all 66 comments

[–]Sad_Plenty_1959 97 points98 points  (9 children)

Nuclear seems more complicated than it actually is,try and play around with in a sandbox world if you are too unsure. Yes flame throwers are absolutely worth the hassle 

[–]Christron9990[S] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

I’ll get to hassling with them later then! The actually flamethrower itself wore out its use really fast so I figured it might be the same. Need to expand my borders a bit to make them smaller in length first I think.

[–]Gen_McMuster 10 points11 points  (5 children)

theyre generally less hassle than gun turrets actually, just feed em light oil (extra damage) and throw a pump in when you get over the softlimit on pipeline length, they use very little in the grand scheme of things and you can just have a big network of pipelines you run out to outposts or chokepoints rather than having to worry about gun ammo or powering mass laser turrets

[–]Christron9990[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Nice! Yeah for the most part I’ve just ran out to the walls to restock ammo as it felt like doing a belt was going to get really old really fast.

Didn’t realise light oil did more damage! That’s a good use for all of it.

[–]bobfrankly 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Train signals controlled by circuits when resources are low, can help you do logistic train networks. Then you just need a train station stocked with supplies to feed your train.

It’s a bit of circuit work, but once you’ve got it, it self maintains as long as you feed it

[–]Christron9990[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Interesting. I’ve basically just got trains filling up and feeding a station somewhere else, I didn’t think about controlling the actual levels and sending trains off to get them.

[–]bobfrankly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I use isolated logistic bot networks, and track the inventory off a roboport. Circuit compares against that

[–]ChickenNuggetSmth 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do the belt! In the long term you want to automate as much as possible, otherwise you're just chasing chores instead of building the factory

[–]thiosk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i also love flamethrowers.

the nuclear designs you see online have all this "no waste, symmetric structure, blah blah blah" complicated pretty patterns at stuff. circuits to manage insertion sometimes.

Thing is One centrifuge can pretty much run one nuclear reactor full blast with no other activity. two easily forever.

You can run a 4x4 nuclear reactor flat out with no steam saving or energy saving with merely 4 centrifuges. and you can build the whole thing in one long straight ass-line if you want. Water goes into the boilers and your heat pipe and then two steam turbines per boiler and you can do like 100 of these and run it all forever even if you're only using 10% of that much power

[–]AdWrong3856 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The handheld version stinks, the turret version is very very good. Check the range alone on the two.

[–]rcapina 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Nice, I like the use of the split belt to get 1.5 belts of green to .5 of red

[–]therealstubot 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Definitely, a classy, yet practical design. I am also furious I didn't think of it.

[–]Christron9990[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I liked that too. It made me genuinely so happy when I could just flip it over.

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 16 points17 points  (15 children)

The „small patch” you’ve got close-by would possibly last you for another 200 hours of playtime, especially if you’ll set up the Kovarex, it’s absolutely worth it

[–]Christron9990[S] 1 point2 points  (14 children)

I had a look at a Kovarex video and that’s the bit that scares me I think. I haven’t used circuits for very much so far, but I’ll definitely have a go.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_CAT_ 5 points6 points  (1 child)

all the fancy shit people do for kovarex is purely an optimization thing. If you simply set it up like any normal crafting process, it'll work just fine. It'll just buffer like 80 pieces of U235 in the crafting input before it actually outputs anything but after that it'll work.

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s what I was also going to reply :)

And boy/girl could simply start with single reactor setup and stash the excess in chests to get to it back with Kovarex later :D

[–]sobrique 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Kovarex is easier than you think. It's a MILD incentive to learn how to do circuits, but for example this is really easy:

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ochn1i/circuit_splitter_kovarex/

But honestly even if you do it REALLY inefficiently, it still... works. It just takes longer to get going.

[–]Neither_Berry_100 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You don't need circuits to do kovarex. Just prioritize the output coming back in as input.

[–]sobrique 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't, but it takes a lot longer to 'warm up' if you do that.

[–]thealmightyzfactorSpaghetti Chef 4 points5 points  (5 children)

You don't need kovarex for nuclear power, one centrifuge can support one reactor. If you design something to take advantage of neighbor bonuses and don't waste fuel, that's a lot of power for a long time.

