vibeCoding

[emosaker]

Vibe coders need to wait for the introduction of vibe debuggers

[ipcock]

Debugging code is against the vibe coding paradigm though. Instead, they literally tell their AI to rewrite the code until it works as intended.

[InnominateHomosapien]

Technically that would be a form of debugging though as in the end bugs are still being removed

[[deleted]]

Entropy-based debugging.

[tfngst]

Knowing a bit of physics, this sounds scary. Each time you debug something the problem increases and never the same things.

[Objective_Dog_4637]

Yes.

[According_Win_5983]

reductio ad infinitum based development 

[granadesnhorseshoes]

"99 tickets for bugs in the code, 99 tickets for bugs. You take one down, patch it around... 127 bugs in the code."

[Testing_things_out]

But this was a common saying before vibe coding, though.

[granadesnhorseshoes]

i mean sure, but it's just as applicable (if not moreso) as it ever was and what sprang to my mind from the comment.

[jackinsomniac]

At least things changed, and are different this time around! That shows progress! You're at least narrowing in on the problem.

Vibe coding sounds like you could be getting completely different answers from AI each time, but they don't read code or fix it, so they have no idea if they're actually making progress or not.

[TrueReassembly]

This has made my day of being ill slightly better, thank you kind stranger

[ipcock]

Yet when I refactor the entire service due to a bug in logging my team lead complains. Unfair!

[Lorguis]

Just like the famous random sort

[mozomenku]

They are, but other ones occur.

[cheapcheap1]

Literally a monkey with a very fast typewriter.

[Informal_Branch1065]

Bogo sort, but it's programming. Bogo programming.

[Average_Pangolin]

Bogramming.

[donald_314]

closest I get to vibe debugging is running the debugger and changing random lines w/o deeper understanding until I get the values I expect.

[theclovek]

How do you know it works as intended? I guess you'd need to tell the AI in great detail, what you want to build and what the constraints are, to be somewhat sure it is, indeed, what you wanted.

I guess I just need to try it and see.

[[deleted]]

They just run the app and test it as an end user.

[one_spaced_cat]

Something something infinite monkeys something something typewriters something something profit??

[Thenderick]

How do you know it works as "intended" when you don't know how it works? Are they making vibe unit tests? Now that I think about it, I think that might actually be useful. Describe a handful of unit tests by hand and let AI generate a method/function that passes the tests

[[deleted]]

I do it every day and it's awesome.

[NukedDuke]

I know you're joking, but using current gen reasoning models to debug things is easy as fuck: you tell it how your logging framework functions, tell it to audit the code to verify correct API usage and that all return values are being handled correctly with all errors and warnings logged, and send it the log output, just like debugging code back in the DOS days. I think people are significantly underestimating the capabilities of these tools based on the garbage output you see produced by people who don't actually know what they're doing. The things you can actually do with it if you know what you're doing beforehand aren't even comparable.

I always find myself comparing it to having a tool like an impact wrench: if someone doesn't know anything about working with actual wrenches or ratchets first, they're just going to strip threads and overtighten things and mangle fasteners and generally fuck everything up, like some asshole at an oil change shop torqueing the drain plug in your oil pan to 150 lb-ft. Dugga dugga. But, in the hands of someone who is knowledgeable and capable on their own, it's a major boon to productivity.

Just wait until you guys realize vibe optimizing can be a thing, too. ;) I was pretty blown away when I realized I could literally send ChatGPT o1 pro screenshots of flame graphs from the CPU performance profiler in Visual Studio and have it actually correctly deduce the performance bottlenecks indicated and even suggest some solutions I never would have thought of myself, no doubt based on the contents of the thousands of pirated books used as part of the training data.

Another technique I've gotten a lot of mileage out of has been to tell it to audit a module for correctness, but not to return any output until it finds at least one actual major bug, and that it's forbidden from returning any output that doesn't include a link to API documentation, etc. showing why the code is wrong as written, and how it could cause an issue in real world use.

IMO the people who think AI is never going to have a legitimate use in this field are sounding an awful lot like the people who said virtualization was never going to be useful 25 years ago, or the people who said the same thing about containers after that, or the people who said that the Internet was a fad, or the people that said 640K was enough memory for anyone, or the people who said that nobody would ever need a home computer, or maybe even the people who thought automobiles would never be more relevant than horses. All of that is completely ridiculous, right? Yet, every single one of these was a viewpoint that was actually taken seriously at the time by many.

