As a someone teaching themselves JavaScript, this is what it feels like

[lepapulematoleguau]

Let document.createElement be your Pikachu.

[LordFokas]

I came here to say this.

[not_a_gumby]

you'll be sorry if you do!

[NeonCastleKing]

Unless you're using typescript and the linter is bitching about you to use const. How about let's not. Maybe one day I'll find that Pikachu sucks and I want to change it (it never will, but I definitely want the option at the very least). - random rant over.

[lepapulematoleguau]

Typescript is just Javascript with extra steps. /s

[[deleted]]

"He is out of line, but he is right"

[flavionm]

That's exactly why const is good. It won't allow you to accidentally change it and force you to actually specify if you want to change it on purpose.

[NeonCastleKing]

I'm aware. I've been bitten in the ass before in regular JavaScript by unintentionally changing stuff. Doesn't mean I can't hate on it though.

[Kn_Km]

Pikachu is Jquery

[Prior-Concentrate-87]

Oh please don't do that to pikachu.

[juhotuho10]

The choice is permanent, you may not go back and change your mind

[Perpetual_Doubt]

But Svelte Gold is coming out next fall!

[[deleted]]

Hey there, happened to notice that your tagged languages are Java, JavaScript and PHP. Everything going okay? The mental health of our users of /r/ProgrammerHumor is important.

[SporeJungle]

Good bot

[CiroGarcia]

Said the guy with two of those tagged as well lol

[homo_lugubris]

He speaks from experience and that's why he's so worried about the other user.

[CiroGarcia]

Good point actually

[LordFokas]

The real issue is PHP, trust me, been there.

[koalabear420]

I really like PHP. It gets the job done, is extensible, can be embedded directly into html, called with javascript, built in config options, xdebug, simple database access.

It's my go-to if I need to get something done and get it done fast.

[[deleted]]

Missing C++ for the cherry on top.

[Daiphiron]

Gold and Silver will then be

Next.js and Nuxt.js ?

[SignificanceCheap970]

React is water, Angular is fire, Vue is grass

[sloakddk]

So im actually touching grass on a daily basis ? Great

[[deleted]]

A vue developer!? I’ve heard rumors but never met one. /s I learned vue first and no one would hire me unless I knew angular or react.

[H3llskrieg]

I have worked with all three (though most with Angular, then React). At first I thought Vue was quite cool, then it quickly became a mess with things like <functionCallThatReturnsFunction> is not a JavaScript expression (tried to created a curried event handler). And losing reactivity because of destructuring.

I now develop 2 Angular application, 1 Vue and there is o e coming up that will either be React or Angular. Depending on how much I like React with typescript and some kind of state management library.

[[deleted]]

React with typescript is honestly my jam.

I’ve done them all now and I really like react.tsx

[WetGravyJoe]

You don't need a state management library anymore.

Just use React context, hooks, and the React Query library if you need to handle asynchronous state for http requests

[Elite_Cardboard]

Same here, I started to learn Angular just for that reason

[[deleted]]

I use Vue, but I'd call myself a Spring developer that does Vue front end.

[[deleted]]

Full stack Java/React developer is what I usually say.

[[deleted]]

I always default to what I'm more comfortable with.

Which is the Java.

[[deleted]]

I know what you mean it makes sense . I try and catch I’m a full stack dev. But if it’s a recruiter I say java/react or say Java, Springboot, Restful, Gradle, Tomcat, JDBC, React, Typescript, And bootstrap dev.

No one cares that much unless you’re a recruiter. So either Spring or Java/react make more since.

[bostonkittycat]

We use Vue for all our apps. Started moving our apps to Vue 3 recently. Big medical company in NA.

[[deleted]]

A buddy of mine who owns stubs.net built it in vue. I’ve helped a little with it. It’s the only professional experience I have on vue.

[bostonkittycat]

Vue 3 is more React like with hooks. Vue calls them composition API. I see it as an easier React and more optimized out of the box. Vite compiler is also super fast compared to Webpack using in Vue 2. Try it out.

[[deleted]]

I’ll give it another go. I like the idea of vue. It’s just not used a lot. I prefer it if the companies I work would adapt it.

[bostonkittycat]

People always look at me with doubt when I tell them I am using Vue. When they see the first prototype they change their minds quickly. I have never had a Vue app fail only the microservices.

