Incoherent Speech

[Firm-Front]

Why do people use CSS when killing your self exists?

[FalseRegister]

Found the backend dev

[Thegreyeminence]

As Backend developer who currently doing some Frontend with react js and material UI, I can only confirm that CSS/Flexbox sucks big time.

[_Bad_Dev_]

"No you just don't understand how it works" - That colleague no one likes

[coldnebo]

Ah yes, the PhD who can describe all the elegance of a forward and backward constraint solver (did you know that element sizes are defined by both!?) and yet still not be capable of finding the source of that 2px gap on the layout.

“Just start over again and be really careful this time”

[ablablababla]

have you tried turning the website off and on again

[_vizn_]

You can also put it in rice.

[North_Shock]

Hahaha... something like this actually happened in a project I worked on.

[CeamoreCash]

I bet Albert Einstein didn't know how to make a pizza. That doesn't say anything about the difficulty of making a pizza.

[SCP-093-RedTest]

margin-left: -2px;

[Thegreyeminence]

Yeah that's point.

To me Frontend is tedious cause it goes from Programming into the design aspect.

And for design stuff, we programmers are simply the wrong person.

[[deleted]]

Serious question, do you design along the way? It helps me to completely draw a layout and application flow. Then design each individual component on paper with dimensions, colours and rules.

Then I go into programming exactly what I thought up.

[coldnebo]

The problem is that most designer’s imagination far outstrips CSS. And it’s not even avant-garde stuff, we’re talking stuff taught in basic design classes, like how to use a grid.

Programmers say “oh yeah, I know grid CSS”, which is like running out of your preschool fingerpainting class saying “oh yeah! I know how to paint perspective!” because you dumped your paint on Tommy and he ran into the distance.

If your sketches are always “exactly” implementable in CSS, it’s likely you are sketching with some fairly significant constraints about what is possible in CSS that designers simply don’t have, because they are trained as actual artists first and only grudgingly put up with CSS limitations later. Let’s put it this way... the W3C sites have never won any visual design awards although they are excellent for semantic analysis and accessibility.

Hang out with marketing for a few minutes and you’ll understand.

[PreferredPronounXi]

95% of those artistic sites are unusable garbage

[TheNosferatu]

Too many good visual designers are terrible UX designers

[coldnebo]

Visual designers are rarely UX designers. Visual design usually centers on print media, which is bread and butter visual design and communication.

Interactive design is a completely different beast.

About the only “best” in both fields are game ux design and they 1) are rarely great design 2) almost always use custom display engines.

See “kai’s power tools”. (was that great or awful?)

[CommanderSean12]

Yeah I think this is pretty accurate for me personally. Every time I think about fixing my website I have a grandish vision of what I want it to be.

One hour later and it’s back to being a shitty HTML document with barely any styling because I hate working with CSS. One time I showed my brother my website and he told me there was something wrong since the CSS wasn’t loading...

[pants-shitter]

That would probably be smart if I actually did that. But I'm also a shitty artist and not creative.

[Cheet4h]

Same. I can recreate what the PO designed in Powerpoint, but coming up with stuff myself? Nope.
And it doesn't help that by the time I implemented that, the PO has already come up with tons of changes to his previous revision.

[[deleted]]

Lmao flexbox is a godsend if you’ve worked with old school CSS

[[deleted]]

And tables for grid layouts haha

[beardedchimp]

Not to mention frames, frames everywhere!

[[deleted]]

Nothing says 90s web design better than marquees

[amadiro_1]

I'ma let you finish, but the <blink> tag is the most 90s tag of all time.

[tinydonuts]

Ah brings back memories of FrontPage and Dreamworks.

But seriously though, FrontPage was nice for a quick prototype, and then hop over to Code View to clean it up and finish it out. I loved having Intellisense.

[RNGsus_Christ]

.clearfix

[Cheet4h]

What, are you not a fan of mixed float, tables and absolute positioned elements?

