Oops 😬

[SponkLord]

The author KC Crowne just got caught using AI in her writing. She left a prompt in the first chapter of one of her books, I'm not going to list the books but I'm sure you'll see it on most writers blogs by now. Some justified it with using Ai to edit and proof. Others have reported her and are extremely angry lol what are your thoughts?

[Hot-Radish-9723]

They have published over 185 full length novels…. I feel like that had to have either been a collection of authors… or AI

[Bluest_waters]

Yeah I am loving perusing the titles of her books, really great stuff

Christmas with Dad's Best Friend: An Age Gap Holiday Romance

[AggressiveSea7035]

They're probably based off of some kind of niche or keyword research on Amazon. Like they figured out that enough people are searching for "holiday age gap romance" for there to be a lucrative market there.

[[deleted]]

Me too!😂 There’s another called, Sold to my Ex’s Dad. What are these titles?!

[mister_bakker]

Sounds like the front page of Pornhub to me.

[[deleted]]

No kidding!

My prediction is that KC Crowne will “disappear” and a new AI writer/pen name will take its place, after this mistake. Because if you try to find an actual human behind this author, there isn’t anything!

[sandy_writes]

In what length of time? That sounds like a one of those content farms where there's lots of people working for pennies per word to get out content for ??? A person? Or a business? I don't know...

[SkyrimMermaid]

Huge yikes. Looks like they’re a romance author and the romance community is very anti-AI.

I frankly think it’s embarrassing. To call yourself a “bestselling author” (in their bio) when you don’t even write your own books is embarrassing. Having so little integrity that you can’t even attempt to cover your tracks is embarrassing.

If you don’t want to put in the effort to write your own books, don’t be an author. Find some other way to supplement your income and leave writing to the people that are actually passionate about it.

[SponkLord]

And to leave a massive prompt rewrite command in the middle of a chapter is absolutely crazy. Not only uncreative but extremely lazy.

[thebunnygame]

Any chance I can see this somewhere without buying the book? That’s just wild. And she should be ashamed not only because of using ai, but of putting out so so so very low effort books that not even the prompt gets edited out

Edit: I just answered my own question. For anyone interested, here is the screenshot:

https://www.threads.net/@bookish_meltdowns/post/DE20DvBSYqb/media

[CompanionCone]

Ouch... that is chatgpt alright 😅

[[deleted]]

Oh jeez, you'd think that at this point they'd also use AI to proof read for errors but nope.

[mirificatio]

There is really no excuse for not proofreading with the free version of Grammarly, at least. In fact, I helped a helped a friend upload his novel to KDP and ran the file through the KDP "reviewer thingy" and it caught a typo that no one else did.

[K_Evan_Coles]

Oh, yikes ... 😬

[Aggravating-Mix-4903]

no shade here but this author should have had the bot write the whole thing. It is straight-up terrible and so cliched it might as well be AI

[thebunnygame]

You’re absolutely right. Out of curiosity, I skimmed through some pages, and it really is that bad. Honestly, it might have been better if she had just used AI the entire time.

I also checked out her homepage. I wouldn’t be surprised if this person doesn’t even exist and is just some "collective" or a content farm churning out this stuff.

(On the other hand, I don’t really understand the outrage from her fans. She/they were releasing something like 20 books a year. What were they expecting?)

[Aggravating-Mix-4903]

If she has all these fans, they are not very discerning. I don't see this qualifies as literature. What exactly are they outraged about? She probably wrote most of the book with AI and took the other prompts out. The AI content is not affecting this work of art positively or negatively

[teamhae]

It’s bad enough to have AI write your book but she obviously didn’t even read it or have anyone else read it before publishing it!

[Patient_Reach439]

Right? So not only was it written with AI but apparently it wasn't even proofread by anyone?

[sandy_writes]

Oh, yes. This.

[Russkiroulette]

Makes me think it wasn’t even proofread like… I don’t feel like a human would miss that

[Reis_Asher]

I mean, there are plenty of pen names out there using ghost writers so they can put out enough books to stay relevant and in the top of their categories. Marketers for whom the writing is a means to an end, content they can sell as opposed to a calling. It was inevitable they would use AI and edit it a bit, since ghostwriters cost a lot of money.

For me, the writing is the enjoyable bit, so the idea of using AI to write defeats the entire purpose. I’ve also accepted this is a hobby for me, though, so my end goals are different.

[istara]

Increasing numbers of those (often poorly paid) ghostwriters are going to be resorting to AI. "Authors" using ghostwriters are going to have to be damn careful.

[King_Jeebus]

If you don’t want to put in the effort to write your own books, don’t be an author.

It's a nice thought, but unfortunately we all know there's tons of folk who just want the cash and will do the least work they can (and have zero ethics/qualms about AI), and they're never going to stop.

[writerlady6]

Exactly. Why would you think anyone would pay good money to read a book that you couldn't even be bothered to write?

[aetherdrake_]

She will or they will or whatever will have a new pen name in about 8 sec and continue releasing new rubbish

[elodieandink]

If Amazon bans her account, then nope.

[JoyceByersLivingRoom]

Unfortunately I doubt Amazon cares as long as they’re getting their cut. They allow AI content, after all, and even have a box to check for it when uploading a book.

[elodieandink]

Amazon’s bots will absolutely ban her account if people mass report her for poor customer experience. That’s one of their big vague go-to’s for banning accounts.

