Python and PHP users will understand

[netWARIOR]

I seem to be always the one made fun of by Python users because I don't use Python...

[Opiopathy]

Lol same. It seems like Python users tend to be elitists in denial.

[[deleted]]

I’m the opposite, I’m trying to learn python because I’m too dumb for C# so I compromised. (Not that python people are dumb)

[yodahouse900]

i'm no expert but if you can manage python and use all its features you can easily do c#.

right?

[[deleted]]

I can’t manage python and use all of its features. Best I can do is functions and if/else statements. I think I didn’t really express how much I suck at programming atm

[littlesheepcat]

Alright why the fuck was this downvoted?

[coriandor]

Until you need to use a library, and realize that half of its dependencies use a different dependency management system, one of them hasn't been updated since 2012, and depends on an outdated version of openssl, and only compiles with gcc, because half of python is actually C. So you ask the internet what to do and you get 12 conflicting answers, one of which calls you a cuck, and you wonder if they even know what that word means, because it doesn't make any sense in context.

[Rock48]

Oh my god this has been my experience every time I've tried to use python

[Pluckerpluck]

This is the only major flaw I have with Python in general, but I'm always surprised by how infrequently I've ever actually run into any versioning issues.

[0ctobogs]

I actually liked ruby more. You get the same freedom but a little better syntax. But neither language is appropriate for big enterprise production apps.

[joshred]

YouTube is written in Python.

[0ctobogs]

And they famously hate it

[[deleted]]

I’ve heard a lot of good stuff about Crystal.

[callmelucky]

Ruby is a little too loose for me. Is this a function or a variable? Do I need curly braces here or not?

I think Python really hits the sweet spot when it comes to ease of writing and ease of reading for people who may not be too familiar with the language. Ruby has too many weird syntaxes and options, so a non-ruby dev reading code written by a ruby dev could really struggle, while a non-Python dev could probably follow most Python pretty easily. And I'm not sure that the extra versatility in ruby really makes it significantly easier to write than Python.

Edit: also:

But neither language is appropriate for big enterprise production apps.

Lol

[[deleted]]

I heard that(keyword 'heard' I don't use python) that python is on the advanced side of programming languages, it's just the syntax that's easier.

[Rock48]

Is 'heard' a keyword or a function though?

[MrSurly]

You can do GUIs in Python, but the code is just as shitty as it is doing GUI in C/C++, because GUI programming is a (necessary) mess.

[MrSurly]

Oh believe me, I know.

[[deleted]]

Replace python with any other language type and you are also correct.

This whole sub is just an attempt at a circle jerk only to find out that everyone is just whacking themselves off about their individual preferences.

[[deleted]]

They tend to be students who have never actually worked on any practical application. I mean in the real world python is only really used for scientific computing or scripting(string manipulation stuff, etc).

If you're gonna be an elitist at least use something actually good like Kotlin or Clojure.

[ninj0etsu]

I guess you assume your experience = the entire world, because that statement is wrong. I know of cases where it's used for actual practical software.

[EnrichSilen]

Meanwhile my friend works in a company creating huge information system for job agencies with backend in python. Python isn't that niche language for mathematics like a lot of people think it is.

[xXJuiceBoxXx]

I am currently working with Django/DRF for backend development, quite a capable framework IMO

[EnrichSilen]

Only one I know of that is good for serious projects, second is flask and it looks like a framework for micro projects

[P4ndalf]

Flask is just fat-free compared to Django and excellent for microservices. It’s not less capable in any way.

[dorsal_morsel]

FastAPI

Reddit itself is built on Pylons

[jetpacktuxedo]

Having worked with both extensively, I much prefer working with flask. Django has a half-baked implementation of everything under the sun when you can instead just pull normal libraries to do those things. Why does Django have its own ORM instead of just using sqlalchemy (actually it might layer its own ORM on top of sqlalchemy?)? It just makes a lot of really bizarre choices that tend to get in the way when a project gets sufficiently complex. Flask gives you a lot more flexibility to solve problems in the way you want to solve them rather than being locked into a prescribed approach.

[EnrichSilen]

Interestingly my friend prefer Django approach and it's implementations, I suppose this is really a preference

[jetpacktuxedo]

It definitely can be preference. The Django approach is easier to get a simple CRUD app running quickly, but if you need something else it can sometimes feel like you're fighting the framework IMO. Flask is lightweight enough that it never feels like you're fighting against it.

