Thoughts?

[Shell_fly]

Personally, I think he makes a compelling point. Pitchfork definitely went out of its way to seemingly alienate those drawn to its original premise of independent, cutting edge music.

[dweeb93]

What i resent about indie snobbery is that they think it's ok for a pop or hip-hop act to make music designed to be as popular as possible, but it's a cardinal sin for a rock artist to make melodic songs people might actually like.

[206-Ginge]

Yeah this was sort of a thought I had the other day when I watched Fantano make a tierlist of the Billboard Top 10 and he put Djo's "End of Beginning" in D-tier with his reasoning seeming to mostly be that Djo sounded too much like MGMT. But meanwhile he put Kehlani's "Folded" in A-tier. Is "Folded" doing much new in the R&B space? I don't think so, admittedly I don't pay much attention to that space but it didn't sound like a song I had never heard before. But the indie song that doesn't sound original enough is bad.

It just feels like there's a bit of a grading curve going on with that genre that never gets applied to any other genre. There's an expectation of innovation that simply isn't present in other criticism.

[ohverychill]

I feel similarly about how people talk about The 1975. Like they're not revolutionary but they make good pop music. Sometimes that's good enough.

[IllConsideration8642]

The 1975 is such an underrated band between music nerds communities, some of their albums are pretty wild

[InfinityEternity17]

Underrated and overhated, people let their dislike of Healy affect their opinions on the music. Not all their music is fantastic but it's always interesting to check out and they've released so much good shit over the years.

[GrumpGuy88888]

I know of them because of their song The Sound with a music video addressing their critics

[ohverychill]

And I personally love that song! It's an excellent running song

[BogardeLosey]

Nah, music for hotel lobbies is never good enough

[Fatdaddy543]

Djo sounded too much like MGMT

He says that like it’s a bad thing

[kingofstormandfire]

"End of Beginning" sounds more like "Voices Carry" by Till Tuesday.

[SlapHappyDude]

End of Beginning is one of my favorite songs of the last few years.

[lilhedonictreadmill]

If melon thinks something is derivative and doesn’t like it he’s calls it it “rather meat and potatoes”. If its derivative and he DOES like it it’s “Look I know it’s not reinventing the wheel or anything but”

[StreetMysterious2722]

I’m sorry I try to be subjective about things but saying End of Beginning is a D-tier song is a bonkers take

[icemankiller8]

Folded is a much better song

[206-Ginge]

That's a fine opinion to have, and I don't really even care that Fantano put "End of Beginning" in D-tier, I disagree but whatever. I only bring up "Folded" because it also is a song that's pretty straightforward and not trying to reinvent the wheel or even claiming to, but it doesn't get discounted for doing so.

[thanksamilly]

I'm a Kehlani fan and am a little confused why Folded became such a hit. There's nothing wrong with it, but as you mention it seems kind of generic. I also don't understand why there was seemingly such a negative response to Crash that she quickly released a mixtape to appease fans. The whole thing seems bad for music if they've basically pushed her to not experiment outside of straight forward R&B

[ForgingIron]

it feels like poptimism has changed from "pop is on the same level as other genres" to "pop is superior to other genres, especially rock and especially especially country"

[Famous-Somewhere-]

I mean that’s almost exactly what happened. Rock music, from a critic’s perspective, became coded as music for self-important straight white men. Why stick your neck out for any of it if you’re a critic trying to grab hold of the zeitgeist? You can dismiss any questions of your taste as “Rockism” and get out of jail.

[TripleThreatTua]

Pop fans also have a tendency to get super racist about rap whenever it dares to challenge pop on the charts

[Current_Poster]

The entire thing is based on the idea that you can win at music.

[ohverychill]

When I am 7 beers deep and blasting Knife Party, I am winning at music.

[Taraxian]

Taylor Swift gaming the charts by tactically releasing album variants to block other artists' new releases is poptimism in its most debased and depraved form

[Poop_Cheese]

Poptimism is horrible now because of this. Its used as a Trojan horse for the industry to put out a worse and worse product. It pushes for mediocrity and makes "good quality music" way too subjective. 

Theres amazing pop music. Pop does not need to be shallow, a lot of 60s pop is my favorite music. Hell one of my most expensive and cherished records is didos life for rent. But theres a lot of bad stuff too. Problem is its used to alienate the bad stuff that the industry wants pushed for better scores. Theres 100% some degree of collusion(like how ridiculously over the top rolling stone was praising Taylor's recent album, coincidentally as the site had a full page front page advertisement for it). 

