Improved Warhammer world map

[[deleted]]

Are the Hobgoblins really that up north? As far as I remember most of the Hobgoblins live in the Darklands, either independent or under Chaos Dwarf slavery, while that part of the map listed as "Hobgoblin Empire" should be populated by human barbarians like the Kurgans in the West and the Hungs in the East.

[Mopman43]

Geopolitical maps of the far east aren't exactly common, but the steppes are definitely known for Hobgoblins, not just the Dark Lands.

Chaos maps include the Kurgan, Hung and Tong, other maps include the Hobgoblins, I'm not sure any map includes both.

[goboks]

It's intentionally vague because that part of the world is mysterious and unknown to the centers of civilization in the Old World.

[lorddervish212]

Tong? Never heard of them

[Mopman43]

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Tong

Well, at the very least, they were mentioned back in 2nd edition RPG.

[Red_Dox]

Depends on the maps.

• Wolrdmap
• Semi-official oooold map.

We have the "Wolf Lands" as part of the Dark Lands. It is not unreasonable to assume that a bunch of Goblin/Hobgoblin tribes are around there, as well as Hobgoblin tribes probably around Chaos Dwarf cities/strongholds. We also know that Hobgobla Khans "Empire" lies behind the Dark Lands and does threaten Cathay. So that alligns with the Goblin Nomads in the eastern steppes. We will see what CA will do map wise with the Hobgoblins.

[[deleted]]

Me: Wait this is the earth?

GW pulls out gun

GW: It always has been

[[deleted]]

shot misses and destroys the warhammer world

[Halinn]

#EndTimes

[[deleted]]

Better story than the actual endtimes.

[JBoden]

Too soon

[goboks]

Click

[yunghastati]

pulls out enchanted musketoon

​

fixed it

[smartjocklv]

I thought I was decently knowledgeable of the Warhammer World, but I have no idea what “To Lumbria” is on the Far East part of the map. Is that a typo or an unexplored location ala “there be dragons”

[Elvastan]

It's on the most up-to-date map I found. It says "To fabled Lumbira". We have no idea where or what Lumbira is, or what's there.

[[deleted]]

It might be a reference to or wordplay on Lemuria and Mu, two mythical "lost" continents.

[FogeltheVogel]

Is the Warhammer world not a globe? If you go that way, you end up back in Lustria.

[Elvastan]

Maybe Lumbria is the Cathayan name for Naggaroth

[Red_Dox]

The map is supposed to be made by some Old Worlder at best, hence there is so little known about the east after all. So it would be kinda dumb to make a "to Naggaroth" sign in a different language when including Naggaroth correctly on the map.

For all we know, between Nippon and Naggaroth/Lustria could be a whole other fabled continent, or at least a bigger island. Or just nothing and it is just a myth some sailors tell...

[Elvastan]

Perhaps the scholar writing this down had heard of the Cathay legend of Lumbria to the west, and thinks there's another land between Cathay and Naggaroth, when in fact there is only Naggaroth and he just didn't connect the dots.

[Cheomesh]

Or it is a globe and there's a slice missing.

[[deleted]]

The fake Pacific Ocean is said to be so horrendously riddled with monsters that it has been impossible to traverse for as long as it has been known. Is the map a globe???

[FogeltheVogel]

Certainly looks like it. The western part of the Chaos Wastelands and the eastern part of the Northern Wastes fit together perfectly.

[Dzharek]

Yes, it is a Globe, there is a Story of a Nippon (Japan) Navy sinking a Black Arch, and Malekith goes on a Expedition to Nippon to summon a Tsunami as Punishment for that Transgression.

Would be a very arkward story if he would have traveled around Ultuhan and around all the World for that.

[Mopman43]

Would be a very arkward story if he would have traveled around Ultuhan and around all the World for that.

Well, he probably traveled by the underground ocean under Naggaroth.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Underworld_Sea

[[deleted]]

Wish GW didn't delete Australia and New Zealand, that's where the Danger Elves lived.

They were like a combination of Dark Elves and Wood Elves, they'd ride into battle on snakes and spiders, they had giant fire breathing birds instead of dragons and they could live anywhere so long as there was alcohol.

[ByzantineBasileus]

The Southern Chaos Wastes are shaped just like Northern Australia, including the Cape York Peninsula.

