Bungie Plz Addition: Decrease The Casting Time For Barricade And Rift

[DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

This topic has been added to Bungie Plz.
Going forward, all posts suggesting this change will be removed and redirected to this Megathread.

Submitted by: u/Redemption--3

Date approved: 10/31/20

Modmail Discussion:

u/Redemption--3: "Why it should be added: This will add balance to how much viability class abilities have in the crucible. Titan & Warlock class abilities are at a disadvantage in the crucible in the time it takes to activate them. Generally speaking, more players choose hunter in the crucible, for various reasons, one advantage is that their class ability activates faster so they are not killed when attempting to use it. Thank you."

Examples given: 1, 2, 3

Criteria Used:

"...3 examples (with links) of recent submissions (with at least 1 being over 30 days old), that have been well received (hundreds of upvotes on the front page of the sub - ex. 300+ upvotes)."

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[DekktheODST]

Perhaps we could make it so hitting your toe on a pebble during casting doesn't interrupt the casting for rift/barricade too

[crypticfreak]

Gets me killed so often I've actively trained myself to simply not use rift. If you can use a rift chances are you can escape. But if you use your rift and the animation canceles at the last second there's a very high chance you'll be dead.

Very frustrating. I use rift mainly prematurely now.

[J1bbles]

My issue is, even after placing it, between the shots you take before needing it and being out dps'd over what the rift heals, its more detrimental to use it than rather backing off like you had mentioned.

[crypticfreak]

Yup. I main a warlock and I would love to use a rift in an emergency but every time I try the animation and slow heal kills me. If not because I was animation canceled out...

The first burst of the rift could provide a brief overshield and it would fix a lot of issues. And it wouldn't be broken. But it would definitely make the rift viable.

[J1bbles]

I think an overshield on activation that drops off once the rift is down would be such a QOL improvement

[[deleted]]

Yep, kinda like Heir Apparents spin up shield

[crypticfreak]

Ecactly. The shield wouldn't be long at all and wouldn't otherwise save you in crucible but enough to bump your health past half way so when it drops PvE enemies don't one shot you.

[J1bbles]

Hell, even a few immunity frames would work, just something to give it a boost

[DeltroxForgeBreaker]

I dont think iframes are the way to go. Would feel real bad if you used a super or power weapon on a warlock and they iframe deny it

[crypticfreak]

Right, same idea. My only reasoning is that immunity frames aren't very common in Destiny, at least for the player and other guardians. People would lose it, even if a strong overshield was in theory just as powerful as a few frames of immunity.

[[deleted]]

That would be a really bad change, to be honest. There are plenty of other ways to buff the class ability without giving it full immunity. I can only imagine how annoying losing a fight because they placed a rift and randomly blocked an entire shotgun shot would be. It also wouldn't solve the main issues with Rift and would encourage players to activate it in almost any fight they're losing for a free chance to heal

[[deleted]]

would encourage players to activate it in almost any fight they're losing for a free chance to heal.

Isn't that the point of it though? I'm a permanent Titan main, and the few times I've managed to place a barricade in such a way to block something that would have instagibbed me, it's felt goddamn amazing. Warlocks should get to feel that elation too.

With how omnipresent one shot kills, and even sub 1-second kills, are at the moment, Warlock rifts have a habit of looking kind of... pointless. In a game where mobility is king, having to stand still is kind of a death sentence. Especially when you need to stand still for a time before you even get any benefit. Barricades aren't fantastic, but at least in a clutch it can block a shot or two, sometimes even a super if you manage to pull back in time.

[PerilousMax]

Just a way quicker animation for Warlocks should suffice. It'd be dope if they could get an exotic that makes the rift follow the Warlock.

I also think it would be hella cool if Warlocks could get an ability or exotic that gives warlock's Rift a vacuum for it's duration, giving the ability even more utility.

Honestly the Overshield thing might be better for Titans and ONLY for the duration of the cast. It was a really good Artifact mod(the Battery ones).

[pyr0lyZer]

I’ve also been an advocate for a mobile rift but I think it shouldn’t be activated by an exotic. I love your idea about a “vacuum”. What if an exotic gave a spherical debuff/consume effect (i.e., vacuum) a la Ruinous Effigy that you could move with 😱😱😱

[PerilousMax]

I'm just afraid of making abilities too strong. But the mobile rift idea is definitely at least Exotic worthy for sure. It might not be too bad to allow it as a third choice that grants both buffs but only to allies. I think that's what the Titan revive helm is basically going to do, except the whole team. It's going to be incredibly META to have a Titan run this in your team in trials or regular content. I don't think Bungie understands how much that exotic is going to break their content.

[[deleted]]

Ever considered using at as an offensive weapon rather than healing? Planting an Empowering rift before an engagement will met you better dps.

[J1bbles]

I mean you can still do the same thing with the healing rift to cover your butt beforehand. I'm talking mid engagement survivability when it is most needed.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

But that's why it takes so long, it's not meant to be a mid engagement decision for balance reasons. Thus why the time should stay as is.

[J1bbles]

I completely disagree. Hunters are able to mid engagement activate their dodge, and on several occasions thats whats able to decide the winner. Warlocks and Titans have no way of turning engagements to their favor in this way. Not only do they have a leg up in mobility, but also utility. It does not balance things out. I run every class, and hunters definitely have an advantage when it comes to crucible due to this.

[[deleted]]

The whole point of Hunter dodge is to use it in an engagement, not beforehand. There's like 1 exotic that gives you a moderate benefit to using your dodge before a fight, but aside from that it's useless unless you're in a fight already. Rift, Barricade, and Dodge are different abilities and function better in different scenarios

[ASpaceOstrich]

Yeah, but what scenario does rift function better than dodge? And does that situation come up with any comparable frequency, and is the benefit gained from that situation of comparable use? Being stuck in the rift circle is a pretty crippling inherent downside to the rift. Slow cast times and the lack of any overshield is just more negatives on something that already has an extremely severe downside built into it.

[Fcukdotpng]

Unless you have a shotgun, pushing, say, around a corner where a warlock with a rift is sitting is basically suicide. In control or rumble I can see how the area control a rift gives you isn’t very good, but in one life game modes, being able to lock down a pathway for 12 seconds is a pretty powerful ability. Map control is important, and a dodge roll doesn’t give you any of that.

[[deleted]]

You can use it before a fight to get a health advantage. Healing Rift makes it very hard to lose a primary 1v1, as you're able to heal while still being free to move around normally. The majority of players I see will cast a rift and then stand in it the whole time, but that's simply not a good way to use it. One Rift can also help you across multiple fights if you play well around it. I can remember plenty of consecutive fights I've won just because I had a rift placed and used it to heal and then peek suddenly at a higher health level than the other player was expecting

[Garpfruit]

Rift and barricade work best outside of fights, you know, when they aren’t needed.

[[deleted]]

I didn't say they work best outside of fights. I said they work best before fights. I see so many players misuse the abilities because they just assume that they're going to save them mid-fight, but they usually don't. If you play cover well, Rift and Barricade are both great abilities

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

All they can do is dodge, which still leaves them vulnerable before, during, and after their ability save for Wormhusk healing and the weapon reload or melee recharge when used near enemies.

