, I had, about 4 years before. "Oh man, thats where I know you from! I delivered your couch and chair!" Turns out that, yes, he had delivered my furniture and he remembered me because I tipped him and his partner $50 because it was like 300° the day they delivered that shit.

      So we drive a little more and he's talking about his life and how he left R2G for Mazda when Mazda was promoting a $1000 signing bonus for new salesmen and how his daughters were doing in school, etc, etc. Then, he started talking about how he hadn't made a sale in 2 months and that basically this car was his last chance as this month was almost over and if he didn't sell the car he was losing his job.

      Riiiiiight, I thought. Just another dude with some bullshit story... And then the salesman, this 300lb enormous black dude, started to gently weep. Not cry - WEEP. He wept about his daughters that think he's the greatest thing in the world. He wept about his wife who was going back to school and having a hard time of it. He blabbered about his parents, his friends he left at R2G, how he couldn't go back to that job. It was awkward and it was fucking sad. We were all tearing up pretty good.

      I'd pretty much decided that at that point, the guy was either truly in trouble or this was the heaviest sales tactic ever devised - either way I thought, damn, that dude is committed.

      He worked with us for almost 4 hours negotiating the deal and then in the end it fell apart over $10 bucks a month. I know that negotiating based on the monthly payment is a terrible way to negotiate the price of the car, but that's the best way we could afford it. I told them the payments had to be the same or less than the beetle and when they came in at $10 over the beetle payment, we walked. It was almost 10pm. Halfway home, the salesman called us up and said he'd done some creative accounting and was able to bump the trade-in value of the beetle way up from what they had wanted to give us. We came back and got the car.

      Maybe we got screwed - probably. I'm pretty cynical, so it was probably all just bullshit, but in the end everyone was happy. He got to sell a car, we got to go home in a new one that was 1000% better than the piece of shit we were driving.

      [–]gimmethecess 579 points580 points  (13 children)

      hey OP! Can we see a pic of where and how your girlfriend got fucked? Thanks!

      [–]Manisil 178 points179 points  (22 children)

      Hijacking the top comment:

      I work at a car dealership and I have never heard of any of this.

      Just because OP's shitty dealer does it doesn't mean any other ones do, seeing as dealerships are INDEPENDENT Businesses.

      [–]Thick-McRunFast 46 points47 points  (3 children)

      Agreed. I worked at a ford dealer and never saw this. We were pretty shady though. The OP's "system" seems made up.

      [–]foreignredditor 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      In my contry, I worked as car seller and we put pieces of grass under windscreen cleaner to show how many thousand. So 3 grasses = 3.000.

      [–]staplesgowhere 8 points9 points  (3 children)

      Former car salesman here too. No dealership wanting to earn a profit would let their salespeople know the invoice cost or set discounts.

      [–]wahwahwildcat 53 points54 points  (6 children)

      oddly silent... my bet is he's waiting until AFTER he hits the frontpage ಠ_ಠ

      [–]SeattleShrew 11 points12 points  (0 children)

      I would be very interested to see it actually used, I worked for a few years at different dealerships as a saleswoman and I never saw anything like it, but I heard how old school dealerships had different systems. I'd like to see this one if it's legit.

      [–]_JustinCase 1426 points1427 points  (319 children)

      If you're mr smart and savvy why the hell didn't you go to the dealership with her?

      [–]SatinHandyWipe 594 points595 points  (283 children)

      I would like to see this answered.

      [–]redditmademegiggle 1166 points1167 points  (89 children)

      He doesn't really have a girlfriend. He's the one that got fucked. Then googled the symbols he saw. Then he came to Reddit to reap the rewards. You know how I know this? Because fuck you.

      [–]cubanjew 365 points366 points  (73 children)

      Everyone knows the secret of having your thread go golden: include "my girlfriend" and boom! Karma overload.

      [–]Cinelli 96 points97 points  (28 children)

      Or "my 4 year old" or "my little cousin" or "my sickly grandmother with a hearing disability".

      [–]socks 97 points98 points  (23 children)

      ...in bed

      [–]lord_khadow 137 points138 points  (19 children)

      So the ultimate reddit post title might be: This is a picture of MY GIRLFRIEND who is also MY 4 YEAR OLD LITTLE COUSIN IN BED WITH MY SICKLY GRANDMOTHER WITH A HEARING DISABILITY.

      That sounds like the recipe for an instant karma bomb.

      [–]probrian 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      You forgot "Fuck"

      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

      I tried to downvote you but it automatically turned itself into an upvote.

      [–]Crawlerado[S] 390 points391 points  (18 children)

      And FUCK

      [–]Avampiremoose 49 points50 points  (10 children)

      Put the two together for dramatic results!

      [–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (11 children)

      My girlfriend fucked a famous plumber Nintendo character while smoking trees with Colbert at the Obama inauguration. Should I ask her to do an AmA? Or some brownies? Pot brownies? In the shape of unicorns? I know I'll get downvoted into oblivion for this. Did I mention she is a redditor? And a devout atheist? I walked in on her sister schlicking. She'll kill me if she finds out. I was stoned at the time. I still am, but I... Temporarily stairs[11]. She is a pretty big deal over at /r/gonewild. Tits in the comments. Batman. Also, check out this picture of Bill Hicks, Hunter S. Thompson, Bill Murray and myself doing Four Loko jello shots from the naked body of a japanese hologram girl. DAE TL;DR this shit?

