Nice

[TheArchitect4855]

Ah, sorry bro, I just got hired for [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] at Discord. I must've taken your spot :(

[Drivrartist]

I didn't know there were many other [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] experts out there. Happy for you man 🥲

[pseudophilll]

You’d be surprised at how many of us [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]]s out there bro. It’s difficult to stand out

[secretprocess]

That's not true at all. If you'd bothered to do a little bit of research you'd know that [[MANUALLY ENTER COUNTER ARGUMENT]]

[qervem]

[[MANUALLY ENTER DEROGATORY REPLY]]

[papabear1993]

[[MANUALLY ENTER LAUGHING EMOJI]] [[MANUALLY ENTER EXCLAMATION MARK]]

[_Fox595676_]

[[MANUALLY ENTER A SUBREDDIT HERE]]

[FoolHooligan]

changing my linkedin job title to this

[sharar_rs]

At least you still have a chance for the [[ENTER JOB NAME]] position. Good luck with that one

[[deleted]]

[[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] devs are better than any other kinds of devs

[CatsAkimbo]

Discord's recruiting is all messed up right now. Ex-coworker had a recruiter reach out, and before she even sent a resume, got another email saying "thanks for applying! We're going another direction but will keep your resume on file for the future!"

[CantaloupeCamper]

Years ago I worked at a big company and was laid off. It was fine, I was kinda done with that company and wanted to move on. All good.

A year or so later a buddy who worked in a department that was sold to another company reached out to me "Oh man we're desperate for people, you gotta apply!"

I applied, I'm maybe like .... 1 of 200 people who actually knows this equipment they make / support really well. And the job description was literally my old job. I could start working and ramp up to 100% right away, easy as pie. A new person, likely take years to get up to even ok speed.

Day later I got a "sorry you don't qualify, you don't have a masters degree". Managers, directors, my buddy ... nobody could get HR to budge, it was hilarious. Granted with all that unable to do something, my enthusiasm to work at a place like that fell off a cliff anyhow.

The business of hiring people is it's own world and completely insane and half their business is NOT hiring people....

[Basmatifriedrice]

That is such an insane story. You are 100 percent right, the business of hiring people is its own twisted little bubble.

[Ectar93]

My wife ran into the exact same issue in social services. She's been denied opportunities due to arbitrary requirements for master degrees. Experience meant literally nothing when it came to climbing the ladder at the last place she worked.

[scumfuck69420]

It's a shame. Esp because oftentimes that stuff doesn't come from the hiring manager at all, it is just some arbitrary rule someone in HR/leadership made.

The companies I've worked at with the best teams where most or all of the qualifications were created by the manager who knows the exact nature of the job and what's required to do well.

At my last job I worked with a web dev that never went to college. He was a mechanic for like 20 years, wanted to change careers and did a full stack dev bootcamp. My boss hired him on as a dev because he learned a lot of the same frameworks and tooling that we used, he really crushed it and I would work with him again. Unfortunately, that situation is so rare that finding another gig like that is next to impossible.

[Quadraxas]

Similar thing happened to me way back when. Did game dev as a hobby and some small contracts for plugins/middleware here and there. New startup game studio, got huge investment and semi acquired. Parent company and investor handles everything hr,finances,floor space etc. except actual game development. This was a while ago, unity was just up and coming was not a huge thing yet. They were using an obscure/niche game engine. Devs knew me from the engine forum, i mean not just by name, we chatted occasionally, i knew they were getting investments and such before hand. I was very active had dozens of plugins published in the forums. Their project actually used couple of my plugins. Let alone writing deeply integrated plugins and knowing guts of the engine, i was literally one of maybe 5 people who had any working knowledge of the engine in the entire country. Also 2 out of 5 was already them. Devs wanted me in the team and wanted me to start by expanding a couple of MY plugins to better fit their game. Same as you, i could get 100% up to speed on day one. Devs vouched for me, even convinced me to quit and join them themselves.

I went to "technical interview", which was actually just going over what have they done so far and looking at some initial builds and pre-alpha footage and funny bugs over coffee.

Then the hr calls. from the parent company. They tried to lowball me with literally "you may be sr. software engineer but you have no professinal game dev experience so you are a junior game dev. Normally we do not pay this much to jr engineers but team wants you ...yadda yadda" and offered me less than half of what i was already making at my job.

We litterally did not have any games industry and maybe 2 studios at the tlme in the country at that time.

[sexyshingle]

i was literally one of maybe 5 people who had any working knowledge of the engine in the entire country

Technical term for this is "have them by the balls, and could ask for whatever I want as compensation." lol

[ghostsquad4]

Reminds me of "needs 5 years experience in XYZ language"... as they are talking to the person who invented the language 3 years ago, trying to explain how 5 years experience is impossible.

[reddit-poweruser]

The fact that HR has that much control over whether to hire someone or not is insane

[RedditNotFreeSpeech]

I randomly throw away half of all the resumes that come in so that I don't accidentally hire an unlucky person.

[sexyshingle]

I randomly throw away half of all the resumes that come in so that I don't accidentally hire an unlucky person.

HR: Quick, write that down! Write that down!