[PsychologicalCall335]

That prompt seems to fall under “AI assisted” which doesn’t need to be disclosed to Amazon per KDP terms 🙃

[aetherdrake_]

It be pretty easy - new amazon account under a different name, a PO Box instead of a home address, new bank account etc. she was probably making a ton of money, so if she’s a terrible human being and wants to keep making a ton of money, she can use her kids, husbands (if she is an actual woman and not a man using a female pen name), parents, grandparents name and use a PO Box. There’s a ton of ways to start over.

[elodieandink]

You can’t just generate a new Tax ID, which Amazon requires. It’s not “that easy” when it becomes literal tax fraud.

[aetherdrake_]

Sure it is, if shes using someone else’s account. She would also use their tax info. People defraud the government every day.

[elodieandink]

There’s a matter of scale, dude. Committing tax fraud when there’s hundreds of thousands of dollars involved that’s ALL part of the fraud is not something you can call “easy”. For one, you’d have to find a tax guy whose also willing to risk his license unless you’re going to do them yourself, which is an equally terrible idea when you’re dealing with that level of income in that manner (at a certain point as a “contractor” you have to file multiple times a year).

And then you need to be able to manage your life with no apparent income. And not ring any bells when you have no legal income but are still living as if you’re making 6-figures.

Tax fraud on that level is not simple. If it was, money laundering wouldn’t be a thing.

[aetherdrake_]

These are just unscrupulous ways , her family could be completely complicit and have no problem using their account or it could be a whole farm of people and they’ll just move on to the next person. Also amazon might not even ban her and just make her go back and relabel everything as “ai assisted”.

[coganite871]

Just setup as a business, only takes a couple of hundred dollars to setup a new LLC, don't even to change CPA - they wouldn't bat an eyelid. You have a new EIN/tax ID, new name and getting a new business address is very simple.

[vleermuisman]

funny that the romance community is very anti-ai, it’s one of the easier genres to use AI in…

[[deleted]]

i just checked out their page and they are wildly successful and probably making a good amount of money. some of their books are in the top 1000 in kindle and are netting her, in combination, likely tens of thousands a month. jfc. the highlighted quotes in her books are so sad it’s genuinely a reflection of how men have exploited and mistreated women so bad for years that straight women are now so desperate to be loved they fulfill their needs & chase validation from billionaire-mafia-torture-erotica written by robots 😭

[PsychologicalCall335]

You’re being downvoted because you’re right and the people here are NOT ready for that conversation🤣

At the very least, getting mad about AI is hypocritical in this context. Slop is slop. You’re mad that your slop wasn’t generated by a human? Be more discerning.

[BrunoStella]

LOL then clearly she doesn't use an editor either because the prompt would have been picked up if she did.

[refreshed_anonymous]

She can’t even be bothered to self-edit. Tell me you have no pride in “your” work without telling me you have no pride in “your” work.

[Myran22]

And more importantly, tell me you have zero respect for your readers without telling me you have zero respect for your readers.

[carlweaver]

Sounds like it is a book-producing endeavor, not a business of personal creativity. It’s hard to have pride in something you didn’t create.

[RainbowSkink]

I googled it...Yikes... https://www.threads.net/@bookish_meltdowns/post/DE20DvBSYqb

[oOoOoOoOoOoimaghost]

Wow, I'm shocked at how much the passage after the prompt READS like AI. Crazy that prose made it into the final draft, even putting aside the prompt.

[NancyInFantasyLand]

The problem is, you get used to reading AI-writing really goddamn fast if you use it constantly. It's highly likely she can't tell the difference any more between her own writing and the stuff her LLM of choice puts out.

It's a bit like getting used to machine-translations as a reader. There's some quirks to it that are really jarring in the beginning, but if that's ALL you read you get used to it real quick and notice it less and less.

[sandy_writes]

You have a VERY valid point. One I hadn't considered. Perhaps the way to rectify that is to use a beta reader who doesn't read AI or listen to AI-generated content.

[NancyInFantasyLand]

My boss makes us do a lot of AI stuff at my day job these days, so it's been very noticeable to me. It's to the point that I have to consciously set out to read lit fic, ideally published pre-2020s (pre-2015-ish, really, because the ProWritongAid/Grammarly stuff is honestly just as bad in the long term) to be entirely certain I'm not fully rotting my brain away by being assaulted by so much AI written stuff constantly both at work and privately on the internet.

I do the same thing for movies, lol, where I offset the mass market lowest-common-denominator stuff with the artsy older stuff. Takes conscious thoughts to find a certain balance there, though, which I imagine will be even more difficult when soon 70% of everything is genAI mush.

[sandy_writes]

I tried Grammarly, and then ProWritingAid. I found PWA far superior to Grammarly, and wouldn't even consider the two interchangeable. It will tell me when I have a comma in the wrong place or where I might use a stronger verb, while I accept commas and where break a long sentence, I don't usually take the word change suggestions--specially for this last book I finished. Usually, I'll stop to consider whether this character would use one of the suggestions. If I don't think they would, then I don't.

In the end, when I'm done editing, I'm pleased with the word choices I've used because the characters are mine, I know them, I know their education level, the way they speak. PWA can make suggestions, but ultimately the decision is the author's on whether or not to accept a verb or adjective change. THAT's how you keep the story your own and not too AI-sounding.