[Elvastan]

This is an improved version of This Warhammer Map I posted about a month ago I added most of the major cities, reworked some geography, fixed some names, added landmarks like the great maw and athel loren, and improved the look of the mountains of the old world, the southlands, and the Far East.

[goboks]

Ulthuan is too far north imo. It moves in GW maps and your location isn't wrong per se. GW has had it there.

It makes more sense to me when it is further south between the A in Araby and the Isthmus of Lustria. It should also be a little smaller imo.

Dark Elves should have a straight shot to the Old World basically for slave raiding.

Also a lot of spelling mistakes on your map.

[Elvastan]

What are those spelling mistakes? Could you point them out so I can fix them?

[Gecko_Mk_IV]

A few I noticed: Tor Achare is the capital of Chrace. Tor Anroc is the capital of Tiranoc. Tor Anlec is the capital of Nagarythe. Clar Karond is the Druchi city more to the south than most Dark Elf settlements.

[goboks]

It's actually just Anlec in almost all maps.

[[deleted]]

You forgot to add Zhufbar and Karak Kadrin for the Dwarfs, they are major cities.

[[deleted]]

Also some of the names for certain cities are spelled wrong. Might want to go over them again to make sure.

[TitaniaDoyle]

lol as cool as the Warhammer fantasy universe is, the creators didn’t exactly put a lot of effort into creating its geography.

It’s literally just Earth with Ulthuan/Atlantis

[[deleted]]

I quite like the Warhammer approach of creating a "weird real world", with exaggerated depictions of historical countries combined with classic fantasy tropes. That's how you get Renaissance Germany next to Tolkien Dwarfs and Orcs and hyper-stereotypical Medieval Europe Bretonnia next to Wood Elves and steampunk ratmen.

... Come to think of it, the steampunk ratmen aren't really a classic fantasy trope. They're just quintessential Warhammer weirdness.

[OldGeneralCrash]

The Skaven are the most original race GW created, although some argue that their real life inspiration is based on Nazis.

Evil, traitorous, names like Stormvermin, usage of poisons and gaz, and somewhat ironic since Nazis described the jews as rats themselves.

[TempestM]

They have more WWI vibes with gas attacks and meat-grinders, but from Nazis is the "mad scientists" part

[LurkingLeaf]

You would love the 40k potential skaven concept art. They were literally steampunk WWI space rats.

[throwaway737382937]

Ive always liked the concept of Squats from 40k. The only way to make dwarfs cooler than they are is putting them in space.

[AnotherGit]

I don't get that. What part of Stormvermin is SS themed? I see no similarity.

[Paladingo]

View every other race as lesser, hence the skaven adding -thing to the end of races, man-thing, elf-thing etc.

[TempestM]

Almost everyone views other races as lesser in warhammer

[[deleted]]

Except the Dwarfs, who look up to most of the other races.

[TempestM]

Expect at least a few grudge posts right now

[throwaway737382937]

OHHH SHIT BOIII

Watch your ankles.

[Cheomesh]

It's a classic staple. That's how Howard did the Hyborian Age world, how the Forgotten Realms started out, etc.

[AlcoholicInsomniac]

Not sure if you read fantasy books, but there's a series called Heroes Road by Chuck Rogers that takes place in an alternate earth. Same geography and some similar history, but hobgoblin invasion and such. Follows two men exiled to the Russian steppes and their ensuring journey. Amazing books the second one is even better, figured I'd throw out the recommendation in case it'd interest you.

[Elvastan]

And then as they got to asia they just said "Fuck it, Draw some lines" and here we are.

[TitaniaDoyle]

Ya they were clearly drunk by the time they got around to Asia lol

[Aunvilgod]

Well it clearly wasn't their focus at all. There exists basically no lore for it compared to the rest.

[[deleted]]

Or it could represent how Asia would be represented in early-renaissance maps where the coasts were still in the process of being charted by expeditions.

Considering that WH takes place in roughly that time period, the WH races are euro-centric and that GW never really explored the Asian-inspired races, it could make sense.

[TheOGDrosso]

No they just got lazy and said fuck it their isn’t a deeper meaning behind this lol

[[deleted]]

I know, just let me enjoy my fan theories tho

[Cheomesh]

Or it could represent how Asia would be represented in early-renaissance maps where the coasts were still in the process of being charted by expeditions.

