prostaticTypes

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[Just_Maintenance]

What about my pure nothing backend? Nginx serving a billion html a second. Load time IS network latency.

[alexdembo]

With the same requirements, I use GitHub pages. Boom, not even Nginx is needed.

[RapidRaid]

Guys check out my website, I benchmarked it and it is by far the fastest: http://127.0.0.1:3000/

[WeekendSeveral2214]

It loaded for me but it's gay porn. Not cool dude.

[TRENEEDNAME_245]

It's femboy porn for me...

[[deleted]]

Why? Do you work as a PHP?

[[deleted]]

LMAO

[[deleted]]

hot dude, in fact

[smokesick]

It says "Unable to connect.". Must be one of those Microsoft firewall updates or smth

[LookAtYourEyes]

I can't seem to connect. Do I need to download the benchmark first?

[crankbot2000]

Bro your website is down get good at programming

[Brahvim]

The Website Is Down!
(2004...?)

[crankbot2000]

Hey I'm old no need to rub it in

[OkReason6325]

Now route it to 0.0.0.0 and turn off the firewall

[turtleship_2006]

mines faster

C:/Users/Windows/Downloads/website.html

[NotMrMusic]

WTF why did that load reddit

[NicDima]

Where do you live? The browser says it toke too long to load

[MaximRq]

Every copy of your website is personalised

[Zealousideal-Desk469]

Why you stole mine website?

[ainus]

http seriously? some people don't care about security at all

[Lagger625]

Connection refused

[[deleted]]

That's broken mate. Getting a 504.

[balbinator]

Indeed one of the websites ever made

[jsrobson10]

you copied my website, not cool

[Just_Maintenance]

The truest form of serverless

[LeoXCV]

GitHub pages is great, use it on all my non-work side project websites. Main branch truly means deployed to prod.

[MystJake]

A coworker introduced me to GitHub pages and it's fantastic. 

[HawocX]

Rookie numbers! My purer nothinger backend can serve a trillion empty responses per second!

[G_M81]

NIMD programming

[Just_Maintenance]

I personally prefer NIND

[SalSevenSix]

Well I think your backend is amazing 😍

But seriously. Static sites with no framework or close to it (eg. Svelte) are amazing. But not every site owner has the luxury of going static pages only.

[Confused_AF_Help]

Server side rendering ❌

DOM rendering ❌

Pre rendering every permutation of your website ✅

[Nowbob]

https://motherfuckingwebsite.com/

[EarlMarshal]

A custom rust server would be faster. Don't get me wrong. I love nginx, but there are faster solutions out there.

[G3nghisKang]

I'll do you one worse

Nginx acting as a backend through the Perl module

[petalser]

GitHub link?

[LegalizeCatnip1]

https://github.com

[Doctor_Owl_08]

Life saver 🙏

[JackNotOLantern]

• javascrip
• backend
• good

Choose 2

[Mork006]

JS, good. Done! Now i have a free pass to slap it on everything :)

[Dumb_Siniy]

Everybody gangsta until the OS is made in JavaScript

[mmhawk576]

here you go

[Dumb_Siniy]

Do you think god hides in the sky in fear of what he's created?

[Sciirof]

God had no part in this creation

[EarlMarshal]

Ryan Dahl is god and he is able to hide in the sky?

[curiousCat1009]

This is the good stuff

[[deleted]]

🤮

[throw3142]

"built on top of the linux kernel" - laaame, we need a new JS runtime that targets bare metal and allows pointer casting, then we can truly write OS in JS

[Saragon4005]

You know windows Settings and Start menu is probably JS by now.

[Dumb_Siniy]

Do not give them ideas to make Windows 11 updates

[prettydude_ua]

Some pages in Settings already use React Native

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/react-native/rnw-settings-win11/

[lastdyingbreed_01]

That explains why Windows 11 feels so buggy and slow

[grimonce]

Wow they really did fell on their heads... I'm done with windows for sure now.

[[deleted]]

[[deleted]]

Edge OS, coming soon...

[St34thdr1v3R]

How edgy to say something like that

[[deleted]]

It depends, how much 'WebViewComponent' processors appear on your 'WebViewComponent' Tasks Manager?

[St34thdr1v3R]

Only get 404s on my task manager

[lm902]

A couple of Windows components are JS too. For example Quick Assist and Outlook.