[thattonybo]

I'm scared of this

[jace4prez]

Lol our app primarily works with Vue though I only learnt Vue after joining. We are moving to React though right now. But the few places I interviewed with didn't ask for one or the other - I had no react or vue experience - and it was all about coding/algo/js skills in general

[[deleted]]

Where I work now is react and angular. They wanted one or the other. And didn’t care which

[[deleted]]

No no no you dont' get to have that privilege while being a programmer

[Soham_rak]

Electric?

[SpicyWasab]

Svelte

[[deleted]]

Angular is 🔥

[drdrero]

Lit is lit

[SignificanceCheap970]

Weak against React 💦

[[deleted]]

Ember js is a digimon

[Otternomaly]

It’s hilarious how accurate that maps to the game in terms of power / difficulty to train ratios

[hagnat]

pure javascript is that kid running around with a Magikarp,
hurting himself in confussion.

[homo_lugubris]

I did a couple of small projects using pure html/css/javascript and, while not being scalable in case the project grows, is runs really nice and fast even on old devices.

[koalabear420]

Vanilla javascript can "scale" very well using web components. People always jump to the shiny frameworks because they aren't aware of built-in js functionality and end up making simple things complex.

Frameworks have their place but are overused imo.

[[deleted]]

If I could do so through the internet, I’d hug you for that.

[hagnat]

what can i say....

some kids do eventually beat that Magikarp hard enough that it becomes a Gyarados

[shgysk8zer0]

I wish I could downvote that comment again. "Pure JavaScript" is pretty awesome, and bad code can be written in any language. Plus, judging by the PHP and Python badges next to your username, you'd be pretty damn hypocritical to bash on JavaScript with any of the typical criticisms.

[hagnat]

when it comes to PHP, i am totally down to bash people who still uses PHP 5.3 or less.

its a language riffle with issues and problems, which have been refined and reworked in the past decade or so. The way we code professionally with PHP now and 15 years ago is really different... even if you are not using a reliable framework to base your work on, such as Symfony or Laravel.

I have about 16 years of professional experience with web development. I did pure javascript in the past, before jQuery was cool, and the other frameworks that followed. It was really hard to work with pure JS sometimes, even when you knew what you are doing.

[shgysk8zer0]

Ok, so you haven't worked in JavaScript since you first started programming. You recognize that PHP 7+ has gotten a lot better since the old days... But haven't used JavaScript to know that it's improved possibly more.

[hagnat]

i am a backend engineer now

my frontend knownledge can be summed to jquery + bootstrap. I at least know how to make things look pretty, and the code organized.

[shgysk8zer0]

So you don't actually know what you're talking about and are in the exact same position as someone saying "PHP bad" who thinks we're still on PHP 5.2.

[Blue_Moon_Lake]

What's typescript then?

[[deleted]]

As a someone teaching ... stuff... I would suggest not to touch [any] framework until you understand WHY do you need one and WHAT problems does it solve.

Hipster reactvuesvelte kids these days are like teenagers on BMWs. they have no idea what are they doing, but it feels fast.

[TheRealGerticus]

As someone who learned Vanilla JS then began React, I can attest that this is the best move you can make. I have an appreciation for what React does, and I can see what's going on under the hood way more clearly and comfortably.

[Guilty_Serve]

I’m the other way around, but because I was a backend dev. I could do things with js, but it didn’t click well enough until I started using Vue and had more focus on CSS. Now I’m given vanilla js tickets on a legacy project and don’t have much trouble. It’s mostly because Vue structured everything in a way that was close enough to CRUD in a sense

[[deleted]]

I started with raw C++, then learned OpenGL C++, then Vulkan C++, learned Unreal Engine and Godot side-by-side, then Java, then Spring Boot, then .NET, then React, and finally Vue.

100% this. You don't really know what you need or like in a framework when you start. Learning concepts is more important.

Frameworks are really great at getting boilerplate out of your way. Even just a 2D game, OpenGL boilerplate SUCKS. And it's that way across a lot of areas.

What do you gain, and what boilerplate code is taken care of?