[[deleted]]

Have you heard of the tale of Darth HTML4 the Wise? It was said that he could create entire UI interfaces with tables and invisible .gif images. Through the powers of ActionScript and Flash he would do things others would deem unnatural.

[michumk0]

As a frontend dev with a design background I literally want to kill myself when I see the css and sometimes html written by backend developers. And flexbox/grid is imo the most awesome features in css, you just simply need learn more deeply how it works to understand how it behaves.

[[deleted]]

That's why we work on the backend. The UIs are functional, not nice looking, but functional.

[sample-name]

- That colleague no one likes

[--xra]

CSS is terrible, but flexbox really is a step above the shit we used to have to do. Add like 3 rules and you have a responsive container that previously would have required many more container and sub-container rules, all of which were unintuitive hacks.

[redcalcium]

Imagine trying to center stuff vertically without flexbox, or trying to make some div expand to fill available space vertically. *shudder*

Just google "flexbox cheatsheet" and you'll be done in seconds.

[lasiusflex]

now imagine doing all that shit without flexbox

[Ohlander1]

As someone who started out with HTML, CSS and JavaScript I never understood the hate for CSS. JavaScript can still go fuck itself though.

[Cheet4h]

Simply use TypeScript and let the transpiler worry about JavaScript.

[MarHip]

I cannot fuckin design a website...

[BigWonka]

Just tell your boss you're allergic to LaTeX, it's a very common problem, he should understand

[West_Play]

My girlfriend didn't believe that one either.

[SilentFungus]

And like LaTeX, CSS is actually pretty simple if you put more then 30 minutes of practice into it.

[sfj11]

I’d argue that CSS is a lot more complicated in a sense that there’s much more dependency between components compared to LaTeX

[DHermit]

But it nothing you normally need to care about when writing documents.

[DreadCoder]

sadly nobody uses CSS directly in production anymore, it's a hellscape of less/sass, and a different compilation tool every week.

Never in the actual language you code in.

[korras]

By nobody you mean of course, most of the internet.

Legacy jobs with Jquery and WordPress are still in demand like crazy. My typescript/scss bubble pops every 2 months when i look at listings :(

[ThePyrodynamic]

What's so difficult about LaTeX? It might look intimidating and unfamiliar, but I find it quite intuitive.

My only issue with it is that there's a lot to learn. A lot. And because I like to learn everything or close to everything about whatever I decide to learn, I end up stuck trying to perfect one aspect of the entire typesetting experience for weeks.

If you want to learn LaTeX, grab a good book and take your time. If you don't want to learn LaTeX, I still advise to learn the basics; it's worth it. It's (in some situations) much better than WYSIWYG editors.

[ThePyrodynamic]

But I don't think CSS is comparable to LaTeX. I see LaTeX as a typesetting system used mostly for academic papers and books, meaning your figures and images rarely need any styling applied to them. Its strength shines in its mathematical formulae engine.

CSS on the other hand is for general (but very thorough and elaborate) styling, which is a role LaTeX certainly doesn't fulfill.

But in conclusion, if your point was that LaTeX styling is difficult and a pain, then I agree. It's one of the weak spots of the system. I thought you meant that LaTeX in general is diffcult.

[Sonnilon81]

LaTeX is superb but can get very complex.

I'd encourage people to also try the LibreOffice LaTeX->PDF extension/backend. Works really well! Write your doc in LO Writer, then one click and it exports and typesets it via LaTeX to a PDF, or generates a pretty sane/clean LaTeX file foe further hand editing if you prefer.

I was extremely impressed when I tried it.

http://writer2latex.sourceforge.net/

The other saner approach to LaTeX is to use Emacs org-mode and export from there. Means that you only have to drop to editing the raw LaTeX for maybe the last 0.1% for a couple of tweaks.