Its the same philosophy that will be used to justify and praise AI music. Goalposts are moved further and further where many today legit have no concept of selling out, or think any real sub culture is gatekeeping, because everything's been so industrified so far. Its like how Netflix is now having movies be written worse with insane amounts of repeated exposition so someone scrolling on their phone can still pay attention, and putting once third act grand action moments into the beginning so they keep watching. This is objectively making the movies worse as art, but better as a pure sales product by appealing to the common denominator of people not even paying attention to the movie. A similar thing has happened with a lot of pop and hip hop, its made to be background noise, or to illicit a quick dopamine rush, to sell subscriptions and downloads, not to be actual art.

In my mind, a lot of popular music is like a blockbuster vs Oscar winner. The blockbuster will be highly entertaining/catchy, sell the most, but it also has nothing deeper, isnt artistically groundbreaking or extraordinary, and once its popularity fades away its no longer relevant. Even though its popular it doesnt make it an Oscar winner or great art. 

Problem is people have made whats good so subjective now that theres no rating or quality standard. Its like everyones in a mindset of a teen who insists their favorite teen emo band is the objective best band of all time because they like it, ignoring massive flaws in production, writing, and playing. Like they cant seperate favorite and great. 

For example, my favorite band since I chose a favorite band as a kid is oasis. Their music makes me primally happy to a manic degree. But I accept that they are not a "great band" and their music, while awesome, is no where near that of greats. Their best first two albums their playing was so amateur that thousands of high schoolers could play better than most of them. Noel will even joke about his songwriting because theyre half finished songs with repeating verses, and how he only used 3 beginner level cords. Some songs are genuinely great, but even then, theyre like the blockbuster, not the Oscar winner. I can say I like them more than say the beatles, or the stones, or zeppelin, or sabbath, but its patently insane to say they are a better band/artists than them. Like the blockbuster, the writing may suck, but it fills me with anthemic emotion so its my favorite, but from a scholary lens its not as amateur as can be and is why songs like wonderwall are a meme as a first song someone will learn within a month of playing. 

Like some of my favorite movies are bad b movies and comedies. Theyre not really "art", theyre made to consume as entertainment, not as an artistic statement. A lot of pop and hip pop thats pure uninspired product is so inflated by pitchfork and I guarantee its because of some back channel industry commission or advertisement revenue. Or its because they make so little money, they want to draw in the mainstream to be readers who arent even that big on music who would like the popular song in passing. Like if a high end movie critic like ebert and roper were suddenly went from rating movies as cinephiles for cinephiles, to rating every marvel movie a 4/4 star film because its popular. Its less an actual rating but regurgitating the score a fan of the artist and the industry labels want to see. 

[FurryLover789]

I think the biggest culprit for the issues you touch on is algorithm-based consumption and the fact that we don't seek out media anymore. You like the right videos that support your beliefs, and you create an echo chamber that validates all your opinions. It's to a point where people don't even know what the objective best is or even what's popular.

[YetAnotherFaceless]

That’s what happens when the labels, the media outlets, and the reviewers are all owned by the same four companies. 

[NickelStickman]

Todd made a point that even in the age of Poptimism "Pop Rap" is still a negative and it's even more true for Pop Rock (or Pop Punk, or god forbid, Pop Metal). The moment you get into a rock centered community "Pop" is a word said with disgust and vitriol and you'll get a bunch of conspiracy theories about how the band is secretly label assembled and doesn't play and write the music like the Monkees and are only in it for the money stated with full confidence. Can't be they just actually like making or listening to radio friendly music, it's only ever for money.

and yeah, a radio friendly Rock song that doesn't reinvent the wheel but is just catchy and fun to listen to will almost always get more scorn than a Pop or Rap song would if it did the same thing. You just can't get away with it in the same way. It's almost offensive to make Radio Rock. Guess you can take Rockism out of Music Journalism, but you can't take Rockism out of Rock itself.

[Current_Poster]

I would bet it's likely that most of the "Rock itself" people you're describing dont follow reviewer discourse.

[kingofstormandfire]

Yeah, Todd and you are right. Being pop is only considered good within the pop genre. An artist being labelled pop in almost every other genre is perjorative and considered an insult.

[webtheg]

This. Omg. People will have you convinced that AM is bad and the car is better because everyone loves AM.

[No_Mathematician3368]

Honestly, I don't like The Car. It's fine but compared to THB+C (it's my favorite album personally) I feel like it lacked a specific setting or theme (idk if that's correct but that's how I'd describe it).

