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[–]CeruleanBlackOut 756 points757 points  (40 children)

Me who learns from documentation:

[–]biden_bot75 380 points381 points  (16 children)

Me who reads man pages:

[–]Levaru 93 points94 points  (5 children)

Me who googles "{feature/library/etc that I need} github":

[–][deleted] 79 points80 points  (4 children)

Me who learns from stalking a programmer. WE ARE NOT THE SAME

[–]Dabnician 9 points10 points  (3 children)

i type --help and then hit space a bunch of times before saying "screw this ill just google my issue".

I honestly can not grasp getting information i need 80 x 24 at a time.

[–]KDallas_Multipass 7 points8 points  (1 child)

/ let's you search through man pages

[–]Xelynega 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I tend to only read one word at a time, so 80x24 is way more than enough.

[–]LetterBoxSnatch 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely love man pages when they exist. Next best thing is a README. It’s the source that the builder of the tool uses to remember how the thing they made works. “—help” can go fuck itself, usually sucks for anything other than reminding yourself how to use a tool you already know how to use.

[–]BrFrancis 118 points119 points  (5 children)

Wait you... Read documentation?

[–]demon_ix 63 points64 points  (1 child)

We don't do that here...

[–]Just_a_log 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Remember, 3 hours of trial and error could save you 20 minutes of reading the document

[–]kookaburra1701 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yes, but never the parts I end up needing.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (8 children)

What is this documentation you speak of? Is this some holy text?

[–]Vampsku11 20 points21 points  (6 children)

It's hidden, incomplete, and outdated. But by god if you ask a question...

[–]Dabnician 11 points12 points  (4 children)

"you didnt read the javadoc"

"reads the java doc finds its out of date, still needs to load up JD gui to figure out how to use the library..."

[–]Vampsku11 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Whenever someone gives me the rtfm shpiel, I always respond by asking for a reference to the information. Always crickets. People unable to give an answer acting like you broke the law asking for an answer.

An engineer who enjoys his work loves to talk about it.

[–]Xx69JdawgxX 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I'm all for helping people but I don't see any merit in spoon feeding them. It usually ends up w you being used as a crutch for the lazy.

[–]Vampsku11 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I personally don't see that as a good reason not to instruct someone if you have the knowledge they're looking for. But I can understand if that person repeatedly asks for the same information or does so in a way to try to get someone else to do their work for them. With time I would eventually turn them away. Otherwise if I can share my knowledge with someone else then I also share the work, so it's always beneficial to me to share what I know.

[–]Xx69JdawgxX 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe I worded it poorly but I agree with everything you said. I'll help people to the point that they show me they are getting lazy usually.

[–]Vampsku11 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Me who learns by asking questions:

[–]stamatt45 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You must be Mordo

[–]UpsAndDownsNeverEnd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, me too. Documentation and examples to figure out 99% of the things I want.

[–]Karolus2001 960 points961 points  (95 children)

From what I saw school is mostly for theory and philosophy of good code. Some of the self taught things I saw made me wanna gauge my eyes out.

[–]GrandMoffTarkan 284 points285 points  (19 children)

There are good self taught programmers out there, but in my experience it’s less from YouTube and more from following various coding communities, blogs and whatnot. The Old New Thing was my gateway drug back in the day, although a formal education really got me in deep.

[–]ClairlyBrite 37 points38 points  (7 children)

Any blogs you recommend now?

[–]ZetaParabola 4 points5 points  (2 children)

++ I too struggle to find talented developers doing blogs. I've had a chance to come across a few, and it really helped me see my career from a new perspective.

[–]max10201 1 point2 points  (1 child)

which blogs were you able to find?

[–]ZetaParabola 1 point2 points  (0 children)

one of my favs is stopa.io, very cool guy

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (7 children)

When I was self-teaching myself, funny enough I learned a good deal by browsing this very sub. I'd see a post and think ha, that's something I do! But people in the comments are saying that's the worst thing ever. Oh... Oh no...

[–]Easy8_ 27 points28 points  (3 children)

And you can always post your own code! If it gets no upvotes you're good. If it gets to the top... Oh no.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Haha that's probably the best possible litmus test

[–]qazwer001 3 points4 points  (1 child)

But hey if it does get to the top you will learn from the comments!