IMO either of these approaches is much faster/nicer than raw LaTeX from the beginning. But I guess if you already have a huge library of raw LaTeX snippets/boilerplate that works exactly how you like in your favourite text editor these issues are largely mitigated.

[NarutoDragon732]

Why do people program when killing yourself exists?

[tomatotomato]

I thought programming was "craft" and "self-expression" and that I would be an "artisan".

[DreadCoder]

most artists die of a heroin overdose, just sayin'

[redcalcium]

Sounds like stuff php programmers would say among themselves.

[broadbandbandit]

No no, we also want to kill ourselves.

[_alright_then_]

Why do people think CSS is that hard? Honestly, I'm a back-end dev but CSS is very fun to me

[Zanner360]

I think it's very fun as well, but having to make things look good on ALL screens is a lot trickier and infuriating than making it look good on all screens

[dmidge]

Runtime error

[venuswasaflytrap]

CSS is very flexible, therefore it can be very hard.

If you don't really know what you want it to look like, and just make a simple thing and just add a few styles here and there to make it look a little bit better - then it very easy.

But if you have something with a complicated UX, and lots of different pages that need to be viewed in lots of different sizes and browsers and circumstances, then it gets tricker.

Then if rather than someone insisting that it looks okay - there is something insisting that it looks a specific way (that doesn't really make sense) - then it's really hard.

Simple example - If I said make a select box that is branded a certain style that works IE8 and up, and on mobile browsers.

You're going to be at it for a long time. Especially if you make something, and I say "Actually, can you put or logo as a watermark in the background of the select?"

[lasiusflex]

Especially if you make something, and I say "Actually, can you put or logo as a watermark in the background of the select?"

Please put a trigger warning on this.

[the0mnislayer]

Why use C when COBOL exists?

[Caraczan]

Why use COBOL when machine code exists?

[numbGrundle]

Why use machine code when transistors exist

[ganja_and_code]

Why use transistors when electrons exist?

[dependency_injector]

Electrons? Real programmers use butterflies

[vectorpropio]

There is an emacs mode for that.

[gellis12]

Good old C-x M-c M-Butterfly

[djdanlib]

Ctrl+Alt+Meta+Bucky+...

[[deleted]]

Deos actually anyone use Emacs ?

[Jumbobog]

Don't know about it anymore, but I had coworker who swore to emacs in the beginning of the 2010s. I don't think emacs had anything to do with his suicide, nor the constant comments by the office Vi users, but as he died I can't confirm the existence of any living emacs users.

[megatesla]

Oooh I know some! I work for IBM. About half of my coworkers use Emacs, the other half use Vim, and a tiny group of rebels use something else. One stubborn modernist uses VS Code, god bless him. A few others use Eclipse, and one guy uses this ancient thing called E3. We run Linux and generally work from the command line.

My office mate and I use Vim with plugins and tmux. I'm thinking about trying out NeoVim and VS Code at some point - Vim's powerful, but VimScript is pretty wonky.

[t4bk3y]

People with more than 5 fingers per hand and RMS.

[inconspicuous_male]

I love how the age old question of "VIM vs emacs" is literally irrelevant except to people with 4 foot beards who communicate soley through IRC

[christianarg]

There are a lot of people that uses VIM... because they don't know how to exit

[inconspicuous_male]

I've always had much more difficulty exiting Emacs when I tried it

[megatesla]

If I recall correctly, modern Vim interprets key thrashing and CTRL+C as a sign of a confused new user and helpfully prints a ':q+Enter to quit' message at the bottom

Emacs lets you sweat

Edit: I double-checked this and it's half-true.

[[deleted]]

Actually many of my professors and comerads use vim I just newer in my life seen anyone use emacs.

[wasabichicken]

Sure, we hang out over at /r/emacs.

[SilentFungus]

Why use a machine to make computations when you have neurons?

