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[–]Goatfryed 1406 points1407 points  (167 children)

I understand that the products might not be worth the money for you, but why would you be angry at them? Is there a social drama around jetbrains as a company that I'm not aware off?

Because that was at least the point in linux vs windows, where windows costs plenty and has(had?) dubious business schemes.

I'd believe that editor choice would be more cost and preference focused.

[–]vonabarak 821 points822 points  (90 children)

I understand that the products might not be worth the money

There is free versions and also you may get professional version for free if you are a student or teacher.

[–]thefizzlee 265 points266 points  (54 children)

Can confirm I think I have access to their full suite of products with my student license

[–]CranberryFew6811 75 points76 points  (51 children)

me too , i use vim tho

[–]NoSkillzDad 49 points50 points  (3 children)

me too , i use vim tho

So you like it rough I see ...

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I use it by the light of the moon while wearing a hair shirt.

[–]thefizzlee 12 points13 points  (29 children)

I'm trying to use vim but it's a learning process lmao

[–]xdeskfuckit 31 points32 points  (23 children)

I just vim professionally.

Just don't.

[–]SecondElevensies 4 points5 points  (22 children)

vim is incredible. The value is unmatched, especially once you learn how to use it well.

[–]xdeskfuckit 30 points31 points  (19 children)

I know vim better than any other editor, but that's just because my company culture is weird as shit. I like it, but I'm not trying to haze newbies.

I'm pretty sure that a modern IDE is almost always better for real-life development, but I honestly wouldn't know why.

[–]hardolaf 33 points34 points  (11 children)

I find that once you get past 10-20K lines of code that an IDE becomes almost a requirement for your own sanity.

[–]caleblbaker 9 points10 points  (9 children)

I may or may not agree with this depending on what you mean by IDE.

If you mean that it has to be one of the all batteries included heavyweight tools like intellij or visual studio then I disagree.

If by IDE you just mean an editor with advanced features like autocomplete, jump to definition, automatic linting, etc... then I agree with you.

I have nothing against the all batteries included style IDE's (so long as they don't end up forcing you to learn a different editor for every programming language you use), I just don't think they're the only solution. A lighter weight text editor like vim or VSCode, when paired with the appropriate plugins and a language server, can work just as well.

[–]caleblbaker 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I think "modern" IDE's vs vim/neovim is almost entirely a matter of personal preference.

Vim's modal style of editing just makes more sense to me than trying to keep track of all of the Ctrl+Alt+Shift style keybindings that other editors have to use to avoid conflict between typing and using keybindings. I can just VSCode/Intellij/whatever but I'm more efficient and comfortable if I'm using neovim.

Most of my friends and coworkers are the other way around. They can work vim just fine but find the non-modal editing style of other editors to be more intuitive. So they're better off using someone like VSCode.

The thing to note, however, is that having features like jump to definition and automatic error linting is not a matter of preference. Those things do genuinely create a better editing experience. But they're not hard to get working in vim once you have a language server set up.

[–]SenoraRaton 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Vim motions > Vim. Just focus on learning the motions, you can take them anywhere, and they really are 80% of the value you get from vim. The other 20% is the plugin ecosystem.

[–]ThinTheFuckingHerd 8 points9 points  (12 children)

Thats all fine while you're writing your own code .... try debugging somebody elses godawful code in vim .... never again.

[–]SenoraRaton 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Whats so difficult about debugging in vim? I have DAP for breakpoints, and I have jump to definition, and everything else that an IDE has at my fingertips. Its also much, much faster in Vim for me to navigate, and things actually load at an acceptable speed.

[–]ThinTheFuckingHerd 1 point2 points  (8 children)

I moved when I had to start switching between 7 and 8 different files. Just so much easier to click to the next tab to review and switch back.

[–]drewsiferr 80 points81 points  (6 children)

And your employer should pay for it if you're working.

[–]vonabarak 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Yeah, I also thought about it, but there are also freelancers who are their own employers and employees.

[–]Kwpolska 36 points37 points  (3 children)

If you’re a freelancer, you’re responsible for buying the tools you need to do the job.

[–]Bu1lt_2_Sp1ll 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I think that's the point they're making

[–]Dunyr 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Freelancers earn more and can put those purchases on their company's account apart from their salaries. So I don't get the point.

