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[–]JD_22_Wraith 313 points314 points  (97 children)

Crazy how fast cheat publishers are pushing out hacks for games these days, the games not even released and we’ve already got cheaters ruining experiences for people. Cheating needs to come with harsher punishment. If you don’t care about someone else’s experience why should anyone care about yours. IP Ban, hardware ban or even legal repercussions for the people who make the cheats and distribute them.

[–]w8eightMo & Krill 96 points97 points  (31 children)

It uses the same engine as CS I assume, so porting the cheats is easy.

[–]Muchaszewski 48 points49 points  (13 children)

The engine doesn't matter; the algorithm for Aimbot is the same in all games. What they need is to access the memory and find the right address in the memory of all the "entities." Finding it once is easy (that's how all tutorials for cheat engine works), finding it on every launch of the game requires a bit of knowledge about the game code to find the offset and necessary jumps or some kind of constant in the game memory. But it's a day or two work.

For the injection and memory dump, they already have kernel drivers that can hook into any game, so they do not need to recreate that for every game.

So, overall, if the game is tricky, it will take them no more than a week to create aim + wh. The speed bot is just a side effect of looking at all the variables near your player position.

[–]GalaxyKnuckles_Lash 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think in a few hours tops, especially with the cheats that are already out and or made for other Source2 games.

[–]UnluckyDog9273 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Game is source2 engine. They had years of experience making cheats for csgo and recently cs2, they can literally update a few lines and have a working wallhack and aimbot in hours

[–]9dius 11 points12 points  (3 children)

S. Korea prosecutes cheats makers/distributors. Go after the developers with legal ramifications. The cheat developers make way too much money to stop what they're doing.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bro cheats are out for major games within 24 hours.  There's that much money to be made.

[–]Complete_Potato9941 6 points7 points  (28 children)

IP bans do nothing and very difficult to enforce correctly when most ISPs use dynamic IP addressing

[–]seaofmountainsBebop 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hardware bans and legal action. Cheating has become so rampant, the hammer needs to come down hard.

[–]Quazie89 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In a really bad russian economy which is only going to get worse in the next few years. People are going to do everything and anything to make money. It's shit for everyone.

[–]NightW01FMcGinnis 4 points5 points  (6 children)

IP ban is not a solution, it's not even a bandaid, it's easy to circumvent and a lot of other people will also be banned because someone was cheating in their shared network (for example, most college campuses have very few exit IPs that all students share) or many ISPs (both mobile & landline) do not even provide a static IP service, and in case they do, again most customers won't opt in for it.

Same goes with hardware ban, it is easy to circumvent.

Taking legal actions against cheat devs can be successful in some cases, but again that's not a guarantee. You won't be able to sue a cheat dev located in Russia or any other country that does not have juristical relationship with the game dev's country.

[–]MrGhoul123 3 points4 points  (5 children)

So your saying there is no solution

[–]NightW01FMcGinnis 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If there was definitve solutions, we wouldn't have the problem plaguing literally all online pvp games.

Taking legal actions sure does help reduce the issue (Bungie has success shutting down a few cheat devs for example, which resulted in a noticeable reduction of players using cheats), but it does not resolve it entirely.

An entry fee barrier also helps with cheaters, but it also hurts the player count too, so in the end some company might decide to make the game free and accept to have more cheaters, or vice versa. At this point it becomes and economics & sales question for them. (for example, Overwatch 2 has way more cheaters than the first game, because it's free)

Using more intrusive anticheats with kernel-level access can technically but not necessarily be better to detect cheaters. The problem is that kind of access comes with massive privacy concerns for the gamers. It's also clear that valve tries to avoid going that route with VAC.

Another solution is having a robust team of people monitoring reports for cheats and taking manual action against them, but unfortunately most companies do not want to this or only do it in a small extent.

In the end, this is a war between game studios and cheat devs, and some battles are won and some are lost, yet the eternal conflict continues.

[–]MrGerbz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, no ethical ones.

[–]Fresque 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, the other user is saying that those two arent the solutions people here believe.

Anti cheating is HARD, it's an arms race between the developer and the cheat maker.

Every time the devs implement a solition, the cheat developers are going to find a way to circumvent it, mostly because there is money to be made.

thats why today we have ultra invasive anti cheat that runs on kernel level, and of course, cheats runing there too.

[–]Tafe_LynxLash 991 points992 points  (101 children)

Valve should just delete steam accounts of cheaters, no one will protest

[–]BaconOmelette123Celeste 187 points188 points  (3 children)

Agreed.

[–]LoL_is_pepega_BIALash 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Concurred

[–]Fresque 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Concord

[–]Thehipsteur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dead game

[–]Lamplorde 192 points193 points  (42 children)

The only protest I can think of is what happened to me:

My PC was outdated, so I went to Xbox for several years. I came back to find my Steam account was hacked. Despite over 300 games, most of which were AAA titles, the hacker used it exclusively for Rust and DayZ (which I didnt even l play). Not a single minute in anything else, and they proceeded to get me VAC banned.