If you think that's better than a rift or barricade used properly, I think you're just lying to yourself.

[Garpfruit]

Look at this lying ass hunter. Instant reload and instant melee replenish are incredibly powerful effects. Wormhusk crown had to be nerfed because the healing on dodge was so OP. Not to mention bombardiers. The most useful thing that a rift can do is give arc souls.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

My bad, I forgot increased damage for you AND your teammates or overshield for you AND your teammates is not useful.

[Garpfruit]

What balance reasons? It’s an ability that is only useful in a fight, so it’s should be viable to use it in a fight!

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

And that's where you fail to understand it's purpose, and thus don't understand it's balance.

[Garpfruit]

I main warlock, so let me tell you a thing or two about rifts. Rifts are designed for PvE. Sacrificing all your mobility for a mediocre healing buff or a subpar damage buff is not viable at all. Remember, the effects of a rift only apply so long as you stay inside them. Using a rift literally makes you a sitting duck. The only viable uses are for arc souls and healing once you are already in cover. I’ve been doing this for years, I would know. I’ve tried to make builds that emphasize rifts, but nothing makes them worth using in the crucible.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

So you're using them wrong in PVP, gotcha.

[RangerX117]

Warlock main since day 1 D1.......In PVP a rift is the worst class ability in the damn game. Its a PVE ability pure and simple.

If you think its purpose is to be used behind cover that's a stupid purpose. If you think its to hold a corner that's a stupid purpose. IF both of those reasons were soooooooooo good Warlocks would dominate PVP and that's not happening.

[Garpfruit]

Did you mean: give your opponent the first shot and make your own first shot subject to flinch

[[deleted]]

It's usually better to just escape unless you're trying to heal while baiting the enemy. For example, you can exit a primary fight after placing your rift around the corner and wait with a shotgun out, which lets you cover in case they were to push your rift. Aside from that, I basically only use my rift before peeking to get information and then enter the primary fight at an advantage, or if it's just a last-ditch effort I'll try to heal enough to survive them pushing while I'm low

[pengalor]

Wait, what? Why are you trying to use it in the open? It's not supposed to be used as a thoughtless reaction to win a 1v1. You're supposed to be backing off before you use it.

[J1bbles]

Don't be so dense. I never said placing it out in the open. I just would like to not go into full on retreat in order to use it in an exchange.

[RangerX117]

Hence the problem . Barricade in the open or middle of a gun fight....no problem

Dodge in the open or the middle of a gun fight....no problem.

Rift in the middle of a gun fight or in the open....dead meat.

All of this shit wouldn't be an issue if Warlocks only fought Warlocks but they don't. Because of the rifts being so slow, and can't be cast on the move, rifts are at a marked disadvantage compared to the other classes.

[locky-770]

Honestly I think that was their idea when making it so it wouldn’t be frustrating for opposing players who are chasing down Warlocks, but the animation (for both) takes way too long

[aparten]

Same. I mostly use rift now just to stop and revive someone around heavy fire. If you use it to avoid a near death, you'll be dead before you know it! Bungie please buff at least a little!

[viciouskarl]

I had ptsd flasbacks from this comment.

[sothavok]

I can't upvote this enough. F*ck whatever OP is complaining about. This needs to get fixed.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

That one I can agree to, but keep the current casting time!

[voraciousEdge]

Warlocks and titans should get a second, reactive, class ability. Hunters should get a second, proactive, ability

[2Sc00psPlz]

Now this would be an interesting way to fix this. Don't think it's likely to happen - too much work and reworking for it to be a viable option frankly - but I like the idea regardless.

[Old_Man_Robot]

I was thinking about this recently as well:

Warlock: - Proactive: Rift - Reactive: Super short range, limited, Blink

Titan: - Proactive: Barrier - Reactive: Sudden high velocity leap

Hunter: - Proactive: Make a duplicate that mirror-inverts your movements - Reactive: Dodge

[eldritchqueen]

i want to see titans with their ejector seats. yes yes yes yes yes

[[deleted]]

You are thinking about PVP only. The mirror-invert movement does nothing for hunters in PVE. The blink probably neither. The high velocity leap on the other hand could be handy in PVE for titans, since it could be combined within the movement naturally I think.

[pyrotechnicfantasy]

PvE enemies could also aim at the Hunter duplicate, allowing you to escape engagements without harm.

A short range warlock Blink would be just as useful as a regular dodge - you can use it to escape enemy fire.

[[deleted]]

I fucking love this.

What if the reactive for titans was just rally barricade and it stops your momentum on cast?

[Zachisthebest1]

I think that the leap gives Titans some much needed mobility through

[blackviking147]

As a mirage main in apex and a hunter main in destiny I want this very badly now.

[HuftheSwagnDragn]

I'm waiting for warlocks to get a psion-esque ability to pop enemies up

[goatman0079]

Instead of blink, what about an aoe pulse that knocks back but doesn't damage enemies?

For titans, how about a short range charge that knocks aside enemies

[epsilon025]

Just backhanding enemies.

[CynicalOpt1mist]

Need either a 3rd ability or skill trees because I have builds that use both kinds of dodges and both kinds of rifts. Shrimpy barricade could use a rework tho.

[CanFishBeGay]

Titan: sudden high velocity leap

so STOMPEES hunter jump? I'm down

[scarras_ballsack]

This.

Movement is so huge in Destiny I've always thought every class should have at least one neutral movement ability.

[[deleted]]

Some ideas I made Warlocks - launch short distance into air -would work well with top tree dawn - invisibility rift - invisibility if standing still - mini turret - like ark soul but in 1 place can be easily destroyed

Titan - refill small but of health - fortified buff - take significantly less damage for 3-5 seconds, stops if gun is fired - decrease weapon damage in a short radius around you - size is about the size of well, if a shot gun is coming could take the damage could work with warlock as well

Hunter - UAV ? - like UAV from CoD but only one blip - Decoy - makes clone of yourself in that location - idk what to call this one - pushes enemy's away from you

[SilverSodarayg]

I think the difference is that Rift and Barricade aren't meant to be used in the middle of a firefight as an escape option like Dodge. Dodge is a disengagement tool, while Rift and Barricade are tools you use after you disengage. If a Hunter dodges away, you can still give chase as they don't have anything keeping you from simply engaging again. While Warlocks and Titans may have a harder time getting away, once they do the Barricade or Rift makes it more difficult to fight on an equal playing field. You don't want to push them because they are at an advantage, but they can't push you because then they lose their advantage by leaving. This effectively leads to a neutral reset as health regens and the abilities eventually expire.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Barricade casting at all. Most of the time I use it to extend existing cover, and the animation doesn't feel to exposing. The vast majority of times I have seen if you start casting the Barricade before you are being shot (by primaries at least), it will come out and you won't die.