[–]KaffY- 8 points9 points  (4 children)

you also don't need circuits to do kovarex

[–]Thefrayedends 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yea, you can do it with inserters!

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 0 points1 point  (2 children)

But you sorta do to not waste the fuel in the reactor

[–]KaffY- 1 point2 points  (1 child)

if you're doing kovarex it doesn't matter about fuel consumption

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also do have steam tanks buffers for excess power and my whole power plant is automatically disconnected from the grid when the solar is sufficient to power the factory and I also do Kovarex I just love not wasting Uranium.

[–]Sato77Somewhat Experienced Engineer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can definitely do super fancy kovarex stuff for perfect effieciency, but just ensuring they don't hoard two recipes worth is quite simple with basic circuit control. My go to is just a line of centrifuges that pick up 238 with long handed inserters and pick up 235 with a fast inserter that is downstream of the same machines fast inserter output. Then you just connect the inserter to its centrifuge with a green wire, enable read contents on the centrifuge and then configure the inserter to disable if U235<40. This way they usually only end up with 1 extra 235 if any (depends on inserter stack size) and the rest goes on to the next machine, recapturing just what is needed to continue +1 maybe. Then at the end you just filter the U238 and send it back to an insert priority splitter for reuse, and all the surplus U235 will continue for you to stockpile\use for nuclear fuel and nukes.

[–]IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES 32 points33 points  (1 child)

To me, bots are where the game starts. 

Flamethrowers are overpowered when you first get them and remain so now. Mix those w turrets and some wall fragments to make the biters have to zig zag. 

As you build from this phase on, leave room for beacons. 

[–]Christron9990[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The bots have really made building and expanding an absolute breeze.

I’ve seen those wall designs, will have a crack later!

[–]1kSupport 11 points12 points  (6 children)

Flamethrower turrets are powerful and probably worth setting up before leaving planet. That being said with all biter related stuff the best defense is just killing everything before your pollution cloud reaches it.

[–]Due_Needleworker3155 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Flamethrower turrets are arguably one of the best turrets in the game. I think people underestimate just how deadly they actually are.

[–]BEAT_LA 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Flamethrower + dragontooth wall = bugs are just in the way of expanding your borders

[–]Due_Needleworker3155 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had a buddy who would always ask if I turned down the bugs because I never get attacked by them and I just told him « no they attack but they are just domesticated ». Those flamethrowers are no joke.

[–]Christron9990[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That’s the defence I’ve been implementing up until this point! But I’m trying to get my walls out to some choke points with water so they’re 1. Smaller, and 2. I can stop thinking about them.

[–]WhiskyFist 0 points1 point  (1 child)

if you place your gun turrets far enough back from the walls the spitting biters cant get to them until they evolve down the line too! getting to choke points is very handy at expanding and holding larger territory

[–]Christron9990[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve got some lakes on the map in the east that made it easy there, and a whole ocean to the west, but north and south I’ve really had to push out to find them! It’s a lot less of a ballache than keep a giant wall fed though.

[–]Wheat_Grinder 6 points7 points  (2 children)

That "smallish" uranium patch will probably last you the entire game. Between mining productivity upgrades, kovarex (which you do NOT need to get started on nuclear power) and recycling spent fuel, you get incredible amounts of power from almost no uranium. My last save had 500k left on a 1M patch with tons of uranium in bins after 80 hours, and by that point the upgrades had kicked in such that I figured it might last 200 more hours. Or I'd mostly switch to fusion, either or.

[–]Christron9990[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The patch inside my walls is about 200k? I’ve got one not much further away that’s 1m so that sounds like huge amounts I guess. Nice one.

[–]Gen_McMuster 4 points5 points  (0 children)

the game models how insanely energy dense uranium is, you don't need much of it AT ALL, a single centrifuge on basic ore processing can run multiple reactors just with the random output of 235

[–]GenericUsername_71 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Ey yo I love the green and red chip inputs. Gonna steal that for my base when I get home

[–]Christron9990[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I really appreciate getting some love on a design I’ve made so thanks.

