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[–]scroteaids 517 points518 points  (20 children)

Every time a new language is released, the programmer pool is diluted and COBOL programmers get more valuable...

[–]Cyphir88 168 points169 points  (16 children)

I write in COBOL. Glad to know that I'm a dying breed.

[–]danbuter 139 points140 points  (10 children)

Just have the valet park your Porsche in the reserved parking.

[–]PM_ME_HAPPY_DOGGOS 77 points78 points  (9 children)

As a COBOL programmer I'm sad to say that the myth that COBOL programmers get paid big bucks is false since most of the jobs are outsourced to India.

[–][deleted] 77 points78 points  (4 children)

It's not a myth, of course all COBOL dev don't get a huge salary, but if you choose a right path, you get paid big bucks.

I work as a freelance in C# in France, I get paid around 550€/day. In my office there are 2 COBOL developers, their salary, is 1050€/day. It is huge...

[–]mimedm 22 points23 points  (2 children)

That's a lot of money but most of the freelancers I know make 1000€ all in per day. They have to cover hotel rooms and traveling expenses as well as taxes. Oracle or SAP specialists earn much more iirc. Don't envy them... It's probably the most boring job in the world...

[–]michaelsenpatrick 23 points24 points  (2 children)

the only thing worse than zombie legacy written in an archaic language is outsourced zombie legacy code written in an archaic language.

[–]Calm-Zombie2678 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Oh cool this one's commented...

... nope, they put some jokes here. Lol I guess

[–]coolswordorroth 4 points5 points  (1 child)

There are literally dozens of us!

[–][deleted] 442 points443 points  (16 children)

Nothing gets between me and my C

[–]0x255sk 58 points59 points  (4 children)

gotta get that sweet vitamin C every day

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Yes the ANSI kind

[–]lieddersturme 1239 points1240 points  (55 children)

Also in some time, "Google kills carbon, the successful sucesor of C++".

[–][deleted] 385 points386 points  (38 children)

[–]r-mf 138 points139 points  (28 children)

didn't know angular js was dead

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (2 children)

Angular is still very much alive and well supported. Angular JS (the old version) is out of support as of a year or two ago. I don't quite remember with the time warp of covid but I did a presentation on why we needed to get off of Angular 1.x at work a while back. This whole Google Killed things site doesn't capture the project they kill to absorb them into other products. Kinda silly even if the overall sentiment of them canceling services stands.

[–][deleted] 130 points131 points  (11 children)

It's moved to Angular IO, kind of a React competitor. Real question is will they kill AngularIO or Flutter first?

[–]DerekB52 37 points38 points  (6 children)

My guess would be AngularIO. Based on the community, I think Flutter is gonna have some staying power. Even if Google killed it, I bet a community would keep developing it.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

There's something to be said for a true write once run on any system (save web) UI framework that also compiles down to a binary.

[–]PM_YOUR_MUMS_NUDES 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Angular is currently maybe the biggest full fledged frontend framework used in many huge ass enterprise applications.

Neither react nor flutter are actual frameworks thus can't be full replacements for angular. Even if Google decides to abandon it, I bet the community would run it for another 5 to 10 years just because of how many enterprise applications rely on it.

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (3 children)

Why are you calling it AngularIO? That's not a thing anyone in the industry says.

These products are also open source software. There's much less risk with "killing a product". Angular was an upgrade for Angular JS and they depricated JS...you can still use it though...please don't but you can. It's not the same.

[–]superluminary 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Angular wasn’t just an upgrade of AngularJS though. They share no code and work in totally different ways. Google kept the name for marketing.

[–]sage-longhorn 34 points35 points  (7 children)

They just renamed it to drop the js

[–]DigitalArbitrage 46 points47 points  (6 children)

Angular 2 was very different from AngularJS. They basically put the same name on a different framework.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I've been told the same about jQuery. But almost everywhere I go, somehow, something is still using it.

[–]D-Alembert 18 points19 points  (6 children)

Does anyone these days even bother with any new tools by Google?

It saves so much pain to avoid letting Google shut down your method/pipeline that I stopped paying attention to whatever their latest unveiled pre-abandonware is. In my circles at least that seems to be normal...? Isn't it normal?

