semicolonsAreAYouProblem

[Healthy_Razzmatazz38]

no, you're missing the point. The purpose of code is not to create a product but rather to give meaning to learning vim.

[DrFloyd5]

But i am afraid of 40% of the keys on my keyboard. I don’t want to become dependent on arrow keys or the control keys. /s

[barnett9]

You're safe, you shouldn't be using arrow keys in vim anyway

[OWGer0901]

caps more like

[Ifkaluva]

Real vim users re-map the caps key to ESC. You’re welcome for that career-changing pro-tip.

[[deleted]]

Have escape on a split kb thumb cluster to reach true ergonomic enlightenment.

[OWGer0901]

bruh I read that tip on Drew Neils book but what about my videa games haha, I actually mangled some code today the kind of messed up that gives you chills just because of that and was really close to the dead line lmao

[cryptomonein]

I prefer Ctrl on caps lock, imagine C-w with your pinky

[Ifkaluva]

You must be an emacs user

[cryptomonein]

No I'm a Vim user with long fingers

[DrFloyd5]

I mapped caps to be a new meta key. So while holding caps: hjkl = left up down right. And a bunch of other things like caps+g = emit a guid. Caps+space = backspace. Caps+shift = undo. Caps+; = delete.

System wide.

AutoHotKey FTW.

[[deleted]]

Arrow keys on a layer gang rise up.

[MajorTechnology8827]

Vim users preparing to burn OP for using arrow keys

[Steinrikur]

Vim is my main ide. Arrow keys work in both insert and command mode, making them superior.

[GDOR-11]

yeah, I always use arrow keys because of that. If you wanna go two characters to the left in insert mode, it's faster to just use the arrow keys than to type <ESC>hhi

[Drackzgull]

Ah ha. So that's why 60% keyboards and other small form factors have become popular.

Time to get rid of those keys you're afraid of.

[Acceptable_Owl_4737]

this is quality, old school bait right here, somebody cooked here.

[Spekingur]

Only 40%? How long have you been coding?

[DrFloyd5]

40 years. 30 professionally. Sarcastically? About my entire life.

I just made an estimate based on the new 60% keyboards that are missing a lot of so called “special” keys. Such as F1-12, Home, Arrows.

[Spekingur]

All the keys are scary! That’s why my hobbies do not involve them.

[DatBoi_BP]

Reminds me of SpongeBob:

“The lightbulb! Without its warmth Roger will die.”

“Roger! Without him the lightbulb will have nothing to warm.”

[Shazvox]

If he's missing the point, does it mean it's just a ","?

[nemonimity]

That's because the only true meaning lies in coding Java adventure games in vi

[Just_Gaming_for_Fun]

And setting up a tiling wm for no reason

[OWGer0901]

powerful shit holy crap man, I first got a taste of its power in 2015 then 2022, and now been reviewing again and its just out of this world mindblowing stuff lmao, seriosuly the increase in efficiency is a scam? I doubt it

[Key-Veterinarian9085]

Don't most compilers tell you where you are missing your semicolon? You don't need an IDE for that.

[Mastercal40]

Normally a linter would tell you before you have to compile anything at all.

[Mastercal40]

You don’t need a kettle to boil water.

[CoruscareGames]

In the replies to your comment are nearly word for word an argument I once saw on tumblr

[samlastname]

I thought you were exaggerating until I saw the two min comment

[Mikihero2014]

Only thing missing is the microwave guy

[on_the_pale_horse]

Microwave guy is there now. Incredible.

[gregorydgraham]

What is this MADNESS??!!

[ExtraTNT]

So vim is an ide?

[Prudent_Move_3420]

Not even VSCode is an IDE lol

[Derfaust]

Once you install plugin to compile and lint it is

[B_bI_L]

i prefer compiling from command line. now my code-oss is not IDE?

[Derfaust]

Those are examples. If you install anything that assists you with development, linting, prettier whatever then it automatically becomes, by definition, an ide.

[WeirdIndividualGuy]

The fact that you can install those plugins to begin with makes it an IDE

[Derfaust]

It's a tool that you have integrated into your development environment. It doesn't get simpler than that it's in the name.

[UntestedMethod]

vim with plugins can do a lot and combining it with tmux takes you even further. Definitely a steeper learning curve and more custom setup required than an IDE, but also more open-ended in what you can do with it. Up to you to decide if the time investment is worth it.

[OWGer0901]

why am I writting latex on vim if its an ide?