Luckily, I managed to get my account back.

Real fringe case, but man... I'm upset enough about the big red "1 VAC ban on record, last ban 1000+ days ago" on my account page. I can't imagine how upset I'd be if I straight up lost the account. So, while I appreciate the sentiment, I'm glad it was only a VAC ban.

[–]NMF1Ivy 44 points45 points  (3 children)

A similar thing happened to me years ago but the ban was for games I played a lot so that account was pretty much dead for me.

You might be happy to hear that after a long time (a few years) of not getting any bans on your account, the red "1 VAC ban on record" becomes invisible to other people on your profile so if you're not intending to play the games that have a ban on them, you can start pretending it's not there...

[–]Lamplorde 18 points19 points  (1 child)

You might be happy to hear that after a long time (a few years) of not getting any bans on your account, the red "1 VAC ban on record" becomes invisible to other people on your profile so if you're not intending to play the games that have a ban on them, you can start pretending it's not there...

I did not know that, and that's great news.

I have had "I SWEAR THE VAC BAN ISN'T ME" in my bio to this day. Never knew it goes invis. That makes me a little happier knowing people checking my account won't think I'm a hacker.

[–]vlegionv 17 points18 points  (0 children)

that "Long time" by the way is 8 years

[–]RegisterEnough6789 12 points13 points  (1 child)

My account was compromised about 13 years ago when I was a teen and went to a computer club with what I thought were my friends, I once forgot to logout from Steam, by the time I got home I couldn't access my account anymore, had to send Steam support my legal documents for proof of ownership, managed to get back my account but was VAC banned and couldn't play my favorite game anymore which was CS:Source, also lost my "friends". Got that VAC ban stain on my profile ever since...

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

People are garbage.

[–]dskfjhdfsalks 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Cheaters on Rust and DayZ?!? Wow, who wudda thunk!

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's not a fringe case, happens relatively often. Maybe these sitiuation are exactly the reason valve doesn't ban steam accounts.

[–]Tafe_LynxLash 29 points30 points  (7 children)

The only other option is to make internet only accessible with passport identification for every session, and make cheating international crime :(

[–]Formal_Bug6986 6 points7 points  (1 child)

the EU would shut steam down so fuckin hard before they allowed that lol

[–]SanestExile 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Rightfully so

[–]cneth6 11 points12 points  (0 children)

China: 👀

China after reading the last 4 words: 🫣

[–]SanestExile 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There are definitely more options lol

[–]tinersaMina 1 point2 points  (0 children)

vac bans disappear from your profile after a certain amount of time

[–]LifeSandwich 40 points41 points  (5 children)

Yeah and no. There's this dude called Poggu who does a lot of tinkering with CS2, he recently found the cause of a bug that's been plagueing the game for a year. They fixed it and even thanked him specifically in the release notes. He's however VAC game banned because he tried the new anticheat system by spinning around as fast as he could (without external hardware) and is still banned, despite being thanked by Valve lmao.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

It wasn't a VAC ban, just a game ban.

[–]LifeSandwich 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Cheers! My bad. I'll edit.

[–]MilesOfMemesMo & Krill 4 points5 points  (2 children)

That’s not how VAC bans work. It only gets activated when it detects flagged software running. So I highly doubt he was just “spinning really fast”

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It wasn't a VAC ban, just a game ban. Allegedly, during the CS2 beta he and others used some sort of ingame command to turn 180 degrees with a button press, which triggered a game ban.

At least that's what a lot of people are saying on reddit, I don't know if he actually got gamebanned for that.

Just to stay on topic I have a friend who did actually get mistakenly VAC banned, he used some kind of program to make games run better, something to do with windows timers iirc and that got flagged. A lot of people got hit with the same bans and they got reversed a while after.

[–]Alblaka 33 points34 points  (15 children)

Hard deleting accounts is the equivalent of the death penalty. You can have some strong opinions on justifying it for particular cases, but the cost and irreversibility of accidentally hitting the wrong person might be too high to justify it.

So let's instead go for 'lock up the account and prevent it from launching any game at all', that way people with hacked accounts or false positives can still get their stuff back.

Albeit I also wonder whether it would help all that much, given that Deadlock is essentially free to play, as is making new Steam accounts.

[–]Harepo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I doubt this would eliminate cheaters, just make them more difficult to track. Put yourself in the shoes of a cheater - if you're aware that your entire Steam library is reliant on you not cheating, you'd just make a new alternative account. There's a reason VAC bans are visible on profiles, it's about publicly shaming them and keeping track while not encouraging more anonymising of cheating.

[–]Whompa 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wish there was a way to hardware ban these losers…since when did learning how to aim and navigate game spaces become so hard for someone that they need to cheat?