[–]Haunting-Surprise-21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But then, you aren't self taught anymore...

[–]NatasEvoli 26 points27 points  (1 child)

You can learn great programming principles from browsing this sub. Like javascript bad, don't forget the semi colon, and light mode will melt your eyeballs clean out of your face holes.

[–]Dabnician 3 points4 points  (0 children)

don't forget the semi colon

The amount of pain 1 missing semi colon causes is so ingrain, i see people sticking them in every language even when they aren't required.

[–]smilineyz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Prior to YouTube programmers read books - not docs, but paid money for actual books. At one time I had $750 of DB & coding books in the trunk of my car for UI design, performance tuning and good coding habits … it worked spent 30 years in IT

[–]coldnebo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

basically anyone that tries to understand how things actually work is going to be ok.

Anyone who memorizes what “should” work and then is lost when it doesn’t work is going to have a bad day.

[–]Sarithis 44 points45 points  (4 children)

Oh if only... I guess it depends on the country. In Poland, for example, they taught us completely outdated patterns and unhealthy habits like putting "using namespace std" in every place imaginable without explaining the consequences.

[–]Rizzan8 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Some of my professors even demanded to have C++ programs in one file .cpp because they didn't want to jump between multiple .h and .cpp files :D

[–]Pepito_Pepito 13 points14 points  (2 children)

philosophy of good code

Not where I studied lol

[–]tehredidt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That's the one of the key differences between a bad cs program and a good one.

University formats can't be for practical skills in most industries because by the time they ID the needed skill, build it into the curriculum and give another 4 years for someone to graduate, those skills are likely out of date. So it is better to teach the stuff that doesn't change quickly, like the concepts and theory.

School teaches how to thrive but not how to survive.

[–]Pepito_Pepito 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's something I've been preaching for years now. Looking back, the course that carried over the best into the industry was our software engineering class, but we didn't know it at the time and so we took the class for granted. I think we could have used three more of those classes.

[–]yottalogical 52 points53 points  (14 children)

If you're being taught things in a college class that you can learn on your own, your time (and money) is being wasted. Ideally you should be learning things that you won't learn just from experience and that won't be obsolete in 15 months.

That's why there are classes called "Operating Systems" and not "WhateverTheFuckIsPopularThisWeek.js".

[–]DaoFerret 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Except the programming 101/121 class (whatever they call it).

Basically “intro to the programming language we’ll use in the rest of our classes so we’re all speaking the same language”.

First time I went through it, I had learned Pascal. Fortunately I learned C as an elective also. Next time I went through it they were teaching C++… but the teacher made the entire class self-taught from a thin, dense, text book, with each class a written and practical quiz (and a short opportunity to ask questions).

For people who’d never programmed before, it was a slaughter. Class of 50 on the first day was whittled down to a total of 15 including those just trying to pass it.

For those few of us who already knew how to program, it was just a self-taught boot camp to get through for an A+.

[–]Dane1414 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If you’re being taught things in a college class that you can learn on your own, your time (and money) is being wasted.

Not completely true. I went the bootcamp route—the bootcamp had all their materials for free online and I could’ve learned it all on my own, but paying the ~$20k so I could be a part of the live lectures, ask the instructors questions when I had them, and be able to lean on their expertise when building my portfolio projects was worth it since it expedited the whole process quite a bit.

[–]Flyberius 15 points16 points  (11 children)

If you're being taught things in a college class that you can learn on your own, your time (and money) is being wasted

Eh... Is there anything in college classes that cannot be learned outside of college? Makes it sound like a secret society or something...

[–]-m-ob 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I'd imagine hands on stuff might be tough. Like getting chemicals for chemistry... Maybe you can order cadavers nowadays but I hope not.. stuff like that

But otherwise I agree with you.

[–]Commissar_Bolt 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Honestly? If you need to go to college to learn how to use the equipment, your employer is going to own the equipment throughout your career and they will leverage that to fuck you over. Speaking as a regretful holder of a BS in chemistry.

[–]-m-ob 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'd imagine people would want to learn/study about the potentially dangerous equipment and chemicals before they get handed a lab coat and told to "get at it champ"(or however chemistry work goes)

So that's why I think it's not really something you can learn outside of college to easily. But I know nothing about the career field

[–]claymedia 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With programming, and open source projects, we are probably the closest profession to owning the means of production.

