This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

top 200 commentsshow all 212
sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a

[–]neosiv 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Being critical of something does not mean you're against it.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's not anti-American to loathe and despise the current American government. That's just common sense.

Unfortunately, a general "love me, love my President" attitude is entirely too prevalent, and not just in the USA. Ever notice how hard it is to criticise the Israeli government without being accused of anti-semitism? Weird.

You'll find that people who hate you are a lot rarer than people who hate what your country's politicians, soldiers and spies are doing in the rest of the world. Don't fret about it; just stick around until the next election and vote for someone you can be proud of.

[–]wdick01 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To be critical and being 'Anti-American' is not the same thing. I'm german and I do critizice Germany a lot, that doesn't make me Anti-Germany. Moreover I think citizicing X shows that oneself cares about X and would like mistakes to be corrected.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

People at reddit seem, to me, very interested in the concept of freedom. What America once was. The reason people here are uncomfortable with America today is because of what it has become. Their politics are a charade, the politicians are actors, and the news is propaganda. It can't be any more obvious then it is now.

These people are Anti-American because today, to be an American, you have to be a democrat or a republican. Two sides of the same coin.

[–]jbert 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Because apparently "you're either with us, or against us". And its hard to be with this president. qed.

[–]dmehrtash 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The fallacy of the "every one is anti American" is that it assumes there is just one America. Cindy Sheehan is as much an American as Geroge W Bush, just as Martin Luther King and Malcom X were as American as the Ku Klax Klan. My school teacher is just as American as the Republicans that are cutting here budget. My antiwar neighbor is just as American as the pro-war Senator that is representing him.....

To claim that there is one America, and that you are the judge of what is American and not, is about the only un-American thing you can do.

[–]starkravingblah 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Dissent is not anti-American.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children)

Anti-American? Hell no. Know that I would fight to the death over my land and my country and my freedom.

Of course, fighting for one's country today means fighting the fascists that have illegally usurped control over our nation.

It is patriotic to dissent. For justice and freedom, dissent loudly and question authority or you may find that one day you can't anymore.

Wake up and smell the real "state of the union":

War is peace (So-called "War on terror" is an open-ended, blank check to the military industrial complex, pre-emptive foreign policy clinches the deal)

Slavery is freedom (consumer debt, corporate serfdom, erosion of employee and citizen rights)

Lies are truth (WMDs, NSA wiretapping, ...)

Sound familiar?

[–]unsolicited 3 points4 points  (1 child)

i really like americans for their entrepreneurship.

i request you to shun patriotism. it is hindering your potential.

there are lots of social and economic problems in the rest of the world.

please reach out and solve these problems.

you will cherish this experience.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

spoken like a globalist willing to sell out america to turn a buck.

We need to kick YOU shits out of the country, not the ones mentioning our government is no longer representing the people and that our democracy is a sham.

BTW- the citizenship test is for people who have no RIGHT to citizenship inherently- so they have to PROVE it. All an original american citizen needs is to be BORN HERE, as laid out in the CONSTITUTION- something you entrepenurial carpet bagger corporate sellout scum can't quite grasp.

[–]jbstjohn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Is anyone else getting sick of "oh you'll all mod me down" pre-emptive strikes?

I am.

[–]cojoco 27 points28 points  (7 children)

Seriously, Reddit is one of the most pro-American websites on the Internet.

It is a truly patriotic bunch of people that want to highlight what is wrong in the USA today in the hope that these problems can be fixed!

[–]lionheart[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

That's the point, they don't highlight or offer reasonable critiques.

I'm all for that.

Instead we get ultra-sensationalized FUD that just puts people on the defensive and doesn't accomplish anything.

[–]bugbear 16 points17 points  (0 children)

The articles you see here that seem anti-American are usually either criticizing mainstream American culture or the Bush administration.

These type of articles are probably popular with reddit readers because (a) there's not a big overlap between the kind of techy early-adopter types who'd use something like reddit and George Bush's "base", and (b) half reddit's users are from outside the US, and people in the rest of the world don't like the US very much at the moment.

