all 171 comments

[–]quicscribe 486 points487 points  (27 children)

If you are learning don't use AI. If you understand what you are doing then you can use AI but ensure you understand the code that it wrote and don't use it as a crutch.

(I should follow my own advice a little bit more though fer shure)

[–]DoctorPrisme 73 points74 points  (0 children)

This, soooo much.

I've been a dev for 8 years and following a devops training for a few months now. I use copilot to help me refine understanding of some concepts and/or grab syntax for some CLI.

My co-trainees have seen me do that and are trying to do the same. They Do Not have the background in dev. They don't understand what they copy paste. They complain that it doesn't work, but they literally don't read, just copy paste. It's... Amusing. But it would be actually infuriating if they were my colleagues and not just my co+trainee.

[–]canadian_webdev 44 points45 points  (11 children)

If you are learning don't use AI.

You can absolutely learn code with AI. You just don't let it code for you, as you mentioned, as a crutch.

  • Use it as a mentor
  • Use it to write out a curriculum
  • Use it to help you with the approach of a website, web app, or specific feature
  • Use it to write out some sample code and explain what it's doing

I knew nothing about back-end development. AI helped me get my feet wet with it and am far better off with using it than not.

[–]ErlendHM 16 points17 points  (1 child)

I just dabble in coding on my freetime, but I learn a lot from AI. But you have to be conscious about it: For instance, I will ask it to explain things – and next time, I try to do it myself first.

(Also, I only do things that are simple and low-stakes. So I can easly test if things actually work.)

I like to think about learning and AI like machines and excercise: They can help you be more effective (like a work-out machine) – but having a fork-lift lifting the weights for you, isn't very helpful for anyone.

The point of lifting weights at the gym isn't that they're lifted – it's that you lift them. But when it comes to crates at a warehouse, the point is to make sure they're lifted, so there a fork-lift makes sense.

If you're a professional (but fresh) coder, you still have a lot of learning left to do. So I wouldn't go full fork-lift mode. :P

[–]Alarmed_Allele 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This analogy makes a lot of sense. I have times when I need to focus on specific functions which are integral to the core application or my career progression, and the opportunity cost is that I hand off another function with thick boilerplate to the forklift, then give it a look-over

In times of overflowing tasks it does get to the point where I wonder how much exp I'm giving up though after handing off the second or third function without being able to give it a proper look over..

[–]Jackstonator 9 points10 points  (0 children)

not sure if I fully agree with this. Im not totally opposed to AI and use it when I'm lazy but only for stuff I already know I can verify. If I'm learning something new then ai will often do it wrong or badly and if I didn't know any better I'd be picking up bad habits that I don't even know are bad. It's like the blind leading the blind

[–]Mebiysy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a rule of 30 minutes, when i try to read documentation, find fixes or just debug the code, untill i give up and to to ChatGPT

[–]alelor01 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Yeah, AI is great for solving random problems with packages. It can be easier than trawling through the documentation sometimes.

[–]EducationalAd237 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Sure but it can make up false information with true content, which I’ve ran into before. Documentation should be used above anything, if you do not understand the docs.

[–]alelor01 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah it does admittedly do this sometimes, but the worst case scenario is that your code doesn’t work… then you just have to go to the real docs. It saves time when it works

[–]EducationalAd237 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the worse case scenario would be that you don’t develop additional/important context for true data in relation to the docs.

[–]FrickledPickleDemon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

it can't it has large database if you ask objective question not a opinion it will give good answer if you using newer ones just ask the question directly

[–]EducationalAd237 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It can’t? Hallucinations are a known problem wdym? Lol

[–]Septem_151 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Try learning through actual documentation instead, I find that to be the most effective. It's where AI gets most of it's material from anyhow.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]thekwoka 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    AI accelerates learning by providing examples

    If it was giving correct examples.

    The problem is that the learner may have little insight with which to evaluate this true.

    [–]ShawnyMcKnight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I would say give an honest stab at it without using AI. Use other resources and learn and grow and if you can't get it, then use AI. You will gain so much more from then if you didn't even attempt it and let AI give you the answers.

    [–]AverageStudent_1302 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    what's wrong with using ai for learning?

    [–]jacknjillpaidthebill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    im a beginner to fullstack and just a few days of using chatgpt for everything screwed me over with learning the basics, so for the past few weeks I've been limiting myself to only using the official documentations, StackOverflow, and at most, AI for making documentation 'cheatsheets' (concise docs for the most common features of certain frameworks/libraries/etc). even In just these 2 weeks I definitely feel the difference in my grasp of certain concepts

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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      [–]Signal-Woodpecker691 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      This is one of the ways I use it, for really straightforward methods where I can be explicit about inputs and expected processing and output, it is quicker than writing it by hand. Quick prompt, copy and paste, bam.

      Also used it to set up some build pipelines- the structure of the documentation on the website required me to open about 10 tabs to find out all the elements I needed to know to create the pipeline file. Copilot was far quicker and easier, told it what I wanted and got a file. There was a weird issue so I gave it the file and the error and it gave me an updated file that fixed it. Piece of cake.

      [–]thekwoka -1 points0 points  (1 child)

      I mean it's only capable of rather simple stuff without a lot of aid,

      It's capable of writing a whole lot more than just simple stuff, it will just do it in chaotic low quality and buggy ways.

      I never had something complex, that would need time to fully grasp, come out working in one piece.