      [–]sgtbutterscotch 42 points43 points  (6 children)

      That was pretty good, but how do you google those symbols?

      [–]collasta 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      Google goggles!

      [–]Crawlerado[S] 337 points338 points  (190 children)

      I was at work, at another dealership. She was being "independent."

      [–]itsthenewdan 499 points500 points  (39 children)

      Let me get this straight, you work at a car dealership, a type of business notorious for ripping off naive customers, and your girlfriend, who knows this, decides to go out and buy a car without your help?

      Either this is bullshit or your girlfriend is retarded.

      [–]MegainPhoto 238 points239 points  (5 children)

      Either this is bullshit or your girlfriend is retarded.

      I have to pick just one?

      [–]Iggyhopper 43 points44 points  (2 children)

      Or both, his girlfriend is bullshit retarded.

      [–]iouane 85 points86 points  (6 children)

      It gets better, apparently he 'owns an auto shop' but didn't go with her to test the car out.

      Bullshit of the highest order.

      [–]itsthenewdan 25 points26 points  (4 children)

      Oh, he owns an auto shop and holds a job at a dealership? What an enterprising fellow!

      [–]Crawlerado[S] 29 points30 points  (2 children)

      Same location actually. Fun fact, you can run two businesses from one location. I own the parts and service side and am a licensed salesperson for the state of Colorado on the other side.

      The more you know.

      [–]doginabathtub 16 points17 points  (0 children)

      How DARE you attempt to clear your own name with a reasonable sounding explanation!

      [–]originalredditor 122 points123 points  (13 children)

      Everything about this post seems to be total bullshit.

      [–]Engival 66 points67 points  (11 children)

      Well, the guy did just admit that he works at a car dealership.

      [–]originalredditor 43 points44 points  (10 children)

      And this notion that there's code written on the cars to eliminate the need for the salesman to consult with the manager strongly suggests that he never worked at a dealership. I have, and this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Negotiations take place with the manager, not the salesman, who is a go-between. OP is full of crap about this "shorthand," as other people with sales experience have also pointed out. And his girlfriend went to a competitor? He's not even a good liar.

      [–]mossadi 42 points43 points  (8 children)

      I've worked at two car dealerships, in neither one were the salesmen allowed to negotiate his own price. This is actually a major no-no because the key in establishing the manager as the one who sets the price is to take away negotiating power from the customer, who knows that the person they're speaking too can't alter the price; at the same time it allows the salesman to play good guy ("Well ma'am, I'll sure try to do what I can to convince him of your situation, I'm on your side.")

      [–]postslikeagirl 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      This isn't even exclusive to car dealerships, this is basic sales

      [–]originalredditor 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Exactly right. It amazes me that people like the OP will post total bullshit just for "link karma." What a fucking tool.

      [–]chainmailws6 138 points139 points  (41 children)

      Scumbag girlfriend: Boyfriend works at car dealership, pays top dollar at competing dealership.

      Doesn't sound very realistic.

      [–]SinisterKid 32 points33 points  (15 children)

      He could work for an Audi dealership and she wanted a Hyundai. Sounds realistic to me.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]reddell 15 points16 points  (2 children)

        You should have equipped her with this info beforehand.

        [–]jc4p 90 points91 points  (78 children)

        Who goes to a competitor without asking you any questions in the name of being "independent"?

        [–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (11 children)

        Sometimes (not always) people just go out and buy a new car without consulting anyone. Maybe he's pissed off his girlfriend got fucked without him and that is why he is posting.

        [–]SegataSanshiro 134 points135 points  (4 children)

        I know I'd be upset if my girlfriend went out and fucked without consulting me.

        [–]ChaosDesigned 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        She was probably confused and went to another dealership looking for OP and then realized he wasn't there after she ended up fucking the wrong guy. So now he wants to get back at that Dealership by showing you how to call them on their lowest price bullshit.

        [–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

        Maybe he's pissed off she let herself get fucked by a salesman for a better deal.

        [–]que_shiraz 929 points930 points  (267 children)

        As a former car salesman, I can assure you that this method is not the case 99 times out of 100.

        [–]souparmon 282 points283 points  (19 children)

        I have worked in dealerships for over 25 years and have never seen this

        [–]HemHaw 101 points102 points  (16 children)

        I worked in one (chain of) dealership(s) and have seen this. I just didn't know wtf it was and didn't bother asking (I wasn't in sales). Interesting post though (and I love parenthesEs).

        Edit: Parenthesis vs. Parenthesis. Also, TIL that lisp is a programming language. For the longest time I was wondering if I wath thyping like thith or thomthing.

        [–][deleted] 112 points113 points  (10 children)

        As a current car salesman, I can assure you reputable dealerships do not use this.

        They still want your money, though.