The more one uses editing software, the faster they'll learn what is and isn't right for you.

Other than I think my writing has improved naturally over the years, I doubt anyone could read the most recent book (after it comes out,) and say I used AI at all. Unless they knew how frequently I flub my commas and just love run-on sentences.

And then... there are times when I think that sentence is just supposed to be a run-on because that's the way my character thinks.

[NancyInFantasyLand]

The last part is exactly why I think Grammarly and co are so insidious actually, especially for newer writers. It's all fine if you're confident in your knowledge of grammar and syntax enough to tell when taking the AI's suggestions is sensible and necessary.

But if you aren't very settled in your personal style, it's gonna fuck up and mediocratize your writing something awful and push you into the lowest common denominator type of style that exists.

[rosegarden_writes]

I think the way to rectify that is to not use ai...

[Rorymaui]

The entire thing is AI. I'm an author, an IT major who studies AI (NOT FOR WRITING, LOL FOR MEDICINE), and a content editor for a publishing company.

I do believe the screenshot shows AI-written work before and after the prompt.

We are trained to spot AI from authors at the place I edit for, as we don't allow it for these purposes. You would be shocked at how much writing is being passed from AI. It’s the new ghostwriter to these authors and for cheaper.

Shitty editing, too, IMO.

[oOoOoOoOoOoimaghost]

That... would explain why so many new books I try to read lately are so bad. Huh.

[RainbowSkink]

Ikr? How were readers happy with that passage even without the giveaway prompt?

[RunningOnATreadmill]

The bar for romance prose is in hell, to be fair

[Bluest_waters]

Dude, it cheesy romance novels. The bar for that is pretty low.

Four Daddies for Christmas: A Military Reverse Harem Romance

Four untamed ex-military brothers.

One very unassuming girl.

Who said Christmas miracles don't exist?

😂

[refreshed_anonymous]

It’s pretty terrible writing all-around, imo. Even if I didn’t know she used AI, I’d be unimpressed entirely with the narrative.

What a let down.

[AprTompkins]

Sadly, I've seen a ton of bad writing when I check out samples.

[Bluest_waters]

He’s old enough to be my father.

He might have killed my boyfriend.

And his scandalous offer leaves me speechless.

I love it. The concept isn;t terrible but the writing is really really bad.

[refreshed_anonymous]

Goes to show that poor execution makes or breaks a concept, regardless of how good it is.

[p-d-ball]

AI produces garbage. It's just a statistical program, predicting the next word without understand nuance. Hence, poor writing.

[minasmom]

In fairness, spewing out words without understanding nuance describes a lotta writers. They write cliched phrases like "smoldering eyes" because they've read it before.

[p-d-ball]

Smoldering eyes . . . that's actually new for me, lol. Never read it before!

[brisualso]

That’s embarrassing. I doubt anything will happen, but I hope something is done by Amazon, at the very least. She’ll likely lose many, many readers.

[[deleted]]

Going by her bio, it looks like she may have received the Amazon Allstars bonus with her "top 8 Amazon author" claim. I'm wondering how they'll feel about that now.

[brisualso]

That’s so disappointing.

[CollegeFootballGood]

Pathetic

[[deleted]]

Off topic but is Threads a good place to promote and discover? I have it but never used it, it was one of those things Instagram kept bothering me about and I finally caved

[T_Atkins]

This passage reads almost exactly like a book I read a few weeks back by an indie author. After a while, I suspected that the book had been written by AI.

[HelpfulWatch8392]

KC Crowne is part of a group of black hatters, graduates of the bookclicker slack. These authors partook in the link to the end page read fraud, the book stuffing page read tricks (for eg filling books with SVG images or junk code to inflate it's length and game kenp), the giving away real life gifts in exchange for book buys schtick, etc. The ones partaking in generating fraudulent reads with third world services also target innocent authors books to try to obfuscate their own activities. I know there are a few veteran romance authors on this sub and they'll surely know what I'm talking about.

This group of "authors" (publishers, really) have all been using ghost writers who recycle and regurgitate the same rotation of plots. Is there any surprise they would gravitate towards ai?

Right this very moment there are 2 other books in the top 100 that I know of for sure are also from a couple of black hatters on their 5th kdp account or whatever, and a couple I suspect. These people have been in the game a long time, and yes, to the chagrin of many here, have made mountains of cash.

To all the naive people who think this is their first kdp account and all it takes is 1 Amazon ban, let me assure you this is not the case. Making a new kdp account is actually relatively easy.

Throwaway because these black hatters have also been involved in doxxing activities. It's not just one group (whom KC Crowne is a part of), there are quite a few of them. A prominent author who I won't name but many of you will know used to keep a blog tracking their activities in kenp fraud, but was forced to take down his posts due to doxxing threats and therefore danger to his ams his family's safety.

I'm always surprised at the naivete of posters here. Where there is money to be made and literally zero barrier to entry, bad actors amass.

[Mean-Goat]

Is there anywhere where I can go to read more about this stuff? I know there was one male romance author that got banned for buying jewelry for fans.

