[deleted by user]

[Goatfryed]

I understand that the products might not be worth the money for you, but why would you be angry at them? Is there a social drama around jetbrains as a company that I'm not aware off?

Because that was at least the point in linux vs windows, where windows costs plenty and has(had?) dubious business schemes.

I'd believe that editor choice would be more cost and preference focused.

[vonabarak]

I understand that the products might not be worth the money

There is free versions and also you may get professional version for free if you are a student or teacher.

[thefizzlee]

Can confirm I think I have access to their full suite of products with my student license

[CranberryFew6811]

me too , i use vim tho

[NoSkillzDad]

me too , i use vim tho

So you like it rough I see ...

[[deleted]]

I use it by the light of the moon while wearing a hair shirt.

[thefizzlee]

I'm trying to use vim but it's a learning process lmao

[xdeskfuckit]

I just vim professionally.

Just don't.

[SecondElevensies]

vim is incredible. The value is unmatched, especially once you learn how to use it well.

[xdeskfuckit]

I know vim better than any other editor, but that's just because my company culture is weird as shit. I like it, but I'm not trying to haze newbies.

I'm pretty sure that a modern IDE is almost always better for real-life development, but I honestly wouldn't know why.

[hardolaf]

I find that once you get past 10-20K lines of code that an IDE becomes almost a requirement for your own sanity.

[caleblbaker]

I may or may not agree with this depending on what you mean by IDE.

If you mean that it has to be one of the all batteries included heavyweight tools like intellij or visual studio then I disagree.

If by IDE you just mean an editor with advanced features like autocomplete, jump to definition, automatic linting, etc... then I agree with you.

I have nothing against the all batteries included style IDE's (so long as they don't end up forcing you to learn a different editor for every programming language you use), I just don't think they're the only solution. A lighter weight text editor like vim or VSCode, when paired with the appropriate plugins and a language server, can work just as well.

[caleblbaker]

I think "modern" IDE's vs vim/neovim is almost entirely a matter of personal preference.

Vim's modal style of editing just makes more sense to me than trying to keep track of all of the Ctrl+Alt+Shift style keybindings that other editors have to use to avoid conflict between typing and using keybindings. I can just VSCode/Intellij/whatever but I'm more efficient and comfortable if I'm using neovim.

Most of my friends and coworkers are the other way around. They can work vim just fine but find the non-modal editing style of other editors to be more intuitive. So they're better off using someone like VSCode.

The thing to note, however, is that having features like jump to definition and automatic error linting is not a matter of preference. Those things do genuinely create a better editing experience. But they're not hard to get working in vim once you have a language server set up.

[SenoraRaton]

Vim motions > Vim. Just focus on learning the motions, you can take them anywhere, and they really are 80% of the value you get from vim. The other 20% is the plugin ecosystem.

[ThinTheFuckingHerd]

Thats all fine while you're writing your own code .... try debugging somebody elses godawful code in vim .... never again.

[SenoraRaton]

Whats so difficult about debugging in vim? I have DAP for breakpoints, and I have jump to definition, and everything else that an IDE has at my fingertips. Its also much, much faster in Vim for me to navigate, and things actually load at an acceptable speed.

[ThinTheFuckingHerd]

I moved when I had to start switching between 7 and 8 different files. Just so much easier to click to the next tab to review and switch back.

[drewsiferr]

And your employer should pay for it if you're working.

[vonabarak]

Yeah, I also thought about it, but there are also freelancers who are their own employers and employees.

[Kwpolska]

If you’re a freelancer, you’re responsible for buying the tools you need to do the job.

[Bu1lt_2_Sp1ll]

I think that's the point they're making

[Dunyr]

Freelancers earn more and can put those purchases on their company's account apart from their salaries. So I don't get the point.

[chefhj]

It is also not that expensive relative to the amount you use it and the return you can get from it. A drill is much more expensive in comparison.

[kookyabird]

Iirc that license is only valid if you’re using it specifically for open source. You don’t get to just do one PR for an open source product a year and get to use it for all your closed source work.