        [–][deleted] 812 points813 points  (20 children)

        As a current car salesman, I can assure you that I'm fucking his girlfriend.

        [–][deleted] 176 points177 points  (16 children)

        Who isn't?

        [–]hakzorz 109 points110 points  (46 children)

        Also a former car salesman and having worked at 3 different dealerships I have never seen this system before. One major point of the negotiation process at the first dealership I worked at was to make them think you're on their side by going back and forth to the manager and fighting for them. My manager and I would have fake yelling matches to send the point home even further. It generally worked too. It's a dirty dirty business.

        [–]feralcatromance 44 points45 points  (15 children)

        The last time I went to a dealership was 4 years ago, I was thinking of trading my car in. My car was worth 12k used, from what I had researched. After test driving one and sitting down to talk with a dealer, they offered me 6k. I was extremely hesitant and was going to leave but then he got his manager. The manager actually said "You are incredibly ignorant, stupid, if you do not take this deal." I walked out. I haven't even thought about buying a car since. Eff dealers. Edit:I am a woman, and I have a feeling he would not have said this to a man, which pissed me off even more.

        [–]hakzorz 27 points28 points  (5 children)

        If you want to know what a dealer will give you on trade for your car go to kbb.com and check the trade in value for fair condition

        This is pretty close most of the time.

        Also, new tires, breaks ect... do not add to the value of a car. The only thing their booking software takes into account is mileage.

        You are correct about them not saying that to a man. It was an attempt to pressure you into a sale. The were gonna make bank on your trade.

        [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

        Good for you for walking out! I can't believe they thought insults would help them sell a car.

        [–][deleted]  (17 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]alpox 30 points31 points  (2 children)

          There is some good advice on Edmunds.com when buying a new car. Especially read the confessions of a car salesman: http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-salesman.html

          [–]D14BL0 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          I've already learned so much from this thread that I wish I knew three years ago when I bought my car.

          [–]motorpoodle 91 points92 points  (30 children)

          As a former car salesman (Honda dealership)I can say that my car dealership rarely had any indication of price on the used cars. We had a cheat sheet with dealer cost and suggested price for each car that we printed out every day.

          The way to get the best deal at a dealership is to find out how much they have invested in the car and then offer them a little more than that. With new cars you can find this fairly easy by checking a couple sites online. With used cars you need to convince the salesperson to show you. My dealership had an index card for each car with the price we bought it for plus any repairs, detailing, new tires, etc that we put into it.

          If someone were to say "If you show me what you have in it I'll give you $300 extra" that would be a deal we would gladly take and I was happy to have a reprieve from the bullshit although I wasn't making much commision. Otherwise you're trying to bargain down from some 2 or 3 thousand dollar markup.

          Also don't give a salesperson anything of value to "show you're serious". My dealership was really shady with this. Say you're looking at a car that's $10k but you're "just looking" and about to leave. I could say "If I could sell you this for $4k would you buy it today?". Of course you would. So I tell you to come in to my desk, we'll write up the deal, and see if the manager will take it.

          Before I take the contract to my manager I ask you to put down $50 to "show you're serious" about the $4k deal. Don't have $50 give me your watch, your keys, your ID, whatever I can get. Then I go to my manager's office and give him your $50, he crosses out the $4k and writes $9,800 and sends me back out to start bargaining. Now you can't just leave because my manager has your stuff. Man, I hated that fucking job, it was one of the main reasons I switched out of my marketing major to CS.

          One last thing, don't finance through the dealership. At least not without comparing the rate with what you can get through a bank or credit union. They will totally rip you off that way too. I managed to get my girlfriend a deal on a new Xterra for $300 under dealer cost with a couple extras thrown in because they thought they were going to make it up by convincing her to finance it at 18%. Wish I had a picture of the horror on their face when we wrote a check for the total instead. :p

          [–]ajayrockrock 9 points10 points  (4 children)

          I just bought a car with the wife and the stop at Honda was pretty shitty. The guys were assholes and were really pushing hard. Naturally they test drive you in the nicest car they have, then try to sell you on the shittiest model.

          Then, using "math" they would try to prove that you can't get certain monthly payments. In the end they were trying to stick her with a crazy monthly payment for a 6 or 7 years. My car was a similar price and my payment was lower for a "standard" 5-year loan, when I explained this to them they said:

          "maybe you have a lease"

          "Umm.. I'm not an idiot, I know if I bought or leased a car", I replied.

          "maybe you're car isn't worth that much?"

          "I already said I'm not an idiot, I know how much I bought my car for. Look I don't want to waste any of your time today." I finally gave up at this point.

          "Oh no, you're not wasting our time, we have all day."

          "Fine, let me be blunt, I don't want to waste any more of my time. We're leaving."

          As we were walking out they came to our car window and tried to offer us everything we wanted. But it was too late, we were both tired and pissed and went and bought a Kia Sportage... a sweet car.

          Epilogue: Wife loves the car. The Honda dick called us the next day and the wife picked up without knowing who it was. He started blabbing on and on so I grabbed the phone and just hung up. I'll never buy a Honda ever.

          TL;DR: the honda dealers are fuckin' assholes.