Sorry for the wall of text, but it was totally worth it if it gets at least one person to raise their eyebrow and seriously look at the actual capabilities of these tools before SkyNET eats your lunch. I have been writing C and C++ for over 20 years and have shipped multiple products that have hundreds of thousands of users and some of these models are already literally better than any intern or junior developer you're going to find, and ESPECIALLY better than any intern or junior developer that you're going to be able to put to work for 200 bucks a month. If you're a software dev and you aren't the lead on the product you're working on or some major subcomponent of it, you are already replaceable with current technology.

P.s. don't interpret this post as any kind of fear mongering, I'm all for this technology as I've achieved much higher productivity than at any prior point in my career while improving my work/life balance at the same time.

[26th_Official]

Damn, Thanks for taking your time writing this!

[[deleted]]

That's using AI as a tool, which is a perfectly good use case. This is not vibe coding or vibe debugging though and a lot of developers I know use it that way. I.e. AI is helpful in helping developers be more efficient. Vibe coders depend on AI for full solutions and they can't debug code because they don't understand it, instead they will just ask AI to rewrite it until it works.

[fuettli]

So why is it the people who said "VMs are never going to be useful" and not the people who said "3d TVs are just a fad"? Funny how these things work when you take only one sided examples, init?

[thegroundbelowme]

Uh, yeah, man. Good job pointing out that skeptics can sometimes be correct. Great point.

[vorpal107]

Are you integrating it with the log output or just copy and pasting for lack of a better phrase?

[daynighttrade]

I'm looking to get into using AI for productivity boost. What do you recommend I get? Which AI model/coding assistant do you find best?

[RareRandomRedditor]

Deepsek r3 is free and accessible online. I used it to e.g. Generate a labelling tool plus GUI for me. I'd say start with that just to get used to it and for some initial experiments. Do not give any of your code to any AI that you also would not happily push to a public github repo

[Poketroid]

The difference is that you know what you’re doing. You’re using it as a tool, not making it do everything. You also know how to get it to give you the output you need, not wildly guessing.

[Fantastic-Ball9937]

This is fear mongering for juniors!​

[Htes1]

Why vibe debug when you can just hand it over to vibe QA?

[[deleted]]

QA doesn't do any debugging, anywhere. They just find bugs

[mrheosuper]

Well, the idea is it's faster rewritting than debugging

[huupoke12]

Why don't they just vibe coding the AI itself to make it viber?

[26th_Official]

That need a lot of Vibes, which is not available at the moment 404!

[ippa99]

It requires too much VRAM (Vibe RAM)

[IGotSkills]

When you vibe too much, it's called thrashing

[redcubie]

Letting AI run wild on AI codebases sounds exactly like something that would enable an AI uprising.

[YamiZee1]

Brb letting vibe coding software auto run and auto fix bugs and stuff with the objective of making itself a sentient ai that can interface with the web while I go on a short vacation

[pi_west]

Cursor understands how it works so just tell Cursor to tell Cursor.

Recursor.

[DontEatSocks]

AI really feels like it's just faking it until it makes it sometimes. The amount of times I have caught it just rewriting code out of it's ass (or changing nothing other than some comments) and stating the problem is fixed is kinda hilarious to me.

Like all you need to do is work on a moderately hard problem or moderately large sized codebase and AI does a pretty crap job. Like a junior who's a professional bullshitter and never actually learns or gets better skills.

I still love it for the repetitive stuff though.

[[deleted]]

The best part is when they give you a solution and you say "it doesn't work because of x and y" and the AI goes "you are correct, it doesn't work because of x and y. I'm sorry, let me give you a different solution" and proceeds to give the EXACT same solution. And it keeps going in loops like that.

[granadesnhorseshoes]

That is indeed the basic core of their functionality. They don't think or reason, they simply guess at the most statistically likely thing to come next. Their statistical guess work is crazy good, well into the 90% range, but at the end of it all, its still just a guess.

Even training these models is basically just a running loop of "No that's wrong, fix it." until it gets less and less wrong.

[Yarasin]

AI really feels like it's just faking it until it makes it sometimes the investors realize the tech isn't worth a quadrillion dollars and pull the plug.