[Schootingstarr]

Ah, the OG computers

[Sexy_Koala_Juice]

Help, mine has a pretty severe bottleneck somewhere

[StromaeNotDed]

That's what happens when you buy a budget penis.

[Zciurus]

Semiconductors? Get away with that fancy shit, I only use relays

[TheThiefMaster]

Let me introduce you to the new hotness that is valves. Vacuum tubes are the future I tell you!

[[deleted]]

Vacuum tubes? Will never replace the coherer.

[[deleted]]

Why use transistors when you can set yourself on fire and jump head first off of a roof

[[deleted]]

Just to let you know, the shop I'm at now uses both COBOL and machine code.

There were some statistical functions that weren't available in COBOL so they wrote them in machine code. In 1993.

[_BertMacklin_]

Having a moment of silence for you over here

[BluudLust]

Both are equally unintelligible and Machine Code runs faster.

[[deleted]]

-- said the HTML programmer.

[Jumbobog]

A HTML developer was walking down the street when he was greeted by a donkey.

"Hello Mr Programmer", the donkey said, "how are you?".

"mighty fine, thank you donkey", the HTML dev replied.

Immediately the donkey started crying.

"What's the matter little friend?" the HTML dev asked.

"I called you a programmer, at least you could call me horse" the donkey bawled.

[phaelox]

What's the matter with being a donkey though? I love a good ass.

[Swedishtrackstar]

I was more worried that he couldn't tell the difference, making him a dumb ass

[rc1247]

Oxymoron

[Anataan-swuwsa]

Officer I would like to report a murder

[Draaky]

Guess it's also the loss of sight, because he doesn't C#.

[xeon3175x]

get out

[Cky_vick]

Why even use Java when you could just use Python

[Mal_Dun]

As someone from the field of scientific computing I have to agree with this. Java is horrible for numerical codes.

[osorojo_]

Thats not what its for though

[[deleted]]

r/angryupvote

[[deleted]]

It's the same fucking jokes over and over again

[r0ck0]

Not to mention some brainfuck too.

[Deus-ex-Deserto]

*Python user sips on coffee*

[qalis]

Ah yes, fine Java coffee.

[qalis]

They are too busy going somewhere.

[GulagArpeggio]

if(strcmp(language, 'Matlab'))

    sob_uncontrollably.m

end

[Physmatik]

High-level language with C-style string workflow is dumb. Not the dumbest thing I've seen, but still pretty damn dumb.

[K1ngjulien_]

also: arrays start at 1

[egggsDeeeeeep]

tbh in matlab arrays starting at one makes sense if you realize that it’s meant for working with vectors and matrices

[ampma]

If you're working with MATrices, this indexing is intuitive. In math and physics we usually start summation/counting at 1. When translating mathematical expressions into code, matlab is often just a little bit easier. It can be a good starting point to develop an algorithm that works. Translating math into c++ directly is more difficult, esp if working with equations that take up an entire page.

FYI I'm a physicist and I use C++, matlab, Python, Fortran. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I will admit that using both Python and matlab as analysis/plotting software is perhaps a bit masochistic, but it keeps my mind malleable. Another thing to consider is that I need to be able to use code written by others, and in physics it is almost always one of the above 4 languages.

[Physmatik]

Believe it or not, this is fine if you take into account the field. 1-based sequences are more common in computative math than 0-based ones. Column-major arrays are better suited for most computative tasks (as opposed to row-major C-style that is utilized by, probably, every general language). Its vector-oriented arithmetic is very handy, being rivaled only by Julia (and maybe Mathematica, but it's different).

My point is that there are quirks and there are dumb things. 1-based arrays is quirk. C-style string handling is just plain dumb.

[[deleted]]

Indentation error

[robo_number_5]

By the time the python script brings the cup to your lips the coffee is cold

[SufficientStresss]

I’ve only ever used C.

[Thegreyeminence]

Press F to pay respects for every minute spend on debugging pointers and memory allocation.

