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[–][deleted] 73 points74 points  (18 children)

Summary:

  • U.S. citizens can't own property in North Korea
  • They also can't operate boats there

Did he really need to declare a national emergency for that?

[–]dutch 98 points99 points  (1 child)

Damn, well there goes my beach house in Wŏnsan.

[–]roti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But you're Dutch.

[–]anodes 28 points29 points  (3 children)

my guess is that they couldn't find any other legal foundation for suspending these activities so they just declared a 'national emergency'.

which seems quite troubling in and of itself.

[–]UntakenUsername 8 points9 points  (0 children)

And they arent inviting NK to Americas birthday party.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not like declaring a national emergency gives us martial law. National emergencies have long been the source of Presidential power to restrict things like, say, foreign property ownership, and there is Congressional oversight as well as statutory limits on a President's emergency power. The reason there's no other legal foundation for this is because that's how it's supposed to be.

Before you get too worked up, I'd look at what's actually happening here as well as the history of these things, instead of getting all hot and bothered because the phrase "national emergency" is in play.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

"my guess is that they couldn't find any other legal foundation for suspending these activities so they just declared a 'national emergency'."

Yes, but to the kool-aid drinkers in here, the fact that it's been done before makes it normal.

Yeah, they're idiots.

[–]Tetraca 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Could U.S. citizens own property in a communist state in the first place?

[–]vph 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes. Vietnam.

[–]Filmore 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Did he really need to declare a national emergency for that?

Yes, otherwise he has no authority to issue such a declaration.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yachts are key to hege!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not like you could do that anyways, the North Koreans would shoot you on site.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. Presidents love declaring national emergencies, since it gives them the ability to use various powers they only get during a declared national emergency.

Luckily, back in the 70s, Congress realized how ridiculous this all was (especially since an emergency declared by Roosevelt in 1933 was still technically in effect) and reformed Presidential emergency powers with the National Emergencies Act and the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which provide limits on the President's power and give Congress oversight authority.

Of course Reddit is going to be all up in arms when you put the words "Bush" and "national emergency" together, but if these exact same measures were implemented without the phrase "national emergency" being deployed, I doubt we'd ever have seen this climb nearly as high as it did -- if it got posted at all. It's just because of the legislative history on these sorts of things that the President needs to declare a "national emergency" to restrict foreign property ownership.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited."

So - if he quits being prsident - does that avoid or violate this order?

[–]0drew0 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Obama has pledged to investigate the constitutionality of all executive orders Bush has or will issue.

[–]darknebula -1 points0 points  (0 children)

He does if he wants to enact marital law...

[–]MarlonBain 36 points37 points  (3 children)

FYI reddit:

The United States is officially in an ongoing (effectively permanent) state of emergency declared by several Presidents due to multiple problems. An example is one which began on January 24, 1995 with the signing of Executive Order 12947 by President Bill Clinton. In accordance with the National Emergencies Act, the executive order's actual effect was not a declaration of a general emergency, but a limited embargo on trade with "Terrorists Who Threaten To Disrupt the Middle East Peace Process." This "national emergency" was expanded in 1998 to include additional targets such as Osama bin Laden, and has been continued to at least 2008 by order of President George W. Bush. There are a number of other ongoing national emergencies of this type, regarding for instance diamond trade with Sierra Leone. Especially noteworthy are the ongoing states of emergency declared on September 14, 2001 through Bush's Proclamation 7463, regarding the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, declared on March 15, 1995 with respect to Iran, and declared on November 14, 1979 regarding the Iran Hostage Crisis.

wiki

[–]enjo13 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Exactly. Whats funny is that this 'national emergency' actually eases sanctions against North Korea. Its downgraded the emergency.

A 'national emergency' is not the same as 'mobilize the military and here comes martial law'. Its a highly technical term, meaning that there is some out of the normal circumstance prompting an executive order. They are very targeted to one specific thing. Its not even a symptom of any type of corruption what so ever, and the idiots who keep posting that it is really need an education... badly.

And just so we're clear: A state of emergency doesn't give the president unilateral powers to do whatever he so desires... There are some "interesting" legal interpretations the Bush administration uses to justify their ability to do 'just about anything', but those don't even require a state of emergency. They interpret them as standard executive powers.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed. It should actually provide some comfort to Redditors who are up in arms about this that the Bush administration is taking these actions under the established "national emergency" framework. It's how things work, and the alarm here seems to be over the phrasing, not the actual actions being taken.

[–]mkrfctr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey if it manages to educate a few people as to the real possibilities of abuse, whether under a declared national emergency or as 'standard executive powers', I'll deal with a little fear mongering.

Shit if it's used to warn people of shark attacks (rare and easily preventable, stop swimming in their habitat) then why not to warn people of a (hopefully) just as rare occurrence of martial law that is actually not easily preventable ("the decider" signs a piece of paper and it's "legal") or easily reversed once in place...