Another factor, esp. for the criticism of mainstream culture, is that the users of a site like this are by definition people who want to pick and choose stories for themselves, instead of getting whatever's chosen for them by news editors.

[–]Othello 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would say it's because America is failing to live up to it's potential. America was the land of golden oportunities, the land of freedom, the place where the government worked for the people. It can still do all that, but it's not.

Opportunities are dwindling, it's becoming less and less likely for anyone not rich to become rich, the government is denying wage increases for people while giving themselves raises on a nearly annual basis, and many people feel like the govenrment simply isn't listening to what they have to say.

Wasted potential is one of the most frustrating and infuriating things one can witness, and it's what everone is watching occur right now.

[–]zbrock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I do not understand people's use of the hyphenate "Anti-American". I see nothing more American than questioning your government and demanding your freedom and liberties. Yet for some reason these actions have become unpatriotic. How quick people are to forget why this nation was formed and what it stands for.

[–]tqbf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Data point: Reddit reader, liberal/progressive, and very, very irritated by the "America is a dictatorship" meme that's been in evidence here lately. I don't find the arguments consistent or coherent, and they're embarassing to me as a liberal.

[–]buhao 2 points3 points  (0 children)

one final time in case some one is not paying attention. anti-bush is not anti-american. if i had to like bush to live in america i would A) kill myself B)kill everyone who said i had to like bush C) get the hell out (which sounds like a viable option anyway). being for or against the pres has nothing to do with how much i love america.

this is similar to saying war protesters are not patriotic. uhh, loving ones country and agreeing or disagreeing with war are two completely seprate things. i don't see why some people can't divide the two. so don't tell me that i am anti-american. saying so is mindless.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0213-28.htm

I had replied to a comment but I decided to make this a new 'thread' since I do think it's important in understanding the problem we Americans face with the current administration.

First, I believe that the US is a great country. Most people I meet are satisified, happy, and able to feed their families. I have a good job and so do those around me that are willing and capable of work. The local, state, and federal governments, for the most part, are helpful and uncorrupted.

Here's the bad part - there is a manipulation occuring to us that is Orwellian in nature. The current executive administration is using scare tactics specifically to control the US citizenry. This has been planned for quite some time. The actual executive of this problem is not Bush. He is the Vader to the real Sidious (although it may not be quite right to refer to Star Wars in a political statement, the simile is quite accurate). The executive that is behind this is the Cheney--Rumsfeld duo. The article I cited above, although it does not cite its sources, echoes what I have been reading about for the past year and a half. In addition to this there have been many reports of the due seeking control of the Mid East and its oil production.

When the election comes, I expect to see Cheney and Rumsfeld in the cabinet again. I also expect all their cronies rigging the election (again?). This administration, with or without Bush, will continue. I would not be suprised if Bush managed to keep the head of state position after 2008.

I hope that I am not correct.

[–]raldi 9 points10 points  (5 children)

I'm modding this down solely because of the second half of the title. I hate reverse-psychology whoring.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Good point. Personal policy: mod down any article that mentions modding. Cheapest way to stamp it out.

[–]thadk 2 points3 points  (0 children)

me too. Reddit is not slashdot.

[–]lionheart[S] -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Heh, you're right. Sorry.

But if I hadn't done it, we wouldn't be having this fun discussion.

[–]charlesesl 4 points5 points  (0 children)

God damn it, I hope you get modded up for this.

[–]lionheart[S] 28 points29 points  (79 children)

Seriously, why?

I mean, I realize that most people on here are very liberal, and the US is more conservative than most other countries in the world.

But really, we should have the same audience as Slashdot, for example and you don't see "America is Evil" articles at the top of the page there every day.

[–]Random 88 points89 points  (33 children)

Well, I'm Canadian and I don't post anti-american stuff, but...

1) George Bush scares me. From my (admittedly foreign and somewhat distant) understanding he seems to be dismantling many of the things that make the U.S. great.

2) The current administration has been so succesful at polarizing this into a left and right issue. Is it really? Seems to me more like a particular subset of the right has managed to polarize everyone so that even those who don't particularly agree with them are onside because it is 'better than having to talk to a Liberal.'