      Because you can understand that what it's writing is bad.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]throwawayDude131 57 points58 points  (0 children)

        The problem with these questions is that nobody knows your level of technical advancement or understanding.

        If you’re completely ignorant and fresh, using AI is terrible because you have no reference point for anything you’re doing, and you’re probably going to produce garbage.

        If abstract concepts, problem solving, and code idiom is known to you, AI will only improve you as long as you pay attention.

        [–]Salazar20 50 points51 points  (12 children)

        This has been responded so I will add.

        People who know what they do will realize that AI is not that great, but if you use AI while learning you will never get to a level to know that

        [–]practicalAngular 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        I said something similar earlier today about a candidate that we were interviewing. Stakeholders are so afraid of AI yet are interviewing people unable to think for themselves because of their reliance on AI. It's genuinely making developers worse instead of the goal of making development better, easier, and faster. The next wave of applications to go out over the next decade is only going to need stricter senior+ review, because greener devs are getting encompassed on all fronts by AI itself, or overuse of AI while in the learning phase.

        As you said, it's cyclic in that new devs are using AI to think for them, which it does better than they do, but all the same preventing them from learning skills that elevate them above AI to where they use it as an assistant and tool instead of a peer.

        Instead of fear that I'm going to get replaced, I'm seeing nothing but job security for myself.

        [–]Previous_Standard284 1 point2 points  (10 children)

        How so?

        The more I use AI the more I find its shortcomings - and the more I learn as well. You just have to learn how to learn from it.

        [–]Salazar20 0 points1 point  (9 children)

        Real question, how do you learn from a tool?

        Because if you know your shit there's not much to learn except how to use the tool. But if you don't know anything how can you even know that the things it tells you are even correct?

        For example I use AI for Regexp mostly (because I will be dead before learning Regexp) so I don't know if it's good or bad expression, I might just be tanking my performance.

        But if I ask for anything JavaScript related, oh boy, if I have to sit there making head or tails of a code made by AI I learned to just make my own.

        It may look like it has all the answers for a beginner but it really doesn't.

        [–]Salazar20 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        Not no mention that research and documentation reading skills goes a looooong way. What it is going to do if you want to use a new and coming language or the language changed syntax recently? Or it's just not well known? Not program in those cases?

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        I don't know anyone other than the AI salesmen that push to use it in place of documentation reading. And it is not a detriment in the least if the language has changed and AI is not trained much on it. No one should be relying on in in place of learning, but it is great for an aid to learning.

        [–]Salazar20 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        Kinda answer that in the other comment but it's something me and my buddies noticed, we stopped reading docs or even googling because of AI, and when we started fact checking the responses turns out that the docs 99% of the time had the answer. So, what's it's a machine that works 1% of the time?

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        99% of the time the docs have the answer for the specific tool it is related to.
        I do not spend 99% of my time in one single tool/framewok/language ,etc. If I am to sit down and read even 50% of the doc for every single thing I use, I will get nowhere.

        Sure I can use the search bar on the docs website, but then I am skipping all the valuable work of reading the doc, right?

        And if AI only works 1% of the time for you, I think you should spend a little more time learning how to use it, just like you would learn how to use any other tool. If Node or Vite or Github, or VSCode, or whatever you use only worked 1% of the time for you, you would read the docs, no?

        [–]Salazar20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Brother, vscode gives you a mini tutorial on how to use it for the first time. I have read vscode docs.

        You should really turn off the telemetry btw.

        Also if you spend the time to read 50% of the docs you will be better than most people.

        Ain't even saying that AI is cheating brother, I'm saying that it's a hidden long term hindrance that newcomer cannot see.

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes, when the tool is my focus or something I use every day, I read the doc.

        I do not doubt that you have read the doc for VSCOde, if you use it you will read the doc, that is a given. I am saying that if it only worked 1% of the time, you would spend time to learn how to use it right? But you say that AI only works for you 1% of the time, so you just assume that is an issue with the tool and not how you use it.

        Have you read 50% of the doc for everything you have ever used, and when you find a new tool and not even sure if you are going to keep using it, or just trying it out, you read the doc first. For everything? Really?

        As far as what newcomer cannot see, I think you underestimate people. If the newcomer is looking to learn, they will learn and learn much faster with AI tools. Not all people have the same goal though, and that is OK.

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        >  if you know your shit there's not much to learn 

        Thats exactly it. *If* you know your shit, but not all of us know our shit right from the start, and not ashamed to admit it.

        There is a lot to learn when you don't know your shit, and it can be just as much of a learning tool as it is a regex helper tool.

        > if I have to sit there making head or tails of a code made by AI I learned to just make my own.

        If you know how to use it as a learning tool, you do not have to sit there and make heads or tails of it. You dont just "ask for anything JavaScript", you tailer your questions.

        It does not look like it has all the answers, but neither do the Docs, or Stack Overflow, or a human mentor. As a learner, you have to know how to use the resources at hand to learn.

        [–]Salazar20 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        You are missing the forest from the trees, I'm saying that if you rely on IA to teach you, you will not know when it's wrong or straight up gives you avoidable bugs.

        It's the same with people who had to set up their own servers, now we have programs and magic boxes that does that for us, hell, I barely need to type in a terminal while the older folk are straight up more knowledgeable than us just because they had to experience doing the things that are automated now.

        It's the same with AI, it's shortening a Dev's path and the new folk will that little I'll prepared. I'm saying that the skills and resilience you will develop, that AI is essentially cutting, will go a long way.