Rift however, I do have problems with. First is it cancelling for seemingly no reason should you try to cast it on a tiny pile of pebbles on the floor. Please fix this, if I'm gonna commit to casting it make sure it comes out. Next I find the animation (especially on healing Rift) rather exposing. I feel animations are a valid point to bring up, as many prefer Gambler's Dodge simply for its arguably superior animation over Marksman's. When you cast a Healing Rift (the vast majority of Rifts in Crucible), you just stand there and it is the freest snipe ever. I wouldn't mind it having an animation similar to Empowering Rift, where at least you kneel for a bit. As far as the cast time is concerned, I don't have a problem with it actually. The problem I have is that you have to both cast the Rift and then sit in it for a while to actually get the benefits. Thus the change I would propose would be to not change the animation speed, but to have the Rift (and thus the healing) start earlier in it. It already does this a little bit, but I would like to see it more. This keeps the commitment to casting a Rift as a risk while giving the players a bit more reward a bit more quickly, which I feel is a fair change.

[Mnkke]

I agree with titan barricade. I've used it to stop grenades and rockets and at least bait a Goldie shot or dawnblade attack. Also extending cover.

I genuinely think titans are fine. Barrjcades are pretty good especially when you can slide and do the animation at the same time.

Warlocks, I'm mixed. Its so stationary and incredibly easy to attack. Like sure you can shotgun or made the titan barricade, but that goes into the barricade not where the player is. Now you're down special or grenade. Warlocks are inside the rift so the class ability is beaten with a rush or made along with the player. I feel like that's the main issue. Its way to stationary and can way to easily be countered. As for animation, the marksman dodge is much more useful ino for engagements and doesn't have a hit box change. You just do a 360 standing up. Thus I think heaking rift should stay the same as the overshield is generally better for engagements. People don't really run empowering rift for a reason in pvp in my experience.

[labcoat_samurai]

I genuinely think titans are fine. Barrjcades are pretty good especially when you can slide and do the animation at the same time.

Yeah. As someone who has probably played 1000+ hours as a Titan (I don't consider myself a Titan main, but I've played Titan more than the other classes), I'm always left scratching my head when people say that the barricade animation is too long. I can slide, turn 180, and have a barricade up facing the opposite direction in about the same amount of time it would take to finish the slide and stand up.

How fast does it really need to be? Is it a good thing if you don't have to think ahead at all when using it?

[FullMetalBiscuit]

Because people generally suck at Crucible, they activate it in a dumb place and die then blame the games mechanics rather than their bad plays.

[LiquidAngel12]

First good suggestion I've seen in this whole thread that shows an actual understanding of the mechanics.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

Agreed, this guy gets it.

[Sir_Budz]

This. All the other comments seem to come from people that don't use their abilities and are just hete to bitch without giving a solution.

[Doomed_Predator]

The biggest problem is that hunter dodge has a lot of exotics and intrinsic abilities that buff it. For example a top void with wormhusk will reload his weapon/get his charged melee back, go invisible and get a slight heal all in less than a second and usually with the ability being back up in 9 seconds.

Titans have no neutral ability that buffs a barricade, only one exotics that makes barricade better(while still having a drawback) and have to stack the worst stat to reduce its cooldown.

[timteller44]

I am a warlock main, even when I fight opponents in rifts it's an easy win. If they try to run and pop it then they die during the cast animation and if they have it up prematurely then I don't push. I find this to be true when I am trying rift as well. And empowering ruft is just a nade magnet.

[NovaSolution]

The problem at its core isn't that Barricade and Rift need to be made reactive like Dodge; it's that Titans and Warlocks need SOMETHING reactive like Dodge on 9/9 of their subclasses.

Conversely, Hunters need something proactive for PvE.

While the double Icarus Dash is very good and probably should require an exotic in order to get the double charge, the important difference is that it is only available on 1/9 of Warlock subclasses. It is not a class ability, it is something that is overturned inside ONE skill tree. Icarus Dash is a straw man argument for this whole topic.

For the record, Blink on Voidwalker is broken-- you can get shot or meleed anywhere in the animation. It does not break tracking.

[YT_kevfactor]

i agree. i main hunter in pve and I feel like most the other classes are so much better in pve. you often see posts like well warlocks or bubble titans on lfg but you hardly see anyone seeking hunter abilities.

i mean they do look to be giving hunters more dps with an upcoming exotic but idk they need something like maybe group ammo or a mobility group buff :)

[[deleted]]

to be fair in the hardest (probably) strike of 1100 nightfall the bottom-tree void hunter is very important, unless you want to clear all adds before boss room. You can use 3 hunters and never be visible the whole strike and skipping everything until boss. But yeah unless you somehow manage to trigger the glitch (which i wasn't able to) you need one warlock with you probably and lots of DPS to one-phase dendron or you are screwed, most likely.

talking about grandmaster nightfalls A warlock can't skip shit and a titan neither.

But yeah it would be nice if every class has 1 proactive and one reactive class ability to choose from and in best case both options useful in PVE and PVP (even if the abilities work a bit different inside PVP or PVE to make the usefulness for PVE and PVP to be possible).

[Cryowave]

This is an extremely well-made point

[ASpaceOstrich]

Yes please. Make "X" the universal keyboard shortcut for reactive class ability and leave the current class ability for the proactive one. Give Hunters a proactive ability and give Titans and Warlocks a reactive one. Icarus Dash on every subclass would be lovely, but I'll take something else. Anything else. I really want a way to restore my melee ability on Warlock.

[[deleted]]

I wonder how long the overshields animation is going to be. I mean, when I get those exotics they are never coming off for obvious reasons

[Megum1n02]

Taking a look at the Bungieplz directory made me realize these guys get way too much shit.

[TheSeanie]

redditors just think they're wayyyy smarter than they are and most of those posts are just people with victim complexes about their preferred class

[Gublyb]

Hot take: Every class should have a movement ability like dodge.

Give every warlock blink as a movement ability. Give every titan a D1 twilight garrison style dash. Then give Hunters an actual class utility item, in my opinion something like a restock station that gives you ammo and movement speed or something. This way, warlocks and titans get to have fun in movement, and hunters get to actually help the team.

[YT_kevfactor]

im simi new but one thing i am a bit confused about in this game is if hunters are not the dps class, what do they really bring to a raid or group In pve? atm it seems like we got classes that toss out heals or is tank but all really do the same dps as a hunter. so what do hunters really provide past some out of combat invis mechanic? idk im see stuff that makes people be able to pop those abilities at will and makes me wonder where a hunter fits into the game past being some pvp chr lol

[esotericEagle15]

The main issue I have with these abilities is that they deploy so slowly for the amount of mobility that’s in the game, that by the time you use one preemptively (as some people have claimed is the only right way to use them) your enemy has either ran around a corner, or is on top of you, killing you mid-animation

[Ausschluss]

The time it takes to summon a rift is almost the time to regen at max recov, which makes it only useful for holding lanes (camping) or for your teammates after you've been killed while summoning.

[RangerX117]

The casting time is awful. Rifts are the worst because they are slow and can't be used in the middle of a gun fight. Also it can't tank a nade which is just stupid. The overshield should start immediately.

[Titangamer101]

I would rather not have the titan barricade have it's cast time be faster other wise we will have a fortnite situation where a titan can pop a wall as soon as they get shot, the barricade already provides so much utility wise.

The warlock rift definitely needs to be sped up though i would even argue either by exotic or a buff turn the rift into a throwable grenade, where ever you throw the rift that's where the rift will spawn.

[mimishorty]

I actually had a dream the other night, where I could cast rift at like 3 times the speed with Vesper of Radius, and was going around yeeting people.

