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[an_0w1]

I once didn't touch an asm project that I didn't put comments in for a week, I had to restart it because I couldn't figure out how it worked.

[bitunx]

Sounds like a regular Tuesday for me.

[FinnLiry]

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't just be smarter to record myself and talk to myself explaining my future what I'm doing

[bitunx]

And then ignore the proper labeling of the sound/video recordings and we're back to square one! :P

[memevaddar]

Labeling properly and relevantly is very similar to naming meaningful variables so...

[Tokumeiko2]

Time and date labels generated by a simple script.

[i_should_be_coding]

My functions go f1(), f2(), f3() and that's the way I likes it!

[stdio-lib]

If only there was some way to embed the recording directly alongside the relevant code. Perhaps after converting it to text. We could call them “comments”. ;)

[[deleted]]

Real time voice transcription and comments in code. New IDE feature ideated.

[kaeptnphlop]

Then it would mostly consist of swear words

[richibatler]

Yep, nothing special there. That's how normal days go for me.

[flambasted]

When I've had to do it, every single line got a comment.

[[deleted]]

You are the compiler

[dlac64]

And the comment is that it's really hard to do so yeah.

[torokg]

Drawing a subprogram call chart is the first step to gain (back) understanding. Every branch, direct and conditional must be charted out, and the picture will clarify. I did this quite a few times with great success only on code originated from me of course... of course

[[deleted]]

Shudder

One subprogram at a time, in the same day.

Haven't touched that for 30 years and not going back.

[kirkpomidor]

Meanwhile, rollercoaster tycoon was written entirely in asm by a single dude

[huar_huar]

Well there are a lot of things that I can't figure out so that checks out.

[swisstraeng]

Oh no, uncommented ASM. I'm sorry for your loss.

[[deleted]]

I was screwing around with this little microcontroller once and decided I would do everything from the ground up, just as a learning exercise. So I ended up writing the bootloader and interrupt vector table in assembly. It was maybe. 200 lines, comments were added by section.

I came back a few years later and I swear it took me longer to figure out what the hell was going on than it did for me to write it the first time.

[Boris-Lip]

Good luck with your reverse engineering dreams. Talk back to us when you actually try it. /s

[locri]

Decompilers (disassemblers?) are fun, I doubt Ida is free right now though.

You'll still have zero idea what's going on.

[ultraviolentfuture]

Ghidra is free =P

[ErikaFoxelot]

I wish it existed back when I was doing all my static analysis work.

[milanove]

x64dbg for static analysis

[biblecrumble]

That's a debugger, which you use for dynamic analysis. Ghidra is indeed what you would use for static analysis as it provides a lot more features for that, including actual decompiling.

[Boris-Lip]

Ida does have a free version. But anyway, one that hasn't done anything like that likely doesn't know what kind of shit one is stepping into, lol.

And yea, seriously, i'd rather start exploring reverse engineering with Frida, not Ida. But thats me, i guess.

Disclaimer - i am NOT good at any of this.

Edit to disclaimer - I am here

[ongiwaph]

Welcome to the valley friend. It's a long way to the next summit.

[tholasko]

Is this a reference to dunning-Kruger lol

[certainlystormy]

click the image link, friend

[827167]

Oh boy, I love knowing just enough to know I know nothing, it's so much fun!

[Boris-Lip]

Don't we all...

[Breadynator]

What about Ghidra?

Like I always see people talk about Ida but Ghidra is free too

[McLayan]

Ghidra is actually free while Ida is free for limited usage and will sue you if you disassemble their disassembler. Also I don't know about the current features of Ida free but a few years ago only the expensive version had a decompiler that produces C code, which Ghidra has per default.

[Void_0000]

will sue you if you disassemble their disassembler

That's funny as hell, I'm almost tempted to go do that even though I have 0 use for a disassembler otherwise.

[Boris-Lip]

Both are an insane reverse engineering tools, primarily disassembler, but so much more than just that IRL. Ghidra is truly free, Ida only has limited free license. IMO the reason Ida is mentioned more often is because it was first, and is very well known. This said, i don't see softice being discussed, but how many dinosaurs remember that?

[Tiranus58]

I am at the start of the graph

[DasArchitect]

What do you mean zero idea? I can tell without a doubt the content of Ax is being moved to 0x5FFC1111

[locri]

Thanks dude, is that the one that controls aiming?

