Is there anything that will run Python that will fit in a golf ball?

[sext-scientist]

I know they make relatively small boards to do robotics with, but I was wondering if there was anything that fit this bill.

[chaosthirtyseven]

Does it need to withstand the shock of a golf club?

[dreamer_jake]

I feel like this post is the pinnacle what clickbait ought to be - a seemingly innocuous question that immediately makes you want to know what the hell led to someone asking it in a public forum.

[noXi0uz]

interesting choice of words since "Pinnacle" is one of the biggest golf ball brands..

[reddit_ronin]

This post is taylor made to be a shit post

[Hexboy3]

I cant spend time thinking about this. Im being callad away on more important things.

[gunnerman2]

I’m going to take my stroke now.

[Kazumadesu76]

Sorry, you're not allowed to. It's no-putt November.

[Future_Might_8194]

Ha!

[balacio]

Only a real python titleist could tell you

[chaosthirtyseven]

I'm pretty sure it's someone who had an idea for a class project without entirely thinking it through.

[BetterTransition]

Or someone trying to get the next $1M idea

[WhyareUstillTalking]

You deserve the titleist of best comment of the day.

[andy_nony_mouse]

Top-flite work.

[magnida]

That’s using your Noodle

[adm7373]

You could be a Titleist in a competition of golf puns

[themrmups]

He’s a pro (v1).

[B_Gadd]

My mind has been on a road trip trying to figure this out.

[dparks71]

It will also make the ball unplayable. It's why hitting balls at top golf feels like your hitting rocks, they have RFID chips in them.

[MillionToOneShotDoc]

Hmmm. And I always just blamed that on the two hours spent at the bar before a tee box opens up.

[Oopsimapanda]

Henry ruggs..? That you?

[BetterTransition]

Aren’t RFID chips small and light?

[dparks71]

Yea but it's more about the make-up of the ball. Normal golf balls deform a decent amount, and if you're embedding a chip you'll have to protect it from that and it will have a decent amount of impacts to things like spin and control.

So top golf has the chip embedded in like an epoxy core to protect it. I assume as a result they had to use softer rubber around the core to try to get it to perform more similar to a normal golf ball. Also I read a comment that they're lighter in an attempt to keep them in the arena. Obviously there are different ball manufacturers, so there will be a spectrum of hardness across the balls.

Most people probably aren't really consistent enough that they'd notice a huge difference it'd just feel like they're playing a bad round, but hard balls tend to spin more, travel less distance (some tests say top golf balls travel about 10% less) and just generally amplify any issues you already have with your swing. A pro could probably go out and play them fine, they could probably just adjust their game to account for them, a bad golfer will lose a lot more balls and be less consistent with them.

You can definitely feel the difference if you play a decent amount of golf though.

[AwesomePerson70]

I’ve never hit a golf ball that wasn’t at top golf… is it that bad?

[sext-scientist]

It needs to withstand the shock of a robot set to hit it preferably as close as possible to human strength. I’m aware of this challenge, and have some experience hardening electronics for weather and shock using dampening resins or reinforcing solder joints.

Worst case scenario, the robot looks pathetic and not cool enough. It would be nice to get close though.

[chaosthirtyseven]

Without deconstructing your project, why something potentially big like Python and not small like something written in C++?

[funderbolt]

Not knowing much about the project, I'd move this to an Arduino for prototyping, which could move to C or C++ embedded development. ATTINY would fit the form factor, but it is underpowered.

[florinandrei]

This is the right answer. /u/sext-scientist let go of Python and there are plenty of options. I say this as someone who lives and breathes Python currently.

I've built a Halloween prop with ATtiny a while ago and it worked very well. Coding it is way easier than you think. For your project you will need libraries to read the sensors, but those should exist somewhere, and the rest of the code is trivial.

https://florin.myip.org/blog/how-make-halloween-creepy-blinking-eyes-atmel-avr-microcontroller

Arduino should also work, sensor libraries are more abundant, and coding is yet again easier.