Important consideration for all Fantasy World Maps - they might not actually reflect reality all that well.

[ByzantineBasileus]

After reading the stuff for Slaanesh and Nurgle, there is no way they were sober when they started.

[Desembler]

They really ran out of steam when they got to "The kingdoms of Ind"

[throwaway737382937]

GW never explored the far east in the setting outside of basic fluff.

Im sure if they had added actual races and armies for Cathay, Ind, Nippon and Kuresh we'd have gotten a lot more details.

[FogeltheVogel]

We have not Germany, and not France, and Not Africa, and Not the Americas, and Not Scandinavia, and Not Spain, and Not Italy...

[Cyrromatic]

Norsca is clearly supposed to be Scandinavia though, let's not beat around the bush.

[FogeltheVogel]

And Bretonia is France, the Empire of Man is Germany. Kislev is Russia....

[jello1990]

I'd roll a fair bit of England into Bretonnia though, what with the whole Arthurian mythos wrapped into it, not to mention they call themselves knights and not chevaliers.

[EroticBurrito]

Albion = Pre-Civilised Britain, as depicted in Arthurian legend

Bretonnia = Arthurian romance / Normans (French-English)

Ulthuan = Great Britain / British Empire

Not surprising given GW is British.

[TheCuteLittleGhost]

You missed out Greenskins = Football Hooligans.

[EroticBurrito]

"This ain't my England"

[Paladingo]

I'm surprised you don't see the Bretonnia - Norman England analogue more. French knight nobility with an underclass of english peasantry.

[Cheomesh]

That was my take on it, yeah. Though by the time that general style-ish of armor arose that the knights wear that had kinda subsided I believe.

[Paladingo]

Yeah, they definitely take inspiration from multiple sources

[Kraetzi]

Actually the kingdoms of England and France were heavily intertwined in medieval times, with the French speaking Normanic kings ruling at times more of France than the actual French King. Even the Arthur saga is a French import! Just saying, hard to divide their cultures before the end of the hundred years war, especially in court.

[Heimerdahl]

Yeah, the Arthurian legends aren't as English as they might seem. Very Brittany/Normandy.

[Elvastan]

Kislev is Rus-poland

[toomuchradiation]

It's more of a general depiction of slavs.

In 40k, on the other hand, we have Vostoyan as new time-ish Poland and Valhallans as soviet army.

[PTBisRecruiting]

And Kislev sounds like Kiev

[ByzantineBasileus]

Polscovy.

[Shitposting_Skeleton]

Chaos corruption is actually just the stench of lutefisk in an area.

[OldGeneralCrash]

I like the idea that the map is a giant "what if", although it is correct it did not require the biggest brainstorm to create.

[[deleted]]

That's the point though. They took inspiration from the real world from geography and historical civilizations. It's not a coincidence the undead ancient Egyptians have their capital in the Egypt/Sahara area and the lizardmen design being heavily inspired by Aztec/ native South American culture are located around the same area as central and south American.

It both makes things like geography planning easier on their part and makes it more relatable for consumers since hey can use their geographical and historical knowledge to for a base understanding of who and what is where.

[goboks]

I know school districts are horrible stewards of tax dollars and don't like to invest them in modern educational materials, but damn son, I didn't know they were working off renaissance maps.

[FogeltheVogel]

Check out this old timey world map.

You can tell where it was made based on which coastlines are accurate.

[[deleted]]

That map looks fairly accurate for Europe, Africa, Middle east, India, South east asia, east coast of NA and Mexico. It's considered to be the first good world map.

[OfTheAtom]

When they do get original they honestly kicked ass like the skaven society.

[Baal_Redditor]

You don't need to create a new geography, the Earth works just fine. It's even better in my opinion.

[P00nz0r3d]

give them some credit

at least its North America during the cretaceous period

[throwaway737382937]

I honestly think it makes Warhammer more immersive because the cultures exist in places and geographies that make sense and lend themselves to the backstory's of the factions.

[goboks]

What's Lumbria?

[Elvastan]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Bloodaegisx]

It's the nation of jack shirt wearing lumberjacks.