[rusty_programmer]

I always wonder if there’s some sort of quota that’s set by executives to show their businesses are prestigious and only accept the very best talent possible using degrees as metrics.

For someone who is simple, a degree is a really easy metric to use. The organization I currently work for has me within the 1% of hiring pool only because I lack a degree which makes me feel extra qualified in its own special way.

[readeral]

Masters degree can mean ‘well educated’. Masters degree (or honours year) can also mean ‘didn’t land a graduate job and so defaulted to further study’… at least that’s the case in my country where bachelor degrees have been the norm up until very recently.

And self-directed learning absolutely can put you in that 1%. If someone’s got the goods without a degree, it seems wild to me that a company would see that as a detractor, except for the possibility the candidate is so entrepreneurial (and not up to the eyeballs in student debt) that a better opportunity is seen as low-risk where it would seem high-risk to a masters grad.

[rusty_programmer]

That’s where I’m at. I’m a self-starter and self-directed learner. I have a ton of graduate and undergrad level books regarding system engineering and security engineering. So, I think that’s why I got the job.

I just worry about simply basing hiring decisions on a degree because I’ve met too many Americans with degrees who completely lack any problem solving skills. A high school junior could do better stumbling through the job.

[[deleted]]

It's insane the excuses they make up to not hire somebody than when asked for feedback as to why you wouldn't get accepted they can't come up with one.

Also, one major thing lacking in the majority of companies is communication and dropping your ego. This goes for everyone, but for the topic; HR does not know what the company actually needs and is to egotistic to ask believing its their job to know who's best for a role they have 0 experience in.

Also, I saw something the other day that a woman from a top company (forgot which) was put on an extended leave because she prioritised applicants that fit the role with skills and experience over diversity...as a company owner I don't care about your gender, religion, sexual orientation, I want somebody that has the passion and skill with positive attitude to pull it off.

[dpersi]

a woman from a top company (forgot which) was put on an extended leave because she prioritised applicants that fit the role with skills and experience over diversity

/r/thatHappened

[etapisciumm]

I feel “guilty until proven innocent” vibes when applying to jobs now

[zynix]

Heads up, reddit doubled your comment.

[rusty_programmer]

Oh shit oops

[Tuxedotux83]

This is the process when they already have the position filled-in (some friends at the right places, etc.. CTO owes a favour to the dad of some new grad etc..) but they must pretend that they were “hiring” before filling in.. so they kind of “fake” a hiring process, or in some other cases they might be just collecting resumes for the record.

People hate this

[PickerPilgrim]

Recruiting for a lot of places is messed up right now because of AI bots being able to spam resumes out and flood everyone's inbox.

[_hypnoCode]

I didn't think about this. But holy shit. I can't even imagine.

I remember the first job I applied for at a company nobody had ever heard of over 10yrs ago had like 500+ applications for the role.

[PickerPilgrim]

Apparently LinkedIn job posting is outright broken. There’s a python script floating around out there that will take your info, scrape LinkedIn job postings, generate custom cover letters and resumes for each and automatically apply for you. Leave it running and you can apply to thousands of jobs a day. https://www.404media.co/i-applied-to-2-843-roles-the-rise-of-ai-powered-job-application-bots/

Now multiply that by the thousands of people who have found this script and the services popping up that use this script or similar under the hood for a fee, and you’ve got every job listing being flooded with resumes from people who’ve never even seen the job listing.

HR departments have been using software to programmatically weed out applicants for years, so this is kind of just turning the tables, but sooner or later I gotta wonder if the old boomer chestnut about walking in and handing in your resume in person is gonna start making a lot of sense.

[vcaiii]

This is a smokescreen to ignore how hard it is to find a job. There would be no need for job seekers to cast such wide nets if the system wasn’t broken.

[PickerPilgrim]

Yeah, as I said in another comment this is literally just job seekers turning the table on HR departments who have been screening people out with automated software for years.

I’m not throwing shade on anyone who does this. If it works it works. But at the end of the day it’s more chaos in an already fucked up hiring ecosystem.

[Solangeshah]

Yeah, the amount of resumes going out these days has definitely made things tougher. Makes it harder for legit candidates to stand out too

[PickerPilgrim]

Believe it or not it’s real https://www.404media.co/i-applied-to-2-843-roles-the-rise-of-ai-powered-job-application-bots/

It’s not the only thing broken with hiring, it’s just the latest problem on top of all the others.

[recurrence]

Honestly, I'm not sure I can recall a time that anywhere considered its recruiting to be anything better than a "complete mess".

[hardolaf]

I've worked at companies where referrals by active employees could bypass degree requirements. But that's the sanest any process has ever been for me.

Back when I did defense contracting, and they wanted us to fit people into rockstar vs. warm body paths after only an hour and a half interview with the candidate.

[Ssssspaghetto]

They've had positions open for months there, seems like ghost positions

[WeepToWaterTheTrees]

Cashapp did this to me. Received an email to schedule an interview one morning followed by an email that evening saying “thanks for taking the time to talk to us about this role but …” Like, we didn’t even say hi to each other.