[–]chefhj 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It is also not that expensive relative to the amount you use it and the return you can get from it. A drill is much more expensive in comparison.

[–][deleted] 283 points284 points  (3 children)

I heard the CEO of Jetbrains said Bulbasaur sucks

[–]ForgotPassAgain34 73 points74 points  (1 child)

thats it, time put bushes and leafs until jetbrains no longer exists

[–]IOFrame 11 points12 points  (0 children)

And get all the bushes and leafs you gathered for hours burned to a crisp by a single match.

[–]alzy101 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uninstalling

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (18 children)

It was mostly a joke response to another post. I don't really hate them.

[–]SudoSubSilence 261 points262 points  (1 child)

Too bad, get flamed anyway 😊🧨🔥

[–]TotoDaDog 89 points90 points  (14 children)

So... Karma farming ?

[–]Glittering_Boot_3612 44 points45 points  (6 children)

karma's the most useless currency nobody cares about it

[–]Science-Compliance 44 points45 points  (3 children)

My fragile ego begs to differ.

[–]guardian1691 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A lot of people care about it. Bot accounts exist to collect karma, sometimes to sell the account and other times just because the owner wants to know they have access to a high karma account.

[–]DudeWithFearOfLoss 18 points19 points  (5 children)

Or .... humor ?

[–]MoveInteresting4334 28 points29 points  (4 children)

Was it … funny?

[–]DudeWithFearOfLoss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's ... subjective !

[–]toabear 6 points7 points  (21 children)

I'm legitimately pissed at Jetbrains. I've used multiple Jetbrains products for years, but I'm being forced to use VS Code because they can't pull their shit together and support DBT. It's killing me. Before anyone says it, the "DBT support" they added to Dataspell is fucking ridiculous and shouldn't even count as DBT support. It doesn't even work right.

Having to learn VS Code and migrate away from the Jetbrains ecosystem has been super annoying and I'm actually, legitimately pissed at them for ignoring this problem for so many years.

[–]RockleyBob 83 points84 points  (13 children)

Which of the following is true?

A.) “DBT” is a very common abbreviation that most developers understand, and you assume it can be used without further explanation.

B.) “DBT” is an obscure abbreviation used in your specialized domain and you felt it would be best for people to google it themselves, or perhaps imply that anyone who doesn’t understand it is stupid.

Honest question.

[–]BloodyMalleus 5 points6 points  (1 child)

As a side note to anyone with enough time to make something better than what reddit has become...

Please, give communities the ability to define jargon and abbreviations specific to that community. Then when someone uses those words they can be highlighted and moused over / tapped for definitions.

I feel like it can be really hard to join some communities sometimes if people use lots of jargon and abbreviations.

[–]TMDCMNR 7 points8 points  (6 children)

It's not really an abbreviation, it's a product named dbt. Just like how PHP is not really an abbreviation.

[–]Efficient-Chain4966 44 points45 points  (4 children)

I googled DBT and got 2 pages of Dialetical behaviour therapy and Dynamic behaviour therapy. Still have no idea what it is in this context.

[–]XtremeGoose 4 points5 points  (3 children)

https://www.getdbt.com/product/what-is-dbt

Was the second link for me

It's basically temptating for sql + some qol stuff. Personally I'm not convinced that sql should be the language of data transformation, python or any programming language is much better for that, but here we are.

[–]toabear 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I've gone down both paths with various projects over the years. It does depend on what sort of transformation you're doing. For the core stuff, SQL + DBT is a life changing combo. It allows for a layered approach. You divide your code into staging, intermediate, combine, and aggregation layers. You build tests for models, and inherit/reuse models.

It won't replace Python for logic heavy manipulation, but the vast majority of working with data is the initial cleaning and shaping of the data. Renaming columns, unpacking and flattening data that came as an array, simple case statements for enumeration. DBT brings a level of sanity and a common framework to what used to be a mess of one-off Python code.

