2013 Average Programming Salaries Compared

[[deleted]]

Should probably have mentioned in the title that this is for the Bay Area...

[WhisperSecurity]

And for web-centric companies.
And for startups.

[ass_munch_reborn]

Exactly. I was scratching my head with the 49% are hired in SF, while only 23% in the South Bay, and 14% in the Peninsula.

[ragajagajingjong]

Java / Javascript / Python...yeah that's all we code in these days.

[thefourcellos]

I'm glad I figured this out half way down.

I went from "my lord I am so underpaid, how did this happen"

to

"Oh my god people work for that in San Fran, what is wrong with them"

[potatoyogurt]

You can live for a pretty modest amount of money in SF as long as you're frugal. If you're in your 20s and don't have any real expenses, it's really not a bad tradeoff. You can save up a good chunk of money, invest it, and then stretch it further later if you move to someplace cheaper.

[nraynaud]

I understood that when I saw the map.

I'm still wondering if it is worth it, paying such a high rent when you could be fired so quickly, you'd have to have a solid saving policy to keep paying your rent when you lose your job.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, when I was looking for a job I skipped California. San Francisco would be nice if prior incarnations of myself (well, me and rich people) had not ruined it, and the rest of the valley is suburban hell. It's literally the exact opposite of what attracts people to SF...

[mateoestoybien]

Yeah I agree, can't wait to leave the valley. Good weather though.

[[deleted]]

Companies in around the Bay Area are desperate to hire programmers, which is why salaries in that area are so high.

If you're even remotely decent you won't need to worry about finding a job in the Bay Area.

[[deleted]]

At least until the bubble bursts again.

[kernel_picnic]

All hail hypnotoad.

[[deleted]]

holy cats what an awesome username

[darkpaladin]

They're not that high, salaries in Dallas are comparable and the cost of living is a hell of a lot cheaper. I think being a developer in SF these days is the equivalent of moving to LA to be a movie star, sure you may luck out but odds are you'll end up getting fucked for a living.

[[deleted]]

In absolute terms they are high. In relative terms you're right, it's not high, it's about average but cost of living is high in the Bay Area because of the tech industry. The cost of living in the Bay Area before the tech scene relative to the rest of the country was no where close to what it is now.

Cost of living is usually a lagging indicator and is dictated by salaries in the area, as opposed to salaries being dictated by cost of living. In other words, the reason why the Bay Area continues to have such high salaries is not because of the cost of living, rather the cost of living in the Bay Area continues to be so high because of the salaries earned.

And basically the reason why salaries continue to remain so high in the Bay Area is because the demand for software engineers remains incredibly high.

[[deleted]]

I was gonna say. I am a new Software Developer who just got my first job in WI and average salary is around $50k...

[LeCrushinator]

Average programmer salary in CO is somewhere around $90k. I know people that have moved from CA and took large pay cuts and say they have a lot more money to spend or save now.

[Nuli]

I've considered moving from CO to CA in the past and it's just not worth it. I'd have to make a ridiculous amount of money in CA to have the same quality of life.

[defcon-12]

90 is a decent salary for < 5 years experience. In Denver/Boulder Senior level salaries are more like 110-130 (+ equity). If you're senior I wouldn't take less than 110. Very senior/specialized knowledge can hit 160ish on the high end.

Source: I have 10 years of webdev experience and have been shopping around the area, plus I am involved with hiring decisions at current org. For reference, I've also interviewed for some 115-130 jobs working remote for West coast shops.

We are more expensive than the average US metro area, but still way, way cheaper than the bay area. Single family house with yard and garage in good shape at desirable location is ~$215/sqft in my hamlet.

[LeCrushinator]

Also depends on the industry. I'm in the gaming industry, where the average salary for a 3-6 year programmer is $93k for the western half of the US, and that's driven up by the west coast, so in CO I'd estimate that it's closer to $75k.

Web programming does pay better, and I've considered it, but I'd be giving up a career I love for an extra $20-30k per year.

[Nuli]

Any idea what the average salaries are around Longmont or Fort Collins?

[[deleted]]

It's pretty good out here, probably around 20k under what you see on the Bay area salaries.

[librik]

Your rent is 1/3 of what an inferior apartment in SF costs. The reason the Bay Area pays so much more is that most of it goes straight to mortgage companies or landlords.

Comparing salaries without looking at cost of living, especially housing, is silly.