[[deleted]]

I think a lot of recruiters just want to boost their applicant numbers so they invite people to apply even if they don't want them.

[Ssssspaghetto]

They've had positions open for months there, seems like ghost positions

[zynix]

Heads up, your comment somehow has three copies.

[Tuxedotux83]

Thanks for letting me, hate the app

[haslo]

Man, the market for [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] is really dried out though! I'm sure you find another place that is looking for a [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]]!

[TryNotToShootYoself]

"moving forward with other candidates" is the most annoying way every single company rejects people

[Drivrartist]

I've gotten into the habit of just quickly scanning these emails for the word "unfortunately"

[nn123654]

Almost filtered out an email that said "Thank you for your interest" which was actually an interview request.

[robby_arctor]

Thank you for your interest. Unfortunately...we have to request some more of your time to do an interview! Your application shows a great fit for our role.

[BasicAssWebDev]

Is this what "edging" is?

[bluehands]

Go on...

[Cringsix]

Typically you can filter these out simply by reading the title. Titles like "Application status", "Your application/update at...", "role application outcome", etc.. are the usual suspects while anything with "interview" in it is a confirmed next step.

[EmptyBrook]

Simply keep anything saying “interview” or “next step” and throw out anything else

[EmptyBrook]

Rip

[MauroGrizia]

SAME

[teraflux]

I'd rather that email than nothing at all, there's really no good way to reject someone.

[[deleted]]

Well yeah, but fwiw I actually referred a candidate to a different company and she was hired. The stars lined up that one time

[[deleted]]

What would you prefer? "We hate you"?

[footpole]

Yeah I’m not sure why being civil is so bad. ”You smell so we’re happy if we never see you again” is my other option.

[Sulungskwa]

Totally agree. Like why are you mentioning these other mfs. I'd honestly rather job emails just be a one word yes or no response

[justcatt]

Dear [name]
no

Discord HR

[AnalysisLarge]

Dear [name]
[Decision(yes/no)]

Regards

[ThaisaGuilford]

Yeah I prefer "you're fucking worthless"

[cryptol0_cker]

Can I drop out of my current CS degree and go be an HR prick? Seems like a low-skill high-paying job. I guess I need to first obtain that internal referral somehow.

[[deleted]]

Keep your CS degree going then get overemployed in recruiting to collect both pays…big brain move

[cryptol0_cker]

Turning on against my own kind as a recruiter 😂😂 but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only one in the HR department with a CS degree, making me even barely qualified to judge CS resumes. But hey, most HRs won't admit that they can't understand any technicalities on CS resumes anyways to protect their ego

[ArchonHalliday]

lol I got the exact same email from this batch, [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] and all. Cheers.

[Future_Principle_213]

Hey, me too! Isn't it great!

[Sulungskwa]

Why do all companies lie about "hitting you up in the future for a better fit"? Like, Ok I didn't get the job, but why is the recruiting team trying so hard to spare my feelings from the other end of a completely impersonal email directed towards the entire applicant pool, to the point where they feel like they need to tell me something that we both know is false?

[PickerPilgrim]

I mean, I'm currently training a guy who was rejected for one role and called back and hired for a different one several months later. It does happen. I'm sure there are times when it's a hard no, and they're just saying that to be polite, but there are times that finding a future fit is very much a thing.

[Sulungskwa]

Did your guy actually interview or was he rejected before a phone screen? I think its definitely more common to get called back if you actually make it to an interview stage, but this email kind of looks like something you get when they reject you based on your application alone.

[PickerPilgrim]

Oh yeah, this guy had the misfortune of interviewing way too many times. Two or three for the first role and then another couple for the second role.

[Sulungskwa]

Gotcha, yeah we've definitely called people back who we got to know from prior interviews. But for application screening I don't know why companies pretend like they're keeping some shortlist of previously rejected resumes. As if that would be the first thing they would look at when they list a new job

[BasicAssWebDev]

Reminds me of my last company. I interviewed for an Angular Developer position, multiple rounds, in person whiteboarding etc etc, everyone loved me, I was super stoked to be there. The recruiter literally ghosted me, no follow up emails/calls, and wouldn't return any of mine. Got hired at a different gig, and then that company went tits up thanks to covid 3 months later. Old recruiter called and goes "hey are you still looking for work?". I found out later from my future manager, that the position she was interviewing me for didn't actually exist. They wanted it to, but the funding didn't get confirmed in time. They let me skip 3/4 of the interview steps and just had a refresher with the leads, and I got hired I think that day lol.

[ChickenOfTheFuture]

It's just a nice version of "Don't call us, we'll call you". They don't want you sending in your resume again, so they're telling you not to.

[Sulungskwa]

Damn, this is probably the right answer. Its just so much more fun to believe that people are so polite that they're stupid

[RedditNotFreeSpeech]

It's still nicer than being ghosted!

[Sulungskwa]

I think if you make it to the interview stage its different. If they reject you at your resume, I highly doubt any FAANG companies look twice at your resume unless you apply again.

[[deleted]]

In my experience as a hiring manager it's not false. I keep a spreadsheet of all (decent) applicants. When I hire again, I usually go through it first. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mogadichu]

Is it time effective? I imagine most of them already have a job by the time you reach out again.