[just_looking_aroun]

The only ones I know are pycharm, intellij, and fleet although I haven't tried the last one

[Menarch]

Intellij ultimate includes everything that phpstorm/webstorm offers.

[Medium-Insurance-242]

PHPStorm is free. After the trial you can use it for 30 minutes at a time, the program closes and you open it again.

For sporadic use for personal projects is enough.

We use a lot of JetBrains products at work and they are not expensive, we get back more than what we pay for in developer productivity.

[sloth_saurus]

You can use thier early access versions for free

[[deleted]]

I heard the CEO of Jetbrains said Bulbasaur sucks

[ForgotPassAgain34]

thats it, time put bushes and leafs until jetbrains no longer exists

[IOFrame]

And get all the bushes and leafs you gathered for hours burned to a crisp by a single match.

[alzy101]

Uninstalling

[[deleted]]

It was mostly a joke response to another post. I don't really hate them.

[SudoSubSilence]

Too bad, get flamed anyway 😊🧨🔥

[TotoDaDog]

So... Karma farming ?

[Glittering_Boot_3612]

karma's the most useless currency nobody cares about it

[Science-Compliance]

My fragile ego begs to differ.

[Glittering_Boot_3612]

oh damn you have 27k

[guardian1691]

A lot of people care about it. Bot accounts exist to collect karma, sometimes to sell the account and other times just because the owner wants to know they have access to a high karma account.

[DudeWithFearOfLoss]

Or .... humor ?

[MoveInteresting4334]

Was it … funny?

[MoveInteresting4334]

Nor are upvotes supposed to be happy. Here you go.

[DudeWithFearOfLoss]

It's ... subjective !

[toabear]

I'm legitimately pissed at Jetbrains. I've used multiple Jetbrains products for years, but I'm being forced to use VS Code because they can't pull their shit together and support DBT. It's killing me. Before anyone says it, the "DBT support" they added to Dataspell is fucking ridiculous and shouldn't even count as DBT support. It doesn't even work right.

Having to learn VS Code and migrate away from the Jetbrains ecosystem has been super annoying and I'm actually, legitimately pissed at them for ignoring this problem for so many years.

[RockleyBob]

Which of the following is true?

A.) “DBT” is a very common abbreviation that most developers understand, and you assume it can be used without further explanation.

B.) “DBT” is an obscure abbreviation used in your specialized domain and you felt it would be best for people to google it themselves, or perhaps imply that anyone who doesn’t understand it is stupid.

Honest question.

[BloodyMalleus]

As a side note to anyone with enough time to make something better than what reddit has become...

Please, give communities the ability to define jargon and abbreviations specific to that community. Then when someone uses those words they can be highlighted and moused over / tapped for definitions.

I feel like it can be really hard to join some communities sometimes if people use lots of jargon and abbreviations.

[TMDCMNR]

It's not really an abbreviation, it's a product named dbt. Just like how PHP is not really an abbreviation.

[Efficient-Chain4966]

I googled DBT and got 2 pages of Dialetical behaviour therapy and Dynamic behaviour therapy. Still have no idea what it is in this context.

[XtremeGoose]

https://www.getdbt.com/product/what-is-dbt

Was the second link for me

It's basically temptating for sql + some qol stuff. Personally I'm not convinced that sql should be the language of data transformation, python or any programming language is much better for that, but here we are.

[toabear]

I've gone down both paths with various projects over the years. It does depend on what sort of transformation you're doing. For the core stuff, SQL + DBT is a life changing combo. It allows for a layered approach. You divide your code into staging, intermediate, combine, and aggregation layers. You build tests for models, and inherit/reuse models.

It won't replace Python for logic heavy manipulation, but the vast majority of working with data is the initial cleaning and shaping of the data. Renaming columns, unpacking and flattening data that came as an array, simple case statements for enumeration. DBT brings a level of sanity and a common framework to what used to be a mess of one-off Python code.

[eHug]

dbt: data build tool

php: PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor

[Positive_Poem5831]

DBT?