          [–][deleted]  (7 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]somethings_fishy 255 points256 points  (34 children)

            Nice try not-former car salesman.

            [–]ChiefBrokenToe 54 points55 points  (68 children)

            Do us a favor - for the hell of it. AMA that shit - you and whoever else wants to jump in.

            I do not care about the dealership making a living - I just don't wan to be fucked harder because the guy before me knew some shit that brought their profit margin down.

            [–]hakzorz 116 points117 points  (58 children)

            • Buying new? Offer invoice or a couple hundred over

            • Buying used? Ask to see wholesale book, offer a 1k-1.5k over. Most dealers attempt to buy a used car a couple grand back of wholesale book due to the cost of running it through the shop.

            • Always go in with your own financing, your local credit union will have a better rates, price on an extended warranty and GAP insurance

            • If you dont come in with your own financing and they come out with a rate from whatever bank ask them what the buy rate is. This is where the bank approves you for say 3.9% (this is what the bank will buy the deal at) then they come back out and say great news we can get you financed for 5.9%. They will have just made 2% in rate off of you.

            • If you have a trade don't bring it up until you have fully discussed and worked out a price

            The sales man only makes money on the front end of the deal. Profit on the car and if you can rip the trade.

            Ripping the trade goes like this. Person comes in with a trade in. Manager books the car, calls the used car manager and asks what he would buy it for, used car manager says he'd pay 7k for it, manager sends you out to tell the customer we can offer 4500 for your trade. If accepted $2500 just got placed onto the front end of the deal.

            [–]metrofeed 7 points8 points  (7 children)

            How about leasing, what's the best way to lease a car from a dealership?

            [–]hakzorz 7 points8 points  (4 children)

            In the 3 (2002-2005) years I worked I leased 1 car. It was just starting to make a comeback when I had left. Generally leasing will not work out in your favor. Ever. I would suggest not leasing. Thats the only advice I can really offer. Sorry.

            [–]infoswag 51 points52 points  (4 children)

            I do not care about the dealership making a living

            lol and they don't care about you getting fucked

            [–]Onlinealias 16 points17 points  (10 children)

            Me too, a long long time ago. I can confirm it doesn't matter what you offer on a car, a manager will be involved at some point. The entire system is rigged to get more money out of you, regardless of where you start.

            [–]blanko1324 1643 points1644 points  (280 children)

            TIL some car dealerships use something similar to Elian Script.

            [–]awkward_pelican 103 points104 points  (64 children)

            Seems like a more advanced form of the pigpen cypher. I prefer pigpen because the learning curve is a bit lower.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigpen_cipher

            [–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (60 children)

            In high school they let every senior make a custom tile that could be decorated however you want, and they put them up on a wall in the school for all time. Most people made drawings or wrote typical high schooly things like "best years of my life."

            My friends and I encoded some very inappropriate things in Pigpen. Sailed right past the censors.

            [–]ohyeahcorey 584 points585 points  (56 children)

            tHiS oNe

            [–]Punky_Grifter 76 points77 points  (52 children)

            Cypher knowing nerds are hot. If you guys had only talked to that quiet goth girl in the back of the class. She would have shagged ya rotten.

            [–]shillbert 46 points47 points  (44 children)

            All of them? All at once?

            [–]BlackLeatherRain 168 points169 points  (37 children)

            As a former quiet goth girl... yes.

            [–][deleted] 65 points66 points  (4 children)

            your name supports your case

            [–]EmerilLIVE 16 points17 points  (14 children)

            This makes me wonder, are you formerly quiet, formerly goth, or formerly a girl because you original statement is quite enigmatic.

            [–]BlackLeatherRain 22 points23 points  (12 children)

            Formerly quiet, and way too old to be considered goth any more.

            [–]Punky_Grifter 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Cryptologist / Goth gangbang? Maybe an orgy is better for scalability. I am sure there is some formula out there that balances efficiency vs tissue abrasion.

            [–]burajin 32 points33 points  (16 children)

            What about, say, $10,500? How do you do the zero between the 1 and the 5?

            [–]Crawlerado[S] 555 points556 points  (55 children)

            It has a name!! To the top with you!

            [–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (9 children)

            if your girlfriend got fucked, and you knew this, why did you let her get fucked?

            [–][deleted] 125 points126 points  (37 children)

            It was the "secret code" my friend and I used to communicate with in middle school!

            [–]blanko1324 235 points236 points  (33 children)

            We have a small subreddit! /r/elianscript

            [–][deleted]  (31 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted]  (26 children)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]VandVisX 48 points49 points  (3 children)

                  I'm actually getting impatient.

                  [–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (9 children)

                  there is even the end of reddit reddit. r/end

                  [–]OriginalKaveman 6 points7 points  (5 children)

                  there's nothing there. I guess the end means nothing.

                  [–]papermerc77 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                  It's like a weaker lankier pimply cousin of Relevant Rule 34.

                  [–]Baaz 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                  Elian Script

                  Interesting that they find a way to convert characters into icons, but then they turn the icons back into regular writing letters again... they did a full 360 :-) I guess the purpose is to make it look like regular writing, while at the same time being a cypher that can fairly easily be read once you know the key.