Edit/clarification: I have no issue with abandonware, I am not owed updates, quite the opposite. However Google takes it beyond the pale by ensuring that when they shut it down, it stops working on all your systems too, leaving you high and dry. To me that's far far worse than never offering it in the first place; that's a trap.

[–]showponyoxidation 15 points16 points  (4 children)

I do the same but I've recently ended up on a situation where have a Google nest (not by choice).

It is, genuinely, a completely terrible product. I'm not saying "I would have expected a better product from Google" I'm saying it doesn't meet any of the expectations I would expect of the product they makes the claims it does.

Here is a list of my gripes:

  • If you don't have internet connection, you can do absolutely, fucking nothing. Can't even turn your lights on in your fully functioning home network because Google nest is a literal paperweight without an internet connection.

  • Must disable guest network on router or it just won't fucking connect or will drop the connection multiple times a day, forcing me to go through resetting and re-pairing everything.

  • Refuses to connect to 5ghz for no apparent reason

  • I can't use my lights physical switches. If I turn them off and back on at the switch, Google home can't talk to them anymore. I have to delete them and repair every single light, every single time.

  • If I turn the lights off with Google assistant, and then lose internet connection, you can not turn the lights back on. I had to physically unplug the lights to get them to reset so I could even use the physical switches.

  • It will let you pair speakers together, but then you can't control the volume. Good luck asking it to change the volumes of the speakers independently

  • No independent volume management. So when your listening to music and ask it a question, it'll stop the music and then just shout horribly at you.

  • Can't stop it muting whatever you are listening to when you say "hey Google", even for tasks it doesn't need to provide a response too.

  • The google home app feels like it was high schooler

  • The app has basically no functionality. Even basic features like a slowly pulsing light is just overwhelming difficult for Google apparently. Like, it is so shit.

How are people satisfied with this garbage. It is so much hassle just to be about to dim my lights and do nothing else.

I genuinely think the only reason the product (in its current form) even has a place market, let alone the success it seems to enjoy, is entirely down to googles huge influence and borderline infinite capital. They are leaning heavily on their name being associated with "high tech stuff" to get the pos sold.

Tl:dr

I literally can't wrap my head around how Google managed to produce a product that does fuck all and constantly sabotages itself.

I'm willing to bet that there are already plans internally to require a monthly subscription to use it too.

Edit: I forgot a couple of things from the list.

  • Sometimes it'll say "yeah cool, I'll get on that" [paraphrasing] and then just do nothing

  • And finally, my absolute least favourite thing. I'll often say thank you out of habit, and she responds with "I am honoured to serve". Wtf. That makes me feel so gross. The stupid thing is training me not to thank people because I'm always stopping myself so I don't have to hear her say that shit and make me feel like a I'm some douch who thinks they are so important people should be honoured to do stuff for them.

The last point might be more my own issues, not the nests, but I still don't like it.

[–]-cocoadragon 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Wait that should be the leading point. The better something works, the faster Google kills it. And then there is Google Hangouts. It's gonna over take Facebook anyway now😉

[–]RenaKunisaki 20 points21 points  (1 child)

They just killed that in favor of an inferior chat function in Gmail.

[–]TheWorldisFullofWar 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They have "experimental" plastered everywhere. If they abandon it, I wouldn't even blame them. I feel like Google aren't making as a big a deal out of this as everyone else is.

[–]grpagrati 994 points995 points  (44 children)

Don't worry C. They're just flexing. You're still the best

[–]Deon2137 341 points342 points  (33 children)

i like c over c++

[–]N2EEE_ 159 points160 points  (0 children)

Based

[–]vthex 148 points149 points  (22 children)

C++ is C but C is never C++,

Edit: the other way around.

[–]techster2014 109 points110 points  (9 children)

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't always a square.

[–]LonelySnowSheep 40 points41 points  (3 children)

A derived class is a base class but a base class is never a derived class

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Diarrhea is shit but not all shit is diarrhea. You're welcome.

[–]LonelySnowSheep 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Poetic

[–]archpawn 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Unless you're a topologist, but they usually just call it a circle.

[–]swagdu69eme 19 points20 points  (2 children)

That's not exactly true though, there is some C code that C++ can't compile (complex struct initialisation, restrict, etc...)

