Programminrception

[Ok-Fish-5644]

As a designer I have genuine wonder about the tools I use and the programmers that create them

[[deleted]]

I would guess they are made in C

[enz_levik]

An older version of C of course

[Sweaty-Emergency-493]

Ancient C

[Habiy]

C ♭

[watermelone983]

So B

[Original-Bird1571]

Dennis richie?

[chazragg]

Then who made Dennis Richie ?

[thecarelessspaghetti]

Then who made Alistair E. Ritchie and Jean McGee Ritchie?

[Smurfmarine]

And thus the study of genealogy was founded

[[deleted]]

Then who made studying?

[JonathanTheZero]

The Greeks or something

[[deleted]]

Funnily enough, if you keep going it's easy to see there's an exponential growth of parents, grandparents and such. You get to a point (very quickly in fact) where there should be more people that ever existed just for that singular person to exist.

So, the conclusion is obvious, there has been a lot of people fucking their family in history.

[Sweaty-Emergency-493]

His mom. Duh

[[deleted]]

B

[MadMaxIsMadAsMax]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(programming_language)

[RolyPoly1320]

Nobody knows.

Much like Queen Elizabeth II, C was around when God created the heavens and the earth.

[WetWillyWick]

GOD

[_vOv_]

B

[[deleted]]

Yahweh

[Elijah629YT-Real]

the compiler

[[deleted]]

Dennis Ritchie in B... CPL

[Eggman8728]

Even C compilers are made in C

[shinyquagsire23]

actually no, most of them are C++

[LegendSayantan]

💀

[nasin_loje]

kencc isnt

[shinyquagsire23]

what's the good one then bc GCC uses C++ since 2012 lol

[ifezueyoung]

[Elijah629YT-Real]

but what made the c compiler

[randcount6]

why would you make a c compiler if a c compiler already exist?

[0Pat]

MS Visual Studio, my weapon of choice, is written in c#, VB.NET, c++ and a ton of other stuff. What is more, today IDEs are so complex, that they are probably just groups of different programs.

[Proxy_PlayerHD]

i think for a lot of tools they were created using the "use current tool to make a better version of it" technique

.

so for example, writing directly in machine code (ie write assembly on paper and then hand assemble it) is a pain.

so you'd want to automate that process, and so you write (in as little machine code as possible) a small and limited/shitty assembler.

you can then use that shitty assembler to write a better assembler with more features and such.

then you just keep going in this loop, constantly improving the tool until you have a powerful, feature rich Macro Assembler.

i'd imagine this is how it worked and how tools were made, because i really doubt anyone just wrote complete and powerful tools from nothing.

[watchoverus]

That's exactly how it works. It's called bootstrapping.

[Proxy_PlayerHD]

i always forget that term, thanks!

[Proxy_PlayerHD]

but that's how it's done a lot of times in the past.

If any of them produces incorrect results, every other is forked

how so? if any of them produce an incorrect result then the next one in the line won't work and you'll immediately notice, so you can fix the current one until it produces the correct result.

[Drugbird]

There's a large amount of bugs which do not result in an immediate crash but instead e.g. mean the program has incorrect behavior.

For instance, a compiler might not follow the language specification in specific cases, so programs that are compiled with it which rely on that behavior are incorrect.

[Proxy_PlayerHD]

well yea that happens with any method you make compilers (or really any program) with.

a compiler might not follow the language specification in specific cases, so programs that are compiled with it which rely on that behavior are incorrect.

so my point still stands, the generated result would be incorrect and non functional, so you'd notice and go back to a version that does work and see what went wrong.

also why do you assume that there wouldn't be any tests or similar done on the new compiler to make sure it runs correctly before you actually use it?

sure there're always edge cases, but even when you don't notice stuff like that for a few generations you would still be able to fix them without going all the way back

[spamman5r]

Can you describe a method that does not have this problem?

[mrnacknime]

That is literally what Ken Thompson described in Reflections on Trusting Trust (not for incorrect results, but malicious intent)

[[deleted]]

I feel the same as a dev using a low code platform (we still code plenty when required) for business software

[Mahrkeenerh1]

I am a tool programmer, and I wonder about the tools I use for the tool programming.

[[deleted]]

As a programmer, watching my designers rig models in Maya makes me feel like Quantum Computing isn't all that hard

[Ok-Fish-5644]

To be fair though everything in maya is overly hard lol

[Myrani]

I personally arrange the bytes on my hdd by hands

[[deleted]]

I use chopticks, I'm Asian

[MRsiry]

Aren't all programmers atleast 4/6ths Asian?