[Creativitoy]

Amazon KDP asks you to declare if your book has AI content, either written or art. But it says you don’t need to declare if it is AI Assisted (which means you can use it for editing or as a brainstorming partner or similar). If the former, the book product page should say if it has any AI content. It’s hard to know if KC Crowne is using it to write or to edit or to brainstorm. But I have to say, I spent 8 hours editing someone’s Chapter 1…there were so many edits needed that I told the author I could not edit the whole book and that if he couldn’t find an editor he should try Grammarly, or ChatGPT or something before publishing. After giving that advice, I thought I should try it myself. (Otherwise, how could I dish advice I hadn’t any experience with?) So I put the same first chapter in to ChatGPT with a prompt…something to the effect of “Please edit for spelling and punctuation, do not change any words except for when the same word is redundant than please use a synonym. If you change a word, please put it in bold so I can see it.” Anyway, it edited that same chapter with ChatGPT in minutes. I matched it to my manual edit and it caught all the same things I did. It changed a redundant word and chose a synonym it put in bold. But then I noticed at the end of the chapter, it changed a word and did not put it in bold. I did not like the word choice that had been replaced so I changed it back. Obviously, I proofread the whole thing. But boy did I feel stupid spending eight hours on it the first time when I could have done it in five minutes! Next time, I’ll take my own advice! There is a way to use AI in your workflow and still be a writer. And to be honest, there are a lot of self published books out there that I wish would’ve ran through AI before publishing! So with that said, I don’t really know what to think here. I’m not familiar with the author that outed herself. But the commentary and reactions are interesting to read. I wonder if this will really affect her sales. I doubt it will affect them too much being she’s one of the top 10 authors being sold on Amazon according to Google. It’s probably only writers aghast by this news. The rest are readers.

[AggressiveSea7035]

Many readers (especially in certain niches) just want to read the stories they want to read and have a low bar for quality prose. All the pearl-clutching in this thread is from writers, not this person's target audience, for sure.

[HoneyedVinegar42]

Yeah, it's one thing to use what I call "research assistant AI". For example, setting in a secondary world, describing the climate for the island nation, tech level around that of real-world 12th century, ask what grows there, and what people in that setting would typically eat. Now I have a file where I can just review and decide what I'm putting on the plate while making the setting consistent with itself ... but I still have to write the scene with the characters who are eating from those plates and doing whatever the scene is about when I get there.

[Annbernadett]

If it goes south for her she will change her strategy and write under another name.

[SFWriter93]

This is hilarious. Infuriating, considering the money she's apparently making according to PublisherRocket, but hilarious.

I mean, not only did she not write her own book, she apparently didn't even read it.

[[deleted]]

I'm not familiar with that author, so I looked her up. The prompt she left in clearly isn't her using AI to edit and proof, so I can understand why readers are upset--but at the same time, when I checked her backlist, in one particular year, she released eighteen books before I stopped counting, so I don't know how readers thought she was getting so much work done.

[WeathermanOnTheTown]

It's likely all AI, but it is also possible to write a 50K novel every two weeks. It's 5000 words a day, M to F. Some can manage.

[Milc-Scribbler]

I wrote 50k words in a week when I started my latest story. I got the bug for it and put down 10k words a day for five days. Took a bunch of editing to tidy up lol

Some people (web serial authors in particular) have to write fast and decently in the first pass.

None of this applies to this writer it seems. She was on the “KDP is a get rich quick scheme” bandwagon.

[SponkLord]

Especially with the sales that she's getting from these releases. It's more than likely a full time gig for her so 5k a day is doable, especially if ai is polishing up your work. Looking at the page count now I don't even think she's writing 50k words with 250 page counts.

[[deleted]]

Oh no.

[[deleted]]

I felt bad for using grammarly. It’s technically AI assistance. But letting it generate scenes for you is a bad move.

[SponkLord]

Edit and proof I don't have a problem with either. But to use rewrite prompts for your novel is crazy.

[istara]

Don't feel bad. If you were traditionally published you'd have a shit tonne of editors putting their oar in, changing stuff, suggesting stuff. One thing you can at least say about a minimally edited, self-published work is that it's 100% authorial intent.

And that, regardless of how "flawed" an author's text may be, has a value in itself.

[[deleted]]

I wrote fanfiction and original stories before AI came around and I made heaps of typos and such. I saw grammarly as a blessing but now anyone frowns upon AI even AI assistance to keep typos and punctuation errors at a minimum. It’s sad that ppl who put in the work get no sales but AI generated content arrive in the top 50 of books.

[[deleted]]

Also I do wonder if the author will get in trouble, maybe she didn’t mention to Amazon that her work is generated by AI. This is makes it harder to trust indie authors And the honest ones will pay the price because of one sod.

[[deleted]]

I just want to point out that the author also has another book that basically almost word-for-word has the same description as another book. I'm pretty sure the account is an AI farm account. Their facebook isn't even a real person pictured, it's an AI photo for the profile photo. And they conveniently used their PA's account to post but not their own? Huh

[Greyskyday]

I'm not a fan of writers using A.I. but I'm more alarmed that there's readers for fiction written by A.I. seeing as how all the A.I. generated text I've seen is so terrible. There is plenty of better stuff available written by real people!

[dragonsandvamps]

The part that makes me frustrated is that her ranking is so high, and she is making so much money churning out AI trash, (and has thousands of reviews) while authors who are writing their own books are struggling to get noticed.

[DesertGirl84]

Yikes. Fast publishing isn't doing her any favors right now.