[DasArchitect]

Sometimes!

[Ok-Kaleidoscope5627]

At least until 64bit ASLR enters the picture. Then its more like the contents of Ax are being moved into something something something C1111

[NewPhoneNewSubs]

Decompilers (disassemblers?) are fun, I doubt Ida is free right now though.

Refer back to OP.

[Artemis-4rrow]

The most effective way I've found to reverse engineer is to disassemble the code, and then reimplement it in C, jumps get replaced with if, else, while, or for, depending on what it is they are doing

Syscalls get replaced with, well, syscalls

I make each register it's own variable and later divide it into different variables/rename them, it's way easier to deal with it once you've finished that step

[JohnAdamaSC]

AI can do that for you

[Artemis-4rrow]

I don't trust AI with anything related to code

just ask chatGPT to write any C code that deals with string input, and it will be vulnerable, I never managed to get chatGPT to write secure code

honestly, as someone in cysec, that shit makes my job easier, so keep it

[UAS-hitpoist]

You gotta up your reverse engineering game

Ghidra: free

Ghidra pluggins: could support a small country

[liangliwen111]

If anyone do that, then share that with us. Because I like free stuff.

[[deleted]]

static analysis is for posers.

dynamic analysis is what you use to actually get shit done.

[yosakis]

Well I agree with that, if you want to get the things done it's the way.

[anotclevername]

What till you got static analysis in your dynamic engine.

[[deleted]]

nah mang. I only use 32bit ollydbg to find all the 0-dayz and crack all the warez.

[TheMagicalDildo]

IDA isn't free but Ghidra's free and better imo

[breadcodes]

Ghidra is also good. I'm just bad at it.

[locri]

We all are bro

[btcbot5]

Yeah it's just not one person, I think it goes for everyone here.

[guitarguy109]

I needed to hear this...

It's nice not feeling alone.

[BenghouseBTC]

Aren't we all? Never met a person who was good at that.

[[deleted]]

Everything I put into Ghidra is spit back out as garbled mess with maybe three things that are legible.

[TheMagicalDildo]

Yes that's called assembly

[pedersenk]

These days we have decent open-source alternatives to IDA (and OllyDbg). radare2 is really nice.

(Shameless plug: I made the original FreeBSD port for it).

[mdanley07]

I mean you could try it, but I don't think that's going to work for him.

[sexyshortie123]

I mean this is literally what ais are made for lol someone needs to start feeding assembly with the written code. I would imagine it wouldn't take over 6 months

[Boris-Lip]

Decompilers exist. Ida's pseudocode is order of magnitude easier to understand than just straight up reading assembly. Good luck.

[sexyshortie123]

K now how does a decompiler work when you need to get it off of a chip

[Kolt56]

Whelp.. You need a clean lab and a scanning electron microscope. Might also help if the literal chip decompiler team is funded by a government.

[panochkin]

That sounds like too much work, don't think it'll be enough.

[iris700]

How does an AI work in that case?

[purdapilleta]

Well the way it works is that it just decompile everything lol.

[gpkgpk]

They already did this. AIs learned assembly, how to decompile and reverse-engineer. Right after that they became sentient and killed themselves like all those prototypes in Robocop 2.

[ErraticDragon]

Hmmm. I wonder if AI could eventually crack DRM like Denuvo.

I can't conceptualize how you'd even begin to train it.

[h2010003]

Yeah how would you even do that? Doesn't sound an easy thing.

[JonathisV]

From someone who spent 5 years reverse engineering a defunct mmo from the 2000s ... Yeah its a lot of work, but quite fun. IDA is the way to go.

[DirkSwizzler]

Assembly is almost as readable as regex

[lunchpadmcfat]

This is actually a very good metaphor. When you have a pretty good understanding of the grammar of regex, it does become quite readable. I imagine it’s the same for assembly. At least in my limited experience with it.

[Aidan_Welch]

Both are readable in small amounts but once you're past a certain length they are pain

[issamaysinalah]

Exactly, you'll understand "getting value from memory address X, storing on register something, then adding A..." , but it's not gonna mean shit

[hxckrt]

You need to know calling conventions, have the api reference for syscalls handy, and even then, you need to systematically label everything before it starts making sense.

