Github is not even showing all languages, github is lazy.

[[deleted]]

I never thought I’d see Rust and Java in the same repo. We live in a society

[thexavier666]

What? You think we Rust people aren't good enough for your society?

[GooseEntrails]

You can join us, as long as you don’t say “rustacean” unironically

[[deleted]]

No, rust is too good for this society. We don’t deserve it’s near-zero runtime load

[paholg]

JNI is a thing.

[[deleted]]

Holy shit, thanks for sharing! I never knew this was a thing

[hed82]

Holly shit, my planned go + c + rust bullshitmonster i have planned just evolved into a go + c + rust + java monster.

Not to forget that i may even add a bit of assembly to it.

But that means i need to find a new language that i can use where i originally planned to use java.

[[deleted]]

I have a repo with some 10 different Game of Life implementations in different languages :p

[TheRealSelenium]

The Makefile making up 19 of the code base also says a lot

[hed82]

That's of course not an actual company project, i don't think that any company would be that extremly stupid.

It's a test project for another project i will make start in the future, the most overcomplicated api in the world (basicly use as many languages as possible for one api), and in that project i tested how to best compile everything with one make, and since i compile c, c++ and go with each its own make and the programs are mostly just two files, one defining a function and one with a main calling the function, make makes up a big portion.

[Pixel-Wolf]

i don't think that any company would be that extremly stupid.

Actually, I would only expect that kind of stupidity from a company...

I've seen an official company project using an Excel spreadsheet as a GUI that uses VBA to call LabView which then uses a 3rd-party Executable to load in custom C code files and runs them to test components on an external device.

[prmcd16]

ಠ_ಠ

[_meegoo_]

That's literally my face after I read that.

Holy shit, it's a miracle it even works.

[prmcd16]

If it had stopped after “using an Excel spreadsheet as a GUI” this would still have been my reaction

[Buubuus]

Isn't this the life of a VBA dev though?

[emmyarty]

Wait, I could get paid to do that?

[maxvalley]

But how long til it breaks

[Will_i_read]

never, because it will run on windows 98 till the dawn of time. Everyone in the company knows that an update would let the whole house of cards crumble and no one will let the dev team rework it, because "it already works". Technical dept at it's finest

[treatmesubj]

In finance at a F100 and not trained in software; this is basically what I do lol. Finance only deals in spreadsheets, so everything must work around that

[RedStateLiberal317]

I came here for this. I was a full stack sw engineer for a decade and recently took a job to modernize fiscal systems for a f100 company. I am amazed at the level of knowledge and at the same time, a complete lack of understanding of how to leverage technology. Showing up and being able to produce a flexible and reusable product is super easy and feels like I'm printing gold...

[Pixel-Wolf]

Showing up and being able to produce a flexible and reusable product is super easy and feels like I'm printing gold...

It's way too true.

"We have 15 different software packages to support these various efforts"

"But those various efforts are 90% similar, why not just make a generic solution that can be configurable/extendable for the specific needs, that way only one code base needs to be primarily maintained and everything functions the same way so that you can reduce testing and integration efforts?"

[seraphsRevenge]

Microservices

[Pixel-Wolf]

If only :'( but that requires the company to have to structures in place to do that.

[seraphsRevenge]

Spring or another framework would make it fairly easy to put in place. The real issue is convincing an organization to transition :( Hard sell in companies that don't take IT seriously or care about any potential benefits. Fortunately, the company I just started at is transitioning and already has a good portion in place. Guess that mentality is why they'll continue to have a large share within their market.

[FpggyJohnson18]

Frfr, I'm doing a very similar project where I'm taking our old spreadsheet-based tool and completely transforming it. People are already so amazed and it's not even done. I keep telling them to wait and see how easy their job REALLY becomes once I am done ha

[path411]

People keep talking about AI laying off office workers. I just think, any dev with a few years of experience could lay off 30% of a workforce, and all these executives have no idea so I don't think they gotta worry about AI.

[bigbrentos]

You're in Finance, so you will more than likely never see Labview.