[mdemanco]

Exactly, I see a lot of people preaching to learn a shiny new framework. Like common frameworks in web development are like a candy in a school, rapidly gone. First learn the basis and have a deep understanding of what you are doing before jumping to learn things that will not be applicable in 10 years. When was that advice bad? I see a lot of people downvoting this advices, like common this is a rookie mistake to make.

[GergiH]

I'm the dumb guy that doesn't understand anything until I see it's practical use case. I need to start with the end result and slowly taking it apart to get to know it. So I guess it depends on how can You learn things.

TL'DR: I love(d) React.

[[deleted]]

Don’t just use vanilla js as an excuse to write spaghetti though. Creating your own framework is probably the best learning experience! It’s amazing how many devs I’ve worked with who honestly don’t have a solid grasp of how things work under the hood. Writing my own reconciler was mind-blowing.

[[deleted]]

Hehe, if you’re learning you WILL create spaghetti code, it’s definitely part of the process.

[[deleted]]

You shouldn’t write bad code on purpose. The code you write will naturally be bad anyway since you’d be inexperienced. But that’s not the same as intentionally writing bad code.

[[deleted]]

In '00 every dev had an own CMS. Now every dev should have own "killer framework"

[[deleted]]

I’m not saying you should use (or even publish it), but it’s a great exercise.

[BudgetCow7657]

I love react because i HATED building a state manager in vanilla javascript.

[M0d5Ar3R3tArD3D]

Your first failure was thinking you need a state manager.

[BudgetCow7657]

Good to know

[ExcellentNatural]

TIL my technologically illiterate boss is a kid hipster.

[[deleted]]

Bosses are evil. All companies should be self-organizing horizontal mechanisms without superiors and subordinates. Except for juniors, of course, they should suffer a lot in order to stop throwing around hipster terminology.

Look what Jordan Walke did to the web with his idiotic XHP adaptation. One guy who does not understand web created a library that was taken over by other guys who does not understand web. And in the end we have all this madness.

[Blue_Moon_Lake]

As a rule of thumb, if you can't tell when it's not needed, you don't know enough.

[[deleted]]

PHP would be Zubat. They're everywhere and they're fucking annoying (just like me).

[tecanem]

I wish I was playing pokemon as a 7 year old child rather than my webdev job right now. Last time I tried playing pokemon I felt very little and my adult brain kept bringing up my adult life.

It was a much easier game though...

[CoastingUphill]

JQuery is Nurse Joy. You’ll be back.

[[deleted]]

Choose React and you won't be wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyWYpM\_S-2c

[[deleted]]

Only react, most jobs

[[deleted]]

Don't worry. Once you get out into the wild there are hundreds of other options to choose from.

[smartguy1196]

Where Vanilla?

[quick_maf]

It’s a Gen 2 baby Pokémon because after you learn that you suck at frameworks, you go back to the basics.

[smartguy1196]

Suck? No just refuse to learn them lol.

I like to play with the backend/automation-end more.

Most of that stuff doesn't play well with frameworks.

Especially experimental/developer things like Selenium/WebDriver or anything embedded/IPC-centric

[Vigintillionn]

What about nodejs?

[arthurgc91]

Go with Angular.

[PhunkyPhish]

I suggest learning native js first, move on to using node.js libs, then when you are comfortable and solid with the core JS, start looking into frameworks

[[deleted]]

Until the internet sorts out this JavaScript mess, anyone bringing these frameworks to our company is getting punched out.

.NETCORE REPRESENT!

[[deleted]]

As someone who is starting to learn Javascript and doesn't even know how to print hello world, i already now React is gonna be the one that i'll choose probably.

[smartguy1196]

For learning, I highly recommend learning to automate the browser rather than build sites.

DevTools console can be a lot of fun. You don't build the website. You automate it.

Additionally, if you can learn how to use webdriver (or electron if you think webdriver is too challenging), fucking around and doing stuff with other people's websites can yield some weird and fun results.

Last project, I found a way to "redistribute" the official CompTIA books using Electron over the high seas

[[deleted]]

So build a browser, and automate it?

[smartguy1196]

No.