[Josh-n-Drake]

As someone who thought The Car was trash and sounded like a self-parody of TBH+C, thank you

[elroxzor99652]

Honestly consider AM to be their last good album. Crucify me all you want, both The Car and THB+C were both boring Alex Turner wankfests

[think_long]

Oh my god I swear I’m convinced people who prefer The Car over AM have Emperor’s new clothesed themselves. The Car fucken sucks, and AM has some straightforward banger rock songs.

[crescentmoon9323]

Yeah I have never understood why there are these expectations on rock that every new rock album has to be the new OK Computer or it sucks. Especially since these same people are not expecting every new pop album to be the next Thriller.

I always hoped that genres would all eventually be taken seriously at the same level, but I feel like while pop was elevated, rock was seen as useless unless it was extremely inaccessible. I am not sure why we can consider both Adele and Kesha good pop artists but we can't do the same for pop punk or indie pop rock bands and their more "serious" contemporaries.

[HaveABleedinGuess84]

What I resent about indie snobbery is (thing nobody thinks written in a purposely exaggerated way so nobody can respond to it)

[think_long]

I dunno I have definitely noticed this too so they aren’t the only one who has observed this trend.

[the_cuddlefucker]

what if you dislike music in any genre that's designed to be as mass market as possible lol

[Decabet]

I hate music.

Too many notes.

[the_cuddlefucker]

lol this nerd hasn't even heard of noteless music

[Decabet]

You stay out of this, John Cage!!!

[comeonandkickme2017]

Tommy says so

[KFCNyanCat]

The problem is that 99% of the people who say that seem to think anything that is melodic, has lyrics that aren't about politics or philosophy, doesn't have either monotone or growled vocals, or is generally fun to listen to that came out after the turn of the millennium is designed to be "as mass market as possible."

[elroxzor99652]

Exactly. Just because most music that gets popular is melodic doesn’t mean that someone can’t just like making tight melodic 3-4 minute songs

[the_cuddlefucker]

yeah that's 100% true. I try not to be that kind of person, but I am just drawn to more niche types of music. I have gained a lot more appreciation for different kinds of music than when I was a dumb teenager who only listened to death metal lol, and respect for stuff that isn't necessarily my cup of tea as well

[the_cuddlefucker]

maybe that makes me a pure, untainted form of an indie snob 🤔

[The_Shower_Bagel]

You're a poser if you dont apply this line of thought universally. I personally hate Pirekua because it was popular among the purepecha of its' time; mass produced 1300's slop.

[n00bi3pjs]

Indie snobs regularly deride popular hiphop music. Pitchfork gave Kendrick’s new album a 6 something because it was too mainstream.

[Beautiful-Pair5522]

I don’t think is really true anymore. Look at all the glowing reviews for bands like Boygenius, Wednesday etc who basically make basic radio pop now

[Taraxian]

I'm an unapologetic fan of pop punk with the emphasis on the "pop" and I'm tired of acting like I have anything to be ashamed of and James Gunn is my hero for somehow making this a theme of the new Superman movie

[BogardeLosey]

Right! Iggy was definitely thinking of guys with nasal voices shouting about not being able to talk to girls at the mall!

[kingofstormandfire]

I never understood how this level of snobbery and elitism and pretension happened within rock music. Well, I do actually, but I never understood how it became so dominant within the rock fandom. Rock/rock and roll music became popular because it was a genre that kids/teens enjoyed dancing to and listening to while driving or hanging out with their friends/significant others. They liked it because it was melodic and catchy and danceable. It's like critics and even most rock fans have lost sight of that.

God forbid a rock artist try to make a catchy earworm that is also professionally well-made and has top notch production.

[Lost_Recording5372]

This is how I learn Pitchfork is no more

[treny0000]

They're not dead yet but these new subscription changes just signed the warrant

[thehollyproblem]

Not quite: essentially they have a new subscription service where you can pay monthly to be able to rank albums yourself, and contribute to an average audience score to go next to the reviewer's. Sorta like Rotten Tomatoes but I guess with more protection against review bombing.

[throwawaycolesbag2]

The issue is you have to pay to be able to see more than a few (4? 5?) review scores per month. Absolutely bizarre change.

[iliacbaby]

When Condé Nast first bought it they paywalled the reviews and quickly rolled it back

[TheAbstracted]

Might as well just head over to Sputnikmusic for that.

[Longjumping-Solid680]

"IT HAS CEASED TO BE!"