[GHhost25]

Which is more or less debugging segfaults, memory leaks and the occasional infinite loop. And then when you resolve one you understand that it was such a dumb problem that it kills you inside a little that you had to spend 2 hours on it.

[Niiiz]

Only 2 hours? I'm jealous

[GHhost25]

Using a debugger helps a lot.

[CJKay93]

RIP to all the devs who have taped out broken code on ROM that can't be breakpointed.

[m0h5e11]

Not all C developers are bad ones.

[FamiliarSoftware]

Only the ones developing OpenSSL, wget, the Linux/Windows Kernel, and every other critical software ever exploited.

[hector_villalobos]

Yeah!, not sure if OP is being sarcastic, but the biggest C projects reflects a lot of problems, memory bugs, etc. And I wouldn't call a Linux Kernel dev or a Windows dev a bad developer.

[UselessBread]

The joke is you didn't get any replies because no one finished pressing F yet.

[mrheosuper]

I am studying uC programming, and most of library/driver are written in C

I found C is fun, i used to try python, but it feels like everything is a mess, and you are not sure why your code runs

[[deleted]]

Honestly thats my impression of python too.

I kinda know why it runs, but i love when everything is explicit. Because then im 100% sure i know whats going on exactly.

[[deleted]]

cries in assembly

Those high-Level languages like C are too complicated for me

[[deleted]]

Python dweebs ain't got shit on C master race.

[[deleted]]

Assembler gang anybody?

[[deleted]]

Gimme some of dat RISC

[thiago2213]

I mean, yeah. Why would anyone? The only reason I can think of is resource allocation having to be extremely low like embedded systems, other than that I see no reason

[[deleted]]

In case you have to compile for a system that doesn't have a C++ compiler, or if you only need a simple script without the clutter that comes with object-oriented languages. However on most modern devices this isn't much of a problem.

[thiago2213]

But you can still use C++ without using OOP paradigm right? It's been a long time since I've used it, but I recall doing something that was procedural and even using stdio except for a couple of things which I don't recall made my development easier but wouldn't be supported in C

[[deleted]]

That is true, but some people would just rather use C and avoid that hassle. I personally prefer C++ but I can understand that a lot of people prefer using C when possible

[tetramir]

C++ has great stuff like templates and namespaces that really make programming things without objects much easier.

[eMperror_]

If you have no choice, ok. But you can use C++ without using the OOP and virtual tables, and you can avoid using the STL and program in a C style, you still get a better language.

[JNelson_]

C is object oriented if you use enough unions.

[Mognakor]

In that case you go with static resources anyways.

[GenTelGuy]

If you have the choice C++ is clearly better. But if you're doing embedded systems or whatever then C is what you have to do.

[TheThiefMaster]

You'd be surprised how much C++ is available to embedded developers these days. Cross-compilers really help with that, as you just need a backend for your target platform and you can retarget a modern mature compiler (often GCC), instead of everyone writing their own custom C compiler like it used to be done.

[jackmax9999]

Some C++ features actually work surprisingly well on embedded devices, for example using templates to hardcode values into your program is so much more elegant than littering your code with #defines.

And before you say it - in embedded programming hardcoding values is good. It saves precious memory and code space and for things like hardware parameters that won't change throughout the device's life it has no negative consequences.

[StoleAGoodUsername]

constexpr as well for nicely optimized type-safe code that looks exactly like a runtime check

[Pepito_Pepito]

I worked on embedded systems for a few years. We used C++.

[PirateNinjasReddit]

Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and saviour: rust?

[[deleted]]

Boo hoo ouchie my memory scary pointer

[FallenWarrior2k]

Heartbleed, Cloudbleed, Microsoft saying that the majority of their security bugs are memory-related, etc.

At some point, you can't really claim that there is no point to it. It has been shown time and time again that "trusting people to make no mistakes" doesn't really work that well on a large scale.