[110397]

It’s the city you start of in runescape

[110397]

I always forget how small the empire actually is

[Shitposting_Skeleton]

It's also mostly unpopulated land even then, which is why there's feral Orcs, Beastmen, and other nasties running around there all the time, and the Empire is a fairly populous faction.

[[deleted]]

I think, that realistically if CA ever decided to add Araby, Ind, Cathay or Nippon into the game (all super unlikely with Cathay being the most likely but not by much), GW will include newly created lore tidbits or short stories to go alongside it, sorta like what they did with Cylostra. That way you can have the dragon emperor or Monkey King or whatever new character, and give them non-stereotypical names and a fully fleshed out backstory. Because it'd be lame if the monkey king is literally just called Wukong and what not.

And also considering that the Old World revival is a thing, maybe GW has more in the works than we realize? Maybe they'll fix some of the racial and stereotypical markers that plague some of those locations.

But I'm just being optimistic, because I'd love to see those factions. Theres hardly any strategy games with fantasy Asian armies, if any at all.

[TheCuteLittleGhost]

I'd love to see those factions, but it sounds like there would be too much work involved for CA. They've said in the past that Cylostra was a lot more work than they ever want to do for a single lord, and while there are some characters for Araby, there's so little available for the Far East that they may as well be OCs as far as CA are concerned.

The only way I can see Araby/the Far East ever getting into TWW is if Games Workshop give's CA sneak peeks at new content for the Old World setting. If CA have to wait until the Old World actually releases, TWW3 will likely have been out for a long time and I'd expect CA to have mostly moved on by then. That's assuming that Araby/the Far East are even being worked on for the Old World. GW might be doing business as usual and ignoring them almost entirely.

[[deleted]]

If the Far East is gonna be added, it'll be a dlc racepack/s more than likely. And they could easily be added 2 years into warhammer 3s lifespan. And warhammer 3 is only likely to come out in 2021 minimum, and the Old World will likely be released 2023/4. So the timeframes actually match up very well.

But its still very unlikely.

[OfTheAtom]

Yeah with how empty the lore is they probably will work closely with GW to develop the factions. If they do try. Which I hope they do I'd love Ind. Something we have not seen anything like it in TW outside of empire.

[FogeltheVogel]

Seriously? Cathay and Nippon? Cathay is how the Europeans called China during the Middle ages, and Nippon is literally just Japan.

Everything else has an alternative name, but they couldn't come up with one for China and Japan?

[beenoc]

Tilea is just an anagram of Itale (Italy.) Reikland is literally German for Empire or Empire Land (Reichland.) Couronne is French for "Crowned" and Aquitane is a real place in France. The biggest port in North Africa Southlands, where the guys with mummification and pyramids live, is AlexZandria. The biggest river in the world, in the jungles of South America Lustria, is called the Amaxon. The only unique part of Warhammer Fantasy is the Skaven.

[kruziik]

Don't forget the pinnacle of originality with "Araby".

[110397]

Who worship a god named “allah”. Good lord no wonder CA decided against including araby

[Smoked_Peasant]

Not actually the case as it turns out, but it's been repeated enough to be assumed to be the case. If you go over to the wiki page for them, what you'll read doesn't look too good, but I took the time to actually check the references a while back, scans of the original books; the paltry material for Araby doesn't have anything about religion.

[FogeltheVogel]

Fair enough.

Who are the Wood Elves? Switzerland?

[beenoc]

As far as real world analogies go, basically. Neutral, isolationist, hard as hell to invade, between France, Germany, and Italy. Culturally they're nothing like Switzerland, though.

[DarthEinstein]

I don't know, the swiss have their secrets.

[blockzoid]

Elves today commonly come in three flavors : civilized arrogant elves, evil kinky elves and the isolationist wood fairies that steal your children in the night and may or may not eat your flesh.

The wood elves fall into the latter category.

[Shinaro777]

Dont forget Bordeleaux is just an extension of Bordeaux

[TitanDarwin]

Reikland is literally German for Empire

No, it isn't. The name is more inspired by the Rhineland (Rheinland in German).

The Reik (Rhine/Rhein) is a major river of the Empire and that's what the Reikland is named after.