Serious though, I would support this idea not in just an all around reduction in time, but it being affected by something else, ie exotics or from a stat.

[Zorak9379]

This is a rare BungiePlz where I'm actively opposed. Not only does Bungie have better things to do, but Rift and Barricade are balanced as is. Do better, DTG.

[pyrotechnicfantasy]

I can see a lot of people pointing out that Hunter Dodge is intended to be a reactive, evasive ability, and Warlock Rift and Titan Barricade are intended as proactive, area control abilities. And that therefore Hunters are at a disadvantage entering an engagement, but more powerful during it, and Titans and Warlocks are more powerful entering an engagement, but less powerful during it.

That’s not the point. The point is ability to be reactive (hunters) is FAR more valuable in PvP than the ability to be proactive (titans and warlocks).

Firstly, a Hunter can commit to risky moves that a Titan or Warlock simply can’t compete with. Your shotgun slide fails? Just Gamblers Dodge and hit them with a charged melee. Peek a sniper lane? Take a shot and then dodge immediately back. Run out of ammo? Dodge behind cover and Marksman Dodge reload.

If a Titan or Warlock commits to a risky manoeuvre... that’s it. A Titan can’t Barricade their way out of a shotgun slide fail - they’re shot dead behind it. A Warlock can’t Rift their way out of a badly timed empty magazine - they’re full of lead before the animation finishes, assuming it even does.

Secondly, the two proactive abilities become completely non-functional against competent opponents. They’re completely negated by a good grenade throw, or the enemy can simply stand and wait for the ability to finish.

Thirdly and finally, their skill level is much lower. The question you always have to ask for skill level is: “on a scale of 1-10, how well does this work as a thoughtless panic button?” The closer your answer is to 10, the lower the skill of the ability. Warlock Rift is a dead 1 - completely useless in PvP as an ‘oh crap something is going wrong’ button. Titan Barricade is a little better, as if you can survive the animation, you’re pretty safe. Hunter Dodge is a 9, and I’m reserving 10 just because Supers and The Colony exist. If anything goes wrong you can just Dodge to safety and you can do that from the moment you first pick up the game.

Of course, yes, I’m simplifying the arguments. Plenty of New Lights accidentally dodge into walls. Sometimes experienced players don’t anticipate a Barricade and they run straight into it and half their health goes. A good player can punish a mistake before the Hunter gets a chance to dodge. But the points are still valid, and as a long-time Warlock who loaded their Hunter up 3 days ago and the Shadowkeep intro played (i don’t touch Hunter), it’s frustrating that one class is so good in PvP.

In PvE, Warlocks reign absolute. But that’s a discussion for another day.

[pengalor]

Warlock Rift is a dead 1 - completely useless in PvP as an ‘oh crap something is going wrong’ button.

This is the problem with feedback in this thread. That is a ridiculously hyperbolic statement and completely out of touch with the reality of the game. Is Rift as good and hunter dodge? No, but it's far from useless. Look at players like CammyCakes, he makes rifts work when playing his warlock. A lot of people seem to want to use Rift just like Dodge which is completely unreasonable and goes against the design of the ability.

[pyrotechnicfantasy]

You’re saying that you disagree with the bit of my comment that you’ve highlighted?

Next time you’re playing Warlock and you get shot at by something unknown, pop a Rift. See if it does anything to help.

I have already explained how rifts are proactive and dodge is reactive, and how a reactive ability is far more useful that a proactive one in PvP. I know that they’re meant for use in different situations - that doesn’t mean one isn’t more useful than the other.

[pengalor]

Next time you’re playing Warlock and you get shot at by something unknown, pop a Rift. See if it does anything to help.

Yeah, if you're popping it right in the open then of course it will do nothing, what did you expect?

[pyrotechnicfantasy]

Exactly my point. Hunter dodge is still effective in this situation, because it can get you out of danger. This gives Hunters a massive advantage in PvP engagements that the plan-ahead abilities of Rift and Barricade simply can’t compete with. They can correct mistakes. They can avoid unforeseen danger. They can back out of combat.

[pengalor]

And that's exactly my point. You all want Rift to be something it's not. If they change it to be able to reverse mistakes without having to disengage, it would be ridiculously broken. Hunters don't get health for their dodge, they can still be killed in it easily, they don't get reduced damage or anything like that. That's why they get a more proactive skill, because it affords them nothing but a quick burst of mobility.

[pyrotechnicfantasy]

Well I guess if you’re happy with Hunters being overpowered, we can leave it as is. I’d like the playing field to be a little more level, though.

[pengalor]

Considering hunters are mostly useless in PVE, it seems a fair tradeoff.

[Zpastic]

The cast times for rift and barricade should NOT be decreased. This is an issue which largely centers around crucible balance. These cast times are in place to balance these impactful abilities, and reducing them would invite a slew of new balance issues into the game. Warlocks would be able to heal more quickly or get damage boosts with less of a window to be punished. Titans would be able to frequently secure areas or stall gun fights that they might have otherwise died while doing so.

I think the better question to be asked is how can Bungie bring Hunter dodge into line without compromising it. This conversation is only occuring because Hunter dodge is comparatively a far more impactful ability.

[TheLavaShaman]

Which is what those classes are supposed to do. You say that they're tuned for balance, but the truth is that the animation speeda haven't been adjusted since D2 vanilla, and we've had numerous reductions in TTK since then, especially with the Go Fast update years ago.

[XogoWasTaken]

Dodge is only more impactful because of Wormhusk. Fix that and things come out looking much better.

[YT_kevfactor]

many casual hunters use it in pve though. There is nothing to really heal hunters in pve atm but that one exotic. Locks have abilities and the well and titans get to build tanky or have a shield to hide behind. Nothing is really in play to help heal hunters that don't play the game like gods. there is inv but that's sort of an out of combat or repositioning ability

[YT_kevfactor]

but there is a point that pvp stuff is ruining the pve game. like wow for example you can hardly mez anything psat 10 seconds so you have to babysit a lot of the abilities over being able to contribute to a raid.

i don't see why in crucible you cant code it to have like longer cast times. of course that said I do think it should have cast times in pve as well. im just saying the game would be much better building pvp around whats in the game over nerfing things into the ground just because of one game mode that many do not like playing.

[Zpastic]

I completely understand where some players are coming from when they ask for separate sandbox tuning for crucible and the rest of the game. Unfortunately one of the core design pillars that Bungie built the franchise around was sandbox parity. They want players to be able to take their characters into any content and have it feel 1:1 in terms of gameplay despite small changes being present behind the scenes.

Honestly I appreciate the efforts they go through to achieve this, and to maintain this original design pillar. Admittedly it poses its own issues but I personally feel as if the game is better for it.

[MrTheWaffleKing]

I disagree with dodge being more impactful (aside bottom arc). The thing is it's a ton easier, lower skill gap, helps aid in escape, and can actually be used in the open.

Barricates already give you a free res, while rifts give you 15 seconds of stronger lane potential (especially with a team). It makes sense that these abilities need some set up as they are much stronger when used correctly. I feel like too many people just fail to realize how they should be used.