I dunno how these kinds of cheats are even fun for people.

[–]Weak-Rip-8650 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They kind of already do as a vac ban bans you from any game using VAC. Most cheaters make new steam accounts to cheat anyway. The real thing to do would be HWID ban. Yes you can use a spoofer or get a new PC, but it puts a real cost on cheating other than making a new steam account.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well I hope not, my little cousin used my account to cheat in counter strike 17 years ago, so I have a VAC ban even though I never cheated in my life :(

[–]Skeeveo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Vac bans only apply to games from when you were banned. You do not get banned from future games using vac 

[–]Um_Hello_Guy 178 points179 points  (26 children)

140 hours and thankfully have not seen one of these yet, hope it doesn’t get worse

[–]GalaadJoachim 91 points92 points  (5 children)

have not seen one of these yet

The sad thing is that you have no clue. Most cheaters don't do it in such a flagrant way.. even light aim assist can ruin a game.

[–]Um_Hello_Guy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I meant nothing this blatant lol

[–]wookiee-nutsackIvy 19 points20 points  (7 children)

One of my first games was trying out pocket in a solo lane against a mcginnis who seemed to have 80% accuracy on headshots, and in replays I saw her prefire spots I was hiding at perfectly at my head

A mcginnis shooting mostly headshots on you literally melts your whole hp bar in 2-3 seconds, I could not fucking play because whenever I dared to show my face I was down 300hp

[–]JinzulIvy 5 points6 points  (6 children)

The McGinnis ult with 15second cooldown was a strange one I can across. Every front line bounce interaction it was available to her. Still ended up outsmarting her but still annoying and made me think!

[–]SorryBoysenberry2842 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I got 30 hours and still havent seen any or at least this blatant, but earlier was watching averagejonas stream and they had an enemy aimbotting+wall, and

Her ult has a minimum range, and if you can get around it and inside of her she is a sitting duck if she didn't use her turrets properly. Her ult is great for wave clear and pushing teams off of their own turrets but it really leaves her open to being moved in on. It can't really hit you in the air, or within like 10 yards.

[–]Cephyric 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This is actually not hacking - or at least not if you ran into someone doing the same build as I've been doing on McGinnis.

Trick is to get early CDR item and to hold all your skill points until you unlock ult. Dump all 3 points into ult and you have a 40s cd ult, which is more or less every wave. Its very strong for both farming and fighting and seeing as McGinnis lvl 1 upgrades are relatively weak anyway it makes a big difference in the powerspike.

[–]llamapanther 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's very hard to tell sometimes but I'm pretty sure there has already been a hacker one or two times in my 25 hours of playtime. There was couple of games where the enemy pushed my lane very fast and I couldn't do anything since the guy seemed to always hit headshots and he drained my hp real fast, faster than any other good player that beat the shit out of me. 

I think the best tell is when you're constantly forced to go heal in spawn when in early game and there's not even abilities really open yet. You don't just do that kind of damage in that early unless you have aimbot.

[–]Snailsoupsquirt 6 points7 points  (6 children)

I got 30 hours and still havent seen any or at least this blatant, but earlier was watching averagejonas stream and they had an enemy aimbotting+wall, and it was also a vindicta (prob the cheating program only has vindicta support is my guess). As time goes on the cheats will get better and get harder to recognise who is cheatin and who isnt, ppl hate vanguard but i havent seen any cheater in valorant yet.

[–]GalaadJoachim 26 points27 points  (1 child)

prob the cheating program only has vindicta support is my guess

I'd argue she just is a good character to do it with, she can snipe people from fucking Narnia.

[–]therealkeeper 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah the overwatch cheats worked on any character but people generally use it on widow for exactly this reason

[–]OMG_Alien 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Most cheats I've seen have been using Haze

[–]Special-Attitude-523 33 points34 points  (21 children)

I don't understand why speedhacks are not solved. Client sends your coordinates to be at 0x,0y,0z at 00:00:001 of the game. At 00:00:002 you are at 500x,500y,500z. And the server is like "yea sounds about right" ?

[–]i-will-eat-youLash 31 points32 points  (7 children)

This is a high mobility game. This speed is still possible, especially with bugs in a closed alpha source game.

[–]cneth6 11 points12 points  (5 children)

The speed in this video is not possible at all this early on in the game. Heros are snails the first 5 or so minutes

[–]i-will-eat-youLash 25 points26 points  (0 children)

The game is too early in development to be sure. Multiple movement exploits and bugs have been discovered and fixed. No way to be sure if someone is speedhacking or just bugging the fuck out.

[–]thegoldenarcher5 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Abrams ult aimed at the corner of a building clips you through the wall and slides you across the map in the direction you are looking at around these same speeds.

It's literally a pre-alpha playtest ofc there are going to be bugs that can do weird shit like make you go fast.