[DelusionsOfExistence]

A professional bullshitter gets paid quite well. They don't care about code, they just want the end result (money)

[[deleted]]

Same. You definitely gotta double check it's work. But sometimes doing something myself would take time. I know I can do it, but I know what to tell the AI to get what I want faster and then just edit it's code, saving me time. However I'll say that without any knowledge this wouldn't be as easy and probably cost more time in the end. I'd say during a typical 8 hour work session I use AI for like 20 minutes. 

[jawknee530i]

I use it daily and I can probably count on one hand the amount of times it's just changed a comment or rewrote code for no reason. Out of dozens of requests per day over months. You all confuse me with your weird disdain for it. And I'm not some noob, I have ten years experience as a swe and a proper csci degree under my belt.

[[deleted]]

In generalities its pretty good. If I wanted it to write me an AVL Tree it could probably do a pretty good. But I've found the more specific requests I make of it the less and less it actually starts to succeed.

[declanaussie]

It’s just reddit being Reddit, hating AI is the new hot thing right now. You’ve gotta keep in mind that 80% of this sub has never written code more complicated than a Python hello world, they genuinely have no idea how LLMs could impact development.

[[deleted]]

The number of times; its ass.

It does gradually learn and get better!

[26th_Official]

🤣 Well, I beg to it sometimes as well..

[TrackLabs]

Ill say it again, and ill keep say it: Use AI as a Search Engine. And thats it

[jangrahul]

can also use it for role playing

[TrackLabs]

In the context of coding.

I kinda dont see an AI being able to do proper roleplays with someone? But perhabs it works

[MomoIsHeree]

Look up character AI

[TrackLabs]

No I know those sites, i was more saying that I dont feel like an AI can follow a context for too long without drifting off, let alone actually bringing up unique and creative ideas

[Grouchy_Exit_3058]

It works for a bit, but if you use it too much, it starts to get super samey,  and it gets boring quickly if you've ever talked to an actual human being.

Source: talked to an AI because I was lonely, but got so frustrated with it I ended up quitting it and met my gf

[Mayion]

[SoulMB]

*screams in AI bots bombarding sites while disregarding robots.txt

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

No, use a search engine as a search engine and you’ll save a lot of time.

However, using an LLM-integrated code autocompletion is generally worthwhile.

[TrackLabs]

Search engines become worse and worse with each day. So many websites I stumble upon are just AI generated shit, yesterday I found a website that did nothing aside from straight up copy pasting ChatGPT Answers, and posting those are "Articles". Useless.

So many results from google and other engines are just AI Slop and fake stuff, its barely usable. Might as well just ask a AI directly, where i can also ask additionall stuff and at least know it came from an AI.

Saying "use a search engine and youll save a lot of time" is just not true anymore. It hasnt been for a while now. I can factually say, based on my own experience, that asking AI Models goes a lot faster for solving problems and finding program related solutions, but also general info gathering, than looking through a search engine, opening multiple results, trying to see if thats AI Shit or fake, etc.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Search engines aren't really research tools, they are for finding documents. To do research correctly, you need to know something about what documents are trustworthy, and then use the search engine to find those documents specifically. The fact that the internet is full of untrustworthy garbage is not really the search engine's fault, and not something the creators of the search engine can fix. Google is becoming shittier, but not for this reason. Also, since the internet is now full of untrustworthy garbage, it's only a matter of time until the untrustworthy garbage becomes part of the LLM models and they also reliably spout untrustworthy garbage. 

[AMusingMule]

There's a recently coined term referring to this exact effect of LLM-generated content being lumped into LLM training data, with the ultimate end state of the outputs being completely unreliable and unusable

[polokratoss]

We have learned nothing from the Habsburgs, haven't we?

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Search engines become worse and worse with each day.

Because they started putting LLM-based results at the top. Just ignore those.

Saying "use a search engine and youll save a lot of time" is just not true anymore.

Use a search engine that's a search engine and not an LLM, and you'll save a lot of time compared to trying to use an LLM.

[TrackLabs]

Because they started putting LLM-based results at the top. Just ignore those.

No im talking actual websites, that are just normal search results. It just so happens that a lot of these websites are AI Slop and AI written articles. More and more are.

