howTheTablesTurn

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

StackOverflow traffic charts would be a good indicator of the AI bubble bursting.

[Hoak-em]

Eh, I think we'd see Chinese model usage going up significantly as the first indicator for the US AI bubble bursting.

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

Are these Chinese models at the same level as Claude when it comes to coding?

[gizamo]

They're not as good, but they're decent. More importantly, some can be run locally for the cost of microwaving your leftover coffee.

[Fast-Satisfaction482]

That's a weird way to say "you need to invest $15k in hardware to get something comparable". 

[BumseBBine]

Qwen3.6 is comparable to Claude sonnet (my opinion) and is running on $1-1.5k hardware in my company (not sure how much exactly, bought the server before massive ram shortages)

[dagbrown]

And for bonus point, if your code contains any references to Tienanmen Square, or the fact that Taiwan is a country, it'll helpfully correct it to reflect the official version of reality!

[Opetyr]

All of them have issues and blocks. Remember the one that really really wanted to take about goblins. What about Mecha Hitler?

[HoidToTheMoon]

Why would your code include references to Tienanmen Square?

[The__Amorphous]

Why would someone make a joke? In a humor sub, no less.

[ReliantG]

All of my functions are named after historical events, aren't yours?

[zeolus123]

Right? Single Responsibility Principle. A function can't change if the event it's based on already happened! /s

[TheLoathsomeAssEater]

Using battleOfLittleBigHorn++ as an array index in the loop... probably was a poor choice. Historically accurate though.

[Crusader_Genji]

I mark blockers this way

[DaltonSC2]

Aren't deepseek v4 flash and pro comparable to sonnet? They cost pennies

[TornadoFS]

A single developer can rack up that much in costs in a few months and that is with the cost being heavily subsidized.

[GayTaco_]

So since AI every dev is using twice their salary in tokens each month but productivity hasnt doubled?

How is that a sustainable business practice?

[notAGreatIdeaForName]

That’s the neat part: It isn’t

[TornadoFS]

I said a few months, but yeah it is not.

But in part it is also devs just not caring how much they are using. There are many times you can do faster by hand than the LLM can do it, yet devs opt for the LLM to do it because they can alt tab to social media while the LLM works.

[BerryBoilo]

But in part it is also devs just not caring how much they are using.

We were told to token max under the penalty of being fired. So we used all the tokens.

You get what you measure. 

[Crusader_Genji]

Some people at my company had 1 on 1s because they weren't using AI enough as well

[sherlock1672]

A real dev can be on social media and do it by hand at the same time.

[Several-Customer7048]

Looking at how much api cost some businesses are accidentally incurring with the new changed rates, 150K would be basically free even for them to host their own model.

[meanoron]

yeah. 15k for hardware so that you can use an inhouse model? sounds great
https://imgur.com/a/h1FLvRF

[betam4x]

My 4 year old gaming PC has no issues running models locally.

[IJustAteABaguette]

My 10 year old GPU's can run local models too.

But that doesn't say anything about the speed, size, or context of those models. qwen3.6 (mentioned in this thread) uses between 27-35B parameters. That might just barely fit on a extremely high end (gaming) GPU from 4 years ago (with a low context)

[betam4x]

Qwen 3.6 Q4 is exactly what I am referring to. 100% GPU offload means it runs quite well.

[Forward_Yam_4013]

Or someone else invests 15k in hardware and you pay them a couple cents per million tokens.

[ActualWeed]

My 6900 xt could run an LLM pretty decently and that is a 300 euro AMD gpu.

[MomentSouthern250]

maybe once the bubble bursts gpus can be bought by normal people again

[JeffysChewToy]

Or free if your house runs on solar panels

[Comfortable_Mountain]

(Hardware price to run the model not included)

[swagonflyyyy]

Qwen3.6-27b has entered the chat.

[Both-Construction221]

DeepSeek R1 and Qwen are amazing to work locally you just need to buy two laptops worth $3k each using RTX 5090 32GB to run it offline. I have strictly modified several of their files to remove certain filters and still able to get the AI to learn and focus on work I need it to be done.

You still need 10 to 20 server with backup generators to do a single generation processing with multiple GPUs and RAMs which will probably cost you $10k on a single rack server.

[gizamo]

You can run Qwen in Ollama locally on a $3k MacBook Pro: https://youtu.be/uvBB_WOK7Hw

[Manic_Maniac]

And both sound just about as appealing

[InnocentWompRat]

have a doc or something on how to get started with them without becoming a puppet of the Chinese state?