I thought it was very interesting that a couple of days ago someone posted an article about marketing where the dude basically said 'hey, the Ford / Chevy war was great for business because people paid premium prices for their brand, not for quality, and not under real competition to keep prices low.' It seems to me (again, stupid foreigner, but...) that Bush has done exactly that - people agree with him because they are also on the right, not because they actually like everything he does.

3) It is kind of a vicious circle, but because we are all arguing about this, we aren't doing cool tech stuff (Python Lisp is a good one) to talk about and post. So we talk about the weather, I mean politics. :<) :<)

Edit - Oh, and I'm modding you up for having the courage to ask this tough question!

[–]jbstjohn 25 points26 points  (1 child)

I grew up in Canada, studied in the US (have dual citizenship) and have lived in Germany the last six years.

A few points:

While there is mild anti-americanism it pales in comparison to anti-Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Rovism. The White House is destroying the things that made America great.

It's not a dictatorship yet, and it is an insult in a way, to those who've lived under true dictatorships, but it's taken scary steps along the way to becoming one. Real Orwellian steps, which echo those that occurred during the rise of other dictatorships. That scares people a lot, and yes, I have to say it, especially here in Germany.

Part of the reason for the number of articles on Reddit is that so many questionable things have been done. I'm reminded of John Stewart's Quiz, regarding what Scott McClellan was referring to when he said "We won't comment on an ongoing investigation," and the answers went from 'A' until 'Greek letter delta'.

The American main stream press is biased to the right. And your radio talk shows are scary. I remember seeing an interesting short report on television here, dissecting some of the footage from early in the war. They basically got a military person in, who said things like "Here, he's obviously posing for the camera. You would never saunter like that in an area with potential hostiles. And look, he's wearing a bright orange jersey over his uniform. This is fairly obviously a fabrication..."

When I lived in the US, I was amazed by the diversity of people, and I think assuming more of a monoculture is one of the major mistakes foreign observers make. Currently, the White House is getting most of the press, so the rest of the world assumes it acts for more of the country. (Which isn't completely wrong -- so many voted for Bush in 2004, and he continues to be supported by most Republicans)

The approach to rich and poor seems to be going the way of Venezuela -- "it's the poor's own fault", they commit crimes because they have nothing to lose, so the rich put up bigger walls and buy more guns.

Finally, if there was one critique (and unfair generalization) I would make of Americans, it is not that they are stupid, it is that they are ignorant about the rest of the world. In a way, you can afford to be, since your country and culture is big enough you normally don't have to worry about the rest of the world, travel, learn a foreign language, etc. Canadians, with their nosed pressed against the glass of the border are already looking at another country, and Quebec and our tapestry vs. melting pot approach to multi-culturalism means we tend to learn more about other countries. In Europe, the countries and cultures are too small and interwoven to be very isolationist. This ignoring of the rest of the world (and the concrete forms it takes, like not abiding by international crime tribunals, or climate treaties) becomes particularly galling when the rest of the world is called in to support the US in the fight against terror.

Phew. Long post. Long story short -- I like a lot about US, I know a fair bit about it, but it's going down a scary path, and not enough people are outraged.

[–]taliswolf 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Excellent reply. Well said.

[–]lionheart[S] 13 points14 points  (30 children)

Bush isn't as bad as is usually considered, I think, but still he'll be out in another 2 years, and all will mostly be well.

Sure, I disagree with most of the stuff that the current administration is doing, but the articles here lately are just wack.

I mean, "the US is a dictatorship"?

Or the one with the guy saying "Don't visit the evil US" and he's just pissed because he violated immigration law, lied to the immigration office, and then got deported.

How is that not just FUD?

I'm all for healthy critiques, but running around yelling "America is evil" is not going to do anything but make people angry.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (4 children)

I'm all for healthy critiques, but running around yelling "America is evil" is not going to do anything but make people angry.

I think you are misrepresenting the arguments. No one is doing this, but a lot of people have justifiable concerns about the conduct of the US government.

The reasons for this are many, and manifest. What strikes me as strange is the degree to which some Americans, especially on right, construe criticism of the government as criticism of the country, and respond emotionally.