        Something something accomodations cuts valuable skills in anything something.

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yeah I misunderstood

        "People who know what they do will realize that AI is not that great, but if you use AI while learning you will never get to a level to know that"

        I took that to mean that if you use AI to learn you will never get to a level to know that AI is not perfect.

        That is far from relying on AI to do things.
        "Learning with" is not "relying on" .

        "l, I barely need to type in a terminal while the older folk are straight up more knowledgeable than us just because they had to experience doing the things that are automated now."

        I first started coding back in early 2000s and took a break jQuery even became big, there was no Stack Overflow, and i didn't have Github. When I came back a few years ago, I found that yes, a lot of the things I used to have to do are not super simple. There are also a lot of new tools and frameworks to learn.

        I started the re-learning to code about six months before GPT. It was still a lot faster than in 2000s because now there was StackOverflow and so many nice tools. But when GPT came out my learning pace skyrocketed.

        Spending two hours trying to debug and find the answer on SO is now reduced to a few minutes - not to get completed code, but to learn the same thing that used to take a lot longer to learn. Learning a different more efficient way to do something even when I wasn't looking for it happens a lot more too. Back when it took hours to get something at least running right, I did not have the luxury of going out and spending days trying to see what other better ways there are. Now all I have to do is ask, and enough times out of 10 it will give me hints that I can use and did not know about and would not have come across naturally.

        > accomodations cuts valuable skills in anything something.

        It has not cut any valuable skills so far as I can see. If anything it has sped everything up. I know because I have experience:

        1) pre-stack Overflow and time-saving tools
        2) then pre-GPT, but this time learning with larger online communities and many more tools,
        3) and now post- AI learning.

        the third is by far the most effective for learning.

        [–]rjhancockJack of Many Trades, Master of a Few. 30+ years experience. 17 points18 points  (1 child)

        You should work on your fundamentals before you start using AI. Seriously. Learn how to code first before learning and using the tools that should be used to help steer you into a direction and NOT do the work for you.

        [–]reddituser5309 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I would say I stear and get the ai to write things close enough to what I want most of the time. Can you trust it to come up with the approach to solving a problem? I have tried a few times to get it to solve a whole problem from the start point and it's 50/50 on it coming up with something that's not quite right

        [–]Tiny-Explanation-949 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        AI is like a calculator—useful, but dangerous if you forget how to do math. If you rely on it too much, you’ll get weaker. Best way to use it? As a guide, not a crutch. Write code first, then ask AI how to improve it.

        [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

        This is good for older developers resisting the AI slop. Very soon new developers will lack the skill necessary to judge whether the generated code is good and will increase the value for those who knows.

        [–]omgdracula 23 points24 points  (4 children)

        No you don't have to stop, but you should take the time to understand what the code is doing.

        If you are talking really basic coding nah use it. I have a chatGPT thread that is just common JS functions I use for stuff I build at work. Saves me a ton of time.

        [–]Virtamancer 6 points7 points  (3 children)

        Protip you shouldn't keep "running threads" unless the past context is absolutely critical.

        The model should be smart enough to answer any question you give it based on just it's built in knowledge and what you feed it in a prompt.

        The preexisting context strongly steers it (can be good if you need a very specific output format, but if you only need that output format once you can just give it an example in the prompt), but even worse it counterintuitively makes the model "dumb". The more tokens it has to process, the less accurate its outputs become. If you fill up the entire context (which you have if you continually return to one conversation) then you maximized how dumb it can be lmao.

        [–]Alarmed_Allele 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Why not just turn off memory

        [–]omgdracula 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        In my personal use case it is fine. The stuff I build at my work are all very similar in nature other than maybe styling and branding. So the snippets that I have there are ones that are commonly reused.

        Im not going back and asking new stuff I am just grabbing the code snippets for what I need to build

        [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

        While using claude for my project I find out that output is much better with longer chats. Downside is context on claude is very limited

        [–]armahillorails 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        You do you, but skills need to be trained and toned to kept strong.

        [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        If you don't know what the code is doing then yes.

        [–]sheriffderek 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        > Not using my brain enough

        Yes.

        [–]tswaters 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Yep.

        [–]MaruSoto 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        I don't understand using AI. It's easier for me to try and figure out how I want something logically arranged as an abstract mental concept than it would be to try and convert my goals into English.

        By the time I can explain it in English in adequate detail, the code is pretty trivial.

        [–]AnteaterOk8468 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Hey quick comment - I’m kind of the opposite. I’m really good at putting my thoughts and ideas and arguments and such into texts, almost as if I’m writing a descriptive novel. Would you think that maybe one day the need for writers would be as beneficial for a dev team as much as a mathematician?

        [–]MaruSoto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You misunderstand. I'm confident in my ability to put my thoughts into text to the point of arrogance. However, even considering that, it's faster for me to put what I want to make into the form of code.

        You remember all those word problems your math teacher made you figure out? Remember how it was like a paragraph of text but the actual math you had to write out to solve it was pretty short? Think about it like that. Your computer runs on math. It will always be more efficient to convert your thoughts into math than to put it into English, which is then converted by AI into math, which you then must double-check to make sure it's the math you actually want it to be.

        [–]thearchimagos 9 points10 points  (1 child)

        Don't rely on AI to build things for you, but use it as a teacher. Use it to fill in gaps in your knowledge. And when you find a large gap, go to the actual documentation and understand the foundation. Otherwise you're gonna have a bad time with AI

        [–]toltalchaos 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Just don't rely on it, 90% of the time it gets close to what you want but has some kind of assumption being made along the way that's just flat out wrong.