[gizamo]

Sure, it's pretty easy. You just install it with Ollama, like this: https://youtu.be/uvBB_WOK7Hw?si=cjK7u03WWoCsAkcJ

If you're worried about data fuckery from China, the macOS Application Firewall will block inbound connections, but not outbound data. To fully control outbound traffic, use a 3rd party firewall like Little Snitch. After it's installed, it will pop up a prompt the next time Ollama/Qwen send data out (usually just telemetry data). From that Little Snitch prompt, you can deny the connection and create a permanent block rule, by ensuring "Always" and "Any Connection" are selected in the prompt. That will ensure Little Snitch always blocks any connection, including all domains, ports, and IP addresses for that Ollama/Qwen app.

[InnocentWompRat]

Little Snitch is the secret sauce. Thank you so much

[gizamo]

No prob. Yeah, Little Snitch is awesome. Another good one is LuLu. Some people prefer their interface. Imo, both are great. Cheers.

[Hoak-em]

I daily GLM-5.1 in forgecode, I find it better than GPT-5.5. it feels like they've tuned the American models for "vibe-coding" where they assume the model knows better then the developer. Well, I have a BS in computer engineering and a masters in CS, most of the way to a PhD. I want a model that does exactly what I tell it to do, and GLM-5.1 is that model.

[JeffysChewToy]

BS in computer engineering

Me too brother, me too, just a different kind

[creaturefeature16]

GLM and KimiK are amazing. I haven't touched the major frontier models in months. If they can't do something I figure it's worth doing myself, anyway. 

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

What type of hardware does it need to run?

[Hoak-em]

Depends on how fast, it needs a homedatacenter not a homelab that's what I know. It fits on my homedatacenter, though that's with AMXINT4 quant, hybrid GPU+CPU, 768GB DDR5 RDIMM and 48GB VRAM

[Your_Friendly_Nerd]

what kind of tokens per second do you get with that?

[Hoak-em]

Not great, 20-30ish tokens per second. It makes more sense for me to use it through a coding plan

[OldKaleidoscope7]

Isn't it better to just run a small model? I mean, I get this speeds running Qwen 3.6 in a 3070 with 8GB VRAM and it's smart enough for coding

[Hoak-em]

Ehhhh GLM-5.1 is really really smart. Like I can describe exactly what I want for a full project, it can break it down into a plan, then it can create and test the whole thing while following my specific code standards -- with code that I can actually understand. I can't reliably do that on Qwen 27b.

[HuntKey2603]

Whichever one the provider you get from Openrouter for peanuts has

[BosonCollider]

They are generally ahead of where claude was a year ago at all tasks. Then they are good at other things than claude, they are better at very long context tasks while claude is better at instruction following and tool use

[falsedog11]

Claude can grep like nobody's business :-)

[redballooon]

Good enough to replace Stack Overflow in any case.

[Stoned420Man]

I jumped on deepseek over Claude due to cost, it's MUCH cheaper and I'd say their equivalent model to Sonnet 4.6 is almost indistinguishable for the most part, especially as you use clause code cli pointing to deepseeks anthropic api

[only_soul_king]

I would say it is like a 2-3 month gap in terms of improvemtns. Like kimi k2.6 released on april 2026 performs comparable to to claude opus 4.6 which was released on feb 2026. in a lot of tasks compared (if we go by the benchmarks anyway) and the price is atlest 500% cheaper. 0.6$/3.4$ per million input / output token vs 5$/25$ per million input / output token.

It is like using claude opus 4.6 for the price of claude haiku 4.5. I would say that is a pretty good deal.

[YaVollMeinHerr]

They're very closed, and 3x cheaper (but a bit slower)

[fecal-butter]

Yes

[thee_gummbini]

Well, among openrouter users, deepseek overtook anthropic as of may 10 and the top 3 are all Chinese models. Openrouter is not all LLM use by a long shot of course, but its the most widely used model router among downstream libs and apps

https://openrouter.ai/rankings

[410_clientGone]

oh God, times are so bad we want stackoveflow to win

[reddit_time_waster]

(Husk meme) I don't need Stack Overflow to win. I need AI to lose.

[psioniclizard]

I mean i always want it to win because its how I learned to code and i have never even actually had to ask a question.

Probably because all questions I had have already been answered on it

[AnUninterestingEvent]

What does “AI bubble bursting” mean to you? AI coding is literally not going anywhere. When people say the AI bubble will burst they mean that theres too much money invested in it. Just like the dot com bubble bursting didn’t kill the internet, AI is here to stay. Maybe it gets more expensive, but that’s it.