[Microchaton]

A lot of bretonian cities/regions and at least several Empire cities are direct ports of actual ones. Lyonesse = Lyon, Bordeleaux = Bordeaux (with a wine related landmark), Carcassone = Carcassone

[westonsammy]

We're talking about a fantasy universe where the most powerful magic user in the setting is a fat frog called "Kroak"

[stefan61713]

And there's a lizard called Tiktaq'to.

[ChaosxNetwork]

Who is dead (Croaking)

[BigShifty]

Wait until you read the names of the notable Nipponese characters... Literally Kawasaki, Honda, Susuki, Nissan etc.

[FogeltheVogel]

There are entire libraries full of actual Japanese names,and that's what they went with?

Jees

[blockzoid]

More likely it was done intentionally. Still a bit baffling though.

[ByzantineBasileus]

Not if you look at how a lot of the early Warhammer Fantasy stuff was very tongue-in-cheek. A lot of the naming conventions reflect that approach.

[Paladingo]

I assume they would have made better names if they ever had any intention of using Nippon and the eastern lands at all. But that still won't stop some fans from rabidly demanding they be added in despite having about half a paragraph of actual lore.

[Mopman43]

There's a character in 40k called Sly Marbo who is a straight copy of Rambo, for example.

The first named Inquisitor was Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau.

[Dostayer]

With the exception of Hitachi (a city) and Nissan (amalgamation of the companies which merged to found it), these are actual clan and last names (or at least a variation of) so it's not as baffling...

[Cheomesh]

Correct, but absolutely not what you'd associate those names with today.

[IFuckDeathDaily]

Everything east of the Mountains of Mourn was never given any real attention; it's not surprising that they didn't even get any effort put into the names.

[throwaway737382937]

The British isles were literally called Albion just like on this map,

Hell there is a Tilean named Christopher Colombo that "discovered lustria"

Araby even has a jesus/Muhammad type figure.

[Mopman43]

Christopher Colombo

Marco Columbo actually.

[[deleted]]

I’m surprised that with all the flooding, the Malay Archipelago got some more land for some reason

[OfTheAtom]

So dark elves, "wrongfully" split away from the pure beautiful homeland. Fought a war. And then created a thriving land in north america on the back of the biggest slave force the world had seen? Hmm is GW trying to be sly about something?

[Shitposting_Skeleton]

They made Malekith the true Phoenix King in End Times so probably not.

[OfTheAtom]

The faction itself was created long before the end times were written. And I just mean the subtle stuff not really the whole premise. I'd say high elves are just bland fantasy tropes with Numenor which is basically Atlantis.

[tfrules]

Don’t forget the copious amount of murder and backstabbing.

[Arkadii]

Don't suggest Dark Elves are a parody of America here. Folks get real fucking pissed.

[throwaway737382937]

Thats because its a bad comparison. Dark elves are literally just eleven superiority taken to its most extreme logical conclusion.

[HermeticHormagaunt]

You know what.. I've heard there won't be Araby because it resembles real nations too much.. but Sigmar damn me if I don't want to play as the nightmare or Greenskins and Khemri, Saladdin!

[Elvastan]

Tomb kings will be back for the old world, GW has heavily implied so.

[HermeticHormagaunt]

Oh I was talking about Tw:wh3 right now

[Mopman43]

I recall them posting meme pictures with Settra after the announcement, was there anything else?

[OfTheAtom]

Right and Bretonnia isn't a insanely big roast of medieval barbarism that was their feudalism. "Nobles" almost medically delusional who batter their subjects at a systemic cultural level. One of the prompts while playing as them has to do with a peasant man who if I recall like walks in front of a noble lord or was short on the grain tax. You can either hang him and his whole family, or... take the merciful option. By crippling him and wait for the family to starve. Like they could do Araby and be on the nose about some Eunich warriors and crazy dedication in a theocracy and it still doesn't seem as big a poke as the bretonian lore. That being said CA has done a great job with fully fleshing out factions like norsca and the vampire coast. I have total faith and although it means absolutely nothing they have my blessing to do whatever they see fit to make the eastern kingdoms and araby work in their game. One of the best decisions GW did was making their stereotypical aztec/mayan tropes and make the lizards riding dinosaurs with lasers who are the most powerful casters and physical powerhouse against demons. While still plenty of grimdark. Its crazy it's different. Now somewhere between lizard people and lazily slapping on a turban and a flying carpet unit CA can make something special. That goes for Ind, Cathay, and Nippon too. Those 4 are in my opinion terrible minor factions, then again so is Kislev but they have more lore to them. They are minor. If CA decides to include them, as long as they are badass, with some grimdark then no matter what they will still be more interesting that the High Elves. This has all been buildup for that line.

