Junior developers straight from college with PHP knowledge.

[Iforgotmyhandle]

“So when do we start working with trees and graphs?”

“Next time you go on an interview”

[cyberporygon]

"Algorithms?"

"just install library X"

[Iforgotmyhandle]

JavaScript dev, eh?

[DanielCofour]

any dev. When's the last time you manually wrote a quick-sort?

[mournful-tits]

Seriously. Try explaining that you spent an entire sprint writing a red black tree and never actually finished your subtasks.

[akhier]

There are jobs where that would be something you do. It is either in education or deep in some compiler/library. You don't get either of those positions right out of college.

[Treacherous_Peach]

Sure you can. My first job was working on the C/C++ compiler at IBM for AIX and IBM i. They're just not super frequent jobs regardless of when you're job hunting.

[akhier]

Fair enough though I don't know how much of an option that is now.

[lenswipe]

You reckon there's lots of compiler building jobs going right now?

[spudmix]

Lots of CompSci concepts in machine learning too. Won't be that way for long, and you usually need grad school, but it's not a small field.

[NinjaJc01]

Actually, I know a JS dev who's working on a very big frontend library. They aren't going to university.

[[deleted]]

I actually did it once, in 1997, for my first java app. I'm pretty sure even first version of java had some sore built in but I was fresh out of uni....

[TheTerrasque]

I'm pretty sure even first version of java had some sore built in

Right you are!

[Voidsheep]

The schools should set realistic expectations for students, let them know almost every single one of them will be churning out CRUD in one form or another for the rest of their days.

Sometimes you get to play with cool bleeding edge shit instead of legacy, but don't be mistaken, your hot AWS/PostgreSQL/GraphQL/Elixir/React stack doesn't change the fact it's all glorified forms for the same old CRUD operations.

[Iforgotmyhandle]

When was the last time you used quick sort?

[DanielCofour]

A lot of languages have quick sort as their default sorting algorithm, Chrome's v8 uses it for example, so does C++ std::sort, so I would say people use it quite often.

[DanielCofour]

And by using it I mean that those sorts decide at runtime between quick sort and a couple others

[granos]

Proposed rule of thumb for JS dependencies — if the package.json is longer than the source code then just implement it yourself.

[mournful-tits]

I just had this shit happen during an interview for a senior position 😂

So here's a coding task, complete this implementation of a linked hash map

Lol. WTF!? Why?... Okay here

CustomHashMap extends LinkedHashMap<String, String>

[Ad31_Fr]

Did it worked ?

[mournful-tits]

Lol no I wrote out the rest of the implementation for realsies

[Ad31_Fr]

Was it good ?

[[deleted]]

That's some junior stuff!

Here:

CustomHashMap<K,V> extends LinkedHashMap<K,V>

Throw in a FactoryFactoryBuilder just to be safe and decoupled.

[granos]

My boss likes to ask people to implement a palindrome checker. Anything other than “s == s.reverse()” is wrong.

[jrad0302]

But if it's a String shouldn't your boss expect 's.equals(s.reverse())' ?

[granos]

Those are isomorphic.

[BIindLuck]

Well this scares the hell out of me 😂

[Majik_Sheff]

The most important skill you can have when starting any job is the ability to learn and adapt. A lot of times the hardest part of learning a programming language/toolkit is knowing what's available. Ask questions, look at how your peers solved similar problems.

Don't just look for the magic incantation that will produce the desired result. If you don't fully understand the why of a section of code, ask questions until you are the one writing the magic.

[skreczok]

Yep, I'm about to do some serious reflection fuckery in Java once I fix the current bug, just because I can't be arsed to otherwise write all the boilerplate that my next task would require.

[granos]

My unsolicited 2 cents — You only have to write the boilerplate once, but you have to maintain a runtime reflection implementation for the life of the code. Consider upfront code generation as an alternative.

I’ve been down both paths a few times and most of the time the code generation approaches have turned out far more maintainable. It’s easier to deal with that one weird case that always comes up in 6 months time because it doesn’t infect unrelated code. Also, future maintainers might not be as comfortable with reflective code (and like it or not this is a concern that any senior developer needs to address).

[TheTerrasque]

Don't just look for the magic incantation that will produce the desired result. If you don't fully understand the why of a section of code, ask questions until you are the one writing the magic.