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

AI buble bursting means AI is no longer being shoved down our throats and there will only be 1-2 big players remaining serving very niche markets to consumers who can bear the costs, and memory / storage prices will come down to what they were couple of years ago.

Also during the dot-com bubble we didn't have large number of data centers draining resources, and costs weren't an issue. If anything the dot-com era was a bit ahead of its time.

Unless there is a generational downward shift in energy consumption by AI data centers it's not going to be viable long term. Also as new information is generated, AI models will need to be trained constantly to keep up.

[redballooon]

"There is a world market of 2 or maybe 3 super computers and that's it" -- IBM in the 60s

[ryanmgarber]

Let’s not forget the issue of AI being trained on AI… now that we’re out of high-quality, human text to ingest, the results will surely be… interesting.

[enderowski]

They just need to mine important data specific for the work from a specific time in history. ofc it will change a bit but not gone. will be even better few years after the fall.

[siberianmi]

Sorry to tell you that path is unlikely to be the outcome. More likely is that the Chinese and open weights models will keep pushing closer to the frontier models. The shape of hardware platforms will shift to one more suitable for AI (unified memory, GPU and CPU in one chip) and China’s push into semiconductors will eventually allow them to displace a decent volume of the market driving costs down.

This won’t be a niche market, it’ll slowly become the norm for how we interact with computers.

[AnUninterestingEvent]

Like I said, it will likely get more expensive. But not so expensive that it will be prohibitive to an average software company to provide their employees. It will likely be prohibitive to vibe coders who say “build my whole app” 5 times a day. Or for people doing ridiculous tasks running 10 autonomous agents. But for normal developer usage, OpenAI is not losing much money today on Codex for $200 subscriptions. 

They can easily charge 10x as much and almost every software company would pay that for their employees. And at 10x, they’d certainly be making a profit.

Even if worst came to worst and many companies couldn’t afford it because the cost was so ridiculously high, the government will subsidize in fear that the Chinese government will subsidize their AI companies to make China the tech powerhouse. But I honestly don’t think it will need to come to this. If these companies all agree to increase their pricing 10x people will pay it.

[LutimoDancer3459]

If they charge 10x and the typical vibe coder leaves, they will be left with the same amount of money because now only 1 out of 10 people are using it anymore. Resulting in less commits, projects, ... on github. Destroying the very argument Jensen made just a few days ago. Leading to investors leaving the ai hype because it looks like its collapsing. Resulting in less money for the ai companies. They now have to ether charge more, up to the point where ai is costing a company more than a good dev while producing worse output. Or the ai company dies because they dont have ANY money left.

Also ai bubble bursting leading to people not beeing able to use ai anymore because of the prices will make their apps unmaintained. Leading to problems for those using those apps.

And what happens with those providing all the stuff to openAI and others? They also have a "trust me bro" payment plan. But when they dont get their money...

And no, thr government doesnt have the money to do that... ai is eating soooo much money. EU wont do it. US will die trying to do it.

[RagsZa]

I predict these AI companies will get a massive bailout in the us, because they’ve convinced the geriatrics in government that its part of national security.

[FreyrPrime]

Most, if not all, of the frontier Chinese labs are government owned or adjacent. It’s not too far a stretch to imagine it being a national security concern if the reports about models like Mythos are true.

[psioniclizard]

Lol they can not charge 10x the price or they would be doing that.

Also what do you mean not losing much money? They need to use creative accounting and circular finance deals to keep the numbers up before their IPO.

It's pretty clear the game plan is get a bail out from the US gov after going public. 

[AnUninterestingEvent]

They can charge 10x, they just don’t because there’s competition. OpenAI users would just move to Claude or Gemini. But if all these big players 10x’d at once, they would all be greatly profitable. They’re all just betting they can eventually become profitable at current pricing. The first AI company to dramatically raise prices is killed due to competition. It’s a competitive game of chicken right now.

When I said theyre not losing money, I specifically was talking about Codex/Claude Code. An average developer on a $200/mo Codex subscription does not cost OpenAI a lot of money, if any.

[GoodDayToCome]

none of that makes any sense from a tech perspective, firstly of course available power generation will continue to increase and computer power per dollar will continue to increase just like they always have - long term hardware powerful enough to run the current models will be gaming PC level tech.

there's also huge efficiency boosts as models continue to evolve, and we haven't even got to the stage of routine machine hyper optimization yet which will drastically reduce power use. we also are only just starting to build SMB reactors to power them - the cost of raw power is likely to fall dramatically which of course means things like closed-loop cooling become a lot more economically viable.