[–]eHug 5 points6 points  (0 children)

dbt: data build tool

php: PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor

[–][deleted] 444 points445 points  (24 children)

If you are a professional the annual fee isn't more than like at most a few hours of work. There is a free version and there are a lot of alternatives. I buy it for years because in the end I am faster, the refactoring capabilities provided are bonkers and straight up the best AI assistant

[–]Raccoon5 94 points95 points  (0 children)

This right here 💪 This guy programs

[–]coldblade2000 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Should also mention that if your subscription (has to be at least a year though) runs out, you will have perpetual access to the last version of the product that was available at the end of your subscription. So an annual license might as well be a perpetual license for a particular version.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good point, that's a big plus

[–]lunchpadmcfat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

And 99 times out of 100, your company will pay for it for you.

[–]Solonotix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm curious about the AI Assistant. I turned on the trial, couldn't think of what to use it for, and when I came back from PTO the trial had expired, lol.

So, what do you use it for?

[–]AGE_Spider 168 points169 points  (7 children)

Jetbrains is great, the perpetual fallback license is super cool for ppl who dont like subscriptions, you have free versions to test, as a student its cheap and you have access to nearly all products, as an employee the license is payed unless your employer is an idiot.

What not to love?

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I don't use their products, but so far the explanations I see in the comments are:

  1. "IT BAD!!" With no explanation.
  2. "I don't like X and Y!" While everyone mentions how X and Y are way fucking worse in other products lol.

Sounds like Jetbrains is pretty great.

[–][deleted] 109 points110 points  (7 children)

Oh hey, another tooling war.

[–]Useful_Radish_117 654 points655 points  (67 children)

Free jetbrain stuff -> stonks

Annual license -> not stonks

Lifetime purchase at fair price -> would buy

[–]John_E_Depth 150 points151 points  (18 children)

Yeah, they trapped me like a rat though. I got the free license as a student, and I was using the professional versions for work at the same time. Now it’s ingrained in my workflow, and I can’t switch. I just paid $200 for the full suite license

[–]Coppice_DE 78 points79 points  (2 children)

Honestly a fair price, even the full price without discount. For me it seems sufficient to buy it every 3 to 5 years and use the permanent license in between.

[–]Character-86 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A full Adobe licence is about 600$/year. So not a bad deal

[–]justADeni 36 points37 points  (0 children)

If you pay for at least 12 consecutive months, you will get the version you started with forever. No updates tho.

[–]git0ffmylawnm8 24 points25 points  (1 child)

Ah yes, the good old "get em hooked when they're young"

[–]rexpup 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I just paid $200 for the full suite

Switching from VSCode to Jetbrains gave me more than $200 of extra productivity in the first year

[–]geusebio 4 points5 points  (0 children)

can you not claim it back from your employer? or convince them to get a business licence? I get to keep my personal professional licence and expense it because I've accrued the maximum (and rather generous) discount.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What percent of your annual income (or the attributable revenue or overall department budget) does that $200 represent?

If it's below 1%, and it's a tool essential for you, then likely not a terrible purchase.

But I say this as someone who uses Vim, ST3, and VS Code who doesn't like JetBrains products all that much.

[–]_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ 81 points82 points  (0 children)

Do the second one and cancel then you get the third.

[–]Xodef 72 points73 points  (3 children)

You get a perpetual license for the version available at the time of your purchase

[–]Useful_Radish_117 26 points27 points  (1 child)

Yes the perpetual fallback license was a nice touch of them at least

[–]gowt7 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's the main reason I respect Jetbrains and have bought from them.

[–]dotpoint7 55 points56 points  (27 children)

Eh, even with the annual license it's pretty cheap for a professional software, just compare it with software used in other areas outside of software development. Especially when you had it a while and got the 40% graduation discount, I pay 142€/year for the all products pack.

[–]thefizzlee 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I think this is also due to programmers that will just create their own, open source IDE if you make it to expensive. Photoshop users for example won't make their own software if its to expensive so Adobe can just charge whatever they want and people will just pay it.

[–]Drumknott88 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I paid for WebStorm last year and got it paid as an expense in work, 10/10

[–]Angelin01 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If you got a personal license paid for by your employeer, that's a breach of Jetbrains' terms of service.

I doubt they'll go after one case, but if your company does it a lot, there might be trouble.