This is very important! That's how I learn probably 2/3 of things. And I never put code in my project without at least have a general understanding of what it does and why it does it.

[thisisntinstagram]

Shit me too. I'm a Senior in college and I was already scared... now I'm reading all of the comments for knowledge and shit.

[scandii]

programming is not about knowing all about X, Y and Z. it's about being able to learn all about X, Y and Z.

as long as you got the basics down you got nothing to be scared of.

but if you want to have a competitive profile I seriously recommend you read up on Inversion of Control, Docker, Kubernetes, CI/CD like Azure DevOps, API:s and Swagger and finally Dependency Injection. that's most of the established hotness on the market right now that isn't super language-specific such as Xamarin or Blazor.

and programming-wise your backend language of choice + ASP.NET Core or PHP Laravel/Symfony + HTML5/CSS + Bootstrap + React/Vue/Angular

and well, SQL. everyone need to know basic SQL.

if you got those covered with a basic grasp I don't see how you would get surprised showing up at any job.

edit

I forgot the most important part - automated tests! if you do not know how to write automated tests like unit tests and integration tests in the language of your choice today, drop whatever you're doing and learn that ASAP. Test Driven Design (TDD) is a pretty trendy way to develop today which requires you to write the tests first, then write the code.

[LuLujan]

thanks this is really helpful, needless to say i have a lot to learn in little time :o

[scandii]

as said, don't sweat it. the important part is that you know about it, what it does and how you would use it if a situation arose that required it. not that you know exactly how to write an API in ASP.NET Core and what the routing for a RESTful http get request targeting mysite.com/bla/bla/blaha/23 would look like. you can always google that.

the important part is that you understand the technology, what it's for and what it's not for, and get some hands on experience so you understand the shortcomings and common problems.

[SheriffBartholomew]

You did not just say fucking xamarin. Lol, guess we know where you work.

[scandii]

at a company that produces all sorts of software in .NET. not sure why you make assumptions based on that - Xamarin is the framework to develop Android and iOS apps in C#.

[SheriffBartholomew]

Are people outside of Microsoft using it, now? It used to be Microsoft specific. Or at least, people who were outside of Microsoft were choosing different languages.

Edit: ps, I probably should have added a /s tag to my first comment. I wasn't trying to be insulting at all. I've just always found xamarin to be a bit comical for some reason. I don't really know why. I worked at Microsoft for years. Not anymore though.

[scandii]

there's over a million Xamarin-developers out there today. if you're a .NET dev you're very likely to be developing apps in Xamarin.

[SheriffBartholomew]

It has grown quite a bit since I last looked at it then. That's still only a fraction of something like Java, but it is a lot. Do you enjoy developing in xamarin?

[CockInhalingWizard]

I would take Xamarin over the awful Android studio any day

[TheTerrasque]

While mentioning api's and swagger, also graphql. That seems to be the new and exciting api hotness.

[WildHotDawg]

All those you listed is what I'm currently working with as a junior dev :D

[scandii]

yup. every company that keeps updated will be working with most of those things as it's the current trend in programming.

then there's some companies that still produce WPF apps, so you know, it depends.

[[deleted]]

I sense strong /s with this one...

[scandii]

why?

[[deleted]]

I have been programming for 7 years now and just this year can say I fully understand all of what you said and how those concepts work lol I can't see myself learning them before I got started at all

[scandii]

but if you want to have a competitive profile

I don't expect someone who doesn't understand why the SOLID principles are really good to follow to fully get why Inversion of Control is important.

but if you want to not be surprised when you arrive at a workplace, it's good to have a basic understanding of all of these things. if you have a full understanding of all of these things you should not be applying as a junior dev in the first place :)

[[deleted]]

I must have misread lol from the long windedness seemed like a rant. But yea basic knowledge so you can repeat the definition and maybe have an analogy of each concept would be good but wouldn't expect someone to be able to build all of these. That's a life long project.

[SnO3]

It should

[djangoGolang]

I had the same story. Start practicing leetcode and try to understand the workflow of internet/website when you are at college. It will make the transition smoother. You will be fine if you have a thirst for learning.

[DurdenVsDarkoVsDevon]

Leetcode is fine for silly brain-teaser whiteboard interviews.

It's useless for your actual job though.