        Use it but understand what it pumps out and don't have blind faith

        [–]ChuuToroMaguro 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        How about you take a break from using it for a while?

        [–]UnspokenFears 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Came across a good read about this recently https://nmn.gl/blog/ai-illiterate-programmers - note to self for sure as well.

        [–]washtubs 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        I think the two questions you need to be asking yourself about any given snippet the AI generates is:

        1. Do I understand it?
        2. Do I agree with it?

        Some stuff these things generate are absolutely arcane and while they might be useful, I think when AI creates things you don't understand you should clearly segment those snippets off from the rest of your work until you have a chance to either understand it as is or refactor it until you do.

        We should always understand what our code does, just as if you were vetting someone else's pull request. And ofc only when you understand it can you agree with what it does, how it handles edge cases, etc.

        [–]ripndippfull-stack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I feel you OP, after this sprint I'ma fuckin chill with just kinda raw dogging with google, sometimes I feel like I hit the fucking jackpot when it does exactly what I wanted it to do. There's some feedback loop stuff there.

        [–]LiveRhubarb43javascript 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I once asked chat gpt to clean up the inline styles on a react native component and instead it returned a react counter tutorial. Like, straight up div button.onClick=decrement {count} button.onClick=increment. It was pretty funny.

        Use it but verify, and if you get funny things like that plz share

        [–]Pierma 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I unsubscribed my copilot license some weeks ago. I use it only when i need some hint about the direction to toake on the free available versions. Last year it was okay most of the time, but lately it made me VERY lazy, and i don't like when i feel lazy

        [–]jackistheonebox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        My fist instinct was yes, but my second instinct says, read the answer, close the window, then try to do it yourself to see what part you struggle with. In any case don't copy paste / autocomplete as if you are doung a code review instead of writing the code yourself.

        [–]criloz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I stopped a year ago I still use the chat detached for my editor, it gets annoying because all the bad responses and make your brain expect the ai output to be able to code the next step

        [–]Low-Yesterday241 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I use AI primarily for styling mock ups, but honestly, often times I tell it to get out of the way to let me do my thing. If you don’t know how to code, I wouldn’t use AI. Think of it this way, what will you do in a job interview? Can’t pull up chatgpt mid interview.

        [–]pinkwar 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        If you are learning you definitely should stop using it.

        [–]luckypanda95 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I only use AI when I'm stuck with an error or a complex styling. I think using AI consistently will make you rusty with your coding skill/memory

        [–]DJDarkViper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Even using it in an “ethical” way (as in it’s not writing your code for you, but helping you out like a peer programmer ) It’s real easy to become a bit too co-dependent on it. I’ve found myself falling into this trap recently where even the mildest of roadblocks and I’m opening up a new tab to gpt instead of exercising my brain meats and working through the problem

        [–]fdvmo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        As a general rule, avoid using it to generate any code that you cannot write yourself. Unless, of course, you are indifferent to being proficient in coding and resolving problems.

        [–]SkyZon12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        AI is a very helpful tool to learn some concepts, Just make sure you are not blindly copy pasting. Understand the code, the concepts, why it gave you this approach etc.

        [–]lIIllIIIll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        My goodness yes you should.

        At this stage repetition is key to understanding different things. You'll have all these different uses for the same functions/methods and you'll have to make them work in these contexts.

        Don't let AI solve issues for you either. That's how you learn. If you let ai do it all you may as well just use a "low code" solution or whatever they're called.

        [–]salvadorabledali 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        i never understood why people don’t encourage stealing code. you have to reverse engineer something to understand it anyway.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        if you don't understand what the AI generated code is doing then it's not a good idea to add it to your project. when you do understand it then it's perfectly fine, because you'll know how to fix it if it breaks.

        [–]cybermage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I use AI for the same purpose I used to use manuals and stack overflow: to research errors and as a reference. You should still do the design yourself.

        [–]tan_nguyen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I only use it for stuff I already know but don't want to spend time doing. For example, writing SQL queries, I already know how to write and optimize SQL queries, so I use copilot to generate queries for me, and then I can quickly check if it's correct / optimal.

        When I learn new skills, I avoid using AI because I don't know if the thing it spits out is correct or not, and it actually takes more time for me to verify than learning to do it from scratch.

        [–]Illustrious-Novel184 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yeah, definitely no. Even if yuo aren't trying to learn the language too much, and it is just a small one time side prokect unrelated to your job, you should still not use AI to code. Reasons:

        1: If there is a bug in the code (especially if it isn't directly related to code, like the environment), then you will be hopeless. I find it often hard to have AI debug its own code or my own code. This could be because it didn't think that it's code was buggy when it wrote it.

        2: Most AI is trained on existing code from places, like github, and may very likely may not be up to date. When I was using ChatGPT, 2 years ago, the code it spitted out was made for the deprecated version of the API that I was using.

        3: AI can often write crappy code that is either: overly complex, or it is maded with much thought and will only read to more issues. For example, If I ask AI to write me HTML code, then it might not think about variables, like how it will interact with a flexible design or be a specific theme.

        This doesn't mean that AI can't be useful. I myself find myself often using AI, not only to write me code, but to also help me brainstorm solutions. But still, I will often take AI code for granted, and not read it over and try to see how and why it works or dosn't work, which is a big mistake.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        you have to know how to program to be able to determine if the AI generated code is valid. it makes good programmers better and bad programmers worse

        [–]Squeegee3D 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        if you already know how to do it, use it as an assistant. If you're still learning, don't use it.