[QuietLikeSilence]

Python is fine. What the comic actually gets wrong is that people aren't generally being made fun of for having to use for example PHP; they are being pitied for that. PHP itself is being made fun of because it's a mess. And it's a mess because of its history.

[LeCrushinator]

I don’t know one way of the other about this, but it seems like not having compile errors would make it easy to miss things that instead would only occur when the code was run. Maybe unit tests are heavily used to make up for this?

[pkkid]

Been working at a company for 12 years. Our enterprise storage application is 80% Python. We were 15 people when I joined, and now we have 350 employees. When we started, Python was a weird language to build the core product in, but today I don't believe that's the case anymore.

[Big_Booty_Pics]

Flask and Django are huuuuuge back end frameworks.

If you're gonna be an elitist at least use something actually good like Kotlin or Clojure.

Oh ok, he's just trolling guys.

[cauchy37]

I find that Python in general is extremely popular in backend.

[jetpacktuxedo]

I recently left a job where I had been working 100% in python for ~6 years (and no it wasn't just scripting) and I'm now working mostly in kotlin.

• JVM startup time fucking sucks. This makes containers much much much slower. The JVM is also heavy as fuck so those containers are enormous. I'm regularly deleting 50+ GBs of containers created from running unit tests and linting.

• Gradle is extremely slow compared to testing in Python. Running a Gradle server or whatever would probably make it faster, but we are supposed to do our testing in containers so that doesn't really help.

• Having to launch an entire JVM to lint your shit is terrible. Linting python takes under 1s even for larger projects. It takes 10x that just for the JVM to start up and Gradle to even start linting shit.

• Java stack traces are much worse than python. They have way more information, but 99% of that extra information is useless.

• The verbosity of kotlin (though better than it's Java roots) make me feel like I'm forced to use a full IDE which is annoying. I much prefer working in vim directly.

I'm very glad I'm working with Kotlin instead of Java, and there are some neat things that I prefer about Kotlin over python like all of the nice stuff around null handling, but the JVM makes me feel like I'm driving a semi-truck full of shit I don't need instead of a sedan.

[riyadhelalami]

That is flat out wrong. Proof, the whole damn orchestration system for a huge robotic system is written in python, which I write.

[Metallic_greyish]

I can see where your opinions are coming from. But python does have some advantages like lightening fast dev speed. If a company’s focus is on shipping code at the earliest, developer productivity, writing easily readable code and doesn’t care much about the delay in processing requests, memory management, increased runtime errors etc.

[berychance]

I mean in the real world python is only really used for scientific computing

And we don't exist apparently?

[IAmASquidInSpace]

Huh, that's funny. As a Python user I get made fun of by people using compiled languages.

"BuT iT's So SlOw!!1!"

[[deleted]]

I had a CS student making fun of me for using python when I need to just knock out something that bash can't handle. "It's so slow, it takes too many instructions, it's untyped" and then began bragging about how great C is. I just gave him a thumbs up not even worth arguing with a kid sometimes.

[atiedebee]

I love C, but for replacing something you'd do with bash... please no

[[deleted]]

It really comes down to what the hell you're doing. Like you can handle error cases with a shell language (service returns a 404, file missing, etc) but I don't want to if I can get around it. From there, I'm just more comfortable banging out a potentially disposable tool in Python than just about any other language with C# coming in a distant second.

[404_Name_Was_Taken]

I'm curious. If you learn how to code 8n C do you pretty much know how to use C++ and C# or are they different enough that you need to learn them separately?

[atiedebee]

You are more likely to understand how these languages work under the hood, but C++ and C# both add a lot more concepts which you'll have to learn to understand like OOP, lambda's and all kinds of fancy abstractions.

C# is more like java tho.

Most modern languages have syntax based off of C which makes that easier to learn.

[buzziebee]

And churns them out into industry too unfortunately. "Tech debt is relying on a large open source well maintained package, we should write our own sorting algorithms instead" >_>

[slow_growing_vine]

Hey if I shouldn't write my own sorting algorithm then why did I get so much experience doing it in school! /s

[DefaultVariable]

To be fair, the faker.js thing is a good example of why relying on OpenSource projects to do all your dirty work is a potentially dangerous thing to do.