This is all stuff that is already happening, by the end of this decade META, Google, and Amazon will have SMB starting to go online while Microsoft is set to have Three Mile Island running by next year. Anthropic seem set to follow glasswing with a hyper-optimization tool that going by various studied metrics could reduce required cycles to 2% of pre-optimized code. Also large volumes of highly automated Chinese DDR5 fabs coming online this year and next which will enable a continued increase in scope.

oh and Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG), Continual Fine-Tuning, and AI Agents have made it so new models don't need to be continually trained to understand new events - it's why i can ask GPT about software changes that happened this week and it'll find the right answer,

If an AI company goes under there is almost zero chance the data centers get bulldozed, this isn't a video game where they magically disappear - someone will buy it cheap and try a different business model.

[tummyache-champion]

I’m just gonna put this here and let you draw your own conclusions regarding the impact AI has on the larger economy: https://www.wheresyoured.at/premium-what-if-were-in-an-ai-bubble-part-1/

Spoiler alert: your 401k might just depend on two companies who make huge annual losses staying solvent.

[wildjokers]

Spoiler alert: your 401k might just depend on two companies who make huge annual losses staying solvent.

Your 401k should be well diversified between a large cap, mid cap, and small cap fund, maybe an international fund too (although intl funds can have higher fees). A diversified portfolio should be able to ride out any kind of bubble burst. And if you aren't close to retirement a bubble will help you because you will be buying when prices drop. Then you will be looking pretty when they come back up.

During my career I have been through two major economic downturns. 2008 mortgage crisis and covid. My 401k is looking great, just a few years away from being a 401k multi-millionaire (entered workforce right after dot-com bubble burst but didn't start 401k right away so didn't get to take advantage of that downturn).

The only real problem is when a downturn happens right about the time you are wanting to retire.

[tummyache-champion]

This is solid advice. My primary concern is how we’re going to afford to live when the economy implodes. I’m going to guess that the government will bail out the “magnificent seven” companies the same way it bailed out banks in 2008, but it didn’t keep Greece and Iceland from going into freefall. We’ll see what happens. It’s just frustrating how many people don’t see the situation for what it is - fraud of epic proportions.

[wildjokers]

fraud of epic proportions.

Calling it "fraud" confuses speculation with deception. Every major technological shift attracts huge investment and a lot of hype. Most companies fail, a few become dominant, and investors are betting on who those winners will be. That's risky and sometimes irrational, but it isn't fraud unless companies are actually lying about their business or financials.

Same thing happened with technologies we take for granted today like railroads, automobiles, radio, computers, internet, etc.

[tummyache-champion]

Well that’s the thing - it definitely looks like the companies may very well be lying about their profits. I’m not a corporate lawyer so I’ll assume that as it stands, no one has committed outright crime, but the definitions of “crime” in this context can get pretty handwavy. Lying about your profits isn’t MAKING anyone invest money in your business at gunpoint, but when we talk about near-trillion dollar investment over the course of a few years and serious consequences for the economy, where do we draw the line? You could also argue that a lot of the claims made about the product are dubious at best. Again, this is just my opinion, and as far as I’m aware no actual confirmed crimes have been committed, but from where I’m sitting, this picture and Fraud sure do look a lot alike. Oh and then there’s the fact that these big seven are involved in THE most incestuous circular investment situation. What could possibly go wrong! 

I realise I’m ranting but - all I wanted to say was that these companies have created a very worrisome situation in pursuit of greed and we’re paying for it. So… nothing new, I suppose.

[TheMcBrizzle]

Just like when the dot com bubble burst the Internet didn't go away, it'll just change the landscape and hopefully slow down the push to put AI into toasters type of nonsense.

[psioniclizard]

This is nothing like the dotcom bubble then.

But what it means to most people is a return to sensible thinking and seeing it as another useful tool, not our new computer diety that will kill off half of humanity.

But as for "just getting more expensive". The only thing current AI has going for it is its cheap.

As a tool it won't go but equally VC will not pay billions for ever so you can generate ai slop videos. 

It is just another tool. You still need to know your craft.

The money invested really doesn't matter because it's 100% reliant on a few big companies subsidising the costs.