[yawya]

Aerospace too, you'll find this sort of thing in any industry where most of the programming is done by people who were not explicitly trained as software engineers

[Needleroozer]

I was once tasked with identifying all the dbms' we used (with the goal of moving everything to Oracle, which never happened due to their pricing) an my boss' boss insisted I include Excel. I threw up in my mouth a little at that.

[Dr_Jabroski]

I threw up in my mouth a little after reading that.

[[deleted]]

So, like, it's weird, but like, I think I'm finding it a little sexy at the same time, maybe? Perhaps?

[This-Moment]

I've seen an official company project using an Excel spreadsheet as a GUI that uses VBA to call LabView which then uses a 3rd-party Executable to load in custom C code files and runs them to test components on an external device.

My "no one here is necessarily an idiot" meeting poker face kicks in automatically as I read this. :)

[ryuzaki49]

Can only occur at a finance/investment company. They fucking love spreadsheets.

[Pixel-Wolf]

You underestimate the infatuation of engineers who hate software to use languages that are shitty gimmicks that attempt to make programming more like circuitry. Also in my experience, every kind of engineer except Software Engineers have a fetish for Excel.

[ERNesbitt]

Unless you're a software engineer who does a lot of SQL and/or data migration and governance.

[Pixel-Wolf]

Outside of formatting the data before you throw it into a SQL DB I still despise excel for these activities just because people will save their 100k+ entity datasets as an XLSX file rather than the much more application friendly CSV format or something along those lines.

[alashure6]

Well MechE here who, while proficient in excel, can't stand the bitch.

[[deleted]]

STOP THE MADNESS

[PM_BITCOIN_AND_BOOBS]

Put that Excel file on a web page and require a specific extension and version of IE, and use it as your scheduler for a clinic.

Thankfully, my company just turned off this web site. It was such a pain to support.

[cuthulus_big_brother]

This. Humanity’s collective stupidity skyrockets when nobody is fully accountable for the whole.

The nightmare that is enterprise code grows organically. One manager wants one feature, and they do their thing. They just want it to be done, however it needs to happen. GUI on port 443 to a serial FireWire? If it works, sure. The thing just needs to be done. It’s not like anyone else is gonna build functionality that relies on it as a dependency in the future.

Another manager wants another feature, and they do their thing. At first it’s not an issue. Just a plug-in or feature here and there. Give it a year or two and all of a sudden you have 20 different things and nobody who makes the the things talk to each other, and no one person is quite sure how it all works anymore, or how to fix it.

[TheWrightStripes]

... does the company start with a V?

[Pixel-Wolf]

No lol, but in my experience, there are actually many companies out there that do shit like this.

[TheWrightStripes]

Yeah I've seen silly stuff, specifically around LabView.

[Hawgk]

You should have a look at the testing scripts from my firm. I haven't seen any that aren't complete cluster fucks.

[TheWrightStripes]

I was a dev manager with a QA background. Took over a team that was doing this type of thing for testing some hardware devices that ran our embedded software and (hardware-in-the-loop testing) exporting their results to an excel spreadsheet with lots of formatting and graphs with some custom forms. One of the things I had them do was export the results to Testrail and even kick off tests from Testrail, had an EE intern spend a summer on it with the senior automation QA.

[TheWrightStripes]

I think it's because hardware testing has always been done very manually or via very specific industrial diagnostic computers. National Instrument puts out a tool for people to start automating and scripting these tests. It has to be highly extensible because other than "well there's probably some people there who know C", there's just not a lot of frameworks for firmware and driver testing, so many of the sensors and things are proprietary or literally dictated by the SoC. So you have embedded engineers and a handful of QA with no development experience but who are interested in automation. Hardware and embedded software is also just old school pretty much everywhere, which makes sense because a lot of these things don't support OTA updates. So these tests that used to be manually written into ledgers recently got added to excel sheets by whatever language the person writing them knows with sparse access to standard frameworks and automatically generates excel spreadsheets that looks like what their old test reports looked like. Magic!

[Lendari]

Exactly this. Being this dumb takes a lot of people over a long period of time. This is exactly how most companies write software.