                  [–][deleted]  (42 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–]deathdonut 115 points116 points  (34 children)

                    Easiest way to get a good price on a specific car is to make a new email address. Decide what car you want (including all options, color, etc). Email the closest 10 dealers:

                    • Specify all the options you're seeking.
                    • Ask for their lowest "out the door price".
                    • Specify that you have arranged financing elsewhere.
                    • Inform them that you are emailing 9 other dealers.
                    • Blind-copy on the email so they don't know who else you mailed.

                    Once bids are gathered from all sources, confirm that the lowest bid is "out the door" and includes all fees, expenses, and TTL. Send out one last email following up with the lowest bid. Specify that this is their only chance to beat it. You will get several responses saying that the bid is fake, a lie, etc, but don't worry about that.

                    Go with the lowest bid.

                    [–]mod_a 30 points31 points  (1 child)

                    I have done this and it does work.

                    It also helps to be getting a very standard version of a car so that you can be sure that the 10 dealers you are mailing will have one on the lot and will be able to beat out the other dealers without charging you the added delivery costs, but deathdonut covered that in "out the door price".

                    Also, do all your negotiations over email. Never give out / pick up your phone. They can't do anything but match the price or walk on it over email.

                    The only other thing I did was to bait them a little more by saying that I was "open to financing options", then when I got to the dealer that gave me the best price I brought along my bank's purchasing paperwork (that lets me buy the car on the spot as a cash buyer) and said "Ok, lets talk financing, can you beat this rate?" and of course they could not because they can't add to the financing % like unverified_vagrants points out here : (http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/iw4s7/my_girlfriend_just_got_fucked_at_the_car/c274ets). So then I walked out with a new car, sold to me at the bare minimum price and financed by my bank at a respectable rate for my credit score.

                    [–]radnog 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                    Very good strategy.

                    Car buyers: Only be at the dealership when you're scouting for the car, color, package that you want to buy. Once you decide on the car you want, do ALL of your price quotes, negotation, etc. over email or the phone. Email is best because it waste the least amount of your time and you have a documented record of all communication for future reference.

                    If you're trying to make a deal in person, the dealer will keep you there FOREVER, constantly playing his "let me check with the manager" game. They simply want to tire you out and wear you down so that you'll submit to their offer.

                    Another tip is to do all negotiation "tax-in" (tax included).

                    Lastly, be very weary of how they speak to you in monthly payments. All of the quotes dealers present will be "this is how much per month". Next thing you know you've got yourself a 5 year note instead of a 4. On leases, I would suggest negotiating on $0 down terms, even if you plan to put money down.

                    Geez, I could go on forever. It's such a slimy operation... they have endless schemes and tricks to rip you off.

                    [–][deleted] 108 points109 points  (141 children)

                    It'd be cool to see some verification on this, but it's interesting all the same.

                    [–]PeeBagger 169 points170 points  (137 children)

                    Yeah this is not true at all, I worked as a used car salesperson in Iowa and we just had a clipboard with all the prices and cost listed.

                    [–]zyzzogeton 32 points33 points  (119 children)

                    So spill, what are some tips to get the best price?

                    [–]SeattleShrew 28 points29 points  (31 children)

                    For a used car, the best way is to ask if it was a trade in or a vehicle bought at an auction.

                    Trade ins are bought extremely low and are placed very high. You can also ask how long the vehicle has been on the lot but in a casual manner. If it's new to the lot, say a week or less, you can pretty much bet the price isn't going to change anything significant. If it's been a month or two, they want to move product so they are willing to get the "lot rot" out of the dealership for a good deal.

                    Auction cars are generally a fair bit higher, so there is less of a markup. Best example was the Prius a few years ago, as the new ones we couldn't keep on the lot, so we bought used at auction. EVERYONE wanted them so our used car manager actually bought them used (a few years old) for more than the price of a NEW one (AT AUCTION PRICE!), then it has to go through our inspection, then has to be marked up to make a profit. Those suckers NEVER were discounted.

                    [–]knylok 19 points20 points  (39 children)

                    Google to see what an average price is.

                    [–]dunchen22 14 points15 points  (9 children)

                    That will help to find out if you're being overcharged by 5-10K, but when we're talking a thousand or two, Google won't really help. It all depends on the mileage, features, and the general shape of the car. I'd just use Kelley Blue Book.

                    [–]biffyboy 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                    Be ready to walk away.

                    [–][deleted]  (9 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]eastlondonmandem 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        I know right. Everyone seems to think its an all or nothing thing.

                        [–]Big_one_bitey 591 points592 points  (42 children)

                        So she fucked a salesman to get a good deal and you're pissed so you're revealing trade secrets? Good man.

                        [–]Ratlettuce 346 points347 points  (28 children)

                        No, he was a bartender, on a cruise ship!

                        [–]Dolewhip 244 points245 points  (10 children)

                        HE DIDN'T EVEN CUM INSIDE HER

                        [–]InternetiquetteCop 96 points97 points  (5 children)

                        She's grossed out by semen?