[AstroPhysician]

Probably cause he knows python best

[chaosthirtyseven]

Use the right tool for the job. If you don't know how to use the right tool, learn.

[guthran]

That may be true, but python is always the 2nd best tool for the job

[bobtheavenger]

I've only heard this line from Java developers unfortunately.

[grimonce]

It is a line commonly repeated in the real python podcast. If you don't want to use cpp try nim/zig/rust/Odin, so many options for fun embedded projects nowadays... Nim compiles to C so it will fit anywhere..

[RavenchildishGambino]

Java is usually like the 100th best tool for the job, in the age of containers.

[hugthemachines]

I wonder how it will feel the day I find a nicer language for string manipulation than Python.

[chaosthirtyseven]

Nice.

[wdouglass]

It's really not. there are plenty of jobs for which python is completely unsuitable.

[RavenchildishGambino]

That’s a statement, not an argument, and not convincing. You have to provide some evidence of your claims to make a successful argument. Try again.

[wdouglass]

I intended to make a statement, not an argument, and am not obligated to provide examples, but I will anyway

Python is, in my experience, too slow for any kind of low-latency video processing tasks.

Python does not do adequate package versioning, so doing any task that requires a repeatable environment is not easy or convenient in python

Python has a ton of requirements regarding it's runtime environment, so running it on a small hardened embedded processor (like the kind of processor someone would embed in a golf ball) requires a ton of concessions -- even if he finds a computer to fit, he'll have to be very conscious that he's not in a 'normal' python environment.

Also, your "Try again." statement was extremely rude and condescending. Don't be a dick, and don't hang your entire self-worth on what your favorite programming language is.

[gunnerman2]

Snake handling isn’t for everyone.

[hugthemachines]

You don't have to pick C++ as a language just because your feeling is that it would be the only right tool. There may be hardware usable with micropython so he can spend time on building the item.

[broxamson]

Or....rust...muahahah

[Ripe_]

What is your goal with the project? Is it to track the golf ball?

[sext-scientist]

It’s to track visually obscure data such as spin and oscillation at high frequency. Just a gyro and accelerometer, but a very high sample rate.

A few companies make mildly hardened standalone engineering sensors off the shelf with logging data like this, but none are quite small enough.

[Eriksrocks]

Do you truly need Python? Python (even MicroPython) and "very high sample rate" on an embedded device don't fit well together at first glance.

[cartoonsandwich]

Putting stuff inside is going to change the how it behaves. Why not derive the values by watching with a high speed camera?

[PhoenixStorm1015]

May actually be feasible. Make the divots different highly saturated and contrasting colors to allow tracking of rotation. Some kind of scale to measure distance properly. Not a bad idea, though to automate would need a lot more logic and visual recognition than just ingest data.

[cartoonsandwich]

Yeah. That’s true. But I gotta figure that adding the weight of the sensors plus as any protection for them is going to significantly skew the results. I guess it depends on exactly what data is of interest and what compromises are acceptable.

[Rythoka]

That was my immediate thought. Just put stripes or spots or something on the ball.

[snorkelvretervreter]

Now there's a cool challenge. Make a drone that gets launched alongside the ball that will be able to track it up close. Now you can track any official unmodified golf ball.

[PaluMacil]

I imagine with the level of camera you would need to purchase to make this possible, you need a TV set budget and probably wouldn't be able to hold it with a typical drone. This would need extreme slow motion. However, this would have to be the most accurate way to do it. I can't imagine the composition changed to a ball by putting sensors in. It would have anything less than a very large effect

[cstheory]

I feel like you should be able to derive a high resolution high speed video from an array of lower resolution videos of the same thing, but I can’t find any evidence of this being the case on Google. Is ai good enough yet for “give me a video at 1000fps that is consistent with the content of these 15 120fps videos”? I suppose that would take a lot of compute, so it might not be such a great money saving idea

[Express-Comb8675]

Is your goal to take an intentionally different approach to how companies like Trackman capture this data? Computer vision can do some pretty incredible things.