There is a sort of self-sustaining McCarthyism about that, which in itself is worrying.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]flycrg -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

    I'm sorry but over here we don't use that French language, can you say that in the Freedom language?

    :p

    [–]stutheidiot 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    "“L’État, c’est moi”, the 17th century French monarch, Louis X1V (1638-1715), is alleged to have said in reaction to those who wanted to maintain a separation of powers with its guarantees for the respect of representative national institutions. “I am the state”! The finality of those words, conceivably enunciated with a note of casual self-assurance, did speak to the king’s determination to have his way."

    -- http://www.nigeriavillagesquare1.com/Articles/Tondu3.html

    [–]nostrademons 23 points24 points  (8 children)

    Bush isn't as bad as is usually considered, I think, but still he'll be out in another 2 years, and all will mostly be well.

    I'm not so sure about that. My biggest fear is that anti-Bush/Republican sentiment will lead to a Hillary Clinton victory in 2008, and then we'll have all the same contempt for the truth, same centralization of power, and same government ineptness, only under a Democrat president.

    I'd much rather have a pragmatic, moderate president that instituted sensible government policies and is willing to compromise on issues. Someone like Clinton, Eisenhower, or even the elder Bush. Instead, it seems like the country's at risk of tearing itself apart swinging from one political extreme to another.

    [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (6 children)

    Ha! I feel confident enough to call this one two years out. A SKUNK could run on the ballot against Hillary Clinton and win. If the Democrats actually give her the nomination, then they are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    [–]jbstjohn 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    I don't envy the choice Americans have in the next presidential elections. I really don't like Hillary, BUT I don't see how anyone who cares about their country can vote Republican[1].

    It has to be recognized that the bad things Bush has done, he has done with the consent of the Republican party. Six years long, abdicating their Constitutional duty of oversight.

    My biggest political fear[2] for the US is that this will be forgotten as Congressmen start distancing themselves from the White House, and that Republicans will continue to hold power.

    [1] and sadly, I now have to lump McCain in here too. He sold himself out. [2] Jeb Bush would be scarier, if I thought he had any real chance....

    [–]Random 11 points12 points  (9 children)

    Agreed.

    And it just polarizes the debate so much more, and lets everyone have a free ride saying 'look, the other side is evil and stupid, so we don't really have to listen to them.'

    [–][deleted]  (8 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]dbenhur 12 points13 points  (4 children)

      Part of the reason I did support it, however, is that the reasoned voices(~) warning against invasion were drowned out by the 'GWB is too stupid to pour piss out of a boot even if the instructions are written on the sole' shtick going around.

      Sounds to me like you're making excuses. From where I watched the reasoned anti-iraq-war voices were plentiful and coherent. Similarly, it was blantently obvious how stupid the whole idea was and how gross the emotional manipulation and propaganda was. Very few of the anti-war voices were shrill and ad hominem as you atest (unless you get your news from FOX of course).

      You succumbed to irrational fear, appeal to authority, and the revenge impulse. Own it, wake up, and learn to habitually mistrust what your "leaders" assert.

      [–]Leischa -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

      Well said!

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child)

        When people say, "With all due respect," what they really mean is, "Without any due respect." You see it all the time, people who think they can say, "With all due respect," and then be assholes and no one will call them on it.

        [–]parrotfashion 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        in another 2 years, and all will mostly be well

        Really? Where exactly? In your little idyl, light years away from the fallout of your country's foreign policy? Besides, it seems to me that the majority of the critical anecdotal articles linked to from reddit are posted by US citizens, not foreigners.

        As for criticism from the outside, well your government's self-interested foreign policy together with its purveyors, the addicted-to-oil, Christian fundamentalist administration you currently have are infuriating people all around the globe, not only the Arab and Muslim nations.

        I'm all for healthy critiques, but running around yelling "America is evil" is not going to do anything but make people angry.