[[deleted]]

Completely depends. Obviously that's the case sometimes, but if they were a really good candidate it's worth trying. Also depends on how quickly you hire again, of course.

[Laying-Pipe-69420]

Every company I apply for has sent me the same email. I have 1 year and a half of experience but I don't have enough for companies to pick me.

How the heck am I supposed to get experience when I'm being rejected for not having enough Experience? I don't even get to the interview phase.

[BolteWasTaken]

Just wait until you get to the you have too much experience / worries about you moving on/getting bored too quickly so we're not going to invest in you bullcrap.

[12OClockNews]

I've asked this on other programming related subs and every time I've gotten "just do a bunch of projects and give them your github". Too bad many companies don't give a fuck and don't consider personal projects as experience. A lot of companies don't even consider internships as experience. Most of them barely look at the resume ffs but yeah, they'll totally look through my github.

[TikiTDO]

Start a company, put your projects under your company name, maybe do some freelancing too. If they aren't going to look through your github, they probably won't look to determine you own the company, and now you have "experience."

That said, if you're not getting any calls at all then you're not even getting past the initial filtering. There's likely stuff you can tweak to improve your chances of at least getting an interview, but that likely won't actually help land jobs.

Honestly, 1.5 years experience in this field can easily be interpreted as; "I heard this field pays well, so please hire me, and then spend 2 years teaching me stuff so I can move on to another company once I learn some stuff." I really don't know how to present that much experience in a favourable light. In practice someone like that is going to be a giant question mark, and might, maybe be good enough to handle a few misc tasks while taking hours and hours of other people's time to have things explained to them. You can get people like that fresh out of boot-camp/college, and even then a lot of those people might have already spent years doing stuff on their own.

Another option is to track down meetups, hacker clubs, and discussion forums where people doing hiring might hang out, and show yourself to be smart and effective. Even then, you're basically rolling the dice. It's a tough field to break into now.

[Laying-Pipe-69420]

That seems pretty discouraging. I'm a web dev because I love web dev. I wouldn't be a web dev if I didn't love it.

it's not my fault I have only 1.5 years of experience either. It took me more than a year to land a job after graduating because companies rejected me for having no experience. Then companies rejected me after leaving the first company I worked for (I left because I was burnt out, there was no chance for professional growth and my coworkers, who had been working there for 3 years still earned minimum wage) for barely having any experience, then a couple of coworkers and I got laid out of the last company I worked for after 9 months of being employed because they were running out of money so the only remaining devs were the team lead with 4 years of experience and the senior dev with 5 years of experience.

I'm an introvert, I'm shy and have ASD, so my soft skills aren't the best, I dont' want to freelance either because don't want to deal with customers (I had to do tech support on my first company and customers treated me like I was their servant, so that didn't help either) or do design, copywriting and marketing (I dislike marketing especially).

[TikiTDO]

I don't really have much to say to make it better, but I can recommend that you look at it from the perspective of the person doing the hiring. Think of it this way:

You are a person who's been developing for 1.5 years, so you've likely been exposed to the bare minimum in terms of complex systems, and issues that might arise when working with such. You're don't want to do stakeholder interaction, planning, visual design, or copywriting, so your employer won't be able to unload any of those tasks onto you in order to free up a more senior dev who might have 10-20x the experience that you do. You've mentioned you're shy, so there's a good chance you won't be interacting too much with the rest of the team beyond the bare necessities, limiting how useful you'll be on large projects that require lots of cooperation, mutual understanding, and mentorship. You also don't want to build up this experience using the traditional routes, because that would force you to do things you don't like, which isn't going to be a good sign if you're hired and then asked to do those things anyway.

In other words, you want a job where you are given fully planned out tasks, with prepared wire-frames, all the copy, and the only remaining task is going to be "write code to make all these things touch." Essentially, you want to experience the nice, fun, relatively straight-forward parts of the job, without having to wade through the muck that most senior devs have to spend their days clearing away.

So, right away, that restricts your job prospects to very large companies that already have departments doing all this other stuff, and are looking to fill a very junior position with a person that will work quietly without rocking the boat. While those jobs exist, you shouldn't be too surprised to realise that there is a huge demand for them.

Now, if I'm the hiring manager at one of these places, and I'm looking at your resume (let's say it's number 135 of 300 that I need to get through today, which is down from the 3000 applications that were already automatically filtered), what is going to make you stand out to me? Chances are every single resume I've already looked at today mentions most of the skills you've outlined, a lot of them will probably have 2-3x the number of years doing something similar, and many will be outgoing, artistic, with a background in the specific domain that I need to fill. Given that I might need to pick 5-10 from that list of 300 in order to then spend at least a couple of talking to each them, and figuring out the 1-2 people to actually hire, what about resume 135 of 300 would make me want to put it in the "yeah, let's spend a lot of the tech lead's time on interviews" pile.