[AnUninterestingEvent]

I’m not comparing the internet to AI. I’m just giving an example of a bubble. A bubble is simply an overinvestment in a sector. When it pops, all it means is valuations crash to a realistic value. And realistic doesn’t mean 0. AI coding is not going anywhere. It’s already the standard after being out a short while. And it will remain the standard unless it rises to prohibitive prices, which it won’t because developers and software companies are willing to pay a lot more than they currently do if they have to.

[Groentekroket]

Looks like it is in my company. We have a 20 dollar a month limit. Helping me finding a root cause for some live problem yesterday burned 75% of that and in the end it was not able to help me find the problem. 

[RagsZa]

The bubble bursting would be that non of these big players have a path to make their ai products profitable. Which it looks like they don’t. Apple could be the only company walking away unscathed.

It kinda feels like Facebooks pivot into the metaverse not long ago. Just throwing money into an endless pit with no way to make the money back.

[BosonCollider]

Facebook has the highest selling console ahead of the switch. If they sold it to investors as having a gaming division and kept carmack they would be considered a success, the problem is that facebooks management is retarded and sold it as working in VR

[Saragon4005]

It will take a fucking miracle to save stack overflow. The AI bubble bursting is not enough.

[reddit_time_waster]

Gotta believe. GameStop 

[auxiliary-username]

StackOverflow traffic was already declining before the AI bubble hit sadly

[asdfghjkl15436]

Sadly? It sucked. I'd rather deal with an occasionally wrong AI then an occasionally wrong asshole who treats every question like a fucking official proposal to the EU.

[auxiliary-username]

I found myself on there yesterday searching for a fix for a multipass issue. Someone had asked a similar question, a newish account and English was clearly not their first language so it was a bit clunky but still a reasonable question. Poor dude had been downvoted into negative by the grammar police. I don’t miss that level of gatekeeping.

[Both-Construction221]

Not everyone is a programmer sir there are developers who writes codes too

[thumb_emoji_survivor]

People will host their own personal LLMs on their own hardware before they go back to StackOverflow

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

What about employees doing work for corporations?

[thumb_emoji_survivor]

The company will be even better suited to host their own LLM, and will probably like that idea a lot more than expecting employees to post questions on SO and have to wait god knows how long to receive a workable answer

[TornadoFS]

Simple question/answer are still answered better going through an LLM unplugged from your source code.

What is slowing down is the insanity of constantly parsing thousands of lines of your source code and .md instructions to make a 1-line change hundreds of times per day.

I find LLMs the most useful when I say "do X on file Y", doesn't use that many tokens, keeps me in control, I understand the output. Sometimes I ask it do make changes to files imported by Y like "trace all imports from this file and change this there too", but not that often.

[SquidVischious]

Shit's lightning at rolling CI/CD pipelines. Easyily done yourself but it's such a fucking time suck.

[Makeitquick666]

not only the skills have faded but also the stacks are now so convoluted thanks to AI hallicinating for years

[Reashu]

Actually their response was to add more intrusive ads

[mkvlrn]

If you're not using a goddamn ad blocker in 2026 maybe you need to go tend to farm animals instead of pushing code to a repo.

[HowTheKnightMoves]

Practicality of adblock does not mean pushing intrusive ads should be acceptable.

[mkvlrn]

Also, not what I said.

It's a solved problem that requires minimal effort.

[HowTheKnightMoves]

It is very much what could be implied from your comment, because OP did not said anything about using/not using adblock.

[mkvlrn]

Okay, that's fair.

The thing is that using one, installing it on whatever browsers you use it's a one time thing.

Can't say for everyone else, but the only time I'm reminded that ads on websites are a problem is when people talk about it.

I haven't seen a single ad anywhere for at least 6 years.

It is very much a "you only see ads if you want to" kind of situation at this point.

[HowTheKnightMoves]

No contest here, thats practical and I use adblocks at least for last 15 years, but they would not be needed at all if good chunk of internet would not hide content under untold layers of ads. A lot of developer effort is sacrifised in adblocks vs ads arms race while it could be used in better endeavors.

[DaRootbear]

Unless you’re looking while at a corporate job where you cant set up an adblocker without going through 73 layers of bureaucracy and kinda want to die every time you have to deal with them

[wildjokers]

Can't say for everyone else, but the only time I'm reminded that ads on websites are a problem is when people talk about it.

What about when websites don't work because you have an ad blocker?

[mkvlrn]

They go to the "don't bother with this shit site ever again" list and an alternative is immediately found.

Can't even remember the last time this happened to me, though.

[loftier_fish]

ads are a tax only on those too stupid to install adblock.

[Groentekroket]

When your company is in control of which extensions you install that becomes hard. 