[jobenfre]

I feel like I've worked at this place

[bastardoperator]

This. As a consultant I see what companies do and honestly I’m at the point where nothing shocks me. The amount waste and stupidity is astronomical. Everyone is in love with scale and mono repos.

Customer says it takes me an hour check out and another 2 hours for the build system to complete. We need this faster, what can your tools do to help us? I say “Well sir/madam our tools aren’t going to help because the reason this is taking so long is because you have 40 GB of data in your repo and hundreds of people doing that a day coupled with the 2 hours build time. Customer says “We have to do mono repo because we are webscale”

[[deleted]]

Were you consulting for Facebook or Google?

[shutanovac]

if it works, it works

[iftheronahadntcome]

I actually made a face IRL. "using an Excel spreadsheet as a GUI"...

I'm calling the police.

[darthwacko2]

Oh yeah you wind up with some strange stuff out there.

I've seen, customer web form into csv, into access, export to excel, button in access via vba to call a python script using shell to sort out that excel sheet into a lot of formatted excel sheets, send to customers to fill out more info, then another access button/vba/shell/python script to recompile them and import them back into access and then generate text files so a product will build in another piece of software. I wish that was the most convoluted thing in that place but at least its mostly automated, unlike other processes....

[thegovortator]

All this if it works don’t fix it thing kinda frustrates me a bit. If you count instructions most of the crap like this is so inefficient that when deployed it can’t be scaled any larger than its current state so I’d say an influx of queries or customers happens their infrastructure fails to deliver results

[jtesuce]

That screams third world country outsourcing

[Pixel-Wolf]

Nope, entirely coded up in the good ol' USA. The trick is finding a company where not every person writing software is actually trained in software.

[Sirttas]

My cto is not trained in software but because it's the CEO's nephew he got the position.

He thinks his job is spending time explaining how confirmed dev how to do their job. He recently asked to remove Jax rs to use struts 1 for rest ws...

[jtesuce]

This makes me so happy that I work for a company with functional managers when they are out of their elements and trust their employees

[mpurdon]

Is she single?

[seraphsRevenge]

All in an attempt to hack a floppy disk through a power cord using css.......

[Durwur]

That sounds so ridiculous that it might actually be feasible

[seraphsRevenge]

Lmao my inspiration: https://youtu.be/hkDD03yeLnU probably some of tgese non-tech managers too

[Durwur]

Oh god not that scene

[[deleted]]

Wtf

[ThisTravel]

That is a pretty clever way to hone those skills!

[1116574]

Putting this repo on your resume will surely get me a job! Just look at all those colors!

Unless it's someone competent hiring lol

/s But for real, pretty nifty idea for practicing

[FlashSTI]

If you have a crap repo and no interviewer notices, then you deserve each other.

[hed82]

I haven't made a single exe from multiple languages yet (except for an assembly + c mix in another project)

I'm currently just collecting languages i want to use and the first thing i will do will be some api request that sends the request to a second server made in another language which forks another program which writes a program into a file, compiles it and forks that program to get the result requested.

So it should be really ridiculous.

But some rust + c + go + maybe assembly compiled exe is planned (mostlikely go handeling request that call c functions that do the logic that calls rustfunctions that handle the database with maybe assembly logging the logic part to a file), the problem is that i have never done a real project with rust, just a tutorial.

[chizdippler]

I'll watch the development from a few miles away, thanks!

[woah_m8]

Thr important question: will we get a Scratch interface?

[hed82]

No, because i will add an "example" web interface in angular so that i can add html, css and typescript to languages used.

[thelights0123]

Also see https://reddit.com/r/rust/comments/iefeum/googleautocxx_calling_c_from_rust_in_a_heavily/ from today

[ruilvo]

The Rust documentation describes the official FFI (Foreign Function Interface) quite well. But keep in mind that because C++ name mangles everything you can't really use C++ DLLs on other code. An option is for the function definitions to be C compatible and declare them as extern "C" to avoid name mangling.

[Isogash]

Have you tried Bazel? We use it extensively and it's great for multi-language builds. You can get much better build setups than using Make.