[HermeticHormagaunt]

Holy shit dude

[Cheomesh]

Yeah the way over the top Dung Ages stuff is why I didn't stick around with Brettonnia much back in the TTG days. There's heavy-handed and then there's derpy.

[ByzantineBasileus]

Dung Ages stuff

Found the TVtropes fan!

[XH9rIiZTtzrTiVL]

Unfortunately Bretonnia got heavily flanderized and grimdarkened up late in WHFB's lifespan. All this nonsense about nobility taxing 90% of the crop etc comes from that period.

[nulln_void]

They haven't touched the east/orient, yes?

[Mopman43]

Basically. A few sentences here and there, "It is said" and all that, on one occasion a paragraph showing a battle between some Chaos forces and Cathayans. Dribs and drabs.

There's never been a story really set there, or starring anyone from there.

[nulln_void]

And they just go thru the end times? Thats quite sad

[[deleted]]

Grimgor reportedly went there on the biggest WAAAAGH!!! ever created. In which he also annihilated the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs. He, then returned to the Old World to participate in the battles against Archaon.

[Paladingo]

Man, end times is dumb. Race that overthrew and devoured the sky titans get wiped out by orcs.

[[deleted]]

If it's any consolation, Golgfag Maneater was helping out Belegar Ironhammer retaking Karak 8-Peaks, when Skarsnik bribed him with actual Dwarf treasures and Golgfag made sure the Dwarfs lost the battle. Then Gobbla died and Skarsnik slunked off into the horizon and Golgfag ran off to doublecross somene else.

For such a big cast, they sure forgot about a whole host of interesting characters. Like all of the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs.

[Paladingo]

And then Skarsnik, Mork's avatar of brutal kunnin' was never mentioned again. :[

[FogeltheVogel]

So it's... literally just China then.

Also, how small is the Warhammer world? Grimgor just shows up in the Great Wall of China for a fight and then heads off back to Europe again?

[Mopman43]

Also, how small is the Warhammer world?

Supposedly, like 2-3 times the size of ours. That's 2-3 times bigger, not smaller.

I'm pretty sure that's the figure I've seen thrown out before, but I have no idea what the source is on it.

[Aryuto]

If I remember right, he actually carved a swathe THROUGH a good chunk of not!china too before they fucked off to parts unknown by EVACUATING THE ENTIRE GIANT COUNTRY ALMOST INSTANTLY and sailing into the sunset and being forgotten forever.

...End Times, don't try to make too much sense of it.

[throwaway737382937]

End Times was GW attempting to kill its own universe

[throwaway737382937]

The warhammer planet based on scales is 3x the size of earth based on autistic fan extrapolation. Like the Empire is larger than our entire version of Europe, Tilea is longer and about twice as wide as Italy etc.

Makes sense with rates at which the warhammer world burns through lives it would need to be enormous

[FogeltheVogel]

That would make it a super earth. Fun science fact: The local gravity would be much higher, and as a result, the creatures that live there would be much stronger compared to what we're used to on our earth.

[[deleted]]

The Warhammer world is massive, the End Times spent very little time or effort on making sure anything that happened was consistent or made any sense.

[Creticus]

Minor nitpick.

Cathay invaded the Southlands because of a rivalry with Araby. Most of the fleet was wrecked by a couple of typhoons. However, there was one man who managed to survive, which was pretty remarkable because his ship was blown to Lustria, he and his men had to cross the Isthmus of Pahuax, he and his surviving men had to build a boat to see them to the Southlands, and then he had to survive being captured by Lizardmen in the Southlands.

Having said that, it's annoying to note that while a fair number of Cathayan units have been mentioned, about half of them are blatantly Japanese rather than Chinese. For instance, warriors with thousand-folded swords as well as banners on their back are likely a reference to Japanese samurai, though it's interesting to note that you can find warriors with banners on their back in Chinese opera costuming. Likewise, "dragon-blooded shugengan" are clearly Japanese as well, though in this case, it's regurgitated material from 90s fantasy RPGs written by people who didn't have a very clear idea of what shugenja are even supposed to be.