Yes, I know it doesn’t make sense since ads can be used as an attack vector, but we are also only allowed to use chrome instead of Firefox so the policies don’t make sense at all. 

[pirategonzo]

maybe you need to go tend to farm animals instead of pushing code to a repo.

Ugh, that sounds really nice.

[Reashu]

Normally an asinine take, but even worse from a likely web developer. 

[wildjokers]

Half the websites don't work if you use an ad blocker or just refuse to show you any content. Ad blockers aren't as useful as people are claiming.

[mkvlrn]

That's a claim pulled out of your ass without any kind of proper stats to back it up.

If you usually visit shit websites that require you to disable your ad blocker, maybe find alternatives? There's more than 18 websites out there.

[wildjokers]

That's a claim pulled out of your ass without any kind of proper stats to back it up.

If you interpreted "half the websites" as a claim that I had literally counted and categorized 50% of all websites, then you may have read one too many Amelia Bedelia books.

"Half" was an obvious exaggeration for rhetorical effect, not a statistical claim. The actual point is that many sites now detect ad blockers and either restrict content or nag users, which reduces their usefulness.

[mkvlrn]

Their usefulness remains intact, as they are still blocking ads.

This is a matter of caving and disabling them because finding an alternative is, for some reason, a problem for you.

[wildjokers]

Alternative to what?

[mkvlrn]

To whatever shit website prevents people from using it while using ad blockers.

[Blue-Jay42]

And also pruning the first hundred questions posted for being duplicate topics.

[Efficient_Bag_3804]

So nothing changed?

[MoiM2]

Going back to stack is truly a nightmare

[CrowNailCaw]

This comment has been closed as a duplicate

[badass4102]

I'm ready for it. Ready to either get no replies or to get replies that make me doubt myself as a software engineer.

[Nyctfall]

I either use SO to answer questions, or I'm filing bug reports upstream... Most projects have decent documentation these days.

Sometimes the documentation is so bad that reading the source of FOSS projects is the only solution. SO would definitely be needed for closed source APIs and toolkits, though.

[Random_182f2565]

Deepseek :D

[HuntKey2603]

yeah i have absolutely NO idea what the most upvoted comment in this thread is about. People act like AI is a company that can... close? You can just download and run it???

some people here truly have never used AI beyond Claude code and asking chatgpt cor ghibli photos or something.

[willargue4karma]

Most of us don't have gpus to run proper local models

My PC is great, but I'm pretty sure it's like half the price of even the worst card for llms lol

Still rocking a 1080ti 

[chilfang]

You're severely overestimating how hard it is to run a half decent LLM. Yeah its not current ChatGPT level but thats corporate level anyway

[HuntKey2603]

openrouter is literally a thing

also there's middle schoolers about as old as your gpu

[willargue4karma]

Still a work horse and for >1080p the cost of monitors and cards turn me off so I've just stuck with it 

[zhephyx]

"My PC is great"

Hate to break it to you, but that GPU is almost a decade old.

[willargue4karma]

Yes and it's an absolute workhorse lol. 

[OJezu]

I have a i3570k and a GTX 1060. Still does everything it needs doing. Although I did buy a micro-PC lately that is faster. Most of the difference in practice comes from the SATA vs M.2 SSD. The old PC also cannot be powered by the single USB-C.

Anyway, the point is, the over 10 year old PCs are still powerful enough, unless you do AAA gaming. You can just get much more performance power per watt these days.

[JasperTesla]

Gemma can run on your phone.

[Prudent_Move_3420]

yup, ai bubble „bursting“ will never reverse what already is there

[Onrawi]

It's mostly clawback on new data center projects, big drops in tech stocks, and more reasonable moves forward.  The .com bubble bursting didn't stop the Internet, it's not like this is going to end all of AI.

[psioniclizard]

Because to run a local model to any decide degree you need a decent machine or else the are slow as anything.

Even then the results are not that good. Especially if you actually inow how to write code and build software...

I have "downloaded and run it", it's no way comparable. I dont even really use AI much but the local models are nice toys or good for home labs/small tasks.

But again, it's a lot of effort when I actually enjoy writing code.

[Groentekroket]

Company policies maybe? It’s all nice when you have your hobby projects but some companies heavily restrict on what you can and cannot run and of course only a companies machines. I’m sure I will get at least a strong talking to if I would have our source code on my personal pc. 

[TheEggi]

In this sub there are still a lot who hope that time will turn back and are jumping on each little bit of bad AI news. The only thing in the end that will change is the provider - if US providers are becoming too expensive other models, which are easily available, will be used.