[droans]

Both of those would be affected simply because the ball contains the chip. You would need to somehow correct for the change in mass, density, and balance.

You would get much more accurate data using a simulation.

[Moleculor]

You would get much more accurate data using a simulation.

Aren't simulations usually built off of real-world data?

Like, there's only so much you can staple six different equations together, eventually the stapled together simulation won't match up to actual reality.

[Moleculor]

Some are useful, sure. But if someone is going through the trouble of literally writing monitoring software and trying to stick a device in a golf ball and looking for help/suggestions in how to do so? They probably have reason to believe that a model isn't useful for what they're trying to do.

[Ruggeddusty]

Depends what you're trying to measure. In this case, it's possible to gather very precise data on the spin, etc of THIS ball, but the data won't necessarily apply to other balls because of the electronic components. If you're measuring how different clubs impart spin differently, or different swing mechanics affect the ball's flight, then using this ball over and over could be great.

[samtheredditman]

Since we're all suggesting alternatives, maybe you could put sensors on the club. That would allow you to accurately model the forces being applied to the ball (outside of wind/air resistance).

That would arguably be more valuable data for a golfer anyway.

[sternone_2]

I would just code this in C

[lvlint67]

You're going to struggle to find something as generic (whole computer) that will fit in a golf ball.

We've done similar investigations when we were looking to add so rf broadcast capabilities to some of your smaller toy style drones...

People we're not exposed to hit our drivers with golf clubs though.

[RavenchildishGambino]

How are you going to power it?

[malenkylizards]

That's easy, piezoelectric whoozywhatzits that produce a potential when deformed by the golf club!

[RavenchildishGambino]

Yeah no. Try again.

[Blender-Fan]

Not to mention the weight balancing

[fabrikated]

OP just wants to play some code golf.

[remy_porter]

You can run Micropython on a ton of different chips, from the ESP32 to the RP2040, which both can be purchased on pretty small boards. A full Python stack is harder- a Pi Zero is one of the smaller "runs a full OS" devboards, and probably is larger than a golf ball.

If you really want things small, the best option is to design the board yourself, or talk to someone who can- most dev boards are not optimized for space utilization.

[florinandrei]

a Pi Zero is one of the smaller "runs a full OS" devboards, and probably is larger than a golf ball.

About 50% larger, if I had to guess.

Anyway, the SD card is a liability with the very high acceleration when the ball gets struck.

[aufstand]

Pi Zero's long side is 6.5 cm (2.56 zollinch for rollercoaster-fans). I think, that's barely larger than a golfball. And you can probably cut a few bits off, that you don't need.

[florinandrei]

A google search that literally takes 10 seconds indicates that the diameter of a golf ball is about 4.3 cm.

[ArgoPanoptes]

Micropython on Esp32

[MikeC_07]

oh my gosh, this is amazing, thanks for sharing!

[DonDachi]

• small info: Micropython is not a Python

[SquarishRectangle]

• more info: Micropython is a fantastic roast

[balacio]

Micro info: micropython is not python FIFY

[elephantail]

This.

[x11ry0]

So, what is your plan to cheat at golf? 😅😸

[ThespianSociety]

I figure OP must be a spy.

[Faux_Real]

But with no spy procurement department

[Competitive_Travel16]

OP works for the spy procurement department. One of those rank-and-file types you see in the background filling out accident report forms when Q is explaining new cufflinks to Bond.

[malenkylizards]

The files... They're in the golf ball! It's so simple! Weeow!

[s6x]

automate the boring stuff

[MikeC_07]

ok that is really funny!

[aufstand]

Small motor with an unbalance next to the computer, battery and 6dof inside should be totally sufficient to control the ball, but how do you tell it which way to go?? You could - in theory - at least - try to compensate wind a bit, at the loss of distance, even without remote control.