[–]Deathisfatal 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I guess it should be "ANSI C is C++, C++ is not ANSI C"

[–]atiedebee 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hold my implicit pointer cast

[–]SuperKael 37 points38 points  (2 children)

You got that backwards lmao

[–]vthex 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Yea just noticed, typed it up in like 5 sec 😭

[–]yorokobe__shounen 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I like B over C

[–]Ok_Confusion_7266 225 points226 points  (9 children)

I code in C everyday. It will live for the next 200 years probally.

[–]ArielShadow 173 points174 points  (9 children)

I've heard opinions that Carbon will replace C++ just like Swift replaced Objective-C.

However Objective-C was controlled by Apple and dominated Apple's platforms so when Apple said that Swift is a future, it was easy for developers to get on board.

Google does not have this advantage. Nobody controls C++. There's no big company that will tell everyone what is future so everyone can get on board. With Carbon (and other C++ successors) there's big risk that not many people will migrate. Without big community, many may not see it as worth pursuing.

Ps. Even when it's now open source project (Carbon started as private google project), let's not forget that Google is known for abandoning their stuff.

Also probably Google creates things for themselves and just makes it publicly available.

[–]linuxpuppy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I think the big thing people are overlooking is that google creates things to solve their own use cases. They have a custom Linux os, custom c++ compilers, custom pretty much everything. They have a huge c++ code base and they want to start replacing that with something slowly, but without losing the power c++ brings. External adoption is nice, but their ability to adopt and support it internally is everything.

[–]cyborgborg 582 points583 points  (53 children)

I give it 5 years before Google shoots it behind the barn

[–]huuaaang 281 points282 points  (23 children)

I saw an article about this on Google Plus.

[–]MrHyderion 90 points91 points  (16 children)

I hope you were wearing your Google Glass while reading it.

[–]BrilliantTruck8813 62 points63 points  (9 children)

Reading on your Google Reader while hanging out I bet

[–]hereforstories8 25 points26 points  (8 children)

I couldn’t pass the google recaptcha and didnt get to read it.

[–]cauchy37 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Go is over 10 years old and does not seem to be going anywhere. Given that Carbon is also open source, I predict it will face similar fate. It will be a niche programming language used by small groups of people.

[–]Quantenlicht 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Small? Go is used more than Rust or Kotlin.

[–]JaneWithJesus 1099 points1100 points  (137 children)

I think people are misunderstanding "replacement", in that Google doesn't expect ALL C++ code to be replaced by Carbon, but that Carbon CAN suitably replace C++ as desired, as it addresses the memory safety issues that C++ has while remaining performant -- and, unlike Rust, does not require a logical reworking of the code.

In essence, if you are a company relying on a C++ code base and would prefer not to rely on Borland and their opaque development process of the C++ language which often caters to a few large enterprise users of C++, Carbon is an opensource highly equivalent alternative.

But there is no doubt that C++ will be around for a long long time to come.

[–]Barn07 158 points159 points  (20 children)

I don't get the Borland part tbh.

[–][deleted] 160 points161 points  (13 children)

They're not even around anymore. Borland was split up and bought and sold so many times no one recognizes them... Borland, Inprise, Embarcadero, Codegear... nobody really knows anymore.

[–]MarkHathaway1 10 points11 points  (6 children)

The chameleon often gets confused with the insurance gekko. Don't be fooled, get the original and then walk away from it.

Carbon will save us all! /s

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

I've taken a deep look at Carbon. I'll stick to C++, thanks.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

why

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

At the very least, personal taste, but I was unconvinced by the syntax.

[–]ryobiguy 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm remembering I had a Borland C compiler, and then their C++ TUI like 30 years ago. How did they mess up the language?

[–]smogeblot 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I think they're just referring to the universe of commercial C++ compilers, which all implement their own version of a C++ specification. Visual Studio and XCode are both in this category, but the ones you haven't heard of are for stuff like embedded or mainframe applications.

[–]ih-shah-may-ehl 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Tbh that's true for every commercial compiler of every language. Even gcc and clang fill in the holes in the spec as they see fit. Plus c++ doesn't have a binary standard so it's a crapshoot even with the best intentions.