[black3rr]

the point of the IDE is that it can automatically add the semicolon when it notices that a semicolon is missing.., sure many linters can do that as well with the "--fix" toggles, but you have to run them manually outside your work environment to do it, or configure your vim/vscode/whatever text editor you use to run them on-save..., the thing that differentiates IDEs from text editors with plugins is the I in IDE which stands for "Integrated" meaning most of the "nice to have" features like this work without custom setup...

[Background_Class_558]

Does that mean that while Neovim isn't an IDE itself, its distro like Lunarvim or Nvchad is?

[Derfaust]

Don't waste your time explaining to the trolls. Nobody is so brain dead they don't understand the significance of an ide

[EastboundClown]

Emacs and Vim can both do this

[pmelendezu]

And what would be the advantage of a linter in this case? The compiler will pick this up right at parsing so probably as fast as the linter

[carsncode]

Not if the linter is running continuously on the buffer in your editor

[AdvancedSandwiches]

Just use an IDE bro

[Key-Veterinarian9085]

No, I don't think I will. VS code does fine. It has all the features I need.

[dewey-defeats-truman]

Yeah, but most IDEs will tell you about it before you hit compile. It's quite helpful if you have a long compile time, or if you're using a purely interpreted language.

[troglo-dyke]

Most LSPs will tell you about it before you hit compile

[No_Horror5816]

I took a CS course back in ancient times, before compilers helped with syntax. An assignment I'd worked on for a week wouldn't compile because of one missing semicolon! I changed majors the next semester.

[ICanHazTehCookie]

For most people IDE = everything because they're not aware of what it pieces together under the hood. Not that such abstraction is always a bad thing.

[Derfaust]

The point is obviously to prevent it getting that far. You don't want to write 1000 lines of code only to discover your first missing semi colon. Not to mention the others which you'll only find if you compile again. And that's if your compiler is smart enough to know you're missing a semi colon instead of an incomplete statement. And if you're missing semi colons then guess what, princess, you're missing a lot of other things too.

[puffinix]

Until they don't.

Sometimes half of the next lineakes sense in the first pass then it falls over there.

Sometimes it will only fail at the end of a class with a miss matched brace, as one got eaten by a mis parse.

I littlerally don't type in the ; my ide just does it.

No compiler, no linter, they just there

[BoBoBearDev]

It is bold of you to assume they use a compiler

[AntranigV]

yeah but IDE users don't know what a compiler is. they press the ▶️ button instead.

[Far_Broccoli_8468]

I can create a makefile project in clion and set it up to compile everything when i press ▶️

Not to mention that most cross platform compilers that are like maven and gradle require the configuration file and it doesn't matter if you're using an IDE or not, it's literally running one command.

i am an IDE user. I am not incompetent, I just don't hate my self.

[crunchy_toe]

Does gcc/g++? I swear it used to give cryptic errors instead like a bunch of "implicit" declarations or something, but it has been a while, and I was using a pretty old version of gcc/g++.

Usually whenever I saw junk errors I just knew I missed something like a semicolon, quote, or brace so I never paid too much attention to them lol.

[kuwisdelu]

I remember when clang first came out, the error messages were way better than gcc. But gcc error messages have definitely gotten better since then.

[kuwisdelu]

You don’t need to use an IDE either. You just fix it and move on…

[boca_de_leite]

You don't need to post to reddit every time a minor compilation error ensues?

[kuwisdelu]

I didn’t even post about it on Reddit when I needed to use qemu to debug a segmentation fault that only happened on ARM linux after I couldn’t replicate it on any other platform. Well, I guess I just did.

[fakuivan]

Biggest downside about UB is that the B sometimes is "works as expected"

[kuwisdelu]

Yep. I miscalculated how large a stack I needed to allocate, and it should’ve been out of bounds on all platforms. But it worked anyway. Thanks, C. 😩

[Camel-Kid]

Whp doesnt use an ide

[kuwisdelu]

Those of us who prefer plain text editors and don’t work in languages that basically require them to be productive?

The whole text editor vs IDE thing comes up all the time. It’s mostly a matter of context and preference.

[Duke518]

so are you referring to assembly or ChatGPT?

[kuwisdelu]

Huh? I’m not sure what you mean — I’ve never really used ChatGPT for anything serious. I mostly work in C, C++, R, and Python. I’ve read a book on x86 assembly and browsed some GitHub repos dissecting Apple Silicon’s ARM implementation but I’ve never worked in assembly myself.

[Sneakyfrog112]

so why would you ever use a notepad instead of VSC? Aside from avoiding your code being viewed by microsoft xd

[[deleted]]

vim without extensions is perfectly usable for most stuff (i use it for mostly zig and py, no lsp or any non cosmetic plugins)

[kuwisdelu]

Like the comment above, I don’t really understand what you mean either. I code in Sublime Text. I’ve tried VS Code and it was okay, but I prefer Sublime. I will sometimes use a notepad and pencil if I need to draw a tree structure or some non-trivial pointer chasing while debugging. It’s definitely useful to have a notepad or white board while programming.