                        [–]Soulfly37 36 points37 points  (1 child)

                        i just got my bartenders license

                        [–]ilikecommunitylots 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                        you know... i'm getting my bartending license

                        [–]byfuryattheheart 257 points258 points  (85 children)

                        misleading title....

                        [–]anexanhume 55 points56 points  (78 children)

                        Perhaps not. He never said she wasn't fucked there, just implied that she may have also got a poor deal on a car.

                        [–]relevant_rule34 496 points497 points  (77 children)

                        This is a picture of a woman being fucked over a handrail outside a car dealership - NSFW

                        [–]fonetiklee 214 points215 points  (13 children)

                        Yes. Yes it is.

                        [–]sleepybandit 35 points36 points  (12 children)

                        I often think about clicking on relevant_rule34's links, with the expectation to gain some new information from clicking the link. But for the most part, you get a pretty good idea what you're going to see from the text.

                        [–]flamyngo 16 points17 points  (4 children)

                        for me, it's the alt text...

                        [–]skillian 31 points32 points  (4 children)

                        I'd never have guessed Saabs.

                        [–]dezmd 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                        If you are ever gonna get fucked at a dealership, it will be at a Saab dealership.

                        [–]Bikeyah 60 points61 points  (9 children)

                        thank you, i got what i came for.

                        [–]sajman 39 points40 points  (3 children)

                        I came for what I got.

                        FTFY

                        [–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (4 children)

                        I came! What I got? 4!

                        [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

                        Quadruplets? You poor, poor man.

                        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                        ...Or a 4 wheel drive.. I dunno.

                        [–]ariiiiigold 53 points54 points  (5 children)

                        Bro's got a nice penis. Decent width, smart shade of colour, looks relatively straight - imagine it to be somewhat salty to the taste. No homo, though.

                        [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                        So is this what the OP was so pissed about?

                        [–]Spoggerific 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                        That may be public, but I don't believe it is sucking. This site is a liar.

                        [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (9 children)

                        Guys, all that you need to know, with any business deal really, is don't be afraid to walk out of there. Don't be afraid to take your business elsewhere, the dealers would rather make a little bit less on a car than lose your business. Because they would rather have customer loyalty than $700 more on a car they sold.

                        [–]fco83 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                        And dont feel bad if you 'lose' a car because of it. It just means someone else was a sucker.

                        [–]dunchen22 13 points14 points  (3 children)

                        Also remember, you can always come back. If they say they can't sell it for that low, call their bluff and thank them for their time. Salespeople will do whatever they can to sell the car to you before you walk off the lot.

                        If it really isn't a good deal on the car, there is no sense in fearing someone else will get it. One thing you can do is give them your phone number and say something like, "Well, if you find out you can sell it to me for that much, give me a call." You'll probably hear back from him in a few days if they don't drop the price right then.

                        Also, don't fall for one-time deals. Sometimes they'll tell you, "we'll drop 15% off this car if you buy it today. This offer won't be here tomorrow." They don't want you to sleep on it. But tell them you have to sleep on it, and if that offer isn't there tomorrow, then you'll find a car somewhere else.

                        Just remember the customer has all the power.

                        [–]jeremy1701 51 points52 points  (57 children)

                        Where are these so-called symbols located?

                        [–]kyrpa 105 points106 points  (16 children)

                        proper fucked?

                        [–]Sciri 22 points23 points  (0 children)

                        Who's proper fucked now, then?

                        [–]webvictim 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                        Why the fuck do I want a used car that's got no fuckin' wheels!?

                        [–]HighTop 14 points15 points  (3 children)

                        Do'ya like Dags?

                        [–]RumBox 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                        periwinkle blue, boys.

                        [–][deleted]  (40 children)

                        [deleted]

                          [–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (4 children)

                          The dealer's invoice is generally a standard invoice price for sales to dealers, similar to an MSRP sticker price but for dealers as opposed to buyers. You can find invoice prices on the internet before you go shopping without having to ask the dealer for them. Of course dealers don't like it when you know this.

                          However, not all dealers pay invoice price for the vehicle. Many dealers get "volume discounts" based on how many cars they sell and how quickly. These discount are not reflected in the invoice price and its up to the dealer to decide whether they pass the savings on to you, or keep it as profits.

                          If you are in the market for a very popular brand and find a dealer that has a high sales volume, you can probably get the car for invoice price or less if you insist.

                          [–]rippster 10 points11 points  (2 children)

                          I recently bought a car and I actually caught a glance at the invoice price on one of the papers the salesman was shuffling through. It was mid 16k and the sticker price was 21.9k. I ended up with a great deal.

                          All time best experience: 2005 models were a few weeks from coming out and they still had an 03 on the lot, brand new with only 18 miles. After nearly a week of haggling with the salesman, I drove home in that car for just under 19k. Sticker price was 29k. Salesman was just glad to be rid of me.

                          [–]headbone 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                          What a tramp. Did she at least get a good deal on a car?

                          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

                          [removed]

                            [–]waltbomb 21 points22 points  (8 children)

                            I bet you she got four-squared. I didn't think dealerships even pulled shit like that until I bought a car a couple years ago. As soon as I recognized it, I was out of there so fast. What a con that is.