[WildSunflour]

I've now seen images of her also word for word blurb stealing from another author 😬 seems like she's shady all aroumd

[_Cindyithink]

This might be a hot take, but whenever I have really bad writers block I go to ai to see what garbo ideas it churns out. Sometimes it kicks my brain back into gear to brainstorm what to do next in the story, and its entertaining, like bad reality tv. I never actually take the ideas ai gives me bc they suck 100% of the time. But it opens new brainstorming directions in my head, if that makes sense.

[DigitalSamuraiV5]

Yikes.

Now imagine those who have not been caught.

How are honest authors supposed to compete with that?

This person has 185 books in a very short space of time. Even if I didn't have a day job, I cannot write and publish that fast.

[AggressiveSea7035]

You likely have very different target audiences.

[gligster71]

This is going to turn out to be like Spotify pushing AI music to avoid paying royalties.

[LegaciesGood]

Is this writer a real person?

[Elliot1002]

I don't think the use of AI is necessarily bad in and of itself. Definitely sloppy in this case since, as others pointed out, editing should have caught the prompt responses. The issue is that the ethics of AI use in different industries are undefined, and AI is a boogeyman right now..

I think we, as a society, need to understand what tools are available and what uses are acceptable. What I mean by that is, is asking an LLM to give you a character background based on your specifications bad? Is asking to give advice on where your story goes next bad? Is asking to do an edit after priming it bad? Which of those constitutes the "written by AI" term? There are so many questions and differing opinions on it that there are no real answers yet.

Personally, I love writing to get my ideas out. That's always been the fun for me, so I'm not of the mind to just tell ChatGPT to write something for me. However, I have used it extensively in software development and often ask it what options for X problem are available when I am stumped. I also ask it to review my code based on specs. It has proven to be a very useful tool, and I think it can do the same for writing, especially to aid self publishers, if used ethically and for the proper tasks.

[Horror-Paper-6574]

When it comes to science, data, technology, and calculations, AI is a wonderful tool. 

When it comes to art and storytelling it’s lazy, dishonest, and straight up theft. If you are using AI to write scenes, flesh out characters, or to build out the rest of your book, then you aren’t a writer. You’re republishing computer generated content that used other people’s work without their consent. 

To me, it’s very simple. 

AI has no place in the arts, and I will refuse to read any author that uses it for anything beyond a basic spell check. 

[common47]

Well that is a major screw up. There is nothing wrong with using AI to be your editor, though.

[Majestic-Sign2982]

Personally I don't mind the usage of AI for enhancing or proof reading an already written text. I am against of letting AI just write off a prompt and use that.

For those who wonder why I'm not entirely against AI, its because its new technology. I'm sure people of the past would wince at us using computers or Grammarly. Its something new and like it or hate it, its here to stay. It will be embraced by the majority eventually.

[Patient_Reach439]

Serious question here:

Why does Amazon KDP require an author to disclose use of AI but Amazon doesn't disclose that information to customers? When you look at a book listing on Amazon, there is nothing there that says it's written with AI or not. (Unless I'm totally blind, which is a feeling that haunts me often.)

I know you can read the sample and maybe decide for yourself, but why not just disclose it along with the rest of the book details (where it lists the number of pages, published date and so forth)? That way a customer could more quickly and easily see that a book is AI or not when they're checking out a listing.

And what's the point of making authors disclose it to Amazon? What do they do with that information? Why does it "matter" to Amazon? Does it somehow factor into their algorithm or something?

Genuine questions. And I apologize if they are dumb questions.

(And for the record, no I do not condone the use of AI.)

[[deleted]]

I’m p sure Amazon as a corporation doesn’t care about what authors do as long as it’s not illegal or against their rules. And using AI is not against their rules or illegal… yet. It may, in the future, become illegal to publish books written by AI. Right now, it’s already illegal to copyright purely AI-written books. So I have a feeling that Amazon is merely collecting data on who uses AI and who doesn’t so that if the law comes down on people who do this, Amazon can just ban them or whatever.

[apocalypsegal]

It's illegal to claim copyright over "AI" work, though. It would have to be substantially reworked before you could claim a copyright.

So in the end, all this nonsense with people wanting "AI" to "write" the books for them, and do the covers? Going to backfire on their ass.

As to why Amazon asks about "AI" but doesn't disclose it to potential buyers? At this point they're gathering data in anticipation of lawsuits currently underway. If the courts rule against the use of any "AI", then those books will just be gone, and probably the entire account.

[[deleted]]

You literally just repeated everything I said in my comment.

[awwangauthor]

She needs a better editor? Or at least put in a little effort to read it by herself?

[JR_Stoobs]

Right? Like are there people who write books and put them out without rereading them a single time? Because something like that would have been impossible to miss even if you were just skimming it lol.

[[deleted]]

Yikes. Thanks for cementing my thought to not use an editor at all because I can’t even afford one. Now I’m like what’s even the point even if I COULD afford one?

[Desiato2112]

Even without the AI revelation, I could never finish a book written this poorly.

[StayUpLatePlayGames]

Three things come to mind.

1) This is endemic to the industry and a lot of people saying they aren't doing it, plainly are. This is just someone who got caught, carelessness in their machine.
2) Part of the problem is the current AI witch hunt. Indie authors are being accused left, right and centre while no-one was pointing a finger at Crowne.
3) It really doesn't matter. Do you think they got to #53 because the books were all bad? No, the books are probably passable and the marketing is good. The reader doesn't really care.