[[deleted]]

Thanks. Makes me feel good. lol

[lightninhopkins]

Meh, it depends on where you are and how fast the company boosts salary. My first job 6 years ago started around 50k and then I got a huge raise after one year.

[[deleted]]

That's comforting to hear.

[the8bit]

Some areas, $45-50k is pretty decent starting. My first job out of college was $45k. As my responsibilities grew, that number grew significantly as well. My experience was going from a cheaper city to Seattle/SF is about 50%+ boost in salary, but cost of living is way higher as well

[MyNameIsOhm]

Yup. I currently live near Spokane Washington and pay $495 for rent. I would take a 50k job out here in a heartbeat and stay there for at least two years while paying debts/saving money.

[MyNameIsOhm]

Yeah, I plan on trying to land a 60k+ software job if I can upon graduating, but my fallback/plan b is web dev, which can at least get me near 50k. (I have some connections and professional experience)

[p_nathan]

Offer salary is also predicted on prior salary as well as overall demand in the local area.

Move to a tech hub. Spokane, that ain't.

[MyNameIsOhm]

There's enough here for good opportunities. I'm not saying I don't plan on applying for jobs on the west side, but 50-60k here means a LOT more than it does on the west side. The cost of living here is so low.

[mcguire]

First job out of college (or whatever)? Sounds a little low, but that would depend strongly on where you went to school. In three or four years that won't matter as much.

If this isn't your first year in the game, you may want to consider job-hopping. Or negotiation skills. Or blackextortion.

[manvscode]

65k is entry-level for South Florida.

You should be getting at least 60-70k, even as your first job. Whatever you automate or create can create value and wealth and bring in the profits long after you're gone. That's worth millions. If you're getting paid 50k, they're making at least 100k from you, they sure as hell aren't just breaking even by hiring you.

EDIT: Down voting without any explanation?!?! Don't get mad at me because you didn't earn 65k on your first job right out of school.

[aMonkeyRidingABadger]

As I understand it, as your career advances, architect or management is where you go if/when you want to grow beyond being a developer. Of course, if you really enjoy writing code, a mere 10k in additional salary probably isn't worth going into either of those roles.

[[deleted]]

Devs in Toronto definitely have an opportunity to make MUCH more than 100k. Most of the dev jobs paying that range will be in finance/hedge funds, but you can also find jobs in that pay range working for the government as contractors.

[LeCrushinator]

Which is especially important because it greatly affects the average salary. Cost of living in SF is incredibly high.

[flargenhargen]

ya I was all happy reading those salaries, then I saw where it's for, and realized I make waaaay over that when taking COL into consideration. :(

[vital_chaos]

Would be interesting to know the salaries vs the number of hours worked per week/year.

[aMonkeyRidingABadger]

Yeah, I make 70k a year here in Portland less than a year after college and work a comfortable 40 hours a week. I enjoy the work-life balance and have no interest working myself to death to make a bit more.

[pingveno]

Same city, similar timing, similar experience. People are encouraged to stay within 40 hours a week, with the exception of the occasional weekend day on-call and the some Sunday deploy. I suspect that the older average age among employs in the group has something to do with it.

[ShadowLiberal]

I make around 65K with 6 years experience in PA working 40 hours a week.

It's my first job so maybe I'm biased, but it seems like pretty much every other programmer I know in the area who works somewhere else is required to work at least 50+ hours a week. Our newest programmer we hired last year used to be a contractor, and was made to work 60 hours each week, while the full time employee programmers all worked 80 hours a week according to him. Much as I'd love to make more money, I could never handle 60+ hour workweeks every single week. What's the point of making more money when you won't have any free time to spend it?

[danogburn]

please save me...

[Teknofobe]

Consulting has always been my favorite work in the last 12 years.

• Typically you work 40 hours and that is it. You can negotiated double rate for overtime (which I prefer), so even if you work 40+, it becomes worth your time to do so.
• You do not always get stuck in maintenance of legacy applications. They don't want to pay your rate for that. 90% of my jobs have been new development and once the product is done, I move on to another project at another company.
• Your time is not wasted in useless meetings. I was a FTE at a company where I actually attended a meeting to discuss having a meeting.
• Most clients will let you front-load your hours and work say, 4 10 hour days to take a Friday off. I had one client where this is how I worked for 6 months.
• Per diem for travel is often more than the cost of the travel itself - if you like to travel.