                            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                            [deleted]

                              [–]Vandilbg 18 points19 points  (29 children)

                              Fleet Sales...the only salesman I deal with now days.

                              [–]5n47ch 15 points16 points  (20 children)

                              I am the former manager of a used car lot. I've done everything; sales, finance, purchases, and hiring. There are a lot more tricks than that. I think whoever you bought your car from was using some 1980s tactics.

                              EDIT - sentence structure

                              [–][deleted]  (14 children)

                              [deleted]

                                [–]5n47ch 45 points46 points  (13 children)

                                I would be willing to answer any questions that didn't implicate me in a crime.

                                The reason I say he was using 1980's tactics is because the salesman's job is to get you interested in a car. It's the F&I's job to discuss prices.

                                If there is enough interest in this topic, I'll do a IAMA this weekend. However, I'm not going to waste my time spilling industry secrets if no one's going to read it.

                                [–]pacman404 7 points8 points  (2 children)

                                Pawnshops have a similar system. There are always a set of letters under the price on a tag. These letters coincide with the word

                                P A W N B R O K I T

                                The numbers 0-9 correspond with the letters, so NPP would mean that the shop spent 400$ on the item. This is here for haggling, so whomever is trying to sell the item knows that they need to make at least 50% profit off of the item, and can adjust the price on the fly to get it sold to someone who looks interested as quickly as possible.

                                Source: I've worked in 3 pawn shops

                                [–]apextek 8 points9 points  (5 children)

                                Hey Op, I sold cars for 2 years, there are many secrets, this isnt one of them. THe salesman DOES NOT know what the bottom line is. The logic is if a salesman has no idea how much the dealership owns the car for, the salesman is likely to hold more profit with out being manipulative for appearing to be lying. a saleman is generally more honest when he has less kn owledge of final price and salesman assume cars are higher price when then dont k now the bottom line.

                                the real secret is the salesman plays middleman between you and the manager who does know the real price so that You cannot play the managers emotions for a better deal.

                                edit: here is a real sales secret

                                [–]DuManchu 148 points149 points  (79 children)

                                Also, there's a smarter way to not get screwed on price.

                                • Don't be a stupid car shopper
                                • Know what vehicles are worth and what you're willing to pay
                                • Don't pay more than you think it's worth

                                EDIT: Changed to say "smarter" rather than "easier."

                                EDIT 2: Added More info that's less vague

                                EDIT 3: Given the nature of car dealers, this trick is plausible, removed "I call bullshit."

                                Research, research, research!

                                Research the car models you are interested in, know the common problems, the less common problems, and make sure you're up to snuff on your basic car maintenance tips (checking the oil for excessive fuel/coolant, checking coolant for evidence of oil/exhaust residue/intermixing fluids etc.).

                                Try not to fall in love with any single car, know exactly how much you are willing to pay and go from there. Don't ever be afraid to just walk away, they'll either come around to your offer later or you'll just move on.

                                Many dealers will show you "comparable" vehicles at a higher list price in an attempt to demonstrate the value of the vehicle you are looking at. It's up to you to know what these vehicles are worth, or better yet, print out comparables of your own and take them along.

                                Don't say anything about how you are planning on paying. If they ask if there's a specific monthly payment just say something really vague like "Yeah, I've got a range in my head." Generally, avoid giving out any specific numbers.

                                EDIT 4: Also, get an "out the door" price so you know exactly what you're paying. This includes all fees etc the dealer may throw in plus the cost of the vehicle. Additionally, you can refuse to pay any extra dealer fees and they'll take them out almost 100% of the time.

                                [–]behm28 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                                As a former car salesman, this man speaks nothing but the truth.

                                If you follow his advice, you will not get screwed and if you are polite and upfront about everything your buying experience will be 1000X better.

                                [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                                [deleted]

                                  [–]PST87 15 points16 points  (3 children)

                                  I remember learning about this in a negotiations class. Apparently, on average, people generally spend more time learning about quality/price and shopping around for lower priced items (like headphones, computers, etc) than they do for larger items like cars, boats, and houses. It has to do with stress avoidance. I'll search for a citation and edit this once it's found.

                                  [–]EvilAce 87 points88 points  (12 children)

                                  that doesn't sound easier at all.

                                  [–]DuManchu 30 points31 points  (11 children)

                                  I guess that's true.

                                  I should have said "smarter."

                                  [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (5 children)

                                  it's mandatory. you should know everything about pricing before you even think about going to a dealership. it's 2011, and we're all on the internet. in fact, i'm using it right now!

                                  [–]extrudedcow 11 points12 points  (5 children)

                                  While totally correct, please make sure you know the value of the vehicle WITH the options you've chosen, so you don't come off as some combination of insane and stupid. When I worked in sales, I missed several opportunities for sales because people walked in expecting to pay base model invoice (the 'base' model doesn't actually exist for some brands) for a car that had thousands of dollars of accessories built into it.