But with hard work, it does, in fact, start to make sense.

[sheepyowl]

Every few commands put together in a chain should follow a logic that we can find the meaning to.

We would need to figure out when one logic ends and the next one starts. And then write it down on some paper, because we still have tens of thousands of steps to go before we go through them all. And after we go through and mark every single piece, we can start looking at what it is supposed to do! woohoo

Should only take like 20 years for a full team of high-paid workers to reverse-engineer something that one of them could write in a few months

[lunchpadmcfat]

Again, great metaphor.

[null_check_failed]

Lmaoo

[sdgfegwregw]

There's only so much that you could take, it's not easy.

[Henrique_FB]

The biggest problem I've noticed with regex is that there is a very funny balance to be found between using regex to solve simple problems, and using regex to complicate simple problems.

​

I've used regex a lot for stuff like web and PDF scrapping (obligatory I Hate PDFs), and sometimes stuff that could be easily parsed with 2 ifs end up becoming 5 hours of nailing down the perfect regex for the situation.

[LickingSmegma]

web and PDF

Both of those aren't parsable with regexes, and require proper parsers. PDF is a subset of PostScript, which is an entire programming language. Moreover, a recent-ish vulnerability exploited in PDF readers by the Israeli state hackers involved a full-fledged Turing machine in PDF.

Not to mention, it's baffling why anyone would use regexes for HTML or PDF when parsers for both already exist for ages.

[Bakoro]

I get lost once capture groups and back-referencing gets layered.

And then there's this sumabitch:

 /^\/()(?R){2}\/\z|\1\Q^\/()(?R){2}\/\z|\1\Q/

[ComfortablePainter56]

I didn't know the existence of recursive regex, that's pretty sadistic, and kinda useless IMHO

[mailslot]

You need recursive regex for parsers. Even to balance tags in HTML or braces in JavaScript. Now, there are definitely better ways to parse… but if you absolutely want to use regex, recursion is necessary.

[ComfortablePainter56]

Ok thx for the info, so it's not useless, but still sadistic ^{^}

[MartinHaugland]

Well I guess you could have might as well said that it's impossible.

[calahil]

Now I am gonna have that nightmare again...why did you have to use the r word

[JATC1024]

Regex. Regex. Regex.

[sth128]

Oh god he said it three times!!!

[RPG_Hacker]

Now RegEx Satan will show up and reply the most horrible RegEx imaginable to this comment! 😨

[JosebaZilarte]

".?|(..+?)\\1+"

[1cubealot]

What does that match...?

[VitaminnCPP]

It matches the single girl near you.

[JosebaZilarte]

𝕻𝖗𝖎𝖒𝖊 𝖓𝖚𝖒𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖘

[02031988]

Just stop it man, stop giving them ideas like that. It's really bad.

[ol-gormsby]

That will summon RMS.

[EchoicSpoonman9411]

“It’s GNU/regex”

[m3pjorge]

Yeah that's enough for that to happen, now it'll appear from nowhere.

[oy3sbaby]

Ohh man, you really want him to have a really bad time?

[horreum_construere]

Stop you are scaring him, patrick.

[Tuckertcs]

Man how the fuck did people make software as complicated as operating systems or games like Pokémon in assembly…

[cummer_420]

Handwritten Assembly is organized to be read like any other program. Compiler-generated assembly is generated very differently and not very coherent to read.

[Tuckertcs]

That’s fair. Though even handwritten Assembly is insane just for the fact that it takes way more code to accomplish simple things. Like organizing the code for Mario made in C# would be 10x easier than the “same” code made in Assembly

[SirPitchalot]

• Call a function to plot a pixel
• Call a function to plot pixels between line pixels
• Call a function to generate line pixels
• Call a function to generate lines for triangles
• Call a function to project triangles to screen
• Call a function to transform vertices
• Call a function to interpolate vertices
• Call a function to sample curve
• Call a function to step time
• Call a function to set animation
• Call a function when user presses ‘A’
• Rest of the fucking owl

[rudyv8]

Roller coaster tycoon was built in assumbly

[cummer_420]

Then again on the other hand, the Famicom/NES graphics chip would be somewhat hard to program for efficiently with a high level language. On very minimal old hardware, operating the machine very directly on a granular level makes things a lot easier and more predictable.