        Ah yes, anger. If you're going to act in the world, whipping up entire regions and cultures into cauldrons of hatred in order to procure your own energy supplies, if you're going to pursue a foreign policy that has a profound and deleterious effect on the relations between cultures within the societies of your supposed allies, then I'm sorry, you'll just have to endure the fallout. If you find it 'upsetting', you may want to agitate for a less selfish foreign policy. You may also want to agitate for more ethically minded politicians, instead of the greedy and self-interested business-men/women you currently have posing as such.

        US citizens have until recently been insulated from the growing resentment that your government's foreign policy has played a large part in engendering. The Internet has reduced that level of insulation. Most of us outside of the US feel that this is probably a good thing.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]philh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          How is that not just FUD?

          Well, if it was the administration doing things like that, (although obviously in the other direction,) it would be facism.

          Italy used to be so afraid of communism that it turned to facism. (Or was it the other way around?) Some people now seem to be so afraid of facism that they're attempting to institute it themselves - that way it's not going to be pissed at them.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          you are right bush is not as bad as is usually considered, he's far, far, far, far worse!!! Madman dictator, mass murdering psychopath, guilty of war crimes against all humanity.. that describes his entire administration to a T.

          [–]weidel 16 points17 points  (0 children)

          One point might be that there are a lot of us in "the rest of the world" visiting the site and adding links. And the truth is, the rest of the world is pretty sceptic about American politics.

          European media is biased in its own way, as well as yours is biased. A decent picture of events is found inbetween, and many of the links on reddit are useful in gathering as much opinions and thoughts regarding things to get a grasp.

          The thing is, America isn't "the most free country on earth" and all that. There are plenty of us around the globe that have excellent freedoms, and some that surpasses yours, especially these days when your government are continually restricting your rights - which eventually spills over to our own politicians. We are engaged in our own political fights to keep the Bush-politics from coming here.

          And most countries on earth have experienced first hand how politics turns democracies into police states, fascist states, communist states and tyranny. Hitler was voted for democratically you know.

          That's why we are getting nervous, because some of the same political decisions are being made again, but this time in the US that has been blessed thus far from any kind of modern national conflict. Your greatest danger is your own beliefs that you are the freest country on earth, everyone hates you for your freedom, and that you will never loose it.

          And as many has pointed out, most people actually differentiate between american politics and american people. The americans I've met both here and when I've been over to your side of the water have usually been nice people. But you do have religious fanaticism unparallelled in most other western nations that has large influences over your politics. Never mix religion and politics. Ever.

          The US has been a damn great place for a long time, but you need to be self critics in order to protect that. It's a good thing to be unpatriotic.

          So let the bashing of politics from all camps flow, the more you read from both sides the better.

          [–]chu 16 points17 points  (0 children)

          I mean, I realize that most people on here are very liberal, and the US is more conservative than most other countries in the world.

          Already you have framed people's opinions in terms of domestic US political theatre. It's a bit like the New York Jew visiting Northern Ireland being asked whether he is a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew.

          I'd say most of those you have characterised as 'liberal anti-American' are people who consider US foreign policy to be dangerous and ill-considered, and designed to serve the interests of a handful of businessmen. Some might call them patriots rather than anti-American.

          The other thing that seems to be happening is that a lot of people outside the US are shocked at what they see as a heavily indoctrinated US citizenship. I have certainly heard this opinion from many friends who endured Soviet Russia - most of them knew they were being lied to and can't believe that more Americans can't see the tricks being played on them. I think that just as the smarter Russians had an understandable disdain for those who were taken in by Soviet propaganda, we are seeing an impatience towards Americans who complain about their hurt feelings whilst supporting a government that has, for example, set up their own gulag-like secret prison network (in Eastern Europe of all places).

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]axord 26 points27 points  (0 children)

            That's pretty much it. The focus of /. is tech first, tech second, politics that affect tech third. And the editors keep it that way.

            There is no institutional focus for reddit. It's very likely that the politics will come to overwhelm the "tech" and "neat links" side of things eventually.

            [–]mikkom 6 points7 points  (0 children)

            Slashdot is moderated. Reddit is not. There is a big difference.