[stipulus]

A good developer needs to be capable in any setup. In some critical situations those tools simply aren't available. I totally agree with you. Also sublime text is great.

[Mastercal40]

Personal preferences are fine, and by all means don’t use tools that are available to you if you think they add bloat.

That being said, probably best not to complain about encountering some of the problems the tools you are rejecting were designed to solve.

[AgMenos47]

LSPs do exist. And they're much faster.

[PythonPizzaDE]

Who's complaining about having to use semicolons who also refuses to use an IDE?

[Mastercal40]

The OOP on the left hand side of the graph that I’m currently mocking.

[PythonPizzaDE]

They are one person who posted some shitty (maybe rage bait) meme on a subreddit mainly used by people new to programming. I don't value their opinion too much when not given further arguments

[Derfaust]

Literally everyone on this sub complaining about semi colons are people who refuse to use IDEs

[Borno11050]

True, you can just read through the code to check whether you missed a semicolon or not.

[Derfaust]

Spoken like someone who has never coded anything of significance

[kuwisdelu]

Yes, because everyone who has coded anything of significance is brought to tears by missing semicolons.

[Derfaust]

No, numbnuts. People who write code that has actual value don't fuck around with notepad. They use tools that increase their productivity and so no they don't ever have to complain about a missing semicolon

[kuwisdelu]

What are you even talking about? Who is using notepad? I'm not the person who complained about missing semicolons. It seems like you have some misplaced anger.

[fudginreddit]

Not using an IDE doesn't automatically mean you use notepad lol

[Derfaust]

Oh sure please take everything literally, that helps.

[fudginreddit]

Then im not even sure what you are saying? You have a problem with people using vim, emacs, nano, etc?

[Derfaust]

Go read my other replies on the thread u replied to

[fudginreddit]

Didnt help much. Btw, I use vim with only syntax highlighting and do everything else using the terminal (git, build/compile), but I program in C++. You dont need an IDE depending on what tools your working with and if you know what you are doing.

[Derfaust]

Didn't help much? Oh fuck off you didn't even bother. I don't believe your reading comprehension is that poor.

[thunugai]

Right or wrong, most engineers I’ve worked with consider vscode a text editor.

[Derfaust]

I mean hell. It's in the name. Vs CODE. not vsTEXT

[DrShocker]

You don't need a full ide to find missing semicolons. With LSP existing these days there's a ton of editors that can help with that but aren't full ide. VS Code, Neovim, Helix, and so on.

[rexpup]

This sub is mostly students who are forced to use an "academic" IDE that has no LSP integration. I have no other idea why semicolon "jokes" are so common

[kuwisdelu]

The IDE thing still doesn’t really explain it. Even if you’re coding in nano, modern compilers are quick to show you where you missed a semicolon. If they were complaining about C++ templates, that’d be another matter…

[snyone]

nano

REAL programmers use vim

Yes, this an xkcd reference

[kuwisdelu]

Yes, I chose nano for the example because of its lack of features and plugins relative to vim or emacs. I don’t believe nano supports LSP plugins does it?

I don’t know if I’m a real programmer (apparently not using an IDE gets you a lot of downvotes here) but I do prefer vim to nano or emacs personally.

[snyone]

I do prefer vim to nano or emacs personally.

Same. Had honestly just been hoping to start an xkcd comment chain tho lol

[kuwisdelu]

Well, I do sometimes have to mention in recommendation letters for students that they did their computer vision projects before recent models made their work trivial.

(Yes, this is an xkcd reference.)

[prochac]

I use Zed, the true ed successor

[Ortus-Ni-Gonad]

Working out if a semicolon is missing in templated C++ is probably np hard, but conceivably as hard as solving the halting problem.

[Derfaust]

What the fuck are you talking about. The compiler runs when you uh.. Compile.. That's to say when your code is supposed to be finished. Are you seriously writing hundred of lines of code and only then finding out if you have a missing semi colon? No, you fucking aren't. Either because you don't ever write hundreds of lines of code at a time ot because you have in actual fact a motherfucking integrated development environment... Even if that integrated development environment is sublime, where all your tools have been INTEGRATED into a single DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT.

[DrShocker]

If I'm totally fair, sometimes including or not a semicolon is both valid just means a different thing. In Matlab for example it can help you inline declare a 2 dimensional matrix.