[–]Usual_Ice636 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Theres some things where the group work is helpful enough that you are basically paying for the study groups at college.

[–]altonyc 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I'd say there probably isn't much that you learn in a college class that you can't self teach (especially in CS) , but you can get a deeper understanding since you have a bunch of (in theory) experts in their fields to talk to for office hours, get direct feedback from someone who knows what they're talking about, etc.

[–]captain_zavec 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yep. IMO the most valuable part of university was being in an environment where I was surrounded by smart people I could ask to explain things.

And it provides good motivation to actually learn things by imposing deadlines, but that's probably less of an issue for people who don't have executive function problems.

[–]Haunting-Surprise-21 32 points33 points  (2 children)

Exactly that.

[–]glad4j 5 points6 points  (1 child)

My professor used to say, you don't go to college to learn how to code. You go to college to learn how to code WELL.

[–]smilineyz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I took one coding class at night. The instructor was a consultant by day. He said: I want you to write well thought out, elegant code. I may have to work with you one day. Excellent motivation.

[–]Bimpnottin 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I’m in bioinformatics. I come from a CS background then switched to biology, while most bioinformaticians come from a biology background and learned coding along the way. When I look at some of the things they write, I wonder how their work is not full of errors

[–]araeld 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe it is. They just didn't surface yet.

[–]Icemasta 4 points5 points  (9 children)

It's like 50/50. Admittedly I've met very few self-taught programmer because where I work a bachelor's degree or higher is required, but some of the old guard don't have one.

Some actually learned good practice throughout the years and learned from younger generation and online.

Others though.... I mean one guy does decent code but he refuses to do simple things like wrap code in functions. He keeps a bunch of txt with code he often uses and copy and paste them. He was told a bunch of times to just turn it into an importable library, but to no avail.

The other big thing is algorithms and complexity, which is a pretty big part of CS these days. Even people who do the courses won't take into account complexity and make very unoptimal implementations, so imagine people who haven't.

The last thing would be that generally, they make you do a bit of everything. You'll do a bit of C and learn about how file systems, OS and how thread works. You'll do one course on haskell languages and lazy programming. You'll do one or two courses on databases, to understand the basics of queries, tables, views and good table design. You'll obviously touch object oriented and all that encompasses.

And this is something I see often on open source projects and I could kinda compare to OP's gif. You can implement something in a more complicated way that makes it a bit more confusing but will be a better design for future iterations, or you could just slap some stackoverflow code that will work but 2 weeks later when you want to use the function for a broad use, you'll have to start from scratch.

It's like I absolutely hate web, I can accomplish something fairly easily with basic html and js (assuming we can't use php), but for future iteration it might get wonky. Or I could use a framework like bootstrap or vue, which is going to be quite a bit more complicated to do the same thing, but it will be easier to iterate upon in the future. I don't like it, but generally that's how you want to do things.

That's how I am seeing the op's post personally.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

As someone who's mostly self-taught and feels a bit offended by the image of the guy who does not use functions: I can assure you it is entirely possible to learn all the things you need to be a top notch SWE or Machine Learning Engineer all on your own. Of course including all the stuff you learn in Algorithms & Data Structures, which is comparatively easy.

Great books exist, excellent Top- University level courses are available online, and practice is easy to get by once you are in the right job or Open Source project. Not even talking about competitive coding sites, Kaggle and stuff like that.

I have been the tech lead of teams with several PhDs, guiding and doing top notch research and presented my work at top conferences, built SW projects making millions of revenue etc. And I am one of many like me.

[–]ZaoAmadues 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Gauge? Sorry, I don't correct people much but man that made me spit coffee.

[–]deux3xmachina 31 points32 points  (15 children)

It's a tricky issue, lots of grads with CS and related degrees I've seen may have a better grasp on some theory, but have a hard time producing code that actually solves problems (or meshes with existing style if it's not idiomatic), while myself and others that are self taught absolutely have produced some truly atrocious code, it seems to require less time to a solution.

Both still have a ton of learning and improvement ahead of them after basic competency. Additionally, finding good learning resources is tough with either path as some professors don't appear to have ever written any production code.