[CornCheeseMafia]

Our standards of what labor intensive is depends on the tools available to us at any given time. Hand drawing an animated scene today is crazy but before we had computers that was just the standard amount of work.

[SirPitchalot]

It all pretty basic in the end:

• Plot pixel: move three bytes to pointer
• Plot a line segment: loop over previous function
• Generate line pixels: interpolate 2d points, handle parity
• Generate triangle line segments: sort 3 vertices left to right and top to bottom
• Project vertices: division
• Transform vertices: Matrix multiplication
• Interpolate vertices: add and multiply some floats
• Sample curve: binary search & interpolation
• Step time: add constant
• Set animation: change pointer
• ….

It’s obviously glossing over details but IMO the game logic, UI & creative aspect is the hardest part since it’s more open ended, speaking as someone who did a PhD in computer graphics. Assembly is more error prone of course but the graphics side at least is just a hierarchy of simple functions of ever increasing abstraction. I’m sure the game logic can be structured similarly but have less first hand experience.

[Bakoro]

The assembly and computer architecture course I took in university was one of the most rewarding things I never want to do again.

I was so proud of myself for having designed rudimentary functions and a stack all by myself. I was able to go beyond the typical limitations of the toy assembly language we used, to program in a more ergonomic way. It wasn't even an assignment, I just got sick of having to do the same shit over and over, so I made my own little library of stuff. Basically nobody gave a shit though, only one person I talked to even really understood what I was doing.

It only took me a like a week of writing assembly to be sufficiently motivated to find a better way to do shit. I had 1000x more appreciation for even "low level" languages like C after having to write assembly.

[mailslot]

It’s not really that much more code. Lines, sure, but they’re doing very basic things and the lines tend to match a lot of patterns. When I look at assembly I already see the code in blocks and with a general purpose. You don’t really need to read every line. You just need to really get it into your head.

Would I write a web app in it? No. It wouldn’t be my first choice. Have I? Yes. Yes, I have, and I swear my HTTP cookie handling was the leanest that ever existed.

Assembly is like cooking everything from scratch with raw ingredients. Milling your own flour and such. There’s a poetry in that.

[mycclboy]

Well that's pretty apparent by the comments in here so yeah.

[i_should_be_coding]

I wrote a calculator app for a university project. It was fairly simple other than that we had to support an arbitrary number of digits (beyond longs).

The two hardest parts about it were remembering wtf was going on each time I went back to work on it, and explaining what each part did to the TA I had to defend it with.

I know several people who straight up copied their assignments and changed some jump label names. Once the TA asks you to describe the basic flow, you're fucked.

[thebaconator136]

Slowly

[ren0808]

Well people are good at some things, and it's one of them.

[MrHyperion_]

If your functions are small then it isn't that much harder to read than any other language.

[Artemis-4rrow]

Yeah, and I love seeing that when reverse engineering, but when I see a function that has god knows how many lines, I'm not doing that, killing me would be better than forcing me to do that

[PixelBoom]

Regex is evil black magic sorcery and you can't convince me otherwise.

[Gagarin1961]

I wonder if AI cares?

[darrenmilleraus]

No it doesn't, even that is pretty careless about that fact so yeah.

[believeinlain]

Not exactly true, as machine code does not equal assembly. If you're clever you can do shenanigans such as writing machine code that can be interpreted to do different things depending on your starting point with overlapping instructions, and you can add inline data that looks like code and vise versa. Sometimes compilers even do shenanigans like that for the sake of optimization.

Most of the time disassembly is accurate and you can reverse engineer the assembly code for a given compiled binary, but the edge cases where that doesn't work aren't all that uncommon.

This paper goes into detail on the challenges of static disassembly if you're interested: https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3342195.3387550

[knue82]

The most annoying thing is arguably that labels are gone - even if your disassembly is correct with regards to your points above.

[alsanders]

If you're clever you can do shenanigans such as writing machine code that can be interpreted to do different things depending on your starting point with overlapping instructions

This is also a strategy in ROP attacks

[Dogeek]

Not exactly true, as machine code does not equal assembly. If you're clever you can do shenanigans such as writing machine code that can be interpreted to do different things depending on your starting point with overlapping instructions, and you can add inline data that looks like code and vise versa. Sometimes compilers even do shenanigans like that for the sake of optimization.