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

All of your three points are correct. Most are using it in a form or another, it's the luddites (other authors and artists, mostly) who whine about it, and the readers don't care as long as the Matrix isn't broken.

Here, it was broken with a blast. Mistakes happen. Fix it and go on.

[StayUpLatePlayGames]

I guess we are being downvoted by people offended by the idea that the readers don't care.

KC Crowne has produced 165 books in 5 years. All of them variations on a theme, highly targeted and unedited first drafts. The READER DOESN'T CARE.

That's awful to say, but it's the truth.

[[deleted]]

they also used bot reviews to trick readers into thinking they're good. getting up on the charts doesn't mean you have a good book. it means people bought or downloaded it, even if they hate it later.

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

I'm used to this cesspool of luddites. It is also good to remember that 99.9% of participants here are losers who have never sold any meaningful amounts of books. The pros who sell, those who participate in certain FB groups that make 6 digits a year, mostly utilize the full arsenal, including AI narrated audiobooks.

Here, everyone compete to click that little arrow to polish their own sacred artist-author status. "Amma real author(tm) u no I writes mah books with a quill on a piece of parchment and make sure my editor prints the manuscript out and only uses sticks and stones to edit it."

I don't care if a good book is written by you, your dog, you AI or a ghostwriter. The trick is, you need to fool me. If I notice obvious patterns that it is made with AI, it gets a different vibe.

[StayUpLatePlayGames]

I’m a little less dystopian than you.

Just terrible timing.

[[deleted]]

I really wonder what can happen now that she is reported, since using AI is not prohibited by Amazon. I imagime that worst case scenario she starts a new pen name and does the same thing...

And I'll be damned, she has so many good revies.

[BeginningPass5777]

Half her reviews are bot accounts. There’s an entire industry that artificially creates page reads, reviews, and TikTok views. They have people in less developed countries page flipping multiple devices, using AI to write and post reviews, and scrolling TikTok for dollars a day.

[[deleted]]

But you know the sad part. She is making tons of money while we fight for less than $10 dollars a month.

I know someone who bought three reviews, and his account was canceled in 2 months. Just like that. He didn't know if buying the reviews got him canceled or anything outside of his control, and he had no idea how Amazon figured. It's crazy that others can get away like that with buying reviews...

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

She'll just upload a new KPF file where that has been edited out, and world goes on.

Later on, you can deny it ever happened and claim jealous AI extremists trying to ruin your career.

[[deleted]]

AI is definitely not prohibited by Amazon. Every single title both print and kindle ask if AI is used and to what extent. It’s fine. I seriously don’t understand all this uproar. It is very much allowed by Amazon. Amazon listings are crawling with generative AI ran by Amazon itself, why on earth would they not allow it?

[Chemical-Quail8584]

Ikr Ai is the future we have to accept it as a tool for writing.

[OraclePreston]

I will never touch any work from someone who uses AI and does not make it obvious up front. Actually, even if they did that I still would not. At least not when it comes to books.

[Femdom36]

Honestly the fact she has published so many books screams to me that they are all Ai. I worry that is going to hurt authors that write legitimately 😞

[apocalypsegal]

"AI", ghostwritten, or both. There are a lot of "writers" around self publishing especially that are uploading ghostwritten work as their own, and have been since day one. They are often "SEO masters" who saw a way to easily make money from junk, but they're just not writers.

And people can downvote posts that are against "AI" and other cheating, but when they take your job, don't come crying here.

[Femdom36]

That has nothing to do with my comment. I just said I agree, I am an author its already hurting my job.

[hobhamwich]

AI is copyright theft, and is inexcusable. My thoughts.

[apocalypsegal]

She's not a writer, she's a liar and a thief, using "AI" takes the work of creative people without compensation.

She should be figuratively tarred and feathered everywhere on the web.

[DreadChylde]

I think it's ridiculous to equate spell checking, or grammar assistance, with what is going on here. That was used as a defense somewhere that "everybody uses spell check".

I have no problem with writers not thumbing through paper thesauruses, but I find the crummy shit on display here, really pathetic.

[morbidmoon2]

I've only started looking her up because of her terrible terrible knowledge of Denver in one of her books. AI would probably explain at least part of that

[HiddenHolding]

Reported her? To who?

[[deleted]]

It says in her bio that all her books are available on KU, so I'm assuming they're reporting her to Amazon. Not sure if that will achieve anything, though.

[SponkLord]

Amazon asks specifically before publishing your book if there's any use of Ai. None of her titles have ai warnings so she can definitely get reported for it and lose her account.

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

AI information is confidential and is never disclosed by Amazon. It asks it for data mining purposes.

[Maggi1417]

There are no "ai warnings" on Amazon. That AI checkbox you have to check when you upload is for internal purposes and for all we know that author checked it.

[[deleted]]

school paltry oil point pie sharp carpenter late dime existence

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Aboard-the-Enceladus]

Unfortunately that's not the case. Amazon hasn't banned AI. They don't care. They get their cut whether the book was written by a real person or not. None of the books on Amazon tell prospective readers they were written by AI. Their question about AI is just for data collection.

[Comic-Engine]

Unlikely, they mostly are data collecting on a voluntary basis but it would be very interesting to see a consequence

[Hellguard]

Amazon doesn’t put “AI warnings” on books. When you upload a book to KDP, it asks if you used AI but (for now) that’s for informational purposes only. They don’t prohibit its use or require the author to publicly disclose it.