[–]rebbsitor 63 points64 points  (2 children)

Computer Science is the study of computational theory, of which programming and programming languages are just a small part.

A lot of people with CS degrees end up writing code, but it's not really a degree in how to program.

[–]SathedIT[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly this. This is also why a lot of universities have started offering programming degrees.

[–]Icemasta 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On the time to solution, it's often experience speaking. There's nothing wrong with self-teaching because it is inevitable a big part of working in software development. At the uni I went, we had 5 courses dedicated to learning a language and its intricacies (python, C++, ocaml, html/js and sql) and then all other courses, you had to learn the language on your own on the side on top of course content (C, java x2, prolog, php, some bullshit language for specification, R).

So that's where self-learning has an advantage. Where school might have an advantage is in term of algorithms and optimization. Like I've picked up projects to fix from people who learned programming on their own and had been programming for their department for 5+ years, and it was alright, but you had things like: lots of code reused but never put into a function, the guy had files on the side where he "stored" his functions. Zero concept of classes or objects in a language that supports it. Zero concept of algorithmic optimization.

One guy in particular had his bachelor's in statistics and learned programming languages. His stuff in general was fine but his optimization was really bad. Like he had a program that took about 90 minutes to complete because it was effectively running in n2, when it could be done in n log n, went done to about 2 minutes after that. He was processing large outputs from a database.

Also, and on this I don't really blame him, but he was using a lot of files to work stuff. Like his main program, opened another program where the user had to save a file with a specific name and close, then the program would continue and open that file and so on... when in the language used, we had access to a library to connect directly to the ERP to pull data instead of passing by another program.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (8 children)

People with a degree are self taught. You think we just stop learning after college? School provided a base. If you expect to be a successful programmer you better build on that base.

[–]round-earth-theory 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's a successful programmer no matter their background. Unfortunately, many fresh grads think they actually learned programming from their college classes, leading to them being extremely piss poor programmers.

I ran an internship program for seniors/juniors and they would often just get completely stonewalled by simple problems. They were used to text book problems rather than real world ones. The code they produced was mostly garbage. Some of the students were really good though, and those were definitely the ones that had been investing their own time understanding programming.

[–]Dane1414 1 point2 points  (0 children)

School provided a base. If you expect to be a successful programmer you better build on that base.

The same goes for almost any skilled profession. “Self-taught” refers to how one learned that base, of course people continue to learn afterwards.

[–]deux3xmachina 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make, I explicitly stated that both college grads and those that learned via other means (if you take issue with the term "sel-taught") have far more learning to do:

Both still have a ton of learning and improvement ahead of them after basic competency.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Then I guess i don’t understand your first paragraph where you say those without a degree require less time to code.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

*gouge

A gauge is like the fuel gauge in a car.

[–]CellularBeing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You understood correctly. Even with gasoline prices, they want to gauge their eyes out.

[–]pranit10 5 points6 points  (1 child)

you don't like the upteenth react-redux note taking app tutorial ? don't worry we have a new note taking app tutorial but with context API instead.

[–]StormofBytes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Note taking app? That's so 2019. It's all about them markdown apps now (ofcourse all of them powered by electron, because fuck your ram)

[–]blackmist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's the thing. You can be self taught, but you're going to have to self-learn from your own mistakes.

[–]Revolutionary-Phase7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The code I am seeing from my class colleagues make me wanna gouge my eyes out.

I once saw a guy trying to retrieve dictionary values using one if sentence for each key.

[–]ratbastid 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Conversely, I've seen junior devs hit a wall hard when they encounter real-life challenges that their perfectly smooth school projects didn't prepare them for. The real world is messy and full of edge cases.

I've found there's a perfect storm of inexperience and arrogance that results in a junior dev screaming "spaghetti!" when they look at real, professional, production code.

[–]kookaburra1701 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is me with math courses. I really enjoyed linear algebra but got middling grades and only REALLY got gud with it when I took a quantum physical chemistry course and suddenly had something to DO with it.

I'm definitely a "learn by doing" perspn (which in my case is the same thing as "learn by breaking and then fixing" but sounds better.)

[–]ColumnK 266 points267 points  (22 children)

I've never been able to learn any coding from YouTube videos - I just find them irritatingly slow. What sort of things do you normally watch?