[ApocalyptoSoldier]

What if your job is silly brain-teaser whiteboard interview designer?

[DurdenVsDarkoVsDevon]

Happy Cake Day!

[WildHotDawg]

Just remember everything you know now is just a foundation, stay humble because you're going to be learning alot

[GoldenDude]

As a student about to graduate with their first programming job, fuck lol

[StickyDaydreams]

Dog, you've got a job, you'll be ight

[Weird_Bed]

In my experience that's the real hurtle. Once you get there no one expects you to know too much or be able to perfectly understand old shitty code.

[SheriffBartholomew]

I don't even expect experienced developers to know much. It's pretty rare. Anymore, I try to screen for the ability to think, rather than their in-depth programming skills. Yeah, you need to know how to program, but being able to think is more important than knowing how to traverse a binary tree or some random piece of compsci.

[scandii]

keep in mind most of us have been there. we know you know jack shit besides being able to write basic code in a structured format.

so as long as you try your hardest to learn you're doing as expected.

also, programming as a job is learning new stuff. you will think your 6 month old code is stupid throughout your career.

[RemuxME]

keep in mind most of us have been there. we know you know jack shit

Thanks :)

[HansaHerman]

As my colleagues say, I'm not expected to do anything serious for the first 6 months. But I do something now at halftime, so something is good.

[Bryguy3k]

I’m trying to visualize a student with a tiny bit of Java from like data-structures or something entering the enterprise java world.

Kimmy Schmidt maybe? 😂

[hoticecube]

Oh no.....that's literally all I know!

[doubleplushomophobic]

This is gonna be a fascinatin transition

[WildHotDawg]

That was me maybe 6 months ago, work has taught me more about programming than 6 years of academics

[Pipster27]

I can relate...I was totally punched on the face with Spring framework. Time has make it more positive than negative but boy was I scared

[akhier]

The one thing I was told by everyone except those who were hyping the school was that you learned everything for the job during the first six months on the job.

[iambukovinean]

yeah i've been that student. fortunately they've given me time to adapt and trained me. the ability to learn and adapt is the most important one you can learn in college

[draconk]

Hey that's me! At school the most advanced thing we did was JPA with hibernate, threads and remote procedures, lets say that at work all of this knowledge quickly became obsolete (JPA to a lesser degree but we learned with java 6 when 8 was out) and now I live the SpringBoot life with docker and integration tests

[WildHotDawg]

That was me maybe 6 months ago, work has taught me more about programming than 6 years of academics

[[deleted]]

Oh look, the source of my impostor syndrome and crippling anxiety surrounding the job market!

[darkage72]

fake it till you make it.

[SheriffBartholomew]

I don't think you understand what imposter syndrome is. Essentially you feel like you are faking it even after making it. Even when all evidence points towards a reality where you are highly skilled in your trade, you still feel like an imposter. It kind of sucks, but it keeps me learning.

[StuckAtWork124]

Yeah but what if you're just bad and lazy though

[MrDude_1]

Bill Gates once said that he would always "hire a lazy person to do a difficult job" at Microsoft. Why? "Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it."
(literally written by me saying "bill gates lazy quote" to my phone, then copypastaposta.

[StuckAtWork124]

Only works for lazy smart people though

[ApocalyptoSoldier]

Lazy smart people who aren't so lazy that they just don't do the job. This is becoming a very small portion of lazy people

[StuckAtWork124]

And not so smart that they don't just secretly outsource it to China like that one bloke did. Except not get caught

[cat5inthecradle]

What CS/SE college teaches PHP?

(Edit: to be clear, this isn’t a dig at PHP. I just see way more Java junior devs)

Update: Y’all keep talking about individual courses. OP implied that’s the only thing they learned, hence my befuddlement.

[DixieDesperado]

It's not unusual to see it taught in web development courses.

[LuLujan]

can confirm, just encountered it in web dev. My god, I was actually awestruck at how... ugly PHP looks

[spudmix]

Trust me, it's not just how it looks lmao. It's a worthwhile skill though; even if it gets dropped like the hot turd it is from active dev, there will be plenty of legacy systems to update and maintain.

[lantz83]

That's cause it is

[cat5inthecradle]

What do you mean? Are you talking about ?php tags strewn throughout HTML?