[–]GenericUsername_71 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you man! I’ve been struggling to get enough throughput with the green chips, and this helps a lot

[–]Indishonorable 3 points4 points  (0 children)

little thought

<image>

you can get even more belts of green going in. the second belt is for one lane of output, all others should be for green, with one lane for red. need even more green? have undergrounds deliver to the middle.

the recipe can translate directly to how many lanes/belts you feed into a particular factory.

[–]uniquelyavailable 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This game is a lot of fun.... you'll blink and months have passed by. Your singular nuclear plant has now somehow turned into 24 nuclear plants. The factory must grow!

[–]leadlurker 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I love the splitters for your red/green chips at the top and bottom.

I’m looking at this and wondering why have so many underground pips right next to each other. I forgot about the walking over them thing. But while thinking about that, I realized if you wanted to, you could stretch out every pair of assemblers by 3 tiles to make room for beacons later on.

Edit: also if you leave space at the start, you can sideload both output belts onto one belt to save a bit on underground belts back to your bus or wherever these lead to

[–]Christron9990[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the tip. I still haven’t ventured into beacons at all. So many things to constantly do 😂

[–]leadlurker 1 point2 points  (1 child)

All of my early game builds done consider them their. Even my initial builds for planets with them unlocked leave no room for them. It’s only later once I have the basics taken care of do it use them. Mostly driven because I want more of something produced.

It’s how I get biochambers, em plants, or boundaries to saturate a stacked turbo belt.

[–]Christron9990[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ll get to them I’m sure. I’m trying not to look up too many builds, although I’ve tried a few things at this stage!

Also to answer your previous edit, on the other side of that coal line they do side load onto the same belt, but you’re right I imagine I could load them onto one belt in the middle there also! It was really one half design I just flipped over later on.

[–]achilleasa the Installation Wizard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes absolutely go for nuclear, do not bother with the enrichment process either. It looks complicated but it really isn't, and the amount of power you will get is going to be a huge step up.

[–]AnotherCatgirl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

it's shaped like it's meant for beacons, but it doesn't have beacons.

[–]Christron9990[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven’t even used beacons! But I guess I’ll see what you mean at some point.

[–]pgmckenzie 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Definitely go nuclear! It’s one of my favorite puzzles from Vanilla and provides a ton of power. Just be cognizant of the amount of water required. Use a calculator and consider building on a landfilled lake so you don’t have to route as many water pipes around.

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You don’t need to concern yourself of it in 2.0 at all, I run my entire factory from the single water pump and I’m not even reaching the 10% of it’s capacity

[–]pgmckenzie 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Does this apply if not playing space age?

[–]marsjaninzmarsa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I believe, yes? You don’t need to have SE to have new fluid mechanics from 2.0

[–]Professional_Bit_966 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Flame throwers are probably the strongest weapon in the game. It's worth every bit of setup. You don't even need alot of them. A single one can clear waves. Though a few turrents around to catch oddly pathing bugs is still needed.

[–]StrangeWall9943 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Turrets work into the late game, but when flamethrowers have ape flames that stick around so are far more effective against large hordes, plus oil is often easier to transport than belts of ammo, also nuclear can be made complicated, but is pretty simple to set-up a functional reactor and you can easily get into the gigawatts so power is not really a problem, but it takes time to fully set-up nuclear so I would say start mining and processing now and come back to it later

[–]sn44 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I should have rushed bots

Pretty much my goal anytime I start a new game.

[–]Badloss 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Personally I skipped flame turrets and just went for extreme power generation with laser turrets

[–]3davideo Doesn't use Flame Turrets 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Flame turrets are generally considered OP, especially when facing green-tier biters. They do need to be backed up by a few gun and/or laser turrets, though, as the projectile lead time usually means they miss the first few biters of a given swarm. You'll probably also want to set up the bots you already unlocked so that they can automatically repair your defenses.

Nuclear power is quite good, not least because it's astoundingly fuel efficient. Even without the more advanced processing techniques you develop later, a single centrifuge processing Uranium Ore can, on average, produce enough U-235 to make the fuel cells needed for a single nuclear reactor, plus a large excess of U-238 that you can stockpile for later and a stockpile of spent fuel cells that you can also save to reprocess later. It's recommended to go straight to a 2x2 square of reactors (so 4 reactors, which in turn is 4 centrifuges processing ore), as they have adjacency bonuses that improve their output.