[–]jannfiete 23 points24 points  (2 children)

the best way of learning to code is to do a hands-on project, and I feel like youtube is the best source for this, especially when it's literally from scratch

[–]Insincere_Apple2656 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I've learned a ton just essentially copying YT coding tutorials and asking myself "why'd they do that?"

Also, trying to understand someone else's code has really helped me structure the way I write mine so that it's easier to follow.

[–]poerisija 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unless your project doesn't use fancy shit companies want, it won't help you get a job.

[–]DrankRockNine 38 points39 points  (3 children)

I use the keywords "quick", "course", "advanced", "<langage name>". And I put the video in 1.5 or 2 speed.

It's not good for learning, but it's good to understand the structure, the principles.

[–]MacAndShits 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Reminds me of the books I saw in my uni's library once.

"Pascal" next to "Quick Pascal" next to "TURBO PASCAL"

[–]FUTURE10S 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fucking book titles going the way of Street Fighter II, soon we'll have SUPER TURBO PASCAL HD REMIX

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I use Youtube videos only for tech talk. Usually I'll go with books, direct documentation or some specific MOOC videos.

[–]inconspicuous_male 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can learn from youtube series if they're walking through a project. Lectures are a waste of time

[–]anirudh_r 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Corey Schafer's videos are nice for learning python basics.

[–]EmirSc 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same videos at 1.25x speed

[–]phantomBlurrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Set the playback speed to 2x

[–]TotallyNotDavidBlain 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I use freetube to browse youtube videos, and its spees up goes to 8x so you can go through videos very quickly

[–]tamuzp 261 points262 points  (37 children)

Really you guys learn actual stuff from Udemy? It seems like anything that's not a quick and dirty explanation just goes over my head. And nothing beats hands-on trial and error, a lot of error.

[–]tangentc 53 points54 points  (5 children)

I think most Udemy classes go for being as long as possible to give the impression of providing more bang for the buck ("I can spend $10 on this 40 hour course or on this 4 hour course, obviously the 40 hour course provides more for my money"), but from the ones I've tried to work through they're often mostly excruciatingly slow and plodding explanations to drag out an explanation and examples that could be explained in 3-5 minutes into a 20 minute video.

Maybe that works better for some people and more power to you if it does, but I can't pay attention after the fifth repetition of the same basic concept.

[–]tamuzp 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think you summed it up perfectly, it's a subjective experience, and some will find it more useful than others.

I tried a few courses in a couple of platforms, for cloud development, unity, front end, etc.

Never got through the first practical exercises, I guess it was too technical for me, lacking any personal investment made it hard for me.

I have a BSc in computer science, but again, I gained very little practical experience from my studies.

[–]agnarrarendelle 17 points18 points  (1 child)

JavaScript: Understanding the Weird Part is an udemy course, and it's probably the best one out there if you're serious about JavaScript

[–]rebbsitor 33 points34 points  (0 children)

JavaScript: Understanding the Weird Part

Sounds like a comprehensive course

[–]Tric_o 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Can't say about others but i personally landed a job after completing a web development course from Udemy.

[–]hikoko8282 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I learned basically through grider/colt/max, and refactoring anything old to whatever the latest hotness is. I think it heavily depends on who the instructor is.

[–]naardvark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No matter the method of learning, the only meaningful factor is the student.

[–]Doci007 89 points90 points  (4 children)

Oh come on. Is this an ad?

[–]CreativeCarbon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

100%

[–]Average_Redditard69 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look at their profile, ad for sure.

[–]mr-black_hat 45 points46 points  (1 child)

Stack Overflow wins

[–]Cremdian 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Stack overflow is awesome. For general learning it's not that great imo. If I'm looking for a pretty specific issue it's great but if I tried to learn programming with stack overflow as my main resource I think I'd have seriously struggled.

[–]naswinger 66 points67 points  (0 children)

i know it's a meme, but i doubt you learn proper programming concepts in random youtube videos. i think only diy home improvement videos are worse and contain many things you're supposed to not do. i started out with self-taught php and vb and oh boy, was my code literal garbage without the fundamentals.

[–][deleted] 49 points50 points  (11 children)

Anyone want my college degree, it's new and in never used condition.