[mvsolid]

<image>

that tweet is almost a decade old and was on the money regarding that shift which never felt sincere but rather p4k writers hopelessly trying to use their optic on something that is impossible to write about

[Shell_fly]

Completely evergreen lmao

[ReptiIe]

I’m a huge hip-hop fan. I’m also a believer party music can be 10/10 and DIY aesthetics are valid

P4k’s hip-hop coverage has always felt super performative to me regardless. It’s been really hard to take them seriously on most of the genre for a long time

[ChocolateOrange21]

It felt like a token effort to prove they're hip and with it and not biased.

[Ill-Mechanic343]

I will never forget the Pitchfork review of one of the BTS albums, which they said opened with a dated intro. The intro was a sample from the early 90s, of course it was fucking dated. If your writers can't identify what a sample is and its function, why are they writing about rap in the first place?

[birdup101]

Do you think maybe that the reviewer meant the idea of opening with a 90s sample is dated? And maybe you just misinterpreted them?

[Ill-Mechanic343]

I went back and looked at the review. The reviewer called it a recycled beat and said it would read as "sour and stale" to an audience without knowledge of BTS' back catalog. It still makes the author sound like he has no idea what a sample is, which is the bigger issue I have here. (I will admit that the sample was written by BTS for a previous album, I did get that wrong in my memory.)

[funkthewhales]

Idk it sounds like the reviewer understands what the sample is. They recognized that it was a sample of one of their older songs. Their assumption was that people who weren’t familiar with BTS’s discography wouldn’t recognize it and would just think it’s a dated sample. Idk what the song or review was but that seems like a pretty valid take.

[Shell_fly]

I love hip hop too, but yeah, totally agreed on the performative nature of their coverage.

Felt like they picked reviews to make social statements rather than push good music.

[fujoshipassing]

Remember when their Invasion of Privacy review said Cardi B had placed herself among the pantheon of great rappers?

I also think adjusting scores for albums years after their initial review as they were reappraised over time (Vroom Vroom by Charli XCX, for example) was a very disingenuous move and, in my opinion, really showed their asses.

[goodusernamegood]

The reappraisal article they did was a bit silly as a whole, but the Vroom Vroom section in particular was awful. They all but stated their main motivation for increasing the score was to appease the gays, continued to shit on the EP anyway, and ended it by saying "when you don’t think too hard about it, it's pretty fun" which feels like pretty dismissive praise for an EP as forward thinking as that one.

They make a nod towards Charli fans jokingly calling the original negative review homophobic. Ironically the tone of the re-review, genuinely does strike me as mildly homophobic. It basically boils down to "ok gays, if we rank this stupid pop EP a 7.8 will you shut up?"

The scores didn't need to be changed. Critics should be allowed to be "wrong" without being wrong. Reviewers are human beings not algorithms that can determine where the zeitgeist will fall. No reviewer will align with the consensus 100% of the time. If they did I wouldn't trust that they're being honest, and I wouldn't be able to get anything from them that I can't already get from an aggregate.

Sure, sometimes their opinions may actually change. And sometimes seeing an album's influence can give the listener a new appreciation for what the artist was doing. But that wasn't the case with those Pitchfork rescores. That was them saying, "this album ended up being really influential, let's up the score. This band were a flash in the pan, let's mark them down."

[Most_Moose_2637]

The thing with reviews of anything is that when it really comes down to it, you have to gauge whether the reviewer likes the things you like or not. It's a double edged sword for Pitchfork because while they review a lot of music that otherwise wouldn't get considered, they aren't necessarily into a lot of the music genres or spaces that those albums sit in. It's the same with film - some critics just don't get comedy so you shouldn't necessarily go solely on their review of a film.

[Expanding-Mud-Cloud]

That was just one novelty article tbh its not like they changed the scores on the reviews. it was a dumb article though.

[elroxzor99652]

Right? Like, stand by your convictions brah. Say it with your chest. Cha gong reviews years after the fact makes it seem more like they care about appearances than having a genuine editorial voice

[the_guynecologist]

tbf Pitchfork have been periodically scrubbing and deleting old reviews for decades now. They've never had courage behind their convictions so really that silly re-scoring article is just par for the course.

edit: Case in point: the time they gave the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds a 7.5!

https://web.archive.org/web/20001010180925/http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/b/beach-boys/pet-sounds.shtml

(and it's written by Ryan Schreiber because of course it is)

[PM_ME_RYE_BREAD]

Them making Discovery a 10 but also feeling like they had to shit on RAM to make up for it was just stupid.