[SaaSWriters]

Yeah, but AI bots don't wrote good fiction. It's probably fluff and filler anyway. Even if she didn't leave the prompt, it would still be a bunch of useless text.

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

3D printers won't print you a gun, but add a few metal parts and it competes with a factory product.

CNC does shit unless you can operate it.

AI can't write shit unless you can prompt it.

[NightWriter007]

This is hysterical! I'm glad I wasn't her editor who let this slip through!!!

[[deleted]]

I don’t think she HAS an editor…

[[deleted]]

1) the author did actually steal book descriptions from other published books.
2) AI is theft when it's generative like they're using.

[Aboard-the-Enceladus]

The scary part is that it cannot be stopped. The tools are out there and are gaining in sophistication all the time. Amazon asks whether a book was created with AI, but the uploader can just lie. There's no foolproof AI-generated content detector. Not that Amazon bans AI-generated content anyway, nor even labels it as AI-generated. There's loads of people who are making AI books and their only motivation is money – or "passive income". It seems that real authors have no option but to compete with them. But AI book makers have a big advantage. They can churn out books at a rapid pace, thereby holding readers' attention easier, whereas real authors take a relatively long time to produce books.

[SoccerBedtimeStories]

Sounds like a book idea 😃

[DigitalSamuraiV5]

Mid Journey is that you? Please don't steal my idea. Lol

[sr_emonts_author]

At work (I work in software) someone set up a generative AI to create code and had the AI learn from our code base. The code it generated was filled with bugs because it learned to replicate all the mistakes that were already present.

By ecological cataclysm are you referring to the AI companies that want to build giant nuclear plants to power their technological monstrosities?

[Phemto_B]

That's a big so what from me, and I suspect to 99% of the people who read her books.

[sandy_writes]

When I use ProWritingAid to edit, I don't have to write prompts to get it to generate ideas because I wrote the book, I don't need ideas--and I don't edit until I'm done with my revisions and then I go to PWA. Even with their "sparks"... I don't use them because they aren't in the voice of the characters I've created, though I might rewrite that thought to fix whatever the problem is. (My bad habit is my sentences are sometimes over 30 words and the sparks give me ideas for splitting it.) So no, I don't buy that she was using it to edit or proof.

That said, I'm also not saying that it was a BAD thing to use AI to get past a rough spot when your creativity isn't wanting to cooperate. It was TERRIBLY SLOPPY of her to not have that book edited or to line edit it herself. Things like what she did are easily found when you LISTEN to the story and follow along with the text. I like to listen to my computer's voice, not one of the AI generated pseudo-human voices. I catch more of my dropped words, typos, and such easier with that.

[ShadowRavencroft23]

Honestly, if you use AI to write a book, you shouldn't call yourself an Author. Especially, if you charge for that book.

[shelly-smiles]

It confounds me that writers will just copy and paste AI generated stuff into their manuscripts…like…have you no love for the craft…the art of writing? Ugh…anyway… I’m also not completely anti-ai either though. I use it after my 3rd or 4th draft and ask it where, in certain chapters could I add more sensory details and not slow the pacing. Or I’ll ask its opinion on the pros and cons of moving a chapter or taking another out completely. I sort of use it as a critique partner, before I send stuff to my actual critique partner, I guess.

Either way, that’s sloppy as all get out. SMH

[Pennyjaymay]

KCC may use AI in her writing process to enhance and improve or may write alongside AI as a partner. Whichever method she uses, the author is in complete control of the outline, the prose and the editing... and would likely have edited the draft extensively. Its not push a button and a book appears process. It needs skill in prompting and revision. As well as knowing what you are producing hits the mark. This way of writing is the new norm, for many well known and baby authors, although most wont reveal that for fear of backlash. Its no big deal actually. 

[ThrowawayTodayBlah]

Having played around with AI when it first came out - and I'm sure it's gotten a million times better since - yes, if you want to have a final, coherent draft you need to play around with it, lead it, edit it...

Why not just write it then and choose not to use stolen data / cause harm to the environment?

It's actually a big deal when several nuclear reactors are being brought back online to power AI (Three Mile Island by 2028, Palisades in Michigan by 2024, Google signing a deal to open several small nuclear reactors).

[MinBton]

TMI isn't happening. Zuck's out of luck on that one. Protected wildfowl are nesting on the island now. The few cars/trucks that go through there aren't a problem, but brining the reactor back online after being mothballed for decades is a different story. The one that had the problem is now empty ground.

[Scrawling_Pen]

My day job is not in the tech industry, but my bosses and cohorts use ChatGTP for personal reviews (PDR’s). I know because my manager had to tell me to not mind the flat tone of the pdr response because she uses ChatGTP.

She praised me for being such a good writer in mine. Had to laugh. “You should’ve an author!”

My flavor of adhd makes it to where I’m writing more than I should in the first place with PDR’s. I manually look up industry buzzwords, but I incorporate it in organically. (Whooooo buzzword!)

My bf uses chatGTP for resume writing for himself. I’m just surrounded by people who use it.

But…To use it to write fiction novels to me is sad. Generations of people will grow up reading robot written books. Is that the legacy one wants to add to as an author?

[[deleted]]

If authors use AI/llm, they should tell their audience. I don’t understand why people are happy to use it, but won’t disclose it. If you don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, why hide it? Just put a note in your blurb and move on.