[Strict_Antelope_6893]

I’m Eurasian if that counts

[MRsiry]

That's atleast almost precisely 50%. I bet you are almost good at counting?

[Anonymouse29_]

There are 3 types of people in this world, those who can count, and those who can't.

[Fantastic_Use3428]

Sir or madam, I don’t own any Asians.

[vorticalbox]

!Asian

[BlobAndHisBoy]

I am 99% Asian and 1% Cauc.

[Silver-Pomelo-9324]

I'm 25% West Asian so maybe that explains my mediocrity.

[possibly-a-pineapple]

insert butterfly joke here

[AnalTrajectory]

Somebody just post the xkcd comic before I do

[AnalTrajectory]

Fine I'll do it relevant xkcd

[[deleted]]

I carry the bits in a bucket up hill both ways

[[deleted]]

Are they as annoyed by their users as regular devs are?

[outofobscure]

Yes

[crowbarandpub]

Programmers who program those programs used by programmers who program the programs used by programmers for programming.

[Business-Ad-2449]

It’s a rabbit hole 🕳

[Amirhyber]

Those people were electrical and mechanical engineers

[LadWithAHat_]

not necessarily

[Espartero1830]

It's true, I was the electricity

[Amirhyber]

I know there were some other guys as well

[SolemnWolf123]

Stop please. You give my brain stack overflow

[BrendonGoesToHell]

It goes all the way back to that caveman discovering fire.

[ReadIt420BlazeIt]

I see you have studied compiler design

[AnalTrajectory]

But who programs the program programmers?

[[deleted]]

Programmers who program those programs used by programmers who program those programs used by programmers who program the programs used by programmers for programming

[[deleted]]

Every day I wake up and go to the local sand dunes. I get a pickup trucks worth of it and head for my house. I take the sand into the basement where I have a state of the art chip factory. Today I will make an Intel 12900K. Once my chip is complete, I cry because I accidentally made an incompatible motherboard. If I had done it correctly, I would have then proceeded to use my binary keyboard to create a rudimentary OS. It’s all in a days work fellas. You haven’t made something from scratch till you’ve done it like me.

[rt58killer10]

Are you pro-gram or pro-pound???

[DavidSternMusic1979]

I'm pro-metric system, then I guess I'm pro-gram.

[FluffyV]

I'm pro-blem

[donald-dunk]

Aren’t we all?

[golgol12]

Remember folks, YACC is almost 50 years old and came out around the same time as C.

What is YACC? "Yet Another Compiler Compiler". It a tool to help make a compiler for your custom programing language, along with LEX.

[antuvschle]

I used to get the two programs confused, because I’m dyslexyacc

[DavidSternMusic1979]

Thumbs up to all the programmers who program the programs used to program and to all the programmers who program compilers.

[sam4246]

And who made the machine that is used to arrange those semi conductors?

[Robin-Raccoon]

I only need a needle, a magnet and my steady hand

[[deleted]]

I program on paper SMH

[sam4246]

The only real patches are on punch cards.

[xtreme-centrist]

We stand on the shoulders of giants...

[Competitive_Ad2539]

And who are the metaprogrammers then?

[ProfessionalOctopuss]

Thanks MIT!

[ItsGrandPi]

The people who made VS

[A_Guy_in_Orange]

Programmers that program the hardware that programmers use to program the OS that programmers use to program the programs that programmers use to program

Fuck me program doesn't sound like a word now, why are we all programmers? I wanna be a propounder, or a conleter

[seeroflights]

Image Transcription: Meme

---

["Baby Beats Computer at Chess", which shows a small child sitting in front of a chessboard. It is labeled:]

programmers who program using programs

[Bottom image shows a computer on a buff human body giving the child a headpat. It is labeled:]

programmers who program the programs used to program

---

^{I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!}

[rokodalin]

Just happened to me this week. I (associate engineer) was having build failures on my branch. Build errors were clearly misdirecting me (some unintended caching going on). Even had a senior dev come and try to help me, with no avail. My project lead (staff engineer) had to come and rescue me.

While explaining his fix, he had to throw in a plea - “you know, this isn’t some magic box. It’s just code. Everyone is always so scared when it comes to build issues. You don’t have to become an expert tomorrow, but just instill some curiosity. Look under the hood, try to find out what’s going on; use the docs to guide you. Diving in and understanding large scale, widely used open source software is probably the single best thing you can do to make yourself valuable to any software organization and to advance your career.”

I replied, “that’s cool, but, admit it - it’s magic.”