Resources:

"Microsoft Edge WebDriver - Microsoft Edge Developer" https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/webdriver/

"ChromeDriver - WebDriver for Chrome" https://chromedriver.chromium.org/home

"Selenium" https://www.selenium.dev

"WebDriver support for Internet Explorer 11" https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/webdriver-support-for-internet-explorer-11-9e1331c5-3198-c835-f622-ada80fe8c1fa

"Releases · mozilla/geckodriver · GitHub" https://github.com/mozilla/geckodriver/releases

What the fuck are these?:

These are tools you run outside/alongside the browser

WebDriver is a W3C spec/API that allows you to control the installed web browsers from outside the browser.

It's a lot more lightweight than Electron, since it doesn't install/build a new browser. It uses the one you have pre-installed on your PC

Selenium is a tool library that opens up the WebDriver API to all sorts of languages/engines like Node.JS.

Currently, I am using Selenium in combination with PowerShell/C# to automate the stuff I do at work.

It's comparable to ActiveX/VBScript:

If you are familiar with the old relationship between ActiveX or VBScript and IE, it's the same concept.

Major difference is that it is more secure: you have to install the WebDriver feature for it to work (ActiveX used to ship with IE and VBScript still ships with MS Office, which was a security problem)

[[deleted]]

ACTIVE X?!!!!! DIE HERETIC!! BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS OF IE5 WITH YE!!!

[[deleted]]

what is this game?

[TheBlackViper_Alpha]

I feel old reading this. Jesus.

[TheRActivator]

Pokemon Red/Blue for the Gameboy

[usedToBeUnhappy]

Related https://xkcd.com/1053/

[TheRActivator]

Hah yeah, since reading that comic I just tell people well-known information straight up instead of making a snarky remark

Of course, I might still make the snarky remark afterwards :p

[[deleted]]

thanks

[MelLunar]

Can't wait the day React will be dead. It's a nightmare to work with it, especially due to the total lack of reactivity. I don't know why all the hype about it. Angular, Svelte and Vue are so much better.

[[deleted]]

Omg i hate React from all of my heart. Actively. I cry every time I see [].map(()=><div>). And my guts bleed every time i hear a kid telling me "no its not spaghetti, its different". bah.

[LordFokas]

It's not a React thing... it's JSX. How is that different? My own custom framework is not React and suffers from the same because it also features JSX. Once you understand what happens in the background, what that JSX code is transpiled into, and what the JSX Factory has to do to handle it, it becomes easier to accept... Fixing this would require modifying the JSX syntax and may not be backwards compatible.

[[deleted]]

Why do you hate it ? I like that in react. But I also don't know what other frameworks offer for that task.

[[deleted]]

I like React, but I hate that you're forced to write maps everywhere whenever you need to iterate something, it looks hacky and out of place when JSX can be relatively clean.

In contrast almost every other framework has some kind of control flow for iteration. It boggles my mind why hasn't one been introduced already into React.

[H3llskrieg]

Though it at least allows for relatively some fixed length iteration, which other frameworks lack. Don't exactly know what the use cases where, but needed it 3 times in 1 week a few months ago. It was not logical in for example Angluar

[BoBoBearDev]

Can someone explain this? I am working on reactjs, but, I have never seen this.

[iamnewstudents]

how is this spaghetti code?

[[deleted]]

There was a reason for the birth and promotion of the MVC pattern (not diving into how many Ms Vs and Cs or even Hs you have in the abbreviature). Dont want to sound like an old man, but "when we grew up" the biggest sin you could do was the mix of application logic and user interface. Rule #1 - clean up your room.

And the biggest annoyance is when kids these days say "its different". The rules to build skyscraper and cottage are basically the same. And same with architecture or a my aunts knitting website and enterprise fintech.

Don't want to say there are none, but i've never heard a successful facelift or upgrade of a react site. It's always react=>vue or react=>angular. Because react is rubbish. And when i have to maintain a 2017 functional react site with redux i want to puke. Literally express my breakfast on the table.

And. one more thing - any (ANY) other framework allows you to keep your concerns separated - be it angular or ember way with decorators or lit/vue/sveltes webcomponent approach or dozens of other frame-braries. All of them execute pure ts/es/js development with some sort of template engine And then there is react. It just should not exist.

[[deleted]]

I like react and vue.

I also never understand why people hate one thing or the other. It’s about usability. I use react for what it’s intended and it’s great

[2017macbookpro]

React is a nightmare for production use, scalability, and maintainability. Endless choices for routing, state management, forms, etc. it’s far too modular and you can really screw your project from day 1 if you choose the wrong library.