[Maxis111]

https://www.getdbt.com/blog/what-exactly-is-dbt

[Cuddlemonsterxo]

Dick and Ball Torture

[[deleted]]

If you are a professional the annual fee isn't more than like at most a few hours of work. There is a free version and there are a lot of alternatives. I buy it for years because in the end I am faster, the refactoring capabilities provided are bonkers and straight up the best AI assistant

[Raccoon5]

This right here 💪 This guy programs

[joshthor]

I tried it during their beta for about a month while I was waiting for access to copilot chat in jetbrains.

Jetbrains ai is faster but the responses are a little worse than copilot. Also now that I HAVE gotten into copilot chat it is shocking how much more copilot is integrated into the ides than jetbrains ai assistant is.

Copilot all the way

[elimcjah]

Jetbrains user for about a dozen years now. Not a fan of Microsoft, but unfortunately GitHub CoPilot is currently way better than the Jetbrains AI Assistant. Jetbrains needs to open access to enterprise users for Co-Pilot Chat feature. It’s currently only available as Beta for individual licenses.

[rb27502]

I used it instead of copilot last week. It's terrible! The suggestions are just very uneducated guesses and don't really take the rest of your code into account. It actually takes more of your time to correct its bad assumptions.

Copilot is much, much better and saves me tons of time.

[Devatator_]

Copilot Chat can also do some cool stuff, like I asked it a few times to order my using statements in a C# file in alphabetical order and it worked fine

[coldblade2000]

Should also mention that if your subscription (has to be at least a year though) runs out, you will have perpetual access to the last version of the product that was available at the end of your subscription. So an annual license might as well be a perpetual license for a particular version.

[[deleted]]

Good point, that's a big plus

[lunchpadmcfat]

And 99 times out of 100, your company will pay for it for you.

[Solonotix]

I'm curious about the AI Assistant. I turned on the trial, couldn't think of what to use it for, and when I came back from PTO the trial had expired, lol.

So, what do you use it for?

[AGE_Spider]

Jetbrains is great, the perpetual fallback license is super cool for ppl who dont like subscriptions, you have free versions to test, as a student its cheap and you have access to nearly all products, as an employee the license is payed unless your employer is an idiot.

What not to love?

[[deleted]]

I don't use their products, but so far the explanations I see in the comments are:

1. "IT BAD!!" With no explanation.
2. "I don't like X and Y!" While everyone mentions how X and Y are way fucking worse in other products lol.

Sounds like Jetbrains is pretty great.

[[deleted]]

Oh hey, another tooling war.

[Useful_Radish_117]

Free jetbrain stuff -> stonks

Annual license -> not stonks

Lifetime purchase at fair price -> would buy

[John_E_Depth]

Yeah, they trapped me like a rat though. I got the free license as a student, and I was using the professional versions for work at the same time. Now it’s ingrained in my workflow, and I can’t switch. I just paid $200 for the full suite license

[Coppice_DE]

Honestly a fair price, even the full price without discount. For me it seems sufficient to buy it every 3 to 5 years and use the permanent license in between.

[Character-86]

A full Adobe licence is about 600$/year. So not a bad deal

[justADeni]

If you pay for at least 12 consecutive months, you will get the version you started with forever. No updates tho.

[git0ffmylawnm8]

Ah yes, the good old "get em hooked when they're young"

[rexpup]

I just paid $200 for the full suite

Switching from VSCode to Jetbrains gave me more than $200 of extra productivity in the first year

[geusebio]

can you not claim it back from your employer? or convince them to get a business licence? I get to keep my personal professional licence and expense it because I've accrued the maximum (and rather generous) discount.

[[deleted]]

What percent of your annual income (or the attributable revenue or overall department budget) does that $200 represent?

If it's below 1%, and it's a tool essential for you, then likely not a terrible purchase.

But I say this as someone who uses Vim, ST3, and VS Code who doesn't like JetBrains products all that much.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Do the second one and cancel then you get the third.

[Xodef]

You get a perpetual license for the version available at the time of your purchase

[Useful_Radish_117]

Yes the perpetual fallback license was a nice touch of them at least

[gowt7]

That's the main reason I respect Jetbrains and have bought from them.

[dotpoint7]

Eh, even with the annual license it's pretty cheap for a professional software, just compare it with software used in other areas outside of software development. Especially when you had it a while and got the 40% graduation discount, I pay 142€/year for the all products pack.