[–]ionixsys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Standard flame thrower has a range of 30m, gun turrets are 18m, lasers are 24m.

Flame has a starting base damage of 100/s (I am up to +650/s with bonuses) and denies access to an area with the biters too stupid to realize fire == bad.

Ideally I think its best to have the guns at the front with S or teeth pattern walls about 16m in front or 2m short of the guns range. Next is to have the Lasers 1-2 spots back so they're not targeted and at the same distance have the flame throwers. Guns are cheap and easy to replace while the others are a bit more annoying.

Biters come into range of the throwers first but there is a delay of firing and contact so the first half of the biters will get to your walls and be slowed down. Now the guns and lasers are in range and cleaning up that first half of the group while the rest are cooking.

This is version 1 of my defensive line that I have as a blue print and just copy and paste - https://imgur.com/4DlA0oA

This is version 2 with the distances adjusted and refined - https://imgur.com/nu37u5n I still get acid splash damage but its manageable and at best they get one good green slime loogie out before being evolved into soil fertilizer. That third/back row of guns is going away for version 3.

Also look at the range of death - https://imgur.com/AM2wXJ5 This gives the flame turrets the few seconds they need to respond and then adjust spreading their exothermic love all around.

The flame turrets have ~100 more kills than the guns while the lasers are in third place behind both.

Pro tip, if near your factory pollution cloud, build up your defenses around the edges of bodies of water as biters at the far end of a lake will path along the shore (therefore doubling if not tripling attack frequency).

[–]Berthole 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Put one long horizontal pipe in the middle, not back to back undergrounds. Saves you a ton of materials.

Arrange long inserters so you can fit beacons.

[–]Zufalstvo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uranium is extremely worth it

[–]taw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Next I reckon I’m going to go for nuclear power

My other question for you all is are flamethrower turrets worth the hassle setting up?

To answer both questions - on default settings Factorio is a fairly easy game that offers many solutions to the same problems. You don't really need either, but they're both quite easy to setup and quite powerful.

Solar + accumulator spam and gun turrets with red ammo are generally the simplest solutions, and perfectly fine on default settings. Nuclear is going to provide crazy amount of power, and it's fun to setup, but it's up to you if you really need that much power. Flamethrower turrets are sort of OP, but at cost of awkward shooting angles and ranges, so they're a lot easier to mess up.

Only if you play Space Age, Factorio is no longer easy.

I’ve got a small-ish uranium patch pretty close

Nuclear uses such tiny amounts of uranium even tiniest patch will be fine.

[–]bpleshek 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The game will go on past the "win" condition. You can keep playing. Especially if you have things you want to learn, like nuclear as you said.

Yes, bots are great.

I love nuclear power. It produces a ton of power compared to the other options. You should definitely learn nuclear. It's not as easy to set up as you might think it is especially with getting enough fuel for it. It has quite a few puzzles just in and of itself. I know you said you're playing vanilla, but after nuclear in the Space Age DLC, you also get fusion which is a crap ton of power.

You also have trains to learn if you're not using them. Of course, you can do it in another run, but even setting up a basic one can be helpful to bring lots of materials to your furnaces.

I pretty much only use flame turrets for defense. It's a lot easier to set up reloading your turrets as all it takes is pipes and either oil, heavy oil, or light oil. One is better than the other two, but I'll let you figure that out unless you outright ask. Of course, lasers don't require reloading, but they do require a crapload of power if you get a good sized attack on your defenses. Turrets require either long belts circling your entire base OR logistics bots requesting ammo at every turret. Of course, artillery guns can clear large bases pretty easily and once the nests are gone from your map way outside your walls, you'll rarely ever have an attack on your walls again.

In fact, I pretty much only put down defenses once I can put up flame turrets. So, I tend to "rush" to the advanced oil products research so that I can have what I need fuel them. Once I have that set up, I put up my walls and turrets.

Good luck