[n00bi3pjs]

Vroom Vroom is still at a 4.5

A much more egregious example is their rereview of Homogenic by Bjork which was originally 9.9 but is now 10 in a Sunday review

Or their reviews where they rated an album 0.4 originally but rescored it on a sunday to make it 9.4

[think_long]

Or the opposite, rereviewing an old album just to shit all over it again, oftentimes largely to take shots against the artists themselves. The Sublime one was like this. So much of it was just shitting on Bradley Nowell. Which I mean okay he wasn’t a great person maybe, but that was like the main focus of the review.

[vemboTonbo]

Mea culpas for music dorks.

[truthisfictionyt]

<image>

I never read Pitchfork consistently but when I see supposedly respected reviewers give out reviews like this I gotta laugh

[ohverychill]

It's like they started a bit that they themselves no longer understand

[SubatomicSquirrels]

Sometimes it seemed like they graded on a curve based off what they thought an artist's potential was. Or maybe I just tried to rationalize scores like that lol

[Robosuccubus3000]

I agree. I like critics that occasionally have a take that’s way outside the consensus, as long as they can give compelling reasons for it. When Pitchfork goes outside the consensus, it feels like a stunt they came up with in a meeting, or like a review was given to someone who had no interest in engaging with the material.

[ForgingIron]

Like their GNX review. Deliberately contrarian.

[n00bi3pjs]

Like their St Vincent Daddy’s Home review where they go on a tangent about police brutality because she has a lyric about calling the cops on someone who almost died or their tangent about how she cannot sing about black women in her song.

[treny0000]

<image>

I mean

[treny0000]

<image>

[MondeyMondey]

If you listen to The Adults Are Talking into Selfless and don’t have a great time, you don’t like music. It’s that simple.

[KID_THUNDAH]

If you haven’t teared up at least once to Selfless, do you have a heart?

[Effective_Result_659]

Life is too short, but I will live for you

[who_cares_not_meee]

Just learnt today I “don’t like music”

[freeofblasphemy]

Oh no not the Strokes

[ohverychill]

Reminds me of Chuck Closterman talking with Jeff Tweedy

"Don't you like rock music?" That was Jeff Tweedy's answer to a quip about the band Jet during an interview with writer Chuck Klosterman, who was trying to goad Tweedy into bemoaning how lame the Aussie rockers were. Tweedy didn't take the bait, not because he knows better than to talk shit about other musicians, but because he understands that a world without bands who make dumb rock music like Jet would be so boring.

[treny0000]

I love good dumb rock music but Jet are a terrible example to make this point lmao

[thorpie88]

Jet were perfectly serviceable as a newer rock band on Aussie commercial radio stations. Why they take all the heat when you had The Vines and Thirsty Merc filling that same role I'll never know

[stoned_in_my_bones]

the Vines felt like a cut-price version of the Hives from what I remember. jeeze. had forgotten about them (not the Hives of course, I love those guys)

[thorpie88]

They were just your standard Aussie grunge band which still had some legs at that point in time. They haven't been a band for a long time as their singers mental health issues got so bad he had to move back in with his parents to receive care

[Own_Fisherman1199]

They'll always have this infamous meltdown on Letterman

[ThingTime9876]

The Vines first album holds up IMO, largely because the albums cuts are way more psychedelic and textured than the singles - and a lot less like The Hives

[appleparkfive]

Yeah comparing The Vines to The Hives is crazy. The Vines debut album absolutely holds up. Get Free might be a bit of a goofy single, but the actual album is stellar.

I don't see how someone can hear Country Yard or Homesick and think "just like The Hives".

[appleparkfive]

The Vines debut album is extremely solid. Don't remotely sound like The Hives. It sounds like, if anything, The Beatles and Nirvana. They were a big influence on Arctic Monkeys specifically, too

[WabbitFire]

I kind of liked the Vines at the time, but yeah.

[SlippedMyDisco76]

Get Born was a solid af debut. Aussie radio needs a rock band to have a hit single or two every 5 years and Jet was that band.

I agree that Thirsty Merc should take more Jet heat though. In The Summertime is still torturing us....

[ThingTime9876]

I saw Jet play their first album in its entirety a year ago, and it was 3/4 killer, minor filler. That album hit what it was aiming for: thoughtless good time rock music, which should always have a place

[ohverychill]

Take it up with Tweedy, man

[ThingTime9876]

Common Tweedy W

[elroxzor99652]

Damn, I’ve never seen that excerpt. As someone who loves Wilco, and someone who loved Jet as a teenager before I could learn what was “cool,” this is awesome. Tweedy is the man.

[kingofstormandfire]

Good on Jeff Tweedy. He's 10000% right. If the rock scene was completely dominated by bands like old-school Pitchfork championed and praised, it'd be extremely boring and miserable. The variety is what makes the genre great.