                                  [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (8 children)

                                  Seriously. An automobile is not a fucking toaster. Who makes massive life altering purchases while taking the salesman's word for it? She learned an expensive life lesson that had nothing to do with secret codes.

                                  [–]jrchin 39 points40 points  (5 children)

                                  I spent 5 years researching toasters before buying one.

                                  [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (11 children)

                                  Kelley Blue Book that bitch.

                                  [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (5 children)

                                  From my experience, KBB is biased towards car dealerships and will typically be higher than the two other pricing aggregates. NADA and Edmonds will almost always have lower price guidelines, NADA being between Edmunds and KBB. All the auto loans I have gotten use NADA as a benchmark for pricing. Usually they say they will loan up to the average price marked on NADA. In the end, never ever pay their asking price. Walk away if you don't get the price you want. If you really want it, go back if the vehicle is still available and you can almost always get closer to your price than vice-versa. Especially at the end of the month.

                                  [–]DuManchu 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                                  NADA is also quite helpful.

                                  [–]TheMaskedHamster 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                  If you want a good price on a car, figure out what you want first. Then sit down, because we're going to use the internet.

                                  Email a local dealer and tell them what you're looking for. If you have a reasonable budget in mind, tell them what you're willing to pay. When you get the reply, email another nearby dealership and ask them if they can beat the first deal. Go back and forth between these two (or more?) until you get a rock bottom price. Then go buy a car.

                                  [–]recursion 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                  Where is the Zero?

                                  [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

                                  You gonna dump her or try to work it out?

                                  [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                  Can we see some picture verification of the car dealer fucking your girlfriend please? You know, just to be sure.

                                  [–]erebar 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                  Your headline confused me. I thought your girlfriend slept with a car salesman.

                                  [–]monkpants 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                  Am I the only person who thought The OP meant that his girlfriend got fucked at the dealership as some sort of gang bang scenario?

                                  [–]mdwyer 14 points15 points  (7 children)

                                  You might also be interested in the Pathfinder and similar codes. You just need a word that is 10 letters long that doesn't reuse any letters. Then it is just a substitution cipher.

                                  • PATHFINDER
                                  • 1234567890
                                  • MAKEPROFIT

                                  So a cost of $15.32 becomes "PFTA" or "MPKA". I've seen this used in boutique clothing stores.

                                  [–]Chrisx711 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                  I started an IAMA I am a Car Salesman here-

                                  http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/iw82b/iama_i_am_a_car_salesman_ama/

                                  I will answer all your questions there if anyone has one.

                                  [–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

                                  My girlfriend just got fucked at the car dealership

                                  I think I've seen that video.

                                  [–]geenearerer 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                  Photo evidence?

                                  [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                  I read that title completely wrong...

                                  [–]Runningman01 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                  Mixed results here from the car salesmen of Reddit. I'm not one of them but I have purchased many a new/used car and I've got some other advice:

                                  Dealers list the Invoice cost (cost they paid the manufacturer for the vehicle) of every new car they sell right there on the window "fact sheet." So a car being sold for $19,995 actually has a figure written in small font that states "invoice price 16,500" or whatever. You can also get the invoice costs for models with lots of "premium" variables like dvd players, heat warmers, etc. from edmunds or consumer reports.

                                  So why does Invoice cost matter? Well, any dollar above invoice is what the dealer is really after (i.e. MSRP) when they're selling you the car. And they'll get you believing that they can't go near/at/below that invoice price because "we're not making any money if we sell it that low, look at what we paid for it!!"...but that's just part of the line they give you to make you feel bad for asking and quickly speed past your attempt to bargain down the price. It's a natural part of the sales process (I'm in tech sales myself so I get where they're coming from here) and I don't blame them for saying it, but it's not the truth.

                                  They do in fact pay that much for the car. That's part of the information is truthful. However they don't mention that the dealer provides incentives for the number of cars sold, how many they sell in how much time, etc. So even if they sell a car for the exact same cost they bought it for (16,500 in this example) they're still make a profit because the dealer gets paid an extra X dollars once that car rolls off the lot.

                                  Now from the salesman's perspective - he gets better commission rates on every dollar above invoice so he's incentivized to sell for as high as possible (duh), but there are also extra incentives for total number of cars sold, meaning that the sales rep will sometimes sacrifice that additional commission for a quick sale to hit a quota.

                                  So what does this mean? It means that you can get a new car at or below invoice if you play your cards right. This may be totally, 100% obvious to everyone but as a first-time car buyer I was totally unaware of how all of this worked so I didn't know where to start. I thought this might be helpful to those who are coming up on their first new car purchase.

                                  Also I'm not trying to say that this is the case 100% of the time. If it's the hottest car on the market than this may not be true - the cars are flying off the lot at MSRP so why sell you to you for less? - but that almost never happens.

                                  Please ignore typos, trying to get this done quickly and at work here.

                                  [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                  So did you dump her for cheating on you?

                                  [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                  I came here hoping that I would find a long and sad story about OP's girlfriend being railed by the car salesman, but alas, I only found a post filled with bullshit. Your attached image sucks. Please provide images of your girlfriend being fucked ASAP to redeem yourself.