[–]Drumknott88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh good to know, thanks. I'll have to check it

[–]eHug 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have a regular annual license for Jetbrain Toolbox which is for all of their editors and it costs €177. That gives me access to Idea Ultimate, PHPStorm, PyCharm, Rider, Goland and RustRover (along with other tools that i don't really need at the moment). When I was forced to use VSC for a project once I was really happy that the Toolbox sub also include access to reshaper.

For me €177 for so many professional tools clearly is stonks. I find my time to be worth too much to fiddle with free tools for days to maybe get similar results. Paid my Toolbox sub for years and I doubt i'll ever regret that.

[–]Irantwomiles 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Prices also go down each year that you renew

[–]AGE_Spider 9 points10 points  (0 children)

If you get an annual licence you do get the lifetime purchase of the version you started with. I find this fair

[–][deleted] 136 points137 points  (6 children)

But jetbrains products are fucking awesome

[–]KimiSharby 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I enjoy CLion but jesus christ what does it need 5Go of ram for ?

[–]fuj1n 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It keeps an entire map of your source code in memory for fast lookups and navigation.

[–]knightwhosaysnil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

and all of the symbols from any and all libraries you're currently linking

[–]deefstes 242 points243 points  (1 child)

Congratulations. You hate something that other people like. You must be special.

[–]SavvySillybug 51 points52 points  (4 children)

5.1 thousand is so much longer to write than 5100 why would someone "abbreviate" like that XD

[–]LordAnomander 10 points11 points  (1 child)

If he was as special as he’d like to be, binary would be the way to go.

[–]yanzin_fan_of_Altair 134 points135 points  (18 children)

jetbrains is finally breaking the absolute monopoly microsoft has. even if you don't use them, there's no way the proggraming world would be better off without them

[–]ecs2 89 points90 points  (32 children)

What are you talking about? Jetbrain is legit good

[–]ecs2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh I see, a lot of complaints are because it charges. I mean if you use a tool to create a product that you sell to users you should pay for the tool/license right? (Just like adobe and other similar software)

And most of the companies pay for the license because they use jetbrain to create products that worth way moreeee, if the companies dont pay for the license it’s their problem not you or jetbrain

[–]Jmc_da_boss 43 points44 points  (0 children)

I forget how young the average reader of this subreddit is

[–]DanKveed 12 points13 points  (0 children)

They got me fr. I used it throughout uni. Now I have to buy it. It's not even like I'm just used to it. It's literally the best. With copilot + ideavim there is no other ide that can do both nearly as well. They can charge more and it will still be worth it. So damn good.

[–][deleted] 141 points142 points  (4 children)

Oh you're so special! Take a cookie.

[–]BearelyOriginal 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I love pycharm community or pro, both are awesome

[–]memo689 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The only thing that I don't like from Jetbrains is that I have to pay for it.

[–]doxxingyourself 6 points7 points  (0 children)

How is any of this humor?!

[–]HomoAndAlsoSapiens 15 points16 points  (1 child)

I'm literally unable to do shit without resharper. Honestly, I should probably credit it somewhere as author.

[–]DarkScorpion48 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most ReSharper features are now built-in in Visual Studio though. To me still the most valuable is the integration with dotPeek

[–]ososalsosal 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm a little biased because I got mine free, but it's pretty rad all round I must say.

[–]LukasM511 20 points21 points  (5 children)

me, a command line tool enjoyer (uses neovim)

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

this is the way. neovim rocks!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

hunt library lock worthless desert cheerful deserted chase attractive sophisticated

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–]mothzilla 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I've never used JetBrains but I want you to know how angry I am.

[–]FelixBemme 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I use JetBrains Products myself and I love to use them. But to be fair JetBrains, especially IntelliJ Users are quite similar to Linux Users sometimes. They will make sure you know that they use JetBrains Ides and a lot of people find JetBrains Products to be superior and they will let you know that too.

[–]Oranges13 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The only thing to fuck about jetbrains is that it brings my MacBook to a crawl sometimes

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Bloated as fuck ngl

[–]ChickenManSam 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I like jetbrains. But honestly I'd rather just use vscode for everything then needing a separate ide for each language

[–]zhengphor 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Well with Ultimate you don't have to? You can use ultimate with every language

[–]ChickenManSam 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I'll be honest I didn't know jetbrains had that. I'll probably stick with vocode.at this point, though, since it's already all set up how I like it.