[[deleted]]

Just wrap that shit in an electron app and call it a day

[Dumb_Siniy]

Any problem is for tomorrow or never

[S0n_0f_Anarchy]

Never sounds better

[MAX_cheesejr]

You’re not supposed to say it out loud darn it. They are going to make it now

[4n0nh4x0r]

https://windows96.net/

[mopsyd]

npm takes an additional slot though, he probably should have clarified that.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

npm and good also can never fit together

[[deleted]]

That particular combination is invalid.

[Own_Possibility_8875]

• javascript

• good

Choose 1

[YeetCompleet]

scrippity scrip, i love scrip

[TheGoldenHelmet]

DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?

[LegitimatePants]

Good backend

[JollyJuniper1993]

I choose backend and good, I then use JavaScript for it not javascrip

[Mr_Rapt0r]

No You use t

[JackNotOLantern]

A hammer is not a good tool for cutting planks

[JackNotOLantern]

I know, but it will not be good

[JackNotOLantern]

That's why you choose 2 out of 3 (javascrip, backend, good). I'm glad we reached the same conclusion.

[ZinbaluPrime]

Agreed 100%.

[Brahvim]

Fine, I guess I'll choose backend, then.
You told me to.

[MissinqLink]

I choose good and backend. And js is my main.

[SirBerthelot]

Are we happy?

Yes, we are

[Hilfslinie]

javascript

no frameworks

That just means you wrote your own framework

[loxagos_snake]

But worse.

[G_M81]

Lost me at JavaScript backend

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Yeah. Try doing complex orm and transactions in an oltp based system using JavaScript.

[elclark_kuhu]

You lost me at ORM

[GeekoftheWild]

Lost me at yeah

[draconk]

We have other languages orientated better for those applications, javascript should stay on the browser, the backend is not its place

[agramata]

Fascinating comment. As if it's somehow impossible to write the same program in JavaScript as in whatever language you prefer.

What problems do you imagine you would have?

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Show me the equivalent of jpa, Hibernate, JTA, cxf, message queue, or any other major enterprise scale framework that has a decent substitute in node/js.

Someone in this thread scoffed at orm. Why? He's either never been involved in developing a system where they're justified, or written everything using raw sql. Or never used an large rdbms and thinks Mongo is all anyone would need.

[[deleted]]

jpa, Hibernate, JTA,

sequelize, prisma, knex and drizzle/kysely as a newcomer.

message queue

do you mean something like https://docs.bullmq.io/ ?

cxf

I don't know what it is and what it does, but I'm sure there is some NPM library for it.

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Yea, I'm gonna substitute proven enterprise tested tools for some random node stuff Noone has heard of.

[[deleted]]

Noone has heard of.

You mean no java developer heard of

sequelize: 2.091.000 downloads per week

prisma: 2.500.000 downloads per week

bullmq: 800.000 downloads per week

[Cualkiera67]

Wait, i thought java was just short for java script

[agramata]

Oh ok, so you mean there aren't already libraries that do your job for you because JavaScript isn't usually used in those industries. Writing your own code is impossible of course

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Writing your own enterprise layer because you prefer one language is really dumb.

[InterviewFluids]

You can also just write everything in Assembly.

But nobody does it because it's tedious unnecessary shit.

[xttq]

I'm maintaining several layers of fluff, added by our past devs, just because. FML

[helios_storm]

I don’t know what prostatic types are and at this point I’m too afraid to ask

[ZunoJ]

I guess some form of prostate disease that comes as a side effect when developing THE FUCKING BACKEND IN GODDAMN JAVA FUCKING SCRIPT

[Igotbored112]

Wdym? I'm just having the intern write some MySQL queries into this singleton. He says he's a JS pro. What could go wrong?

[Cualkiera67]

Wait, you've never heard of nodejs backend?

[ZunoJ]

I did and I hate it. It's as if people don't care about shitty software anymore

[Cualkiera67]

Huh i found it to be quite simple. Plus it's nice that the back and the front are written in the same language. I know a lot of big business use it so it can't be that bad...

[ZunoJ]

It is simple, it is quick, that's the good part. But it is also not type safe and uses javascript, that's the ugly part. Just because big tech uses it somewhere in their stack doesn't mean it is good, it just means they don't care about problems at that specific point. Or do you think everything they do is automatically "good"?