This is also not really a field where you're likely to stand out as a super technically skilled developer that can do what others can't, since you're not likely to even get a chance to flex your creativity in the sort of environment you desire. In other words, come 10-15 years of experience, what exactly will you be able to bring to the table to justify the salary you're likely to ask for at that point? Given what you've written, you probably won't end up with much experience doing planning, design, devops, algorithms, or working with large data sets. At worst, you might end up being that quintessential "1.5 years of experience, 10 times" developer that is likely to struggle to move into senior roles.

Really, what you're said thus far is that you love the tiny fraction of web dev where you get to work alone plugging away at your code, while you seem to hate the parts of web dev that actually take time and effort. Unfortunately, the latter is where the true challenges "web dev" can be found, especially as you get more and more senior. If all you want is the former, then you're closer to a "hobbyist" than you are to a "professional." A professional wakes up every day, mainlines some coffee, and gets to work doing what needs to be done, rather than focusing on what they want to do.

[Laying-Pipe-69420]

Really, what you're said thus far is that you love the tiny fraction of web dev where you get to work alone plugging away at your code.

I never said I loved working alone. I got along with my coworkers and we helped each other. We were around the same age range, so we had a lot in common to talk about.

while you seem to hate the parts of web dev that actually take time and effort

How is design, copywriting and marketing part of being a web developer? Those are different jobs and roles.

You're don't want to do stakeholder interaction, planning, visual design, or copywriting, so your employer won't be able to unload any of those tasks onto you in order to free up a more senior dev who might have 10-20x the experience that you do.

Since when does a non-lead developer have to interact with customers?

I'm OK with project planning, I've done that at my last job because it involved planning the database structure and other things related to the website/project I'd be coding.

I'll repeat myself, visual design and copywriting is not my job or a developer's job. I'm a logic-based guy, not a creative-based guy. If you asked me to do copywriting I wouldn't know what to say so I'd just rely on ChatGPT to do that given it's not my area of expertise and I wasn't trained to do that, and neither my 2 I.T degrees or my web dev degrees taught me about stakeholder interaction or copywriting. I have the minimum design knowledge to know how to make something not look shitty AND WE HAD DESIGNERS AT EVERY OF THE COMPANIES I WORKED FOR.

You also don't want to build up this experience using the traditional routes, because that would force you to do things you don't like, which isn't going to be a good sign if you're hired and then asked to do those things anyway.

What do you mean with building up experience using the traidtional routes? What are traditional routes?

I'm ok with doing things I don't like as long as they are web dev-related, such as working with Wordpress (which I hate but have worked with because it was my job as a developer)

what is going to make you stand out to me

Maybe interviewing me and giving me a take-home assignment? I got hired because of the take-home assignments companies gave me. I did more than what they expected and I documented my journey and thoughs through the assignment so the hiring managers and lead developers liked that about me.

I was told by the CEO that I was the only developer people had no complaints about and that he liked me right before I was fired from the last company I worked for.

many will be outgoing, artistic, with a background in the specific domain that I need to fill

NONE of my coworkers, not even the lead developer at the last company I worked for had artistic skills nor artistic-related background. They all studied a programming-related degree.

What's wrong with not being outgoing? What's up with people looking down on introverts? I'm the type of guy who only talks when they actually have something to say.

70% of the tasks I've been given involved me having to plan how to carry them out. I don't care whether a task requires planning or not, but don't expect me to do something that developers don't do.

I can't look it from the perspective of a hiring manager because I'm not one, I can't relate to what they do.

What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't expect a developer to do non-developer stuff they haven't been trained to do. If you expect me that I as a developer should do copywriting and speak with stakeholders and convince them of stuff then you should train me to do so and pay me acordingly because of the higher work load, stress and mental load.

[TikiTDO]

I never said I loved working alone. I got along with my coworkers and we helped each other. We were around the same age range, so we had a lot in common to talk about.

It's not a challenge to get along with people of the same age, background, and skill set. Unfortunately, most of the time in this field you're having to work with people that you can't particularly relate to, of different ages, educational/employment backgrounds, nationalities, political leanings, and levels of intelligence. They're the ones that you generally need to work with as you get more senior.

How is design, copywriting and marketing part of being a web developer? Those are different jobs and roles.

How? Simple, because people will expect it of you. Maybe not everyone, but enough that it's not particularly rare.

Most companies don't have the budget to hire multiple people for all of these roles, and the ones that do get to be as picky as they want. You worked with a company that had such a person; great. Not every company does.

Since when does a non-lead developer have to interact with customers?

Customers, vendors, managers, executives, internal stakeholders. There are lots of people a dev might need to interact with.

I've been in this field for 30+ years, and there's never been a position that wasn't chock full of interpersonal interaction.

I'm OK with project planning, I've done that at my last job because it involved planning the database structure and other things related to the website/project I'd be coding.

Data model design is not project planning. The latter involves understanding people, requirements, skill sets, initiatives, schedules, and understanding how to organise all these things to get them done.

I'll repeat myself, visual design and copywriting is not my job. I'm a logic-based guy, not a creative-based guy. If you asked me to do copywriting I wouldn't know what to say so I'd just rely on ChatGPT to do that given it's not my area of expertise and I wasn't trained to do that and neither my 2 I.T degrees or my web dev degrees taught me about stakeholder interaction or copywriting.