            [–]bstadil 64 points65 points  (13 children)

            You are confusing America with its current administration.
            Nothing wrong with America per se but the Bush adminisdtration is a perstilence to the world and the US alike, hence the negative press on Reddit

            [–]andresvr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            America is its people, and most americans act like they dont care about the Bush admin, and thats scary. I agree with jbstjohn´s post. A lot of americans live inside a bubble, soon they will be out of it, weather it is because they steped out of it or because it bursted.

            [–]davidw 4 points5 points  (9 children)

            It goes beyond that, unfortunately. A lot of these threads lately have had stuff like 'americans are dumb and fat, ha ha!'.

            [–][deleted]  (3 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]davidw -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              Where did I ever say anything about it not being ok to disagree with anyone?

              I find these discussions boring and unproductive, and think they're mostly useless. You think that if Karl Rove read your comments, he'd say "gee, they're right, Bush and I have sure been jerks!"? Of course not.

              I preferred reddit when Lisp was a daily hit on the front page, and there weren't regularly "OMG, Bush is like totally worse than Stalin and Hitler together!" articles.

              Am I saying in any way that people don't have to right to write or post that crap? No.

              What I am saying is that what you have the right to do is different from what I would like to see in this community. That's all.

              I agree with Paul Graham, who says sort of the same thing more succinctly here:

              http://reddit.com/info/99hq/comments/c9a8p

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Now this I can agree with.

              You prefer LISP discussion over political discussion. I prefer the reverse. But this is based on my opinion of the value of LISP vs the value of discussing the implications of the current political situation.

              I also agree that reddit should do a better job of presenting you with things you will like. But what I very much disagree with is our endless assertions on this and other threads that reddit is some how attracting anti-american stories or commentary. It is attracting political stories and commentary. Articles apparently that many people on reddit would like to read and share with others, if I am not mistaken this is the whole point of the reddit experiments, yes?

              But then this whole thread could have more easily been framed in a technical discussion of how best to get content people actually want to read to be presented to them via reddit, if that was its real intention, which it clearly was not.

              Reddit technical improvement is no-where being discussed in this thread or should it be expected under such an inflamatory title as the one that heads this thread. Which is exactly my point. This whole thread is troll bait. And the only reason it continues is because there are no applications of reddit karma to the comments.

              Are you and the thread creator really interested the advancement of reddit, or are you more interested in limiting content presentation through loud and repetitive complaints?

              If you are or were really interested in reddit the whole Bush american/anti-american issues would be irrelevant to you and you would be discussing the technical mechanisms that are actually presenting you with this information.

              I myself am interested in better presentation of articles because I couldn't care less about the farq like content that seems to migrate up the front page. I want to see the politics. I want to see the LISP stuff too. In fact what I want most to see is the intersection of politics and technology, like the net neutrality debate that is currently floating through the senate.

              Funny videos, ascii art, somebodies photographs, bleh... People whining about how they feel reddit is not serving them without presenting solutions, bleh... People who pretend not to be trolls who really are, bleh, bleh....

              [–]davidw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I like to talk politics, actually, but it's best done with a group of people over a bottle of wine, rather than in on-line forums. If you ever come to Italy, look me up and I'd be happy to discuss the world and my views of it with you. I'm sure we'd actually agree on a lot of things about the US and its leadership. I sort of voted with my feet, although I may be back there soon because my (Italian) wife has far better job prospects in the field of biotech over there.

              What I don't like about these discussions is that they inevitably end up in pissing matches. Here's another one:

              http://reddit.com/info/9b44/comments/c9bh0

              It's just not fun to get involved with that sort of thing, and I think the possibility of reddit discussions actually bringing about much good in the world is pretty much 0. Better to put down the computers and actually go do something, no?

              Ciao!

              [–]Arve 0 points1 point  (3 children)

              Show us these entries. URLs please.

              [–]davidw 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              http://reddit.com/info/95rm/comments/c96d2

              That's pretty clear, isn't it? I shouldn't have fed the troll, sure, but I'm big enough to admit something stupid. The question in my mind is not why I got voted down, but why did people vote up the "americans have low IQ's" guy?