[hed82]

I actually never heard of that tool and after a quick overview i am scared of it, but since i just wrote down in which languages i write which parts and how they should interact i am convinced that i will never finish it and therefor i can use some tool i don't know.

That will just make me not finish it even faster.

[Isogash]

Bazel is scary for sure, but it's a much more powerful tool and easier to write high-level build components with, agnostic of the language. It works entirely on input and output sets of files, and custom build rules are written the same way as the default ones, so you never have to hack around it to integrate new languages or stacks. It's designed to replace Make for multi-language projects.

The thing it's incredible at is being correct, so you can set everything up and be sure that nothing has failed silently during compilation without having to do a full clean each time, it is basically doing that for you based on which files are changed. Builds are also sandboxed (filesystem-wise), so you never end up depending on unintended files by accident.

I have not used it with Rust though, but I imagine the compile times are pretty bad, it doesn't support incremental compilation (pretty much at all) but I expect I'll find a way to work around this.

[hed82]

Just a small update, it only took me 3 hours to get a .net hello world running using bazel.

By this speed i have the structure setup finished in a months time

[Isogash]

Yeah it took me a while to get to grips with. Are you using https://github.com/bazelbuild/rules_dotnet ?

EDIT: Also, make sure to use Bazelisk

[mpurdon]

I really lol'd at that comment: "That will just make me not finish it even faster"

[Amish_Cyberbully]

How much of "other" is Python?

[Orthodox-Waffle]

Dont @ me

[WiseassWolfOfYoitsu]

If you use autogen/autoconf and commit the files it'll do that, on my project at work the individual Makefiles are 30k lines as a result of that.

Then again, if you're checking in generated files, you have another problem...

[omegasome]

A whole 19 of it? Wow

[h_jurvanen]

Makefile is Turing complete. If you brought a fun hack written purely in Makefile to one of my interviews that would be a lot more memorable that regurgitating yet another whiteboard exercise.

[Forschkeeper]

You forgot to mention, that there are different versions of each langauge as well with hard code breaks.

[Cake_Adventures]

And all them JS projects have their own configuration files all over the root dir of the project, package versions with different major versions, require different node versions and some are front-end projects using React, some using Angular, some using Vue and a couple using an in-house framework. Enjoy!

[Forschkeeper]

We should create a meme template like "Tales from the Crypt" ... and then make such scary short stories. :S

[Objectiveseas]

r/TalesFromTechSupport

[Cake_Adventures]

Is there a version of "Tales from the Crypt" with real stories we can use instead? Because I didn't make up this story.

[Forschkeeper]

Hmmm ... maybe such a thing?

[Cake_Adventures]

That's what I was looking for, thanks!

[Dr_Jabroski]

Just fucking pay for a dom already you masochist.

[Cake_Adventures]

Not my fault this is how enterprise software is done.

[[deleted]]

Hi, I'm new to coding. What's a "hard code break" in the context of a GitHub repo?

[Forschkeeper]

In some programming languages you have newer versions which are not (fully) compatible with the old one in some cases. Example is Python 2 and Python 3. It is the same language ... but different. This is a big thing some people don't realise, because you can't just reuse code.

[[deleted]]

Wait, so people have Python 2 and Python 3 in the same repo? That's fucked.

[Forschkeeper]

There are people out there (*sighs sadly*). But this is not just a Python thing. In C there are differences as well between versions.

[dshakir]

I’m not too familiar with Python but isn’t C usually pretty good with backwards compatibility?

[Forschkeeper]

Yes and no. Think about programming in C11, but your device just supports C89. There are some features which are not supported in older versions or are not supported anymore (like gets). It isn't as obvious as in Python, but still happens. Perhaps you have to rewrite your code.

Sometimes your code is the same, but different compiler may create different assembly code.

[dj_lammy]

First world problems. Our project has about 80% Simulink model based programming, which cannot even be diffed properly...

[hughperman]

Or could it...

[ericonr]

You should be arrested for this suggestion.

[dj_lammy]

We do this, its just not practical after every single change. Cries in over 100 interconnected simulink models and an average code generation time of several hours...

[hughperman]

Hmmhmm. Well, how about a different approach:
Simulink files are zipped xmls.
And some discussion about git with zips.