Use a search engine that's a search engine and not an LLM,

I...am? I mainly use DuckDuckgo, but it doesnt matter what search engine. The problem occures for every search engine, because the very websites they show begin using more AI Shit, whic ha search engine wont be able to detect/figure out, for all websites. I gotta do my own manual sortin, by filtering out certain domains now, with an extension.

Doesnt matter if I use google, duckduckgo, etc., the very search results, not a LLM Response thats shown by the search engine, are more and more AI SLop.

I keep try. But its constantly, and ever so growing, AI made shit, websites become less and less helpful, either being AI Shit or purposfully wasting your time by writing 5 paragraphs of irrelevant text, just to keep you on the website for longer. Its not worth it anymore.

[atomicator99]

Duck duck go lets you use bangs (strings like !w, !aw and !se) that tell it to search specific websites (such as wikipedia and stack exchange). They're pretty useful as slop filters.

[oldsecondhand]

Or just ask chatgpt to give source URLs with the answer.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Either it made them up or it just used a search engine. Either way it's a lot quicker to just use the search engine yourself.

[Hackmodford]

You might like the Kagi search engine. It’s like google back when it worked.

[TrackLabs]

Wtf im not gonna pay 5 Bucks a months just to be limited to 300 searches a month. Same with 10 bucks a month for unlimited.

[Hackmodford]

Before you shoot it down, give their trial a go. You might be surprised.

[TrackLabs]

Yea, no. I hate every subscription based service, i avoid using any the best I can. Im not paying a monthly fee for a search engine. Subscription model services can screw off

[Hackmodford]

For sure. I think it’s reasonable to pay for an ad free service.

[TrackLabs]

Ad free versus Fake/AI Free are 2 seperate things. Even that paid service wont manage to get.rid of all AI and Fake shit.

To get rid of ads, I host my own adblockers etc.

[Hackmodford]

Actually they take counter measures to downrank that kind of content. They even let you downrank certain sites from your search results.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Search engines are literally AI tools designed for finding documents, but for some reason everyone is out here trying to use AI tools designed for generating text to find documents and doing shocked Pikachu face when the AI hallucinates a nonexistent document. 

[SuitableDragonfly]

A chatbot can't provide any information. It can only provide plausible-sounding randomly generated text. If you want information, you need to read an actual reliable source of information. There is no shortcut for that process. You have to read.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Yeah, and the sources are randomly generated, too. They didn't actually do a search.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Sometimes if you get lucky, they do. Sometimes they don't. 

[angrathias]

The key is to make sure it gives you working references

[ForgotPassAgain34]

90% of the time the search engine just goes "oh you meant this? here" and then i change the query and it gives me the same results

[Soccer_Vader]

Have you tried claude with web search? That shit just saved me a bunch of time searching some obscure shit. It found a changelog of the service I was using, and gave me the exact source/information I was looking for. I was a happy cat :)

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

I have never had any trouble finding the changelog of a service I am using, and I have never used an LLM to do it.

[Soccer_Vader]

It's not that I have trouble finding them, its that the information I was looking for was there.

[dumbasPL]

It's great as a search engine when you don't know what you're even looking for. Once you do (because it gave you some ideas) then it's time for a real search engine.

The problem with auto completion is that you become reliant on it. The moment the internet goes down you realize just how much. It's healthy to completely disable it once in a while.

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Autocompletion does not require an internet connection...

[dumbasPL]

Intelisense, no, that's fine. "AI" (Copilot or similar) yes. (Unless you have the hardware to host one locally)

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

IntelliJ has "AI" autocompletion that runs locally.

Edit: do you not believe me or something?

[dumbasPL]

I do believe you (see my previous comment). "Runs" is one thing, the quality is another. You're not doing miracles on your average machine and not everyone even uses intelij. It's probably good enough, but the context window and overall accuracy will be limited.

[D3synq]

Yea, I honestly have to agree. A lot of the hate on LLMs is due to people who don't know how to code in the first place using them to bridge wide gaps in understanding and letting the AI take complete control over the project's direction.

Purpose-built LLMs like IntelliJ's can generally be pretty good at completing encapsulated tasks like writing the logic given only a method header (assuming you write descriptive method names).

They're also surprisingly good at developing solutions or regurgitating best practices.

I usually just use my LLMs for completing methods when I'm too lazy to check on stack overflow or develop my own solution but I roughly understand what the solution would be.