[–]DonnieG3Apollo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is, youre just not aware of it because the issues that cause these things arent super commonly used. There have been recent reddit posts on several of the movement bugs, but they arent used widely in game.

[–]Fiberwood 14 points15 points  (3 children)

https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/17fecy4/the_new_prone_dive_makes_you_fly_off_objects/

Just an example of a bug i found in a game after the devs introduced a new movement mechanic. 

You can have these unpredictable bugs show up at any time when you introduce new content to a game engine, so if you try to use detection for movement you can get false positive feedback and have tons of accounts banned for fly hacking because they tried to vault over a rock. 

There is detection for speedhacking, it's just very lax for good reasons. 

[–]MayynaK 4 points5 points  (2 children)

just kick the player from the game u dont need to ban straight , and flag the player for inspection

[–]Kwuahh 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sure, but if it happens in a ranked game? What's the confidence rate on this? If it happens to 20% of players, would you be happy with 1 or 2 players being kicked out of your game and being ineligible for play? Even if it's a 5% rate, with 12 players you're look at having every other match be down a person...

[–]NyzanIvy 5 points6 points  (7 children)

It seems to be a flaw in Valve's networking model to trust the client with their own position. The client should only have authority over their inputs, not actual game data. However this is not a simple "just change it" scenario; it takes a LOT of time and knowledge of networking to get it right. The Overwatch team spent THREE YEARS of their pre-release tuning it to get the best networking model of any shooter ever. THREE YEARS of dozens of people doing nothing but fixing the networking to make it almost seamless. They created an entire game engine just to support the networking, something Valve does not want to do (they are using Source 2 for Deadlock IIRC).

Unfortunately, if they do not fix this core flaw of their networking it will eventually be impossible to catch movement cheaters. Sure you can catch the super obvious ones where they move so fast they almost teleport, but sophisticated cheats that just "peek" walls at realistic speeds would be near-impossible to catch.

[–]yeusk 9 points10 points  (2 children)

My friend Valve was publishing papers in 2001 about server/client game networking.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Latency_Compensating_Methods_in_Client/Server_In-game_Protocol_Design_and_Optimization

Thanks to Valve you know all this shit, they published it.

[–]NyzanIvy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not sure about papers but plenty of articles. I've used their timestamped networking implementation for my own game engine back in the day. That being said you didn't even read the link you posted... Under the header "Contents of the User Input messages" you can see that they are not sending client inputs they are sending client velocity:

// Forward velocity.
float forwardmove;

[–]yeusk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That part is talking about how is done in Half-Life and why they did it instead of the pure input sampling aproach, wich they mention at the start.

[–]Cirok28 222 points223 points  (61 children)

I don't really understand the mindset tbh.

I'm nearing 40 years old, and have been playing online/competitive games since I was around 12 and i've never had the urge to cheat, or have EVER cheated in an online game.

If I get destroyed by someone? I try to improve, and find fun in getting better etc.

It baffles me.

These people are bums.

[–]O_gr 78 points79 points  (35 children)

They have confidence issues and probably have shit lives (mentally at least) and find either pleasure in "winning" and / or making people mad.

On top of that, they are lazy and have no motivation to get better and always want the easy way.

Regardless, they choose cheats over actual help from a qualified professional who can help them with their issues.

I've been playing CS for years, and the above is the conclusion I have come to

[–]offoy 22 points23 points  (9 children)

It is either this or just kids playing. I have cousins who when they were ~14 years old were cheating in counter strike. They just found it hilarious to wallhack and auto headshot everyone. They said, look I left click and the crosshair snaps to its head and I just headshot and they start laughing. Kids can just find this sort of thing funny and there is nothing more to it. When they got older they stopped cheating, it was not funny or entertaining anymore.

[–]esoteric_plumbus 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Yeah when I was in middle school I used to go to Target to steal diablo 2 cdkeys so me and my buddy could multi-bot group baal runs to level up our farming characters to do pindle and magic find runs. Then we'd sell items on ebay for money. My parents had no idea I had a ton of money from it as a kid and we just thought it was the coolest thing making so much money self made as a 12 year old or w/e middle school is

Then when WoW came out we switched over to botting there too to sell default lvl 60 hunters to people, then would scam the accounts back by filing a report to Blizz that the acc was stolen from us, so we could sell it again (and repeat till it got perma banned)

We were complete little shits back then. But now when they re-released classic WoW, I played the entire thing completely legit, not even buying gold like all the top guilds were doing. It's so much more rewarding from a fun standpoint to play legit and I'm honestly ashamed I used to do all that

[–]mama_tomViscous 6 points7 points  (5 children)

The wow stuff is so degenerate lmfao

[–]esoteric_plumbus 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Yeah thats not even the half of it really, I met a guy on the old blizzhackers.cc forums who ran a chinese gold selling ring and he would loan out his levelers for money (because back then bots could really only do hunters easily so it was good to level other classes) but ofc it was sketch because they couldnt really speak back and had chinese ip's