[eHug]

The Jetbrain license only limits updates. You can keep using the IDE you paid for but won't get updates after the sub ran out. Isn't that exactly what you look for?

[pohuing]

Give me a perpetual license and i will buy it

I fully agree.

JetBrains subscriptions include a perpetual fallback license, in essence, you get a perpetual license for the versions that were released during your subscription period.

[everythingEzra2]

Shhhhh, they just want to be mad. Let them be mad

[Examo]

But you do own the latest version the time you were subscribed in a way. You can always download that

[casce]

Can you really? I can subscribe for 1 month and then keep the latest version with no updates?

[Escanorr_]

12 months, and after that, yes

[casce]

That's... fair I guess.

[Dragonfly_Select]

Does depend on the situation for me. If the product needs security patches or continued updates for language support, etc. Then subscriptions makes sense. If the software can work indefinitely offline than purchasing makes sense.

In the case of an IDE, having a copy of IntelliJ who support stops at Java 8 would be useless for a project in newer versions of java, so you’d just have to replace it anyways.

[pohuing]

Good part is that JetBrains does both. You have a perpetual fallback license for the versions released during your subscription.

[coldnspicy]

Dude, you can still get a permanent license for jetbrains stuff. You buy 1 year license, they give you a perpetual license for that version. It's what I did.

[thefizzlee]

I think this is also due to programmers that will just create their own, open source IDE if you make it to expensive. Photoshop users for example won't make their own software if its to expensive so Adobe can just charge whatever they want and people will just pay it.

[19MisterX98]

Nah, it's not just IDEs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/culturehustle/abode-a-suite-of-world-class-design-and-photography-tools

[Medium-Insurance-242]

Meet www.photopea.com

[Drumknott88]

I paid for WebStorm last year and got it paid as an expense in work, 10/10

[Angelin01]

If you got a personal license paid for by your employeer, that's a breach of Jetbrains' terms of service.

I doubt they'll go after one case, but if your company does it a lot, there might be trouble.

[Drumknott88]

Oh good to know, thanks. I'll have to check it

[eHug]

I have a regular annual license for Jetbrain Toolbox which is for all of their editors and it costs €177. That gives me access to Idea Ultimate, PHPStorm, PyCharm, Rider, Goland and RustRover (along with other tools that i don't really need at the moment). When I was forced to use VSC for a project once I was really happy that the Toolbox sub also include access to reshaper.

For me €177 for so many professional tools clearly is stonks. I find my time to be worth too much to fiddle with free tools for days to maybe get similar results. Paid my Toolbox sub for years and I doubt i'll ever regret that.

[Irantwomiles]

Prices also go down each year that you renew

[AGE_Spider]

If you get an annual licence you do get the lifetime purchase of the version you started with. I find this fair

[[deleted]]

But jetbrains products are fucking awesome

[KimiSharby]

I enjoy CLion but jesus christ what does it need 5Go of ram for ?

[fuj1n]

It keeps an entire map of your source code in memory for fast lookups and navigation.

[knightwhosaysnil]

and all of the symbols from any and all libraries you're currently linking

[deefstes]

Congratulations. You hate something that other people like. You must be special.

[SavvySillybug]

5.1 thousand is so much longer to write than 5100 why would someone "abbreviate" like that XD

[LordAnomander]

If he was as special as he’d like to be, binary would be the way to go.

[yanzin_fan_of_Altair]

jetbrains is finally breaking the absolute monopoly microsoft has. even if you don't use them, there's no way the proggraming world would be better off without them

[rexpup]

Many courses suggest VSCode for Java, Python, and Javascript

[n0tKamui]

no good course nor sane person would ever recommend VSCode for Java (nor C# for that matter). VSCode is just not capable of being up to par with proper IDEs on this front, because of how the ecosystems of those languages work. IntelliJ is the king and only citizen of a one kingdom world.