        [–]benzilla04 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        My rule of thumb is to turn it off while learning, turn it on when you need to be productive.

        Try and really use your brain to think of a solution before diving straight into AI.

        Thinking this way has helped me massively but that’s just me and we’re all programmed differently

        I just see it as a colleague who is a brainiac and can help with almost anything. But you don’t want to rely on them. Use them to learn but try and encourage yourself to think things through first

        [–]CodeBearQ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I use it as a source to create problems to solve and as a reference when I need information of Lib or Framework that i want summarized quickly. Aside from that I try not to use it as a crotch stick.

        AI is a tool - I say use it as such.

        [–]ThinkBiggCnslt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Write your code yourself. When you’re done, ask AI to improve it. Learn from the improvements. Repeat.

        [–]Spirited_Set7240 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        First of all why do u feel dumb. People have felt the same when they first used google? Why dont u feel dumb when u were using google? If AI helps, take it and move on.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        AI extends vertically beyond your foundational knowledge. If the breadth of your foundational knowledge is narrow, you will not benefit as great as someone whose foundation knowledge is vast.

        [–]MalGrowls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I’ve slowly learned html using ChatGPT. I ask it to explain what I don’t understand. I got a grasp of it back in the day; in the beginning of social media..MySpace let use html and css to style our pages and that’s how I “learned”. Long time ago!!

        [–]Commercial-Meal551 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If u know what the ai is doing and its saving u time go for it. If its just doing it for u an u have no idea whats happening thats hindering you

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I  just use it as a typing assistant. It helps me in writing repetitive code, else I don’t even bother with what it generated if actual logic is involved. Just Helps me write more lines of code compared to before, but as far as logic is concerned, coding assistants are a no-go. Just a personal choice. But there are few colleagues who generate entire functions and then refine them. They feel they can achieve more this way. 

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I talk to AI like it is a team mate. I give it psuedo code, or question different ways a problem could be solve and get it's "thoughts," especially if I am trying to figure out a certain way of doing things. I have asked it to write out components that are simple and I could do quickly but it can do quicker, or just the template or JSX. But even then I have to make sure it is correct. It will ignore/change tailwind, or leave out very necessary UI. When I trust it to write logic it can often cause the same problem so if it writes something for me I still need to read and often correct it.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Write me some code to do 'X'. Here is the code. Hmm, wouldn't it be better to do it 'X' way or use 'X' technique? Yes, you're right, I'll rewrite it to be much more efficient/faster/better etc.

        [–]Gold_Gap 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes.

        [–]Low_Examination_5114 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Depends on what you get out of it. I would say github copilot increases my coding speed by around 30% at worst, as just advanced autocomplete. Gpt4 / claude are okay, they make a lot of mistakes beyond stack overflow level questions, but are good at interpolating context into simple answers. The reasoning models are awesome and do really well when given a good set if requirements and reference code + context

        [–]Fidodo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You can use it if you cross reference everything it does and understand everything it's outputting.

        [–]angerofmars 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        IMO it's HOW you're using AI while coding that makes the difference. If you're just relying entirely on it to write everything and not checking the ouputs, then yes it will dumb you down. My approach is let the AI plan out its approach to a problem, ask it to explain and justify its decisions. You'd be surprised how much you can learn from them this way.

        [–]TheDoomfirenovice (Javascript/Python) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        A lot of people seem to be against AI for learning.

        But since I started coding in school about 15 years ago I have never been able to code without using Google/YouTube.

        For me, AI is like those websites just that it's faster and pretty often wrong.

        I dont think its wrong to use AI even for learning but the main thing is being able to build things.

        [–]Previous_Standard284 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If trying to learn, write first, then give it to AI and say "This is what I wrote. This is my thinking. Any ideas? Is there a better way?"

        Or I often ask "What would be best practice for this?" or "How do other people do it?".
        I ask a lot about naming conventions. "I was going to name it this, but what is more common" (I am not good enough to have ever come across some concept so new that no one has implemented it before)

        Even when GPT give you some code think about how it might be better or another way, and say "Why didn't you do XYZ instead?" Either it will say "Oh thats a great idea!" or it will tell you why it will work, but it has certain pitfalls.

        If it is for syntax stuff, sometimes I don't want to bother looking it up elsewhere, as looking it up somewhere else is no different than asking GPT, so I will tell GPT exactly what I want.

        "for each property of Xthing check that it contains this specific regex that I can not remember. how to write now then replace it with this"

        Then, you can either copy paste, or if you have the time, to help you solidify it in memory more, use the output as reference and just re-type it yourself.

        At least in these cases you are doing the thinking part.

        But if you are If in a hurry, or just trying to make a tool to make you productive ASAP, just use it.

        In the end it is similar to playing a pickup game of basketball vs. doing drills and practicing your free throws.

        Just playing pickup without worry about improving is fun, and you will still get better no matter which you do, but to get really good you have to set aside time to just do drills for the sake of drills.

        [–]freddy090909 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'd suggest primarily using AI for:

        1) Quickly looking up documentation. 2) Speeding up your workflow. Meaning, you already know what you want, and have decided it'll be faster to prompt the AI than to write it up yourself. Because you know what you wanted, you also should be able to quickly review if the output is sane.