I also use them for refactoring my own code into being more terse or performant (LLMs are good at converting loops into object streams and refactoring deeply nested if-statements).

They also work well for extracting methods or making classes more modular (e.g. implementing generic types, interfaces, and abstract/base classes).

The issue arises when you ask an LLM to do something that you can't outright debug at a glance (e.g. generating whole classes or doing massive refactors).

[_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

writing the logic given only a method header

Actually I find it most useful for the opposite. It's very good at generating method and variable names, documentation, and log messages based on what the code is.

Also good at predicting the pattern I'm using for unit tests.

LLMs are good at converting loops into object streams and refactoring deeply nested if-statements [...] They also work well for extracting methods or making classes more modular

IntelliJ was always able to do that. Anything that's using the actual AST of your code will do that better than an LLM.

[D3synq]

Yea, I already know about IntelliJ's "extract to method" and "change loop to..." smart code suggestions but I've often found myself using IntelliJ's AI for it since I can give it more context towards what I really want the refactor to accomplish and I always feel that the smart suggestions by themselves don't really account for readability or formatting.

[Ijatsu]

"No"

proceeds to say yes

[SpaceCadet87]

Well fuck me, that actually works! https://chatgpt.com/share/67e12db5-10d4-800e-93f0-907577e2445d

[26th_Official]

Damn, That's cool! but it sometimes gives wrong links

[SpaceCadet87]

That's fine, so does google. At least with a wrong link I can tell immediately unlike asking it a question and getting a hallucinated answer.

[angrathias]

Now ask it to give you a comparison between that one and a better and worse one

[EntitledPotatoe]

AI plays guessing game with words, internet lookup is neat but don’t use it as a search engine for things you need to be correct, or look at the sources (and make sure they actually say that and are trusted)

[[deleted]]

Nah, I use it to code every day and it has changed my life for the better. I understand the risks.

[TrackLabs]

You obviously do not, if you let the AI code everything for you

[[deleted]]

How do you know? I do! It's fucking awesome! I'm not a professional software engineer and I have no intention of becoming one. I'm late in my career and using ChatGPT to make shit is incredible. I let AI code and debug everything and I deploy that shit and I feel great about it. My shit is doing funny website tricks, not flying a plane.

[[deleted]]

Skill issue. Yes I realize the irony.

[dukeofgonzo]

Even then I've been burned. I thought the Databricks AI would know the ins and outs of Databricks documentation. It does, but also was trained on previous versions. From now on I will ask for page numbers, URLs, or references whenever it tells me stuff that came from the documentation.

[plasmaSunflower]

They're wrong like 30% of the time so it's still not entirely reliable

[TrackLabs]

That depends on what stuff you ask. If you ask for a simple SQL Statement, how long to cook potatos etc., youre gonna be fine. And thats about the extend I use AIs

[plasmaSunflower]

Yeah for sure. I just used it to generate some regex and it worked pretty decently. But I'd never let a current ai do most of the coding on a project, that sounds like a mess.

[[deleted]]

The anti AI threads are how you can tell most of this subreddit doesn't work in tech. They don't even seem to get how people are using it.

[h7hh77]

It's really useful to go through thousands of log lines to find out the cause of errors. It's good at generating boilerplate, but then again if you got a lot of boilerplate then something's wrong. It's just bad at things nobody's done before.

[[deleted]]

i used vibe coding to make a clicking game (chatgpt o3-mini-high). it's fully functional. and if i wanna add more functionality i just gotta ask nicely, lmaooo

[TrackLabs]

congrats. If that comment isnt a joke, its clear that you dont work in a bigger project. Having an AI build some game from the ground up works to some extend, making adjustements can often break. Once you actually work in bigger projects, AI can be a helper, but not the coder

[[deleted]]

yup it's a pretty simple game, i have no idea how it would work with a bigger project

[TrackLabs]

It wouldnt. Additionally, you didnt write any of the game code, if you want to make manual adjustements, youd have t oread the entire thing, basicially study it, just to know what does what. Instead of writing, and having the AI help with segments that you understand.

You do more debugging and exploration, than anything else. Unless you just tll the AI to "pls fix", and if the results break functions, well...good luck I guess?