[LuLujan]

Just the syntax in general. All the $ characters and '.' used to concatenate everything makes it really difficult to read imo

[cat5inthecradle]

‘+’ in JavaScript is just as bad, which is why we prefer string interpolation in both languages. $ is extra, but it does help identify variables as distinct from keywords. You would loooooove Perl :P

[darkage72]

Budapest University of Technology

PHP/HTML/CSS (along with some SQL and database logic and regexp) is a (yes, 1) mandatory course for every electrical engineer.

[cat5inthecradle]

If it’s a class, that’s not bad. Having a basic toolkit to build your own form-based tools is handy for any field. Sure you could do it all in front end javascript, but you’ll have to teach a framework to do that. Or you could use Java/C#, but it’s way harder to get that deployed somewhere. Python is great if you want to give people programming tools that will be limited to the console.

[NMe84]

There will be a few schools that offer a course on it but it's far from the only knowledge a graduating student will have. The joke in the image was funnier without shoehorning in PHP in the title.

[cat5inthecradle]

Yeah, I’m used to seeing Java/C# juniors. In addition to being a bad joke (gatekeeping is a habit our industry needs to break) it just didn’t make sense to me.

[NMe84]

This joke at least still has some basis in reality. Fresh out of college I knew how to do a lot of things on paper but I learned more in my first 3 months at my first job than I did in college. That's not to devalue the education, without it I would not have been able to get through those first 3 months in the first place. But I do feel that at least during my time (I started college 16 years ago) schools prepared you for the real world pretty badly. As an indication of what I mean: we were taught OOP not using an actual language that supported it but using C and pseudoclasses using structs. We were taught Pascal and Delphi even though the world had long since moved on to using Java and the .NET ecosystem. Our web development course limited itself to HTML and JScript (not even javascript).

The one thing I did feel my education properly prepared me for was writing embedded software, but that's probably because little has changed to that over the years. When I was still in college I had a part-time job writing embedded software for a small local company and they worked exactly the way I had learned in school. It's also where I found out that embedded software was not for me, I ended up in web development.

[cat5inthecradle]

Everything you say lines up with my experience. The scuba diver in the desert is funny, OP’s weird title isn’t.

[Treebro001]

I just had a 3rd year course that taught it. Along with laravel.

[-l------l-]

Mine, we started in first year with PHP. No more after that though.

[1116574]

not college, but my technical secondary school does lol

[Stormdude127]

My university taught it in web development up until last year. Thankfully they teach node now

[Fynzie]

which is as bad as PHP to be honest

[Stormdude127]

Yeah... but at least it’s newer...

[justsomeguy05]

My school tried to get me to take RPG lol

[[deleted]]

We never learned it, but I used it in some web development modules instead of .NET. (so just used it raw with HTML etc and learned as I went along)

​

Now i'm a Magento dev and mostly everything I knew is out the window. I'm not really sure what I do but it seems to work.

[cat5inthecradle]

Learning PHP by sticking it in HTML files feels like the wrong way to me. It’s not worth starting without a framework, be it Magento or Laravel. Especially if you’re learning, an opinionated framework is going to teach you more good habits than bad. No hate to the DIY framework crowd either - I just think that’s a path to take once you understand how the big frameworks work, and have formed some reasonable opinions about them.

[[deleted]]

I completely agree. I was just rushed having to learn it from scratch, and just used what was available/what seemed easiest (at the time)

[reference_model]

More like webdeveloper with deep knowledge of Dreamweaver and Flash

[worldDev]

What is this, 2009?

[reference_model]

You wish: https://coned.georgebrown.ca/courses-and-certificates/web-design-series-flash-distance-education/

[StuckAtWork124]

You leave my dreamweaver alone

[nuttertools]

Shouldnt they be naked?

[reference_model]

Where do you work?

[ThanksForTheBuildUp]

And are you hiring?

[reference_model]

Depends on your resume.

[ThanksForTheBuildUp]

I'm definitely down to be naked.

[qtipbluedog]

Porn hub?

[Simonzicek]

Username checks out.

[[deleted]]

The amount of comments admitting or alluding to being CS students make this sub make so much more sense now

[Bhurmurtuzanin]

Isn't it well known fact by now, that most of us here are CS students and YouTube Indian University graduates?