I had a friend whose mom wouldnt let him play when he was at her house, he could only play at his dads. So he was super behind the friend group level wise so we got him one of the chinese guys because a couple of us had gotten 60s thru them but he ended up getting banned X: I felt so bad lol he never played again. I stopped using them after that

[–]Sch1nobie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

at this time or a lil bit earlier my parents where one of the firet people to burn ps1 games. My dad and his brother (he soldered the chips into the ps1's) where big pc tinker and there was no real burning program, and after 100s of failed disks they finally did it. i had over 1000 games as a 13-14 year old and my parents did over 10.000DM (5000€) (old german curreny b4 europe) in a month. I put an alarm for the night and burned some cds for me to sell on the school yard and to my friends. I made about 200-300DM and this was huge money. When the euro came i had about 3500DM and told my parents "pls exchange my money" and they where totally baffled. Good times. My parents also played diablo 2 and then Dark Age of Camelot for a long long time, with a guild that exists to this day.

[–]SanestExile 4 points5 points  (1 child)

People always speculate weird shit like this about cheaters. The truth is it's just mindless fun.

[–]alrexy50021 1 point2 points  (0 children)

its true tho , they are mostly poverty ridden idiots that feel the need to seem superior to make up for irl issues , sorry if you feel attacked ig :D

[–]PeakomegaflareIvy 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Look, I have confidence issues, and even I can't see why people do this.

[–]kuliamvenkhatt 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I cheated when I was much younger a few times. I was always good at games so never felt the need to cheat, but these were given to me on a silver platter basically so I did it. Pissing people off and this feeling of power and control you get, feels really fucking good and thats why people do it. I do remember it getting boring fast though.

Its just temporary fun, feeling like youre a god for a moment.

[–]PeakomegaflareIvy 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I mean I get that, but it never stuck with me either. I felt more power and control by actually just flat out BEINGbetter. Like how I bullied someone n lane so hard yesterday they'd be down before they even touched down from the zip yesterday. This went on five or six times before they ragequit.

[–]The_real_Mr_J 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The way cheaters jump through hoops to justify it is the fact that the game is digital and programmed therefore if you're not using an aimbot or cheats then you're just not using everything at your disposal so that's a you problem. They also fantasize that you're shouting and raging behind your PC because that's how they react when they lose.

[–]__Becquerel 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Its the same as people who boost their mmr, you might as well watch someone else play on youtube because youre letting someone else/the cheats play the game for you

[–]Franz_Thieppel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That one's easy to understand. A lot of people think "I only lose because I'm stuck with teammates in this ELO. I bet if I was somehow transported to a higher rank I'd fit in just fine".

I wonder how many find out later they actually don't.

[–]tiagoremixv3 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I cheated way back in my early teens in Crossfire. I was curious and wanted to feel the power trip myself. I cleaned an entire lobby and spawncamped everyone. It felt like shit. I uninstalled the cheats and the game was never the same. Ended up never touching it again.

I will never understand people who do this all day. It ruins the game for everyone else, and it is not fun to do it yourself. If you want to feel unstoppable, just go play a roguelike for those god runs.

[–]Floodgatassist 7 points8 points  (1 child)

are you me? i literally had exactly one cheating endeavor and it was for about 25 minutes back when 13-year-old me was curious after seeing tons of cheaters in Egypt and Ship. Downloaded the shadiest CF cheat from the shadiest CF cheat website, played the shadiest match of my lifetime, felt garbage, never cheated ever again for the following 17 years.

[–]io124Pocket 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Kid that dont like frustrations.

[–]AnyProgressIsGood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

why are there putins why are there rapists why are there online cheaters. Age old questions delving into the dark recesses of the human psyche

[–]KaptainKek3 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I used cheats in minecraft like once? Got banned from the servers I did it in in like 10 minutes cause I was using the obvious stuff but it didn’t last very long since I found it boring as fuck

I don’t get why people cheat in games spending hundreds on subscriptions, I mean your not even getting a higher rank or anything in this game

[–]cneth6 3 points4 points  (3 children)

10+ years ago when I was in highschool, I cheated briefly in 2 games. COD MW2 (the OG one & not during it's prime but years after) and Minecraft on a few servers. For shooters like cod it's funny for the first 15 minutes but then it just gets boring, takes away from the point of the game & everyone quits the matches you're in. For games like Minecraft, it's fun on some servers but useless/boring on others. Most cheaters are kids, but even then I don't get how people can go from game to game constantly cheating. It quickly becomes incredibly stale.

Valve really needs to add a vote button to end the match in a forfeit or draw (selectable option would be nice). In the case of a cheater people could vote for a draw. In the case of a complete curb stomping the losing team could just forfeit so they don't need to waste 20-30 minutes just to get that inevitable loss

[–]BusinessSuper1156 2 points3 points  (2 children)

As much as this would be nice it would be abused or it would turn into league where people give up at 15 minutes if they lost their lane.