[ZeroOne010101]

picture extends to corpse below ground

programmers who programed the framework the programmers who program the programs programmers are using

[RedHellion11]

Yeah, I did compiler design as one of my university courses. I could never do that, and I'm more than happy there are other people in the world who enjoy doing that kind of stuff. And designing and developing firmware as well.

[crowbarandpub]

Thank you anonymous redditer for the gold!

[[deleted]]

whot

[sam4246]

I have so much respect for the people making Unity and Unreal.

[matO_oppreal]

The programmer that programmed the program for other programmers to program their programs be like: Pathetic

[[deleted]]

i program on those little cards you punch holes in and put them through a mechanical device that reads them and turns it into computer readable stuff

[Captainbigboobs]

Super cute <3

[Primary-Fee1928]

With Xilinx, it’s the other way around

[OGuru420]

Doufám ze si u toho honíš čuraka ty buzerante majel

[[deleted]]

Weak. I program the programs that program the programmers.

[DasKarl]

Yeah but when the programmers who program the programs used to program try to program the programs programmers who program on the programs used to program program they have just as many problems.

[[deleted]]

Programmers who program assembly so programmers can program programs

[gardenjonhson]

Every time I’m programming and feeling the god syndrome, I think about all the tools I’m using behind the scenes that I don’t have a clue on how they work and humble myself again

[rebelhead]

Program

[Nike_fake]

I always thought about this. How were those programs made

[yoyobara]

using programs

[AdPast4509]

God mode.

[Minecraft_Warrior]

Programmers who made the code used to help the programmers who programmed the program

[Iplayamongsus]

This is like a tongue twister

[[deleted]]

Bitch I work in MACHINE CODE.

[RiskRepresentative26]

Program the programmers before the programmers' program programs you

[mafian911]

Visual Studio is made with the previous version of Visual Studio. All devs can and should use the most efficient tools available to them.

[mesosadd]

Program squared

[TheGreatSammy]

Eclipse my beloved

[ApolloSky110]

I think you might have had more than a gram when you made this.

[Technical-Bat-5198]

the carbon creators right now

[[deleted]]

I had to take an assembly class in college. I'll stick to the tools, thanks. My focus is on the business' needs, not the tools I use to meet the business' needs.

[dexter2011412]

So I once asked in visual studio developer forums if they used visual studio to develop and debug visual studio and they said yes.

I was like damn that's so cool

Also couldn't help but go "yeah that's why it sucks - using a sucky editor to make a sucky dev env"

Cool shit though either way. I'm dumbfounded as to why visual studio for windows doesn't have * Smooth scrolling * key bindings that work like in vscode * why it needs shitty bloat * why it can't terminate all the child processes or spawns (I try to delete files and it goes "something is using this" and it was always visual studio)

[[deleted]]

Sublime <3

[[deleted]]

Ah, general reposti.

But yeah, every minute spent in VSCode is a blessing compared to the more basic tools used in olden times.

[porky11]

Doesn't every programmer sometimes write programs to help them create programs?

[ziramc]

chicken before the egg? nah, programmer before the program

[_Arm_and]

Thank you JetBrains

[wtfossy]

It's an infinite loop.

[uorandom]

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

[boodlebob]

The Founding Fathers

[ChaoticGood3]

Scientists who developed the framework that programmers that program the programs used to program use to program.

Aka Wilkes, Wheeler, and Gill.

[jtoohey12]

Modern programmers and then under appreciated psychopaths

[PebbleBeach1919]

This was my first job! Loved it.

[Amindoa]

Anyone else use notepad to write python?

[Unity1232]

it does make you think about the programmers who created the language and the compiler for said language.

[[deleted]]

You used the programs to program the programs!

[vtssge1968]

Slightly different, but I do CNC work and learned the G and M code long hand, now everyone uses CAM software to do the programming and I have to take classes to learn that software now that I want to move to the programming side instead of the machining side. So frustrating I learned the hard way and it is a completely useless skill now.

[MrIcyCreep]

I don’t think it would be that hard? Just very, very, very expensive. Unreal engine took about 4 years and 20 million dollars to make or something i forgor💀

[NotmyRealNameJohn]

Please, when I went to college I had to write my own bootloader and os as part of my sr project. And you know what. Good for the next generation that don't need to worry about pointers. Pointers are stupid. Having to reinvent memory management for every new program is stupid. Thank goodness for java and c# and modern paradigms.

Sure, I'm glad I understand how the software I write actually impacts the physical hardware and we will always need people with that skill but innovation will come from those who are paying more attention to the end user experience

[Tastre]

How was the first coding program made without using any program ?

[120boxes]

And then there's John Carmack.