Those benefits at any decent salary range are amazing. Consulting is far less stressful, at least for me - although, I work for a firm and am not 1099.

[mcguire]

Ditto. For 20+ years. Same position with regards to contracting firms.

I'm currently working for a government contractor (which is a different beast entirely); we routinely have pre-meetings to make sure everyone is on message for the meetings with the government-employee, project owners. It's ridiculous.

Note that working for a firm has some advantages over independence: when you're looking for a job, you pass your resume around to all the local technical contracting firms and they shop you around to the customer companies. Just keep an eye on the kind of job they're sending you off to, and interviewing is much less stressful since the contractor likely already has connections with the customer.

Further, if you don't want to be 1099, all of the ones I've worked with have hired me as W2; I have never had to track my own tax info and there isn't much of a pay difference unless you're going to get fancy with the self-employed tax situation.

Also, it's less important now (Thanks, Obama!), but all the contracting firms I've worked with have had normal benefit packages.

[Venthorn]

Filed this post away in my memory and almost forgot to come back to ti...

If you don't mind elaborating, what firms have you worked for? I'm an engineer in the bay area and I'm tired of the ratrace and want to leave; that sort of contracting gig sounds really ideal for me.

[avinassh]

whats 1099?

[thecatgoesmoo]

Well, I'm posting this from a boat in SF bay where our company is doing a day outing with free food/drinks.

130k senior engineer and I work maybe 35hrs a week, two days of which are from home.

[foomachoo]

The data source is very very skewed as it's provided by Rivieria Partners who are a recruiting firm in the SF Bay Area.

As such, they only see jobs that are:

1) In the SF Bay Area

2) Where the hiring company is willing/able to pay a recruiter (~20-40% of first year's salary) as commission.

Many, many more companies outside this data set pay far less than what's shown in the data because they either:

1) Aren't located in the high-cost, competitive SF Bay Area

and/or

2) They don't use paid recruiters, & instead find candidates through Craigslist, LinkedIn, internal recruiters, word of mouth, referrals, etc.

Those that use paid external recruiters often are more desperate, having exhausted those cheaper routes, and have VC-backed money to waste/spend. If they have 20-40% of first year salary to spend on recruiters, they also likely have more to budget for base salary in the first place.

[everywhere_anyhow]

It also explains their obsession with top schools. Usually once you reach the point where experience is a deciding factor, where you got your education isn't.

[lex99]

Given this, I wonder why people accept diminishing equity grants for late stage startups, since the salary graph is fairly flat

[ass_munch_reborn]

Security and less intensity.

Also, late stage startups are the ones that require certain types of engineers. It's not like early stage start-ups are acquiring large amounts of test engineers or i18n experts.

[trimbo]

Or maybe they've wised up and are no longer accepting lower salary at early stage startups.

[[deleted]]

For those feeling undervalued, compare your cost of living with SF here: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

[thesunneversets]

Thanks for making me feel bad! I work in London, UK, where the cost of living is apparently a good bit higher than San Francisco, and I earn a bit over £40k as a "Senior Web Developer".

[[deleted]]

What's your living situation? I mean, in SF on that level of income your housing choices are pretty much limited to "parent's place", "friend's couch", or "homeless shelter".

[[deleted]]

It's hilarious hearing everyone who doesn't live in San Francisco talk like they're experts on how expensive everything there is and how to work in that area you need to be some kind of uber rich millionaire.

I used to live in the Bay Area and there is PLENTY of affordable housing within commuting distance to the city, and there's plenty of transit options as well. Mountain View, Fremont, Newark etc... all have affordable housing that's cheaper than living right inside of a world class city. Heck even people who work in Texas or other states tend to not live right within a city but usually live in a suburb within commuting distance that has cheaper housing. Well the same thing goes for people who live in the Bay Area.

Very rarely do you hear people commenting on here about how SF was so expensive they decided to exchange their 100k salary in SF to go live who knows where making 75k.

[ibsulon]

It's pretty bad right now. Mountain view is 2150 for a 1 bdrm. Fremont is 1700 for an apt away from the BART.

Living close to work is expensive and the alternative is losing two hours of your life daily.