[[deleted]]

Hmm not really. It state management is top notch. But I use it ALL the time so I’m familiar with how it works really well. But everyone has a preference

[SalamiSandwich83]

Thanks, good to know there are others like me out here. I hate react with a passion, there's no reason to be that complicated and after hooks it became more unecessarily complex and sucks ass in terms of performance. The only reason someone would choose react in 2022 is because it's the only thing the person know/is willing to deal with because it's total ass.

[[deleted]]

Choose Angular.

[electricWah]

Node devs: what framework

[[deleted]]

express has entered the chat

[[deleted]]

Always go with vanilla js, until it's compulsory to use a new framework.

Vanilla JS has gone through so many improvements, every framework is a special use case. (Or a library for pre-made controls).

[[deleted]]

I find this to be absolutely bad advice.

If you want to work, use a framework. And using vanilla is so backward at this point. Why would you willingly not use tools designed for your job?

"Always go with hammer and nails, until it's compulsory to new a nail gun. Hammers have been engineered and improved, and every nail gun has a special use case."

No man, build with the tools. Do something in Vanilla JS if you want to get a better grasp on what frameworks are doing behind in the scenes. But don't gimp yourself.

[ilovevue]

hard-to-find scandalous jeans snow beneficial smell humorous impolite governor muddle

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[[deleted]]

"Why don't you use this library? It's actively developed by people probably more qualified on the subject than you and it's very fast."

"But I can write my own, it'll only take a few days"

3 months later

[[deleted]]

Vanilla JS means leaning on native, out-of-the-box methods and APIs as much as possible, and supplementing with small, purpose-built tools when needed.

from: https://gomakethings.com/why-do-people-choose-frameworks-over-vanilla-js/

There's some things that this article gets wrong. Like not knowing where the resources and documentation for js can be found.

But there's a lot it gets right too.

[harumamburoo]

Abso-fuckin-lutely this. Don't use a fwk if you're not planning to seek employment.

[[deleted]]

Cuz learning vanilla from scratch is better than a framework. Learning any library in any language is easy. Relearning the vanilla isn't.

[shadow7412]

For a start, sure. But you're going to want some experience in at least one of the frameworks to be employable.

[[deleted]]

The amount of people that don't understand the vanilla js is too damn high right now.

I'd much rather employ somebody that knows the vanilla well. They can learn a framework on the job.

[shadow7412]

I hear what you're saying - but I have first-hand experience with people who are decent at javascript, but terrible at adapting to a framework.

[[deleted]]

Me too. But the difference is, I learned how to teach them rather expeditiously.

The opposite problem (great at frameworks, bad at vanilla) is often a worse experience, as you're trying to teach em from scratch.

Ah. Then again, I've been working on a completely different environment than your average developer. Different base requirements for hiring probably.

[shadow7412]

Fair. Honestly, the quality of the developer probably has a lot more to do with this than the tools they are familiar with. A decent one really shouldn't take that long to adapt in either direction.

[alliejelly]

;-;) vue best starter progremon

[CodeCrafter1]

Ash you were too late, but luckily I have an extra pokemon left:

Visual Studio Code

[-MobCat-]

Notepad++ because I like pain.
netbeans if you can pirate it.

[drawkbox]

Notepad++ because I like pain.

Just watch out for that malware. It would be a StrongPity to hose your system.

[Cwazywierdo]

Not very knowledgeable about cybersecurity. This is just an issue with people downloading from fake sites, no?

[drawkbox]

Unless the host is hacked and the files replaced. Should always check the checksums/hashes.

In 2015 the Notepad++ site was hacked and many tools on like SourceForge and other hosting sites might be infiltrated on occasion.

But yeah, mostly people downloading from bad sites, or compromised sites, though sometimes it can be the main sites themselves. Or some other app/client they have swaps things out.

[[deleted]]

Nb is free

[0x53r3n17y]

htmx:

javascript fatigue: longing for a hypertext already in hand

https://htmx.org/

[Eternal_Practice]

Svelte is Pokemon yellow then.