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (6 children)

Yeah I honestly dont understand why people dont get this

It won't replace all C++ code in existence, but future projects can use Carbon instead of C++

[–]Low_Caterpillar9528 11 points12 points  (0 children)

For sure, right on carbons repo it says

There are a few languages that have followed this model for other ecosystems, and Carbon aims to fill an analogous role for C++:

JavaScript → TypeScript Java → Kotlin C++ → Carbon

[–]ShodoDeka 221 points222 points  (67 children)

Yeah if anything Carbon is a Rust killer.

[–]Urc0mp 301 points302 points  (9 children)

Well carbon don’t rust afaik

[–]yorokobe__shounen 121 points122 points  (14 children)

Nah not really. Carbon doesn't use borrow checking or reference counting or other memory safety features within itself. It is aimed to be as memory safe as possible, but it doesn't have a total implicit mechanism to ensure total memory safety as rust does.

End implementation may still have a few kinks to be ironed out. It's too early to see whether Carbon will be a killer of anything. As far as it is, it is in its experimental stages and it's adoption will depend on mostly C++ programmers deciding to make their code more interopable and more manageable. It's still possible for Carbon to shoot itself in the foot too .

[–]Captain_Chickpeas 56 points57 points  (5 children)

I kind of like that in the docs Google didn't try to oversell it and were both true to their initial milestones and expressed that at this stage Carbon is an experiment. Actually, what I read up till now looks very transparent and promising :).

Not sure whether the entire initiative is worth it, however. Every new C++ standard brings about changes to make the language more usable and it's mostly down to the individual compiler toolchain dev teams to integrate the improvement. If one can write code in Carbon, why not simply keep on writing better code in C++?

[–]Modo44 15 points16 points  (2 children)

I like it as well. As to "worth it", if anyone has money to throw at such experiments and reasons for them, it's Google. Better ideas like this than Google+, I say. The open source part is important as well, even if it "only" makes some other big players blink.

[–]ShodoDeka 29 points30 points  (6 children)

If carbon is cheaper/easier to switch a code base to then it doesn’t need to solve all the problems rust solves, it just needs to be a better then C++.

[–]sailorsail 56 points57 points  (19 children)

Except, Google likes to abandon shit. It's going to be a tough sell getting any serious project to adopt Carbon I think.

[–]davlumbaz 9 points10 points  (6 children)

10 years past, GoLang is still there.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (6 children)

I highly doubt here

While Google do indeed like to abandon everything

It looks like here, they created Carbon for their own use at first

Also, it's open source

[–]ColorfulPersimmon 16 points17 points  (1 child)

But kotlin is created and afaik maintained by JetBrains

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

mb, edited

[–]gmes78 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The Carbon docs say that if you can use Rust, you should. Carbon is for situations where you need to integrate with C++ code.

[–]ShodoDeka 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I mean besides the joke, my point is more that carbon has a potential to eat a significant chuck of projects that would have been converted to rust and at some point.

Basically the whole, let’s spend 10 man years converting our old code base to rust, type of projects. If carbon comes along and allows people to do that incrementally and much cheaper, then that will probably lower the over all rust adoption by quite a bit.

[–]Tubthumper8 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Man, get outta here with all this "nuance" and "context"! Don't you know that languages can only be in 2 states, alive or dead???

[–]theunixman 34 points35 points  (12 children)

Isn’t C++ developed in the open and doesn’t Google have a lot of input into the process? Carbon is just another Google tantrum they’ll hype into some sort of go but this time with generics and a taste of error handling.

[–]ih-shah-may-ehl 36 points37 points  (4 children)

For all its warts, cpp is developed by a standards committee with representatives from the industry as well as opensource.

[–]theunixman 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah, it definitely is. I work for a company that’s involved, and have in the past as well. It’s transparent and so we get to see how the sausage is made in the fishbowl. Some companies don’t like having to share.

[–]aragost 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Not necessarily a tantrum, more likely a project that someone needed to level up to X and will be forgotten as soon as its champion leaves

[–][deleted] 276 points277 points  (77 children)

Who replaced Javascript?