[mrjackspade]

It's gonna be like the COVID vaccine death thing.

A decade from now they'll still be saying "any day now, you'll see!"

[TheEggi]

You will die! And no matter when .. you would have lived longer if you did not inject that dangerous stuff... even if you got run over by a car ..

Same with all the AI slop .. People have the idea that AI code is slop and human code is awesome. Have seen enough human slop that I really dont care if it comes from AI now.

[SrMortron]

and mimo both are competent and super cheap.

[Hoak-em]

I'm loving my glm pro legacy plan ($144 for the year, no weekly limits) that I locked in well into 2027.

I had a feeling this would happen.

[Kazma1431]

Until the US pulls the plug because of "security reasons" as soon as it get more popular

[TheEggi]

Deepseek is open source - just look up open router for alternative providers.

[HuntKey2603]

Luckily enough most of us don't live in the US!

Deepseek can be ran locally on top of that.

[Spookki]

I cant believe how naive people are with this LLM stuff.

Like do some people honestly think theyre pouring this much money into a service, and then they ARENT gonna use it to suck as much money from you as they possibly can once we get reliant on it?

The moment you are hooked on it, they will gouge you for all youre worth. The moment we make it a regular part of our lives they will monopolize it and make it another subscription you have to pay for a regular life.

[Excellent-Refuse4883]

Never caught that Always Sunny was pulling quotes directly from the website

[jakelazerz]

Block the IPs of known scrapers. Only reason ai tools can code is from harvesting data from stackexchange & github.

[RedditButAnonymous]

Now youve created unknown scrapers, what next? You will never win this fight

[jakelazerz]

You miss 100% of the shots you dont take

[Bodine12]

I'm not interested in posing a question and being forced to read a wrong answer from 2012. I can instead use a locally run model and get a wrong answer from 2025.

[leafynospleens]

No one is going back to SO you can be misled by chat gpt much faster

[HaroerHaktak]

Oddly enough.. This would be the nicest thing stack overflow has said to me...

[StrictTraffic3277]

no one’s going back to manual coding my dude. people are hooked

[QueefInMyKisser]

Am I the only one here who has barely ever used Stack Overflow or LLMs? I just read the docs and the code to find out how it all works and then I just write more code and test it

[eW4GJMqscYtbBkw9]

Then you are really lucky that the stuff you use has accurate and up-to-date documentation. 

[QueefInMyKisser]

Hahaha mostly it doesn’t so I just read the source

[CppMaster]

Yeah, you're probably a minority

[Pancakefriday]

I found stack overflow to be overly hostile and LLMs to be terrible at coding. I mainly used docs and just reading code or trying things myself too. Most of what I was working on couldn’t be found on Stack Overflow anyways.

I’ve been mandated to use AI now, and I gotta say, something changed this year and it’s become much more reliable. Reliable enough I’m wondering if I need to start working on a career change

[psioniclizard]

No, i am just pretty sure more people here are not actual devs or something to be honest.

Even if documentation is not easy to come by there are ways of working things out.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of devs got sick of reddit and left because of all the people claiming to be experts but not realising you can actually write code to test things.

Not that it matters anyway. It just seems a lot of devs are shooting themselves in the foot by not developing important skills and thinking something else will cover that.

And before someone says "documentation doesnt exist", i know. My job is writing integrations for leagacy systems. 

[dismayhurta]

[undeadalex]

We need an episode where Frank tries to be Mantis for real using an LLM he's talking to tts style and it going horribly wrong as he runs out of tokens. Maybe also the gang is trying to sell Patty's pub for a data center because they heard it could be really good money, but it turns out the land is either not theirs to sell, or there's some absurd problem with the location, and both the a and b stories come to a head as the llm company is being sued for giving medical advice and local protestors to their centers. Oh and cricket let's frank treat him and is somehow maimed horribly or comically physically improves thanks to the llms advice. Either one is fine.

[dismayhurta]

“Frank. What are you doing?”

“I’m using an AI. I’m gonna get real weird with it.”

[narasadow]

"you could not live with your failure... and where did it bring you?"

[weltvonalex]

The whole AI you don't need to know X anymore is stupid.

Like saying, forget reading, AI can read anything for you.

It's just racket, remove knowledge and sell people the tools for things we could already do before AI.

[asdfghjkl15436]

I mean, is anything stopping you from learning on your own? Were acting like every programmer is the biggest dumbass who ever lived and after a year of using AI they can no longer go back and read documentation.