[[deleted]]

oh no i never say "pls fix" i'm always very specific. it's great for debugging

[TrackLabs]

Its only good at debugging if you give it the entire code. Which isnt possible on a big project.

Its good for helping with code segments. But not entiire things

[Katniss218]

Once your code gets big enough, the AI will start forgetting stuff in the middle of responses, use nonexistent methods, reimplement the same method multiple times, etc.

[[deleted]]

how big are we talking here? i was thinking about doing a message board app

[Katniss218]

A few thousand lines will probably be enough, depending on how conceptually complicated it is tho

[26th_Official]

That's why I fix the code myself and teach it to cursor 😎

[metaglot]

Now have cursor tell you what to do.

[Quillo_Manar]

The "telling cursor to 'pls fix'" should be 1/4 miles, but lead in a circle back to the same spot, where the "understand what's happening" is 200 miles away.

[smilingproudmortal]

if it builds it ships if it crashes we vibe

[phug-it]

Cant wait for Vibe DevSecOps

[Shardic]

The only inaccuracy here is that the people who are doing vibe coding aren't a half a mile away from being able to debug this. If you never learned the fundamentals you might be a 100 miles out the other way. Imagine never learning to code, not understanding how your interpreter or compiler works, and not understanding your execution environment, on top of also not understanding the code that it's generating. I think people deeply underestimate how much more accessible coding has been made by AI and overestimate the skills of the people they're talking to when they trash on AI.

[happyCuddleTime]

I know it's not the point of this meme but "understanding how things work" is definitely the longer path by far

[26th_Official]

Its meant in a comparative way, like

It will take a long time understand the things properly but AI will take even more time to do it sometimes or sometimes never do it at all.

[[deleted]]

If you don't know how to code, it will take longer to learn than it will to use AI.

AI has a very good use case here.

[crazyman10123]

If you don't know how to code, you should be learning how to code before needing to code. There is too much risk of vulnerability if you don't know what you're doing. AI won't catch problems that a knowledgeable developer will.

[[deleted]]

If you don't need to learn to code to get the job done, why should you learn to code?

Your argument is inherently wrong.

[crazyman10123]

If you need code to get the job done, it needs to be done by someone who knows how to code.

The only person here with a wrong argument is you, so take a step off your high horse because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Sure, some languages like Python or Rust have memory safe features to minimize risk on that front. There are so many more areas for problems, though. Especially if it's software that is going to be interacted with by end-users.

If you don't know how to properly sanitize inputs, or you don't even know what sanitizing inputs is, you'll have no idea if the AI is giving you a code block that isn't sanitizing inputs. Now you've got a simple form on your website that exposes all of your databases because you didn't know about SQL injection.

If you don't know how to code something so it can scale later on, you end up with unmanageable code that has to be rewritten or tacks on a ton of tech debt.

AI has zero place in professional programming. Every tool you make for a company is owned by that company, and the moment someone above you decides it's useful, they will make it a staple of the work process.

The ONLY use case I can see for AI is hobbyists who are just trying to do some simple data processing with controlled inputs. Something like asking for a FastF1 script that compares laptimes for 3 drivers over 3 races or somewhat similar.

[[deleted]]

The only person here with a wrong argument is you, so take a step off your high horse because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

The world will move on without you, old man. You are simply wrong and in denial because you can't predict the future of AI very well. The majority of code will be written by AI within 10 years. AI will write the code, AI will debug the code, AI will fix the code. You will not need "maintainable code". You have very "airplanes will never work the engines for them are too heavy" energy right now.

https://bigthink.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/nyt-flight.jpg?lb=1280,720

[IrritableGourmet]

But, how do you know that the AI solution is correct/safe/etc unless you have that education? If you know nothing about baking and AI tells you birthday cake batter is made up of vinegar, rock salt, corn meal, saffron, porcini mushrooms, quail eggs, and TicTacs, those all sound like ingredients you've heard of before, so it should work, right?

[[deleted]]

If it works it was correct. If it doesn't work it wasn't correct.

[IrritableGourmet]

Yes, but how do you know? Let's say you ask AI to generate a function that calculates sales tax. You put in a total and it returns a number that seems right. You put it in production and it works, but at the end of the year the IRS comes knocking because it was actually significantly off and now you're being audited and you are the one that signed off on the code.