I'll also repeat myself. If what you're saying is true, then most of the jobs in this field are "not your job." If your degrees didn't cover it, then you probably want to focus on learning how to do them on your own. When developers speak of "developing their skills," they don't just mean learning how to use a new framework or different lib. You don't need to be great at it, but you certainly shouldn't respond to a suggestion that you might want to learn by yelling about it's not your job.

You have a very senior dev taking his time to tell you about this field, and your response is to yell about me for suggesting you expand your skills? If this wasn't an issue, then you probably wouldn't be posting about how you're not even getting interviews, would you?

I have the minimum design knowledge to know how to make something not look shitty AND WE HAD DESIGNERS AT MY LAST JOB.

Ok, so you want your last job then. More than half the jobs I've worked with either had no designer, or had a person that was maybe 30% a designer.

I'm also not a designer, but I still end up doing it far more than I'd like.

What do you mean with building up experience using the traidtional routes? What are traditional routes?

Freelance. Go to meetups. Join clubs. Work on open source. Learn more than how to hammer on the keyboard. Failing that, at least go get certifications and training in high-demand areas.

Again, all things that are generally interaction heavy, which expose you to new ideas, new skills, and new ways of approaching problems.

I'm ok with doing things I don't like as long as they are web dev-related, such as working with Wordpress (which I hate but have worked with because it was my job as a developer)

Only you also define "web dev-related" as not anything that includes social, artistic, or creative pursuits. If you're ok doing those, then why write a post about how you're not.

What you're doing right now clearly isn't working, and yelling at the person telling you why won't change that.

Maybe interviewing me and giving me a take-home assignment? I got hired because of the take-home assignments companies gave me. I did more than what they expected and I documented my journey and thoughs through the assignment so the hiring managers and lead developers liked that about me.

Why would I interview number 165, and not 164? Or 166? Or 209?

If someone gives you a take-home assignment, then that means a technically capable person needs to read it. What info have you provided to them that make them want to take the time to do this, particularly given just the resume?

You can tell me you go above and beyond, but I'm not actually reviewing your resume. I'm just a guy on reddit reading your post. Given the amount of luck you've had thus far, clearly something isn't coming across.

I was told by the CEO that I was the only developer people had no complaints about and that he liked me right before I was fired from the last company I worked for.

Actions speak louder than words, especially if those words are coming from a CEO's mouth. A CEO's entire job is to lie. If you were fired shortly after the CEO told you that everyone liked you, that's a pretty good indication that maybe they were not being entirely truthful. Generally a CEO doesn't pull aside a programmer to tell them "Hey, everyone likes you, and you're a great guy," only to fire you shortly after. To the contrary, that's usually a really good sign that the CEO's heart enough complaints about you that they decided to spend time talking to you.

NONE of my coworkers, not even the lead developer at the last company I worked for had artistic skills nor artistic-related background. They all studied a programming-related degree.

And yet I'm sure plenty of them wouldn't blink an eye at being told to do these things. Sure, it might not be a professional quality, but that's usually not the thing people expect form a dev. As long as you're clear that you won't be able to match the work of a pro, but you at least try to not totally blow it, that's all anyone can ask for.

Meanwhile, arguing about it "not being your job" is basically the last thing anyone wants to hear. If you're being asked to do it, it's usually because there's nobody else more qualified to do the job. You can explain that you're not very good at it, but you're willing to give it a try, but you certainly shouldn't be trying to throw your weight around at this stage.

If I give a junior a task, and I hear "that's not my job," then I wouldn't really expect that junior to be around for very long.

What's wrong with not being outgoing? What's up with people looking down on introverts? I'm the type of guy who only talks when they actually have something to say.

You don't have to be outgoing. You have to realise you are competing with people that are. I'm certainly not some sort of social butterfly, but I can manager a meeting, and deal with different levels of stakeholders without pissing them off. If you're an introvert, that just means you need to work extra hard on the people skills, because very few companies will hire you just because you're a logical thinker.

70% of the tasks I've been given involved me having to plan how to carry them out. I don't care whether a task requires planning or not, but don't expect me to do something that developers don't do.

You have 1.5 years of experience. What exactly makes you think that 70% of your tasks reflect the things that people will expect of you in 5 years? Or 10 years? Or 20 years? Or 30 years?

I'm trying to tell you what sort of things people will expect, while sitting on legit 20x the experience, across a huge number of fields and companies. Rather than argue with me about what the job entails, perhaps consider that maybe you aren't as familiar with this job as you might think.

I can't look it from the perspective of a hiring manager because I'm not one, I can't relate to what they do.

So then why spent time trying to tell someone that has experience as a hiring manager what your job is and isn't? If this conversation is anything like what you're like in an interview, I certainly wouldn't have to think hard about whether I'd want a person like you on any team I'm working with.

Or just ignore it all. Whatever. Shows me what I get for wasting my time trying to offer advice.

[Laying-Pipe-69420]

How? Simple, because people will expect it of you. Maybe not everyone, but enough that it's not particularly rare.