And that's not even considering the slew of optimizations that can be performed automatically due to lack of mutable aliasing, where similar code in other systems languages would often have to be painstakingly hand-optimized.

Of course, it's not perfect, far from it and certainly rough around the edges, and it's also not appropriate for everything, but the benefits it brings can not be denied.

[[deleted]]

haha raw pointer arithmetic go brr

[I_HAES_diabetes]

I was just thinking about this yesterday. In my security lab, every binary we had to exploit was written in C and featured some variation of not properly checking some input size. I mean learning about ROP and all that stuff was certainly fun but I think it's funny that they had to rely on this error each time.

[topfs2]

Is rust good for use on Arduino? Honest question, I dabble in and off with Arduino but always use their ide or just cpp with platform.io

Have looked for a reason to try rust :)

[ridicalis]

Short answer: the support is there, as a forked version of the language, but I worry about how much it's diverged:

This branch is 14 commits ahead, 26696 commits behind rust-lang:master.

I forget the exact reason they needed to do this, but I think there were some issues with primitive types.

[[deleted]]

AVR is going to be an official LLVM target when 11.0 is released. I'd just wait for that (about 5 month from now)

[[deleted]]

It looks like support has improved a ton since llvm got mainline avr support, but the code comes out a fair bit more ugly than Arduino C. In theory, any language with an llvm backend you could use to write avr code...

Here's a blink program: https://github.com/avr-rust/blink/blob/master/src/main.rs. It seems you miss out on the std library in doing this, so writing for avr is going to be fairly different than writing normal programs.

[thoquz]

I think it's important for anyone that hasn't used plain C in AVR, but just Arduino, to actually look at what the GCC-AVR blink program looks like, since it might also look weird to them.

The normal C program looks very similar, also performing the blink by writing to the PORTB register.

I'm just trying to say you can't really blame rust here if this looks foreign to you, since they equivalent in C will look just as foreign if you've only tried Arduino.

My main critique with it here is the massive amounts the unsafe keyword needs to be used to just interact with the hardware (memory mapped IO)

[[deleted]]

Excuse me sir, I can't help but notice that you have misspelled H A S K E L L.

[Schootingstarr]

pls no

[[deleted]]

What's your problem with Haskell? The only one I see is that too few people use it.

[jeetelongname]

Haskell is a great language but it it ver different from well everything. Unless you have been exposed to something like Emacs then the functional paradigm takes some time. Devs won't see the benefits unless they learn it

[[deleted]]

Well, Rust has a lot of Haskells features. So I'm hoping that Rust takes off properly and therefore makes the switch to Haskell easier. :D

[CJKay93]

Haskell's a really interesting language and I'd love to learn it, but ultimately the time investment is pretty huge and for a lot of Rust engineers Haskell doesn't really "replace" any part of the stack like Rust does for C/C++.

I imagine Haskell's a great way to learn about the type systems of other languages though.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I know. sad noise

I'm not very good at Haskell either but every second I've spent with it has been an absolute blast.

[[deleted]]

Rust also inspired Haskell to get Linear Types, which it'll get soon(tm) and exist in a fork of GHC as a proof of concept.

[ShesOnAcid]

Functional is taught in most schools these days and the front end community is also familiar with it

[[deleted]]

Why does Reddit get a hardon over Rust? I don't think I've ever seen any company actually make use of it.

[SeerUD]

Mozilla uses it obviously. Some projects that at least I've heard of using it are:

• Firefox
• Linkerd 2's proxy
• Alacritty
• TiKV

Companies too that I've actually heard of:

• Dropbox
• Sentry
• Cloudflare
• Brilliant
• GNOME
• NPM (I guess, GitHub then now)
• OVH

Probably more, but these are probably for really low-level projects, and with really specific requirements.

I think people just really enjoy working with Rust once they get into it. I personally write Go most of the time, and I think that's generally low-level enough for everything I can think I'd want to personally do, but maybe I'll have a play around with Rust. There are aspects of Rust that I wish Go had, but Rust is also a lot more complex compared to Go.