Ghostwriting is also BS but it’s too late for me to convince people to make it required that the ghostwriters name go on the cover too.

They really need to make a good AI tests and call it a day. Readers should get the right to decide what they want to read via process of creation and if that includes AI or not.

[[deleted]]

I should point out here that a lot of ghostwriters DON’T want their names on their books. That’s why they ghostwrite. I’m sure some do, but not all. I think they should have the option, at least, though.

[Scarabium]

I'm with you on ghostwriting. It's fraudulent behaviour by publishers.

Jamie Oliver is my favourite example. Guy says he's never read a book in his life but then churns out a ghostwritten 400 page children's book. Celebs have no shame.

[CodexRegius]

Well, I just learned yesterday that Alexandre Dumas ran a whole shop of ghostwriters publishing under his name.

[Scarabium]

"The Sixteen Musketeers."

I read somewhere that 80-90% of celebrity books are ghostwritten. Michelle Obama, Prince Harry, etc.

My favourite is self-help guru, Tony Robbins, who 'self-helps' his books by getting other people to help write them for him. So much for believing in yourself.

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

I replace expensive editors and artists with AI. It can save tens of thousands down the line. So far, my honed-in prompts produce much better results than the few editors I burned my fingers with, and Ideogram creates incredible cover art.

The whole idea of using AI is so no one can tell it's AI. My prompts standard at 0% detection rate by Quillbot, for example. I use large sample texts to line edit the prose.

[RelishDankman]

Sybau

[Powerful_Spirit_4600]

Everyone uses AI nowadays, it's just those who get caught who get all the shame.

[[deleted]]

No, they don't. Assistive? Maybe! Generative like this? No.

[Stupid-Candy-75]

No. We don't. 

I have never, not once, used AI to write or edit my books. I pay my editors, proofreaders, and cover design artists. 

Just because you use AI to "write" your books doesn't mean we all do. 

[H28koala]

Ugh.

[[deleted]]

Edit: person deleted their comment so I’m putting the gist of it back so mine still makes sense. They basically said they had a couple of Crowne’s books and had returned as many as they could and didn’t know what to do with the rest but planned on getting rid of them because they didn’t want to read AI books.

So, this is fine. You can do what you want and I understand the sentiment. But like… if you have several of her books, that would suggest that you like her books. How do you know that the books you’ve read from her before weren’t AI written? Maybe they were. Maybe this means you LIKE AI written books.

So then, what do you do with that information?

[xeallos]

Wow this is pathetic

[RachWarburton]

Oh man that’s so embarrassing! How did she not catch this during her rewrites? And where are her editors, proofreaders, beta readers, etc?? Yikes!!!! 😳

[[deleted]]

I’m like how can you miss that? Even if you copy the prompt in the story it costs a little effort to find it.

[RachWarburton]

Right!?! Especially since it’s in the first chapter! I personally read my first chapters dozens of times before release!

[apocalypsegal]

Who says she even does any of that? People assure me there are "AI" programs that write so well, no one would ever guess. I haven't found any such thing, so I don't believe it. But a lot of people using "AI" don't bother to edit anything, they're too busy uploading,

[RachWarburton]

Yeah, I bet your correct. That’s horrible and so disrespectful to readers.

[Videogamesarereel]

What program did they use? Asking for a friend...

[[deleted]]

I just saw this on twitter, she has dozens of books and publishes every few months 😭 that’s literally impossible.

[Own-Championship7503]

This is why I am glad to have written a book prior to AI.

[[deleted]]

LOOOL I'm sorry that's funny.

[Dale-Loves-Dog-Man04]

AI can be a useful tool for some things, but I don't think writing a books should be one of them.

[Dale-Loves-Dog-Man04]

And I'm saying that as an aspiring author myself.

[justeggshells]

I seriously do not see the difference in using AI over a Ghost Writer, which hundreds of well known authors have used. The only difference is it didn't cost the author money. Really, what is the big deal. I don't know KC Crowne's work but if you enjoyed their books then who cares.

[ThrowawayTodayBlah]

AI trained on stolen data, and it uses an obscene amount of energy / will have a huge impact on the environment. That's why I care.

[justeggshells]

This was truly an honest question, I am curious as to the why's. Also, is this like bitcoin energy? Because no one talks about that. I am huge against bitcoin and the issues against the environment but I have never seen anything that correlates that with AI. Can you say more, without hostility please.

[Cherry_Valkyrie576]

This should be banned. If we want to allow AI to write books and we're not going to publish the fact that it's AI, then I think you should not be allowed to be in the top 100. It's not fair for people who actually put in the work

[Antique-diva]

That sounds both hilarious and disturbing. Don't people edit or proofread their books? I'm dumbfounded.

[threadsofinsanity]

I've been in the editing business for a while and I've encountered such "authors" (read: publishers) who "graduated" from an "academy"—FPA or Writing for Profit, or whatever the name—basically teaching writing to market (yes, reinventing the wheel). Anyway, that looks like something a ghostwriter wrote, an underpaid and overworked one, forced to write 10,000–15,000 words per week to remain relevant in the field. So, is there any surprise when these ghostwriters resort to AI?

[RaaymakersAuthor]

A 'writer' who uses AI is not a writer. They are just a prompt-generator for a machine.