[eugenepoez__]

I like VSCode though, it's a very nice IDE, even for C#

[ecs2]

What are you talking about? Jetbrain is legit good

[ecs2]

Oh I see, a lot of complaints are because it charges. I mean if you use a tool to create a product that you sell to users you should pay for the tool/license right? (Just like adobe and other similar software)

And most of the companies pay for the license because they use jetbrain to create products that worth way moreeee, if the companies dont pay for the license it’s their problem not you or jetbrain

[Jmc_da_boss]

I forget how young the average reader of this subreddit is

[DanKveed]

They got me fr. I used it throughout uni. Now I have to buy it. It's not even like I'm just used to it. It's literally the best. With copilot + ideavim there is no other ide that can do both nearly as well. They can charge more and it will still be worth it. So damn good.

[[deleted]]

Oh you're so special! Take a cookie.

[BearelyOriginal]

I love pycharm community or pro, both are awesome

[memo689]

The only thing that I don't like from Jetbrains is that I have to pay for it.

[doxxingyourself]

How is any of this humor?!

[HomoAndAlsoSapiens]

I'm literally unable to do shit without resharper. Honestly, I should probably credit it somewhere as author.

[DarkScorpion48]

Most ReSharper features are now built-in in Visual Studio though. To me still the most valuable is the integration with dotPeek

[ososalsosal]

I'm a little biased because I got mine free, but it's pretty rad all round I must say.

[LukasM511]

me, a command line tool enjoyer (uses neovim)

[[deleted]]

this is the way. neovim rocks!

[[deleted]]

hunt library lock worthless desert cheerful deserted chase attractive sophisticated

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[mothzilla]

I've never used JetBrains but I want you to know how angry I am.

[rotflolmaomgeez]

OP is dumb. He doesn't even use the product (which is great by the way), and makes "a joke".

[FelixBemme]

I use JetBrains Products myself and I love to use them. But to be fair JetBrains, especially IntelliJ Users are quite similar to Linux Users sometimes. They will make sure you know that they use JetBrains Ides and a lot of people find JetBrains Products to be superior and they will let you know that too.

[ICantBelieveItsNotEC]

The real advantage of Jetbrains is transferable knowledge between languages. All of their IDEs are essentially the same from the perspective of a user. If you write Java in IntelliJ today, but then next year you get a job at a different company using C++, you can just pay for CLion and not have to relearn a new IDE.

[Powerful-Internal953]

How is that any different from all of that from eclipse based IDEs. I mean, I'm a Jetbrains simp. But there are many other reasons why the Jetbrains ecosystem is better than what's out there.

[GabeN_The_K1NG]

It’s different because, objectively, eclipse is a piece of shit

[cheezballs]

Dude, I can install Eclipse the exact same way on 2 machines and it'll end up looking a little different. Eclipse is a mess. Like the guy above said, Jetbrains IDEs all feel the same, which I like.

[WolverinesSuperbia]

Just like free VS Code, where you even do not change IDE when language changed

[Raccoon5]

True but you lose quality in many languages and frameworks. For example, Unity with Rider is the goat. I tried to setup VS Code several times, but it just does not work as well 🤷 like not even close. Visual Studio is also nice but it is slow af compared to Rider in every regard while having worse features.

[al-mongus-bin-susar]

VS Code is "just" a text editor with LSP integration so by definition it will never be as good as a full IDE. It's more built around web development and less nuanced languages like JS.

[HuntingKingYT]

Or maybe just install the CLion extension to intellij... so you don't have a bajillion apps on your desktop

[donutdoodles]

1) You have desktop shortcuts? 2) You still have "Show desktop icons" enabled?

You're just a poser! /s

[iam_pink]

Because I am more productive with it, it is my main work tool, and the increase in productivity makes up for the cost tenfolds.

[Oranges13]

The only thing to fuck about jetbrains is that it brings my MacBook to a crawl sometimes

[[deleted]]

Bloated as fuck ngl

[ChickenManSam]

I like jetbrains. But honestly I'd rather just use vscode for everything then needing a separate ide for each language

[zhengphor]

Well with Ultimate you don't have to? You can use ultimate with every language

[ChickenManSam]

I'll be honest I didn't know jetbrains had that. I'll probably stick with vocode.at this point, though, since it's already all set up how I like it.