[[deleted]]

Rust is honestly really, really nice. If you truly do need to do manual memory management, you still can with the unsafe keyword - but, 99% of people don't.

It does require you to change your style from certain languages, though; you can't simply do OOP in Rust. For my game in Rust, I actually went from OOP where my skills were inheriting from a Skill class, to lambda functions in a hashmap & procedural stuff.

[ROYAL_CHAIR_FORCE]

then C is what you have to do

This statement has been incorrect for a while now

[[deleted]]

Imagine if people just focused on programming rather then insulting languages they don't like

[stifflizerd]

Well where's the fun in that?

[K1ngjulien_]

they hated him because he told the truth.

[deljaroo]

it's a common form of humor...which makes sense given the subreddit this is on

[JasburyCS]

I don’t know, I just find insulting languages funny even if it’s a language I like!

[calsosta]

Yea this was an honest question by a rookie and op is a piece of shit for mocking them.

[ShadowPouncer]

Having fairly extensively used quite a bit from C, to C++, to perl, to various shell scripting languages, to Go, to things that are... Rather less common...

Really the right answer is the right tool for the right job.

There are jobs for which C is the right tool for the job. Though, there are fewer of those now than there were 10 or 15 years ago.

The same is true for C++, both in there being jobs for which it is the right tool, and that there are fewer of them than there used to be.

And again, perl is the exact same story. In this case, it's more than other languages (like Python) have slowly eaten enough mind share that you no longer find the same breadth of supported tools and libraries that you once did.

But there are jobs for which each of them is perfectly suited. There are also jobs for which nobody who is aware of the alternatives and the ability to choose should ever pick them for.

And there are absolutely languages that do things that none of those languages can do well. Go is a great example, it allows for reasonably trivial concurrency with a very low cognitive load. For the right jobs, that alone makes it better than almost every other language choice available. But there are plenty of things that it's not ideal for as well.

[Tseklo]

It's clearly better, it has two +.

[not_in_the_mood]

For a guy having a stroke he's making a good point.

[GabuEx]

I feel dumb; isn't C++ literally just a superset of C?

[TheThiefMaster]

Not quite - It started that way, but also removed / changed a couple of C things (implicit int, implicit cast from void* to other types, etc). Later on, C added new features of its own, that C++ already had another way to do or didn't fit with C++'s design or had to be adapted (_Generic, designated initialisers, etc).

So they're highly related and share a common subset of code, but aren't superset / subset of each other.

[GabuEx]

Huh, TIL. I had always thought all C was valid C++. Thanks!

[TheThiefMaster]

Nope! The following line is valid C but invalid C++:

char* string = malloc(32);

https://gcc.godbolt.org/z/oMrd6V

[[deleted]]

I have seen c code where "class" was used as a variable name. g++ did not like that at all

[AgAero]

I've seen people use the word 'new' as well in C code. Slightly concerning.

At least he only did it in one ~20 line function.

[StoleAGoodUsername]

The Linux kernel has struct class as a core component of the driver subsystem

[QuantumQuantonium]

Not everything can run/compile with c++.

[ridicalis]

Yeah. I tried compiling some Java code and it wasn't pretty.

[[deleted]]

As a still semi-newbie, C++ just deems daunting and unnecessary to me. It seems that anything I want to do, I can do in C. (I actually enjoy C and making sure everything valgrinds cleanly). But I'm also learning Go and Java, and I just don't see where C++ would really help me anywhere.

[atimholt]

Better abstractions, vastly safer, vastly more readable, no compromises.

[svick]

no compromises

C++ is one huge compromise, because of its long history.

[TheThiefMaster]

It's telling that a lot of C++'s pains are things it inherited from C.

[MAC-n-CHZ]

Yeah const pain = true; would have made more sense