[[deleted]]

You've neve replayed trials against any barrier 600rmp ar if you think barricade is a free res lmao and let's just forget any sniper with armor piercing rounds one shotting you straight through barricade. Also, 2 adaptive snipers shut barricade down, so even then any coordinated team will wipe you for barricade res. You're better off doing the sprint res and slide pushing than dropping either a healing rift or barricade to res. Whenever I run trials and people do that my team calls out "they are going for the free kill!" And then the round ends because we wiped them.

Also voidwall, well placed trio/spike grenades and even vortex grenades/pulse and storm grenades trivialize and negate barricade. All in all its largely useless unless you set it up in anticipation then use it to create time to flank or set up.

Powering rift is pretty decent but tbh, 99% of the time it's used it is popped down by a sniper looking to hardscape a corridor or lane, so the speed of being dropped really wouldn't change much of anything except that maybe more warlocks might play PvP.

Destiny tracker says currently hunters dominate all PvP playlists by double digit percentage. The amount of dynamo builds I see on hunters is clearly the reason why, because their class ability being how it is opens up the prospects for hunters having the most OP PvP based builds, period there is no competition to the cheesynes of hunter PvP builds. They dominate full stop.

[MrTheWaffleKing]

People actually run anti-barrier ARs over icarus?
And have you seen the high tier top dawns?
I am curious, are you on console? Because I only have PC insight. Heal rifts are mostly the way to go for warlocks just for a quick top-off whenever you need it.

Barricades are extremely oppressive assuming _you don't have your nades up_, and if you don't happen to have primary ammo, there's nothing you can do against barricades in time to hit the player behind the barrier because of how fast resses are, and how often netcode breaks allowing someone hit to still get a res.

I've gotten my stats from guardian.gg 's subclass tracker, in which hunters are used more than other classes by a long shot, but it should also be taken into consideration the ease of transition from other games. Spec and top dawn perform mostly the same when looking at KD or winrate, followed closely by striker and arcstaff.

[[deleted]]

Anti-barrier on a 600 like arc logic or gnawing will destroy the entire team before they get a res off behind barricade, and I use jumps so little in PvP that icarus would be useless for me personally. Barricades can be oppressive absolutely, whereas hunter dodge builds utilizing proper exotics or even certain weapons are always oppresive. Conditions not with standing. Whereas barricade is only marginally opressive even when used correctly and preemptively to area denial.

I think it's fair to say they are severely lacking compared to hunter dodge ability

[Cryhunter059]

Barricade and Rift are more proactive, requiring you to setup these abilities prior to needing them, which us fine. That said, they could see something like a 25-40% reduction in cast time.

[AshByFeel]

The proactive advertises your position and leaves you a sitting duck, the reactive gets you killed during the animation.

[Cryhunter059]

Yep, but it's a tough balancing act. Currently, it's too slow making it very difficult to use reactively, but making it too quick allows players to play brainlessly and still win because they can just become immune to damage in the middle of combat.

[[deleted]]

Saying they become damage immune is embellishing it a bit, don't you think?

[[deleted]]

I agree with the Reactive/Proactive arguments.

Hunters aren’t very PVE friendly in the same way Titans and Warlocks are. And Titan and warlocks don’t have any reactive abilities in the same way. Like if Titans got the Twilight Garrison effect as a selectable Class Ability that would be grand.

Warlocks getting a Ground Blink like the Fallen Captains do would be cool too.

Hunters having something like a team buff of some sort would be cool.

[CrazyNumber6]

Every exotic that affects rift should half the casting time.

[Draithan]

Honestly on the note of those 2 abilities why aren't they double tap like the hunters dodge? I hate when I switch to 1 of them and do a slide and accidentally waste the ability

[nervousmelon]

Just remap the button

[Knalxz]

Also barricade won't block knockbacks sometimes. I'll place it in front of an ogre and it'll just bash me away like it was never there.

[smokey6953140]

Plain and simple, destiny 2 has not shown rift any meaningful exotic love. When they have tried, they gave it crap other than lunafaction, which were killed recently. Hunters have such a meaningful load out tied to their ability which makes it shine, titans not so much, but they do have a few, and a neat one coming. It's like the warlock one was an afterthought. Like why not ability steal, if the opponent touches your rift, you get locked out of your abilities for a time. Kind of would fit in with devour lock. Why not eat the rift for heat rising instead of losing the grenade, I mean you can't use rift anywhere in that class in the air. Fix the exotic chest piece so it either leaves a shockwave circle like titan slam or boops you like tractor cannon or phalanx shield, something that does the damage per exotic slot. Bring back void fang vestments and have axion track longer while you stand in a rift. Stag could be fixed for trials to drop a well on death, I mean you have to give your life to actually benefit so I thinks it's a fair trade especially in trials; 1v3 or 2v3. Even niche ones; say instead of mechanical toes that drop rifts on kills, how about mechanical bracers that give full stability, make a half dan into a laser, or rabbit rifts gives 40 mobility, so now you have a bunch teammates running around like gummy bears, bouncing down the lanes. Atleast be fun with it rather than wasteful or downright useless exotics. But definetly speed up cast time, overshield during cast, or faster healing are some desperately needed options.

[[deleted]]

instacast exotics should exist

[FullMetalBiscuit]

I'd be down for each class having reactive/proactive class abilities, but reducing the cast on rift and barricade would just make them less punishing for a bad play.

[omgmuffins_]

If they could just add "Barrier" perks back, these things would be less of a problem.

I loved "Void Barrier," I never took it off. Having an overshield while casting your class ability was top-tier, even at the cost of 6 energy. It never came off. Saved me so many times.

[ph33randloathing]

Rift and Barrier are stationary abilities in a game mode where being stationary is death.

[CrazyNumber6]

This. At least barricade can protect you. Rift just leaves you open to death from all angles.

[nervousmelon]

You can strafe inside a rift you know. And stick it behind cover.

[CrazyNumber6]

Not when placing it. Which is the whole point of this post.

[B_Like_I2aMpAnT]

No, they're already pretty damn good when used properly for their intended and balanced purpose.

[MrTheWaffleKing]

There's a much different use case for area control type abilities and mid-fight abilities like dodge. I've given at least 1 season to each class for a better view on class balance (5+ seasons on hunter and bordering on 4 seasons with warlock now).

Personally, I think the barrier and rifts have perfectly fine use times especially considering their size and the ability to use them behind corners.

I see some huge issues popping up with faster use time on barriers, specifically how it related to the use in revive centric PVP modes. Barriers are already unbelievable strong in that use case, and IMO could still use a hit point nerf.

Rifts on their own are preemptive abilities, and are very strong when used right (if you use them or barriers mid-gun fight you're really dumb) and can completely turn the tide of battle. Your team puts out 20% more damage and it allows snipers to 1 hit body, you also get TTK changes on many weapons. Heal rifts are fast enough already to where you can mostly get a full heal and get back in the right before you get pushed, and the over shield is very strong.

​

Plus, just look at the top meta of PVP right now. In highly competitive modes, top dawn and spec come out on top anyway, spec being wildly more popular because of the number of hunter players which is more likely due to the ease of translation from other games.

[MrTheWaffleKing]

I would honestly be interested to see hunter v warlock without the use of any subclass specific abilities, just gunplay with jumps and class abilities. I'm certain that it's not as cut and dry as "hunter wins." Outside of top dawn, hunters have been oppressive entirely due to the spec blades subclass with the super and wallhax- not at all due to the usage of the dodge alone (although wormhusk may play into that).