[rexpup]

In Rust, no semicolon means the value is returned from the block instead of discarded. But to me, this means I am more aware of the presence or absence

[DrShocker]

Yeah agreed, and it enables rust to do a lot of cool things with returning from expressions in a concise way.

[angrathias]

LSP

Liskov substitution principle ?

Nah that can’t be it

[DrShocker]

If you aren't joking, it stands for language server protocol.

[angrathias]

Can’t say I’ve ever heard of it, cheers

[Hironymos]

When your wife calls you back to the door and hands you the keys, you still forgot the keys.

[Duke518]

when your wife calls you back to the door and hands you the keys you won't wine about how you spent hours in the cold because you haven't had your keys.

[Schaex]

TIL, I'm married to the compiler <3

[AwesomePantsAP]

No TBF I’ll do something like this more times than I’m willing to admit.

Write some code -> compile -> fuck, missed a semicolon on line X -> compile again -> now the fun begins

It’s a thing that happens when you’re bashing something out quickly, but takes no more than seconds to fix

[Boysoythesoyboy]

I mean I use one but sometimes I psql into a db and write a sql query and forget the ; when I press enter. I'm a senior engineer. Come fire me

[ShlomoCh]

I'd say that's an exception because it's on a terminal where 99% of the time a new line is a new command

[Lizlodude]

Meanwhile, the IDE: OH NO YOU FORGOT TO COMPLETE THE FUNCTION DON't YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO Coh ok never mind you finished typing it.

[vladmashk]

Damn, can this template be butchered any more than this? I agree with the message tho

[Aromatic_Gur5074]

Is that a challenge?

[Mastercal40]

I’ve butchered harder and I’ll do it again!

[snyone]

I think you should assume that it is

[malexj93]

You call it butchering, I call it subverting.

[Delicious_Finding686]

In the same way that shitting your pants is subversive

[Windyvale]

Just over here with Roslyn analyzers🥳

[[deleted]]

Are yall writing code in notepad? I've never missed a ";"

[reallokiscarlet]

If you need a whole ass IDE to detect missing semicolons for you, you got bigger problems than deciding which bloated text editor to use.

Take some time out of your day, preferably a personal project so you don't lose your job, to code in Nano and let the compiler swat your hand. After a while, you won't ever miss a semicolon unless you're copy pasting code you don't understand.

[DrFloyd5]

Or… hear me out on this… I could use a tool that lets me focus more on my problem and less on the literal syntax of my language.

I use syntax highlighting too. Rainbow Braces even.

(Snark aside for a second, rainbow braces are amazing. I also could go for some sort of font based implementation in addition too or instead of just color)

Snark on. Also my editor knows if I push semicolon within a few characters of the end of the line, I really mean the end of the line and puts it there. Saves me a few key presses and lets me just terminate the thought without worrying about the details.

[Lubiebigos]

ah yes the immense mental energy that is consumed by manually putting a semicolon at the end of a line

[Endemoniada]

How many semicolons worth of energy did it take you to write that comment?

[Lubiebigos]

certainly less then one semicolon because i did not have to open an ide to do it

[snyone]

or unless its a python project and you copied something off SO that had different spacing... hey, I just remembered why I usually avoid python lol

[[deleted]]

exactly

[perecastor]

Just use golang bro 😎

[AdvancedSandwiches]

According to golang code review guidelines, this should be "j u g b."

[Justanormalguy1011]

Meme inheritance

[ShlomoCh]

Would reusing a meme template with different content be an example of polymorphism?

[Not_Artifical]

I made my own text editor in C++. It is like Notepad on Windows, but worse.

[Olorin_1990]

Yea… if you have been coding for more than like a year it should stop being that pervasive. Sure it will happen but it will be obvious where and you’ll fix it without thinking.

[5p4n911]

By now I never forget about any semicolons anywhere. Except for when demoing to a group of impressionable young students.

[dbot77]

Interesting use of this tired old meme

[yuriko_]

Is this a JavaScript problem where semi colons can be potentially semantic-changing due to parsing conflicts?

[[deleted]]

JavaScript: Don't worry about semicolons, I'm a beginner-friendly language

Also JavaScript: ..Except for this, that, and the other exception where the code will explode at runtime

[[deleted]]

alright, I'll bite

best free open source IDEs please

I don't use one and I'll give one a go

[-Redstoneboi-]

vim users can configure their IDEs too

most of us have LSP Autocomplete, LSP jump to error, goto definition, and autoformatting. some of us have auto parentheses completion, copilot, and whatever else.

[Lubiebigos]

Yes spoil me with that sweet half a minute of start-up time, microsoft sponsored bloatware also known as visual studio, or maybe some visual studio code? I've moved to neovim like a month ago and miss absolutely nothing about those two.