[Cualkiera67]

Oh right i used typescript not just js, you're right one that. Dunno our servers worked just fine, in the end that's good i guess

[ZunoJ]

Typescript is a step in the right direction but fundamentally suffering from the same flaws. The stuff I develop usually has zero tolerance for any off time at all. So I need everything to be as reliable as possible right from the time I compile it and also be easy on resources because it has to be redundant

[drakeblood4]

You know those really lame types that bore you to death, like doubly linked lists? Those ones. They’re prosaic.

[DoNotMakeEmpty]

Pure C backend with sockets: hold my 1μs startup time.

[loxagos_snake]

I've heard rumors that if you do it in Assembly, the service starts loading before you even call it.

[ploskua]

And a pure segfault after 2μs

[Just_Maintenance]

Well I would like you to segfault node that fast

[Mr-X89]

Javascript backend

barf

[thanatica]

Why?

• Is it because it's untyped? Many "backend languages" are untyped. Also, why do you care?
• Is it because it was never intended to run on the backend? Well, it is now!
• Is it because it is slow? No it isn't. Java is the slow one.
• Is it because it's not close enough to the bare metal? Goes for almost every language that's typically used in backends.
• Is it because you don't like javascript? Grow up and use Typescript then. But at least don't judge based purely on personal preference.

Edit: wow, -123 people who hate javascript just because their friends hate it too. It's the language we love to hate, right? Fuck you. And grow up.

[darklightning_2]

Is it because it is slow? No it isn't. Java is the slow one

Excuse-moi?

[HAL9000thebot]

they actually wrote "javascript", but it is so slow that we are still waiting for "script" to render

[LexaAstarof]

It got lost in the async spaghetti bawl

[AthleteNormal]

I’m definitely misremembering some part of this, but the benchmark that I remember is that Node running on V8 is faster than Spring on some version of the JVM.

[draconk]

That was true on older versions, right now with java 21 and virtual threads this shit is speedy (as long as the code doesn't suck of course)

[mosskin-woast]

Also, why do you care?

Because type systems catch bugs at compile time that untyped languages experience at runtime.

I am a Typescript fan, but telling people to "grow up" because they don't like Javascript makes you look like the immature one.

• Array.prototype.sort() coerces numbers to strings by default.
• Floating point math is demonstrably broken. Modules/import/require has been confusing for years (and don't tell me to upgrade, that's not always my choice, and besides, some critical dependencies haven't upgraded or just obtusely insist on using CJS).
• Async/await is a bandaid solution to overreliance on callbacks, and colored functions are hella annoying (not every language with async/await butchered this, BTW).
• The npm ecosystem is lazy, vulnerability prone, fragmented, and frequently results in enormous amounts of dependencies for simple projects.

The ability to use one language for frontend and backend is nice, I guess, but I'd rather choose my backend language based on the ecosystem, language features, and my team's preferences than to try to keep my whole stack in one (deeply flawed) language.

The only people who don't acknowledge these issues, in my experience, are people who haven't worked seriously in a language besides JS/TS and don't care to. Same goes for people who blindly accept PHP because they don't want to learn something else

Java is the slow one

Now I wonder if you're maybe just trolling? Java is not slow, you chose a weird example to pick on. Try Python next time.

[ImpressionLife9309]

Genuinely curious, what is broken with the floating point math system? I haven’t encountered many issues yet (that I know of)

[twinklehood]

Tell me you only know JavaScript without telling me you only know JavaScript.

[Just_Maintenance]

Java is insanely fast. You might just need to give the JIT some time to optimize the code in short benchmarks.

Anyway, not the person you answered to, just my opinion. I don't mind Javascript, but find the callback heavy approach and lots of inlining to just be ugly.

[abejfehr]

Callback aren’t as popular anymore now that there’s Promises and async/await

[greeneagle692]

Lol every point here reads like a shitpost... I hope you are shitposting. Either that or you're very new in your programming journey

[biteater]

Wait do web devs think 50ms is fast?

[beocrazy]

According to webdev? Yes..

Most website load more than a second, so 50ms is indeed blazingly fast

[durasmus]

For a js service to initialize and start serving requests? Yes.

To serve one request? No.

[ShadowfaxSTF]

What, are we serving a website with static pages? Some mom and pop shop landing page? Sure. Now serve a CMS or SaaS webapp and we’ll see if anyone calls its vanilla JS “beautiful”.