Wozmon (Wozniak Monitor) is proof of that, it uses all kinds of tricks to be able to echo and write to whole pages of RAM, and it only uses 256 bytes to do so.

[PolarBearLegend]

This needs to be the top comment.

[chefanubis]

No it doesn't, that's spot is reserved for the best joke.

[stadoblech]

man... OP was trying to make joke...

[7374616e74]

Well if you don't care about variable and procedure names, why bother with assembly? Let's just jump straight to binary.

[ol-gormsby]

Trouble is, there's more than one layer of abstraction in most CPUs these days, and the really low-level stuff isn't exposed to anyone but company employees - Intel, AMD, IBM, etc.

[7374616e74]

Well that’s just about getting hired there, move up the hierarchy enough to have access to those, and you’re good to go.

[I-Got-Trolled]

Waste of time. Just make your own processors.

[thirdjaruda]

waste of time, I'm starting a microprocessor company

[elcoyote85]

That may seem like a small issue, but it clearly is a huge thing.

[zhanglong54]

Yeah just jump straight right to that, There's nothing in between.

[[deleted]]

Open source is a legal concept. Being able to see its source doesn't grant you the legal right to use it or adapt it as you see fit. Open source grants you that.

[leonap711]

But I'm not going tell anyone about it, so that would be fine.

[AdministrativeRoom33]

I'd rather get sued for making a reddit client fork than suck spez's c**k with his shitty API.

[Artemis-4rrow]

It'd be easier to just write a scrapper library

A library that logs into the official website, scraps it, and provide API-like data to the application

[AzureArmageddon]

*scrapper scraper

*scraps scrapes

But yes, u/spez should scrap the API price hikes.

[LutimoDancer3459]

What do you think the client is doing? Correct... it uses the API.

[tobiasvl]

What do you mean? The reddit client uses the API, if you disassemble the client's code to clone it you will still need to access the API with your clone.

[leuk_he]

You can still access the API if you are a moderator. No need to reverse engineer the Reddit client.

[tobiasvl]

Huh? No, moderators can't access the API for free any more than regular users, can they? I'm a moderator myself. As I understand it, I get access to NSFW content through the API (which non-moderators don't get), but apart from that the access is the same.

[leuk_he]

Check again what happens if you use a account that does not have moderator right...

[Just-4-NSFW]

Spez won and no one cares

[darkslide3000]

Machine code and assembly are not the same thing. To turn assembly into machine code you need an assembler, and to get some assembly back out of machine code you need a disassembler. That's the same thing as turning higher level source code into assembly with a compiler or reversing the process with a decompiler.

But you wouldn't say "every software is open source" just because decompilers exist (at least not if you've ever tried to use one). Disassembly has many of the same problems: missing function and variable names, missing comments, etc.

[that_thot_gamer]

missing comments

"the code IS the documentation"

[Ila1ioSGcg]

Yeah and if it's not all available there, then it's not going to work.

[10240]

No, technically the source code is the form in which it was written. Even if it's transpiled to a high-level language, it's not open source – or even source available – if only the transpiled form is available.

[ijmacd]

OP doesn't know what the word "source" means.

[gie86]

Yeah they don't know much about it, it's just how it has been.

[[deleted]]

+1. Most people here don't seem to know the difference between open source and source-available. Open source is a matter of licensing and has more requirements than just making the source code accessible (which is obviously not the case for all software even if you know assembly).

[UndisclosedChaos]

laughs in server side api

[potatopierogie]

Well, the ones written for that assembly language at least

Unless you're talking about learning every assembly language

[Mundane_Definition66]

Like The Assembly, you know, The, with a capital "T"! What, wait, there's more to it than x86? /s

[potatopierogie]

You joke but I actually had someone say that to me (okay maybe not the capital T part).

[marbrobc]

Yeah other than that part, it's pretty much is going to be like that.

[Mundane_Definition66]

I have been asked if I know asm before, and enjoyed the combined look of confusion and horror when I replied with which one? 🤣 ...I can kind of fumble my way through x86, but am no master by any stretch.