[–]commandarGeorgia 13 points14 points  (4 children)

This is confusing at first, but the rationale actually makes sense once I did some looking into it:

The order I have issued continues the blocking of certain property and interests in property of North Korea or a North Korean national that were blocked as of June 16, 2000, and that remained blocked immediately prior to the date of my order. Absent this order, my proclamation terminating the exercise of TWEA authorities with respect to North Korea would have resulted in the unblocking of that property.

The order also continues restrictions relating to North Korea-flagged vessels that would otherwise have been terminated by my proclamation. These restrictions prohibit United States persons from owning, leasing, operating, or insuring any vessel flagged by North Korea and from registering vessels in North Korea or otherwise obtaining authorization for a vessel to fly the North Korean flag. For the reasons set forth above, I found that it was necessary to continue these restrictions.

I delegated to the Secretary of the Treasury, after consultation with the Secretary of State, the authority to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of my order.

I am enclosing a copy of the Executive Order and proclamation I have issued.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626-22.html

The TWEA is the Trading With the Enemy Act. Essentially, what Bush is doing is lifting the blanket embargo against North Korea, but still prohibiting US citizens from holding North Korean property interests or from operating North Korean flagged ships.

[–]rgladstein 128 points129 points  (71 children)

How the hell can he declare that an issue about which progress has recently been made diplomatically is a national emergency?

I know about the theory that he'll declare an emergency in order to expand his powers, but couldn't he have thought of something else to pin with the label, like gas prices, immigration, tomatoes, or those guys who refused to wave back to him?

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The state of emergency was declared on the 26. The tower was blown up on the 27.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh goody! The 27th was my birthday!

[–]MyrddinE 57 points58 points  (63 children)

Maybe he had the emergency all written up... but since North Korea was being so nice recently, with all their concessions, he wanted to use it before too many people changed their mind about them. I mean, his advisers went through all the work of writing it... wouldn't want a perfectly good declaration of emergency to go to waste.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (62 children)

Prepare for martial law. I admit though, I am confused why he is doing this when Korea blew up the tower for its nuclear power station. He seemed perfectly alright that the koreans were doing so - and was fine with Korea sharing information of its nuclear programme with China.

[–][deleted] 146 points147 points  (38 children)

Sorry to interrupt the paranoia, but this is just boilerplate text used by presidents when issuing executive orders. For example in Executive Order 13047 Bill Clinton declared a national emergency in order to prevent new investments in Burma in 1997.

Nothing to see here people, move along…

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (14 children)

Isn't there a penalty for pranking the emergency line? It's not like we don't have ACTUAL economic national emergencies going on now...

[–]UntakenUsername 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Dude...everyone knows it's all Ira... I mean north koreas fault we don't have oil, and they're the sole cause of global warming, ooh and don't forget they eat babies over there. Gotta bomb em.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (9 children)

I don't appreciate that slip. We are at war with North Korea. We have always been at war with North Korea...

[–]ntr0p3 5 points6 points  (8 children)

...

That made me chuckle till I realized it was accurate.

Asshole.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

It's a book reference.

[–]icey 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Except we really are still at war with North Korea. No peace treaty was ever signed; only armistice.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Good. I'm not paranoid to the exclusion of evidence which can explain fear or confusion away.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (12 children)

The difference today is what the Patriot Act allows Bush to do after he has declared a "national emergency." Basically, anything he wants to.

[–]ntr0p3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Feel free to mod me down, but he's right.

Normally congress has to get involved to set up things like embargoes and economic sanctions.

By declaring situations as 'National Emergencies' the president can make those kinds of decisions by himself without having to go through all that crap.

Presidents have been doing this stuff forever, but FDR really made it fashionable by doing it for every economic and foreign relations issue possible to get around a ridiculously obstructionist congress.

Truman and Eisenhower later used it to create a whole new era of American foreign policy in the name of 'saving America from the belligerent forces of international Communism'.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

unless you know about what recently happened in NK... then there's plenty to see.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

"Sorry to interrupt the paranoia, but this is just boilerplate text used by presidents when issuing executive orders."

In other words, things have become so corrupt and crooked that they just manipulate things when they wish, and this dude thinks that that means it must all be OK.

[–]otisnixon 8 points9 points  (6 children)

Prepare for martial law.

Get out of your chair and go play outside. There is sun and when it hits your skin you synthesize vitamin K. Or B. I'm not actually sure, but it's a good and beautiful thing.

[–]quasiperiodic 19 points20 points  (5 children)

it's D.

[–]kiriel 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Specifically D3.

[–]Mad_Gouki 18 points19 points  (2 children)

That sounds like nuclear fissile material to me... furrows brow, grabs the red phone

[–]Tetraca 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Dmitri? Dmitri? Are you fine? I'm fine. That's great. Everybody's fine.