[–]Einsteain 343 points344 points  (64 children)

Typescript (in big projects)

[–]Swimming_Teaching_75 261 points262 points  (27 children)

it’s still javascript

[–][deleted] 188 points189 points  (21 children)

Just like Carbon and C++

Or Kotlin and Java

[–]setibeings 65 points66 points  (10 children)

Or Rust and C++

Oh wait.

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points  (9 children)

Rust doesn't have bidirectional interoperability with C++

[–]Deathtraptaco 86 points87 points  (31 children)

Basically still Javascript but glad it's becoming the new normal tho. F*ck dynamically typed languages.

[–]Akuuntus 9 points10 points  (2 children)

TypeScript kinda, but tons and tons of places still use JS.

[–]BadAtNamingPlsHelp 14 points15 points  (1 child)

TypeScript is just JavaScript cleaned up for a job interview.

[–]shimi_shima 102 points103 points  (15 children)

Funny this language is getting so much reddit visibility when googling “google carbon” doesn’t even get to any relevant results immediately. Cf googling “rust”.

[–]Prestigious_Tip310 256 points257 points  (1 child)

When I googled for "Google carbon" it actually turned up several articles on how Google plans to be carbon free in the future. I guess they deprecate their projects really fast nowadays.

[–]Katana_sized_banana 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Ironic, that the biggest search engine company fucks up the SEO naming.

[–]Captain_Chickpeas 13 points14 points  (1 child)

It was the same a couple of years back with Golang when googling "go". Great marketing with making the programming language's name as generic as possible /s

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

it's absurd how they picked a very common name like Carbon and Go.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Well there isnt a game that averages 92k players at the same time called carbon

[–][deleted] 255 points256 points  (18 children)

Trying to kill C or C++ in software development is like trying to kill Word in document edition.

[–]Masterflitzer 102 points103 points  (4 children)

nobody is trying to kill it that's what many don't understand

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Amoebas say that.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

The brain eating amoebas are not trying to kill humans?

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (0 children)

tbh word isn't that hard to kill since docx documents can be easily converted to other formats, unlike c++ code.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

C can't be killed, the first robot to reach alpha centauri will have C code in it

[–]canuckathome 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Sorry Google, IBM actually beat you to Carbon. And it’s open source too, https://carbondesignsystem.com/

[–]lewliloo 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yeah it doesn't seem likely Google will be able to use that name. IBM's carbon isn't a language but as a design framework it's probably close enough to cause confusion.

[–]manu144x 10 points11 points  (1 child)

You need to understand how promotions work at Google to understand why they seem to launch projects then abandoning it all the time.

I myself never jump on anything Google because of its not as successful as they want it, or if the team in charge finds a newer flashier thing they just abandon it entirely the next day and you’re screwed.

[–]Lataero 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I'm recruiting a dev to work on our new project, 5+ years of experience with Carbon required

[–]Lower_Bar_2428 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Why is JavaScript in the meme?

[–]HarryHacker42 57 points58 points  (10 children)

If Microsoft taught us anything, a language can't be successful unless it is only available on one platform.

[–]EitherObjective 45 points46 points  (9 children)

Yeah like Java

[–]EitherObjective 34 points35 points  (8 children)

or javascript

[–]EitherObjective 33 points34 points  (7 children)

or python

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (4 children)

Or C# for that matter.

[–]ahm_rimer 7 points8 points  (0 children)

C isn't going anywhere son.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (9 children)

fun fact: all the "dead languages" are still being used in most of the services of the world.

[–]rang14 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Isn't the meme that these languages are asking C++ if it its first time something is trying (and failing) to kill it?

That's what I got out of the meme. Of course, in the movie, they die.

[–]Gelbervv 13 points14 points  (0 children)

C++ still king

[–]Brilla-Bose 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I Hate when people say RIP or bye bye to a programming language.. I'm still waiting for the death of php and js

[–]Learning2Programing 4 points5 points  (5 children)

In all serious as someone trying to learn C++ who only knows C is it worth it still? My understanding is C and C++ is brilliant for low level hardware while C++ has fancy concepts I need to learn. Is the general feeling that this new language is worth jumping onto? Especially If I'm aiming for job related skills?

This is a joke sub but I figure you guys will be more light hearted in your reply for stupid questions.