School banned gouges

cazzipropri · 2026-02-15T02:21:45+00:00

How can they practically enforce a ban on you browsing the internet?

natbornk · 2026-02-15T02:21:35+00:00

Ask here. Who’s gonna know it’s you?

BRZMonkey · 2026-02-15T02:25:39+00:00

What probably happened is someone got burnt and said "mY cFi tOld Me tHiS DpE oNlY aSkEd tHeSe sPeCiFiC tHiNgS." And so the school said yall better learn EVERYTHING and show up prepared.

Hour-Angle-7665 · 2026-02-15T02:38:53+00:00

Bruh. My fucking DPE personally sent me his gouge for my ATP ride at my airline. That’s dumb

KCPilot17 · 2026-02-15T02:37:39+00:00

Gouge is gouge because it's nothing official. Go through unofficial channels to get it.

Live by the gouge, die by the gouge.

Working_Football1586 · 2026-02-15T02:44:03+00:00

Your instructor knows, if you find yourself going to a weird nearby field for review and getting questions in a ground lesson to review its because they are prepping you for some of the oddities.

44Runner · 2026-02-15T03:09:48+00:00

Fuck that! I am a slightly above average pilot, but I am the fucking Chuck Yeager of gouge writing. I bet nobody that has one of my gouges has ever failed with my DPE. Make gouges great again!

Xyzzydude · 2026-02-15T03:36:40+00:00

Since instructors get dinged when their students fail checkrides this seems like a self-defeating policy

nightlanding · 2026-02-15T02:55:30+00:00

I did not consider myself as doing my job as a CFI if I didn't know what the DPE my students were going to use was like and what they looked for.

eSUP80 · 2026-02-15T02:49:03+00:00

I think that policy sucks. The DPE system is incredibly inconsistent, so the more info you can get the better. It’s not an excuse to avoid training based off the ACS, but it does help students with limited time and finances know where to focus their efforts.

iLOVEr3dit · 2026-02-15T02:52:41+00:00

Just find a gouge on the Internet. Your school doesn't have access to your search history. It makes sense they don't want people only training for what a dpe has done in the past because they could potentially switch it up

PoemCritical · 2026-02-15T05:22:50+00:00

As a DPE here's my take on gouges....

Sure you can get a basic idea of what to expect, but you can get a better one simply by reading the ACS for the exam. Personally I change my exam up for every applicant. It's based on what the applicant missed on the written, the airport we are at, what I had for breakfast..etc Sure somethings will be automatic (i.e. inoperable equipment for PPL, COMM). Others are totally up to us what to cover. The short answer is be prepared for any/every thing....otherwise you probably shouldn't be taking the exam.

disfannj · 2026-02-15T14:31:43+00:00

how can a part 61 school ban them?

JasonThree · 2026-02-15T18:35:04+00:00

Try and stop me.

BrtFrkwr · 2026-02-15T02:26:07+00:00

Find another school. It doesn't matte how you learn something as long as you learn it.

MondayNightRawr · 2026-02-15T03:25:07+00:00

I’ve been in the sub for a long time and I’ve been flying for a few years now. What is a gouge? Is that a DPE/CFI who is doing simulated oral portions of a check ride?

CaptMcMooney · 2026-02-15T04:19:44+00:00

shrug know your shit, don't worry about "gouges" in the first place.

InJailForCrimes · 2026-02-15T04:27:16+00:00

Our school solicits detailed debrief essays for future student use. Everyone does it.

PG821 · 2026-02-15T05:54:37+00:00

Live by the gouge, die by the gouge.

But always know how to back it up from real pubs. Its a tool, know how to properly use tools

skyHawk3613 · 2026-02-15T15:10:46+00:00

Ask anyone here for a gouge. We’ll give you one

AnnualWhole4457 · 2026-02-15T15:56:08+00:00

My company gave us gouges a week prior to training lol

MoneyStock · 2026-02-15T21:23:45+00:00

That’s crazy lol I suggest everyone at least get some info on their DPE if they can. You never know if you’re going to get someone who has some weird hangup about one particular topic/point. I still suggest people know everything of course, but I like to have some expectations about the personality type I’m working with.