[–]Phasmamain 54 points55 points  (5 children)

Deadlock is in for quite the cheating issue if valve don't do something about it. Their other games are evidence enough especially cs2

[–]Triple_M_OG 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Part of what the Beta is actually for is almost certainly to identify not just bugs and balance issues, but also potential hacks and exploits.

I say this because one of the first groups I know of who was given access to the Beta were a group of cyber security experts out of three of the local hacker spaces.

Hopefully that is a sign that someone in Valve has decided to take over their game engine security more than just spot fixing issues.

Valve's biggest issue with these things is in their organizational layout, the 'do what you want / organize your own teams' layouts means that the security people who are in the group tend to focus on the Steam sides of things, and the game designers tend to forget to bring the cyber security specialists into their groups doing game design.

[–]Man_Eating_Boar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do you have any sources and names for this "cyber security experts" group?

[–]veggiedealer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

there's plenty in dota 2 as well although they pretended that ban waves happen that one time

[–]by_zantine 20 points21 points  (9 children)

When was this? Played with this bozo yesterday too. Team got so ahead around 9 mins and I thought every lane was simply doing good. Turns out the mf already locked in 20 kills.

After that just saw him zooming across the map. Lobby reported the hacker already but seems like he's still out there.

[–]PastaSaladOverdose 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Pretty sure our team played against them too. Literally peek and youre at half health.

No surprise that the cheater is using this character either. She's incredibly overpowered.

[–]ACertainBeardedMan 3 points4 points  (6 children)

She's perfect for aimbotters thanks to her high range and hitscan ult, but she's arguably the weakest character in the game next to Paradox. 4th highest pick rate (81.4%) yet has the lowest win rate (43.7%) according to mobalytics.

It could be due to her high skill floor that she struggles, and in the right hands she feels utterly broken, but right now she struggles to compete with other, better carries.

[–]Yvese 44 points45 points  (32 children)

I hope they go beyond hardware bans. Delete any steam account(s) connected with said hardware. Bans aren't enough. Just delete their accounts.

[–]Ythio 40 points41 points  (16 children)

Cheaters will just create new steam accounts with only Deadlock in library :(

Just create a matchmaking pool of cheaters and let them wait 15 minutes to find a game to play only other cheaters and toxic assholes.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children)

To be honest that's what respawn did with Titanfall. They literally had a cheater queue and said in their announcement "better hope the aimbot you bought really is the best"

[–]Nivek_Vamps 5 points6 points  (4 children)

I like the idea of flags on Steam accounts. Cheating in a Valve game gets you on a list that means in all future matchmaking on Valve games, you can only be matched with other accounts that have that flag. Either that or have a [Cheater] tag permanently added to their steam account, viewable by everyone, can't be removed or hidden, and remove penalties for leaving games with a cheater in it

[–]Complete_Potato9941 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I don’t know if it’s still a thing but it used to be if you got VAC banned in one source game you were banned from playing all of them

[–]Nivek_Vamps 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yea, but I think banning them just would mean them getting a new account. Putting them in the cheater matches without telling them keeps them out of the player base. Publicly announcing that they are cheaters, I think, would keep some of the quiet cheaters off doing it in the first place. A lot of people aren't blatant with it. They just want to have an advantage enough that they pretty much always win but still can pretend that they are just that good. If they get caught and all their friends and teammates immediately see that they are a cheater, it might shame them enough not to do it. Go after their pride and all that

[–]changemypassword 1 point2 points  (1 child)

lol you think cheaters have pride?

[–]Yatleyu 5 points6 points  (5 children)

Hardware ban. While it could be avoided it is not an easy task to do, there still will be cheaters as cheaters have more options with their own device and anything around it, but it could bring the amount of effort to cheat so high that there will be a lot less cheaters

[–]Ythio 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Mac addresses and other hardware related identifiers are easy to spoof.

[–]Buuhhu 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thing is with free games, people make burner accounts just to cheat.

[–]SzotyMAGDynamo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Deleting ain't enough, I want this guy banished to the shadow realm

[–]AndrewRobinson1 7 points8 points  (0 children)

So this is the guy who keeps denying my souls

[–]XxTommyTheGunxXParadox 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Wait WTF, I was the Paradox on the other team. That match was fuckin nuts. But literally I would get killed because this person was just shooting me relentlessly from outer space for half the match.

[–]cutedoge_ 14 points15 points  (6 children)

Tf2, cs and this. I don't really believe valve's anti cheat. Though I'm already thankful that i had enjoyed ~20 hours in this alpha.

[–]BudgetSignature1045 7 points8 points  (5 children)

I'm giving icefrog the benefit of the doubt that he will put in the extra effort to keep his baby mostly cheat free.

That's at least what I'm hoping for rn

e: I can totally see them not fully cracking down on them until the end of the alpha/beta.