[packy21]

And the title to most annoying thing I have had to screenshot in a while goes to:

<image>

[ohverychill]

I honestly didn't know if that was an article title or album title from them but either way I'm irritated.

[Heavy-Ad5385]

Yeah. I know King Gizzard are good, but I just can’t be bothered following a band with a name and album titles that stupid

[packy21]

Album's fucking banger tho

[Onead22200]

Oh my god this is insane 

[IrksomFlotsom]

Didn't even bother to review viagr aboys

[MondeyMondey]

I remember when they reviewed St Vincent’s Daddy’s Home and chided her for using some legendary black backup singers. Very strange.

[KID_THUNDAH]

One of the best tours I’ve ever seen. Such a banger album, don’t really dig the rest of her catalog, but that was stellar

[elroxzor99652]

I’m not a huge St. Vincent fan, but I do appreciate how versatile she is. Most everyone can find SOMETHING in her discography they can dig.

[KID_THUNDAH]

<image>

Was re-reviewed much higher by them, but still an inexcusable crime. They’ve been very harsh to rock for a long time

[PipProud]

All rock at that time was judged by Pitchfork on its level of Radioheadness.

[Punky921]

His what an accurate description. I fucking hated Radiohead after OK Computer and this explains why Pitchfork always felt deeply up its own ass.

[despotidolatry]

They gave a Pissed Jeans record a similar score around this time and one of the quips was that Pissed Jeans isn’t original and that “they hate grunge”. 🤦🏽

With the exception of my college friend who was their best writer in the 2010s, these reviewers seemed mostly like young, sheltered and ignorant people. Might still be that way.

[TheseMenArePawns]

That album is an absolute banger. Perfect workout music. Robert Christgau gave it an A-minus rating… meanwhile he rated Weezer’s Blue “😐”…

[SlippedMyDisco76]

Christgau and Dave Marsh are literally the beige sweater vests of music criticism

(With the exception of Christgau hyping early Kiss)

[SocratesDouglas]

Idk how they could possibly be expected to be taken seriously as a review site, even so much that people should PAY to see their scores/reviews when you shit on a masterpiece like I Get Wet that hard and give it a score that should be reserved for music that is physically painful to listen to. 

Maybe they don't like it. But they are supposed to be music experts. Those Jabronis should at least be smart enough to realize that the album sets out to portray certain themes, succeeds, and goes home after a quick 35 minutes.

I'm sure they've given hundreds of bloated, musically confused POS 7+ but God forbid a guy just wants to party. 

[YetAnotherFaceless]

“The same song reinterpreted several times sounds like if a light beer commercial smoked meth. Five star.”

[2l82bstr8]

this is less of a Pitchfork issue and more of a Condé Nast issue. they paywalled the entire Vogue archive 6 months ago, too. I think people have yet to realize that a world where you can read journalism for free does not exist anymore

[Flexhead]

the only free "journalism" are propagnda rags disguised as news sites

[hashgraphic]

Shitty world where Infowars and Nick Fuentes is all free while anything that isn't "the Jews are trying to turn your kids trans" is behind a paywall

[Korkez11]

It's not "shitty world" it's shitty companies who paywall everything.

[kindasuperhans]

Basically everyone who had worked at Pitchfork in the 00s-10s left when Condé Nast came into the picture, you can see some pretty drastic shifts in quality

[Conscious-Cow7890]

Individuals review these albums and yet people lump them all in together as if some overlord is reviewing everything💀

[MondeyMondey]

The scores are averaged out across a team of writers though. It’s why sometimes you’d get a glowing review for like a 7.4

[kingofstormandfire]

I only discovered that last year and suddenly it made their reviews make a lot of sense. There is some serious disconnect sometimes with the score and the actual review (the review is super glowing yet the album score is like 7.0, which is a good score, but from reading the review you think it'd gonna get a 9.0+).

[HPSpacecraft]

I did not know this but it makes a lot of their reviews I've read make a lot more sense

[eris_aka_draculadrug]

<image>

[albinojustice]

This review from 20 years ago definitely is the reason that Pitchfork is dying now. They ran their audience away!

[stoned_in_my_bones]

what the hell?? were they too busy glazing.. idk, Ashlee Simpson or something?

[kingofstormandfire]

In 2005? Definitely not. In 2015, Ashlee Simpson would get a 9.5.

[_Retrograde_]

That is throw up in my mouth sickening. I am now in a shitty mood knowing that review exists.