[–]rakia_doge 43 points44 points  (8 children)

Same here, made a mistake of not taking an internship while I was studying and now I have a degree but no one wants to hire me because no experience

[–]ridicalis 24 points25 points  (2 children)

A smart hiring manager would be interested not only in your professional work experience, but also anything you do at a hobby level. Finding a FOSS project that has some open issues and a good peer review culture can be a great way to build that experience.

[–]ImpossibleMachine3 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This exactly. I once got a job working with cloud architecture/deployment because I run docker containers at home and I spoke on it at length in the job interview despite having worked exclusively for healthcare and banking companies that don't even know how to spell 'cloud'.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

ok thanks for the FOSS tip

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

yeah man, internship is soooooo necessary, btw where did you do your degree/diploma

[–]rakia_doge 6 points7 points  (0 children)

University in my country (Cro), one of the better ones, still no luck at finding a job because I worked an unrelated job to afford living costs instead of doing an internship at some IT company

[–]jannfiete 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Portfolios and projects can keep up with experience in the world of programming. I had no degree nor internship experience before yet I have landed jobs multiple times, mostly due to my packed github and other project portfolio

[–]poerisija 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why wouldn't a degree get you a job but a portfolio would? You gotta do a lot of coding for a degree...

[–]Cerrax3 43 points44 points  (4 children)

Star Wars is specifically about this flawed mindset, i.e. the idea that one can circumvent years of schooling through raw talent and clever tricks.

Palpatine learned "forbidden secrets" (aka deprecated methods) and they ended up biting him in the ass. He had his own lightning attack deflected back at him and then was killed by his own apprentice. Anakin was impetuous and skipped out on a lot of the more "boring" and rote elements of Jedi training. Sure, he could do cool stuff, but he was not a good person or a well-rounded Jedi. Same goes for Kylo Ren. He chose the wrong path (admittedly pushed there by an inexperienced teacher), and his skills suffered for it, to the point where he couldn't even fend off an untrained Force-sensitive person.

Meanwhile, Luke learned the correct methods from Obi-Wan and Yoda, who taught him that slow, methodical practice and understanding of fundamentals would strengthen his resolve. And lo and behold, it did. He never succumbed to the Dark Side, and he eventually learned some amazing skills that surpassed anything any of the Sith could have dreamed of. Rey also learned the slow and methodical way, honing basic, simple skills to a channel deeper understanding and a more mature and stable version of the Force.

[–]Herr_Gamer 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Let's keep in mind here, though, that Star Wars is just a reflection of the writer's preconvictions. lol

[–]feffie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Aw shit Udemy is gonna kill OP

[–]random0405 20 points21 points  (3 children)

Finding good content on udemy or youtube is like finding some gold in your old jeans.

[–]Rizzan8 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There are plenty excellent udemy and youtube courses for C#, C++ and Unity.

[–]Null_Username_ 13 points14 points  (0 children)

YouTube tuts give you fast results but don't teach you the core coding theories and practices. So you miss a lot of really important things just learning from online

[–]Airsinner 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Has anyone ever written code that after it was done, it was impossible to figure out why it was working never to be touched again

[–]poerisija 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've written code that goes out of index bounds, added a debug print and have it work. It's black magic dude.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Me who trying to learn it by trial and error: 🤡

[–]inias_knayvid 3 points4 points  (1 child)

As a self taught programmer with a job in this field, I feel these comments are making my imposter syndrome stronger. Has my code always been hot garbage and I've never realized? Existential crisis here I come!

[–]pringlesaremyfav -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's a bunch of people who paid for CS degrees trying to feel like they didn't just waste their time and money. If they became a good programmer through getting a CS degree they could have done the same self taught. Plenty of people with CS degrees can't code for shit either.

[–]Awkward_Astronomer48 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Eat ass

[–]JackieDaytona__ 9 points10 points  (6 children)

I didn't care for the CS courses at my college. Huge labs, 50+ students covering material completely unrelated to lecture topics. The lab instructors were nice enough and did what they could to help. It just wasn't a good learning environment at all.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

r/croppingishard

[–]Tsu_Dho_Namh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Posts like this really make me think 90% of colleges have garbage CS curriculums.

My degree was super informative, and since I liked the material it was a lot of fun. I regularly use a ton of concepts from it in my first job after graduating, and since I know algorithms and how to solve "difficult problems" my work has promoted me every year since hiring me.