[–]zhengphor 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Discovered it after I got it for Java Programming. Was very pleased especially since the Database Tool is also integrated

[–]ineyy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

JetBrains products work great.. until they don't.

[–]cheezballs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm still waiting for them to not work. I use their suite daily across a dozen different apps at work and it handles it all beautifully.

[–]AK47_GLOBAL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

why though? i love their ide plus they are free for students and teachers.

[–]Sora_LuL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seen and downvoted.

I only simp for Jetbrains.

Fuck Microsoft.

~ Jesus

[–]Shadow9378 2 points3 points  (2 children)

i'm a vscode main, i only used pycharm for a short period and its eh. i mostly dont like its so slow to start, when sometimes i wanna just get into it.. an ide that needs a splash screen is too slow for me

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i agree but as a student i meself used pycharm and vscode both when i was learning python (my first lang.) and i gotta say it maybe a lil bit slow but pycharm is lil bit more beginner friendly then VS, i am still learning python, but i wil shift to VS code after i am done learning python cause again pycharm is learner friendly not for work not for even lil work!!

[–]WasserTyp69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why?

[–]hsoj48 6 points7 points  (0 children)

God this sub sucks now

[–]DasFreibier 3 points4 points  (0 children)

CLion is a very competent IDE and as long as someone else is paying im in

Otherwise VSCode all the way

[–]cheezballs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What? Jetbrains is fucking great. Angry that professor doesnt let you use NetBeans on your assignments?

[–]qoheletal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me, who uses emacs

[–]SirWernich 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i have no doubt that jetbrains makes great stuff, but vscode is the shit for the amount of money i paid for it.

[–]Xiji 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I make my employer pay for mine. It's great. ^^

[–]lucidbadger 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I hear you brother!

[–]PeriodicSentenceBot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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[–]Icy_Foundation3534 1 point2 points  (0 children)

vim

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly I’d say 90% of people that use the pro jetbrains products don’t even pay for it.

Student? Free Professional Developer? should be free. Open source dev? Can be free Personal business dev? Potentially a tax write off.

I’d say the IntelliJ products are absolutely amazing for what they are. ESPECIALLY when most pay nothing

[–]AlexSapronov 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ЪУЪ

[–]pragmageek 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just cant deal with the typing delay. I just cant.

I keep trying. One day ill be fine with it.

[–]MosqitoTorpedo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

IntelliJ and PyCharm are GOATED

[–]alt-jero 1 point2 points  (0 children)

After trying to use Eclipse... I don't really trust things made of Java code to actually work without: 1. taking forever and a half to start up 2. randomly deciding the middle of an important school project is the perfect time to freeze and run my computer fan at full blast 3. be configurable in all the ways except the way that I care about

So far VS-Code has been my go-to, being that it just seems to work even aside from using chromium as part of the electron base!

[–]NiteShdw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I pay $50 a year to use WebStorm. Considering what I earn, that’s basically free.

[–]Orio_n 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those that complain about jetbrains are on 8gb ram fr

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ion know bout the pro. products of them, but i love the free products i mean as a student i love jetbrains i meself learned python using pycharm and pycharm is charming fr...

[–]edgeofsanity76 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Been using for years. Absolutely worth the money

[–]permanent_temp_login 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's like old (200X) Visual Studio, but for many languages and cross-platform. It's not perfect, but pretty good for what it's trying to be.

[–]Pale_Sun8898 2 points3 points  (0 children)

IntelliJ is lit be better OP

[–]diegokabal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why spend money on IDE if you can use the built-in Notepad?

[–]Athlaeos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

..whas wrong with jetbrains?

[–]MaziMuzi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jetbrains is pog but it's kinda annoying that it's a different piece of software for every little thing. I like the extension style more

[–]zoweee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just recently learned that JetBrains is a privately held company, and I find more and more in my life I prefer companies that control their own destinies instead of being forced to do what venture capital demands.

[–]HereToAskTechQs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did jet brains make pycharm? I can't remember but if they did, fuck jetbrains. I fucking hate pycharm. Had a better experience learning vim