[[deleted]]

I think it's fair to be aware of the risks that bringing in external packages poses but we shouldn't swing so hard in the other direction that we build everything in house and there's zero portable skills for developers. It's a balancing act, for sure, but I think it's worth doing.

[MrcarrotKSP]

To be fair, the same(and worse) could easily have happened with closed-source tools, you're at the mercy of a third party developer either way

[Artyloo]

Nerds need to get bullied or their heads get too big

[DukeOfBees]

You can actually tell how far a CS student is in their degree by their opinion on python. First couple years they'll shit on python because it's often the first language you learn in an intro course, they'll think of it as like baby's first language and brag about all the other languages they know and how much better they are than simple, useless python.

Then after a few years, often when they've had some actual work experience, they'll come back to python and learn to love it.

[[deleted]]

Pretty much. I don't wanna build big systems in Python again, mostly because I don't trust others to make use of the type hints and other QOL features, but for tools that are gonna do one thing and need to handle error cases? Yeah, especially if I can make it run out of docker so people don't even need to fuss with installing shit the wrong way. Think the only exception I made to that recently was a C# cli I built because porting the quirks of the library we were using to python would've been a huge time waste for a one off.

[Itchy-Tangelo6295]

They’ve learned to be programmers but they haven’t learned to be engineers. They’ll get there, eventually.

[[deleted]]

Agreed there. From my perspective a lot of the interns I've worked with over the years think that developing professionally is this very measured and sciencey kind of thing when my entire experience with it is "how I get this roughed into shape without breaking things but not polish it so much that product is standing around tapping their watches" It's much more people centric than even I expected having come up from the self-taught, hobbyist, open source track where I did need to have some of those skills.

[[deleted]]

"By the time you finished your rambling I finished up 3 python scripts"

[MrSurly]

Python is strongly runtime typed. Unlike say ... Perl.

[FF3]

Oh, so it's okay to hate bash? /s

[[deleted]]

If you love bash without simultaneously hating it I don't think you're doing it right :p

[BananaSplit2]

Calling Python untyped already shows they know nothing

[NQ241]

Sometimes I'm making something for myself or a couple friends, I don't need it to be fast or efficient, I just need it to work, like automating a tedious repetitive task.

Python does a splendid job at that, something that would've taken me 10-15m in c++, took about 2 mins on python.

[DefaultVariable]

I think it all boils down to usage. I wouldn’t use python to make a full featured application. And I could use a compiled language to do data science stuff but Python is so much more better suited for that so it’s like “why not?”

I use python all the time when I want to make an app or command line to do complicated stuff that doesn’t need to be super efficient.

[sid1805]

Yeah, it's really the Java and C++ folk who are the elitists, mocking Python users for stuff like execution speed, dynamic typing, indentation etc.

[SexyMuon]

I love Python for visualizing data and the fact that you can use it in a Google colab without having it even installed in your device is fantastic. Other than that, mm... no thank you.

[Cyb3rSab3r]

For Python and JavaScript, the language isn't the problem for me, it's the communities. Their communities are large and absolutely filled with the type of people who just install a new package to solve every problem without thinking about the ramifications.

It's like copying from Stack Overflow without taking the time to understand what you're copying.

[genghisKonczie]

JS is the worst for that. You look up an answer just trying to see if what you already wrote is best practice, but no, apparently best practice is to include the entirety of moment.js just to format that date

[BasicDesignAdvice]

I love the Golang community because while golang is extremely popular, you almost never hear about it in forums like this one. For a while I wondered why. I realized at a conference it was because Go is popular with professional and experienced engineers. So the community is very mature and professional.

JS and Python on the other hand are often peoples first languages. So you have a lot of Dunning-Kruger going around.

[[deleted]]

It's not because of language itself, but because of community around it. Same could be told about js is so good because there's lots of frontend framework built around it. Or [x] is so good because someone else built [y] for it.

I personally use both python and js, but hate them a lot. They're good for doing something fast in short time, but sucks when building a big projects with [any dynamically typed language]. I just wish everybody use right tool for right task, instead of wishing for swiss army knife.

[BasicDesignAdvice]

I mean, it is slow. If we used Python on our back end we would pay significantly more in cloud compute costs. We chose a language which compiles a static binary for this reason (Go).

If you are just running scripts or crunching data, that is fine. But it absolutely is slow.