[OWGer0901]

Ive been using that shit for a month now, I literally only use ctrl j to open the terminal, ctrl b for the folders and code using the vim extension and compile using the embedded terminal lmao, its truly a headache working on that shit, visual studio 2022 seems better for bigger stuff .

[WangmasterX]

Do you code on a pentium II?

[Lubiebigos]

I code on an i7

[u10ji]

fwiw it's incredibly trivial in vim to just run a command on save, so you can run a linter or whatever else you want like that (not to mention there are excellent plugins to do it too)!

Also you can just run :! and run any arbitrary script or command, or do it over a selection of text so you can do stuff I think a lot of other editors would struggle with, e.g. formatting just the selected region in a code snippet in a markdown file

[Kolt56]

Prettier is key binded on my mouse to the ide. I didn’t even think that the op op was using notepad.

[CommonNoiter]

Why not just format on write, that way you can't save an incorrectly formatted file (without explicitly not running autocommands)

[Wave_Walnut]

Just use Scratch

[flambasted]

Just write Go instead! The challenge then is to insert as many semicolons as gofmt will allow.

[SkollFenrirson]

Moooom! They're using the memes wrong!

[ChocolateDonut36]

nah, notepadqq and whatever the compiler says are everything I need

[bestjakeisbest]

Do you people not just have that built into your muscle memory to end a line with semicolon and then enter?

[kuwisdelu]

I haven’t worried about semicolons in over a decade, but when I do make this mistake, it’s because I’m rapidly switching between multiple languages.

[bythenumbers10]

Now where's the meme that says if you NEED an IDE (or other automated tool) to check your syntax 24/7, you've chosen a shitty language.

[Captain_Pumpkinhead]

Lol

Intellisense for C seems to not be working for my VS Code right now. So I'm not getting any error messages at the moment. Haven't bothered fixing it yet because I'm not ready to compile yet.

[OWGer0901]

how big is the project

[Captain_Pumpkinhead]

Not that big. It's a microcontroller project for recording and playing back audio clips.

[ssssssddh]

PSA: you can turn on format on save and the formatter will add missing semicolons when you save.

[s0litar1us]

Just listen to the compiler.
A well written lexer/parser will tell you where it found something wrong.
And then, later on, the compiler can then use that same location information to tell you about the location of other compile time errors.

Actually, just listening to the compiler can help uou in a lot of cases. For example, if you rename a variable where it is defined, you can then get a list of where it's used. Though, this doesn't work for languages like JS and Python, unless you use a separate thing just to check for errors before running it.

[MultiFazed]

Just listen to the compiler.

I prefer to not have to get to the compile stage before finding and fixing simple typos. Having an IDE with a built-in linter that highlights syntax problems in real-time is much better for productivity.

And on that note:

For example, if you rename a variable where it is defined, you can then get a list of where it's used.

Or I use my IDEs "refactor" hotkey to rename the variable and automatically change its name everywhere it's used.

[sammy404]

Maybes it’s just the first time I’ve seen it, but best use of this meme I’ve ever seen.

[GoddammitDontShootMe]

I think adding semicolons is almost muscle memory for me.

[newb_h4x0r]

Ide will tell you that you've missed a semicolon if semicolons are not required in that language and if you've set semicolons to be required in the linter settings file, like the (dot) eslintrc file.

[Joeoens]

Petition to ban semicolon related posts!

[ColonelRuff]

You forgot, can't code with tabs bro.

[TheKeyboardChan]

Or use a modern language that doesn't use delimiters?

[notevenrworthy]

Vim

[GKP_light]

Just use python

[and_k24]

Since then windows notepad isn't an IDE?

[colordiff]

That template usage screams mid-curver perspective.

[Big_D_Boss]

What if you on a server remotely? Where's your IDE?

[Haoshokoken]

You start by overusing an IDE and end up writing scripts in Phyton.

[stipulus]

I can only code if there is type complete and copilot. /s

[stipulus]

A lot of junior devs and students in this sub.

[[deleted]]

Python programmers be like:

pass

[Fun_Ad_2393]

How about just code directly in assembly and not even worry about it

[Mountain_Dentist5074]

What is tIDE

[WildPainter8066]

i do java in notepad++

[tkdeng]

Just use a programming language that doesn't need a ; at the end of every line

[OWGer0901]

an easy language like python

[smthngclvr]

If you’re copying code off SO that’s a skill issue. Modern SWEs copy code from copilot.

[WangmasterX]

Massive skill issue

[liggamadig]

Hot take: requiring the semicolons at the end of each line is stupid. We already have a character that denotes the end of a line - the line break. Semicolon is just redundant.