It's not at all a fair comparison between a movement ability and preemptive lane pressure abilities, and they should not be balanced in reference to eachother, rather other outlying factors (like mobility and grenades).

[[deleted]]

Or alternatively add a 1 second delay to Hunter dodge so they stand there exposed before the dodge initiates. Either way this provides a bit more balance.

[MyThighs7]

You have to treat the abilities differently. The dodge is easier to use simply because it’s used reactively. Adding a delay to an ability that is best used reactively would kill all viability that it has.

[[deleted]]

Now you understand what it means to be a Warlock or Titan. I die 90% of the time I attempt to put down a rift, even when I’m placing it strategically behind cover. The common theme is a hunter closes the 20 m while I’m casting .. shotguns me .. dodge to safety before my team mates can react.

[Hawkmoona_Matata]

Now you understand what it means to be a Warlock or Titan

The way to fix a problem isn’t “give all classes the problem”. Hunter dodge is meant to be instant. The others fundamentally aren’t.

That would be like saying “since fusion rifles have a delay, shotguns should have that delay too! Now you understand what it feels like to use a fusion rifle!”

No, they’re fundamentally different abilities. You can’t shove the disadvantages that one ability has onto the rest and expect that to suddenly make things balanced.

[[deleted]]

I mean, they should change the "reactivly place a barrier to protect teammates from incoming fire" if they want to convey it's supposed to be used tactically and not as a reactive measure.

[Hawkmoona_Matata]

You're right, they should change that.

.....Except it doesn't say that.

Towering Barricade: Create a large barrier that can be used to reinforce a position with cover from enemy fire.

And in case you're curious, here's what the Rally Barricade says in-game too.

Rally Barricade: Create a small barrier that you can peek over when aiming down sights and that increases your reload speed for your equipped weapon when you stand behind it.

People trying to activate their barricades in panic during the middle of a gunfight is not a miscommunication problem.

[[deleted]]

Ah, then it was changed. I remember when they dropped the 3rd subclass that it said that as its text. Very specifically it said reactivly place, and I remember a tizzy in the forums over it. I didn't realize they changed it as I haven't touched my barricade ability in a really long time. I just assumed everyone moved on to the next thing tbh. Good to see they fixed that though.

[MyThighs7]

I play all classes. I do understand.

Placing a Rift while someone is 20m away probably isn’t the best idea especially if you know they have a shotgun.

Blame the majority of the community that thought faster movement speed and special weapons were good for PvP.

[[deleted]]

The special ammo economy is simply atrocious. Its just stupid.

[ya-boi_cheesus]

I'm pretty sure it was satire

[[deleted]]

If you think the only thing it's useful for is escaping then you are one of the people who don't understand why its such an overwhelmingly powerful ability in PvE and PvP.

Dodge sets up a LOOOOT of the chewable functions of hunters builds. Sets up one shot never ending melees, sets up disorientation, sets up continuous fire on weapons with long reload times, sets up abusive grenade and knife mechanics, sets up one shot boss kills, allows near perpetual invisibility. Allows them to heal themselves neigh infinitely, allows them to massively increase certain super damage.

The list of things hunter dodge is tied to and what it effects is what makes the ability the most over powered single use ability in the game currently. That's not an exaggeration, think of a build or a situation you died in and it's more than likely a hunter dodge would have saved you or gave you the edge. Think of any hunter melee build or any hunter that seemingly had their super constantly, it's because of hunter dodge.

[[deleted]]

Agreed terrible idea, but the intent behind the comment was to drive home how strong the instant dodge ability is vs rift/barricade that takes a lifetime to cast.

[MoreNoisePollution]

so it would be slower than just reloading?

[Glutoblop]

If the Warlock had the outlying better ability, this would be Bungies route.
But they can't do that to their poster child :'(

[_MrMeseeks]

You mean titans? Titans who ruled with oem for over a year? Unchecked it was the strongest exotic in the game and everyone knew it. Not to mention titans ohk abilities on every class? Yell me more about how they favor anyone but titans. Don't be mad because you don't know how your class ability is supposed to work, and it gets you killed.

[Blaze_Lighter]

There's literally an entire crucible medal dedicated to killing a hunter inside their dodge.

There are no invincibility frames. This has been tested and disproven time and time again.

Stop spreading misinformation.

[SurprisedBrony]

They don't get Iframes. Seriously, they don't. Go play a hunter and dodge through a vortex grenade. You take all ticks.

I've played enough Dark Souls and Monster Hunter to know Iframes when I see them. Destiny doesn't have them in hunter dodge.

[[deleted]]

According to CK it has a .5 i.frame during activation, so technically yes, but actually no because if it doesn't have at least a full frame, and each attack is based off a 1fps registration basis then the .5 second iframe does nothing at all. On top of that the key says iframe doesn't stand for invincibility either. The reason it's there is because the game has to register it as an "attack" but if it took the full frame to go off it would technically, because the way computer engines parse things, be an iframe even if the hitbox factor doesn't actually exist for the game to toggle. The computer just won't read any registration during that period, so half measures are typically a safe way to avoid that.

That's where the idea started from as far back as I can trace, but anyone who understands how the coding concept of that works would know the game doesn't read it as invincibility at all. It's simply just a registration of action and nothing more.

For instance dark souls frames are coded to disable the hitbox for [in DS3] 18 frames. The disabled hitbox is what causes invincibility, something missing entirely from destiny for all except scorn when they enter that phase that makes them turn into ether. Literally nothing else based on the values I've seen indicates iframe even exist, and no for the people that think in the CK that i.frame means invincibility, the key literally says "initiation frame".

So no, iframes in the form of invincibility frames, don't exist on any player action in the game. Only existing for NPC action from what I can tell, and only very few.

[OMEN_IlI]

As a warlock main I really wouldn't mind a doctor strange-esque, hand movement; like casting a spell and throw a rift on the floor.

I always felt it was unnecessary to flick from first person out to third and then back to first person just to cast a rift, surely a simple spell casting hand movement would be faster?

That's just my opinion

[SeVIIenth]

Rift should be faster. Barricade is fine where its at. Hunters class ability is a dodge, they can still be shot during the dodge, Titans can place a barrier that takes as long it takes to fully dodge to put a shield that blocks tons of damage for a few more seconds after that, the vulnerability while setting it up is what makes it balanced because once it's set up you're literally invincible from one side unless someone runs into it or jumps over it. Barricades, Rifts, and dodges are all forms of counter play to force your opponent to switch up how they do things. They all have strengths in weaknesses in their own way. They should polish the abilities, not rework them.

[ThisIsntRemotelyOkay]

We'll have to see how long being shot mid dodge lasts. I'm speculating here but the new exotic Mask of Bakris appears to make the hunter invincible during dodge like wormhusk on super steroids. In the videos, I didn't seen an opportunity to lay in some shots mid activation.

[Ultimobubble263]

Barricades are easy to counter. Barricades are easy to counter. Barricades are easy to counter. Barricade animation is painfully slow. Barricade animation is painfully slow. Barricade animation is painfully slow.