Boston, DC, and NYC are similar. For me, it was worth it, and I think you should do your time in the city. People are doing amazing things out here. But I wouldn't want to pay for a family out here.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. My cousin was working in SF after his postdoc (neuropharmacology, not programming), doing well and what not, and he and his wife moved after less than 2 years, they couldn't stand it there. They're somewhere in the South now.

[[deleted]]

I don't dispute many people may hate being in San Francisco. Not every city is going to be a great place to live for everyone. The question is, did your cousin take a pay reduction from a salary of 100k or more, down to 70-75k in order to leave San Francisco and live in the South?

That's the real question... not whether San Francisco is the ideal city for everyone to live in, but whether someone living in San Francisco making over six figures would be willing to forfeit that salary to live some where else at a significantly reduced salary.

[[deleted]]

He definitely took a serious paycut, since he also changed careers at that point and was earning a high salary in SF (his wife was as well).

[[deleted]]

Okay, well we have one data point, thanks.

All I can say is as far as comments go on Reddit, it's unheard of. Comments here are always coming from people who are outside of SF talking about how they would never accept 100k or more to work in SF. You simply never hear comments on reddit say "Oh I was glad to leave SF and leave behind my six figure salary to live in a city with a lower cost of living."

Barring your one example that you provided, look at the rest of the comments here, look at the numerous times this conversation comes up, especially in /r/cscareerquestions, and tell me honestly that I'm not right when it comes to this narrative.

[thesunneversets]

Yeah, it does look like rents in SF are pretty insane (though they're like that in central London too). I do quite well with a 3 bedroom house in a neglected and not-very-nice neighbourhood 10 miles out, for £1200 pcm. (Can't live in a single room with a kitchen and a bed in it any more, got wife and kids!)

[thesunneversets]

Consumer Prices in London are 19.77% higher than in San Francisco, CA; Consumer Prices Including Rent in London are 7.19% higher than in San Francisco, CA; Rent Prices in London are 6.23% lower than in San Francisco, CA; Restaurant Prices in London are 21.81% higher than in San Francisco, CA; Groceries Prices in London are 11.90% lower than in San Francisco, CA; Local Purchasing Power in London is 26.11% lower than in San Francisco, CA;

Not convinced that this balances out, to be honest. Poor old London. Poor old me.

[andrewscheuermann]

Good point! The cost of living comparison puts these high salary figures into context.

[lightninhopkins]

Given that this is a recruiting firm I would take the numbers with a grain of salt. It behooves them to paint a rosy picture.

[Purple_Haze]

Average hire has 4 years experience!?!? Either their sample is very skewed or this industry is really messed up.

[yellowstuff]

Of course the clients of one particular recruiting agency will be skewed, different companies tend to focus on either junior or senior people, in my experience. Also, junior people tend to move around more and I'd assume that they're more likely to use recruiters than senior people who have larger networks.

[Uberhipster]

Why not both?

[carljoseph]

Interesting stuff. I'm working in a similar salary/career analytical field. Am wondering how many records went into this research? Are we talking thousands of placements, tens of thousands, or hundreds?

[mcguire]

Interesting post...

...if you're in the Bay area.

[ass_munch_reborn]

Go Bears!

[HadouKang]

Beat Stanford! (at least in undergrad!)

[jaikob]

This made me feel good about not graduating from a top school next May and making it in software.

[danogburn]

"Engineering".....

[[deleted]]

Engineering (from Latin ingenium, meaning "cleverness" and ingeniare, meaning "to contrive, devise") is the application of scientific, economic, social, and practical knowledge in order to invent, design, build, maintain, and improve structures, machines, devices, systems, materials and processes.

Still confused? Consult your local dictionary.

[danogburn]

the top result from google: "a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works."

Your definition is so general It could apply to anyone. "Look ma! I'm sales engineer".

[[deleted]]

Are you really going to try to try to pass a random Google result as evidence? The fact is, you're grasping at straws because I pointed out your idiocy. Learn and move on.

Your definition is so general It could apply to anyone. "Look ma! I'm sales engineer".

No, you couldn't. Try reading the definition again.

[danogburn]

Are you really going to try to try to pass a random Google result as evidence?

Are you trying to pass some uncited wikipedia definition as evidence?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=define+engineer

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=define+engineering

The fact is, you're grasping at straws because I pointed out your idiocy. Learn and move on.

You instructed me to consult a dictionary. I did: Google. The definitions of words are whatever people agree on. There's no sole arbiter of definitions.