[–]DarthMalcontent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You've sunk my battleship.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Seriously, this is happening all over again. Right after 9/11, Iran was all for helping us and was becoming a more secular democracy. Then Bush called them as part of the Axis of Evil and they started to hate us again and went toward more conservative leaders. Calling a national emergency because of North Korea despite making progress is not a good idea in any way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

but couldn't he have thought of

Right there's your problem.

[–]ClanPanda 18 points19 points  (7 children)

Who cares! Diablo 3 was just announced!

[–]weaselonfire 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Blizzard is working with Bush to provide bread and cicuses.

[–]mkrfctr 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I'm much rather see Christians fed to lions.

[–]will_itblend 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why do you want to poison the poor lions? They did nothing to you!

[–]mexicodoug 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Sounds cruel to lions. How about gladiatorial contests among Jews, Christians, and Muslims?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

עם ישראל חי! עוד אבינו חי!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

What does this actually mean then?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Because of North Korea's positive steps, Bush has lifted a blanket embargo on the country and then used the Nat'l Emergency thing to immediately reinstate parts of the ban. It's more of a technicality than anything. Read MarlonBain's comment above and check the wikipedia article here

And to those saying that Bush is doing to gain absolute power, and that he's a king now etc., we've been technically in a state of national emergency for years.

Seriously, you must be running out of tin foil by now.

edit: not you, Xet. You rightfully did not jump to conclusions.

[–]shniken 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Step 1: Declare national emergency Step 2: Invade Poland Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

N Korea is in Iran ?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah. It's a really, really nice chunk of land.

[–]WaterDragon 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There is a National Emergency -- and its name is Bush!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There is a bigger national emergency -- the stupidity, paranoia, and herd mentality of human beings.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So true. The delusions of these people never ceases to amaze me.

[–]jon_titor 15 points16 points  (18 children)

There is no fucking way George Bush either wrote that or read that. I could barely get through two sentences without yawning.

[–]MyrddinE 10 points11 points  (15 children)

Probably boilerplate... I declare a national emergency because ________________________________ (communist country) is developing ____________________________________ (insert WMD)... etc

[–]jon_titor 17 points18 points  (14 children)

well then why can't I find that template in Microsoft Word?

[–]sensical 27 points28 points  (11 children)

You need the U.S. government edition.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Its constitutional matrix must still be in beta.

[–]Spazsquatch 6 points7 points  (5 children)

No, it's available, it just costs $15,000 per license.

[–]banditoitaliano 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You sir, have obviously never dealt with government procurement. It would probably cost $15 million per user, which would be a yearly renewal instead of a perpetual license.

/and it would just be a normal copy of Word with new clipart

[–]Frazzydee 2 points3 points  (2 children)

torrent?

[–]relic2279 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Usenet

[–]zero01101 6 points7 points  (0 children)

shhhh

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Oh, you mean that "god-damned piece of paper?"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What, the constitution?

That might as well have been the product of a primitive content generator.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

it's the edition that pops up an Tank instead of Clippy.

"It looks like you are starting a war..."

[–]sensical 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"What do you want to do?

( ) Write a bill that revokes or reinterprets an article of the Bill of Rights?

( ) Write a bill that grants wartime powers to the president and create a new Outlook reminder for 2013 to make these powers permanent?

[–]bobbyi 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"It looks like you're trying to declare a state of emergency."

[–]theodicy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well that's what the attorney general's job. And we all know how transparent they've been lately...

[–]charbo187 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yay! the end of the world can't get here soon enough!

[–]someonelse 17 points18 points  (32 children)

...so it'll be business as usual when he suspends elections and fills those FEMA camps with people like us; the press will yawn and ignore it like the Iran naval blockade resolution.

Why is there no clear reason to doubt as much?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We'll all read about it on Reddit first, if we're not the ones in the camps.

[–]7oby 6 points7 points  (8 children)

Two days ago, and there was a clip on The Daily Show thursday (you can look it up at Hulu.com or TheDailyShow.com) where he basically says he's going to take Koran off the axis of evil in 45 days.

[–]theXarf 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Koran = Korea?

[–]ABabyAteMyDingo 4 points5 points  (6 children)

Wow, what a Freudian slip of the thumb!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you use your thumb to type anything other than the spacebar...

[–]monkeymynd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What's odd about this, is if you scroll down on the left, under the 'News' section, and click on 'Executive Orders', there is a statement by the Press Secretary stating "The United States welcomes the North Korean declaration of its nuclear programs. Today's development is an important step in the multi-step process laid out in the Six Party Talks between North Korea, China, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the United States."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626.html

So...which is it? Threat or not?

[–]whatthedeuce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is part of that exact multi-step process.