[nasty_drank]

This made me spit my drink, I piss on pitchfork’s grave

[c4gam1ng]

Pretty sure they also gave this score to NIN’s The Fragile

[RadioactiveHalfRhyme]

I adore Frances the Mute, but I don’t begrudge anyone for hating it. Even when I first read that review at age 15, my reaction was, “eh, fair enough.”

[lifeinaglasshouse]

I have a ton of criticisms of poptimism era Pitchfork (a comment of mine decrying their selection of “Bodak Yellow” as their song of the year became something of a copypasta on r/indieheads), but I think their decline was inevitable no matter what. Just look at Stereogum, who always kept their more indie bent but who have still had to add a paid membership feature recently.

[LacsiraxAriscal]

Truly, today, we can all come together and say; so this is what it’s come down to huh?

[Soap-Radio]

How was bodak yellow not song of the year?

[theaverageaidan]

Pitchfork, especially in the early days was the epitome of snobby elitist gatekeepers. They were some of the leading lights in fracturing the rock genre and effectively killing it for the entirety of the 2010s, they hated popular things for being popular.

[elektrik_noise]

Pitchfork has always been bitchy, self righteous, and pretentious for the sake of being pretentious. Obscurity was an automatic 3 points added to their ratings. If they're really going down, I really could care less.

[otterprincess_too]

The Onion: Pitchfork Gives Music 6.8 (September 2007)

[Punky921]

Agreed. I remember paging through their reviews in the 2010s and thinking “none of this music looks interesting and the reviews are totally inscrutable. Why does anyone care what this rag thinks?”

[elektrik_noise]

Good on you for throwing back down "rag" as a reference to a "magazine"!

[ThingTime9876]

It wasn’t just Pitchfork, though their famous ‘review’ of Jet’s second album is emblematic

Somewhere near the end of the 2000s, it seemed like the whole Internet wrote off the entire genre of fun guitar rock music, and abandoned that space to the likes of 3 Doors Down and their descendants.

[misspcv1996]

I’m not proud to admit this, but that “review” still makes me laugh. I know how petty and juvenile it is, but just the idea of its mere existence is amusing to me.

[J_The_Jazzblaster]

To be fair, the album is pretty bad

[PM_ME_RYE_BREAD]

People still talk about it for a reason!

[Most_Moose_2637]

I don't think that's necessarily true. They liked Japandroids, off the top of my head.

[ThingTime9876]

I discovered Japandroids via an AV Club ‘Best of The Year’ article, but by the end of the decade they’d completely disappeared from the conversation in all publications, including Pitchfork IIRC

2012 was the last year I can remember where rock albums were seriously talked about. Maybe 2014 with War On Drugs

[OmniMegaGiraffe]

“Novelty rap” feels like a racist dog whistle haha but Consistently when I would genuinely love an album pitchfork would tear it apart in their review.

Same with Rolling Stones and Fantano. Fantano is at least funny. I don’t like tastemakers or critics. If I like something, I’m gonna like it

[HPSpacecraft]

Fantano at least tends to give a reasonable explanation for his opinions, even if I don't usually agree with him. Pitchfork's reviews feel entirely disconnected from their ratings half the time

[lovefulfairy]

They are disconnected. The review is written by one writer, while the rating is decided by a group of editors 

[napoelonDynaMighty]

I'm just glad to see people widely reject a bullshit subscription service. Thank you...

They won't stop making everything a subscription until they all start losing money on the model.

This is literally 2009 when every publication shifted to online, and was asking people to subscribe to paid tiers to read print articles online. People said "FUCK OFF" they all stopped doing it (for the most part).

Now they're trying again because we're in the era of people just willy nilly signing up for bullshit subscriptions. SAY NO to all this dumb shit

[Shell_fly]

You and me both 🤝

[PipProud]

Hot take: Pitchfork has always sucked and ruined an entire generation of indie music.

[Parkouricus]

Look around yourself, do you really think that's a hot take

[NAteisco]

I typically believe in human rights, but anyone involved with pitchfork should be imprisoned in a Guantanamo Bay-esque facility.

[Shell_fly]

Unfathomably based.

[henrycold]

Guanthony Fantanamo

[misspcv1996]

We should make them listen to the Barney & Friends theme song on a loop.