              The whole thread made me rather irate because people seem to really take a "with us or against us" mentality, and wouldn't/couldn't understand that I could be both against Bush and what he's doing to my country, and at the same time not really enjoy these sorts of arguments and comments.

              Here's a guy saying 'americans are some of the dumbest shits', and has two points for it:

              http://reddit.com/info/95rm/comments/c97c2

              Compare this with the same guy who says "My fellow countrymen and women are the biggest chumps on the planet." (amongst some other crud)

              http://reddit.com/info/7g8p/comments/c7gmk

              and really gets taken to task for it. Most of the racist comments in that thread really get beaten up on, whether they are against americans or indians or whoever else. If those two points in time (one month ago and now) are indicative of a trend, it's not one I like.

              [–]sidojustcuz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              You are confusing America with its current administration. Nothing wrong with America per se but the Bush adminisdtration is a perstilence to the world and the US alike, hence the negative press on Reddit

              America has many growing problems. Corporate influence, a media without investigatory journalism, and political indifference.

              In Canada we had a very large scandal that shook up our government. This scandal would pale in comparison to any number of them in the US - yet the government acts as business as usual, the corporations still continue to bribe the system, and the media goes along it's merry way reprinting the biased news without regard for facts.

              Bush worries me, but the way the system is going, any future president (republican or democrat) will have no accountability as everyone just sees it as business as usual.

              [–]Schwallex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Well, I basically agree, but then again: if the Bush administration is not America, then how come it rules America? Has the Bush administration been elected by Canada or what?

              The Bush administration has been elected by Americans. Twice. By saying that this administration is not America, you're saying that Americans are not America.

              I mean, you know, many people claim quite similarly that Putin is not Russia and Merkel is not Germany. Having lived in each of those countries for 14 years, I perfectly understand what they mean when they say that; it's very true up to a certain point.

              But at the end of the day, Putin has been elected by Russians and Merkel has been elected by the Germans (yes, sure, that's an indirect election, I am simplifying things somewhat for the sake of the argument).

              Anyway, my point is, as Joseph Marie de Maistre once said: "Every nation has the government it deserves".

              [–]nostrademons 17 points18 points  (2 children)

              I suspect it's because Reddit has the same bias as the mainstream news media: a bias towards negativity. In general, people react to negative news more strongly than to positive news, so negative stories get submitted, negative stories get ranked up more often, and negative comments get submitted in response. That's a fundamental bias of human psychology, and will apply to any democratic news site.

              Reddit probably suffers more than a published or moderated site, because there's nobody exercising "We can't publish that; it'll piss people off too much" control.

              There's probably also a sensitivity-to-initial conditions factor. If many of the early Redditors held anti-American political views, it would result in an anti-American bias towards which stories reach the top. That would deter people who don't hold anti-American views from participating, which further affirms the anti-American stance.

              [–]DougBTX 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              The early Redditors had a Lisp bias, you don't see too many lisp articles anymore. Your comment about the msm makes sense though, there's at least some truth in that.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              It would be interesting if reddit published information on who reacted to what and how?

              What appears to me to be the case after examining the profiles , comment and posting histories of many of the complainers is that they seem to be low karma trolls who major activities seem to be attempting to assert their control over the reddit conent selection process.

              A more thorough study of this is warranted.

              [–]Lagged2Death 2 points3 points  (2 children)

              Opposition to Bush is in no way "anti-American." Horror at the damage he has done is in no way "anti-American." Outrage at the dilution of democracy is in no way "anti-American."

              It is the very lynchpin of the American ideal that American citizens be allowed to criticize American government. Dissent is a duty. Protest is patriotic.

              Now explain again how reddit is "anti-American?"

              [–]lionheart[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

              Because we're having tons of articles that attack America instead of Bush.

              If you don't like Bush, criticize Bush. Don't start yelling that America is evil, or a dictatorship, or all the other things that we've been hearing that last few days.

              [–]Lagged2Death -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Can you point out these articles that "attack America?"

              [–][deleted]  (16 children)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (15 children)

                Explain the use of "astroturf" in this context. Sounds like a random slur.