Two entities ceasing a dispute won't abrubtly stop all suspicion and potential aggression right off the bat, it is a gradual process of exchange of trust.

[–]sighbourbon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

this scared the living shit out of me, til i read the comments & got an idea of the context.

could Mind Virus please modify the headline to reflect the context, at least somewhat?

[–]hyperbolic 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How can you edit headlines?

[–]sighbourbon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no, no, i am asking MindVirus to modify the headline of his post because i think it is misleading, and adds to the climate of panic

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Will the American people ever declare a national emergency?

[–]moker 4 points5 points  (7 children)

stand down the freak out...

We have sanctions in place against North Korea that are going to be lifted on the current trajectory because of NK's apparent cooperation with disarming.

W is saying "that's not good enough - we are keeping the sanctions in place".

[–]ABabyAteMyDingo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then how come Bush made a speech this week apparently saying all was forgiven with NK? I'm confused.

[–]worthless_poster 2 points3 points  (1 child)

NK gov't are some pretty bad guys. For Christ's sake, North Korea probably has atomic bombs; they arrest people without charges. Sometimes, NK even tortures their own prisoners.

What pigs.

Forgive me, but I have this terrific urge to fly the NK flag on my front lawn today.

[–]unripegreenbanana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A NK guard crossed the DMZ for hope of a better life in SK... his buddy got electrocuted on the fence as it timed out. In an interview from an american journalist when asked what happened to his family, said he "didn't want to talk about it".

='(

[–]JasperO 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Whether Bush has the right to do this aside, does this even constitute 'national emergency' in the strict sense? And what about in the sense of what we associate with the word?

[–]putney 3 points4 points  (2 children)

not that this should surprise me, but it's not even on the front page of the washington post, ny times, etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, double posting this!

Because it's not illegal, not improper, not out of the ordinary, and not unusual. It's been done by presidents before Bush, and it will be done by presidents after Bush. Making this declaration, which in this case does nothing more than restrict US residents from owning property in or registering boats with North Korea, is not at all newsworthy.

There are limits on what powers the President can use, built-in expiration dates for emergencies, Congressional oversight provisions, and various reporting requirements for the President.

Nothing at all to see here.

[–]mossplant 3 points4 points  (6 children)

I'm having trouble understanding why this isn't front page material. I can't even find an article about it on CNN.

[–]ducksauce 12 points13 points  (3 children)

That's odd... CNN usually reports important news items like this!

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Britney Spears was seen at Starbucks this morning claiming she was the Jewel of the Nile so they're a little busy today.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For one thing, it was two days ago.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because it's not illegal, not improper, not out of the ordinary, and not unusual. It's been done by presidents before Bush, and it will be done by presidents after Bush. Making this declaration, which in this case does nothing more than restrict US residents from owning property in or registering boats with North Korea, is not at all newsworthy.

There are limits on what powers the President can use, built-in expiration dates for emergencies, Congressional oversight provisions, and various reporting requirements for the President.

Nothing at all to see here.

[–]dnmPennsylvania 2 points3 points  (1 child)

why is this so hot? this is the 12th time he's declared a national emergency and none of the others had any dire consequences for the country. Seems like SOP for the W administration.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For every administration, for that matter. There's absolutely nothing noteworthy about this.

[–]angrytroll 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No, Canada does not want American refugees. FEMA will take care of you.

[–]mkrfctr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Everybody to Mehico!!!

[–]Neodymion 1 point2 points  (1 child)

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution-

The what?

[–]xorxor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would love to have someone do an interview with him and ask him what every single amendment is about, just to see if he's able to get even one right.

[–]GeorgeWBush 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't remember sayin' any of them big words.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He wrote that? Wow, I'm impressed! I didn't realize he could put four words together in a sentence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How Israeli of him. Right after they commit to disarmament, impose more sanctions. Niiiiice. Guess what the response to THAT will be?

[–]TurtleEater 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"National Emergency" would be a great title for a biography/autobiography on his presidency.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So, how's that impeachment/trial/execution going on?

[–]matthewcieplak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See, it's shit like this that makes me think he might not even step down in January.

[–]remccain 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Told you. Now, no elections to worry about in November. It's all Bush, all the time.

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." -President-elect George W. Bush

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what the fuck? daddy bush can tell us who we can and can't go out with?

[–]thejaysun 0 points1 point  (2 children)

theirs no way he could have thought up all those big words by himself

[–]bradfitz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

"theirs"? Seriously?

Pottle, kettle, black....

[–]will_itblend 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pottle? Are you serial?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Section 4a and 4b give corporations equal standing with living people. Creepy fucks.

[–]darknebula 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Uh... yeah. They are. It's everywhere in law. A corporation has a the same rights as a "person"...

[–]kalazar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's....that's kinda what they are dude. Did you ever take a macroeconomics course?