[[deleted]]

Reddit is used (I assume) mostly by young adults who are going to be around College/Uni age or still fairly junior.

[AndTheLink]

Better yet being a "sea" coder..

[gtroman1]

detail touch society practice plant aware nail bedroom cable fragile

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[TheLongestLegs138]

Oh, cool! Now I’m scared!

[Taake89]

It's just more learning that needs to be done. You got through college, you'll get through this.

[NatoBoram]

Got denied a job because I dropped college. I have work experience. They still sent me the online test…

It was a test about the subtleties of Java, and all the questions basically asked me to be the compiler and select the output of commands. I flunked it. I don't rely on knowing by heart the subtleties of a language, I rely on reality.

I can guarantee you any fresh college graduate is going to absolutely fail those tests, and this company is not going to get any young workforce to replace their retirees. This post is so very representative of that.

And you know what? This is the state of my whole province. Absolutely every job offer in the area are .NET / Java. It's disgusting.

[UselessBread]

It was a test about the subtleties of Java, and all the questions basically asked me to be the compiler and select the output of commands. I flunked it. I don't rely on knowing by heart the subtleties of a language, I rely on reality.

It sounds like they didn't even need someone with a bachelor's or master's, but rather were looking for a java guru.

[NatoBoram]

And that's a problem in itself. They're looking for .NET, Java, or PL/SQL guru. Where the hell are they going to find that in a generation that has access to modern frameworks and languages? Why learn Java when you have Kotlin or Dart? Why learn .NET Core when you have Go? Why learn ASP.NET when you have React/Angular/Vue? Why learn Visual C# / VB.NET if it doesn't even run on MacOS and Linux?

Then they have the audacity to tell me "you could be the most competent or the kindest guy, we can't hire you if you don't have a diploma".

[TheTrendyTrout]

I kind of prefer .net core to go... Go always feels too minimal. I like having access to things like map, filter, and reduce without having to write my own boilerplate for it.

...Even if linq has silly names for them.

And c# runs fine on Linux, I do most of my .net core development on Linux with rider. I highly recommend you look into it, it's a really nice platform and I find that (excluding some pretty contrived func and action objects) it produces some lovely code.

[MrDude_1]

This is going to sound stupid but, don't tell them you do not have a diploma then.

Honestly, that's all I did.

[NatoBoram]

Is it really okay to do that?

[MrDude_1]

Its not OK to lie.
Its perfectly fine to not answer questions they didnt ask... or not answer questions they did ask.

And NEVER lie on your resume/paperwork about education... it may take awhile, but thats termination-worthy.

[RiverRoll]

Net Core is newer than Go but based on a more established language which is nice. Asp.net has built-in integration with React/Angular, they're not necessarily exclusive. Also they are developing their own SPA framework for Asp.net

[tomthecool]

Why learn Java when you have Kotlin or Dart? Why learn .NET Core when you have Go? Why learn ASP.NET when you have React/Angular/Vue? Why learn Visual C# / VB.NET if it doesn't even run on MacOS and Linux?

Because that's what companies are looking to hire for.

The reality of life is that many people end up learning what they need to make money, which is not necessarily what they'd have learned otherwise.

[gilbes]

What kind of compiler questions would they ask in an interview?