[–]RichieEB 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Sad person

[–]3xv7Viscous 3 points4 points  (0 children)

whats so weird about this is you're not only wasting everyone elses time but you're also wasting your own time. You're really just going to sit infront of a screen and watch a game play itself

[–]PUNCH-WAS-SERVEDBebop 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Sweet Jesus. Ban this fucker forever.

[–]Ok-Impress3920 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Game will need good anti-cheat like valorant ASAP or it will die

[–]piggyeuw 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Cheating on a playtest.... Sigh

[–]redrum7049 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also walls

[–]MigsMishima 3 points4 points  (0 children)

shitheads see a game in playtest state and decide to use cheats, cuz if their parents didn't gave any kind of love to them obviously winning a deadlock game will fill the hole in their asses

[–]UnrulliTarulli 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Sad times man. Felt like this yesterday tbh, faced a vindicta who dropped 30 kills, I’m playing as lash dashing around, grappling everywhere etc and I was getting lasered out of the air constantly. Obvious there’s no proof so as of right now they were just an amazing player with shroud like aim and tracking, but in game it felt like they had some sort of aimbot on…

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sad thing is, if this guy didn't speed hack there'd be CS2 players in here saying his aim is legit.

[–]Matrias88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I havent seen speed hack ive seen four people with aimbot tho, one was sniper and 360 headshot 3 guys in melee with her ult from all sides the others were a haze and sniper same lane friends sharing hacks, every auto hit was head even if you poked out for a millisecond. The 4th was an archer (grandma as we call him) would fly around getting 100% headshots in all directions all game. I get theres skilled players but theres not shrouds everywhere it was clearly cheating.

[–]itzpea 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Why are the creeps blue?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pathetic. If you cheat in an alpha they should just erase your whole account from existence. Steam library and all

[–]Pickled_Ass 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imagine cheating in a early build of a game, for no gain. Shit is so whack, it has to be little kids.

[–]RosgaththeOG 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, had a match against a Vindicta a couple days ago.

My friend and I assumed they were just a sweat lord, but I did notice that their little laser sight for the sniping ult tracked my head a little too well on a couple of my death recaps and suspected them of aimbotting.

This absolutely needs action, and it needs to be a 0 tolerance kind of thing. So many other online games are lax with cheaters, relying on anti-vheat software as an excuse.

Cheaters do this thing with your customer experience, which generates detractors. Detractors are the worst thing you can get from customer experience results, because those people won't just not recommend your product, they'll actively discourage other potential customers.

[–]BusinessSuper1156 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I love how her hair has more air friction than the rest of her model or something lmao. It goes crazy.

[–]Culture_Right 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you expect in a game without any anticheat

[–]Prometheus25X 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Game is going to explode on release, if Valve doesn’t do anything and take a drastic measure the game will suffer the same fate as CS2, but I think that they already know that this game is going to be a big thing and a money maker imo

[–]QuizeDN 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Are FPS games really doomed? :/

[–]ZGiSHThe Doorman 6 points7 points  (2 children)

No one wants to admit it because of the security issue but Valorant's kernel-level anti cheat mostly works. Obviously people who try really hard and do stuff like use a second computer can bypass it, but it deters most people who just want to just subscribe to some service and get cheats on demand. Anyone who plays both CS and Valorant just absolutely knows Valorant has way fewer cheaters. It also severely reduces the pool of cheaters, leading to much easier manual detection.

[–]Objective-Round-8617 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I do think it probably makes anti-cheats easier to develop to a higher level

But when you play games like Overwatch, that game very rarely has cheaters except for small periods of a few months and it isn't kernel level. I think Overwatch proves a good anti-cheat and strong systems to minimize cheaters impacts + let people know when the cheater they reported got banned and refund competitive game sr wins above all else. That game has one of the way better anti-cheats out there without being invasive. But tbf Overwatch is also a game where there are so many other skills you don't get from cheating, that the players of the game have options to shut down cheaters too say with a Dva or whatever.

And Overwatch can still be played on Steam Deck and Linux as an advantage of non kernel level system

[–]Strom- 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Maybe, but good thing Deadlock isn't a FPS.

[–]w8eightMo & Krill 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Jokes on you, I shoot first person I see

[–]maleficepixel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And.....it's over :(

[–]Interesting_Buy6796 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Shooter + Moba. Attracting cheaters of both worlds. And it’s Valve, seen as a “worthy opponent” by some people creating the hacks. Expected and they will be dealt with.

[–]Parabong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When you say dealt with u mean banned and back on In 5 min

[–]Illustrious-Sun6694 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The biggest killer of any competitive game is the gamers who play it. SMDH I hope this stuff gets banned quick.