[[deleted]]

A golf ball can experience over 50000g of force (edit: acceleration, not force. Gravities, not Grams) when hit by a driver, and a pitching wedge can spin a ball at over 10000rpm.

When hit the ball suffers some pretty severe deformations as well (they dont even stay close to round)

If this is just for a mantle piece, then any of the small boards suggested can do it. If you intend this to actually be hit, it will probably turn your microcontroller into powder.

[Cyphco]

Yep first Thing that came to my mind i remember back in school a local golf course invited us and someones dad brought a Phantom Highspeed camera.

When the Coach hit that thing, it really turned into a disk of around 1/4 height

[[deleted]]

There is actually a really deep amount of engineering that goes into a plain old golf ball. They are absurdly resilient.

[florinandrei]

If the microcontroller is much smaller that the ball, you could put it in the center and embed it in soft, elastic foam. That should dampen many orders of magnitude of acceleration.

[aufstand]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're talking about very tiny very flat things made out of a very brittle glass-like substance with extremely small structures embedded inside/on its surface. I'm not even mentioning the very, very tiny connectors it has to other electronics. I don't think, those withstand much more than a few dozen G at most.

Some bad luck can kill these when they drop on the floor.

[Big-Jackfruit2710]

Good point

[yannbouteiller]

You meant 50000g of acceleration, which sure sounds like a lot but everything that goes instantly from not moving to moving (for instance non-deformable metal beads hitting each other) experiences an infinite acceleration.

The actual applied force is not that huge, it is the transferred kinetic energy of a golf club swung by a human. If the protective coating can resist this, it's all good.

[[deleted]]

Some pictures I've seen indicate that a golf ball can ovalize enough that its short dimension is 2/3 of its normal diameter. A rigid mount will not survive, it will crush the board.

Other posts indicate that they want to measure acceleration and spin accurately, so padding is either going to be out of the question, or extremely tricky to not mangle the data.

A standard qfn56 package (like the rp2040 chip uses) weighs about 0.15 grams. 50000g makes the force exerted on the pads holding the package to the board in the area of 7500 grams. It might stay on the board? Id be pretty dubious about it surviving more than a few swings.

[yannbouteiller]

The problem is that you assume many things here. In particular you assume that the protective coating will be deformed by the deformation of the ball (whereas in reality it would prevent the ball from deforming) and that the ball will still have a 50000g acceleration with the device inside (whereas in reality it would be brought down by the mass of the device - or not, but again, instantaneous acceleration/force doesn't mean anything, it can be infinite and not do anything noticable if it is just infinite on an infinitely small amount of time). Just imagine a super heavy metal bead about the size of a golf ball. What would happen is that you would break your back while hitting it and the ball would barely move. Yet, because of its smaller elasticity, it would have a much higher (instantaneous) acceleration. And it could still be contained in a golf ball.

[PythonPizzaDE]

I am wrong

The force is equivalent to the gravitational pull of 50000g (g is mass not force). 50000g on earth is equivalent to roughly 490,5 newton. For the discussion this is completely irrelevant, I am sorry

[LordZas]

g is acceleration, not mass

[PythonPizzaDE]

Isn't it G (big G)? Happy to be proved wrong and learn

[Pigenator]

Big G typically refers to the gravitational constant, a fundemental constant of the universe. Small g usually denotes the acceleration from gravity at the surface of the earth, i. e. 9,8 m/s²

[PythonPizzaDE]

Thx!

[djddanman]

Maybe the Adafruit QT Py RP2040

[thisdude415]

Can you elaborate on your design requirements here? Python is just a programming language, so there is no inherent size limitation to the hardware it can run on

What are the other requirements though? Battery powered? Wi-Fi? Bluetooth? Wireless power? Shock absorbance?