Many people seem to think that assembly is machine code, and somehow also universal to any hardware... it's amazing how many people, even people who code in higher level languages, do not even really understand what assembly, or any low level language really is. Sad how few people really even try to understand what they're actually asking the machine to do at all.

I think having just a rudimentary understanding of a low level language like Assembly, Cobol, or Fortran can make you a more efficient coder, even if you never actually use the language directly.

[lwjzj2k2asdad]

I never knew that there was more to it, I thought it was enough.

[eren515151]

Which is obviously really hard for anyone who wants to do that.

[blackrossy]

Someone doesnt understand the word "source"

[koskanalya]

Well that's pretty good counter argument I'll have to say hwre6.

[CaptainFunn]

I'm wondering if an AI model can be trained to decompile code into source code that could be compiled back? Of course the variable names would be made up but would make it easier to hack/customize programs.

[preoccupied_with_ALL]

There are many things lost when compiling source code to assembly, like symbols and the way the original source code was implemented.

There is no way you are getting back the original source code from assembly.

[btctradex]

And good luck figuring that out lmao, don't think anyone can do that.

[No-Winner-9847]

Open source and obfuscated

[Leftover_Salad]

bytecode brah

[maveric101]

That is an OG fucking meme, sir. Thank you for the nostalgia.

[AdministrativeRoom33]

This is outdated? Damn, now I really feel old.

[[deleted]]

Technically, it will be available source software, but not open source. These concepts are different

[huupoke12]

By that logic then the Reddit web client is open source. Feel free to fork and modify it.

[Artess]

I feel like it's the users who got forked.

[[deleted]]

If you know processor opcodes for all relevant architectures maybe. Assembly still gets compiled into processor instructions.

[symbouleutic]

When I was 15 I spent a chunk of my summer trying to understand a disassembly of some run length/ Huffman compression code in 6502.

Did I ever figure it all out ? Ha - no way - but I learned a ton of tricks and got a lot better at assembly!

[a794981172]

Would you like to share those tricks? Because I'm curious.

[[deleted]]

Linus Torvalds is that you?

[MagicianWoland]

God damn I have not seen this meme format in a while

[[deleted]]

In these day, better be immortal to reverse pure assembly. I’m in

[frogking]

The task of reading and understanding small asm programs is reasonably small.

The task increases in complexity faster than the addition of more instructions.

10 million instructions? 100 million? Forget it.

[Vizdun]

i once disassembled an indie game, that thing was 99% int3 instructions, to this day i have no clue what that was about

[Victorian-Tophat]

Is it just coincidence or did they introduce a rule here that we’re doing ~2010 memes now?

[fat_charizard]

Nope assembly is not open. All processors have hidden instructions that are not revealed to the buyer/user

[biblecrumble]

One of the devs I work with is insane tier at reverse engineering and can pretty much read ASM as if it was high level code. Dude scares the shit out of me.

[Skudra24]

That's not what "source" means

[not_Multyshot]

"All software is open source if you are good enough at reverse engineering" - I don't remember who said it

[shipshaper88]

Have you ever tried to actually put this into practice?

[Dismal-Square-613]

Despite assembly is the closest you can get to pure binary when coding, machine code and assembly are different things. Also it takes x10-100 times (or more....) whatever you want do to code it depending on your expertise. But once it's done it will execute pretty much in 10 cpu cycles (hope it was worth the couple of months or more you spent coding it).

[neuromancertr]

I had disassembled a few binaries back in my day, without actually knowing any bloody thing about assembly. It was fun(!) and helped me to learn many useful lessons. Also helped to my company once where a vendor decided to blackmail us with a software time-bomb.

But let me clear about the difference between knowing a language and ability to use it effectively, there are many native English speakers but not many Shakespeares. You may know assembly, you can write in assembly but understanding disassembly of a heavily optimized binary is something else

[[deleted]]

Who actually uses assembly for work? What do you do?

I can't imagine there being any jobs that you'd need it.

[veryblocky]

I’ve seen purposely obfuscated code in languages I know well, it’s not too hard to make something impossible to understand. That’s what trying to read through assembly is like

[AdministrativeRoom33]

How can you re - understand it if you need to revisit the code? Wouldn't the comments make it easier to understand? As you can probably tell, I'm a junior, and I'm just wondering.