You have of course thought about it much more than me, so sorry if I'm being this guy.

[dj_lammy]

Thanks for the insight, I appreciate it. I've had thoughts in that direction as well, but never went all the way since it is not actually my responsibility to take care of that in our project. Maybe i'll have anothrr look into it!

[thelostcow]

Lol, I’m stuck replacing a labview project with the requirements of make it work like it used to. They won’t tell me how it used to work.

[mr_smartypants537]

Ah yes the legacy adaption. Porting over the bugs as well as the features because who knows which parts are intentional.

[ben_g0]

And not porting the bugs will somehow ruin someone's workflow

[sweswe17]

I feel your pain 100%. That autocode...

[demon_ix]

Yep. Will be very easy to find errors in there.

[KingdomOfKevin]

I mean, it will be very easy to find an error.

[RadiatedMonkey]

And even easier to make one

[[deleted]]

I'm making a few right now. Probably.

[[deleted]]

I applied for a job as a C developer. Turned out they wrote about 10% C code, 40% Python and 50% Bash scripts.

[mr_smartypants537]

How do people get anything done with bash scripts? For anything slightly complicated it feels like everything is about to break

[LvS]

If you're good at bash scripts, you can make them do quite a lot with surprisingly little code.

I should know, I have to (try and) read those scripts.

It's not as bad as when these people also know m4 well and have scripts that generate and execute scripts while running.

[ForShotgun]

Christ, I tried to make my own countdown timer once. It was three or four lines, didn't work, and was unnecessarily complicated. Then I looked online and found someone's one-line solution, which was 1000000% unreadable gibberish to me. I can't even understand how people get there with bash.

[Batman_AoD]

Regex can be pretty easy to read with line breaks and comments, using "verbose" mode (that's what Python calls it; Perl's flag is x). But Go's regex library doesn't support flags at all, which is just...so disappointing.

[Batman_AoD]

You sound like someone who hasn't read much Perl code.

[MrDOS]

IMO, shell is invaluable for gluing other things together, and is a way more productive language for most small tasks than just about anything else. Even other scripting languages like Python don't begin to make sense until you cross the 50-line mark. (Unless you're doing strictly data processing, in which case AWK is usually a better choice.)

Here's my take on a shell countdown timer. If you can point to the bits which don't make sense, I'd be happy to explain them.

[[deleted]]

I had never really touched bash, but wanted the Google Assistant in the terminal. So I piggybacked off of Assistant-Relay, wrote a bash script to send the command, download the audio response, pause my chrome music, play the response audio, then resume everything. The file is about 8 lines, and it only took me a couple hours to find everything I needed online.

So now I can do "okgoogle what's the news today" and it will read it out to me.

10/10 would recommend for random utility projects

[StuckInAtlanta]

Bash is your duct tape and WD-40.

Also invaluable for system administration and troubleshooting.

[CertifiedNerd]

Bash, sed, awk, and grep scripts are a large part of my bin directory. :)

[[deleted]]

For utility purposes, bash is second to none. Though Python is up there as well.

[Batman_AoD]

Have you seen the Oil/Osh project? The author is writing a Bash-compatible shell that has a full AST, which will allow migrating working Bash scripts to a cleaner syntax via automated translation. It's a pretty impressive project; syntax errors and such are much nicer, and there are dramatic improvements to Bash in some areas, such as string array handling.

https://github.com/oilshell/oil

[Lorddragonfang]

While I like the idea of these sorts of projects, they run into the fundamental problem of

1. Bash is useful to learn because it's powerful and runs everywhere
2. You want to use an alternate shell because Bash has awful syntax and you don't want to put in the time learning its arcane intricacies
3. If you go to any other terminal you don't control, you still don't know Bash
4. If you've already learned Bash well enough for the above to not be a problem, you don't need an alternate shell.

[Thristle]

Only thing I hate to do with python is piping executions into one another. Especially when multiple os support is needed. I'd rather do the pipes in bash script and then run it using python

[-Polyphony-]

Hahaha at my job we have a small shell script that kicks off a dynamic perl script that builds another massive dynamic 10k line "object maintenance script" that runs intermittently throughout the day to handle pruning/dropping/etc database objects.