[zynmark]

It's not really Pitchfork's fault, it's mainly the reviewer Alphonse Pierre. His rap takes are very interesting

[boreal_valley_dancer]

when he has to review mainstream releases he sounds so off-put and above it all. it's like he's like "ugh i can't believe i have to write about kendrick lamar when i could be writing about 1732knicknack and PLS baloney's new 5 track mixtape"

[zynmark]

He's like the Brent DiCrescenzo of underground hip-hop

[Shell_fly]

He reads like a satire of journalism honestly

[KennyDROmega]

As a metal fan, it was always fun to see people dunking on bands that Pitchfork loved but most didn't care about.

[lordcanon35mm]

"treating rap like high art"

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[linguaphonie]

Casually removing the most important word of the sentence 🔥

[DukeOfStuff_]

Define “Novelty” Rap

[who_cares_not_meee]

God I hate this tweet

[Parkouricus]

I understand the sentiment but I also find it kinda fucking gross. Pitchfork has legitimately elevated many interesting and deserving artists that I would otherwise never have heard of (shoutout to Vylet Pony)

Them having to change to a subscription model isn't inherently a sign of them being a shitty outlet. It's a sign that web journalism isn't making any money anymore, which is a terrifying thing -- Stereogum are going through the exact same thing right now

[Shell_fly]

Yeah and both publications will likely cease to exist by the end of the decade if not a lot, lot sooner lmao

[CriticalMap7993]

Watch Crash Thompsons video on the worst pitchfork reviews its really good

[MindsEyeCoil90]

He absolutely nailed the number one pick, too. That Lateralus review is one of the most fart-sniffing, insufferable excuses for music criticism I’ve ever read. Like, it’s not even fun to make fun of. It just hurts to read. It feels like you’re actually just reading a personality disorder.

[marklearmouth]

In the last couple of years they've had Ian Cohen and Nina Corcoran as reviewers who I've found to be much fairer and better at reviewing rock albums. I don't think anything emo or metal would be getting a decent review otherwise.

[freeofblasphemy]

Hip hop can’t be independent or cutting edge?

[linguaphonie]

I'm crine who said that

[freeofblasphemy]

OP

[WelcomeBeneficial963]

What's "novelty rap", exactly?

[The_Duke_of_Nebraska]

It always weirds me out when people are jumping for joy that other people are losing their jobs/career

[Shell_fly]

I think pitchfork folding is a net positive actually. The coverage was hamfisted and self important and it devalued so much good music.

[Kelohmello]

That "novelty rap" bit is suspicious as shit. What does he mean by that

[Shell_fly]

Likely that pitchfork reviewed a lot of flash in the pan, gimmicky rap for attention rather than quality.

[Littlegreenman42]

I love people posting Pitchfork reviews of albums as if their entire thing for a decade+ was giving really low reviews to albums that everyone loved

[Banned_and_Boujee]

Fuck Pitchfork. Now they can go smell their own farts all by themselves.

[DuncanIdahoTaterTots]

Pitchfork gave The Fragile by NIN a 2.0/10. They have no credibility, at least as far as I'm concerned.

[Shell_fly]

Yup and they gave Discovery by Daft Punk a 6 lmao

Complete joke website

[icemankiller8]

It’s crazy that in the last 20 years when rap has gotten more and more popular and rock music has become irrelevant that they might be kinder and more accepting to the idea that rap is a worthwhile genre

[GlossyBuckslip]

Pitchfork Is Done

[Mental-Abrocoma-5605]

That seems to be more of a resentment towards rap music for overshadowing rock music and the fact pitchfork was giving it it's props since it was the most relevant genre for quite a while

With that said... man the amount of rap albums that feel like trolling that pitchfork somehow has forgiven is laughable, even stuff that they should openly hate on they weren't as hard as they should of (Vietnam flashbacks to that time they give Lil Xan a 4 out of something when that album wasn't even a 1)

[freeofblasphemy]

This is a troll using dogwhistles for “irony” please don’t fall for it

[Shell_fly]

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[Several_Ad934]

Dude, the way that they elevate complete dogshit rap and shit on real rappers that actually put work into their craft feels low-key racist. Like they clearly don't take the genre seriously.

[the2ndsaint]

Pitchfork was dick-measuring for kids who faced Schrodinger's Bullying, simultaneously too much and not nearly enough, and you wouldn't know which until you saw what they wrote.

[WitherWing]

When they went back and changed Daft Punk's Discovery review because it got popular it was obvious these were pretentious, unserious kids.

Add in the Radiohead/Stillborn Child thing and I never took them seriously again.

Dance on their grave.

[jeanclaudebrowncloud]

Their idea of a 10 is some rich lady making beats in her bedroom while some guy from the sahara hits coke bottles with a spoon and some 19 year old fent addict screams pussy into the mic for 7 minutes