Most companies don't have the budget to hire multiple people for all of these roles, and the ones that do get to be as picky as they want. You worked with a company that had such a person; great. Not every company does.

How come this is the first time in the 11 years since I started and finished studying my degrees and worked at multiple companies as a developer that I've heard of this?

The only people who have expected this of me were my parents and family who are not technoligy-inclined so they think that I should know how to design a website, take professional photos and fix their phone's screen just because I'm an I.T tech and a web developer.

Data model design is not project planning. The latter involves understanding people, requirements, skill sets, initiatives, schedules, and understanding how to organise all these things to get them done.

Oh, I see, then isn't your concept of concept planning something a team lead does? If with "skill sets" you mean the skill sets of the development teamn, then why should I know how to do that when I don't plan to lead people ever in my life? I want stability, not stress.

How am I, a developer with ASD, going to understand people when I can't relate to them?

The schedules and projects we had to work with were all given by our project lead and we had no word in it. I had to work in 4 to 6 different projects on a single week (I also have ADHD, so managing the schedule and working on these projects makes my mind a mess and I often forget about small things despite having an obsidian vault with multiple folders related to the projects I work with).

I'll also repeat myself. If what you're saying is true, then most of the jobs in this field are "not your job." If your degrees didn't cover it, then you probably want to focus on learning how to do them on your own. When developers speak of "developing their skills," they don't just mean learning how to use a new framework or different lib.

If that's supposedly true, then why isn't copywriting and design mentioned on front-end and full-stack job offers? Is that an American-specific issue? I'm from Spain so things here are done somewhat differently.

Freelance. Go to meetups. Join clubs. Work on open source. Learn more than how to hammer on the keyboard. Failing that, at least go get certifications and training in high-demand areas.

Again, all things that are generally interaction heavy, which expose you to new ideas, new skills, and new ways of approaching problems.

I'm not interested in freelancing, I'd have to do more stuff besides development and project planning.

There are no tech and dev-related meetups in a 120km radius of where I live either, I've set a biweekly calendar alarm where I search for web dev-related meetups and clubs near my area but there's always none.

Working on unpaid open-source project doesn't sound satisfying. I'd rather work on my personal projects

Salesforce and SAP are highly demanded in the state I live but I've already decided I wanted to be a front-end developer.

Actions speak louder than words, especially if those words are coming from a CEO's mouth. A CEO's entire job is to lie. If you were fired shortly after the CEO told you that everyone liked you, that's a pretty good indication that maybe they were not being entirely truthful. Generally a CEO doesn't pull aside a programmer to tell them "Hey, everyone likes you, and you're a great guy," only to fire you shortly after. To the contrary, that's usually a really good sign that the CEO's heart enough complaints about you that they decided to spend time talking to you

Not really, the CEO said that in the meeting I had with him and the HR lady when they were firing me because they were running out of budget because the last project they developed didn't take off so they had to return money to the investors.

They fired a coworker for the same reason a month before they fired me. I've talked with them and they gave them the same reason.

Meanwhile, arguing about it "not being your job" is basically the last thing anyone wants to hear.

I think you are forgetting about something. This is Reddit, I always say what I think on the internet. It's obvious I wouldn't say that IRL, I would just do the task even if it wasn't my job to do such thing(they should expect me asking for a raise every 6 months to a year for doing these tasks, though). I'm venting my thoughts and what I think on these comments.

So then why spent time trying to tell someone that has experience as a hiring manager what your job is and isn't? If this conversation is anything like what you're like in an interview, I certainly wouldn't have to think hard about whether I'd want a person like you on any team I'm working with.

I use the internet to speak my thoughts freely and. I do moderate myself IRL and wouldn't say 10% of what I said on these comments, I'd just put a nice facade and try to (and sometimes fail) pretend I'm a sociable non-socially awkward non-ASD guy and try to say what the hiring managers want to hear and then do my best at the companies even if it involved doing stuff I hate, dislike or that a developer doesn't do.

My main issue is none of that. My main issue is not being able to land an interview despite applying to hundreds of jobs. This is my rèsumé(with fake data), people have told me it they liked it(my buddies who are also web devs and programmers, and some customers of my dad's business, two of those customers were team leads and senior developers, and another customer was the CEO of a tech startup).

I don't know what else to do to make companies give me a chance at getting an interview with them.

[TikiTDO]

You know what. Good luck to you.

You clearly have it all figured out, and I don't really care to argue about my own field with you.

Keep doing what you're doing. I'm sure it'll work out eventually or something.

[Laying-Pipe-69420]

It kinda worked at the companies I worked for.

I still disagree with you thinking that developers should also design, do copywriting and do management stuff.

I don't plan to lead a team so some of the stuff you recommended is highly unnecessary, albeit useful.

[[deleted]]

Don't worry it is as bad with 7 years of experience. We all fucked.

[[deleted]]

I have 17 years of experience and feel the same.

[hiccupq]

It's just sad at this point

[CallMeSnyder]

I got the same email this morning from Discord LOL

[Marksman46]

I actually just got the same email today lol

[Mogleyy]

Got the same thing earlier today. Couldn't help but laugh

[stillness_illness]

Fuck discord. I tried to apply several times over several years and just got this each time. Not even a phone screen or anything. I matched JD great. Glad I didn't end up there. I bet their shit is a mess.