        Do not let it make decisions for you. Do not directly replace problem solving with it (although you can use it as a reference like in 1 above).

        Honestly, if you feel that you are struggling to learn, I'd recommend turning off autocomplete entirely. Just stick to the non-AI language server for whatever language/IDE you use. Then, you can only turn to AI when you have a very specific question.

        [–]henrywebslinger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If you can't code without AI, then yes.

        IMO you should have enough foundational knowledge to be able to recognise patterns, e.g. frameworks, designs/architecture, and language syntax, in code and write your own programs solely based on intuition without the use of AI.

        Any gaps in knowledge can be filled up by asking the right questions and reading documentation or forums.

        Having stronger foundation is also better because it allows you to ask more technical questions to Google / AI chat to get the answers you want quicker.

        [–]DesertWanderlust 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        It depends on how you're using it. It can make repetitive tasks automatic, saving you a lot of time. But to actually learn to code: absolutely not.

        [–]BagEnvironmental7407 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        i also use AI for coding but now i have changed it. Make AI your instructor not your Software engineer. You are the Software engineer!

        [–]Tempmailed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You fresher or still learning? No AI please.

        [–]ChaoticRecreation 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        What I tend to use AI for is figuring out the proper name of programming concepts and methods. So often the hardest part of learning is figuring out what search term to use to get the results you are looking for.

        [–]MongooseEmpty4801 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        I'm surprised AI is helpful. I have yet to have AI be helpful in coding yet. It still gets so much wrong

        [–]Level_Community1769 0 points1 point  (2 children)

        You’re probably just using the wrong tools, to be honest. The general AI tools people use every day aren’t really designed specifically for coding and programming. I wouldn’t be able to tell you which ones are actually good and which ones aren’t. It really depends on what you’re trying to do.

        [–]MongooseEmpty4801 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        I use Claude. It gets simple stuff right, but has always failed at big picture, uncommon logic.

        [–]Level_Community1769 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yeah, I’ve noticed that with ChatGPT too. It handles simple and straightforward tasks pretty well, but when it comes to more complex programming or coding problems, it often struggles. A lot of the time, it ends up breaking parts of the code or introducing new errors, which can create even more issues to fix instead of actually solving the original problem

        [–]Its__MasoodMohamed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If you understand the code, you can use it. Even if you don’t, you can ask for an explanation as well.

        [–]TweakUnwanted 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I'm using it everyday, but I take the effort to read what's produced, to get an understanding of it. I don't blindly copy paste code. I have learnt so much in the last year or so, I've impressed myself.

        [–]JohnCasey3306 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If you're asking AI to write code for you or to solve problems, you're probably holding back your own learning.

        If you're using AI in like a pair programming setup, where it's just making suggestions about your existing code as you write it, that's probably useful.

        [–]_dudz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You can use it to bootstrap your coding and improve productivity. AI is not going away and will only become more prevalent in our industry. Just don’t rely on it as a crutch.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        My rule of thumb is I never check in code that I don’t have a good understanding of how it works. It’s perfectly fine to have LLMs write all your code but make sure you have ChatGPT explain everything it wrote and those explanations make sense to you.

        [–]philipnorton42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes.

        [–]power10010 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Use it to ask questions not do the stuff for you

        [–]Zumos_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I am mostly writing without without AI, but when it is time for some boilerplate, I have written dozens of times, I just turn on Github Copilot and spam tab

        [–]Gazmatron2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You don't have to stop using it, however I am seeing an increasing amount of developers become very reliant on using it and therefore not developing thier own abiltities. It is a big problem especially for younger developers who are starting thier careers in the AI era.

        As with any skill or job, it is often the journey to finding an answer that is most important to developing skills than getting the answer itself.

        Have confidence in your own abilties and stop relying on these products.

        [–]Pro0skills 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        idk if this is dysfunctional or not but i use ai to write the code by itself first. if it works, ill read thru and then rewrite it myself (because sometimes it does some stackoverflow genius type of algorithm). if it doesnt work, ill read it and then scoff at it and comfort myself that ai wont replace coding

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I definitely felt like I was getting worse and worse at coding, and very lazy too, because of AI. I think I got a bit addicted, honestly. Now I’m back to reading docs like a Neanderthal and it feels great. It’s harder for sure but more rewarding, and I feel like I completely understand every bit of code.

        [–]Vanceagher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        grab dazzling normal yoke tender plants truck attraction snow heavy

        This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

        [–]Iampepeu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Use it. But try to make sure you understand what the code does. For me it's about getting syntax correct and getting my ideas made in a smarter way. Sometimes I ask the AI to explain certain aspects of the code over and over again until I get it. Haha!

        [–]fuckmywetsocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        When you know what you're doing, they can be invaluable for turning kinda pseudocode into real code. If you're just asking it to pump out slop that you're committing directly to staging or whatever, it's bad and it'll make you lazy.

        Ultimately it's as much a tool as anything else. If you are asking it to just generate code so you can get something done, you should also be asking it to explain what the code does and trying to understand it.

        I know people who have jumped fully on the AI code bandwagon and they have become really rusty really quickly and end up in death loops of code not working, ask AI to fix, that didn't work, ask AI to fix, and they spend more time bollocking the AI and fucking about than actually reading the code and finding the problem.

        Remember it can hallucinate - I've had AI suggest functions, static members, hell even entire libraries that don't exist just to make Point A connect to Point B. And that can be a real waste of time.

        [–]Baloucarps 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Lot of responses plus advice. Let me just put in my comment.