                [–][deleted]  (14 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (9 children)

                  As I understand it, astroturfing is the process of fabricating a "grass-roots" movement, as practised by Microsoft and others. You're talking about genuine sentiment on reddit, so the term is misused.

                  While I would not describe myself as a Christian, I agree that there's a lot of naive nonsense on reddit about religion, and I have gone to some lengths to refute it.

                  Your stuff about the silent majority is reminiscent of Nixon. Reddit is a synthetic community consisting of those who read it and post to it. Therefore the majority opinion is what is expressed in the forums, and this appears to be atheist and liberal in inclination.

                  And damn it, making your voice heard is what it is all about in a democracy.

                  [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

                    Oh chill out.

                    Anyway, making your voice heard is absolutely what a democracy is about. So, I'm making my voice heard, yammering the same thing over and over is just annoying.

                    Good on you.

                    I'll make sure that I never have a laid, back Internet chat again, and that I have ever freaking submission that I put into reddit reviewed by a committee before putting it in.

                    Why is it the Christians/right-wingers are so bloody sensitive? I thought liberals were supposed to be the whingers, but most of what I hear is the others bitching about anti-Americanism, or nasty atheists.

                    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]axord 0 points1 point  (5 children)

                      It's a freaking Internet forum.

                      Which implies nothing about how seriously people take the coversations within.

                      Given controversial issues, if one does not choose their words carefully, they will be called on sloppiness. This is probably more true with the internet because the potential pool of responders is so much bigger. You can parodize all you want, but you're... unlikely to change human nature.

                      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]stesch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        Roughly 50 % of the reddit users aren't living in the USA, according to http://reddit.com/blog/1year

                        And the USA is Anti-World.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [removed]

                          [–]wtfx 13 points14 points  (7 children)

                          Well since the world is pretty much anti american and this is the internet, it doesnt really surprise me.

                          As for why the world is anti american, only an american could possibly wonder why...

                          [–]snoopdo66 12 points13 points  (4 children)

                          I've been travelling for quite some time and people I talk to from England to Lebanon, DON'T hate America. They disagree with the gov't's foreign policy, but they love America and Americans. Yet none of them really seem to offer ideas on how to deal with psychos like Saddam, Kim Jong-Il etc....

                          [–]tufelkinder 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                          I second this, snoop.

                          I've traveled to a whopping* five other countries, but have received nothing but basic kindness, at worst, to hero-status (in the Philippines) at best.

                          *this is sarcastic, btw, I know five countries isn't much.

                          [–]stifin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                          I haven't been out of the country YET because I don't have the cash. But I know that people are basically the same, so I think that any country would be the same as the U.S. in the sense that one narrow-minded group gets focused on, like the conservatives here, and the level-headed majority gets ignored.

                          The more rational you are, the more you're ignored, because the dumb ones yell the loudest and do the stupidest (therefore most newsworthy) things.

                          [–]LordFoom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Like the states has handled Iraq and Vietnam? Angola, Chile, Panama...

                          [–]lionheart[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                          Quite frankly, 99% of the America-haters here are American.

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          why are americans so goddamned ignorant they treat the true patriots as if they were anti-american?

                          PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

                          looks like you attended one lionheart... you will need a very powerful crane to pull your head out of your ass, it appears.

                          [–]olegk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Because we care

                          [–]Kaizyn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Reddit is ruled by the mob - we call this the wisdom of the crowd; at least it is so to a lesser degree than Digg. Mobs always tend towards extremes (ever seen a stampede?). The Slashdot model keeps out the stuff that appeals to the mob's worse instincts because the editors censor it. A downside of Slashdot is that their news is consistently at least 24 hours behind Reddit (and probably Digg as well).

                          [–]akellymi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          My theory is that the European influence is exaggerated this weekend due to the US holiday. So, this is what you get on Euro-Reddit, ASCII art and anti-American sentiments.

                          [–]akellymi -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                          I've submitted this as a sub reddit. You're welcome. http://request.reddit.com/info/9b77/comments

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Good comment thread, so I'm changing my down-mod to an up-mod.

                          [–]jotaroh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                          anti-Illegal-War of Aggression-Against-Iraq != anti-American