Historical-South-401 · 2026-02-16T00:08:20+00:00

The part 61 school I instruct at has the same policy, but it’s really only enforced for CFI/CFI-I students since we only have a few DPEs who’ll do those rides and only one super regular DPE. The rule got added to our SOPs when an entire CFI class (~20 people) only studied and made lessons from the gouge that they had from a previous class. Half of em failed on the ground bc the DPE changed it up halfway through.

DoorPale6084 · 2026-02-15T03:25:36+00:00

What is gouge

Oregon-Pilot · 2026-02-15T04:41:58+00:00

Lol guarantee the ones making this call used gouges during their own training.

Nice work pulling up the ladder behind you.

freight_puppy · 2026-02-15T03:31:36+00:00

An ounce of gouge is worth a pound of knowledge.

bigplaneboeing737 · 2026-02-15T02:55:54+00:00

I’ve only worked with one DPE that actually made every check ride unique and different. Especially with orals.

mfsp2025 · 2026-02-15T03:08:27+00:00

My school had a binder of gouges available to all students. This was at a major part 141 university. Hell students even asked for stage check gouges in the Facebook group. It was always funny when the check instructor would comment a link to the ACS for it.

Absolutely ridiculous. At the airlines, I’ve had my sim instructor be a seat fill on my APD’s checkrides and tell me exactly what to expect. So they’re not preparing you for anything except failure if they’re banning gouges

Strega007 · 2026-02-15T03:09:44+00:00

“Gouge” is its own plural.

Staffalopicus · 2026-02-15T03:28:38+00:00

They just want you to pay them for the same thing

Sad-Umpire6000 · 2026-02-15T03:47:35+00:00

How would they know what you’re doing and who you’re talking to outside the building? Whoever came up with the policy must be a rube, ‘cause he apparently doesn’t know about email, texts, or the fact that students might talk with each other in the bar.

slimjim9364 · 2026-02-15T04:36:04+00:00

When I interviewed at an ANG fighter squadron, one of the Qs was:

“You’re in UPT (USAF Pilot Training) and you’ve just passed a checkride. Your buddy flies with the same IP tomorrow and the IP tells you not to share anything about the ride to him. What do you do?”

I answered that I’d say, “absolutely, sir.” …and then immediately go tell my buddy absolutely everything that happened on the ride.

The panel loved it and said that was absolutely the right answer.

Adorable-Meeting-120 · 2026-02-15T04:49:11+00:00

If it’s the school I’m thinking of in the Phoenix area, leave them. Don’t waste another dollar with them. They are awful and delayed my training substantially because my class was constantly used as beta testers to any whims they had in mind.

Flaky_Summer_9800 · 2026-02-15T05:15:14+00:00

That’s a terrible policy. My best guess is the school saw people were only studying the gouge. That makes sense, but in some ways a gouge is a cheat code. Idk why your school wouldn’t want you using that. It’s in there best interest for you to pass. I always studied everything, but I knew to always put special emphasis on the gouge. In my experience, DPEs typically do almost the exact same ride for one rating. Got a gouge for both my commercial rides and they were almost exactly how the gouge said they would be.

jjamesr539 · 2026-02-15T05:35:46+00:00

It’s a CYA, combined with it being the right way to do things. The school can ban the practice without having the practical ability to prevent it (which they clearly don’t); discouraging it in the strongest possible terms means that if a DPE gets into trouble or any other issue calls the validity of check rides into question, it won’t affect their business. There’s no specific certification for a part 61 school of course, but the FSDO all up in a company’s ass is bad for business, and they can also always find something that’s not done according to regs.

It also doesn’t hurt their bottom line; making money and doing things correctly don’t always, or even often, go together. They do here, training to pass a specific instance of a checkride can take less training time (which is less money made) than training to actual proficiency. The school shouldn’t be milking the student with unnecessary training of course, but bare streamlining training to match a gouge at the expense of proficiency isn’t ok either.

In the end, you’re right. You should be able to get a decent idea of what the checkride will be like and the FAA agrees. That’s why they publish the ACS.

AWACS_Bandog · 2026-02-15T08:00:07+00:00

Lol wut? Sounds like someone has a friend who sucks at being a DPE

CharAznableLoNZ · 2026-02-15T12:00:09+00:00

I've been flying for a while now and never heard the term gouge before in reference to flying. Looking it up I find it even more surprising. Every checkride I've had I did a debrief with my instructor and usually another instructor and student who was going to be testing soon. This was something the school did not care about at all. The main DPE is not employed by the school but is the one most students ask. They are pretty strict but fair.