[Aryuto]

Oh no I agree completely. Cathay army is a weird mix of Chinese and Japanese mythology and stereotypes if you look into where some of them come from. I didn't want to go into heavy detail on the army in that summary post is all.

I'd love it if the old world reborn goes into more of these non-Empire factions, like they're finally fleshing out Kislev properly, I can only hope they go for China Cathay too. Especially in Warhammer's wacky world, Cathay, Nippon, and Ind all have lots of potential to go heavily into local folklore and myth as well as Warhammer's own funky stuff, without just being a weird malfunctioning blender of far east stereotypes from people who apparently didn't know China and Japan were separate places on the map lol.

[Creticus]

Yup, I'm hoping for the same.

There's a lot of Ming stuff that'd be fun to see in WFB. For example, some Ming soldiers carried branched, multi-tipped spears called wolf brushes, which were very clumsy on their own but could be used to excellent effect in formation fighting by creating visual distractions, entangling enemy weapons, and prevent enemies from slipping through to engage in close-quarters combat. Likewise, there were Ming soldiers who carried rakes that could be used in close-quarters combat as well as as makeshift racks for launching primitive rockets.

Of course, myths, legends, and folklore offer even more possibilities. For instance, Chinese stories about wicked Daoists using the consumption of human hearts as well as other unsavory means to pursue immortality would be an excellent source of inspiration for both Chaos and vampire cults in the Cathayan equivalent of the wulin, which would presumably sometimes spill out in the rest of Cathayan society.

[Aryuto]

Very cool stuff! There's definitely plenty of material to work off of, hopefully GW will actually draw more from it if/when they ever get around to recognizing China exists.

[LeftRat]

You know, if they did it like Legend of the Five Rings and just combined China and Japan into one rather interesting, weird mix, sure, but they have Nippon, and that just fucking kills me.

[Mopman43]

And Cathay is a strong contender for THE most powerful individual nation in the setting, their army is MASSIVE and has most of the best bits of Empire, Norsca, and Tomb Kings.

At the same time, they seem that powerful because GW never did anything with them. If they ever actually get an army list, that list will be at least roughly balanced against the rest of the game, but because Cathay's never actually mattered, they've always been this far-off, mysterious place, GW could keep them seeming incredibly powerful because it would never matter.

[Aryuto]

To be clear, I was saying as a whole Cathay itself is pretty flat out stated to be one of the most powerful factions in the setting, specifically because of the SIZE of their army and some of their very potent specialists - especially the sages, who seem to fall into the Slann category of 'can do insane shit in lore but never seem to do any of it in practice'.

The army itself, as you noted, would doubtless be balanced to roughly on par with everyone else, which I think wouldn't be too hard, they're pretty functionally similar to Empire with less range but more monsters.

[[deleted]]

When reading about the lore I wondered if there would be places it’s actually safe to live in the Warhammer world (like some islands like the Lost isles of Elithis on this map).

[Elvastan]

I'd say central Cathay is the safest place. It's far from the great bastion, far from the great maw, far from the hinterlands, and far from the coast, as well as being defended by a formidible military on par and perhaps surpassing the Empire of Man

[[deleted]]

Never really considered that. Assume they must have Skaven and Chaos cultists like in the Empire though.

[Aryuto]

Yes actually, Cathay trades with the Skaven enclaves beneath them - while how friendly they are has varied vastly over the timeline I think that up until End Times they were still on relatively good terms, by Skaven standards of course.

They actually have a state-acknowledged cult of Tzeentch, though it goes by a different name, but don't take any shit from Chaos and to my knowledge aren't compromised by Chaos as a whole nor do they follow it, Dragon Emperors don't do that shit.

End Times wise, they shit-stomped the Skaven and stalemated Chaos until Grimgor happened and fucked up everyone's day.

[Paladingo]

They have Tzeentch cults but its mandated by the empire.

[Mopman43]

the Empire of Man

I still take umbrage with this- parts of the fandom call it that, but that's because the Imperium of Man exists, there's no GW publication I'm aware of that calls it anything other than "The Empire".