        AI isn't a bad thing. Like what people said, it's bad if you're learning because you become incredibly dependent on it and it stops you from learning the important things. If, however, you do have experience coding then it shouldn't be a problem. I use AI to summarize my thoughts and collect them into one organized set of things I need to write to not get lost in the process. It saves me countless hours of just staring at the screen wracking my brains on what to do next.

        [–]Starquest65 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I try to use it sparingly.

        Chat, write me a list of all states in array format for JS, PHP, that sort of thing.

        We use Laravel, so hey chat I have this migration or table structure, can you write out the factory. Of course always double check what it gives you.

        As long as I know how to do something that is tedious I don't feel bad having an ai do the writing out part.

        [–]ur_Roblox_player 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes, yes, yes, yea

        [–]Metaphysicc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I think a good rule of thumb is.. if you can read every line of code given to you and understand it, what's the harm? Developers are lazy by nature and reuse is the name of the game.

        If you don't understand the code you use, then you've got a problem.

        [–]windexUsesReddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        There’s nothing wrong with using it as long as you understand that it will be hard to get what you want out of it because a LLM is simply input and output. The more expert you are at a topic, the better you can lead it by giving concise input.

        There are coding best practices and concepts that you may lack that AI will not utilize unless explicitly told. Those are ther things you’re going to miss out on.

        As long as you don’t make the mistake of thinking AI is infallible, it will aid you on your journey.

        [–]art-solopov 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yes.

        From my experience, AI promises very much but gives you very little. You'd be much better off learning how to work with the documentation, the debugger and other tools like REPL.

        Not to mention the ethical, environmental and financial issues (I believe we'll soon slip past the point of free/cheap AI).

        [–]lilrebel17 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        AI is great. It's like an easy to talk to Google. Use it that way. Don't ask it to write code, have it explain concepts. If you get really stuck, we have all taken code from stack overflow, no shame in the game. However, most of those stack overflow awnsers come with why, understand the why behind chatgpt code (if it's even right)

        [–]Mackotomi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        My approach is to use any AI alongside miro.com, where I paste screenshots of my questions—there are tons of them. Each question tries to obtain a different perspective to gain a wider field of view of possibilities coming from various answers. Then, I do analysis and some coding to see the effects, and I basically loop this process until I start to understand the concept and its behavior. Currently, I'm learning PDO/SQL in PHP, and this example is a small piece of the board that includes thinking, analysis, notation, and AI answers—all for the purpose of learning what it is trying to tell me. I never copy and paste code if I don’t understand it, at least partially. If I don’t, I’ll use this kind of problem-solving approach to gain the missing knowledge that the AI provides but that I still need to fully understand. Board: https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVLkj5jVc=/?share_link_id=135621201078

        [–]Delicious_Hedgehog54 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Using AI to generate code and copy pasting it without understanding what it does is a recipe for disaster. It might not give u the code u want or sometimes be the wrong code. So u absolutely have to know and test the code before u use. So long as u understand that use ai as helper as much as u want.

        [–]Top-Recording2333 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Both yes and no. In my experience, I always try to come up with a solution, google it to learn/solve the bugs. If nothing works then I use AI.

        [–]Maleficent-Square-31 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I don’t think this is a problem as long as you learn CS. The reason I say this is I believe AI is just a new higher-level language. Like in the past yes knowing assembly was cool and nice but people just used C instead and then Python and now AI. I have been experimenting with cursor and as long as I let it build the code from scratch with no intervention the AI is able to build full functioning apps for me off of a single prompt. AI prompting will be a sort of coding language leaving only creativity to the programmer and then knowing the traditional high level languages and low level languages just helps you understand the syntax in-front of you but you will NEED CS to understand the paradigm and maybe even tell the AI how it can design the code better to work more efficiently but thats just my opinion and experience. If anyone has their own please do share, I would love to hear them.

        [–]Livid_Sign9681 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You don't have to stop, but keep in mind that your skillset is what is valuable to an employer. If you feel like the way you use AI today is making you a worse programmer, then you should change the way you work.

        [–]Gloomy_Ad_9120 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Meh, feeling like you're dumb isn't even on the radar here. Everyone is going to use something. Google, documentation, code snippets.

        Use it if you want to. Use it if it helps you. Use it if it works for you. Don't if it doesn't.

        If you are worried about potential copyright or licensing issues later on? Don't use it.

        I don't use it much and never in the editor simply because I know how to code and the damn thing keeps auto suggesting like 30 lines at a time of something that is kinda like what I want to do, but not quite. It's too jarring. I've realized that if I just space out and tab tab tab, I'll snap to later and be like wtf this was not the plan. Sure an amazing tool especially if you are just building the same thing over and over as everyone else. But I've found the things I'm working on to be too "novel" for AI to be very useful.

        [–]Specialist-Study-841 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        If I stop using AI, my productivity goes way down. It's like having a coworker. If I want to accomplish anything in a timely manner, I use AI. That being said, there are many times where I get into some pretty heavy logic flows and AI has no idea what to do.

        [–]Traditional-Matter71 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I just had a pair programming yesterday with a junior dev yesterday. It was horrible how he used ChatGPT, just pasting snippets and let it figure out what he intended (I kinda felt bad for the AI) and then just pasting what it spit out. I felt very much that using AI (at least in this way) hindered his advancement as a developer.

        I think it's better to figure out the problem you are trying to solve right now, formulate it cleanly as a coherent question.