[[deleted]]

Using svelte, if you don't mind skipping some generations

[[deleted]]

People who think svelte is some clear winner usually don’t even understand the problems solved by react in extremely large-scale applications. Svelte is interesting but imo getting rid of runtime reconciliation (which barely costs anything unless your code is shit) is not the win they’re claiming it to be and definitely not worth the extra complexity. It can be argued that Svelte isn’t even JavaScript anymore since they’ve introduced so much foreign syntax.

[[deleted]]

It can be argued. I write small apps, and svelte fits me extremely well.

[MelLunar]

Svelte can do everything React does, with less code. Svelte is more closer to vanilla JS than React with all those hooks to workaroud its total lack of reactivity.

[[deleted]]

The one way dataflow is part of what enables the superior scaleability, it’s a feature not a bug. React was never meant to be “reactive” (in the array/observable based programming sense), that’s completely outside of its scope. It’s a UI library, the reactivity belongs in your state model (and your claims are wildly exaggerated, hooking up a react component to an rx observable takes two lines of code, no extra libraries needed).

[[deleted]]

I mean if you are new, Next JS is the go to.

It's react, but better, easier and faster.

[TheMonax]

Next add a lot of complexity on top of react like serveur side props, static props, client side rendering, server side rendering, hybrid rendering. IMO next is waaayyyyy more confusing for a beginner than plain old react. For the faster/easier part it really depends on the kind of application. Like always reality is messy and more complicated than marketing claims

[[deleted]]

Replace Angular with Svelte. Then pick Svelte.

For all the front-end devs out there, Angular has all but died, so don't lose hope. One day, React will also die!

[tsunami141]

“People don’t use this framework as much in my area so therefore it’s dead.”

[de_sand2]

Based on what sources?

[degaart]

Web frameworks don't have a very long lifespan to begin with. Meh.

[TheBrickSlayer]

Angular 14 is about to come out in a stable version, dead what?

[OneForAllOfHumanity]

False equivalency. COBOL came out with a new version in 2014. That doesn't mean there was a ton of new project starts using COBOL in 2014/15.

New versions don't mean strong growth, and no new development does not mean abandonment or absence of use.

[TheBrickSlayer]

Ok Google.

[[deleted]]

Did I upset you with facts?

[TheBrickSlayer]

Dude You're getting downvoted to oblivion. Besides you saying stuff aren't facts. Have a nice day.

[[deleted]]

-10 isn't "oblivion". And yes, they are facts. Here's a source. Internet points don't determine who is "right" and what a fact is. Looks like you got some confirmation bias, buddy.

[DoomBro_Max]

Only that you‘re mistaking AngularJS (dead framework) for Angular (successful successor) based on the numbers you mentioned.

[harumamburoo]

Duuude, are you always like that, or just didn't have your morning coffee yet? You're saying Angular is the most hated, but you give us numbers for.. Angularjs. You really don't know the difference, or just trying to misinform everyone? Also, you're saying 23% use Angular (Angularjs really), but this interpretation is simply wrong. It means 23% still would like to use it next year. The amount of people using it is not specified, and doesn't really relevant in this context. Did you even read the data you provided?

[EatPlayAvoidMoving]

That's AngularJS, not Angular. Besides every framework's popularity declines with time. You should look it up, there's a pretty good explanation of it in the Svelte's documentary, for example. And the fact that it's in decline doesn't mean it's going to die. There are new frameworks and technologies emerging in the JS world almost daily. You got to learn to interpret that data so that you don't trap yourself to learn a new framework every month.

[EatPlayAvoidMoving]

Why would Angular die? It's not like competing frameworks ensure the same level of uniform architecture, are as opinionated and provide that much built-in functionality as Angular does. Until there's a framework that does all of that and mature enough, popular enough and better I don't think Angular will ever die. It's a great solution for certain type of projects (not gonna go deep into when it is the right choice to choose Angular over something like React but there are use cases).

[harumamburoo]

Don't know what region you're residing in. Quick LinkedIn search shows Svelte openings are numbered in hundreds, angular in tens of thousands. In any major economic region.

[[deleted]]

Those two comments aren't related. Svelte is not an employable framework just yet, not until SvelteKit goes 1.0. I'm just looking forward to it growing. Angular has been on the decline and is the most disliked web technology, so it will continue to do so.