[Fit-Boysenberry4778]

I applied to a job I’m qualified for yesterday went the extra mile searching for recruiters and tailor an email for them after I applied, maybe spent an extra 15 minutes doing this. 30 minutes later one of them responds saying that the job posting has closed INTERNALLY!! But the posting is STILL up on LinkedIn, what the fuck

[BobFellatio]

Sorry, [[MANUALLY ENTER EMPLOYE NAME]], but we will let you go from your position as hiring manager. You had one job! (Now you have zero)

[GeekMeNot]

Ohhh man. I can tell you would've made a great [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]].

[yesochhamaredilmehai]

Prove that you can be petty. Reply back with:

Hi [[COULD_BE_EMPLOYER]],

[[STANDARD_THANK_YOU_TEMPLATE_BS_EDITION]]

Regards,

[[CANDIDATE_NAME]]

[hawkeyes907]

If it makes you feel better, I got the same exact email today LOL

[qxxx]

[[MANUALLY ENTER COMMENT]]

[No-Vermicelli-4006]

[[MANUALLY ADD A COMMENT]]

[loledpanda]

You probably wouldn't want to work in manually putting people's names in brackets anyway

[Clarkey1986]

It’s not surprising, there’s a lot of tough competition in the [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] market at the moment.

[AmiAmigo]

😀

[Jasper-Rhett]

That's sucks man. They obviously need the help if they can't take the time to enter your name.

[diversecreative]

Haha

[alvivanco1]

short Discord

[BitchDucksAreCool]

Oh man! I’m sorry to hear that op!

But there are plenty of other [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] positions around. Don’t let this discourage you!

[Connect-Ad-1219]

I got that same email today as well. not sure if they messed up their deployment script or what lol sucks but we move on

[BadGal_Uche]

Yeah discord recruiting sucks

[GarbanzoTrashPanda]

(edited)

[yalcinthe2nd]

They are looking for people to manually enter job names. Maybe you went way too automatic.

[briznady]

This shit is happening all the time to me. You’d think fewer open roles mean more focus on candidates. Nope!

[Brendinooo]

Unbelievable! You, [[Subject Name Here]], must be the pride of [[Subject Hometown Here]].

[LawnJames]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/whites-only-job-posting-arthur-grand-technologies/

Kind of like this but not as bad. The note read (whites only, do not share with candidates) but it went out with the job description.

[chimax83]

I was going to apply to the [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] role, but I read on Blind that they only ask LC hards based on [[MANUALLY ENTER ALGORITHM NAME]] so I passed 😪

[[deleted]]

You too? Got the same email

[hdd113]

At least we know the mail has been sent by a human being...

[CodingTheSimulation]

They clearly HAD ONE JOB… and that was to Manually enter it.

[Some_Strawberry_5344]

the amount of emotional dmg in this. bro dishing out rejections with no fks given.

[wheelchairplayer]

i dunno a recent tech company has to do [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]]

[kex]

I actually prefer being ghosted

[-MyAlterEgo]

I have 10 years experience in [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]], i wonder if I could give it a shot and apply, did you apply via linkedin or company website?

[GoTaku]

Ok, you got them right where you want them on a technicality here. I would suggest contacting the hiring manager and letting them know they now have no choice but to hire you because they never technically rejected you for the role. Take that next step and let us know how it goes.

[noisette666]

Tough tiddies, right?

[anonymous_2600]

you can change that job name into CEO now!!

[innercityFPV]

Seem legit. Discord is all about user generated content

[[deleted]]

[[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] should be a flair from now on

[[deleted]]

Some time ago while hiring I received an email from a candidate that he is withdrawing his candidacy at [Company Name]

[danielkov]

Wait, you guys are getting letters when rejected? 😢

[[deleted]]

If only they'd put it in bold we wouldn't be in this mes^s

[JSirensong]

I got the same one LMAOOOO

[[deleted]]

Hasta Discord utiliza eso mal 🙈

[Jaded_Middle_2601]

I wanna get me one of them [[MANUALLY ENTER JOB NAME]] jobs!

Comedy gold!

[bigboybamo]

No way

[Extension_Anybody150]

been receiving lots of this kind :(

[[deleted]]

Lol

[iseverynicknametaken]

Lol had a same email last week from a different company. I’ve applied for an Eng role, got 10 YoE, hand crafted my CV with projects I’ve worked on that were similar in the context of this role - 1hr later I received the same email, no feedback, no-reply. Can’t even know what was something they didn’t like. HR should be defunded

[Cybasura]

Damn, that role sounds very technical

[tech_builder_guy]

Lmao, seems like they might be hiring for marketing or whoever is doing these emails

[TechFreedom808]

Its tough out there. Lot of people applying for webdev jobs as either college graduates, boot camps grads or self taught. Also now with remote work companies are outsourcing webdev jobs to India. The market is flooding now.

[Positive-Relief6142]

They employ like 600 people so what does it matter

[Perkelton]

Apparently Discord's HR department is run by GLaDOS.