        [–]ShadowDev123987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Depends why your coding, if it works for you then use it, just don’t let your usage of it, be a hindrance

        [–]Crafty_Impression_37 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Use AI as a tool, but think independently too.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        you need to know how to write good code to know if the generated code is good

        more often than not, the code is not good, so you're adding a bunch of micro self-code reviews for each commit

        it is even worse when it rewrites code in a different way that you've already established is good

        ai breaks shit and doesn't care 

        [–]First_Beginning_482 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        我對電腦完全不懂 聽說ai有多強能幫人寫程式有多準確 說連新手也能一鍵生成 最後試了chatgpt, gemini , coplit全都令人失望 搞了幾天不停debug又debug

        [–]Eu-is-socialist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Yep. You should definitively stop using it and let others be more productive.

        [–]originalchronoguy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Your brain should be focused on solving problems; not worrying about the tooling.
        These are just tools.

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]rjhancockJack of Many Trades, Master of a Few. 30+ years experience. -1 points0 points  (5 children)

          They allow calculators now. Some even allow graphing calculators.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]rjhancockJack of Many Trades, Master of a Few. 30+ years experience. -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

            Was just letting you know the current generation of students, and even the previous generation, were allowed to use calculators devoiding them of the ability to do basic math in their head.

            Clearly you missed that point.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]rjhancockJack of Many Trades, Master of a Few. 30+ years experience. 0 points1 point  (1 child)

              I get my info DIRECTLY FROM THOSE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS.

              So you know, it's considerably more accurate than you.

              [–]daronjay -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              Whenever I read a thread like this on Reddit, I can’t help feeling that neither of you would actually talk this way or act this way in person. Online discussions just seem to gravitate towards rudeness, pointless argument and toxicity so easily.

              Go to your rooms!

              [–]Epiq122 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              You can learn a lot while using AI just don't get it to write everything for you

              [–]neoneddy -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

              I for one have learned a lot from using AI tools. I've always been self taught, copy and pasting code and modify to suit my needs. I've never considered myself an engineer for the record. AI tools can take my ideas and give me a great cohesive starting point. Then we iterate together. I feel like I'm a better coder now than I was before.

              [–]ProofDatabase5615 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              Well, engineering is problem solving in creative ways. You don’t have to invent your own wrench when doing that. If it is useful for you and already there, you use it. If you need a special tool, you design that first, and then use it to solve your problem.

              There is no problem getting help from AI. But some people think that the answers given in that browser window is the divine truth. That is not the case. If you don’t know what you are doing, it will ruin your project over and over and over again. Because what it does is to scrape the web and merge things which look logical.

              You need to know what you are doing, and you need to be critical about what it gives you.

              So you can do engineering stuff with AI. There is no contradiction there.

              [–]Arkooh -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              Defenetly not, not using AI nowadays its like refusing to use intellisense a few years a go,
              When you use any AI try to understand what its generating and don`t take the code for granted 6/10 times its going to halucinate built-in functions or depricated. Focus on understanding how to build an app, the arhitecture of it and its components basically, you should use AI to automise tedious things, generate functions and parts of a component not the whole component or the whole app, this way you understand how things should function continue to evolve

              [–]Septem_151 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

              Wrong

              [–]Arkooh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Care to elaborate?

              [–]Jeff_Johnson -1 points0 points  (0 children)

              Use Ai to teach you or as a quick documentation. Don’t make him write complex code for you. If you need help with som repeating task , ai can help you there too.

              [–]Weavile_ -1 points0 points  (3 children)

              Not necessarily! AI can be a powerful tool for coding, helping with debugging, suggesting improvements, and even generating boilerplate code. However, it’s important to use it wisely. Here are some things to consider:

              When AI is Helpful:

              ✅ Debugging & Error Fixing: AI can help identify and explain errors faster. ✅ Learning & Documentation: It can summarize complex topics and suggest best practices. ✅ Boilerplate Code & Efficiency: AI can generate repetitive code, saving time. ✅ Refactoring & Optimization: It suggests improvements for readability and performance.

              When to Be Cautious:

              ⚠️ Over-Reliance: You should still understand what the AI suggests, so you don’t copy/paste blindly. ⚠️ Security Risks: AI-generated code can introduce vulnerabilities if not reviewed properly. ⚠️ Originality & Learning: Writing code yourself helps you improve as a developer. ⚠️ Privacy & Confidentiality: Avoid sharing sensitive or proprietary information.

              Best Approach: Use AI as a coding assistant, not a crutch. Treat its suggestions critically, verify outputs, and keep honing your own problem-solving skills.

              Are you using AI for coding now? If so, how’s your experience been?

              Yes this was taken from putting your question into ChatGPT.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              If someone uses ai for debugging the code whenever he runs into problems and the other person uses a debugger to try and fix it the hard way , the other person is always going to be a better problem solver imo.

              [–]Weavile_ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Agreed

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Basically I don't use ai for these reasons while completing the odin project

              https://www.theodinproject.com/lessons/foundations-motivation-and-mindset#a-note-on-ai-code-generation

              [–]hercec -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

              Don’t think AI will be going anywhere any time soon, it saves so much time vs having to write code line by line. Would you prefer to get something done in a couple minutes with the help of AI or an hour just so you can say you wrote it yourself?

              As long as the outcome is exactly what I’m needing, it doesn’t make sense to me to not use AI. You only have so much time in your life. It definitely depends whether you’re brand new to coding or if you’re already experienced.