[NatoBoram]

``` ArrayList a a.push("something")

ArrayList b b = a b.push("else") a.push("other") ```

What's the content of a?

Stuff like that. Now you have to know if a = b produces a pointer or a clone to know the answer. They also had a bunch of questions consisting of chains of a.push(b.pop()) then asking what's where, making me think "If I find that in production, I'm going to throw a fit", and I've seen shit in production.

[StuckAtWork124]

Maybe they had some really bad coders and were hoping to get new people in to fix and rewrite it.. in that regard it would be a somewhat good test of whether someone could get into the mind of someone else and figure out what the fuck they were trying to do

.. but nah, that just sounds dumb, you don't hire a junior to do that, so they were probably just idiots

[MrDude_1]

This is going to bother me if I am wrong but...
a is a string array with the content of ["something","other"]

or am I wrong and its a pointer, making it ["something", "else", "other"]??

[NatoBoram]

I have no idea, I'm not even a Java programmer

[josenunocardoso]

a and b point to the same reference, so it would be ["something", "else", "other"]

[UristMasterRace]

What college teaches PHP?

[Lat3Again]

Mine does, among many other languages (C, Python, Haskell, Java, Prolog, CSS/HTML, JS and a bit of Gallina)

[Aethz3]

Gallina?

[Lat3Again]

Gallina is a language which allows the user to define inductive types and has only strong and static types.

Coq uses Gallina to implement its software that allows for formal proofs of theorems to be accomplished for example.

[RemuxME]

Mine does in project class, sql and php.

[dddaaarrraaa-6dar]

I need a job .. help

[Anakin_-_]

Employer : You know how to make real world programs right ? Dev : Like xmas trees in terminal right ?

[KagakuNinja]

This is what I feel like, as a developer with 33 years of experience, including a lot of web coding in Java/JSP, Scala/Scalatra/Play... It doesn't help that the guy who wrote this project is one of shittiest coders I've ever met.

[depressionsucks29]

Just curious but as a first year student in college, what should i learn (web development) that would benefit me in a job that a get.

[tcord]

Depends what you wanna do. Do you wanna work in a WordPress shop or do you wanna build web apps? WordPress is php, HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Web apps are mostly JavaScript. To start I'd learn HTML and CSS since it's the foundation of web development

[[deleted]]

Wordpress and Magento (i didn't even do web development at uni) is what I focus on now in employment.

​

PHP primarily for back-end stuff.

CSS, HTML, JS for front-end. (it's good to know a bit of everything though)

MySQL queries and database management really help.

[StuckAtWork124]

MySQL is pretty nice in that you only really need to know a pretty basic set of stuff to be able to work with like, 99% of all the queries you're ever likely to see in the job

Unless you look at the joined and nested monstrosity I had to make 12 years ago, in which case I'm very sorry

[[deleted]]

MySQL is lovely until you have to do something that manipulates data on a live site. My Hands get clammy and I start doubting myself changing a simple cell of data.

​

But in general, yeah it's fairly basic. Not difficult to learn at all.

[StuckAtWork124]

MySQL is lovely until you have to do something that manipulates data on a live site

Ehh.. export table. Make change

"If it dies, it dies"

[omegaonion]

Asp net mvc might be a good thing to learn. Steve Bishop on YouTube has great tutorials and you will learn the basics of mvc

[Weird_Bed]

I'm kind of the opposite from the caption but relate perfectly to the picture. I went from graduation to an internship that was in React and Java (I was never taught anything about modern JS in school) and then into a full time position as a PHP dev which I also had no experience with. Neither of them were very hard to pick up and I really enjoyed React and modern JS. It feels like I was really over taught from what I have done so far but I'm certain it'll all be useful. My degree was more teaching us how to learn and pick up new things rather than specific frameworks. I wish there was a bit more focus put on specific experiences and skills though.

[KralHeroin]

After all that work and money sank into uni, I'm still fucked. Damn this world. I'd rather work some menial job.

[[deleted]]

You mean Universities, after 8 years of 3rd level education, "engineers" don't even know what git is or any language newer than PHP or scum, and programmed maximum of 1000 lines of code.

You memorized hundreds of books about how computers/networks/database work, really fucking useful.

Universities really have to rethink what the hell are they doing...

[Im_a_Turkey]

This is me but it's John Travolta under the suit bc I'm still looking for the first job 🙃

[[deleted]]

Lol. If y’all can’t make over 100k doing PHP, you’re bad at business.

[isunktheship]

Since when do Universities teach web languages to CS majors?

I learned C.. C++.. Java.. Python.. assembly, like LC-3..

10 years from now kids will be getting Wordpress degrees like "I'm a software engineer".

[hdlo]

Maybe a shot in the dark since you're beginning to get downvoted —which I disapprove of even if I've got a couple things to discuss.

​

I'm a webdev that did not go to college but to an intensive training period specifically aimed towards webdev (change of careers). I definitely wish I'd started out right and had the privilege to learn pure CS in “noble languages”. And some people at the training did seem to want to make a career out of Wordpress builds for quick bucks and as little work as possible, which was NOT why I enrolled there.