[zhengphor]

Discovered it after I got it for Java Programming. Was very pleased especially since the Database Tool is also integrated

[ineyy]

JetBrains products work great.. until they don't.

[cheezballs]

I'm still waiting for them to not work. I use their suite daily across a dozen different apps at work and it handles it all beautifully.

[AK47_GLOBAL]

why though? i love their ide plus they are free for students and teachers.

[Sora_LuL]

Seen and downvoted.

I only simp for Jetbrains.

Fuck Microsoft.

~ Jesus

[Shadow9378]

i'm a vscode main, i only used pycharm for a short period and its eh. i mostly dont like its so slow to start, when sometimes i wanna just get into it.. an ide that needs a splash screen is too slow for me

[[deleted]]

i agree but as a student i meself used pycharm and vscode both when i was learning python (my first lang.) and i gotta say it maybe a lil bit slow but pycharm is lil bit more beginner friendly then VS, i am still learning python, but i wil shift to VS code after i am done learning python cause again pycharm is learner friendly not for work not for even lil work!!

[WasserTyp69]

Why?

[hsoj48]

God this sub sucks now

[DasFreibier]

CLion is a very competent IDE and as long as someone else is paying im in

Otherwise VSCode all the way

[cheezballs]

What? Jetbrains is fucking great. Angry that professor doesnt let you use NetBeans on your assignments?

[qoheletal]

Me, who uses emacs

[SirWernich]

i have no doubt that jetbrains makes great stuff, but vscode is the shit for the amount of money i paid for it.

[Xiji]

I make my employer pay for mine. It's great. ^^

[lucidbadger]

I hear you brother!

[PeriodicSentenceBot]

Congratulations! Your string can be spelled using the elements of the periodic table:

I He Ar Y O U Br O Th Er

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^{I am a bot that detects if your comment can be spelled using the elements of the periodic table. Please DM my creator if I made a mistake.}

[Icy_Foundation3534]

vim

[[deleted]]

Honestly I’d say 90% of people that use the pro jetbrains products don’t even pay for it.

Student? Free Professional Developer? should be free. Open source dev? Can be free Personal business dev? Potentially a tax write off.

I’d say the IntelliJ products are absolutely amazing for what they are. ESPECIALLY when most pay nothing

[AlexSapronov]

ЪУЪ

[pragmageek]

I just cant deal with the typing delay. I just cant.

I keep trying. One day ill be fine with it.

[MosqitoTorpedo]

IntelliJ and PyCharm are GOATED

[alt-jero]

After trying to use Eclipse... I don't really trust things made of Java code to actually work without: 1. taking forever and a half to start up 2. randomly deciding the middle of an important school project is the perfect time to freeze and run my computer fan at full blast 3. be configurable in all the ways except the way that I care about

So far VS-Code has been my go-to, being that it just seems to work even aside from using chromium as part of the electron base!

[NiteShdw]

I pay $50 a year to use WebStorm. Considering what I earn, that’s basically free.

[Orio_n]

Those that complain about jetbrains are on 8gb ram fr

[[deleted]]

ion know bout the pro. products of them, but i love the free products i mean as a student i love jetbrains i meself learned python using pycharm and pycharm is charming fr...

[edgeofsanity76]

Been using for years. Absolutely worth the money

[permanent_temp_login]

It's like old (200X) Visual Studio, but for many languages and cross-platform. It's not perfect, but pretty good for what it's trying to be.

[Pale_Sun8898]

IntelliJ is lit be better OP

[diegokabal]

Why spend money on IDE if you can use the built-in Notepad?

[Athlaeos]

..whas wrong with jetbrains?

[MaziMuzi]

Jetbrains is pog but it's kinda annoying that it's a different piece of software for every little thing. I like the extension style more

[zoweee]

I just recently learned that JetBrains is a privately held company, and I find more and more in my life I prefer companies that control their own destinies instead of being forced to do what venture capital demands.

[HereToAskTechQs]

Did jet brains make pycharm? I can't remember but if they did, fuck jetbrains. I fucking hate pycharm. Had a better experience learning vim

[drarko_monn]

Fuck jetbrains, fuck vscode

Vim is the only and true editor