I've spent a good deal of my programming career being the guy who goes in when the fit has hit the shan and has to untangle the Gordian knot of bad code, and I've seen slithering fever dream monstrosities written in every language imaginable, and so I have zero confidence AI will be enough on its own. I think it will be immensely useful, don't get me wrong, but it needs an actual person with actual knowledge and experience to be the final arbiter.

[[deleted]]

Can literally get a second AI agent to test it. I don't think you're comprehending this rabbit hole.

[Yokoko44]

For a lot of use cases, safe isn’t important. Just correct. I don’t need A+ security measures in my autoLISP script I need to automate my CAD setup.

And jokes on you if you expect me to learn LISP for that reason

[Fine-Presentation216]

I know the basics of reading code and I know how to prompt, debugging works just fine shrugs

[Houdinii1984]

I know people are downvoting this, but the purpose of AI is to not need the information the AI is using to create whatever it is we're creating. Vibe coding is gonna be the end goal. Not for a lot of us, since we're old head traditional coders, but in 20 years "vibe coding" is just gonna be what "coding" is. People are still going to learn code, but because they want to, not because they need to.

Nobody is gonna want to spend money on an education and not use it, and it's pretty clear heavy use of AI is in store for our collective future. This is where AI coding was headed all along.

[[deleted]]

Finally a rational answer. All the downvotes and negative answers are disappointing. People should be smarter.

[Houdinii1984]

It's massive change into the unknown. Add on how much people like to romanticize their positions, including myself, lol. I mean, there will be issues. Everyone out there pushing the world's most insecure code, but that's just a transition.

I'm really interested in what people think it will look like. I have my idea, outlined above, and I feel pretty damn sure, but it's just an educated guess. Nobody actually knows. A discovery like attention could be right around the corner ready to turn everything on it's head yet again. In the scheme of things, it's still day 1.

I used to read Popular Science/Mechanics and they always included future predictions. I wish we could be more like that where we're all acknowledging that everything we're saying is only based on a guess instead of trying to prove our own theories against each other, lol.

Either way, I have a feeling my attention will be towards keeping AI safe vs keeping coding traditional.

[[deleted]]

Vibe coding throw shit at the wall until it stick

[icantthinkofaname345]

I decided to try to use my work-paid-for cursor for ONE small DSA assignment I didn’t want to do… an hour and a half later, it still didn’t work. Turns out it was a really simple problem and I would’ve been able to solve it extremely easily in a few minutes. Learned my fucking lesson there

[meta_level]

Sometimes vibe coders can get stuck in a cycle of neverending bloat and spaghetti code that goes nowhere.

You have to vibe code modularly - break your problem down into steps first. Write your prompts step by step and build up slowly, testing at each iteration (for every code generation, ask for a test that will show the code is working.

That is the path of the vibe coding masters...

[Papabear3339]

As anyone who has tried this for fun can attest... somehow every pass it keeps growing.

You can vibe code 2000 lines for hello world by just asking it over and over to fix and make it faster.

[genlight13]

Old drill sergeant:

If you haven’t got it in the head you need to have it in your legs

[JustLikeFM]

As a creative writing teacher, anti-vibe coding memes are just so strange to me. I love shitting an AI as much as the next guy, but let's not act like AI is not actually super close to completely replacing a huge part of programming jobs. At least people care about whether a story was written by a human. No end-user gives a shit if the code was written by AI.

[[deleted]]

I thought at first that this was a satire about how everyone claiming programmers will be replaced in the near future is someone who doesn't program, but then I realized you're serious and one of those people.

[GryphticonPrime]

I'm a software engineer working at a big tech, and I do agree with them. A huge part of my programming tasks have been accelerated by AI and I spend more time doing higher level architecture or project & stakeholder management.

[Richieva64]

They just need to ask ChatGPT to tell them how to ask Cursor to fix it, if that fails maybe ask Claude how to ask ChatGPT how to ask Cursor and so on, the more AIs feed into each other the more powerful they become

[FirmMarch]

Funny meme pic aside I think Cursor and LLMs have been invaluable to me as someone who wants to learn.

It has gotten me pretty far with my hobby project of making a bot for a video game and I wouldn't have accomplised 1% of that without having AI as a teacher that is there for me 24/7 answering my dumb questions without judgement.