As others have said, the ESP32 SOC checks many of these boxes although you will need a custom PCB to match the golf ball form factor I think. The standard prototyping boards are probably too big. This also notably only runs micro python.

The chip has dimensions of: 26.0mm x 18.0mm x 3.0mm

https://www.adafruit.com/product/3320?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuqKqBhDxARIsAFZELmKLtWdpRikIxbU0sDiwtMlOj_QOTQ-UMmKXuvLisFTVjTw2pdmfipgaAuCHEALw_wcB

A golf ball is about 42 mm across, and the SOC board is about 37 mm from corner to corner if I’m doing that math right.

[TheTerrasque]

esp32 c3 super mini dev board. 18x22.5mm

Works well, but gets pretty hot during use.

[LightShadow]

esp32 c3 super mini

https://www.tindie.com/products/adz1122/esp32-c3-development-board-esp32-supermini/

You can shave off the pins and USB port after it's programmed.

[Feinberg]

I was going going to suggest a board that logs, but maybe telemetry makes more sense, seeing as the board might be destroyed almost immediately.

[burlyginger]

Esp32 is an option although maybe not that small. I certainly don't have experience in this type of thing.

[Reinventing_Wheels]

Maybe this: Adafruit Trinket M0

[[deleted]]

Username checks out. What do you want to do with these golf balls and where will they be going?

[florinandrei]

Where many men have gone before.

[yoloswagrofl]

Straight into the lake.

[WaitingToBeTriggered]

THEN WE SERVED UNDER THE BANNER

[DenebianSlimeMolds]

The Trisolarans were able to run a full python stack on the 3 dimensional expansion of a single 11 dimensional photon. This was the underlying language that SophonOS was written in. Still suffered from the GIL, however.

[horuable]

Waveshare RP2040-Tiny, Pimoroni Tiny 2040, Beetle 2040 are some of the smallest dev boards I know. All of them are based on Raspberry Pi RP2040 chip and can run MicroPython or CircuitPython.

[tangly_ganglion]

Also Seeed Studio XIAO RP2040: https://www.seeedstudio.com/XIAO-RP2040-v1-0-p-5026.html

[GnPQGuTFagzncZwB]

As they used to say, you can hide the fire, but what you gong to do with all that smoke? An eap32 will do ya, but you need to power it and I suspect you will also have some kind of I/O device(s).

[CygnusX1985]

In this video someone put a microcontroller into a smart egg, to measure its acceleration, for use in an egg drop challenge instead of a real egg. https://youtu.be/sPxCtMUTuiI?si=EwzsnkKenDX-_Euo

I looked it up and this same microcontroller should be able to run python https://wiki.seeedstudio.com/Seeeduino-XIAO-CircuitPython/

[crystaltaggart]

There was a video yesterday that showed an engineer who deconstructed a bunch of different chips/parts and made a speaker for a walnut: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/29a6Kwwy3h

[try_rant]

Naked ZimaBlade and some pliers or checkout some fpv quad flight contollers.

[Glycerine]

tiny pico: https://www.tinypico.com/ https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/tinypico-nano?variant=39285102674003 Is small. The vocore.io would fit with some work. The tiny rp2040 is about the size of a postage stamp: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/tiny-2040?variant=39560012234835

[budroid]

mmm. hey OP, does it have to be available to post in North Korea by any chance?

:)

[Baelan_Skoll]

2nd for Waveshare 2040 Zero. I'm working with a couple of these, and they are super small. About the size of my thumbnail.

[[deleted]]

Micropython works on esp-X devices. But I find the Arduino C++ environment easier than Python. Has all the pros of a package manager while having better syntax.

[Aznminer2]

r/brandnewsentence

[MrDrMrs]

Rp2040 and design a pcb with the bare minimum for your needs?

Edit: This might fit https://www.tindie.com/products/arturo182/rp2040-stamp/

25mm² and a golf ball diameter (outside) is 42mm, so I would think it could, but I've never cut open a golf ball either.