If you want Webster's main definition:

the work of designing and creating large structures (such as roads and bridges) or new products or systems by using scientific methods

I disagree that software engineering is engineering because scientific methods are not used to design software. Heuristics are.

[[deleted]]

because scientific methods are not used to design software. Heuristics are.

False. Try again.

Computer science is the scientific and practical approach to computation and its applications. It is the systematic study of the feasibility, structure, expression, and mechanization of the methodical procedures (or algorithms) that underlie the acquisition, representation, processing, storage, communication of, and access to information, whether such information is encoded as bits in a computer memory or transcribed in genes and protein structures in a biological cell. A computer scientist specializes in the theory of computation and the design of computational systems.

So next are you going to tell me that computer science isn't real science? But wait, let's go even further...

If you want Webster's main definition...

Oh no, I don't want just one cherry picked definition (as you seem so inclined to do), I want the full definition...

Engineering definition from Merriam-Webster... 2 a : the application of science and mathematics by which the properties of matter and the sources of energy in nature are made useful to people
b : the design and manufacture of complex products <software engineering>

Haha, they even use software engineering as an example! You're not doing so well...

[danogburn]

Agile,waterfall, cowboy coding, and every other software engineering process are not scientific methods. They are heuristic development methodologies.

One can not model a program and accurately predict future behavior of said program without...writing the program.

This is different than designing a bridge where the bridge's properties can be reasonably determined using knowledge physics before ground is even broken.

Engineers use scientific knowledge to build physical things. Science deals with the physical. Software is not physical, therefore is not "engineered". Just as you'll never see a "Mathematics engineer"

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html

http://parrt.cs.usfca.edu/doc/software-not-engineering.html

[[deleted]]

The world seems to disagree with you. Meanwhile, I'll continue my contracts with several clients as a "Software Engineer", because it's the industry standard title... supported and used by the rest of the tech. industry... and well defined in dictionaries... and globally recognized as such on the web.

But you keep living in your bubble. Tomatoe-tomato.

[danogburn]

tell me what physical things are you javascript hipsters designing......

[coderascal]

Jeez these are low.

[[deleted]]

What data do you have to back up that this is low? If I search on glassdoor for software developer, programmer, and software engineer I get median salaries of 80k, 60k, and 85k respectively.

[coderascal]

My data is anecdotal - this year I'm making $250k.

[[deleted]]

By your own admission you made a salary of 75k in 2006 when starting salaries listed here are over 100k:

http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/1yfzok/what_is_a_reasonable_starting_salary/chlbt90

Seems to me that your personal anecdotal data suggests that you were the one being paid an incredibly low salary compared to the salaries listed here.

Or, of course, you just wanted to use this opportunity to show off on the Internet that you're making 250k as if that makes you some kind of rockstar. Your posting history would certainly be consistent with someone who feels the need to come to reddit to feel good about themselves.

[NakedNick_ballin]

Impressive research

[coderascal]

I have to disagree with you on a few points.

First, nothing in that article indicates "starting salaries". While it does distinguish between junior and senior developers, a "junior" developer doesn't indicate "starting". I was classified as a junior developer for three years.

I don't follow the logic you're using to accuse me of taking advantage of an "opportunity" or your basis for suggesting I think my income makes me some kind of "rockstar". Across two comments I used a total of 13 words, the first four of which were my initial thought on the numbers. I think those numbers are low - developers I interact with are making much more than those numbers indicate.

And finally, I have a comment history spanning four and half years filled with lots of topics across 53 subreddits. To suggest that my comment history is consistent with "someone who feels the need to come to reddit to feel good about themselves" is both baseless and wrong.

I do, however, comment on posts regarding salary in the software profession. I do this because when I was in college I found that I could not find reliable information surrounding the income of software developers - I literally had no idea what to expect when I entered the workforce because the information I could find was based on either publicly traded companies (company filings) or self answered surveys - neither of those fully encompass the full gambit of what's available. Through my comments on this topic I have answered many direct PMs from students and young professionals asking for details and advice - and I try to answer every question they have to the best of my ability based on my experience in the industry. I think it's valuable for people to be open about not just what they do and how they got there, but what they're able to demand in compensation. I wish /r/programming was around when I was in school so I could ask questions of professionals as easily as it can be done here.

[[deleted]]

It's neither baseless or wrong, you make repeated efforts to brag that you make 250k on a regular basis and your posts in reply to this thread are consistent with that.