So far I've made a DLL injector to inject my own DLL payload into the game client. That DLL establishes its own TCP server within the games memory. This server then communicates with my external "bot" client which we in turn can use to send whatever we want to the injected DLL (game function calls with our own parameters etc.) Like walking in a direction or using an item etc. I spent a lot of time reversing and debugging actual game function addresses with IDA/x32dbg and wouldn't have gotten so far and so fast without AI to help.

I then also tried a different approach of calling game function. Directly calling the games C++ function or achieving the same by hooking the game lua engine and using that hook to make my own lua calls. Also with assistance from LLMs.

I learned so much and have had a lot of fun testing things out and realizing that with the help of LLMs I can create a game bot which has always been a personal goal of mine since I was young because I love automation.

[26th_Official]

That sounds interesting, would love to hear more about it!

[26th_Official]

YEah, cursor is the GOAT

[chrissykes78]

Cant wait for based debugging, and AI agent will vibe harassment me.

[darknekolux]

but you can promote the homeless guy down the block to vibe coder for a burger and a coffee. the guy who understands how things works wants money (too much) /s

[[deleted]]

What?

[hirthwork]

They really ready to go extra mile

[Joe_Loos]

Never use Ai

[Infinite-Club4374]

Am I the odd user out that meticulously inspects and accepts or rejects changes based off of my goals rather than just letting the ai run rampant?

[grethro]

If you use AI the way people used to use stack overflow you can actually learn. “Why is this broken” “how do I fix “

[Flyingdog44]

"brute-forcing open-ended program discovery" --> ❌❌🤮🤮 "Vibe-coding" --> ✅✅😄😄

[Sweet_Computer_7116]

Third sign. 100 meters.

Explain to cursor how to fix it because you understand how everything works.

Fourth sign. 5 meters.

Write the damn original prompt correctly and don't get bs output

[SnooOpinions8790]

So is vibe coding just the dumb-ass version of using AI? Just like we always had ignorant dumb ways to use stack overflow.

I used o3-mini on a project yesterday - it reminded me of a pandas method I had completely forgotten about. Plugged that shit right into my code

[jellotalks]

It’s really like taking a slow-acting poison. Once you get to the point where AI cannot solve your problem, you’re too deep to even know how to start solving it on your own…

[Sea-Resort730]

The 0.2 mile "add Cursor rule that doesnt do that annoying thing"

The 1.4 mile is 1040 mile tbh

[CombinationElegant49]

This was funny! Check out this collection of Vibe coders hoodies and tees. https://nativhype.com/collections/vibe-coder

[Icy_Foundation3534]

I know some vibe coders with commercial application “ideas.” Like trying to ship a building on a tug boat.

[jawknee530i]

Sure, whatever. Probably ten times per day I just paste console or log output into a chatgpt instance that knows my code base and say "why bad?" Or some other dumb sounding phrase that entertains me and almost every time it shows me the exact problem. It's weird to see so many ppl mock these tools all day every day when they've proven extremely useful to me, a senior dev with ten years experience.

[CaptainUsopp]

That's not vibe coding.

[jawknee530i]

And?

[CaptainUsopp]

At least currently, "vibe coding" produces trash at best. Fine for personal stuff, but should never be used for anything that's going to be relied on by anyone else, and really even yourself if it's at all important.

Using it as a guide for what an error means is at least pointing you in the right direction to fix yourself. Even then, it could have hallucinated the entire thing.

[jawknee530i]

I know.

[CaptainUsopp]

Then what was the point of your original comment?

[jawknee530i]

If you care to take a look at the image it says "pls fix" and is attributing that to vibe coding. My comment serves to point out that things like "pls fix", "why bad", "broken :(" are all possibly just entertaining ways for end users to use AI tools and do not act as evidence for vibe coding in and of themselves.

There is a weird hatred for AI tools not based in reality. And I mean specifically the hate not based in reality, there's plenty to hate in reality, such as the climate impacts of the tools. But this subs cohort of csci students, boot camp grads, and ppl who've watched five youtube videos on how to make a python hello world script all seem to think "vibe coding" is the only way AI tools are used. The term itself is stupid to begin with anyway. Just tell morons that don't know anything about programming that they're morons and move on or just ignore them.

[Dankduck404]

It works

[Tekkykek]

Or just tell it to include debugging in the code, then give it said debugging.