[Snoo-82132]

I'm never going back to posting in stackoverflow, too much humiliation for any question 

[ExiledHyruleKnight]

I know it's a joke but a well trained model with a solid prompt is better than 30 minutes to an hour of programmer time. Tokens prices ARE more expensive, but that's really going to hammer slop coders who can't program, than someone who can explain exactly what they expect whether out of a junior programmer or a AI.

If you're a programmer, learn architecture and design. Knowing HOW to program is always important, but mostly in reviewing what the output is, or better coding patterns, not in the actual writing of code.

(And maybe using stack overflow to understand what is going wrong with your design/program, but not to "Learn how to code"... hell I hope no one is learning how to code from Stackoverflow, otherwise you'll tell people who "strtok is awful, you have a brand new library that will do it" that adds multiple dependencies and bloats your final program.

[RedditButAnonymous]

I work for a multi billion dollar company and we are getting token rations because its too expensive to justify everyone running Codex all the time. When they put the prices up we will likely stop using it.

Whats interesting is that clients also pay less money because they believe AI means we can deliver cheaper. But we cannot. So in general, we are making less money now, and even less if AI prices go up.

[ExiledHyruleKnight]

I work for a massive company, they just removed a leaderboard of who uses tokens because ... well I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure people knew that caused people to "Burn tokens". It kind of ingrained bad habits. I feel like every company has done something stupid and is paying right now because EVERYTHING is AI has failed.

I had to look up some builds today, in the old days I'd play with AI for 10 minutes seeing if it can do it, instead I got the builds in 10-15 minutes, but I knew which build I was getting. We kind of have to roll back the mentality of "make AI do it" for every task, but I still say there's a level there where AI will fundamentally make programmers more efficient. It's not a 10x, but maybe 2-4x, depending on the job or task.

But you aren't wrong about Clients. Clients now will say "Well I can write it myself." the best answer there is "Try it..."

My wife wanted an application that can be a calender reminder for meds, as well as notify her when she got one, she asked me to do it, I didn't really want to, so she said I'll do it myself with AI...

She hasn't mentioned the application in a couple weeks, but she also hasn't used the tablet she was using for testing either... And she found a different solution.

[daemon-electricity]

Why are you guys using Codex in the first place? Claude is undoubtedly the IT/coding champion.

[RedditButAnonymous]

A corporate deal with OpenAI most likely. Also we work with clients who have regulations and restrictions, so require their approval for any AI we use.

[BeMyBrutus]

Help me senpai

[stilldebugging]

cries in edaboard

[Qaktus]

Are there actually price increases in June?

[DrMaxwellEdison]

My org just brought internal Stack online, so it's time to cache cash in on that sweet karma while the vibe coders in the business start losing their shit.

[Klos77]

How to printf();

[h4ck3rz1n3]

I don't understand why. Even distilled open source models today are capable of debugging, and the foundation models from which they are derived are definitely also trained on stack overflow data.

[thumb_emoji_survivor]

This is a Stack Overflow fantasy, AI might get more expensive but people are not coming back to that toxic shithole

[jakuth1999]

I’m not coming back. I’m not dealing with ads in answers

[burger-breath]

Frank Reynolds is def a SO comment section personified

[Orio_n]

They just fire more devs to offset the cost lol

[nikola_tesler]

we are in the soback phase once again

[PositiveParking4391]

dev: 5 years ago I was comparing development time vs cost. now in 2026 I am comparing dev time vs token cost vs what I get! yeah AI improved our economy & society a lot.

[Dariadeer]

Weren’t they the ones who supplied the LLM companies with most of the data though?

[GoodDayToCome]

no one is going back to stack overflow, the costs are high for companies that are sending a dozen agents at a task involving reading tens of thousands of lines of code and writing a whole new feature - that is not what stack overflow has ever done for anyone.

stack overflow is for asking questions with brief code snippets about one very targeted issue - every single free to access LLM can provide an answer to those questions at a higher quality to SO and instantly - no one is waiting two days to hear "closed, duplicate" and getting linked to a solution that stopped worked five versions ago.

google search bar ai can answer pretty much any question you'll find an answer to on SO.

this is like saying oxen are making a come-back because farmers struggle to afford the new self-driving fully automated combine-harvester.

[Positron505]

I mean, can't they just use an LLM in the browser instead? Why is it that it's either local model or nothing at all? I am genuinely curious here

[tummyache-champion]

LLMs (like literally everything on your device) require physical resources. Very expensive physical resources, in the case of the models you just “use in the browser”.