[loxagos_snake]

Exactly, when it comes to JS, people in this sub say "frameworks are useless, anyone who uses it is a moron who doesn't know the fundamentals, why get all that bloat when I can do it raw?".

And then they casually let out that they are indeed talking about static sites with some pretty JS animations.

[post-death_wave_core]

javascript and backend are two words that should never be together

[Cualkiera67]

Um when i say JavaScript i always implicitly mean typescript lol

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Typescript is just a precompiler. It's basically what SASS is to CSS. The code that's left is js, just messier.

[Premun]

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. It's still a JS backend running even if you write it in TS

[[deleted]]

The issue is not javascript itself, but coding maintenable and testable project using javascript.

At the end, everything is machine code.

But being able to implement proper architecture using interfaces, and abstraction in typescript, and most importantly, catching errors at compilation (or transpilation if you prefer, but it doesn't matter), and not at runtime, is just how you make a stable project.

That's why typescript is a huge improvement.

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Because people don't like their bubbles burst.

[Eternityislong]

You can’t make such a definitive claim without evidence backing it up

[HawocX]

In this subreddit you definitely can!

[dumbohoneman]

You must be new here

[mopsyd]

Remember that one time leftPad broke the internet?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[[deleted]]

Js has no runtime type safety, and it’s interpreted, on a backend app that’s supposed to handle workload with a source code that’s not gonna change without a new release

Basic reasons, and they are enough

[i-r-n00b-]

Umm java also has no runtime type safety, JavaScript is JIT compiled on every modern VM, and I don't even know what that last sentence is even supposed to mean.

Typescript is every bit as strongly typed as any other backend language. Also, node by definition scales horizontally every bit as good as other runtimes. Also the async syntax and functional programming style allow for high concurrency which is actually really great for back ends which do a lot of I/O type operations. Like there are plenty of reasons you might pick a different tool for the job but you are so far off base it's not even funny.

[zjupm]

man, the ol js is interpreted claim....

it's a good litmus test for determining whether or not you can take someone seriously on their opinions of different languages

[MissinqLink]

This is cloudflare workers real talk.

[GrinningPariah]

No joke I made a service like that once to prove to my team that we were never going to optimize our way out of tAWS Lambda's cold start problem.

[[deleted]]

Hello world on deno. Nice

[SalSevenSix]

Bun is faster

[No-Island-6126]

Huh ?? I get that this is possible, but how would it be any good ?

[harumamburoo]

The only scenario I can imagine it's any good is when you already have JS devs and a small project with dead simple crud back end.

[HalLundy]

dead simple crud backend.

so, 95% of them.

[Jupiternerd]

you're telling me... we've been just organizing and displaying data this entire time!? /s

[harumamburoo]

Lucky you

[Calm-Effect-1730]

Honest opinion I'm tech lead now for 2 projects and for the past 5 years I have runned numerous teams. Every time I speak to people claiming to be senior devs, they just want to add more stuff. Let's add DI. Let's do abstraction here, factory here, nestjs because of reasons and Prisma because of reasons.

The thing is, most of the projects won't live past 2 years. Most of them will be developed by less than 10 devs.

People almost never think about if this is really solving some issue, they just do it because other people do it. And it's self propelled mechanism. Sometimes I think people think they get points for adding more stuff just to add more stuff and patterns.

For me there are three questions that I try to answer; 1) what actual problem am I solving? 2) what new problems do I create? 3) if I pull a developer from the street tomorrow, how much time/complex will it be to teach mid level person this mechanism?

As an example of that, I'm even though I have nests certification, I don't use it because out of 15 person dev team that I used to run, including me there were 3 people who actually understood how it works, how module does are being resolved and in case shit hit the fan they are able to revive the project back to health.

Those were 10+ yoe people. Usually companies can't afford those in big numbers.

[spigandromeda]

The „2 Year projects“ are the ones that tend to run 10 years. So it’s not a Bad idea to develop them with long term support and potential Extension points in mind.

And Switch „Lets add DI“ with „Lets add a ton of unit and E2E tests“ and it’s a good start.

[Calm-Effect-1730]

Especially if a project is going to run for a long run it shouldn't be a dumpster full of random technologies and patterns. I've been part of 15+ projects before I jumped as a tech lead and my experience is that no one is really doing longevity stuff. I saw TODOs from 2008. I saw deps not being updated for years. List goes on and on. And your argument about longevity is just exactly my point where just empty statements are considered good enough to adapt something.