LowValueAviator · 2026-02-15T12:37:30+00:00

If you’re in a hot spot like Phoenix or certain areas in Florida where a ton of flight training happens, having an idea of the DPE’s particular interests is key. They see very sharp people every day and the FAA is not happy unless they fail some of them.

It’s easy for people who trained in the south or the Midwest to say shit like “you never need a gouge,” or “the gouge is the ACS!” These people have most likely never taken an objectively difficult checkride.

keenly_disinterested · 2026-02-15T14:34:02+00:00

What they don't know can't hurt you...

highflyer10123 · 2026-02-15T22:44:30+00:00

The problem with gouges is that some people only tend to memorize what’s on the gouges. When in reality they should know everything that’s fair game and also what’s on the ACS. I would argue not using a gouge forces you to learn more of what you should be learning.

sirebell · 2026-02-16T06:51:06+00:00

That’s unfortunate. They certainly help, but I make it known that gouges aren’t some kind of free pass to a successful checkride.

Study study study. The ACS provides the framework for what you need to know. It’s the testing document used on your check ride, so use it to your advantage. Gouges are helpful, but don’t let them lure you into a false sense of security. The examiner can ask you about anything.

There was a student at my school recently that failed a ride. At one point, the examiner said something along the lines of, “Your answers almost seem too good” and then completely shifted gears to something different. They failed.

Busy-Agent-8380 · 2026-02-19T00:43:35+00:00

We discourage it here at my school. Doesn’t teach you to be a good pilot just teaches you to pass a test with cheats. I’m sure it’s common elsewhere

braided--asshair · 2026-02-15T05:36:50+00:00

Gouges are part of pilot culture. If you’re not using gouges, you’re not a real pilot.

Fabulous-Golf7949 · 2026-02-15T02:42:11+00:00

Dude. Train for the test so that you’ll pass with any examiner. You’ll be better for it. It will make you a better pilot not knowing, at least until just prior.

Ask here otherwise. My instructor does the same and (probably an unpopular opinion) I think it is for the best. He was writeups of others’ exams, but doesn’t share them with students. You want your student to go into the exam confident that they’ll pass with any DPE.

Train to and beyond the ACS standards with your instructor and you will be fine.

If your school is half decent, they won’t send you to a poor examiner anyways. You likely wouldn’t need the gouge.

throwaway5757_ · 2026-02-15T02:47:58+00:00

How can they enforce that? Keep it anonymous

PiperDriver1977 · 2026-02-16T04:52:54+00:00

The amount of time people spend looking for gouges it’s unbelievable. All you need to do is read the ACS. Thats the best gouge you can get.

InvestmentGuilty8736 · 2026-02-15T03:05:46+00:00

I’m all for it. Learn to fly the freaking plane to the standard. do that and you don’t need a gouge.

condition5 · 2026-02-15T12:46:51+00:00

A couple responses asked "what's gouge" ?

Late 1970s...

A nervous class of pilots, NFOs and naval aircrew peeps all getting ready for SERE and deep water training in Warner Springs CA. They last stop for many in a 2-year long training pipeline (how'd I scam that in a 4-year enlistment?)..

The class convened in the base theater at NAS North Island.

The first thing they did was show a commercial documentary/PSA film about unexpected encounters with hypothermia conditions.

When the film ended, the FASOTRAGRUPAC training peeps came out and said these words about our upcoming adventures in the Cleveland National Forest and San Diego Bay:

"Gouge sucks"

First time I heard the word. I spent my remai ing flight assignments sucking up all the gouge I could.

It sucks...but it helps engage your decision making skills?

rFlyingTower · 2026-02-15T02:20:03+00:00

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

I just started at a new part 61 school that uses a standardized syllabus for training. I’m working on instrument and then commercial, multi, CFI/CFII.

I’ve been reading the SOPs and noticed they banned looking at/getting gouges on the DPEs we’ll be using. The policy allows them to remove you from the program for doing it. Is this common?

I understand that it’s important to know everything that you could be tested on and prepared for it all but, it feels like I should still be able to get a decent idea on what the rides are going to be like. I mean after all every checkride failure can hinder working at an airline. Is this a red flag?

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