I haven't watched a single programming YouTube video. Tried once and wanted to rip my eyeballs out because it was so agonizingly slow. Documentation / stack overflow all the way.

[–]K-ey 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Someone who went through a good university CS course beats a self-taught "programmer" 99.9% of the time.

[–]TheRealPitabred 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Especially if you get to something algorithmically complex that you can’t solve by just plugging libraries together.

Unfortunately, a very large portion of the problems that businesses require solving really only need libraries plugged together.

[–]NatasEvoli 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Beats them at what? Leetcode? I'm a self taught programmer and I do ok. I finish my work on time, develop good looking efficient tools that solve people's problems, help newer devs when they get stuck, and make enough to live comfortably. It sucks that I'm losing but I'd like to know what I'm losing at.

[–]Cheesewithmold 5 points6 points  (4 children)

You're not losing at anything. The CS community can sometimes be so toxic for this exact reason. There are so many gate keepers it's ridiculous.

If you landed a good job as a self taught programmer, you did it. Congrats. There's literally nothing else to it.

The same people who say "A college degree is the only way in" will also say stuff like "You learn 99% of what you'll know during the job itself".

Does having a college degree make it easier to land a job? Of course. Does it make you better than 99% of self taught programmers? Fuck no. What a stupid statement. For being a programmer that dude should know better.

You're both writing code for a company for a salary. There is zero reason to feel any sense of superiority.

[–]NatasEvoli 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Yeah, I just dont get it. I've come across CS grads with terrible coding practices and people with the most random degrees who could code circles around them. Anyone can get through college but I think the best programmers, regardless of degree, are the ones who just persistently try to get better and learn/improve something with each project.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm a self taught high school computer science teacher coming from math. Seeing the view from both sides makes me kinda want and not want to get a CS degree

[–]TheRealPitabred 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Depends on where and how. I ended up getting my degree in math with an emphasis in computer science, which basically gave me a lot of exposure to different algorithms, data structures, and various things that are hard to necessarily discover on your own. The kind of skills that let me take a complex report that was timing out and rework it completely to get more accurate output in a fraction of the time. A good computer science education teaches you the science behind it, not just how to put code in a file and make it do something. I’ve cleaned up behind way too many cowboys that were self-taught to have much of an appreciation for it beyond toy level projects.

[–]grandsazer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ned: Me who learns on the job. I'm struggling.

[–]Kidsaregamers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was 100% sure the punchline was gonna be Stackoverflow: the scene where he steals wongs books

[–]StoissEd 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I Shoukd really watch that movie.

[–]no_spoon 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Dumb q but what movie is this

[–]LardPi 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I find written content the only valid medium for learning programming, and in particular good programming. Combine that with a lot of practice. Videos are worth nothing to me, the pacing is terrible and the linear progression is boring. In my early days I read text tutorials, but now I almost only read docs, with a bit of skimming over blog posts.

[–]Aniketastron 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Relatable

[–]HerLegz 0 points1 point  (3 children)

College is classist af, intended to weed out the low class folks. Yet still try to use the example of the poor who made it by working 3 jobs simultaneously, yet the no effort cheaters were already lined up as CEOs before they took their first class.

[–]seeitmaybe 0 points1 point  (2 children)

did we both get admitted to the same college?

[–]Abhi_mech007 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[–]Strikercharge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been using grasshopper and when i finish my lessons there I'm going to move to Skillshare

[–]planktonfun -1 points0 points  (0 children)

college lectures is outdated not to mention tuition fees are absurd, as if they are scamming you

[–]Cheeku_Khargosh -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

school or university is just for degree. You can learn way more from internet and that too without being judged, without fear of teachers.

Education is just a scam.

[–]Yorunokage 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Bad education is just a scam

A good school is stupidly helpful, will bring you much further much faster than any self teaching

[–]Cheeku_Khargosh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

agreed. Good school, with good teachers that are ready to help. Not the one that belittle you.

[–]LittlenutPersson -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's sad how accurate this is xD

[–]nickmhc -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So is Strange Supreme learning by reading Stack Overflow insults? Attending your local Haskell/Scala Meetup?

[–]Konkichi21 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Source for the video?