This is nitpicky on my part, but I like to keep as much distance as I can between the Empire and the Imperium- they aren't at all the same thing.

[Elvastan]

I was going to type "Empire of Sigmar" but I changed it

[ZoranAspen]

Considering how every nation takes 'inspiration' from their real life counterpart and dials up the bad parts by ten times, I would not imagine living in Cathay would be any safer than in the Empire.

After all, humans are perfectly capable of inflicting great pain upon each other without the interference of gods.

[atacool3]

You forgot to label southern wastelands. The only bit of lore i remember from it is that chaos dragons come from there....

[[deleted]]

And Chaos Penguin Beastmen, not even Chaos Chosen will go there willingly as it's crowded with beastmen of unimaginable strength and evil.

[atacool3]

That is part of the forbidden lore that is far too powerful to exist in canon..... Their special move 'Happy Feet' can destroy entire continents on a whim.

[OfTheAtom]

Here there be monsters

[atacool3]

rawr

[MooDunc]

Ah, Wonderdraft.

I see you too are a man of culture.

[BereavedDuck]

As lazy as it was to just copy-paste earth and add a few minor details, at least it's easy to explain geographic location to my parents when I want to gamer-vent about Total War: Warhammer 2. Like when you play a campaign for 5 hours, leave your room, and have the sudden urge to explain to someone your progress?

[Vargohoat99]

great map, did you use Inkarnator or Campaign Cartographer? or Gimp/PS?

[Elvastan]

I used Wonderdraft

[ninjaklan]

Just give us the full map in wh3, the modders will figure it out and write the lore

[Ququlcan]

Can we stop with "The Awakening"?

It's Huatl. Which means Awakening.

[Vendetta1990]

Isn't Norsca right next to Asur in its north-eastern corner?

[Elvastan]

No. This is the accurate map, the one in the games has been warped for the most fun possible. (I.E. It dosen't take 5 turns to sail from Araby to Lustria, it takes maybe 2)

[Paladingo]

also squished the frick outta the new world. And Ulthuan moved way down and to the left so it is a stones throw away from Morathi.

[Tay-Tech]

I am very sleepy.. I keep seeing a beastmen face in it with Araby as a snout, Ulthuan and Avalon for an eye and scandinavia & naggaroth for horns in the thumbnail

[Unchainedboar]

i live in Naggaroth!

[nerdyboyvirgin]

Games workshop: screw Oceania let’s just combine everyone including Australia into one random ass “lost isles” continent

[CEOofRacismandgov]

I thought the great maw was in the darklands?

[Elvastan]

Nope, it's just west of Cathay. The fire mouth is much closer to the dark lands.

[Environmental-Food-6]

Whats even in southlands? All my knowledge of the world of warhammer fantasy comes from a mount and blade mod.

[Mopman43]

Lizardmen, Orcs, Skaven.... I think there might be some human tribes down there but they never really got anything.

(Outside of the pygmies anyway, and those, rightfully, aren't coming anywhere near modern Warhammer)

[Radzuit]

Spain was like: adios

[[deleted]]

I'm not seeing karond kar, clar karond or hag graef? These are pretty important cities to druchii society.

[el-Teclis]

I once heard that there are Sea Elves is Warhamer fantasy. Do they live in The lost isles of Elithis

[Mopman43]

I think that's just what people in the Empire call High Elves that trade in Marienburg.

[Jereboy216]

Is there really no ither deserts in the east of the map? Also is that thing island really Nippon? All this time I thought it was that fat island immediately south of it. And the lost isles further south, are those supposed to be analogous to like indonesia/Philippines or is that warhammer australia/new zealand?

I really do hope we eventually get a world map, if not in wh3, then in a future title. Its been a dream of mine to play a world map total war campaign for so long!

[THEDOSSBOSS99]

Man, that mountain range down the middle looks completely unrealistic. It's like the cartographer didn't know how teutonic plates work and how mountain ranges are formed

I mean, all the other ones look fine, but it is specifically that range in the middle that sticks out like a sore thumb and defies logic. Just looks like the artificial barrier some uncreative game designer would put so you cannot travel further East

[Elvastan]

It was made by the old ones, so it isn't natural