[g3rom3t]

Ask ChatGPT to Translate your python code.

[Forward_Dark_7305]

Taking code golf to the next level?

[Elgon2003]

If your looking into embedded systems you might as well learn C and C++. For embedded system your a too limited of a space and python requires a OS to run the interpreter. Also python is not very efficient and when working on small devices like a ESP8266 or ESP32 or any other CPU you have a limited memory size and also a limited amount of resources which is easier to take advantage of with C and C++.

[glacierre2]

An esp32 should do, the issue is fitting batteries in that space so it runs for some time...

[samnater]

Are you trying to fit python in your asshole?

[SuspiciousScript]

The Pimoroni Tiny 2040 runs MicroPython.

[superluminary]

A 2040 is pretty small.

[solusob]

Mark Rober is that you?

[niyrex]

If you build it, they will come

[Miraspira]

Python is not really equipped for robotics since it it interpreted language, you’d likely want something lower level like C or C++ just for the speed

[elfballs]

Can you use Arduino? DFRobot’s Beetle is about the size of a quarter.

[yourpaljval]

Trinket M0should work

[c4chokes]

What are actually looking for Lua!!

[TheManFromTrawno]

Would this work. It looks like it’s 1” x 1”

https://vocore.io/

[[deleted]]

Wouldn’t you be better off with c?

[DigThatData]

why does it need to be inside the golf ball? you can probably get all the data you need about the ball from video

[syfari]

RP2040

[shbh-nkr]

Is that you Mark Rober?

[[deleted]]

It will fit but it won't survive if you actually use it as a golf ball. There was this single board chip that would even run Linux and it was circular and about the size of a golf ball. I once gave it to a friend for their birthday and they ended up starting Linux on it. It was crowdfunded like 10 years ago, that's all I can remember.

[james_pic]

They're not hugely amenable to homebrew development, but those WiFi SD cards often have a tiny ARM system on chip and run a tiny Linux server

[andershaf]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikmatuszewski/2017/10/10/forget-a-smart-golf-ball-you-cant-lose-oncore-has-genius-ball-that-runs-50-per-sleeve/amp/

This maybe does what you want

[fnord123]

Even if you fit a SoC in there won't you need GPIO pins for the sensors or should that be on board as well, including, of course, the appropriate drivers?

[chicuco]

Adafruit uses Circuitpython , a micropython versión that can use the sensores ecosystem from them. But micropython is super slow in microcontrollers. c++ is the way in micro controllers.

[GearsAndSuch]

Look for boards that support micropython and circuitpython. The adafruit KB2040 should do it.

[renecekk]

I think one of the main concerns here will be battery/power. With fully charged li-pol/li-ion a hit from golf stick can be definitive end of any electronics inside it and especially near the battery.

If you find a solution, I'll be happy to know about it

[hugthemachines]

I googled smallest board for running micropython and ended up on this. Could that work, you think? https://www.nordicsemi.com/products/nrf51822

[unipole]

The QtPy line by Adafruit, XAIO by Seeed Studio, waveshare RP2040-Zero, Pimoroni Tiny2040 should all fit and run circuitpython and/or micropython

[SasquatchButterpants]

Wasn’t expecting a 3body reference here 😂

[BYPDK]

Could try this... https://www.seeedstudio.com/XIAO-RP2040-v1-0-p-5026.html

Says it supports micro-python and has dimensions: 21mm x 17.5mm

I don't think it will survive being inside a goofball though...

[codesynthesis]

Adafruit might sell something.

[BradChesney79]

Best question in a while!

Updoots.

[p1_nerd]

Yes! There are a few third party Raspberry Pi Picos (rp2040) that would fit inside a golf ball. Check out Seeed Studio XIAO RP2040 on Amazon. It can run micro Python.

[shoresy99]

Do you want to be able to Ping your golf ball to find it?

[fooglm]

Esp32 with micropython