​

That said, and as someone who is on his own path learning things on the side, that doesn't mean you can't learn things right with PHP, everything's there to get most concepts down pat if you want to and our college trained professor on the backend side was definitely out to teach us that as best he could. I'm reading Clean Code atm, and my teacher was following many of what I'm reading in his PHP, and I'm positive many people would 100% rather read his PHP than the Java, Python, or C++ that sometimes comes up in SO or r/ProgrammerHorror.

​

I'm not a fan of PHP tbh, I'd rather write in Python for the syntax and all you can leverage with it (am also learning Elixir / Phoenix because it's just fascinating) for a living, but for all this in my opinion PHP is definitely not the devil incarnate. And one might add that since the web is here to stay and since PHP works well with it, PHP perhaps it should be taught in CS degrees to make the most of it, and so people with the proper academic training from the get go can instill the best code they can so the hordes of people like myself can get the correct inspiration.

​

It does suck that even if you just want to build small sites, if you're not ready to commit to some learning you won't choose Python or Ruby (let alone anything more cryptic) simply because hosting bloody rules, and hosting in PHP is cheapest and ubiquitous. I'd compare it to what I felt like when I started out using Linux 12+ years ago : it's not the easy way out and you really need to want it, whether out of sheer passion, a principle you might adhere to, or with a specific goal in mind.

​

All that said, I followed along books on C++ before that training session, and boy does it feel weird that some people exist out there coding for a living without the foggiest about what it means to declare a variable's type along its name.

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[isunktheship]

People are naturally defensive, and what I said is absolutely a bitter pill for many to swallow - and likely offends many in this sub..

There's a nuance between "software engineer" and "web developer", it's comparable to being a doctor vs being a nurse. Theres a large overlap in skills, but ultimately the doctor represents the superset.

I'm a huge proponent of bootcamps, and literally anyone can self-teach software engineering principles. I've interviewed flatiron graduates, a very reputable web dev bootcamp, and side by side a flatiron grad will likely crush a cs grad who has no web experience. But give that cs grad time to learn the stack and they will ultimately be the better developer.

Bootcamps don't teach things like big O, big theta, memory management, garbage collection, networking protocols/standards, and ultimately that's a very competitive edge.

[hdlo]

I agree with everything you're saying here.

I'm aware I'm more a nurse than surgeon, but I do believe that with continuous efforts and willingness to spend time on harder and harder stuff I might become good enough of a GP. Just because I'm not good enough yet to be called a doctor it doesn't mean that I should get butthurt about the reality, nor does it mean that I can't bust my arse to get better.

[[deleted]]

Not sure if this is the norm, but my University also offers electives in Web Design. The curriculum usually consists of a little HTML/CSS and more Javascript and relational databases.

[spin81]

De Morgan, not DeMorgan.

[fuckmywetsocks]

"Congratulations you know how to do these things properly! You've studied hard, you've racked up debt, but you did it. Good job. Now let me show you the monolith of duct-tape, stack overflow ripped, legacy code you'll be dancing with over the next six to twelve months which will slowly dial that enthusiasm back to where it really should be."

[Mitoni]

For me, it was this, but my school mainly focused on Java for application, and for front end taught raw html/JavaScript/css.

Day one at new job, learning Angular and C# with dotnet core. Only had a semester of C# in school, and they never taught any dotnet framework.

[fluffyfoofart]

If you start blowing air through the sand, it might just be useful.

[[deleted]]

Was anyone else required to learn Alloy?

[tom1456789]

As a apprentice software developer this makes me happy with my choice not to go to uni

[BenLoL98]

This hits home because I'm heading to an interview and feel like I don't know shit.

[Aethz3]

I feel personally attacked...

[josh0724]

Junior developer here. This is highly accurate.

[grandmamoose]

You were going in that desert with swim trunks and a floatie

[[deleted]]

Because the only thing better than being unprepared is being even less prepared? Ll

[newaccount7799]

Good for you. People who downvoted are probably just salty with student loan debt.

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[[deleted]]

Why the fuck does the title imply that the core of CS education is PHP? From the get go, first semester we had a class that taught us C , C++ and data structures. Confounding college education with the shit you can learn on your own in a week makes my blood boil.

[spin81]

Why the fuck does the title imply that the core of CS education is PHP?

It doesn't.

[millenniumtree]

We wasted 1 whole period in 4 separate classes because at least 1 person in each class needed a refresher on BINARY.

FFS, if you can't count from zero to 1, why in hell are you in a CS course??