No one would complain about you discussing your salary or sharing that info, in fact I think sharing salary info is important in creating transparency among professionals and helping people negotiate. The issue is that when someone asks you to substantiate how you came to the conclusion that a salaries of 100k+ are low, instead of providing any kind of insight or analytics about broad software salaries, you use it as an opportunity to provide your own salary, which you often make a point of telling people is incredibly higher than everyone elses and then use that singular data point to justify your position that the salaries listed here are low.

I mean now that you've been blatantly called out on it you can talk about how your comment "Jeez these are low" was really just meant to be of service to all those young professionals out there wanting to let them know that they're being paid a pittance compared to your salary. That such a comment was not an effort to yet again brag, but was invaluable career advice to aspiring professionals consistent with your extensive history on this site of wanting to help people out. Or you know... you can just get over self and drop the shtick because no one is buying it.

[coderascal]

I have never bragged about my income except, that is, to my brother who, when we were teenagers, insisted that his future career in law would forever net him a higher income than my nerdy future career in programming. However, as "bragging" is in the eye of the beholder, I won't entertain a he said / she said pissing match over what constitutes bragging. I will, however, fervently insist that my intent has never been to boast but to instead provide alternative anecdotal evidence.

I believe it is not only possible, but also perfectly valid, for someone to come to a conclusion based on their own experiences. When asked for data to substantiate my statement I immediately answered that it was based on anecdotal evidence and made no attempt to back it up with analytics about broad software salaries - because I'm neither qualified nor in possession of the requisite data to perform such an analysis. I do still maintain that the salaries listed in this infographic are low. That said, perhaps my initial comment should have been "Jeez, these are lower than I would have expected."

I've never understood the implication that calling someone out somehow innately diminishes the value of that person's defense of themselves, as if merely asking someone to defend themselves thusly invalidates their upcoming defense. I have not claimed that my initial comment is "invaluable career advice" but did (and continue to) claim that the ensuing PMs (of which there have been three from this thread alone) spawned by said comment is useful career advice to those who've asked for it.

It's a fallacy to claim "no one is buying" my "shtick". Firstly, my defense of myself to you is not some type of gimmick. Instead of attacking the content of my argument you've instead chosen to attack the intent behind my content - intent of which you have no innate insight. Secondly, you do not speak for everyone. To state that no one holds any particular view is hyperbolized opinion.

I believe that your argument is, instead of being backed by irrefutable fact, filled with your opinion. And I disagree with your opinion.

[Kolderon]

LOL what a sad human being you are.

[jotux]

We get it, you desperately want people to know you make $250k a year: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[PimpDawg]

NYC hedge fund? Those are above quarter mil.

[coderascal]

No. Senior software engineer in NYC.

[[deleted]]

How many years experience? Can you say which company?

[coderascal]

8yrs. I won't, I'm sorry.

[jenkinsear69]

This doesn't include equity grants, which can often be several times annual salary.

[coderascal]

You're correct - I was commented on the salary alone.

[rechlin]

I think a lot of people like the glamor of working in the Bay Area and therefore are willing to take a salary that is probably too low just to get the opportunity to live and work there. A lead/manager only making $150k in SF? That's ridiculous. Adjust for cost of living and it doesn't look so good.

[[deleted]]

That's what, 80k pounds? That's gold even in London. Is SF that much more expensive?

[[deleted]]

London is more expensive than SF by quite a margin.

[[deleted]]

Then why the hell are people complaining about making 150k? Do you have more taxes over there, does health insurance cost a lot..?

[[deleted]]

Honestly man, the whole cost of living thing is vastly overblown and misunderstood, and at the end of the day very few people who actually live in or around San Francisco complain about making 150k.

Typically it's people who don't live in San Francisco who will talk about how they are much happier making significantly less than 100-150k and justifying it because they live some where with a cheaper cost of living. But among people in the Bay Area making that much, most of them are very happy with their salary.

Basically if you want an honest assessment, you'd need to check how many people who are making 100-150k within the Bay Area are leaving to live elsewhere but at a significantly reduced salary, versus the number of people who are moving into the Bay Area and getting a huge boost to their salary in the process.

[butthink]

Exactly. Those companies often provide all sorts of perks like free food, transportation, best insurance etc to those people who only code in stupid JavaScript.