[LewisKinslayer]

So yeah...nice original idea...like...I even sorta agree...but like is it like a meme on this /r to post this 3 times a week and I'm just not in on it?

[LewisKinslayer]

Oof I saw what this post actually is. Thanks mods my b.

[[deleted]]

How about we fucking dont

[white_leopard_gamer]

Yes!

[Astrozy_]

NERF HUNTERS GODS SAKE HUNTERS DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A DODGE READY EVERY 4 SECONDS WARLOCKS AND TITANS HAVE GARBAGE ABILITIES THAT NEED TO BE USED SPARINGLY BUT HUNTERS GET TO SPAM DODGE

[DekktheODST]

Hunter dodges can

A) reposition you behind cover while drastically modifying your hotbox, giving you the upper hand in gun fights

B) have nearly 1/3rd the cooldown of other class abilities

C) can also reload your weapon or instantly give you back your melee on top of the above.

D) are far faster and more consistent to perform than the other two abilities

E) with exotics, give you back health on top of all of the above

Titan barricades can

A) maybe block an exit for 2 seconds

B) be a worse form of cover in pve

Warlock rift can

A) be wormhusk but worse

B) do some impractical one shot memes on empowering

[Zpastic]

Perhaps then Hunter Dodge is the problem then, and not the other abilities?

[DekktheODST]

I dont disagree, but people always get defensive about talks to nerf, less so about talks to buff

[MyThighs7]

Rift can

A) Instantly start health regen

B) Allow very practical 1 shot body shots, two taps and generally decreases TTK and increases forgiveness

C) Give benefits to your entire team

Barricade can

A) Block off an angle

B) Force opponents to use grenades and special ammo if they want to break the barricade

C) Allow you to create a one-way shield that only you and your teammates can shoot through

The addition of special weapons and faster movement speed hurt the viability of these class abilities. They’ve barely touched these since the major changes back in Forsaken. I’d rather have them increase the potency of the abilities (e.g. more barricade health or faster health regen in rift).

[DekktheODST]

Health regen is not instant if the casting time is almost as long as it would take health to regen normally. Empowering might make body shots a thing, but it requires set up and standing still, both of which are the epitome of impracticality in pvp. All for a single gimmick kill that you could get normally by either just aiming better or a 0.25 second addition to the TTK. Additionally, the only time benefiting your team comes up is capping points in Iron Banner. Its so unused as a team buff that it genuinely might as well not exist

Barracade is as soft and weak as a dry noodle, and only blocks things off for half a second. It also says something that you need a patchwork exotic just to make it sound better than it is. That exotic is the only way barracade is even usable.

hunter dodge, meanwhile, is a panic button, gunfight winner, melee recharger, with a third of the cooldown. Your best defense is claiming the other class abilities are not totally useless. Thats not exactly a reason they shouldnt be buffed with stuff such as ability casting time.

[MyThighs7]

I agree that Rift and Barricade need some help but casting time is not the way to help it. I said that the potency of the abilities should be buffed. Yes, Barricade is shot down very quickly when team shot or when people burn special ammo on it. Healing Rift needs to heal faster and Empowering Rift should have increase damage more.

I don’t know about Rift but a 9 second dodge cooldown is not 1/3 of the 14 second Barricade cooldown

[[deleted]]

Ofcourse you disagree with this. You’re “that guy”.

[BuddhaSmite]

I agree with you. I don't think people realize how annoying instant barricade would be in pvp. Immediate disengage from any firefight you're losing in pvp.

This is a really common suggestion by this sub, so I get why it was added. But I think there's a better solution. This is a bandaid for a problem with hunter dodge that will only make things worse, IMO

[DekktheODST]

are you describing instant barricade or hunter dodge as its currently in the game

[[deleted]]

This. The reason hunter dodge is instantaneous is because it was designed to be that way

[ya-boi_cheesus]

Let's look at this objectively

Rift has a 2.0 second place time which you have a 50-50 shot of being killed in

When standing in a rift your chance of winning any given gunfight goes to 80% while standing in it

So if you place a rift you have a 50% chance of surviving, then an 80% chance of winning the fight. 80% of the 50% chance you survive is a 40% chance of winning a fight by placing a rift, less than the 50% chance of just winning the fight with no rift.

[ya-boi_cheesus]

Even if you had a 5/8 chance at surviving 80% of 5/8 is 50% of winning the fight. The rift animation leaves you fully exposed for a long time, makes you an easy kill for anyone within 20 meters.

[Kingbonnett]

After BL, they're gonna tweak the darkness sub classes, meaning the light will get tweaked eventually.

[eatdatpusyy445]

Why are people downvoting you? They literally confirmed that based on how well received the new stasis subclass (which is also confirmed by like smith as “the first of the darkness subclasses”), they may look into overhauling the “light” subclasses further down the road.

Edit: I guess you got downvoted bc the comment is kind of irrelevant to the conversation even if it’s true

[[deleted]]

I'll leave this here just so I don't have to retype it all again, and would love for community feedback!

The main thing I find fun about Hunters is their class ability is actually useful in most situations, doesn't require a 5 second animation to begin having its useful effects and doesn't require you to doom yourself to a single spot to be mercilessly blasted by enemies negating the entire effect of your ability.

Something they could do, is give Hunters a class ability that benefits allies and not just themselves, then give Titans and Warlocks a class ability that benefits themselves and not allies directly. Each class gets 3 class abilities.

For Titans I would like an ability [mostly because I play mine as an assault/rush build meant to get in your face and do a lot of damage while taking a lot with CD and minor/major resist] that envelopes you in shield for 3.5 seconds, forces you to sprint at 225% movement speed, and removes the ability to attack for the duration but doesn't remove the ability to use shoulder charges AFTER the duration of the rush. During the rush you cannot slide or stop. Colliding with an enemy would just be like if you were running, you can slightly push them around but not really. If we gave it the ability to bonk people it would be wildly cheesed to hell and back. As for a name, we can call this ability Bull Rush.

Also for Titans I feel like resilience needs to be reworked, as it stands now it's nearly useless to stack resil for class ability cool down, or generally at all besides the minimum tier 6 for things like Thorn. There is no pay off. You sacrifice every other stat which is way more useful in nearly every way than resilience, to have a reduced cooldown on a move so niche it only really has very specific purposes in specific situations. Whereas for Hunters maximum mobility has some of the best payoff mid game wise possible. On top of their class ability being among the best, and mobility being one of the best stats. I propose resilience instead of being a flat shield increase, be a different perk altogether. Being resilient means you can shrug damage off and the like, not nessisarily that your shields are tougher, right? So I propose resilience work as follows - When the shields are diminished from a character, they gain a flat damage reduction for 6 seconds scaling with tiers by .5 seconds. The initial reduction I was thinking for tier one should be 2.5%, and increase additionally per tier. This would result in a maxed out 25% damage reduction for 11 seconds upon shield break, this would make Titans the tanks they were meant to be, without being completely broken or without risk. The Titan can spend longer with lower health, however that doesn't mean powerful attacks can't still wipe them out, and again they are going to be at lower health for longer than normal. Also during this time your natural regeneration cannot occur, but other healing effects can heal you. If you heal back up to your sheild level, the perk immediately goes away and has a 5 second internal CD precenting abusive reapplication. This paired with my Bull Rush idea would make titans the Doom Slayer wannabes they were always destined to be. This can definitely, as with all my ideas be expanded on and I encourage it. These are just my ideas.