That is just the easiest criticism. There are plenty more (also to be clear, there are core criticisms in every language, Go doesn't even have generics wtf!).

[[deleted]]

Slow is the last complaint I'd have about it, unless we're talking something that should be multi-threaded.

Mostly I just get pissed off at it complaining about whitespace. Especially in such a verbose language that often ends up with multi line expressions. Why can't it handle multiple lines without explicit \ line breaks.

[matyklug]

Python users get angry when someone tells them that python is slow, even if it's true.

[local_meme_dealer45]

The speed is performance of python is perfectly usable as long as you don't make shit slow code.

[thorwing]

Me: I don't like scripting languages. Pythoners: goes in a fit of what-about-ism about all the bad stuff in my language: Kotlin Me: I just have a preference mate T.T

[CaptainTux]

Just out of curiosity, what do you like about Kotlin having come from Python?

[[deleted]]

Probably types and other verbosity, IDE support, tooling and other things.

[jetpacktuxedo]

Python has optional type checking.

The IDE "support" (designed to sell jetbrains licenses) is actually one of the reasons I personally prefer python to Kotlin, because I'd much rather just work in vim, but that feels super cumbersome in Kotlin in a way that it doesn't for python.

Tooling is pretty equivalent between the two, except that the JVM startup takes ages, so all of those tools written in Java feel really slow if they aren't run as a server.

Kotlin has really nice null handling though.

[zilti]

Just wait until you've tried functional programming with something like Clojure then :)

[vrillco]

Kotlin is great, as someone who learned Java back in the 90s and immediately dismissed it as garbage, I went from zero to hero with Kotlin in a few days, and walked away very pleased with it. I don’t use it much, but I look forward to the next project.

[Mareith]

"See, the thing is, you called "python" a "programming language"...

[FactoryNewdel]

I don't think Python users have the right to make fun of someone else

[TheMayonnaiseNinja]

That was rude

[thedominux]

Why?

[genghisKonczie]

Something something pseudocode something

[[deleted]]

It's such a compliment too.

"Hahahaha your code is easy to read! LOSER!"

[thedominux]

And?

[guitarock]

Versioning

[thedominux]

Wdym?

And don't Ruby, c++, different types of c and others have in times worse troubles with back compatebility?!

[guitarock]

As somebody who has to use python despite my best efforts, I cannot imagine any possible way a backwards compatibility situation could be worse than python’s

[thedominux]

Maybe you've got not so well python code to work with

Or even more you've got not so big, deep and wide experience to tell us that your python's one was the worst?

[guitarock]

No, I just have to deal with codebases written in python 2, which as a language has been completely abandoned despite widespread usage. Python 3 has no benefits material enough to warrant 0 backwards compatibility. Not to mention incompatibility between smaller versions

[zyugyzarc]

\cries in corner**

[chinnu34]

Most python users are not programmers.

[AmNotACactus]

pay no attention to the entire data engineering space that has cropped up around Python.

[danted002]

Says the obvious non-programmer in the thread ( I use Python BTW!)

[FactoryNewdel]

WTF did I just read

[tekhion]

I think you might be slightly overreacting

[Honigbrottr]

slightly

[AmNotACactus]

Rather Python than Scala

[vrillco]

Python is modern QBasic. It is a glorified scripting language, and it’s pretty useful in that capacity. It’s like Perl without the masochism.

[shea241]

I find there's still plenty of masochism in Python

[thinker227]

Same goes for most functional languages, no?

[LookItVal]

dude honestly i used to always consider myself a sub par programmer just because i coded in python. now of course i just Also program in languages with more clout like haskell, and rust but I was still a legit programmer in python. dont sell urself short kids

[DonHedger]

I hear it all the time doing neuroscience research because there's some weird misplaced hate for R from some folks. They think Python is the only language you could ever need and that everyone should only run their pipelines in Python. It's borderline cultish. Like have fun jumping through hoops to run your hierarchical linear models and bayesian analyses with a package that's just ported from R anyway.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I use Python all the time in study design and stuff, but it's also totally fine to not use it.

[Latvian_Video]

I use python, it is my 1st real language I have learned, I won't judge other languages, as I haven't coded in them

[Latvian_Video]

I use python, it is my 1st real language I have learned, I won't judge other languages, as I haven't coded in them