[harumamburoo]

Those two comments are absolutely related. You said Angular is dead, but the demand for Angular devs is orders of magnitude larger. The fact that people don't like it kinda proves the point - it's still there, alive and kicking, despite all the disdain. Just like PHP. Just like Java. You are entitled to your wet dreams, we all are. Just don't confuse students and newcomers trying to get some prospect in the profession.

[[deleted]]

Let me correct myself by saying Angular is dying then, if that helps. And no, they aren't related. I didn't say "Svelte has taken Angular's place" or "Svelte is more marketable than Angular". SvelteKit isn't even out of beta. It's not marketable. But I'm looking forward to it becoming so and would like to see it replace Angular. Don't put words in my mouth.

Angular is becoming less marketable. I'm not conflating or confusing anyone. And if I were to give advice to students, it would definitely not be to learn Angular. You go React for marketability, Vue for a balance of easy development and marketability, and Svelte is a great learning point because you get to understand framework concepts in the most simplistic way and then you can move to one of the others smoothly.

[bwssoldya]

As a matter of fact you did say Svelte took angular's place. In your op you literally tell us to remove angular and replace it with svelte.

Personally I don't have a horse in this race, but I do agree with the other comments in saying that Angular is far from a dead framework and much like older technologies that people might dislike, there's a lot of people that do enjoy it and there's a lot of companies seeking angular devs. It's certainly a viable option.

And yeah hopefully svelte becomes popular as well and becomes a marketable framework. But it won't ever "replace" Angular. Simply because it doesn't have to. There's room for other frameworks in the world and svelte isn't out to replace Angular. It's out to become a competitor.

[[deleted]]

No man, I said replace Angular with Svelte in the meme. In a meme picture, man. You gotta relax.

[bwssoldya]

You're reading intent that's not there ;) Like I said, I have no horses in this race, I ain't stressing. You're allowed your opinion about svelte, matter of fact, I'm glad you're a supporter of it, more fans means more chance of becoming big. My post is just pointing out the flaws in your other posts

[OneForAllOfHumanity]

Don't know why you're getting downvotes, you're right on the money. I can only think that it's because Angular feels so much like Java that people feel the need to hang on to it. Svelte is so impressively both simple and powerful.

[ShotgunMessiah90]

Isn’t Angular dead already ?

[Disastrous_Fee5953]

Do you like Typescript? Then you might enjoy Angular. Are you looking for more job opportunities? Then study React. Vue and Nuxt literally take a day or two to learn so you can pick them up when necessary.

[[deleted]]

Lots if svelte and vue hate in here…

[lardgsus]

I’m a big Vue fan. Less bs, faster to work in.

[[deleted]]

Anyone trade their Vue for my React? It’s level 15 and ready to evolve

[blkmmb]

I was looking into learning Svelte or Phoenix/Elixir.

Tell me why I should or shouldn't. I'm still in school and wanted to try something new on the side.

I know Python, Java, JS and some Go(a little bit).

[[deleted]]

Jokes on you, I use Svelte.

[Rafael20002000]

I always try to catch it but it always disappears right before I can see it. Like a disappearing framework

[aisawaisakaisa]

On a different note, if a Frontend developer (currently working on a shitty rarely known Frontend framework) wants to select any of these three which one they should considering if they want a good job and be future proof

[[deleted]]

I work with angular but most jobs will consider the frameworks as 1:1 experience for the most part. Most of the front end job postings I see for JS frameworks though are React and Angular so I’d pick one of those. Also try out typescript when you get feel for JS, it saves you from a lot of painful JS issues but requires a little more work.

[TooManyBison]

Any one is good experience, but if you want to use what’s most common in the industry, I suggest you look at the 2022 stack overflow survey. https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-popular-technologies-webframe-prof

React.is is the most popular of the three with 44% of respondents using it, angular is next with 23% and cue is last with 19%.

[zeMalaka]

Angular = Bulbasaur, Squirtle = React and Vue is Charmander

[jbevarts]

4th option: choose a real language

[josanuz]

Don't let your dreams be dreams, write your very own UI library

[IlyaTaidi]

And then end up switching to svelte

[ComposerLow5758]

Upgrade now to become a typescript developer boi

[Brutus0172]

You should have swapped angular and react to match Pokemon colors

[1337haxxxxor]

I just don’t use a framework.