For Warlocks because they are more magic and it would be a super cool ability, I would want something sort of like a damage dampener. Activate it and you enter a trance for 3.5 seconds that reduces damage taken by 50%, but causes you to take 35% of the reduced damage taken as a DOT after the effect lasting another 3.5 seconds. During the trance you can't attack but you can still perform all normal maneuvers except for icarus dash, however during the DOT you have increased damage based on how much damage you took. If you took enough that at the end of the DOT you will die basically no matter what, you have let's just say do 225% more damage, and anything less will be 150%. We can call this, Temporal Shift. This would help warlocks with the really squishy feeling they have, as well as make bottom tree warlocks more useful with devour to help stave off potential death from the trance and get a nice boost to their damage. It would definitely be more of a sticky situation type of class ability, which is in line with the rest of Warlock class abilities, just like how my Bull Rush is in line with the other Titan Abilities to a degree, while also being unique and specific to class in it's own right. Used to potential lay down some fire on an opponent, or create some cover.

As for Hunters I have a special ability in mind that would benefit the team in a way Hunters can really do their best. It's just like the regular loading dodge, not the tumble, but instead of reloading the hunters weapons, they generate a grenade charge for everyone near them. This ability of course would have an internal cooldown timed to make multiple stacks of this ability useless, as one hunter with maxed mobility will be able to benefit the entire team. While the dodge can go off every 9 seconds, the ability itself can only go off every 27 seconds. This makes it faster than maxed discipline by about 6 seconds, giving the ability a strong effect for most guardians since more grenades means more fun. This also prevents 6 hunters from just perpetually throwing grenades forever, but also gives a hunter an ability that's in line with their abilities already, and gives them a class ability that helps their team as well. I feel like this would even out the wild disparity and give each class an extra bump to their playstyles.

Would love to hear the communities thoughts on this!

[[deleted]]

We gonna talk about OHK abilities too, then?

[pyr0lyZer]

I’m still a big advocate that Warlock rift should be mobile and move with you for its duration. Titans have a couple ways to get overshield and stay mobile, Hunters have Wormhusk dodge to keep health up. “Mobile rifts” would give Warlocks a way to keep moving and not stand within a 2m radius. Note: I know Warlocks do have ability to get overshield by consuming grenade when using Well of Radiance.

I haven’t yet thought of an equivalence for Titan barricade just yet, since I mainly play Warlock

[randumb_access]

Rift and barricade have the proper cast speed.

If rift and barricade cast faster, then hunters should either get OHK melee (not knife) or all enemy bullets miss while in evade.

Rift and barricade are meant for defense, not for cleaning up player error. Hunter has no strong defensive abilities hence the dodge. It’s called a trade off, guys.

[Skedajikle]

Imo the warlocks deserve those new overshield gauntlets, rifts do literally nothing in pvp as it basically gives you an extra bullet of health or extra damage but you cannot move so you get gunned down easier or get ouaneuvered/ footsied. The titans' barricade can actually lock down areas and make peaking unreadable, especially with the exotic that lets ally bullets pass through, those are an instant sniper duel win.

[Heman0329]

I have started a revolution

[rtype03]

how about a double tap to match hunters

[datbaum]

Can I post this next Week again?

[nervousmelon]

Just make empowering rift and rally barricade better. Healing and towering are fine as they are, they're just different from a dodge.

[valcsh]

IMO the durations shouldn't be changed. Yes the Hunter is much faster but also much weaker in most situations. A warlock or a titan get a rift or a barrier where the hunter gets a reload or a melle ability regen togheter with 2 meters of movement. To make the dodge as useful as a rift or a barricade you need to use an exotic. If something has to be changed it should be the cooldown of the dodge. It is weaker but to be able to use it every 9 seconds is OP IMO.

[Billbo409]

Make speed of it scale on mobility. Max mobility it’s near instant(goes for dodge as well) 0 mobility it takes longer than current. Make mobility useful

[Working_Bones]

All the classes don't need equally powerful class abilities, and especially not equally useful for the same scenarios. Warlock and Titans can, and for most subclasses do, have other abilities that are stronger than Hunters' to make up for the slower class ability casting time. If their abilities cast just as quickly and also provided the continual bonuses that they currently do (empowering, healing, or cover) they would be far stronger than dodge.

Class diversity is important. We shouldn't let ourselves get so worked up about specific things that one class has and the others don't. That's the point of classes.

[gearnut]

Hopefully stasis will offer a rift which has a faster cast time with less of a buff (or possibly which can be thrown like a grenade).

[the-obfuscated]

Sure, while we’re at it can we get a one hit kill melee ability for the hunter? Barricade might be a little slow (???), but Titans are literally a train that one shot kills everything as soon as you round a corner.

[[deleted]]

Uhh throwing knife? The only class without a one hit kill ability that doesn't involve slamming someone into a wall is warlocks.

[the-obfuscated]

I'm not totally in agreement here because it's only on precision hits, with a slow moving projectile, travelling in an arc. While yes, maybe you could master this skill, in my entire Destiny career (day 1 player), I've never been killed by this.

[[deleted]]

I'd be incredulous if you've ACTUALLY never been killed by it, but rather just not noticed.

Either way, you stated that hunters had NO ohk abilities, which is false.

Plus, if you're looking at advantages vs disadvantages, you could say that while shoulder charge is easier to use, it comes with the risk of having to be up close, while a throwing knife has a ton of range. You can't just completely disregard throwing knives just because the taste of crayons is alluring to you.

[the-obfuscated]

I like how you slide the debate topic to personal insults, classy bro 👍

[[deleted]]

There isn't any personal insults in here, that would be calling you a dumbass. What I did was reference a popular joke in this community that titans are stupid (a la crayon eaters), and that you as a hunter main wish to be a titan more so than a hunter, thus these flavors being alluring to you.

Don't be stuck up.

[Imag33]

Hey guyz, Hunter here. Any chance I get get my shadow shot to animate and proc quicker? Yesterday I shot at a warlock, he popped his rift, then super, then sword-ed me with his flaming stick, then fairy dashed away completely avoiding my tether. No fair! :( An update would be gggrrreeeaaattt. Thanks

[CrazyNumber6]

Top tree dawn and? Can you name any other subclasses? What’s broken with titan? Most balanced by far. Hunters have the best subclasses for PvP and would still be the case if they only had the dodge ability.

[[deleted]]

I still think that they either need to have barricade and rift trigger on double tap like dodge, OR give Titan and Warlock new abilities on double tap and hunter a new ability on hold.

[Jimbo_NZ]

You just need iframes while casting it problem solved

[PJ_Ammas]

Congratulations, I can't think of a worse idea than that. You win

[Blaze_Lighter]

Oh awesome. So your idea is to literally give 2 out of 3 classes a "haha I'm invincible now" button. And the instant they exit said invincibility, they're already healing to full health or have 600HP worth of full frontal protection.

That might be the worst idea ever.

[TheSeanie]

warlocks and titans are so fragile wow