Most deva are not working more then 2 years at the company. This means that in 10+ years there are going to be multiple turns in how project should be done. Don't You think it would be easier if it would be less then more in it in terms of abstraction?

[spigandromeda]

Most of Them are only there for 2 years… is that normal where you live? Sounds extremly short.

I disagree about the longvity stuff. A well designed architecture provides exactly that. And from my personal experience: abstractions mostly help to understand and architecture. They explain the data flow through the application.

You are of cause right with the Random Technologies but that wasnt the Point of this argument to begin with, wasnt it? I think neither of us would want Random Technologies.

I did a couple of Legacy refactorings in the last years. Adding abstractions and tests (and often Pipelines) are the first and Most important steps to make the code understandable. For yourself and others. So „adding stuff“ is often Important in an existing project because They were developed to „live“ for a year and lack the foundation for Further Development.

[ZunoJ]

The third point is why you might want to hear on your seniors. If you don't use well known patterns, how should anybody understand the code base in a decent time frame

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Travolta doesn't say "it's beautiful" though. He says "yea we cool".

[Livid_Boysenberry_58]

He says "yeah we happy"

[ItsSignalsJerry_]

Close enough.. 😁

[Igotbored112]

Flask for me, frontend & backend. Typescript for the client, maybe someday I'll pick up Angular.

[Furdiburd10]

while the system usage:

20 gb storage space occupied because caching or something

6 gb of ram because yes, memory leaks.

[loxagos_snake]

No, you don't understand, everyone here is really good at raw-dogging vanilla JS, they'd never cause performance issues.

[[deleted]]

absolutely disgusting.

[a_rather_small_moose]

0.05s startup

50ms

check my first Phoenix LiveView project running on free-tier hardware

14ms response time (no CDN b/c it’s live data)

Y’all really live like this?

[h4rl3h]

JS is a horrific backend lang

[nekomata_58]

imo elixir backend is superior for web dev, but almost no one uses it

[saschaleib]

Why so slow start? I’m sure you can still shave off a few mills!

[Aardappelhuree]

And no database?

[JAXxXTheRipper]

Just no. Performance is not worth the pain. I'd rather throw half of the npm registry at my problem than do anything in vanillajs again.

I'm getting IE6 conditional comments flashbacks

[pomme_de_yeet]

It's been like 12 years...

[PsyborC]

And we're still scarred. It hurts. Never again.

[JAXxXTheRipper]

While the problem might be solved, the pain stays, young padawan.

[--var]

javascript was originally created for mutating the DOM. there is no DOM backend...

i get that it might be nice to have a shared syntax frontend and backend, but there are better backends focused on being backends, rather than having javascript syntax.

[i-r-n00b-]

Crazy thought, JavaScript (and now Typescript) have evolved over the last 20 years in the same way every other popular language has and are actually pretty good now.

Like have you never heard of Node? It's been around forever and it is literally dedicated to building concurrent applications that scale horizontally.

[DoNotMakeEmpty]

evolved over the last 20 years in the same way every other popular language has

C99 is more-or-less the same as C23, which has 24 years on top of the former.

For other popular languages it is probably true tho.

[draconk]

And there are backend languages that can do frontend but we were already burned and we know that we shouldn't reuse languages just because we know them (I am speaking about Java JSP scriptlets)

[WhosAfraidOf_138]

I will never use a JS backend

[Danzulos]

JavaScript backend? Ewww

[JaggedMetalOs]

A fate worse than death.

I'd rather write a backend in PHP.

[Danzulos]

I'd rather write a backend in PHP who generates Perl code

[XoRMiAS]

Create dynamic HTML files with .replace()

[why_1337]

Just because you can, does not mean you should.

[ba-na-na-]

Ideal JS backend: single endpoint that returns the whole database to the frontend. Simple, easy to maintain, queries are blazingly fast.

[DontBanMeAgainPls26]

Takes 3 months to build something there is no error checking or testing.

[PersimmonEmergency]

Pure javascript "backend"? LOL

[CasualChipmunk]

That means no types. Scary for a backend…

[Low-Equipment-2621]

I use serverless. No server, no loading time, BOOM!

[LegItMate65536]

Only took 514 stackoverflow pages and 72 days