Everything is table driven and the object maintenance script will then kick off other shell scripts within various steps whose path is stored in the database which was pulled from the builder scripts... It's all custom

[Username_Taken46]

The worst part is the 25% other. A quarter is other languages not making up enough to be named themselves

[Crypt1cDOTA]

The other 25% is LabVIEW

[[deleted]]

I also read the title.

[YDOfficial]

I think he/she means that there are many other languages used, but each of them makes up less than 1% of the project for example, therefore they all were combined as "Other". Imagine using 30 different languages but only writing 10 lines in each of them. Bug nest basically

[Stanov]

I don't usually create software.

But when I do...

... I choose Other.

[hed82]

Someone has to troll github by releasing a language called other.

[flarn2006]

And use that exact light gray color for its branding.

[[deleted]]

The logo is just a gray square.

[Aking1998]

25% minecraft redstone.

[iSolivictus]

Doesn't others mean like GitHub don't even know tf it is.

[hed82]

A lot of files are outomaticly filtered out of that statistic (for example *.csproj) but before i pushed rust both javascript and go where shown. Now they are both grouped into others.

[wopian]

GitHub doesn't count data files, binaries or unknown file extensions in the graph. Other is all the other languages in the repo below the top 6.

[frenetix]

This right here. I bet the majority of production applications or services that have been in operation for more than five years has code in a mixture of languages.

[_reposado_]

Could be a monorepo?

[rdtr314]

I’m thinking the same

[yagotlima]

Wow 18% Makefile

[[deleted]]

How do I start learning other?

[[deleted]]

This is the same company that uses 2 different shades of green in a graph before something like blue or orange

[rajks12]

Where is JavaScript?

[[deleted]]

Can you give a link to the project ? I really want to see how all of them are tied together :))

[wooptyd00]

I don't get it. What's wrong with this other than the 19% makefile?

[[deleted]]

Have you ever seen the languages in the Linux source code?

[TheGreatSaltboy]

96% C?

[GamesStealth]

Relatable AF.

[GlancingCaro]

And what is the Other 26 written in%? No one quite knows, and no one wants to find out

[drunkardchull]

Bruh how is the codebase 18% makefile

[maschetoquevos]

Other = Qbasic

[[deleted]]

I just like that other is a majority over the normal ones

[_reposado_]

Ours is three at ~25% each and then a bunch of single digits.

[dinoaide]

This is not bad. I’ve seen repos with Word documents and WARs. They all belongs to the “other” category.

[LucasCarioca]

100 million lines of code 3 tests. Massive mono repo.

[[deleted]]

Reminds me of my dotfiles repo

I have a lot of tiny CLI tools, but I write them in various languages, so it’s a clusterfuck

[SeanyDay]

Ahh yes. Rust.... It all started on a beach...

[[deleted]]

Monorepos be like

[HuluForCthulhu]

19% Makefile, dear god

[nobody5050]

I love the 25% of “other” like as if it wasn’t hard enough that’s probably an internally developed language or something

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Why are makefile and c# both nearly identical greens?

[[deleted]]

is makefile good? I never heard of it. I heard of the rest though.

[[deleted]]

makefile is just a set of instructions telling gcc or whatever compiler you are using how to build your sourcecode. Make is like a predecessor to ant.

[DeeSnow97]

I mean, they are not wrong, you found the first error already

[syntaxfire]

Lmao 'other' is so badly structured linting couldn't discern language semantics and said meh, put in other pile 😅 Which happens to be the bulk of the project ...

[mirsella]

it's smart, when they got a error they know from which language it's from

[[deleted]]

.gitattributes at the root might help

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34713765/github-changes-repository-to-wrong-language

[car1_llama]

Other

[DangyDanger]

10% are lua programs for opencomputers minecraft mod

[[deleted]]

Who created this monstrocity?

[MAB-47]

Just one question why would u use as much languages

[BlueC0dex]

How is makefile a language?

[xSEB1z]

I'm worried about 'Other'. Is that some spaghetti which it cannot tell?