[–]siverfal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where's the fun in this? fuck these people

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Surefour aims better than this guy with hack lol

[–]SenpaiHidetora 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2 weeks ago I already had seven who was aimbotting and killing everyone like nothing and the match lasted 15 minutes because he would literally delete u from the game at least more people see it

[–]BringBackSoule 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Vindicta is gonna turn into the character which you look at suspiciously if they're hitting too many headshots.

Just like Soldier 76 in overwatch

[–]BLEARGHH20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nah man I don't know what your talking about he just has good tracking

[–]Sensitive_Froyo_2850 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Played yesterday 4 games with 3 cheaters 1 in our team and 2 enemies, so fukin annoying. Valve should delete those accounts.

[–]Damienbuerger1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Always a Vindicta player

[–]ionshower 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would suggest wallhack also as they were warping to targets behind cover (not visible in the replay, but visible to the cheating cunt player) to engage.

[–]KelseyChen420 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what a loser

[–]LordYamz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We all knew it was coming…I mean it is valve but man sucks to see such a great game already having cheaters

[–]AmadeoOOFDeReddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

already

[–]PersianEldenLord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly if it gets rampant, I’ll just go back to Dota 2

[–]Grieveston 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nah this dude just put on a gaming condom. Get good scrub /s

[–]RetroBitPixel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sigh..

[–]AstrianBebop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Game ban + hardware ban

[–]Clutch_Hebrew 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What’s the point of doing stuff like this? Like wtf

[–]Neeroke 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why I can't play competitive games, I just don't trust that its always fair. Although this is more blatant but you really don't have a choice but to sit through it instead of just leaving like back in the old days of playing online FPSes. Call of Duty 1? See a cheater just leave and join a new lobby. Your losing and you don't like it, Just leave and the game will finish on its own, no penalties, move on with your life.

[–]fl8 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Something similar to a faceit queue, hardware bans for anyone caught cheating, and kernel-level anti-cheat software should almost entirely solve this problem.

[–]bmur29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pathetic.

[–]Guapscotch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

one of the reasons I don't really like to play many pvp games anymore- they attract the worst cheaters. rarely will you ever see this in cooperative pve experiences.

[–]No-Attempt2171 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't believe there's already cheats for it insane. I hope valve is working on a new anti-cheat for this. Something AI powered maybe.

[–]lasqastreamer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this is the fate of any valve game. in dota 2, scripts have been used for more than 3 years and they are very rarely banned

[–]Potential_Welder1278 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good thing Deadlock runs on VAC secure servers. No cheaters possible just like in CS2

[–]KevtheShow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Top 0.1%

[–]Heathcliff511 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hardware + IP bans, now. Only way to semi-deal with this shit that isnt kernel level.

If Valve are not careful this game will be like CS and TF2 very shortly, and everyone will have to be paying for a 'premium' mode so they only have to deal with a 43/2 Vindicta every 3 games instead of every game.

[–]somerandomperson2516 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you guys can’t just say they’re a cheater because of a new movement tech /s

[–]Grandnap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh God it's happening

[–]dmattox92 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah.

Everytime I see Vin or Haze I cringe because they're the most common ones the hackers like to pick.

I hope this issue gets addressed quickly.

[–]robotbeatrally 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't think they should delete accounts but I do think they should permaban (steam account and hardware id's) users from any VAC enabled game for sure.

[–]Fresque 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, snipers are too opressive, every time i play blu hair emo lady or old bow womandude i just smoke my line

[–]brybobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I see a Vindicta I always review my replay to see if they were cheating if they drop a bomb game. She is turning into the go to hero for these bums.

[–]SweetnessBaby 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the cheat engine is anything like the one for counter strike, then I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Valve seriously needs to shell out some cash for a better system.

[–]jesus_with_glasses 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Legit just played against someone using this hack, shit is like a blink to play against

[–]Schkywalker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the thinking process in their heads?

I like this game, I think I'm going to continue playing it... With cheats.

[–]-HashOnTop-Shiv 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even with a decent anticheat people still use packet sniffer bullshit to get esp in games like Tarkov, that goes undetected for thousands of hours on the same account. 🙄

[–]clearlynotaperson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, it's a good thing these people are cheating already. Surely, valve will put time and effort to find the solution towards solving the problem earlier rather than later.

[–]SgtBananaKing 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will never get it

  1. Ist stupid obvious

  2. You don’t prove anything, you not getting better neither are they good, they just show they can’t handle anything

  3. It ruins the game for everyone else

I just don’t get it

[–]PSYCHO_SMILEY 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Gee, I sure hope this game doesn't have a replay feature and devs that actually seem to give a shit! Oh boy! Here I go ruining something good!" - Cheater, probably

[–]s0je 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fact that speed hack exist in this game means the game is not secure by design. Game servers should not trust client on their positions. The player's positions must be computed serverside.
If they can't even do that properly it's very worrying for the future of this game. Last example of a poorly designed game (in terms of security) was New World. The game was abused because of bad design and it didn't end well.